TOURIST TRAP-Fred Shrum lll

Step into the world of power, loyalty, and luck.

I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.

With family, canoli's and spins mean everything. Now you want to get mixed up in the family business. Introducing the Godfather at champagasino dot com. Test your luck in the shadowy world at the Godfather slot.

Someday I will call upon you to do a service for me.

Play the Godfather now at chumpacasino dot com.

Welcome to the family vdW group. Now perch is necessary if we were premitted by loss he terms and conditions eighteen plus.

It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win?

Like?

Are you at fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But if you want to hone in on those winning moves, check out Chumpback Casino at chumbacasino dot com. Choose some hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the most fun ever. At casino dot com.

Bill protest where I lost the terms conditions eighteen plus.

Host, you are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in True crime History and the

Good to talk to you tonight.

Good talking with you. I can't quite hear you, so if you have any control of your volume, if you could please anyway, thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. A very interesting story. Now tell us a little bit, because I don't think the intro really did justice to explaining very much. But this is quite a complex story. Tell us a little bit about who Joan, Michelle and Christy Rogers were, and hell, tell us a little bit about who these people were. Who was the mother,

Okay, Well, Joe Rogers was thirty six, She was the mother of the family. Christy was the second oldest, and I'm sorry, Michelle was the second oldest. She was about seventeen and Christy was fourteen. Their father was how he was thirty seven, and they were a family from Ohio. They ran in a three hundred acre dairy farm and basically they were just trying to break through the daily grind of that and take a.

Vacation like so many people do.

All they knew all their life was work, work, work, and they just wanted to get away from that. So they finally decided to go on this vacation. Then, how simply couldn't get away from the work of the farm. He had over eighty cows, he had to milk twice a day. He has you know, bakers, a negres of the cross. So they decided. He decided to let his life and daughters go on the trip without him because he didn't want them to miss it, just because he couldn't.

Now, So they so how did they did they fly to the Florida? How did they proceed to Florida? And what was the date that give us the date in the year that this faithful journey began?

Okay, so it was May nineteen eighty nine. They left Wilshire, Ohio, and their vehicle their car, they had an open Middle calif and they took the long trip from all all the way down to Florida, and it took them a couple of days to get there. Joe, No, the mother was thirty six and she was the driver.

And how old were the daughters.

Michelle was seventeen and Christy was fourteen.

Now their ultimate goal or ultimate destination was Tampa. That's where they were last the scene was in Tampa. But they did stop in Jacksonville, and they did stop for some famous landmarks and destinations that the tourists are very fond of going to tell us a little about some of their adventure where they actually did make it to in that short few days, starting on May twenty sixth and of course ending on June first.

Well, basically they just had women amount of time, so they wanted to get as much Florida in as they could, so they got it. The first stop was the Jacksonville Zoo and they stayed there and they looked at all the animals. They had never seen animals like that before, so they hung out there and then next day went to Silver Spring. Now, if anybody doesn't know, that's an attraction the famous for their glass bottom boats. They actually go on a boat and the bottom is the glass,

Now on Tampa Bay, when they moved pardon me, when they finally arrived in Tampa, Uh, they stayed at a day's inn, which is important to this, to the case and to the story. Now as far as anyone knows, what did what was their day like on their last day that anyone record a day of their lives? What would what was the events that they partake par took upon in on June first, that day in Tampa, well.

June first, they checked in about meantime and they went exploring. They went around you know, to see what was going on in Tampa. They were thinking about going to Bush Garden, possibly the Gulf Beaches, and the hotel itself looked over the waterline of Tampa Bay and they really wanted to see, you know, they wanted to think about going through the

Now, this is what's kind of odd for people reading this, and you do take great effort to sort of explain somewhat, But maybe I can ask you this question because this is one of the questions that came to me. These people worked on this dairy farm, but why there's no telephone contact. From May twenty sixth, we'll talk about this. I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but there was no

They with They did speak to How on the telephone as the trip progressed. The postcards and letters back to How and Michelle sent them to his boyfriend or to her boyfriend. Right, you know the one't room An articles right about that. But but the funny thing of that is, uh, you're absolutely right. How has got concerned? You know that? I think it was June first was the last time we talked to them, probably when they came into Tampa, Okay.

He was expecting them to call and and how many how many days would it be a drive for for those people who are you know, geographically challenged somewhat or don't know the area. How long would it take reasonably for people to drive from Tampa back to this Ohio.

It's about a two day drive.

It's about a two day drive.

So was he surprised that that she that Joe and his wife had not called from say a hotel after the say, the first night in between coming back from Tampa.

Was he he's quite concerned about that. He you know, he's wondered why he hadn't heard from them. But he just figured, oh, you know, they're just having fun and taking their time and maybe they didn't get a chance to call me. So he just figured, you know, they're having fun, and he didn't want to, you know, try to bother them. Sorry, just let it go.

I see, I see now, Uh tell us about the days in and what happened there too for the manager to call police? Why? How how it was that they the maid came into the room and what prompted the manager to call police after they had gone into that hotel room.

Well, the maid got concerned because they had the person had checked into that room a week before, and nothing looked like it had ever moved. All the objects in the room stayed in the same and didn't look like the cases were really unpacked and they just dusted around everything. And then after a week went by, the maid really got nervous about it because she had seen the news reports.

And what did they find, if anything, any clues at all? What did they find at the hotel room? What did police find there?

The police found they checked the records to see who it was. Joan Rogers was the person who checked in, right, and they so what they did was they thus the new Corpinio prints and they matched it at the finger prints of the bodies that were covered from the bay and the matches fit. There was Joan Rodgers they checked in the hotel room and John Rodgers that they had found floating in the bay. Right, So now they knew who it was and the victims were.

Now once they knew that they had a match that these three people. That was very interesting too that the maid made that connection was fortunate enough to see the newscast and then made that connection. Am I correct? That led that the police were you know, the manager was then anxious to call the police, and then from there the police did match up those fingers. French was there.

Well?

Number one thing what they did was they they had the dental records from the victims and the morgue, and they compared those to the Rogers family up in Ohio. They contacted their dentists and they matched those as well. So they had the fingerprint match and they had a dental match. Based on those two links, they decided they would go ahead and notify how that it was his family.

And where did they inevitably find the car?

Well, they figured that since the bodies are found in the water. Then obviously what they were going to do is try and search the closest going to start, the closest place where you could get onto the water to the hotel. So there was a lot talk about three and a half miles away from their hotel and they did find their car there.

And did that lead to any suspects that would be potentially docking a boat there?

Well, they found some clues that they didn't actually have a suspect as of yet.

They found it is Ryan here And I have a question for you. What do you do when you win?

Like?

Are you a fist pumper, a wooer, a handclapper, a high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But if you want to hone in on those winning moves, check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com choose some hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to redeem serious cash prize. There are new game releases weekly plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait start having the most fun ever at chumba casino dot com.

Necessary where I lost the terms conditions eighteen.

Plus some brochures and some stationary in the hotel or in the car.

Okay, what was the brochure? What was what was the brochure about? What was what was contained in that brochure that would lead police to I think they had some sort of tangible clue.

Well, one of the things was some days in stationary and it had Joe had written some handwritten directions on there of of how to get to the boat dock. And on those directions, you know, it's like turn right west on State Road sixty two and a half miles on the right side before the bridge. And then also next to it was a description blue with white So police thought that that was a description of the boat they needed to get on, a blue boat with white trim.

That's not much of a clue though, right, that's.

Not much of a clue because they started asking around when they found you know, they talked to people, and people the witnesses have told him that they found a dark suv in the parking lot of the hotel. It carried a blue boat with white trim on it. So they placed that vehicle in the day then parking lot when the Rogers were staying there. But that's really not much of a clue because in Florida there's a lot of dark SUVs and a lot of boats lily with white trim.

Wasn't there something about the handwriting itself though, that there was along with Jones writing, there was other writing that was not her handwriting.

That is correct. There was a brochure with a map of clear writer on it, and on that for sure, there was handwriting that was not the Rogers family handwriting. In a basically it told them, you know, how to get to the boat dock from their hotel, So that was a clue. But again they didn't know whose handwriting it was. They were pretty convinced that that person wouldn't know what happened, but they didn't know if that was

Now the police. It's interesting you see sometimes accomposite drawing. Of course they didn't have one in this particular case. Sometimes they would reach out to the media for assistance, and in this particular case they did, and there was sort of an unusual request for the media with a pretty successful result. If you're looking for the amount of callers that would call in tell us about what the police decided to share with the media and what was the response like.

Well, the police found out in the course of investigation that about two weeks prior to the murders there was a rape not very far away from that hotel, and the rapists raped the woman on his boat. So that was very interesting to them. That sounded kind of like a similarity. So they had they interviewed that person and they grew up a composite of the suspect and that seemed pretty similar to them, as you know, kind of

What was the response like to that clue.

So they had several hundred tips the very first week. The responsors overwhelming, but unfortunately they followed up on every single tip and you know, nothing came of it. They didn't have any fresh.

Clues, and how did they come to who made the connection between the Was it the police themselves that said, okay, but wait a minute, there was a rape a few miles away of a Canadian tourist. And again, what we haven't talked about, and I'm going to ask you about this. They couldn't have made that connection between the Canadian tourist unless there was something in terms of the mo or the signature of the killer. Now we've kind of skipped over this. The women were found in the water, but

Well, the bodies themselves were stripped below the waste and they were tied together and down with concrete blocks. So it was a police's destination that these women were raped. So that's a pretty strong connection to another rape. That rape didn't end in murder, but this one did, and they thought that that was a strong samiliarity between the two.

But the condition to know of the bodies were that the cinder block there was a rope around their neck and cinder blocks used to weigh them down. But they were also bound and gagged, or at least that was the conclusion that you said that the police had that they were bound and gagged, that the one of the victims had wrangled free of I guess the rope that was bound or whatever bound her hands, but their hands

Yes, they police believe that they were thrown overboard alive, one by one. So they had to see their mother and their daughter basically tortured and then thrown overboard. Knew they were going to be next and that is a horrifying thing if I've ever heard one.

Right.

Another thing that we went over which was surprising to me because he really depict how as this hard working farmer in Ohio, But there was a reason why he ends up being in the same group as almost everyone else. When a murder like this happens, the police immediately have to rule out suspects, and one of the more likely suspects in cases like this is is the husband. Now, even though he was not anywhere near the crime scene, he was still asked for a polygraph, so I'll ask

Well, like you said, a lot of times, you know, the spouse has been on my own suspect, and you're correct in this case, how it was they had to rule him out. And when you're talking about murdering your family, you know a lot of times there's some monetary game. So they checked out on whether had Hal had life insurance on the girls, and he did, but it really

Did they ask him why he withdrew the cash. What was his reason for withdrawing the cash.

Well, he told them that basically he was through without money for travel because he you know, he had talked to the police several times and nothing ever happened, and so he was going to go start his own search. And he initially he wanted what he wanted to do is hire a private pilot and fly down the interstate from Ohio to Ford. And since he could find them. The next day, they found out, you know, he found out that they were dead.

So there's nothing he could do. So police said, okay, well that's good, you know, that makes sense. But where's the money now?

So they thought they would trip him up. You know, where's the money now? So how calm We walked him over to his truck and opened up the glub box of his truck and there were six thousand dollars cash in the glub box, and then he pulled one thousand out of his pocket.

Well, that should have ended, that should have ended the questioning, but they still asked them, just for good measure, to ask them for a polygraph, just for a polygraph.

And then he agreed because he had nothing in the hide and he took the polygraph.

And he passed right.

So based on that they eliminated him as a suspect. From then on, they decided the killer was in Florida, and so they wanted to you know, cocas on Florida.

Now, tell our audience again, what was it exactly? Who was the person who was it exactly that made the connection, because it's not that it's not that easy a connection, Like you say, someone is raped and these three people end up in the water. So tell us who made that connection that there was some similarities between these these cases. Who was the person responsible for making the connection between the Canadian tourist that was raped and these three women and eventual suspect.

Well, there was a woman named Joey and Steffie in Tampa and she ever since she met her neighbor, she always had, you know, the bad feeling about him. And when the media re least the competite of the Canadian tourist rape suspect, she had pastored that on her refreerator because that the rape suspect looked just like her neighbor, right, and that really freaked her out. As a matter of fact,

So when police made the connection that they were looking for the same person as the suspect in the rape case, is if that's when she was even more confirmed of her suspicions.

Is that right?

That is correct? And she had actually notified police several times that she thought that this was the guy, but due to you the overwhelming number of tips, it just got locked in the shuffle. As a matter of fact, she even she was taking some night classes in one of her classmates with the Hillsborough County deputy and she told him the same thing, but nothing ever came of that either. So finally, uh, a connection came to her. Her neighbor who had, by the way, since moved away.

And what was her reaction to this, this neglect from the police, Well.

She actually a couple of weeks later, they bumped the reward up from five thousand to twenty five thousand, they started circulating the handwritten directions again. Well that really made her mad. So she basically called them up and said, what are you people doing? You know you have all this information, why haven't you followed up on it? And she basically said, do you know what you're doing?

Police?

You know, and and her and her neighbor they happened to know one of the local district attorneys. So they he wrote a letter on their behalf and then they called in again and they sent it all over and actually the person who answered the phone and took it to the the detective the sergeant himself, and said, hey, look this it's pretty similar to me. What do he thinks? So he said, yeah, it does look similar, but why don't you send out the deputy to pick up the original.

And what was Oba Chandler was? Was he familiar to the police.

Well, see, that was the thing. When they whooked him up in the computer system, it was like a jackpot. That guy had a rap.

Sheet him along ever since he was young.

He had everything you know, from drug charges, weapons charges, kidnapping. And that's when they found out some really interesting things about him.

He micro such as.

A dark suv, which is what they were looking for, right. He also had a bloom boat with white trim, that is what they were looking for. And he actually lived to and a half miles away from the place, the boat dock where the writers women were killed.

Right, So how did police proceed once they had this information.

Well, they found out where he lived in Port Orange, Florida, which is on the east coast of Florida, and they put him in the constant surveillance. They wired topped his phone, They had police officers, you know, following him everywhere he went, even had an FBI donated a It is.

Ryan here and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win?

Like?

Are you a fist pumper, a wooer, a handclapper, a high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But if you want to hone in on those winning moves, check out Chumbuck Casino. At chumbacasino dot com, choose from hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait start having the most fun ever at chumba casino dot.

Comill necessary detail where I lost the terms conditions eighteen plus.

Airplane fly over his house twenty four hours a day, pay up high And they really didn't have much evidence for murder, but they wanted to get this guy behind bar. So they decided they would, you know, put out a warrant to arrest him for the rape of the Canadian tourist. Right, But they did.

And what proceeded when he was questioned, Obviously they try to get a confession if they can. They tried to determine information. What was the interrogation, Like what did the police net from that interrogation?

Oh, initially they didn't really get anything from him because he knew the game. I mean, he just said he need fucked my attorneys. But he did ask him what am I being arrested for? And they said sexual assault? So he got a big grin on his face because he thought he was.

Getting away with the murder, right, And how did they proceed with this murder charge? He was he was charged for the rape.

He was held for the rape. Well, they built a case against him for the murder, I see. And what they did was they flew the Canadian tourists down so identify him. So first the Canadian tourists identified him to photographs up in Canada, and then they flew her down and she identified him in the lineup.

Is that that seems a little odd that procedure to show somebody. Was that that was all legitimate in terms of because it seems odd that they would Was it it just a lineup of photos though? Or was it photos of Ob Chandler?

They had showed him a bunch of different people's photos.

Okay, that's the guy.

So it was a positive identification. And and the rape victim was willing to testify and was it was going to be a good witness.

Yep. That was how they were starting to base the cake on that particular witness.

And now how did they sorry, how did they proceed with building the case for the three murders of the Rogers family.

Well, they started interviewing, you know, everybody they can think of, all of Chandler's relatives. And they found out that one of his daughters. Back in nineteen eighty nine, when the when the competite of the rape suspects first went out, right, he then visited his daughter in Ohio unexpectedly, and while he was there, he told her that he had raped some women. He also told her that he had murdered

Wow, was there any did did your investigation? Did you find any reason why the daughter obviously had this information, but why she decided to admit to it at that time? Was there some bad feeling between the father and the daughter or well?

Chandler had many different children, and you know, he didn't have a good relationship with most of them. And she was actually pretty appalled and shaken up by what he was, you know, but what he was told. But she didn't really know that he really did it. You know, I see no blowing smoke. But she kept it on her mind, and as soon as police contacted her, she definitely told him right away.

Did he indicate why the any motive whatsoever for the rape or or for the rape and murders of the Rogers family? Did he give any motive whatsoever to his daughter?

No, he did not. He did not say why he did it. He just told her that he did it.

Now he was being prosecuted in Florida. Now that's a death penalty state, Am I not correct?

That death tract?

Now?

How were how was the district attorney originally going to proceed with this? In his in his mind in the state's mind the disc Chandler qualify for the death penalty.

Well, the defense attorney was gonna his strategy was basically, yeah, he raped the Canadian tourists. Sure, a problem there, but he's gonna say, you know that you don't have any proof whatsoever that he did anything to the Rogers woman. And now it's his defense.

And and you know, they had an evidence.

His handwriting on the brochure. And the defense strategy was, yeah, he did give them.

Directions, I see, but you know he.

Saw them for five minutes right on the street and that was it.

Now, how did the prosecution proceed? They they had the testimony of the daughter. Am I not correct? They had they had the Canadian tourists testifying. Tell us what you know, how did they proceed with their case? What was their big strength? Well? Who were their star witnesses?

Well, they didn't really have any physical evidence per se, right, their detriment, but because of course, when someone's in the water for three days, they kind of washed everything away. Sure it's hard enough to you know, convict somebody when they killed someone in the clothes room. But what they did was they found Chandler's boat and they bought it. The police bought it for evidence, and they went over that boat from had to tell found out everything they

So okay, and.

So when the marine operator takes the phone call, they she has to take down the name of the boat and the name of the caller.

I see.

So each time that these phone calls came in, the name of the boat they found was the name of Tandler's boat, and the person who was calling in was either Oba or Obi, which is one of his nicknames. So this evidence put him on the water on the times of.

The murder and the time of the rape, I see.

And that was they're big piece of evidence that they were going to try to get him out right, And.

Of course the defense tries everything they can in the kitchen sink, but that was so they had a largely circumstantial case sort of the prior methodology we'll say, for the rape, so that it is in the jury's mind that this could be a certain possibility. And so the defense obviously wasn't successful with their defense. And what was the outcome of the trial itself.

Well, what happened was they put the Canadian tourist on the span and she gave her testimony, and you know, it was a horrible testimony, was very upsetting. And the problem was the for the defense anyway, was that the jury believed her right and they believed that Chandler. If Chandler could rap for her, certainly he could do what. You know, he was a kids of the.

Murder m hm.

So basically what they did was the prosecutor started talking to him about what were you doing on the water this night, you know, if you weren't ripping and killing his women, what were you doing. Well he just said he was out fishing. Well, why did you keep calling his wife at home because he said he had a

I see.

So they dismissed that it was a Do you believe that it was Oba Chandler that decided that he would take the stand in his own defense or was it his lawyers that advised him to take the stand in his own defense because maybe he didn't have anything to lose, and if he did want to explain any of these fanciful tales, he would have to get on the stand and utter them himself. What would you think was do you think it was a strategy or was it Why do you think he took the stand?

It was a strategy. During most of the trial, Chandler just sat around and acted like the trial was just a big news sense and now he's pretty much an outside observer to it. And the strategy for the defense was he was going to go on the stand and pretty much say, how dare you use me of these terrible things? But that's not what happened. When he got on the stand, he started asking the questions about.

The boat I see, and they used that to secure a condition.

So the jury he was not a convincing witness, and the witnesses for the prosecution were convincing to the jury. How long did it take for the jury to make their decision?

It took him just eighty minutes to render him European.

All three councils murder, right, So what was his sentence?

He was sentenced to death November fourth of nineteen ninety four.

And then Florida. If people don't know, Florida is one of those states that gets executions done in a timely fashion.

Isn't it not really.

Well compared to some states?

Welcome here in some states? That is correct. But you know, Chandler, did you know go through the pos sure had several appeals and basically all his field are denied.

Certainly twenty eleven, just three months ago he was put to death.

Was there much fanfare over his trial? Was there much coverage? Did he make any statements or his defense make any statements before the execution?

They there, it was a big thing down here. They asked him or if he had any final words, and he said no. How did show up for the execution?

He originally was not going to go, right, He considered that, you know, he's had.

Enough of his life with this guy. He didn't need to come and see him die. Well, his niece decided she wanted to go, so shudn't. He didn't want her to go by himself, so.

He decided to go to.

So how Watton died.

Was Did Hal attend the trial as well?

Yes? He did.

What was How's demeanor the trial? And you mentioned just a little bit about oba Chandler's behavior at trial? Well what was how? What was his demeanor like at trial? Was his reaction?

How is this? Pretty much quiet? And he didn't really say much. He just watched. And that was one of the reasons why some people thought he had something to do with the murder, because you're very unemotional and you're very robotic in the way he moved and talked and everything like that. But you know some you know, different people do different different ways, and the family that's the way he did it.

Right now, Oba Chandler. Did he have any after he was arrested? Of course, he went through the appeal process.

Was it.

Did he grant any interviews? Was he talking about his innocence? Was anything noteworthy at all after the trial in terms of any statements by Oba Chandler.

Well, he always made his innocence. He didn't, I mean, once he was sentenced and he was in prison, he didn't really granted in the interviews.

But what he did do.

On the day of his execution, you know, they asked him if he did, you know, had any last words. He said no, but he had left a note in his cell that they found after his execution that said, you're you are executing an innocent man.

Today. I see the end.

But in no one's mind was this man was not innocent?

He is not.

Nobody believed, I mean even his own family, you know, believed he did it.

So insummation, would you say this case a very interesting case in that if it weren't for some people, you know, to me, and maybe you can explain, uh, maybe you can disagree with this or agree with this. I'm not sure. But the maid and really crucial person in this story, the maid that saw the newscast that said to her manager, so that this thing happened fairly quickly. I mean, obviously, you know, a person's missing, and then there's three people

Would think that, you know, if if the maid hadn't spoken up, it probably just would have gone unoticed. It probably would have just checked her out from the hotel and Stefanie. She's very persistent, and you know they acted. That's creators. You know, why did it take you so long to fall upon this lead? And he's in the investigator, you know, Sergeant Moore, he said, I understand, but you know,

And the other connection too, was the Canadian tourist being raped and somebody making that connection. So that was that good? Was that good police work? It was?

And I can tell you one humor the type of thing about that. Once they want the police focused on Chandler, Sergeant Moore had a meeting with all the team and sat down and told them, Okay, this is our suspect. This we're going to go after. This is why we think it's him. And at the end of the meeting he asked his team if anybody had any questions. Well, they an office assistant made a connection that no one

You know. What's interesting too, is that I've seen a lot of composite drawings and they're not that close to the eventual perpetrator. So for somebody to again a good police work getting an artist and also the witness as well to say, you know, this is what this guy really looks like. You know, it's incredible really for that.

Yeah, the composition, but if you had seen the composite, it definitely definitely looks like him, I mean to the tea almost.

Yeah, it's incredible, incredibly all these forces were there to to help identify these three women, and and you did a good job of portraying these people as just three you know, just a family, a simple folk, you know, hard working dairy farmers here trying to get away, cram in a vacation of a lifetime in a few days and met their unfortunate fate with this uh, this killer was there any.

It's a funny thing because originally they weren't going to go Afford at all. Right, They had a couple of different places they were going to go, but then they decided, you know what, if we're going to spend all this money, why the where we actually want to go? And that's what they have settled on, Florida.

What do you surmise was the ruse used by oba Chandler to have these women come with him or what? How do you think he proceeded with these women to abduct him.

Oh, basically he's a you know, a very charming types of guy. I mean that's and then went I in line with the SBI profiles that they made of the killer is you know, a very charming person. And the Canadian tourists you know, testified of how he was with her and basically, you know, he earned their trust by you know, he met him and he didn't go off and right away he made plans to go out with the boat and like he went out with him a couple of times at least, you know, for a couple

What do you I'm not sure if you've done any of this of your interested in this sort of psychological profiling, but this guy's not your ordinary killer.

You know.

Obviously a sexual component here as well. Why do you think he picked these three women just because they were vulnerable. Obviously, there's children, there's there's a grown woman, there's you know, a child, a fourteen year old, and then well.

I think, you know, I think the one thing I think he liked the sexual thrill of it, because you know, he had raped other people. But also I think what he really liked was, you know, victimized him more than one person, because the Canadian tourist had a friend that was supposed to go with her on the U and she never went. And actually he got a bit agitated about that that the woman came by herself. So we think that, you know, having multiple victims is definitely something that he wanted to do.

That's very interesting. It's almost like a Ted Bundy in the End, where Ted Bundy had to rape a couple of women in one day. It's not so typical that a perpetrator will try to do something as daring as get control and take control and rape multiple people just because it's it's just not the safest thing to probably do with with compounding how many people could possibly you know, if you've got three people, it's just three times it's hard to control them.

Ah, But he's he's their fear of see he picked tourists, I believe because uh, he's definitely found out to be a tourists before he took them out right, he used that against them, and he the fact that they were on the water, and he made sure to do this at night, by the way, he killed them at nighttime. So he's there, you know, fear of they don't know where they are, Okay, they use the fear of the water.

Which one of the Rogers family, don or Michelle or Christy, which one had the fear of water?

Well, Joe had the most fear of water. She didn't like anything over her head, not even pointing. And Christy, like we said, the youngest. We believe that was the first time she ever stepped foot in a boat was in Sore Spring when she went to the glass bottom boat. And we think we shall only went on a boat once in her life.

You know, It's interesting to me somewhat is that they seemed to try to conquer their fear with the long boat ride or Joan tried to you know, overcome that, say, oh, I don't want to be wishy washy, let's go on this fantastic trip. And I'm afraid of water. But I'm looking at the bottom of the of the ocean here,

And you know, the bad part of it is, you know one of them had gotten her onmoose from the from the rope, right. That's that's proof that, yes, they were alive when they went over.

Yeah, yeah, I didn't think of that too. But it also is testament to their you know, undefeatable spirit as well. But they were right to the end trying to I mean, they couldn't have been that naive. They knew what was going on. They wanted to live, that's that's certain. So they were trying to escape. They were trying to get out from the predicament that they were in. I wanted to ask you Fred this this story Oba Chandler and

It's called tourist trap, Oba Tandler and the Murder of the Rogers Family.

I see, and this is featured. Yeah, and this is featured in Suspense Suspense magazine and it appears today, does it said?

You can go online and check it out right now, spencemagazine dot com.

Tell us what suspense magazine? Because I thought it very interesting? Tell us what suspense magazine sort of includes? Not only true crime stories like this, but what else does it include on this online magazine Suspense magazine.

The majority of the Spense magazine is fiction, and they have all kinds of you know, horror, suspense, mystery type of short stories in the magazine. I see, and you know they the editor wanted to do some true crime and so that's why you picked my oracle. We wanted to kind of focus on that.

For a while.

Now, what what made you what compelled you to or interested you to write this? To handle this story and then write this article for suspense magazine. What was it about this story? Is it that that compelled you to write about it?

Well, to me, it's a local story because I live in Tampa Bay. I the murders happened in Tampa Bay, So I lived in my own backyard. I mean the boat dock where they left off. I mean I drive past that all the time. I know exactly where the daven Hotel is, I know where Taylor's house is. So to me, it's just very chilling that this kind of thing could happened in my own town.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah, And uh for those that are that have listened to the program and will look up to your article and uh, suspense magazine, Suspense magazine, jeez, I have problems with that. What else are you? What else do you have planned in terms of true crime? Because that's what our audience is here, true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history. What exactly are you interested next in terms of or are you having any other plans for any other true crime stories?

Yes?

Actually, right now I'm researching a couple of different ones to see what I'm gonna write about next. I'd like to focus on Florida because there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens in Florida.

Absolutely, Weed Bundy, I mean, you know, and.

You know that this particular case, you know, I think it's about worse as bad as it gets, really.

Well, I mean it is. It's it's got some interesting dynamic. When you have a daughter and a mother and another sister being raped in front of each other and then thrown overboard alive, bound and gagged. That's very very unusual. And then given the who they are and who they meet up with, it's just it is a particularly horrifying crime and horrifying story. And we really do feel for Hell, you know, poor Hell, you know, And what can you say?

Yeah. And actually he has remarried since then. But interestingly the woman he married has the same name Joe. Actually it's Joan. Well, let me Marriad another person named Joan.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well, and at the funeral you talk about the funeral too, that was well attended. They had a lot of friends and family.

Yeah, the church was overflowing and the actually it was good then because they they made the TV for Stay Outside Chapel. They wouldn't let him come into an actual funeral, all right, And actually after the so they had the funeral and then they went for the for the burial. And after the burial, how I went back into the church and it Satlin himself for a long time, just there being quiet. Then he went and work on a cross.

Yeah.

I had to get back to work that. Yeah.

Incredible. So vacation gone horribly wrong. Wow. Well, I want to thank you very much Fred for this interview. It's been very very interesting. I want to tell people again that the article is called Tourist Trap, Oba Chandler and the Murder of the Rogers Family by Fred Schrum the Third. So thank you. I want to say thank you very much Fred for coming onto the program and for those people listening pardon me.

You can also check out fred Trum dot com.

Oh yes, thank you very much for that. And you also have a Facebook page as well, so if you want a friend Fred, you can get on his Facebook page and keep up on information as well. So there's a couple of ways of being in contact with you and keeping up on recent developments.

All right, Well, Dan, I appreciate the interview. Thank you very much.

Well, I want to thank you Fred, and for those listening, you've been listening to the program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history, and the authors have written about them, and we've been talking about the Tourist Trap, Oprah Chandler and the murder of the Rogers Family by Fred Schrom the third. Thank you very much, Fred, have a good evening, Good night,