THE SNOW KILLINGS-Marney Rich Keenan

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host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. Over thirteen months in nineteen seventy six seventy seven, four children were abducted in the Detroit suburbs, each of them held for days before their still warm bodies were dumped in the snow near public roadsides. The Oakland County child murders spawned panic across southeast Michigan, triggering the most extensive manhunt in US history. Yet after less than two years, the task force created to find the killer was shut down without

naming a suspect. The case went cold for more than thirty years until a chance discovery by one victim's family pointed to the son of a wealthy General Motors executive. Christopher Bryan Bush, a four time convicted pedophile, was freed

weeks before the fourth child disappeared. Veteran Detroit News reporter Marnie rich Keenan takes the reader inside the investigation of the still unsolved murders, seen through the eyes of the lead detective in the case and the family who cracked it open, revealing evidence of a decade's long cover up of malfeasance and obstruction that averted justice for the victims.

The book they were featuring the Seising is the Snow Killings Inside the Oakland County Killer Investigation, with my special guest, journalist and author, Marnie rich Keenan. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. Marnie rich Keenan, Thank you, Dan, thank you so much for joining me. This is an extraordinary book and an incredible case and incredibly disturbing. Let's get right to this. Give us your background and how you came to this story, when you

became involved. Give us the particulars.

which is just northwest of the city. I think it had about a million residents at the time, was in a you know, a state of full panic. And so that you know, Opening County has long been ranked among the top five or ten affluent counties in the nation. It was it was home to auto barns and wealthy entrepreneurs who had built their summer homes and estate cottages here.

So when these crimes occurred, families, you know, enjoyed nice neighborhoods and nationally ranked school and for something like this to happen was almost inconceivable, and in hindsight, many of us will agree that we were both naive and in denial. Really, I came to the case because I had interviewed Barry King over the years I was a columnist and interviewed

him on anniversaries of the crimes. Of course, Barry King was the father of the fourth victim, and one night in October he called me and my editor to his to his house and we were there for three hours and He started the conversation by saying, the story I'm about to tell you started in a big white house right across the street. And when he ended the interview, he said, you know my family and I think we know who killed. And that of course was the story

of Tech Coffee and Chris Bush. But maybe I should I should provide you with an introduction of the crimes.

in the area. It wasn't too long before uh police decided that these three murders of these three girls were not related to our four Oakland County child killing kids because they were able to solve them quite readily, and because they were older and their uh kidnappings in and man of death didn't fit the pattern that our ford did. Nonetheless, there was a total of seven kids who went missing to begin with, and that only heightened the fear.

in the nearby town of Southfield. And then this was followed by three days after Christmas, Jill Robinson, who was twelve years old, close to dinner time, had left her mom's house in Royal Oak She'd had a bit of a disagreement with her mom over making dinner. She left her mom's house in Royal Oaks. Her parents were divorced, and she jumped on her bike, presumably to ride to her father's house in nearby Birmingham, but she too disappeared.

Four days later, the day after Christmas, Jill's body was spotted by a passing motorist along I seventy five in the pull off lane. I guess you would call it near an exit and she had been shot in the face. Only a week later, as it turns out, on January tewod, the day after New Year's Day, Christine Helleck, who was ten years old, to her home in Berkeley at about three in the afternoon. She wanted to walk up to the nearby seven to eleven store to buy a teen

magazine for Christmas. She'd been given an album by one of her idols, Donnie and Marie Osmon, and his teen magazine that she was after had Donnie and Marie Osmon on the cover, and the clerk remembered you know, selling her a magazine, and Christine was seen walking home along time twelve mile road, but then she vanished. It seems hard to think of this, but Christine was gone the longest she was gone nineteen days. Grutable, Yeah, and you

know it's her mother. Deborah Jarvis said to me that the reason she thinks Christine was kept so long was because Christine was so delightful and so sweet to be around. In any event, Christine was gone nineteen days. And on January second, the day after New Year's Day, a mailman was delivering mail to in a residential area in nearby Franklin when he saw something blue in the snow bank,

and it turned out to be Christine's jacket. Of course, after Christine, law enforcement knew they had child serial killer on their hands. Christine's parents appealed to their captor on TV. They organized citizens searches on foot CEBE radio club members. I don't know if people were even know now with CB radios are, but they joined in the effort and the case was all over newspapers and TV. And that's Berts warned that if the maniac was not you know, apprehended,

he would surely strike again. And so now, as I said, police knew they had a serial killer on their hands.

So Robert Robertson, who was then commander of the Criminal Investigative Division of the Michigan State Police, had phoned several police chiefs from jurisdictions where you know, either the kids were snatched or where their bodies had been found, and he pulled them all together in an auditorium and that was meeting, the meeting where they uh uh became known as where they formed the Olkon County Child Killings Passforce.

day to day operations he was in charge of. What are some of the things that they did to try to search for these potential offenders.

seen any kid forced into a car. And as a result, everybody became The police thought the children must have gone with their captor willingly, they must have have recognized who it was. And as a result, you know, everybody became suspect. Members of the clergy, teachers, coaches, They went into schools and UH police officers had teachers quiz children to see if there was anything, you know, untoward going on in the kids' lives that they wouldn't necessarily bring up to

to their folks. Some kids were even fingerprinted. It was a massive, massive search. But as one and they and tips came in and they they started UH they I think they pulled the records on all the known UH sexual offenders at the time, and but every one of them had had alibis. And then a couple of months months passed after Christine and and and then Tim King on March sixteenth, nineteen seventy seven, Tim, who was the

youngest of marrying and Barry King's four children. He was eleven years old and he bowed thirty cents from his older sister Kathy to walk two blocks up to a nearby pharmacy at drugstore called the Hunter Maple Pharmacy to buy a candy bar. And you know, of course Tim had been wild schooled in stranger danger. Everybody knew what was going on and it but Tim, I should say, Tim had also been seeing his folks for a long

time to be able to stay home long. He was eleven, and Kathy really thought it would be fine for him to you know, walk the two blocks up to about a candy bar, so she loaned in the thirty cents. It was, I think a Wednesday night. His parents had gone out to dinner at a nearby restaurant which was actually kitty corner from where Tim would be abducted. Barry, who was a well respected attorney, and his wife Marian, were going to have a will signing with a client

couple and then have dinner. Tim's brother Chris, who had just turned sixteen, was babysitting and Mark his other brother was at a play practice at middle school and Kathy was getting ready to go to see Jerry Lewis do a stand up routine at a hotel. So Kathy told him, you know, she'd leave the front door locked for him to be able to return, and she told him to be very careful crossing Adams Road. And Tim left it about seven I think in Cathulus. Fifteen minutes later, Marian

and Marian were arrived home at nine pm. They were followed by Mark and Chris, and Tim was nowhere to be found. They called their friends and neighbors. Chris King told me a story about getting in the car with his guy friends' houses and scan backyards and by now was late and and said they drove up to one house and it was you know that it was pitch black, and he said, Mom, I'll just go up and knock on the door anyway, and she said no, you know,

she said it's no use. And Chris said, you know, from that moment on, it was horrible because you knew what was going on.

He was I think she said, he was between twenty five and thirty years old. And she said they were both standing by a blue AMC Gremlin with the white hockey stripe. Of course, thereafter the entire area, you know, was blanketed by posters, you know, showing up the police composite of the sketch of the suspect and the Gremlin, and uh, police thereafter, you know, just sought out every owner. I think they they they got a list of every owner of nearly every owner of a Gremlin in the state.

It was something like eight thousand owners. Uh. They ended up pulling over three thousand Gremlins, but it would take a long time to learn that the group blue Gremlin was was probably not the car they should be looking for. That myths became very hard to just fell. You know.

I should note that that that night that Chris or that Tim went missing, Chris couldn't sleep, and so his elder brother, who was sixteen, so he grabbed the baseball that and he walked up to the high her Maple Pharmacy parking lot and there were three or four cars barked in the lot, and one of them listening and see gremlin with he was, you know, with a white hockey strike, and he remembered looking in the car and

there was nothing. But when police came and interviewed the Kings, Chris had told them about how really the Gremlin couldn't be the suspects of Vehicke because he had seen it later that night, long after Tim had gone missing. But for whatever reason, the police discounted, you know, a sixteen year old version when you know, up against a person who had said she witnessed him.

to try and draw the killer out. One of them was to go on the radio and dropped some some huts and and and he also wrote a letter to the killer that was published in the newspaper and said you can stop this now, and if you're reading this, please write me a letter. And indeed somebody named Alan wrote him a letter. They never found found out who the letter write, who Alan actually was. He had the newspaper print of fault weather report is a means to

communicate with the killer the police. He was sure that uh something about nuts and squirrel road that the killer was was mining his victim squirrel searches for nuts, and later he put that out as a hint, and later police had a stakeout on Squirrel Road. It was. It was not very fruitful, but but interesting. Nonetheless, of course, you know, during this time, while while team was missing, the panic and fear was enormous. The the case became national news. It was. It was. It was on the

cover of People magazine. It was covered by Walter Cronkite. And while Tim was missing, the Oakland County prosecutor at the time, Brooks Patterson, had authorized law enforcement to pull over and search every vehicle on the streets over that weekend. Tim was kidnapped on Wednesday. So the following weekend, Friday and Saturday and Sunday night, between two and six am, every vehicle on the streets was pulled over. It was.

It was a huge effort. It was also unconstitutional. But the reasoning was because the kids were killed within an hour of being of their bodies being downe they were hoping to intercept the killer. They were driven by the urgency to possibly find King alive. I think I said that they pulled over over two thousand cars and one of the cops said, you know, no one complained.

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is Robertson's successor. You talk about at that time that there at that time there was a theory that was espoused by these three people. What was that theory? And regarding this Oakland County child killings?

a theory that said, basically, you don't have to worry, it's been taken care of. Uh. The the our theory is that the killer was likely from a wealthy family, and the wealthy family had arranged to have the killer institutionalized for life, and so long as no other children went missing, ah, and nobody else would ever have to

go through this again. It was put to rest. Some of the the the theories even went so far as to say that the families were aware that the killer had been institutionalized for life and rather than risk going through a public trial and having to you know, go through the agony of their you know, public reef beyond display or they were, they were okay with that and

willing to put it behind them it. You know, of course, decades later, it wasn't no until decades later, how closely that theory aligned with what actually happened.

the confluence of events. So you talk about the cast Corridor in Detroit, You talk about Oakland County being one of the most affluent communities in the country, but Detroit, because of the recession, turns into a very murderous and crime ridden place, doesn't it. So tell us a little bit about the things you discuss.

for for children the books to prevent it. You know, outside of a Juvenile Delinquency Act, which you know took care of runaways, there just weren't any protections for children from from predators or and or you know, actual exploitation. The Cast Corridor was a ten block area just northwest of the city. It was once densely populated with immigrant families who had moved north to work in the auto factories.

But as you said, the recession of the early seventies hit the city and the cast order even harder, and the area became a haven for the drug trades and sex workers and kids ran wild. It became a quote unquote predator's mecca, and a lot of child pornography took off there. Detective Williams, whom I'll get into later, but the lead detective in the case, spent three years unraveling the child prostitution and pornography rings that were operating really

under our noses. And it's amazing that he was able to identify several hundred men that they belonged to a very structured organization and it was broken up into you know, hidden sells, much like I would think the terrorists health we think of today. And the leaders of the cells had organized seconds and lieutenants and targeants, and and he was able to identify quite a few, you know, politicians and labor leaders and auto executives who were who were involved in sharing kids.

Island in La Michigan. So what did he tell authorities? What did he tell authorities about Francis D. Sheldon and North Fox Island?

was immensely wealthy. In nineteen seventy six he was worth several million dollars. But he led a double life, and turns out that he was the financier behind these child pornography rings. He was. He financed the the ring that we were talking about in the cast Corridor, and he also created his own child pornography ring on North Fox Island, as you said, he purchased it in nineteen fifty nine and he built it, built an airstrip and several cabins, and then he recruited young boys to come to his

so called nature camp. It was called Brother Paul's Children's Mission, and he had it incorporated and it was funded by our tax dollars, but instead it was a tax dodged and kids up the island were filmed, but and then the home. The film was then shipped the Amsterdam or it was developed and mass produced and then sent through

the mail. So in July of nineteen seventy six, Gerald Richards, who was Francis Sheldon's underling, he was a photographer and he was incorporated in the pit and the Brother Call Mission. In those legal papers. Gerald Richards was the director, but he was also a school teacher in import Huron and he got picked up on a charge for molesting a

young boy. And at that point he tipped out Francis Sheldon, and just merely by coincidence, Francis Sheldon, I think, called Gerald Richards wife at the time, and she informed Francis Sheldon that Gerald had been picked up by the police. And immediately Francis Sheldon emptied his condo in ann Arbor and and fled the country. And sadly, he was never extradited.

only worked on the case. Lee Williams was very good friends with Christine's grandfather, and Corey remembers the night Christine went missing because her frantic grandfather called called Lee Williams

frantic saying Christine is missing. Yeah, uh, you know. Corey remembers being afraid and talking with his brothers at night about what they would do to get away from the killers that they had to and it was interesting because his dad, you know, worked the case like mad and decades later, Corey would run across you know familiar names, which were the names of cops that his dad had worked with. In any event, Corey joined the army and became a US paratrooper, and when he came home, he

joined the police force in Lavonia. And Livonia is this city where Tim's king body has had been found. But in two thousand and four, Corey Williams was assigned to re examine a fifteen year old cold case. It was the homicide of the owner of the Detroit Cap Company. His name was Avier Giller, and he'd been shot dad in his dragway after arriving home from work in ninety eighty nine, and the killers stole killers, you know, cash he would every night he would bring home the day's earnings,

and the killers took off driving across the country. So Corey is reading these old records and he found that the killers and or the suspects at that time, had been arrested in Pennsylvania on their cross country trip, and he'd been arrested for armed robbery. His name was Richard Blowson. And Cory's reading these records and reading where Richard Lawson was trying to work out a plea deal, and he told these small town Pennsylvania cops that he had first

hand information about Michigan snow killings. Of course, you know the pencil they need. The detectives had no idea what he was talking about, but Williams knew instantly what he was talking about. The Open County child killings had also been called the snow killings because the killings had occurred in winter in their abductions had often occurred when they

had snowed. So now Williams is not only eager to solve the cold case of the cab killer, but he also is really anxious to find out what Richard Lawson knows about the snow killings. And since Richard Blossom was a prolific predator and new and awful lot he hung out that was his stopping ground was the Cast Corridor. Richard Lawson was able to tell Williams that he, along with others, were prostituting children in the Cast Corridor to quote unquote rich executives in the suburbs during the time

of the occ K case. So while investigating the Cast Corridor, Williams was able to secure a conviction and a lifetime sentence for Lawson, you know, for the murder of Xavier Diller, and he was also able to arrest and convict another pedophile who was Lawson's companion. His name was Ted Lamborghine, and he's now serving three consecutive life sentences, you know,

for raping boys in the cast Corridor. All along, you know, the King family had been closely following the Losson and Lambergine court proceedings because of what Detective Williams was learning about they Elton County child killings and their connection to the Cast Corridor, and they had been deeply impressed by

Detective Williams. And of course this now leads us to Kathy King calling Corey Williams in July of two thousand and seven because she said she had something of enormous importance that she wanted to talk to him about it. And this is what I consider to be kind of like the second providential part of the story, because what she had to tell him was a story that Bary King told me that night about about that big white

house across the streets from the King's. What she told Cory Williams was that Pat Coffee was a young boy who grew up across the Street in that big white house from the King's. He was a childhood friend of Tim King and was deeply affected by the murder of his childhood friends, so much so that he decided to

become a polygraph examiner. And in two thousand and six, Patrick Coffee was at a convention in Las Vegas and he was giving a presentation to to you know, to the National group of polygraph Examiners about a specialized way of conducting polygraphs. And in the audience was a man

named Larry Wasser. Larry was president of the Michigan Polygraphers Association at the time, and Larry Wasser was very impressed by Pat trick coffee presentation, and afterwards he went up to him and he said he asked him if he would be interested in coming to Detroit to give the same presentation, and Peraps said, well, of course, you know, you knew would be interested to know that. Uh, my career ambition was born out of the tragedy of my of my childhood friend who was murdered. And perhaps you

know the case. It was called the Olton County child killing case. Mm hm and Wasser, uh I think you know, Pat told me Wasser's jaw dropped and and he said, I know the case very well, and for whatever reason lawyers have said it wasn't excited, I did utterance. But for whatever reason, Wasser blurreted out, well, I guess I can tell you this now because the suspect is dead and so is the attorney. But I tested the suspect who confessed to killing your neighbor boy, and in doing so.

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very exciting admission. We now have this, as you say, this spontaneous utterance of something that he likely you know, didn't want to or didn't believe it was important to say. He just uttered it now when there was going to be confirmation for what he had just said. What was his response.

him and Pat. And but when when Kathy called Detective Williams and told him about this conversation, Detective Williams was able to get an investigative subpoena and forced Wasser to come to the Wayne County Prosecutor's office and uh excuse me, Wasser you know, fought the the uh sebpoena and he later negotiates a deal with the Wayne County Prosecutor's office, whereby he didn't give hints to what the name is because he claimed he could not remember the name in

exchange for not having to go under oath. And finally a name emerges, and that name is Christopher Brian Bush. Corey begins to investigate this name, and really an avalanche of evidence you know, came pouring down. Christopher Bush was the son of a prominent GM executive. He lived in Birmingham in Bloomfield village, which in a sprawling five bedroom home that was less than five milradius. Of all four victims.

His father, h Lee Bush was chief finance officer for General Motors, a huge position, and Christopher Bush was a four time convicted pedophile and he but he'd never seen the inside of a jail cell. And that's because h Lee Bush hired a defense attorney whose name was Jane Burgess to defend his son. And h Lee paid Jane Burgess handsomely and flew her around in the family's private airplane airplane to plea bargain his son off of all

these charges. So Detective Williams works alongside the Michigan State Police Detective Gary Gray, and together, you know, they amassed

an incredible amount of evidence against Chris Bush. Chris Bush's companion and fellow pedophile, Greg Green, told police they were Greg Green and Christopher Bush were arrested at the same time in January nineteen seventies them and when they were arrested, Greg Green told police in a separate interview that Christopher Bush had murdered Mark Stevens, Christopher Bush's nephew, told Detective Williams that and Christopher Bush, unfortunately was abusing his nephew,

and Christopher Bush's nephew told detective Williams that that his uncle Chris had taken him to the counter Maple pharmacy during the height of the killings, and he pointed to Tim King. I mean, what I mean to say is that the case was all over the papers, and so my nephew said, what is this And he took his nephew to the parking lot and said, you know, Tim King was standing right over there. He pointed to the area.

When Chris Bush was interrogated in Flint, he was asked where he'd liked to pick up boys, and Bush recited, in chronological order, the three sites of the first three victims abductions. And I think it's it's interesting to note that greg Green, who did not come from a family of means like Chris Bush did, was arrested for the same charge with the same kid at the exact same time as Gregory Green. I'm sorry, as as Chris Bush, and he received a life sentence and Chris Bush walked.

So money and power can get you a lot of things. One of Jose go ahead.

Vince Gunnelds that one. When Vince Gunnelds was interviewed and interrogated by by Corey Williams, Uh, Vince Gunnelds refused to say that he ever even knew Greg Green. So interestingly enough, Vince Gunnalds was found to be a mitochondrial DNA match too, or what they'd rather call He shared the same profile consistency DNA profile consistency see of excuse me a hair that was found on the sweater of Christine Mahellick. He

also failed a polygraph on the case. And to me, Vince he was a victim of Chris Bush City, he had no idea how how he could have been connected to the hair. He said, you know, maybe it was because I was in the car. I was in Chris Bush's car. Uh. And you know he also lied about knowing Greg Greg Green, which was which was very curious. I should say. The most damning evidence I think that

detectively inspired was in Chris Bush's suicide scene. He was yeah, yeah, and it was hostage that not many people believe that it was a suicide. But Chris Bush was found dead in his bedroom of his parents' home in November of nineteen seventy eight. Kim King was the last victim, so that would have been in March of seventy seven, so a little more than a year, and he was found dead from a hunting rifle wound that curiously enough, was

shot right between his eyes. He had a blood alcohol level of point forty one, which I understand his kne lethal and so it's it's really questionable as to how he could have managed to, you know, shoot himself with a hunting rifle. There was no blood fetter on the wall. And also a police found when they responded to the scene, the drawing of a young boy who was Yes, it was a sketch and the young boy was screaming in anguish and he resembled Mark steven It was taped to

the wall. There were ropes in the middle of the closet floor. There was a shotgun shell from a twelve gage shotgun that was left very conspicuously on the dresser. You know. Of course Williams wondered, he's looking at photos of all this, She's wondering where the ropes that are and could they possibly have been used to have found

Mark Stevens and Timothy King. It was a twelve gage shotgun that had been used to kill Joe Robinson, but of course by nineteen seventy eight they in nineteen seventy eight police had tossed all that evidence and the body was cremated days later. So in any event, Williams presented the entire case to Jessica Cooper, who had taken office. She was the open County prosecutor and she an office

in March of two thousand and nine. I'm sorry she'd taken office in January of two thousand and nine and eight. He first presented all the evidence to her, but she was nonplus. She was not moved at all, and she said come back when you have more evidence. I think it's important to remind you. You know that Corey Williams works in Wayne County and his boss is Wayne County Prosecutor Kim Worthy.

out the passport. She lied about critical evidence that was found in twenty twelve, and she repeatedly discounted the the Chris Bush lead. She she treated Bary King horribly and and you know, thereafter just dismissed the Bush lead and said that it was a non start.

authorities exactly. And so a part of this is you say, I'm not really you're not really sure how big a role politics plays in there, But also just the ego that you see many times between jurisdictions where Cooper accuses Worthy of tipping off of leaking information or Williams leaking information, yes, whereas both of them just want to involve Barry King, who's an attorney and his family who have done good work and they believe deserve not only to know what's

going on in this investigation and be apprized of it, but also that they that they're they deserve to know this information. And so has Cooper has issues with that, and also the King family said if we don't get the kind of answers that we're looking for, then we're going to go to the media. And so Williams warned Hooper that was the case. He didn't He wasn't threatening on behalf of them. He was just warning her, surprising her to the reality of the situation exactly.

for developing. You know, he mounted a years long foil lawsuit, which Jessica Cooper fought all the way to the Supreme Court. He he Bury King made it his mission in life

to seek justice for his son. He would he talked to anyone who would listen, senior men's clubs, press conferences, and he felt sure that the reason law enforcement would not talk to him about the Christopher Bush k is because they didn't want the public to know that they had covered up Chris Bush long ago to say, faith I, you know, there's a really important point to be made here, and it's one that Chris King impressed upon me long ago,

and that is that had that providential conversation never happened between Patrick Coffee, the the poligrapher who was also a family friend, and Larry Wasser. Had that conversation never occurred, we would not know about Christopher Bush. We wouldn't be talking about Christopher Bush. I wouldn't have written a book. None of this evidence would have ever come to light. And that's because it wasn't supposed to that. That's by design,

and that's kind of the premise of my book. They I I think I found evidence in it, and the book lays there that at the sight of the suicide scene, the Michigan State Police and members of the Oapen County Task Force who reported to the to the scene realized at that suicide scene that they had you know, they had already arrested Christopher Bush at the height of the panic, but then they had let him go and they had

released him. And only weeks after they released him, the fourth victim, Timothy King, was snatched and killed and Corey

Williams said as much too. He said he believed that the officers who arrived at that scene, and you know, a scene that really just screamed child killer, what with the drawing in the in the shotgunshell and the ropes, they had to have gone back and ran Bush's name against their records and discovered that he was a suspect that had been cleared by a polygraph and freed, you know,

only weeks before Kim King died. And so rather than expose the fact that they had had him and let him go, they decided to close the door on investigating you know, Bush's involvement when they had the chance.

credence the fact that he was the killer. And Spiker said, you know, we've got sure the task Force was going to say, you know, they'd solved it and closed the door on the case, but instead they they they shut it down.

That he explored all the links, all the connections, all the deviants and sex offenders that were connected and confronted them. And it's very fascinating to see him confront people, bluff them and just deal with them and express his true feelings about these people. Yes, yes, he's quite obsessed with this case.

him to retire. But at least he could be secure in the knowledge that he put away for life several horrible evils who to ruined the lives really of scores of untold kids, you know, who were whose whose wives were really ruined by by at the hands of these of these evil men, I mean Richard Blowston and and

Ted Lamborghin and and I think too, uh. In September of twenty eighteen, I was with them when he went to the Kings, and he was able to tell Barry and and Chris and Mark that indeed they've been right along that there was a cover up. To say face he had he had produced a three page from fourt that he compiled on the theory of his cover up. And he told them, you know, the bottom line was, you know, there were cops who covered their asses once

they found Bush dead. And of course and he also both he and he and kim Worthy, nobody did more to advance this case than than Wayne County, kim Worthy and and Detective Coy Williams, and but they weren't running the show. The Michigan State Police and the Open County prosecutors were. And he was able to and of course the Kings knew this. He was able to tell them that, you know, the most garious decision was the decision to keep the King family in the dark about everything.

was was voted out of office. Barry King passed away right before Thanksgiving this year, I was able to hand them the book, which was which was, which was wonderful for me because I you know, I hope, at least I know, I think I know that the book served

as a sense of vindication for him. Yes, I'm and and I'm I'm happy to say that since the book has been published, uh, more than a few new leads of surface and some victims, some very courageous victims, have come forward, so you know the truth, the truth matters. M hm.

a cat, and so Jill got a cat. And but Jill was really really almost wise beyond her years. From her mother's description, I would describe her as an old soul. She she not only read books, she read the newspapers. And she described one night saying prayers with Jill, and Jill broke down into tears and she said, Jill, you know it's madder, and she said, Jill said, I don't know why, but I've been having dreams and nightmares and I think, uh, I think I'm going to be killed.

I think I'm going to be shot. And you know, of course I think it was after that, now that I think of it, that Carol took Jill to someone she could talk to. But you know, for as for as much as she could try to console her child and say that's that's not going to happen, of course, I can you know, I can't imagine the grief after the fact. Yeah, you know, knowing that your daughter had a premonition.

But when they laid her down on the side of the highway, Jill at the time was wearing her backpack, the backpack she had been wearing when she disappeared, and it was thought that when they laid her down, perhaps the pressure of the backpack on her back and on her lungs made or expressed a hush of air, and perhaps to the killer they thought, oh, she's breathing, she's still breathing, she's alive, and then got the shotgun to shoot her in the face. But we don't know.

records say that he passed away. I believe it was in nineteen ninety six. But he was never held to account. He was He sent letters to some of the kids that that he had groomed, letters of apology. You know, he fronted a lot of his favorite a lot of his favorites. He funded their college educations, and so he sent letters of explanation to at least one of them that I know, saying that he was sorry that an emergency had come up and he had to take a

long trip. But you know, these people groom their victims so much so that they believe they have a real relationship with them, relationship akin to log and that that young man that I spoke of in CHARLDI boy ended up taking his life because of it. So and the other interesting thing too is and I won't go on about this, but so many people say when when talking about about the child pornography rings, and people like Francis Sheldon,

how could this have happened? You know it we're so we're so appalled at at the horror of children being subjected to such things. And I, you know, I have to say, I think our own sense of denial is to be blamed. This was happening underneath our noses. And we have only to look at the Catholic Church or you know, Jerry Sandusky to know that many of us turn to blind eye because it was too abhorreant to be believed. But it goes on, and it goes on

still into this day. It's called sexual trafficking. And you know, some people have said that Francis Sheldon was rather that Jeffrey Epstein is the modern day equivalent of Francis Sheldon, because you know, they're both on private island.

I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking about the snow killings inside the Oakland County Child killer investigation. Has been fascinating. Is there a website or a Facebook page that people might take a look more information about this, Yeah, tell us about that.