THE NEW MENENDEZ DEFENDERS-Robert Rand

days of the me Too and men Too era. Investigative journalists and author Robert Rand's twenty eighteen book The Menendez Murders provided the primary source material for NBC series plug streaming on Amazon YouTube and Google Play. The NBC series was one hundred and eighty degree flip from the general perception that the brothers were just greedy, rich kids who killed Bozzie and Harriet on a quiet Sunday night in Beverly Hills. There was little Internet or social media when

the brothers went on trial in nineteen ninety three. Earlier this year, the current explosion of passionate Menendez advocates caught the attention of The New York Times with an article the New Menendez Defenders. Young people are making impassioned arguments for the release of Lyle and Eric Menendez. Why Now. On April TEWOD twenty twenty one, ABC's twenty twenty aired a two hour special about the international movement of new

Menendez supporters. Robert Rand continues to actively repost on the case. Some of the research included in his book The Menendez Murders could become significant new evidence when the brothers file an appeal. New evidence has surfaced, leading to an appeal court filing later this year and a possible third trial for Lyle and Eric Menendez. The program this evening is the New Menendez Defenders, the international movement of supporters who want Lyle and Eric set free, with my special guest,

journalist and author Robert Rand. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for this interview.

last fall were kind of frivolous. There were a lot of young women that were lip syncing to the Britney Spears song I'm in Love with the Criminal, and they were cutting in video of Eric and Viiol Menendez when they were eighteen and twenty one at their first court appearance in March of nineteen ninety. Today, by the way,

they are fifty three and fifty. But after the first few weeks of seeing some of those initial videos, I was following the posts on TikTok and Instagram, and I noticed that everything took a turn at some point in November twenty twenty and the videos started becoming more serious. People were starting to post about the issues. They were getting involved in the specific details of the case, a lot of minutia, and one of the ways that people can learn about the Menanda's case in twenty twenty is

court TV. The old Court TV was rebooted a couple of years ago, and in June of twenty twenty, Court TV posted the entire six month long Menendez trial streaming on their website, and so you can actually watch every moment of the trial, including the evidence hearings, on Court TV. And so people were watching the court TV stream, they were also watching documentaries. And as I saw this movement start to grow, I started picking up a lot of

followers on social media. I started interacting with people who were not just in the States, but were all over the world. And there is a group of people that have become thousands of accounts on social media and people all over the world that they want to see the Menenda's brothers have their case review, They would like to see them be granted a new trial, and they would like to see them be released from state prison after thirty one years in custody.

ran their first story about Hartu and Mentu stories. And so I was following social media during the NBC series, and I was surprised. I was expecting to see a lot of the nineteen nineties haters come out of the woodwork. The people that you know, branded them greedy rich kids.

You know, they were following the stories that were being you know, it was really the way the mainstream media was presenting the case as a pair of greedy rich kids, and so it was interesting to see that there was there was a new younger generation that wasn't even born during the first trial that had a new take on the story. And one of the things that I found it interesting about that was that people were re examining this case in light of the changes that we've had

in society since nineteen ninety three. And I believe that the Menndez brothers trial health today, or if they were granted the new trial, there would be a completely different outcome. The resolution of this case should have been manslaughter, not murder, which still would have sent them to prison for twenty two years, and now they've been in jail for thirty one years.

Several of the jurors said, once they knew that information, well, let.

And in a final death blow to the defense in the closing days of the second trial, he ruled that the defense would not be allowed to argue in perfect self defense, which had been the heart of their case, and the heart of their closing arguments in the first trial. So the brothers were convicted by a jury in the second trial that heard a completely different set of evidence from the jurors in the first trial. In the first trial, half of the jurors there were two juries, one for

each brother. Half of the jurors voted for manslaughter. In the second trial, jurors heard a different set of evidence. They voted for a first degree murder conviction in March nineteen ninety six. And following that conviction there was the phase in which the jurors had two choices, either to sentence the brothers to life without the role or sentence

them to the gas chamber in California. And so in the pedalty phase, the defense was allowed to put out all of those witnesses in the family history that have been the heart of their main case in the first menendous trial. And after the penalty phase was over and jurors voted for life without the role, I interviewed a number of the jurors and several of them told me if they had heard that evidence about the family history in the guild phase, they would not have voted for first degree murder.

of shocked and asked a few more questions. And when he heard the information, ten year old Andy Cano wanted to run and tell his mother, and Eric Menendez stopped him and said, no, you can't ever tell anybody about this, and he made Andy's Eric made Andy square on a pinky promise that he would never say anything to anybody about the molestation that was going on in Menanza's family,

and the two cousins had a very close relationship. And in March of twenty eighteen, when I was on the deadline for my Menenda's book, The Menendez Murders, I was visiting the brother's aunt Marchakano at her home in Florida, and she allowed me to go through some papers, some boxes of papers of her son. Andy Cano, tragically passed away in two thousand and three from an accidental overdose of sleeping bills. He was very traumatized by the whole

experience of seeing his cousin. He was very close to go through this trial, testifying in both trials, and Andy Cano was going through some troubles of his own, and so in March or twenty eighteen, March Cano pulled down some boxes from the attic of her house, and within fifteen minutes after I began going through Andy Cano's I found a letter that Eric Menendez had written to Andy Cano in December of nineteen eighty eight, nine months before

the murders, in which Eric Menendez was complaining about the ongoing abuse by his father. And Eric Menendez was seventeen years old.

of audio taped interviews that I've conduct. I've covered this case since August twenty first, nineteen eighty nine, less than twelve hours after the Menendez murders in Beverly Hills, and

by audiotape. Interviews begin with Eric and Lyle Menendez in October of nineteen eighty nine, two months after the murders, five months before they were arrested, and the brothers were not suspect publicly, I had no reason to be suspicious to them, and they spent we spent three days talking together, and they told me how much they'd loved their parents

and how close knit the family was. And so I'm now going through these audio tapes, and I never had the time because I was actively involved in the coverage of the trial. I never had the time to transcribe things, and so I had a lot of interviews that I had recorded. For example, I might have a nineteen nineties audio set forty five minutes on each side with maybe six or eight different people of that tape, and I had the names of the people on the tape, but

I didn't have the content transcribed. What I have found in the last year is information from friends of Lyle Menendez who knew about the molestation that was going on in the Menenda's family four or five months before the murders, and those are witnesses information that never appeared in either trial.

brothers were not arrested until March of nineteen ninety. So I was working on this biography of Jose Menendez, and as I said, the brothers were not suspects publicly, I had no reason to be suspicious to them. So I have known mart Cano since September of nineteen eighty nine, and about ten or twelve years ago, she made a cryptic comment to me in which she said, after my mother passes away, I'm going to reveal some information to you.

And fast forward to the spring of twenty eighteen when Marchicano sat down with me one day and told me that her mother had been sexually molesting Jose Menendez, her brother, between the ages of about four and seven years old. And this was shocking information to me, again something that had never come into either trial. And right around that same time, I was able to confirm with Kitty Menendez's sister that Kit Menendez had been sexually molested by an

older family member when she was a little girl. So this was These were two significant pieces of information I've learned through research that about one third of abuse victims grow up and abuse children when when they are adults. Of course, that means you know, two thirds do not. But this was new information that had never come in to eat a trial. And I think what the most important one line summary I can tell people about Menenda's case is this is a story of intergenerational sexual abuse

and mental illness. And the way people approach the Menenda's case, journalists that are covering it is they try to take this you know, square peg and put it in a round hole and say, you know, and try to try to present it as a tradition true crime story. And this is not a traditional true crime story. The Menendaz the real Menendez family saga is this family background and what happened in this family that had trouble going back generations,

including the brother's grandmother who molested Jose Menendez. She was grew up in a household in a small town in Cuba called Artemista, with five older brothers and a couple uncles, and she was sexually molested when she was a little girl. So this is a typical situation that I've learned about in my research about the abuse and molestation where the abuse jumps from generation to generation.

do you have any issue with that ruling? And do you think anyone else will if there's a potential third trial.

Judelan Smith could be a book in itself. Doctor Lezill was the therapist that Eric Menendez met in the fall of nineteen eighty eight when both of the Menanda's brothers were involved in some burglaries in Calabasa's suburb of Los Angeles, and Eric Menendez was arrested and had a case that was in juvenile court in La County, and as part of the resolution of that case now court judge ordered that he undergo an evaluation by a therapist, and Kiddy

Menendez has actually seen two different therapists on her own at that time, and one of them referred her to doctor Jeromosil and Beverly Hills psychologist. And oddly, doctor Roseil specialty was sexual therapy for couples, but he was just hired by the Menendez family to do an evaluation of Eric and so then and then Eric did have some additional therapy sessions with doctor Roziel after initially meeting him in the spring of nineteen eighty nine. And that's information

that has never come out actually in any meeting. So doctor rose so in pass forward to So the murders are August of nineteen eighty nine, and I spent three days talking to Eric and Loo Menendez on the weekend of October twentieth, nineteen eighty nine, and this was always interesting to me. On Halloween eight nine, about eleven days after I met with the brothers, Eric Menendez called doctor Rozil, the only therapist he had never known, and said that he was very troubled and that he needed to meet

with him. And I'm Halloween. Eric Menendez confessed to doctor Rozield that the Menanda's brothers were responsible for killing their parents. Doctor Rozil, you know, within a few minutes, said Eric, you need to call your brother and I want him to come to the office right away. And it was Halloween. Lyle Menendez was at the Menenda's mansion passing out candy to kids with his girlfriend and he raced over to doctor Roziel's office and he was very upset when he

found out brother had confessed to doctor Roziel. And the brothers met with doctor Roziel for about an hour, and Lyle Menendas became frustrated and grabbed Eric and said, I don't want to continue talking to him. Let's leave, and doctor Roziel followed the brothers out into the hallway and

at the elevator. Doctor rosial testified during the first Menendez trial that Lyle Menendez turned Doctor rozial was trying to get the brothers to come back and continue the therapy session, and Lyl Menne said, nope, I'm out of here, and according to doctor Roziale's testimony, Lyle Manendez turned to him and shook his hand and said good luck, Doctor Roseiel, and then the brothers left, and in his testimony, doctor roseieal claimed that he interpreted that handshake in that phrase

good luck, doctor Roziel as a threat from lyle Manettes. Normally, you have a privilege with a therapist in California like every other state in which you know, anything that you

discussed with your therapist is privileged and confidential. But there is an exception in California called the pterosoft rule, which is if you threaten your therapist, or for example, if you tell your therapist, I'm going to go kill my girlfriend tomorrow, the therapist is obligated to break the privilege and contact law enforcement in that specific situation, or in the situation of if you threaten your therapist, the therapist is allowed to break the confidentiality and tell people around

him in order to protect them, in order to keep them safe. And so doctor Ozel's story is that he was threatened by Lyle Menandez and that he had to tell his wife, his mistress, He had a whole circle

of people that he told about the brother's confession. And then the brothers continued having therapy sessions with doctor Ozel, and in the subsequent sessions that took place in November of nineteen eighty nine, the power balance and the relationship kind of shifted, and doctor Ozeal kind of felt like he was in control of things, and according to accusations the defense made during the first Menendez trial, doctor Ozel was blackmailing the Menandos brothers, and the evidence of that,

according to the family and the defense, is that he told the brothers that he was going to schedule therapy sessions for them five days a week, one session for each brother and according to the defense evidence, the brothers never went to any of those therapy sessions, but he was billing the family in Doctor Roziel, according to the brothers and the family made it clear that I don't care if you ever show up for these therapy sessions.

I'm billing your family. And so the family members started getting these large bills eight thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars, twelve thousand dollars, and they were asking the brothers what's going on, and the brothers said, no, Aunt Mark said, these therapy sessions are important. We want to continue seeing doctor Oziel. So that's one of a series of strange

facts in doctor Roziel's background. And then in December of nineteen eighty nine, in another twist in this case that you couldn't make up if you were writing a fiction novel or a movie, the Menenda's brothers had contacted a high profile criminal defense attorney the name of Gerald Chaloff in Los Angeles. Joe Chaliff represented the Hillside strangler in

one of LA's numerous high profile cases. And Gerald Chaliff and doctor Rozel had a meeting one afternoon in which they decided that they were going to record an audio tape of a therapy session with the Menanda's brothers. And I'm going to put air quotes around recession because Gerald Chaliff and doctor Rozel met for an hour and kind of went over basically kind of outlined the script of what was going to happen in this recording, and then

Gerald Chaloff left the office. Doctor Rozel turned on the tape recorder and he recorded a one hour audio tape that included the Menanda's brothers admitted they were responsible for killing their parents, and that tape would normally have been

privileged under California's therapy laws. But this was an issue that delayed the trial for three years between the arrest in March of ninety and the trial that began in July of ninety three, and the issue of the privilege went all the way to the California Supreme Court, and the California Supreme Court ruled that the tape could be allowed as evidence because of what doctor rozeal claimed was a threat that's been made by the Menanda's brothers. But

it would have been a really interesting case. It kind of would have been the Emperor's new close if the if the Supreme Court had ruled against allowing that cape as evidence, the Menenda's defense would have been, you say, we killed our parents, prove it.

from the therapy room to the waiting room. And I interviewed doctor Rozil in late nineteen ninety and early nineteen ninety one for a very long article I wrote for the playboyd magazine that came out in March of ninety one, and one of the first When doctor Rozilla agreed to do an interview with me, the first thing I said to him was, I want to come over to your office with a couple of friends, and I want to do a sound check, and I want to find out

if you can hear anything from the therapy room, which was way down at the end of the long hallway and the waiting room. And he immediately said yes. And I knew at that moment I didn't really have to do that test because I knew she was lying. I

knew she made up that story. But I went ahead and went over to the office with two friends and we spent an hour, you know, trying to do you know, various versions, you know, with the door closed, the door opened a crack, you know, with different people in the waiting room, and we couldn't hear a thing, and so

I realized. My conclusion was that doctor Rozild Gothip with his girlfriends, and I believe he was trying to save his career, and the story that he came up with, or they came up with, you know, I'm still not sure of the exact and details. It's still murphy, but I believe the story that they came up with was that she was going to say that she overhearthed the confession.

And then in an even stranger twist, doctor Rozel me moves Judelon Smith, his mistress, into his house with his wife and his two young daughters who were eight and ten years old, and he is basically trying to keep the lid on Judelan Smith because their relationship was going sour, and so she was threatening to go to the police and tell the police that the Menanda's brothers killed the parents, and doctor Jerome Zil has an audiotape with their confession,

and doctor Rozel was married to a therapist and yet his wife allowed, you know, Judelan Smith to, you know, move into their home and things kept spitting out of control for several months. And so, while according to the defense, doctor Rozel is blackmailing the Menendez brothers, he has his own drama, going out at home with his girlfriend, living

in the house with his wife two young daughters. And finally, doctor Rozelle and his wife Lauel kickedju laund Smith out of their home the first week in March of nineteen ninety and a couple days later she went to the La County DA's office and the Beverly Hills Police and said Eric and Lyle Menendez killed their parents, and doctor jerom Oziel has an audio tape in a safety box of their confession, and that's how the brothers were arrested

because of doctor Rozel's mistress revealing this information. And again, these are twists that you just can't imagine making up if you're writing a fictional murder story.

hard evidence to make an arrest. And if I can interject, one factoid here, a very important factoid about the Menanda's case. The mainstream media, from the moment the brothers were arrested through both of their trials, kept repeating this information that they were greedy, rich kids that were in a hurry

to inherit their parents' fourteen million dollar estate. And the reality was that in August in nineteen ninety two, the La County DA's office went to a grand jury and presented evidence of murder for financial gain, and the grand

jury did not return an indictment on those charges. So, in spite of not having an indictment on murder for financial gain, the prosecution, the l County DA's office as a dozen people, the two public relations and their job is to have been on these high profile cases and in my opinion, poisoning the potential jury pool. And so in spite of not having an indictment, they kept pushing

this greedy rich kids, greedy rich kids. And that was You know, if you went up to anybody on the street in nineteen ninety three, at the time of the first trial and said who are the Menendez brothers, they would probably reply, oh, there's greedy rich kids that killed their parents.

family abuse, would have voted differently. But also was there that much pressure from the media that even the jurors believed that these people if they didn't vote the right way, if they didn't judge the right way, these people would be sent free.

trial voted for manslaughter. For some reason, the general public, because of being confused by stories in the mainstream media, the general public thought those jurors voting for manslaughter wanted to let the brothers walk out of jail and be acquitted, and nobody on either juror wanted to acquit the brothers. A manslaughter conviction would have sent the brothers to jail for twenty two years eleven years on each count, and so that was one major point of confusion in the

public's interpretation of the case. Nobody wanted to let the brothers out of jail, but the manslaughter jurors were, you know, really took a beating on talk radio in Los Angeles after the first trial. People were outraged. They were going on talk radio and screaming, what's wrong with those stupid jurors. The brothers admitted they killed their parents, why couldn't they

convict them of murder? And there was a radio station in LA KFI radio a show called John and Ken host a long time popular show in LA, hosts by a couple of conservative talk show hosts, and they were almost daily bashing the Menendez brothers and would have a segment about the case between five and six pm. It just happened to be the time of day when the jurors were driving home from the trial, and a lot of people in LA listened to this radio talk show.

And in fact, in the spring of nineteen ninety four, after the first trial, the Menendaz family was out of money, and Leslie Abrams said, the lead attorney with the blonde, curly hair, that many people were familiar with, was trying to get court appointed. She eventually was court appointed at one hundred and twenty five dollars an hour, and she talked about that she was going to start raising money for a Menendez defense fund. John Cosco on KFI Radio

in LA. They came on one day and said, we're going to have a fundraiser for the La County DA's office and the title of our fundraiser is Fried the Menendi And they actually staged an event and had their live radio show the three or four thousand people that are parking downtown in LA, in which people were making contributions to the La County DA's office against so many details.

brothers case, unfortunately for them. And this goes back to in the late eighties, there was a case called the mcmuntain Preschool trial, a sexual molestation case that was a very high profile media case in Los Angeles, which you know, was portrayed by the DA's offices that a family that owned the preschool had been molesting children for years, and the media grabbed out of the story, very big story in LA. And that case ended with the acquittal of

all the defendants, So there's big loss number one. Then we had the Rodney King beating trial, the famous videotape of the beating of Rodney King by LAPD officers, and four LAPD officers went on trial, and that trial ended with an acquittal of all four officers, and that verdict set off riot in LA that went on for ten days and killed dozens of people and resulted in millions of dollars of damage to businesses in southern California. And then and then comes along a couple of years after

the Rodney King trial comes the first Nomendo's case. It ends with neither jury could reach a verdict, so it ends with two mistrials. The public is outrage. And then in June of nineteen ninety four, we have the O. J. Simpson murders, the murder of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, and the OJ Simpson trial took place in nineteen ninety five, and the OJ verdict was on October third, nineteen ninety five, and the second Menendez trial had the misfortune of starting

the day after the OJ verdict. So at this point in the La County DA's office, they were desperate for a win. They were going to do whatever it took to convict the Menenda's brothers. And so it's really kind of a series of it was. It was just bad timing that they followed all of these glosses and the DA's office was so focused that they were going to

convict the Menenda's brothers. And as you mentioned, when the Menenda's brothers had their last appeal in the in front of the Ninth Circuit in two thousand and five, and Justice Alex Kazinski actually made a statement during their appeal hearing in which he said he believed there had been collusion between the La County DA's office and the trial

judge Stanley Weisberg to convict the Menendez brothers. And there's actually an audio tape you can you can search and find on the internet and hear that, you know, actually hear the hearing. But in spite of making that statement, Justice Kazinski voted against the appeal. But it's a very interesting statement that you made.

They could also make a separate filing requesting clemency from the governor of California. I'm gonna take a while, guests and say Uh, it's probably that's that's probably pretty unlikely that that would ever happen. I would refer people to the situation with Leslie van Houten, one of the Manson family members who actually has been granted a release, parole and a release three or four times over the last

five years by the California Parole Board. And each time that the Parole Board said she could be released, Governor Jerry Brown blocked her release the first time, and Gavin Newsom has blocked her release two additional times. And and so Jerry Brown and Gavin Newsom, you know, traditionally liberal governors, politically liberal people, and they've watched her release. And Leslie van Houghton is seventy years old. She was twenty years old,

and she was involved in the Manson murders. And my friend Linda Deutsch, the famous ap trial correspondent, wrote, I wrote a really powerful off at a few years ago that appeared in the La Times that people can search and read it. And Linda Deutsch actually has been in contact with Leslie van Houghton over the last ten years. And Linda Deutsch's appoint YEW was with it. You know, Leslie van Houton should be released.

And the answer is probably not, because she was a member of the notorious Manson family and people, and no governor of California, regardless of their politics, he's probably ever going to release the member of the Manson family, and so the Menendouz brothers. That's why filing for a partner, filing for a clemency is probably a real long shot.

So the third avenue and what they are likely to do is they will file what's called a habeas corpus petition, and that is going to the appeal court and saying there is new evidence that we have since the trials that we'd like the appeal court to consider. And also you know that they have a major legal issue, which is that they were not allowed to present all of their evidence of being abused in the second trial where they were convicted. And there are two other factors in California.

In twenty fifteen, California passed new youth offender laws that were based on new medical research that set of brain is not fully developed until the age of twenty five. California, any defendant who was under twenty five at the time of their crime is allowed to apply for a review of their case based on those laws. But there's one exception to that twenty fifteen law, and that is if you were sentenced to life without parole, you're not eligible to apply for that review. And to me, that makes

no sense at all. Either everybody under twenty five gets to apply for a review, or you know, what's the point of the law. And then there's another California law that was passing, i think twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen, dealing with if you were not allowed to present evidence of abuse at your trial, that you have another avenue

to ask for a review of your case. But what I believe what's going to happen is that the brothers will file a habeas corpus petition based on new evidence, some of which I had in my books, some of which I've discovered in left ear and reporting, and also the legal issues that the tag were not allowed to put on their full defense in their second trial where they were convicted of first degree murder.

that they can What is the goal? Is it a second degree murder conviction or is it the manslaughter even though you say that manslaughter is an average of twenty to twenty five years. What is the the real, I guess achievable goal for them?

they were consuming in the mainstream media. The general public thought that Menanda's defense was we were sexually molested, we were abused, therefore we get a free pass to kill our parents. That was not the legal defense. The legal defense was that we were in fear for our lives after there were a series of confrontations the brothers testified about in the days leading up for the murders, and the brothers claimed that they went to buy guns because

they thought their parents were going to kill them. Here's another interesting little factory. Kitty Menendez had two rifles in her closet with ammunition. And there was an interesting statement that Jill Lancey Wilmanandez's lead defense attorney, made in her closing argument in which she said the brothers on the night that the brothers killed their parents, they read the signals,

and they read the signals wrong. Because it's really easy for us, you know, looking at it from a logical perspective and from you know, a normal mind, to say, wait a minute, this doesn't make any sense. You know, how could they have thought that their parents were going to kill them? But the research I've done into abuse survivors and the trauma that they experienced. And again this is based on detailed testimony from sixty five teachers, coaches,

families and friends. You know, it gives you a completely different picture of the brothers. The number one question people ask me is, they say they were eighteen twenty one years old, why didn't they just walk out the front door if things were so bad at home? And the answer to that question is the therapy experts have explained to me that the emotional maturity of the Nanda's brothers somewhere between eight and ten years old. The parents had

made them very contendent on them. They would use to the parents used to do their homework, and it didn't take teachers long to figure out that the homework was always perfect, and they'd take a test in school and fail. The parents would tell them who they could be friends with, it who they could date. They controlled every aspect of their lives down to the tiniest detail. And here's another bizarre factoid. Well, they and Kitty Menendez had bugged both

Eric and lam Menendez's bedrooms. They had microphones and taping equipment and they were taking all of their phone calls. Got to ask, you know what normal parent, you know put hidden recording equipment in their kids' bedroom so they can record all their phone calls. So this was a strange family.

a monster, but what about their mother? Why did they kill their mother? Because we all assumed that all mothers are loving and nurturing and caring, and the reality is, unfortunately that's not true. And another key line in Leslie Abramson's closing argument for Eric Menendez, she said Jose and Kitty Menendez ran boot camp Beverly Hills, and Kitty Menendez was one of the guards, not one of the prisoners.

And in the brother's testimony in which they described this series of confrontations in the days leading up to the murders, the brothers testified that they found out for the first time that Kitty Menendez told them that she knew about the abuse all along and that she hadn't done any thing to protect them. And by the way, there are some of these family members that the majority of the family members testified for the defense, and that is not typical of a murder case where the family members are

supporting the defendants. And there were two cousins that lived with the family over several different summers. One of them her name was Diane Vandermillens, and she testified in both trials that when Lyle Menendus was eight years old, she was living with the family for the summer and he came down to her room in the basement one night and said that he wanted to stay in her room and he was complaining that his father was touching him

down there. And Diane vannermal And immediately went upstairs and talked to Kitty Menendez and said, you know, I'm really concerned while came and, you know, just told me this story of something weird going on. And according to Dian Vannermillen's testimony, Kitty Manendas said, oh, you know, don't listen to him, he's just making that up.

you know, throughout their lives growing up. And there was one point when Eric men Has revealed some information about the molestation to Lyle when he was thirteen years old. And you know, Lyle was very young, thirteen years old, and you know, tried to say something to his father,

but you know, that didn't go anywhere. But Eric Menendez revealed to Lyel Menendez about four or five days before the murders, before this series of confrontations, that the molestation by his father was still going on and he was ten years old or i'm a said, may maybe seventeen years old, seventeen th eighteen. But Lyle Eddas was shocked to hear that it was still going on, and he

decided that he was going to confront his father. Joseon Eddus was on the East coast on a business trip, and the brothers kind of made a plan that Lyle was going to confront Jose and threatened to go to the police or threaten to go to other family members.

And according to the brother's testimony, these series of confrontations got more and more heated as the days went on, and when Lyle Menendas did confront his father, according to his testimony, Jose Menand is that you know, you know, you say you're going to reveal this to relatives or the police, I'm never going to let that happen. And the brothers had been told throughout their lives as a typical of abusers. If you tell anybody, I'm going to

kill you. And so you have to understand that the atmosphere of the world of you know, the strange life behind the gates of the Menenda's mansion that the brothers grew up in was not a typical situation. And that's I think the problem that the public has trying to filter this through, you know, our perspectives of you know, normological thinking, and we look, we look at some of these events and say, that's ridiculous, how could that ever happen?

But when you learn the history of this family, that's when you find out the truth. And one of the most interesting things that I learned about Menenda's family and these Vets attorneys, Jose Menus was kind of the rich uncle in the Meneta's family. A lot of the family was not so well off. But if you needed alone, if one of your kids needed their first job, you went to uncle pose And so nobody ever wanted to kiss off the rich uncle, because he never knew when

you might need the rich uncle. So after the brothers are arrested and the defense attorneys get all of these family members together in one room, and they all had bits and pieces of a puzzle, and they all started comparing notes, and the life bulbs started going off over everybody's head, and they were horrified to realize that, you know, some of their suspicions apparently were true.

him than Lyle during the trials. Both brothers used to call me frequently during the two Menendez trials, and so in twenty twenty one they are both together. They were

separated for twenty two years. The La County Probation Department recommended that they be placed in the same prison, and on the day of their sentence in July second, nineteen ninety six, the Beverly Hills foot filed the motion and said, we believed that the Menenda's brothers should not be sent to the same prison because they were co conspirators in a crime, and if they are sent to the same facility, it's likely that they will conspire to commit a new crime.

And that's ridiculous. That was completely done out of spite. And so for twenty two years, the Bananda's brothers had been in different prisons around California. They were not allowed to talk to each other on the phone. The only communication they had was two letters or they could get information from each other's wives. Both both brothers are Mary, by the way, and in April of twenty eighteen, the

brother lyle Menandaz. In February twenty eighteen, filed for the sixth year in a row, asking for a transfer to be with his brother, and the California Department of Corrections granted his request for a transfer, and both Lyle and myself believed that the NBC Law and Order two Crime the Menenda's Murder series might have been a factor in the California Department of Correction granting his request for a transfer.

The brothers were reunited and saw each other for the first time in April twenty eighteen, and they now see each other every day, and they are grateful to be together, and the family is grateful that they are together, and both brothers have been really good citizens and members of their prison community. Lyle Menendez is very involved in the prison government. He was head of the prison government at

neil Creek State Prison for fifteen years. He's an activist in prison reform Airic Menendu's created a hospice program at Donovan Prison, something he had done at his previous prison. He is also leading a weekly group in mindful meditation. Lyle leads a weekly group for prisoners who were abused when they were kids, and they are in the general population. They're both well liked, they have made the best of what they can out of their lives, and they're both

very blessed. They both have loving, supportive wives, which is kind of a remarkable, you know, site tangent of the story. So they're doing the best they can, but you know, and being contributing members to the prison community. But the you know, the the Menenda's family would like to see them released from jail. Kiddy Menanda's sister is eighty nine years old. Jose Menanda's sister, Manta is going to turn eighty in July, and their wishes are they would like

to see the brothers released before they die. And this new movement of Menenda supporters all over the world has caught all of us, you know, that have been following the case closely, has caught all of us by surprise and by the boy, this this movement is growing. It's not just you know, something like a passing thing on

on social media. But but I've been tracking it. My teenage son came to me last fall about the first videos in TikTok, and there are new supporters every day I'm picking up I'm picking up fifty to one hundred new followers on my social media accounts every week, and it's been fascinating to me to interact with you know, many of these supporters are young kids, high school and college age, and I am so impressed with the research they are doing into the facts of the case, in

the minutia of the case. And one of the resources they have available is that the entire trial is available on portv dot com and so they're watching the you know, the testimony of all the witnesses, they are getting into the transcripts, and I mean, I'm really kind of pulled over by the enthusiasm for these new supporters. But I also want to mention that even though the perception of the media again is that oh, these are just kids, high school kids, college kids. I have been in touch

with adult supporters in different parts of the world. One of the people I've spoken with is a NYPD officer in New York who is believes the Brothers should be released from jail. I've spoken to people in Germany that believe the same thing adults, And there are a number of adults who were abused when they were kids that have been long time supporters of the brothers, and there have been new members with that background in this supporter community.

And in fact, when the Brothers were on trial in nineteen ninety three their first trial, they were getting one thousand letters a week from people all over the world. About half those letters were from groupies, young girls that you know, thought they were attractive and you know, we're

interested in watching the case on TV. But half the letters the brothers were getting were from adults who had been abused when they were kids, and they wrote to Eric and Lyolmaneze's and said, nobody believed me when I was a little kid, and I believe you. And when Lylmanz testified in the first trial, so every day he was on the witness stand, he carried he carried one of those letters in his pocket from a different abuse survivors.

on your site right the Menendez murders. Thank you.

Robert Rand. For the new Menendez Defenders. It's been fascinating speaking to you about all things new with the Menendez brothers and their fight for a new trial.