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You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Good Evening. Fred Rosen follows a killer's trail back in time two decades to discover how a monster slipped through the legal system. When police and Tampa floor arrested Larry Singleton in nineteen ninety seven for brutally murdering prostitute Roxanne Hayes, they soon realized it wasn't the man's first violent attack.
Back in nineteen seventy eight, he had gained notoriety as the Mad Chopper for raping and cutting off the arms of fifteen year old Mary Vincent on a patch of desolate sun's scorched land five miles off the highway near Modesto, California. When Singleton was led out of prison on supervised parole after serving only eight years for his crimes, no community in California would accept him. He eventually moved back to his home in Florida, where he killed Hayes, nearly twenty
years after his original crime. But his first victim, Vincent, had survived walking nearly a mile to get help after the assault, and testified against him at the trial for murdering Hayes. The book they were featuring this evening is The Mad Chopper, How the Justice System let a mutilate or free this time to kill With my special guest, Fred Rosen, Welcome to the program, and thank you very
much for agreeing to this interview. Fred Rosen. Good evening, Fred Good evening, Fred Rosen, Good evening, Fred Rosen.
Hello, Hello, Fred, good evening, Good evening, Dan, how are you fine? Thank you.
We had another caller, so I guess it's someone just listening in, So welcome to the program. Welcome back, Fred.
Well, it's my pleasure. I can understand. I know what was happening while there was a problem. That's that's the NSA. They're they're they're making trouble. Dan, you know what I mean.
Okay, Sure, Well that's good. More listeners the better.
Hey, Well, you know I never thought of it that they could be listening to Washington. Yeah, we're not supposed to get political. I suppose right. How are you Dan, How are you fine?
Thank you, Fred? How are you busy as usual?
I see, yes, sir, yes, sir, I am. And it was funny because I reread you know, The Man Chopper today, and you know, because unlike some people who do what you do, you actually read the book and ask incredibly intelligent questions. And I got to tell you when I got to the end of it, and I know I wrote it, I had tears in my eyes because of Mary Vincent. Absolutely, I mean it was really something, and you know, I haven't looked her up lately, and well,
you know, obviously we're going to talk about it. But you know, it's very very interesting, you know, how these things play out and how the justice system works regardless of the country. And I'm very aware that, thank god, you have listeners all over the world, and so it's not just the question of what happens in the United States. It's Canada, it's Australia, it's it's it's it's England, it's Germany. You know, we're all in this together.
Now, let's get to the the question I always ask is I'm curious what exactly brought you this opportunity to do this book to match up er, how did you come to this book?
Well, this it's you know, in reading again and reading the book again, and it reminded me that this is pretty unique. What happened was it's twenty years ago, okay. And what happened was my daughter had just been born, and I was in Valparaiso, Indiana, waiting to go upstairs to the neo natal unit to holder meter, you know. And before we went upstairs, I had a local paper and I'm reading the local paper and Dan, I see the picture of this dude, Larry Singleton, staring up at
me from page three. I remember what paper it was, but it doesn't make any difference. And I start reading and it said that this guy had been captured in Hillsboro County, Florida, which is the Tampa area, for murdering a prostitute. And I had written a book called Lobster Boy there about crime there, and I went, g, this is you know, you know, I know these people and stuff, and you know, I know all the cops and the prosecutors and so forth. And what happened was, Dan, it
was serendipity. I got a phone call from my editor, Paul Dennis, who at that time was the editor in chief of Kensington Books. And this fellow pulled Dennis is largely responsible for the way that true crime became a popular genre. And Paul said to me, Fred, I was just reading the you know, the New York of the Daily News, New York newspaper, and he said, there's a front page story about a guy called the Man Chopper. I said, I just saw the same picture. He said,
that's your next book. I said what. And I told him my daughter had just been born. And I said, well, this seems a little bit violent, even for me. And he goes, Fred, you just became a father. You need work, and that's how this book came about.
Amazing. Now let's get to Let's get to Berkeley, California, and where you set the stage. It's just nineteen seventy eight, University of California, a very unique university, an incredible time, nineteen seventy eight. And this is University of California, you say, across the bay from San Francisco. And yet she sets out this fifteen year old girl, Mary Vincent, fifteen years old.
She had as you've set the background, she had a companion named Diego Montea, and ironically and very bizarrely, he was accused of raping a different fifteen year old girl, but she was dedicated to him, and so she decided to help him out. And she was going to see her lawyer in Marion County Civic Center and she called her grandfather. She didn't have any money, Rick or Vincent in Los Angeles, and she said she was going to
visit him, asked him to get some money. So she was hitchhiking, and she had hitchhiked and she got to what they call Hitchhiker's Corner. So take it from there. What happened at Hitchhiker's Corner and who she meets.
Well, what happens is Dan. She she's at Hitchhiker's Corner, which is a which is a place on the University of California at Berkeley's campus where kids would go to hitchhike. And a dude pulls up, pulls up in a van and and he says, where are you going? And she says, I'm going to Los Angeles, blah blah blah. And this guy is a guy with a I love this word, Bulbous knows. And he's in his oh he's in his early fifties, and uh, he's you know, but he's he's a tall guy. He's very well built, and uh, he
seemed pretty innocent enough. And she gets in the car with him, and the next thing, you know, you know, they're driving through you know, they leave Berkeley, which is of course, which is east of San Francisco, and he's really supposed to go south, you know, to get to Los Angeles, but he keeps going east. And she gets very suspicious, like what's this about? And he gives us some BS story and eventually he takes her to a house where he's a house that he has, and what
he does is he said, listen. He says, if you help me load some stuff into the van, I'll give you some money and I'll take yourself to Los Angeles. She says, okay. So they go to the house. She helps him load the stuff into the van, and a lot of it is dog food, believer or not. They get back in the in the van and he starts
imbibing from a gallon jug. And I didn't know people do this sort of stuff, because it turns out that in the gallon jug he's got two hundred percent alcohol dan which he cuts with water and the next thing you know, he's drinking. You know, he winds up. You know, they're driving and they keeps going east and she's going, what's going on here? Well, this guy winds up raping this poor girl and it gets worse. Should I keep going? Or do you want to just ask the questions? Yeah?
No, So so there's a point where you talk about she has again there's some red flags come up because he acts bad at first, then he apologizes, then he takes her for a little dinner. Everything seems to be okay. Again, this is not this is just a fifteen year old girl. That's you know, in that time that was his shiking. Was it was normal?
Man?
Yes, I think that's an excellent point to make that in the late seventies in California, this was the end of the hippie era. This was not an uncommon situation for uh, for kids to hitchhike. This was before we were worried about serial killers and so forth. So she was just doing what a lot of kids did. Because she wanted to go to Los Angeles to talk to her granddaddy who is going to help her out financially, and so.
For it, and.
The guy takes her to dinner. But again, eventually what happens is he's drinking and like some alcoholics Larry Singleton, which is the name of the bad guy, he becomes a different human being under the influence of alcohol, and he winds up raping Mary Vincent. And then it gets worse from there, I believe, you know, which is part to believe, ladies and gentlemen, but it does. It gets much worse from there.
Now you talk about her being raped, and he is not taking her anywhere near Los Angeles at all. He takes her into the Del Puerto Canyon, a really deserted and isolated place, and there's a point where he says, you know, I got to take a leap, and she says me too, So we can Can we say.
That on radio? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry.
So he's talking about he's raping her brutally, but now he's got his hands around her neck, so it's a little different than the previous rape. Yes, and he decides he looks around and he sees this drainage pipe, So what does he do well, yeah, we.
Need to explain this. That's an excellent point. What happens is and I went out there when I wrote the book. I can't write about something unless I see it and breathe it so that the reader understands what it's about, you know what I mean. So and and I just so that people understand we're talking about I don't know how many miles he's that is of that maybe it's twenty five miles east of Lodesto, California. And what happens is he says he needs to take a leak, and
the girl says the same thing. And he's in this really isolated place. I mean we're talking. You know, it's a movie set. You know, people have seen this stuff in the movies. You know, an isolated like high desert. I think they call it the high Desert. I'd have to look at my geography, but it's a very deserted area and a lot of rocks and so forth. And he parks the van near a covert and they get out and the next thing you know, he is assaulting her again. But you want me to say what happens?
I guess I should. All right, I'll just say ladies and gentlemen, this is probably the I think in my career. It is the most horrific physical assault I know of. Okay, we're not just talking rape. What happens is Larry Singleton realizes that he needs since he has raped her, if she survives, she can testify against him. So the idea is, what do you do to prevent identification? And we're not dealing with a guy who's got all of his oars
in the water. And what he decides to do is throw her down on the ground, and he's good, and he takes a hatchet and he cuts off her arms below the elbow.
So that.
There won't be any fingerprints. And then he takes her body and he thinks she's dead and stuffs her into the colvert. And this idiot then takes the severed limbs and puts them in his back in his sand and drives off. And Mary, God was with her, survives. And what happens is she winds up it and she's conscious, Ladies and gentlemen, when he does it. But God was with her because what happens is there's a lot of mud, so that the stumps that she has now are in
the mud. And that's stops the hemorrhaging and the bleeding. She will subsequently wake up, and when she does, this girl has so much survival in her she will walk almost two miles until a good Samaritan helps her. And what happens is Singleton, the bad guy goes back west and he's driving over the Oakland Bay Bridge, which many of us have driven over. And you know what he does, Dan, He opens up the driver's side door and he tosses the limbs out into the water, which turned out to
be a very, very big mistake. And this is why you know people like me and you get to write about people this because they're not the brightest apples in the bunch. They just figure that nobody's going to know about it. But that's not what happens here.
You talk about him attempting to kill her, because basically that's what he thought he was doing, was murdering her and cutting off her hands so that she could not be identified if the body was found, and he tried to do at least a good job of hiding the body for the time period, and then believed he could take the hands and throw them away as he did. The image that I get from the way you've written this book is that and this image is still in my head and it's been in my head since I
start reading this book. Oh wow, her wandering down the highway, naked, delirious, eighty or ninety degree weather. The first car that sees her, after she's managed to walk a mile or more, he's so affrightened he turned around and takes off the other way. It takes her, she doesn't even know how many hours before someone else comes and saves her. A man comes and takes her into his car, drives to an airport
and calls nine to one to one. Amazing that image of this woman with just bloodied stumps, naked, walking down the road asking for help.
And you know, it's what's so interesting about what you're saying, is that, is that you would have thought, given the name what you're saying, the images, And you're right, the image, it's an incredible image. You would have thought that in some way somebody would have done an m Ow movie of the week or a movie, but that never happened. And I suspect it's because it's so horrific. But I think what's very interesting here is that she you're you know,
you're right. I mean, she's walking in this you know, it's eighty or ninety degrees, and she's naked because that's you know, each stripped of her clothing. And the first dude, that Caesar, walking along in the shimmering desert heat, just keeps going, Well, I don't know who that person is, but if he's listening, I don't have anything to say. But the second individual, Caesar, is a terrific human being, and he puts her into the car and they go
to the to a local airstrip. And that's really where I feel that the police really, you know, there is so much attention. I was thinking about this today, Dan, There are so much attention today about police officers not
doing their job and so forth. Well, these police officers in Stanislaus County, California were fantastic and they were able to not only rush her to the hospital to save her life, but the detective on the case, his name was Brishers, was able to not only interview her, but he used hypnosis in order to get her to recall certain details which would eventually help convict Singleton. And you know, as I'm reading this, I'm reading this, I wrote it.
You know, I'm thinking, you know what, what's going on? You know this, This is the kind of story that needs to be told because so much attention has been
focused on the negativity regarding police officers. But this is a detective, and this guy is wonderful, and so are these the detectives at this police department, and and and so Mary Vincent is able to give Lieutenant Brisher's a description of our assailant, and they get a fantastic police artist to do a you know, a composite which they put out over the wires, and you know, and it's like when you know, as again as I was reading it today, going you know this, I don't know if
they still do this stuff today, Dan, I honestly don't know. You know. All I can tell you is these cops were fantastic and they saved this girl's life and then they were eventually able to get the bad guy.
Now you talk about and again this is in the last few episodes we talked about some incredible efforts to bring in hypnosis into the mix. And yeah, not only did this, not only this fifteen year old have the wherewithal to remember important details like that he was a merchant marine that he had a first aid kit in the window that he had another house in Reno, Nevada, and then they put her under And it's amazing what
you chronicle. The information that they did get they didn't know the value of at that time, but they still again, these dedicated cops were incensed over this and were out raged, and so even more so they worked with some dedication to try to solve this. And Todd Mack did a fantastic job. And so the neighbor, a neighbor that had lived in San Pueblo said, you know, it took her a couple of days to come to the decision, but she called the police and said, I think this is
my neighbor and take it from there. What how much information they got from Mary, and again traumatized as she was, was still cooperating with the police and detective for shears. But as you say, the break in the case comes from again that good work, from that description and what do the police do with this tip?
Well, what happened? You know what? You know what really gets me? You know I I you know, I in my generation, Dan Simmy Davis Junior would go on TV shows. Here I go going off the topic. I realized that, and he'd always say something really terrific about the host. What gets me is that I want all of our listeners to understand how you really absorb the information that you read and ask incredibly intelligent questions. Okay, you can. You can give me five dollars afterwards, and if you
want to, it can be Canadian. So anyway, okay, now here's the thing. What happens is is this this this felam. Mister Mac does a sketch of the bad guy and it goes out and a woman in California sees it. We're talking a lot in California and says, you know, that looks like Larry Singleton and he used to be my my, my neighbor. Okay, And simultaneously for Shears, who has been tru I mean, this is unbelievable to me.
I mean, this is like Sherlock Holmes, the Rashers. The detective has been trained in forensic hypnosis, so he hypnotizes her and what he does, I mean, it's just what he does is he gets to recall the events in the third person, so she's not traumatized. And what she remembers is that when she went to Singleton's house, and again she doesn't know his name at this point. She just knows he's a merchant Marine because that's what he said he was. There was a first, a kid in
the window of the house, which you mentioned. Well, what happens is the police put together what Mary says the victim and what Sandra, the neighbor, tells them about Singleton, and they go to the dude's house and they go in and they I mean they did the I mean it's like they did it by the numbers. They get them sell a search warrant. You know, this isn't some stupid TV show. You know, they get a search warrant.
They go in, and now they find in the fireplace the guy some stuff was being burned and it turned out it was Mary Vincent's clothing. So now they know who they're looking for, and they keep going and they find he's done. The guy was a merchant Marine and he was making a lot of money, which, by the way, that was an education. I didn't know they did. And the dude had another residence in Nevada, and that leads
the police in Nevada to capture him. And when they do, Singleton waves extradition and they send him back to California. So now they got their suspects. I mean, this was and this was just such terrific policing. I don't know any other way of putting it, you know. And there's one other thing we should mention earlier. I said that when he's when Singleton is driving over the Oakland Bay Bridge, he throws the the the arms, the severed arms, out
the window, just by folks. One of them winds up going into an estuary and washes up and they find it. I mean they a fisherman finds it, calls the police, and now they have the arm to match to our stump forensically. And and it's incredible because, you know, because there's two ways of looking at this. One way is
of course how awful it is and the trauma. But the other way of looking at this is what you said earlier, which is the police determined that they were going to get this guy because nobody had ever seen anybody do what this guy did, and they said, we're going to get him. And you know what, everybody. What they did was they used the law. They didn't go outside the law. They use the law, They use technology and most importantly, they used shoe leather to get this
guy and their brains. And to me that that's like, you know, as I'm reading, you know, I'm reading when I'm when I wrote, I'm going, Yeah, these people still around today.
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Now they identify that hand, they make a match. They also now have enough to bring in Larry Singleton Lawrence Singleton, Yes, so he so he doesn't come in with representation. He comes in. They have him speaking without any kind of lawyer. So what does he have to say? What does he say to? How did they conduct this interview?
Is very interesting, It's really interesting, bursars. You know, it's fine. You know, as we're talking, I I didn't look it up. Dan. I'm hoping that he's still around because this guy, he was good and he and his partner rees and what they did was they get him into an interrogation and they and and you know, I don't know, you know, it would it'd be very interesting to find out how this stuff works another events in other countries. But they gave him his rights. You know, you have the right
to be silent, et cetera, et cetera. Anything you say maybe used against you in the court of law. You have the right to the representation of an attorney, and he declines, and he signs off on his right and they start talking to him. Well, long story short, Singleton comes up with a story. He claims that after he picked up Mary Vincent, he picked up two hitchhikers someplace else. One has the name of Larry. Gee, there's a coincidence, and one has the name of Pedro. And he insists
throughout the interrogation that these individuals were there. He insists that Mary had a stick, Ladies and gentlemen, I'm not making this up. He says that she had a stick he was threatening him with, and that later she gave access to a knife that's in the van, and that Pedro gets access to a gun he kept in the van, though he didn't know where he kept it. Though, Gee, you know, maybe somebody should pull the NRA on this guy. But anyway, he had this this this gun, allegedly Pedro.
And so what he tries to do is is slough off any responsibility for what happens to Mary Vincent. And he claims that he didn't do a dance thing to her, and he and but and he keeps invoking God Dan, he keeps saying, God, I didn't do this under God. You know, he keeps talking about God, I didn't do this, blah blah blah, for shears keeps boring in. The cop keeps going in on him and says, you know, he you're you know this, it's it's it's it's it's a
textbook case of how to conduct an interrogation. And he says, no, mister Singleton, you're lying, buddy. He doesn't say it in those in those words, but basically that's what he said. And he keeps trying to get the guy. And this is really it was so interesting. He wanted to know why why would he cut this girl's arms off? Well, not only will Singleton not admit to doing it, you
won't admit to any motive. So the police then have to put their case together with the forensics, the evidence, and with Mary Vincent's testimony.
You also include that part of his story is that this big, tough merchant marine and quite a muscular guy at that time, still in good shape. Big guy was threatened by this fifteen year old with a little stick, and yeah, he threatned go ahead, sir, No, no, no, no, no you go ahead.
No, no, you go ahead.
Yeah, and then he says that she wanted to have wanted to get stoned all the time. She claimed, oh, she loved oral sex. So just a meaning denigrating her character of course, talking about some Mexican guy and some other guy. And and to the credit of Reese and Rashers, Detective Reese just lets this guy go. But at the same time he lets him give him enough, as you call it, rope to hang himself. He's also taking down all the inconsistencies that this guy has when just let
him go and let him talk. And he's also at some point very very challenging of this guy. At some point it's not nice at all, and he's challenging him, trying to get a confession. And this guy seems cool as a cucumber, doesn't he?
I would say, totally as cool as a cucumber. I mean, it's really you know, now, you know they would try. What Forsheers and Reese were trying to do was playing the guy's conscience. And by the way, I believe that I didn't get into it in the book, but this guy is not a associate path I don't see that at all. He had a lot of problems which we would later find out, and the cops at the time didn't know this. But what I'm getting at is that he would not take any responsibility for what he did.
And this is in a situation. This is not a situation where you know, he's smart enough to say, hey, get me a lawyer. He is having problems rationalizing his actions. And there will later be speculation that he had an alcohol of blackout. And what's interesting about that is under American criminal law, if that occurs, that the defense and mitigates the crime. But the two cops were looking at it from the point of view of, you know something, this guy is lying. They felt right from the get
go that he was lying. And what he was doing is what a lot of individuals do who rape a woman, which is trying to essentially he put her on trial for her actions. We're talking a fifteen year old girl. He would actually claim that he thought she was twenty one excuse me, you know. And and he also, you know, here's a guy who not only was he a big, muscular guy in good shape at that point, the guy, oh my god, you know. And as funny as I was reading the book again today, because I said to myself.
Dan's canna ask me questions, I better know what the hell I'm talking about. And he was a veteran of the Korean War, and he was on Pork Chop Hill, which was one of the worst battles of the Korean War where the Communist Chinese attacked our troops and we lost at least fifty percent of them. The point this guy was in, you know, essentially hand to hand combat. So the idea that a fifteen year old girl could hold this individual at bay with a stick. Gee, if
you believe that one. I got a bridge in Brooklyn, I'll sell you for five bucks. All right, Dan, you don't want to buy at You don't want to buy the bridge in five bucks? Don't get good?
Okay, Well, you talk about this, you talk about this technique, the employer, this ruse they employ on him. They say they're trying to get this confession. They're pushing as hard as they can and they think they might get one. They said, listen, we found some blood on the hatchet. How do you explain that? And so how does he respond?
Oh? Well, he says, it gets goes further than that. He says, oh, I don't know how it got there. I didn't use the hatchet. I haven't been hunting for a long time. I mean. He also talked about how there was a string on the hatchet and the string was you know, the hit on the handle, and he talked and the comps asked him about why it was that the string was was broken a torn rather, and he came up with some you know, his old bs, you know, And so he doesn't have any explanation for
any of this. He has no explanation. You know. It's it's it's you know, it's the it's the other guy defense. You know, somebody else did it, somebody else used my stuff, et cetera, et cetera. And that's basically it. I mean, you know, he doesn't, you know. And look, look, do I understand why he would say that. Yeah, he's not going to confess, but it was a bunch of bs. Can I say that on radio?
Sure? Thank you?
So that you know, it really doesn't go anyplace. I mean, it's just the fact that you know, he the cops just like us as we're as we're talking today, and I'm sure the listeners around the world are thinking to themselves, why would a person commit such a horrendous crime and you know something I don't know. You know, while logic would say he wants to get rid of the the arms because of identity, okay, and granted it's the seventies,
so there's no DNA going down or anything like that. Still, what we're talking about is violence, if there is such a thing over the top. And we will later find out that he would claim Singleton that he was abused growing up by his mother and that, you know, and this was something the police didn't know at the time. It comes out much much later, and you know, that is certainly indicative of the problems he had to add
his life with women. And I might add that he had a daughter and he physically abused the daughter as a teenager. Of course, he denied. This guy dealt you know, lived in denial his entire life. And you know, as we're talking about it, you know where it comes to mind, Dan, the word become to mind is in order for somebody like this to continue to do what he does, abuse a child, for instance, enabler people enabled him throughout his life.
And one of the things the police were interested in was as a merchant marine, did he do stuff in other places they weren't able to find that out. But that's for a lot of reasons. Number one, the guy sailed all over the world, so you'd have to have a fortune in taxpayers' money to track all this stuff down. And I suspect, as we're talking right now, that he raped women and or abused them in various ways in other venues, but they didn't have the resources at that
point to go after him in that respect. But one thing that we do know is that when people are this abusive, we know that it tends to be a pattern. And again, I'm going to say the same thing tend to be enabled by other individuals. And you know what I mean, Dan, There's there's look I've got I've got a relative, Dan okay, who a couple of years ago disagreed with me about in a political discussion. The dude reached across the table and tried.
To hit me.
First, cousin. Why does he get away with it because people enabled him? The same situation. If you know, as people listen to what we're talking about, that take a closer look at people you know that might be relatives, that might be acquaintances. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of you will find that there are individual to individual to do stuff like this. I'm not talking murder, but I'm talking about abuse. And that's the tip of the iceberg.
I thought, no, back, yeah, back to the victim of this crime, this Mary Vincent. Very again. This is the outcome of this book for me is that I just picture her again that images in my head, but also just a sad story. And we won't get ahead of ourselves here, but at this time, and it's at this time, at the same time that they're questioning this guy, and yeah, she's the victim of crime, and so potentially she needs
new arms. So she needs victim of crime compensation program that they have in California, which is just new and her you say, her medical costs are good, likely to exceed over ten thousand dollars. But the only problem is she's not from California.
Yes, oh, you picked up on something really good here, buddy. Yeah, they had to move the laws around a little bit to make sure to try and get her benefits. But quite frankly, I'm just gonna say it, Okay, California did not do what did not do their job. You know, here's a woman who the crime is committed in in California, and she's going to need new arms. And now again we're talking. You know, this is seventy eight, so we're talking what is that many years ago? Is that forty
years ago? Right? It's almost forty years ago. Now. Of course the technology has changed since then. But the bottom line is nobody came forward to really give her help. In fact, it was only you know, as we're talking about it. When I was reading the book again, I was laughing because there's a section in the book where what happens is I mentioned that Jamie Summers flew in. Jamie Summers was the Bionic Woman, which was a TV show at NBC, and the actress who played the part
flew in to help her out. And the Bionic Woman, of course that bionic limbs. And the bottom line here is that I don't know, there's no evidence that anybody in the entertainment business, anybody in government there, industry, etc. Came forward to help her get new limbs. And in fact, at that point the technology was the same as what had gone on in World War Two. Some people may remember a movie called The Best Years of Our Lives
in which Harold Russell wins. The Oscar is bereft of his arms because of an accident in World War Two. He's a soldier, and he gets cooks for arms. Well, this is basically what happened with Mary Vinsk And not only that, what was so said.
Is that.
They forget about the technology, the the the artificial limbs that they give her. They don't last. So she's got problems with them, and you don't see anybody coming forward two help her. Now, I don't know what you know. I haven't looked it up. I guess I should have. You know, I'm Mary at this point would probably be in about fifty so, but I don't know if she's ever gotten anything better than what she had. And that's that's just it's not only said, but it's wrong, you
know what I mean, it's it's it's wrong. And so here's this. Then I write that she's been denied a future. What this guy took away from her was a future. And I mean, look at what's his name, the guy in what's his name? You know, the guy in South Africa, you know, the convicted murderer. The guy's had artificial limbs, you know, really sophisticated. But this woman didn't have that advantage, and I don't know why people didn't come forward at that time, and I don't know what's happened since, so
I have to be very frank about that. But I do know that by the time we get to the late nineties when Singleton and we're getting ahead here, is eventually tried for another crime. She's in the same situation. And I'm only going back that nineteen or eighteen years, so she doesn't have a very sophisticated set of artificial limbs.
Now she has to go to the grand jury. Grand jury doesn't take much to get an indictment for this guy. Tell us what the outcome of the trial is. And the most interesting part of this because we already know that Valuda do that he got out to do this again, So how on earth what is he charged with? And what kind of sun So let's get to what the outcome is. That's we know what would happen, But how what are the conditioned? What are the rules? How is it that what's he charged with? First?
Well, the grand jury, which in the United States is a lot individuals that get together their voters and they get together in a big room and grand juries in the United States are generally manipulated by the prosecutor. In other words, if the prosecutor wants to get an indictment, it's pretty easy to get on. You know, it's rubber stamped. I don't know how it works in other places, you know, but I just want to explain that.
Okay.
So now here's what happens. Dan. They charge Singleton with a it's a variety of charges, everything from sexual assault to physical assault. And that's where it gets interesting. In other words, there is no there's nothing in the law then, and I suspect now where you know, you charge somebody, there's nothing that's you know, when you say, oh, okay, you cut off somebody's arms, blah blah blah ah, it's
physical assault. So the idea is that they're going to charge him and and then you know, and the grand jury comes in with their indict and it's physical assault, sexual assault essentially. You know, there's it's a number of charges, attempted murder, and then it's going to go to trial. And in California history, you know, these things change over
the years. But there were some limitations regarding what they could convict them on, and most importantly, what the sentence would be see and that's where it gets really interesting, because you know, you can't change a law just because somebody does something. I mean, you can change it subsequently, but the fact that he cut off her arms doesn't mean that you can then say, Okay, he cut off her arms, she should get life. Well, I don't think most of us would say that would be unreasonable, but
you can't change the laws. So basically it's you know, it's a certain amount of years behind bars. And in fact, the most the guy can get at the time, in the late seventies in California, and admittedly, folks, California is a liberal state, the most this dude can get is fourteen years behind bars. That's the most if the jury convicts on all charges.
At the same time, you've put though that in reals with good behavior, it's a spider any of this past record in terms of this crime and the heinous nature. He can be out in eight years on good behavior. That's the maximum he can do.
Correct, Dan, you know that this was an education for me. I mean again, I you know, one day we should have a discussion how this works. In Canada, Australia, Germany, et cetera. England. But yes, with good behavior, not only good behavior, like if he does certain jobs behind bars, he gets credits so you can get out. So in other words, the bottom line is, here's a guy who, again, ladies and gentlemen, it's the late seventies. He rapes a
fifteen old girl, he cuts off her arms. He gets sentenced to fourteen years, and if he's a good guy behind bars, he'll be out in eight And that's what happens. He because he is a merchant marine one of the reasons, certainly, and he's used to discipline. He is a model prisoner, and because he's in great shape, nobody's gonna mess with him. You know, this is not a guy that's going to you know, nobody's gonna mess with him.
And so.
He gets out in the middle nineteen eighties. That when I say gets out, I mean he gets parole. What happens from that point is another story.
This is one of the most unique stories I've ever read in terms of somebody getting out and being forced again tell us what he was forced to do or the government was forced to do and why. I mean, it's again right out of set. You know, is this a modern day lynch potential. So tell us about this.
Sure, Dan, you know it's funny is I was writing it and again as I was reading it again, it reminds me of the Old West. And you know what happens is the die comes up for parole and it's a big deal because the question becomes, where's he going to go? It's a celebrated case within California and it's getting headlines across the United States. I mean, for god's sakes, eight years for cutting off a young girl, rolls arms
and rape, and now they're gonna let him go. They're gonna let him go, and the then and so the question then becomes, Okay, where's he gonna go? Well, they start saying, well, we'll send him back to where he came from the county in California. Next thing that county says, are you kidding? We don't want him. And as the state tries to find a place to place him, to place him, each venue says, hey, buddy, he's not coming over here. Well, eventually what happens is, now you know
the one you know, there's a date. Can't keep somebody at least then you couldn't keep somebody in prison. Beyond a certain date. So now they got to release him then. So the next thing you know, he's they're moving them around, ladies and gentlemen. They're moving them around, on taxpayer money, from town to town in northern California. And what happens is at one point he's in one of these towns and they're keeping it quiet. I should mention this, but
that's the most important thing. They're keeping it quiet because you know, it's understandable the state Parole Board doesn't want to know. I want people will know the man Chopper is in their venue. Well, people find out and at one point I've never seen this, actually I don't. I've never seen this in modern day. A lynch mob forms. He's in some place in northern California, whatever town, it's not important. The point is people find out that he's there.
Oh my god, they show up, and you know, I was actually surprised when I read the accounts that nobody was carrying a rope. You know, I'm thinking to myself, geez, you know, trying to bring in the you know, the United States marshals. Well, that's not what happened. The locals are trying to take care of it. By themselves, and each venue, each town. Every time they tried to place him in town, a can be whatever, their lawyers would go into staate court and say, we don't want them,
we're not going to take them. And they actually did have a lynch mob in one of these counts and they got them out and they you know, the the parole officers, and they took them someplace else. You know, they kept moving this dude around and of course this is you know, this is all being done on the public dollar. Singleton is you know, he's very happy, of course that he's at hell, you only heard eight years. So now the question becomes, okay, where do we put
him so that people can't get to him? And should I explain what happens?
Yes, what happens is.
Somebody who's smart comes up with the idea, okay, let's put him on the grounds of San Quentin prism And the idea is they'll put him there and he'll have a separate residence. And again this is on public dollars, and he's actually free to move around but with his bodyguards, and they decide that he'll serve out the length of his parole there. And it's something like a year or two, whatever it is, and then once he's finished with that, he can go any place he wants to in the world.
So that's the compromise that's reached. They'll put him essentially back behind prison walls for his own safety. Now, I've never seen anything like this, and I, ladies and gentlemen, I doubt we'll ever see anything like this again, and hopefully we don't and that, but that's what happens, you know. And so he's now behind San Quentin, this prison walls,
and he's serving at his time there. And every once in a while, you know, it's late late seventies, he you know, he goes to the Oh no, it's not a late seventies, middle eighties, so you know, he goes to the movies and whatever, you know, you know, goes
out to McDonald's. I pointed out in the book that it's you know, he's first introduced when he comes out to the microwave other you know, and uh, you know, so the guy winds up, the guy winds up serving out his parole time behind essentially behind prison walls, and then it gets really interesting. That's that for a segue.
Yes, well, so now he has to eventually get out and again the the mob that almost got him. There's still this politically and practically, and the media and the informed public don't want him in California. So where does he end up in underwhite conditions?
You mean, well, what happens is great question after he serves out his parole and you know, we're not you know, it's funny as we're talking about it right now. You know, it wasn't a long period of parole. You know, it's like a couple of years or something. And so what happens is he he's got to, uh, you know, where's he gonna go? And he's very aware. He's not a
stupid guy. I believe he's a very smart guy. And the I you know, so where's he gonna go so that people don't keep coming after him, which they're doing in California. Well, his home is Tampa, Tampa, Florida. That this is the part that cracked me up in the book and in reality. So he's a laughed because he's a parole now. Dan. So according to the rules in California, he's allowed to go wherever he wants. So he's not he didn't go to Hawaii. He didn't go to Alaska,
he didn't go to Jamaica, didn't go to Germany. And I said Germany because and Marie Acaman may be listening, my friend. And he goes to Tampa, Florida because that's where he comes from, and his family tries to help him, and he goes back home this is where he comes from. And one of his brothers buys him. She we should be so lucky. A really nice ranch house. Do you
guys call the ranch house in Canada? By the way, sure, sure, okay, See Biden is small ranch house, and you know, in another way, ladies and gentlemen, it's one story and it's it's an orient park, which is not a nice particularly nice area, And he goes there to live, and he gets smart and he changes his name to I think
it's Bill Johnson. The irony is that the name that he uses is the name of the One Armed Man and the old TV show The Fugitive g Go So the One Armed Man, ladies and gentlemen, And so he winds up moving there and he registers with the police. You know, he's you know, he's following the law, Dan, you know, and but he's going down hill and you know. The one thing we haven't touched on, and it's something
I've seen in a lot of criminal cases. The dude had a lot of post traumatic stress syndrome from serving in combat. Number One, it was never dealt with. Why is it, I don't know, but that's true. It was never dealt with. The guy was an alcoholic. I'm not talking functioning alcoholic. I'm talking alcoholic. And they did not nobody require to attend AA meetings or anything of that nature. Okay.
And so we have an individual with severe emotional and physical problems and for whatever reason, the system is not dealing with it. So he moves back to Tampa and oh boy, oh Dan, oh god. When I saw this when I wrote the book, there's a Yiddish expression I plotted. He moved to Gibsonton. Briefly, Gibsonton is where Lobster Boy takes place. He drank with Grady Styles junior Lobster Boy.
Yeah. I couldn't believe it.
I mean, it's amazing, it's amazing, you know, I mean, it's amazing. And then and then what happened was that was initially and then the family, as I said, they bought him a place in Orient Park which I went to, and it was a very nice place, Dan, it was a very nice place. And I mean I didn't go in obviously, you know, but I couldn't do that. But it was really a nice place. And this is where he would live. And he changed his name, as I said to Bill Johnson, So his neighbors knew him by
that name. However, they some of them knew his reputation. But he was a very good neighbor. He was into dogs, which some of us are, et cetera, et cetera. So now we're talking about a dude who is in his early sixties, who's a convicted sex offender, convicted of attempted murder in other charges, and he's on social Security. Do you guys have social securities? Yes, thank you, listen. I
don't know. I got to ask the question. You know, I know I get off the track sometimes, but by the way, I gotta tell you, I know I'm getting off track. Sorry, but I didn't know Justin Trudeau was a liberal. Nobody told me, Dan. So anyway, here's what happens. He he starts acting out again. It's very interesting. He starts acting out again. That is, he starts stealing stuff, and so so here we got a guy. You know, we've talked all about what the dude did. Next thing.
You know, he's stealing, you know, he's what he called shoplifting, shoplifting, you know, and it's unbelievable stuff because at one point he shopped lifts a couple of times. You know what happens. They give him two years two years. You know, I don't understand the systems sometimes, you know, what do you got to do to put the guy away for life?
You know?
You know, he rapes somebody, he takes over her arms, gets throll, goes back to his hometown shop, lifts a couple of times. They put him in jail, blah blah blah, gets two years, gets out again, and you know it's you know, I understand, Look, I know, you know this is not a science fiction film with Tom Cruise. I realize that we don't know what's going to happen in the future. But man, when you look at what we're talking about here, you know something's going to go down.
So he gets out after two years, and that sets up what's going to happen next.
Now you talk about the perfect storm. Here a confluence of events, and anyway, he meets this Roxanne Roxy Hayes, one of the most back of the women that was working the streets, six foot seventy pounds. She had met him before, they had exchanged, they'd done business before. She was not apprehensive about him at all. And then we have a guy named Jean Reynolds. So tell us what happens because we want to still talk about something else tonight.
That's very, very important. So tell us quickly what happens. What does Gene Reynolds find out? What happens?
Well, first of Jen Reynolds is a pseudonym. But what happens here is this Larry Singleton picks up Roxanne Hayes, and he's already done business with her before. She's she's a prostitute, she's married. I'm sorry, no, sir, she's not married. She's living with an individual. She has a couple of kids. And so what happens is he picks they've they've already
done business before. He picks her up to his house, the one we mentioned earlier, and during their interaction she asks for more money because the price of cocaine had gone up and she was an addict that leads. I'll just say it. It leads to murder. He takes he takes a knife and he it's pretty awful. He starts stabbing her with a knife. And Gene Reynolds aside from the fact he's one of the creators of mash that's
the reason I use the name. He's a neighbor and he hears the promotion and he sees he looks through the window when he sees Singleton with his arm going up and down on this woman. And what he doesn't realize is in his arm is a knife. He's stamping her to death. It's very sad. And at that point they he calls the cops, and because there's a change of shift, it takes them at least thirty minutes to get a car respond. And what happens is when the
car ladies and gentlemen. You can't make this stuff up. That's why it's true crime. When the cop comes to the door and knocks on the door, Oh yeah, Singleton shows Singleton opens the door. He's naked and where's he's got blood all over him and he's where and naked and he's wearing their condom. Okay, he's wearing a condom and and Singleton actually tries to con the officer not to come into the dissals, but the officer of course does the right thing.
The goes in.
He finds Roxannes dead, you know, in the living room. Stay up to death. That will eventually lead to Singleton being tried and convicted for murder one in Florida, sentenced to death because Florida is a death penalty.
Yes, and incredibly what you include. And again we're gonna have to leave almost our readers or our listeners just hanging here a little bit. But this is an electric chair trial. This story still is very involved and also the most poignant, profound moment is Mary Vincent with her hooks at Larry Singleton in the eye at trial. It's a fascinating There's still more fascinating information we could impart. I want to thank you very much for talking about
the Mad Chopper. We also talked before this show. You have some breaking news and maybe you can introduce our next guest.
I answer up. Before we get to that, I just want to tell the listeners I look after you dudes, and do debts tomorrow. This book is on sale for a dollar ninety nine at Amazon for e book. I just want to let you know this, So don't buy it tonight if you want to. If you want to buy it, do it tomorrow. Okay, just want to let you know.
Go ahead in Yeah, that's very good. Now there's a story that you have been working on and you're very very passionate about involving James Brown. So why don't you just introduce a little bit about what you're working on and who you're working with, and introduce our next guest. And I'm sure has called in, yes, sir.
What happened was over a year ago. I got contacted through Facebook. A friend on Facebook told me about Jackie Hollander. Jackie spells her name jay z ju Uie, just like Jackline Kennedy. And what happened was Jackie had been James Brown's the godfather Saul a music producer is music producer rather and Jackie in nineteen on April first, nineteen eighty eight, was raped by Brown very brutally, and and so I was contacted by somebody. We started chatting. We decided to
do a book. Jackie became a tremendous advocate for rape victims, which we can talk about more. Bottom line is why we were working on our story. She started telling me all these details about James Brown's death in two thousand and six, and as it turns out, As it turns out, it wasn't what the death certificate says, which is that
he died from pneumonia. Didn't happen, folks, And and we can we'll talk about that, but bottom line is Jackie had been very influential with mister Brown in terms of establishing the I Feel Good Trust for under privileged children. And the idea was that when he died, the majority of his estate, which was one hundred million dollars, would
go to that trust. Well that's not what happened. And so I got very passionate, as you say about it, because not only didn't that happen, but because Jackie became a detective essentially to try and solve Brown's suspicious death so that the trust could be reinstated because the trust was broken by Brown's family. So we got an involved and that sort of led us to the point that we're at now. I hope I simmarized it.
Okay, yes, I think. So I want to introduce Jackie Hollander to the program.
Are you on the air, Jackie, Hi, Dan, It's really good to get to talk to you. Heard so much about you.
Well, thank you very much, Thank you very much. Now we have only a few minutes left. We have eight or nine minutes left in the program. But what can you tell us, because I know there are some things that you are not willing to tell us right now. But what can you tell us about the state of the case just in the last few days in terms of development, What can you tell us about any new developments on what you're doing and who you're speaking to.
Tell us what you can about the new developments in this case.
Okay, Well, I think you know. I think Fred has shared with you that I came across a bunch of evidence and it's taken about a year for all of this to come to fruition. But I don't want to say and use the word investigation by the police. But I'm just letting them do their job right now, and I don't want to break too much about it. But I can tell you that law enforcement has stepped in and I put it in their hands and also in God's hands.
Now, you were involved with James Brown, and Fred has told us about this assault at the same time. Though, the big part of this case, as I understand it too, is that and Fred had mentioned it too, is that James Brown, because of his background, had certain concerns for children and had set up this fund. So tell us a little bit more about this trust fund.
Basically, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Basically I started the trust with him. I came up with the idea for it, the I Feel Good Trust, and even came up with the name. When I met James Brown, he really did not do a lot of charity work, and that was my forte and James and I became fifty to fifty partners and we did. I have just cases full of the benefits that we did to raise money for children from Scottish right all the way across
the board. And he had told me that when he died, everything would go into the trust that we built, the I Feel Good Trust. I think it's very clear that if you read Buddy Dallas's Zepha David, it says I am the fifty to fifty partner. He was the lawyer for James Brown for thirty years and he was there
when we did every things. So yeah, you know it unfortunately agreed and it is to have been taken control of by the State of South Carolina and a lot of crop lawyers and hence not one child has received one penny in ten years.
Wow, not long now.
The idea is the idea that that you're what we for our audience, is that this trust fund is at odds with James Brown's biological children and other people that he has has has had relationships with.
If he could explain, well, mister Brown had a wife that really wasn't a wife who was married to another man from Pakistan. She gave birth to a child which she claims is James Brown. But as a rape victim. Uh, when I got raped by James Brown, I mister Brown had to later showed that there was no way he could have gotten me pregnant. Mister Brown had had a vasectomy.
I now have come across another video footage clip of an interview that after he married this woman who claims to be the mother of this child, he's now had two vasectomies, one in the eighties and one in the nineties. And two vasectomies, you can't have a child. Plus he had diabetes and he had cancer in the gonads, and I mean you add all of that up together, there's no way. But they have given this woman all kinds of carte blanche because of her power, connect her connections to people.
Yes, it's a big in terms of it.
It's probably one of the largest cover ups ever in the United States of America, involving millions of dollars.
Now, you also talk about the children not receiving anything from James Brown, and is there any contributing factor in this from those children as well?
Are you talking about his children?
Are you talking his children?
Well, his children, his children.
His children just want the money for themselves. They have recently, after they have caused such a commotion for ten years, finally done a little settlement. It said, they want their father's wishes honored. But of course it's a little hard to honor his wishes when they've spent ten years seeing to it that his wishes were not granted. I mean, this is a man that is buried in his daughter's backyard when his wishes were to be buried by his parents.
May I add, Dan, Dan, that's illegal. Yes, Jackie's correct.
He's not buried, he's in and above ground, above the ground.
I don't. I don't even know if you call it it soon. But the most important point here is this when he died, even though he'd gone to the hospital initially with a diagnosis of a drug overdose and was scheduled to be released Christmas Day two thousand and six, and he was supposed to be one hundred percent. Next thing, you know, the guy dies. The death certificate says it's pneumonia, and the family, according to the records, consisted no autopsy be performed.
Wanted the daughter did Yama Brown insisted no autopsy on one And this is the most famous man in the world as far as soul music. And CNN ran his funeral for two weeks, and we had Saddam Hussein die and we had Gerald Ford died, and they took a back seat to a twenty four hour service going on on CNN in every other station.
That's really interesting. Even I didn't know that.
Wow, well I did, because unfortunately my phone rang off the hook. I was in the Supreme Court with James Brown when he died.
You know what had I I just want to mention the Jackie's case. She sued Brown for rape in the United States Supreme Court and they agreed to take her case. But what happened was when Brown died, the case died, except the president was set okay. And so since then, many individuals have used the president to sue their rapists in federal court, which I think is pretty damn interesting. And I will also yeah, and I would also mention something else after Brown dies, Jackie who lives in Illinois,
You're gonna love this part. Dame uh, the Governor's of broad Blagoovic, the dude that tried that, was convicted of trying to sell Barack Obamas Senate seat and is in federal prison. Well this get this. Then Jackie campaigned to extend a statute of limitations for reporting the crime of rape in the state of Illinois, succeeded, and Blagoovich signed
that into law before he goes into jail. So there were people today who have been who have used Jackie's law, which is what it's called, to bring their rapists to justice, which I think is sort of interesting.
On across the United States of America. I mean it in twenty ten, it essentially was the law that caused the priest to come down. However, I talked with a lot of priests and when I did it in twenty ten in Illinois, you saw a lot of priests being exposed in people coming forward on my law. And then of course it went across the United States and now they're using it everywhere. I'm being told they are using it on Trump, which makes it really difficult. Difficult, she's walker, I'm very difficult.
She's talking now before political belief.
Huh No, we won't need you to do that, I think.
So.
I just wanted to ask before we let you go, just where you are at in terms of cooperation from police? How again, not giving anything away, but where are you in terms of the cooperation from them listening to your version of Is is there any development in that area?
Yes?
I think that changed a little. It's been very difficult. As you know, I'm traveling and I am with a circus, and I'm actually in a show tonight getting dressed for that show. So it's hard when you're traveling. And of course I've had a lot of death threats from the Brown camp and which has made it difficult. And when you're traveling, it's hard to do all of this. But Fred and I have been very vigilant, and there are
days I'll admit where I want to quit. You know, I think you know i'm his victim, and yet I also remember the James Brown prior to what happened to me, So I know both sides. I know the good side and the bad side of him. And that still doesn't give people an offered, you know, an open cart blanche to do away with someone's life. So I think it's important for history, important for the trust that's you know, one hundred million dollars that should be going to the
poor and needy children across our country. I think it's very important that the truth does come out and that you know, I'm one of these people that say let the dominoes fall.
Absolutely very interesting your situation and then your for again what you what you say, and is the truth, the absolute truth about what happens with James bround the good and the bad and the ugly and the truth right. I want to thank you very much for and very applaudable, laudable uh fight that you are in campaign. So the best of luck to you and the very dedicated and thank you so much, Fred Rosen So I'm sure you'll get somewhere with this as well.
Well.
We have our days. I mean, you know, this has become like a marriage, and I have my days where I'm more like a witch, and you know, I'm sure Fred cringes and then and then there's days where I cringe. So it's a really tight knit working relationship that we're bouncing ideas off of each other all the time. And the same as in music. I mean, it's it's two writers together and and it's a hard it's a hard story.
And he undertook a really big, a really big mountain with this when it wasn't just here's the evidence and this is where it's all going to lie. He's had to really learn, and he's had to learn thirty years. That's a lot to put in anybody's brain in just a short time.
Absolutely, I want to thank you very much Jackie Hollander for coming on and talking about this, and I'm sure we'll be back again in the near future talking about this and then when you fully realize this into a full book with Fred Rosen and be very exciting to hear this and know this background story. I want to thank you very much Fred for coming on and talking again about the Mad Chopper and the latest development of the James Brown story. For those people that might want
to contact you, how might they do that? You have a Facebook page? How might they contact you? Fred?
People can conact our action. People can contact me through my Facebook page. And I'm gonna be doing a blog pretty soon, but right now slate Facebook page. And I simply would like to say, I have so much humility should be on with you, Dan, and I thank you so much for your support. There is no I don't have any words, just thank you, sir well.
Thank you very much. Fred. It is always an honor and a pleasure to have you on the program. And I'm excited when Fred Rosen is excited because I know something great is going to be turned up and turned into something very exciting, very much like the Matt Chopper tonight. Thank you very much, Jackie Hollander and Frank thank you very much, Fred Rosen. Hope to talk to you again. To both of you real soon. Have a great eva.
Go lad got tonut you Dan, Audio smoothatcho good My friend Fiven