THE LAST MAN STANDING-Alan R. Warren

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It was a case that tore the child's family apart, as well as dividing and terrifying the town as the days, then the months, and finally the years passed with no arrest. In two thousand and eight, the Illinois State Police reopened the case against Jack after receiving an email from Janet

Tessier about their mother's death poot deathbed confession. After the Illinois State Police interviewed Janet and learned that Jack had also been accused of raping their other sister, Jean Tessier, they reopened the case, but would reopen in the case solve the question of who killed Maria Ridoff and was

McCullough the killer. In the Last Man's Standing, true crime author Alan Warren writes an exacting detail about the kidnapping, murder, and subsequent investigations both in nineteen fifty seven and two thousand and eight that eventually led to the murder conviction of Jack McCullough. But the story doesn't stop there, as it delves into the years mcculluugh spent in prison and the efforts to have his conviction overturned. Was McCullough the

brutal killer of a little girl? Or was he the last man's standing when the justice system decided he needed to pay for the crime? You decide. The book they were featuring this evening is the Last Man Standing? Is Jack Daniel McCullough A true story? Alan Warren, Journalist and author Alan Warren, Welcome to the Back to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Alan R. Warren.

the story. Despite Charles Lachman's contention that this case was finally, after fifty five years or fifty plus years, finally this oldest cold case in American history finally solved. Tell us about that interview that you had with Charles Lockman with Footsteps in the snow.

I just didn't see it in the evidence. And over an hour, he just couldn't supply it. And so I ended up having a follow up interview with him, and he had some new points counterpoints, but it was still the same. He just had nothing hard. Nothing hard.

He married Jack's daughter. And he had heard that interview on because we are in K K and W Seattle, and that's actually where they're out of, just north of Seattle, and he heard that interview and he contacted me on Facebook and told me there was so much more to the case than I even would know about, and and that interested me, and we started talking back and forth, and he liked how I had that, you know, the conclusion of like, well, where's your evidence, Like what where's

the hard evidence, where's the where's the blood, where's the like there has to be more than that to put away a man for life. And he liked that attitude, so he uh started contributing things to me and telling me things about the case that I didn't know, and I ended up meeting a lot of his family and uh and eventually Jack, of course, and yeah, I went

from there. But that that convinced me even more about just how the whole family was around him and how they all supported him, and there wasn't a doubt in any of their minds.

from Casey Porter? But also when does he get released? And so it verifies your I guess idea that this person was innocent. Tell us about that timeline.

I just thought it was just about whose side you're on and who you believe in and who you love or who you don't. I wasn't getting any anything solid, So that one it just kind of kept on going for a while, and it took until about a year later, and I ended up I'm talking to a couple of the research people I know in Chicago, and it sounded like Jack was going to get he was going to come up for a stay or an overturn of his

of his conviction again. And from the rumor I had heard was that the state attorney was behind it hundred percent and was supporting it. So this was more than likely going to happen. And then that made me realize that, Wow, there's there's there's somebody in the justice system on the

other side that feels he was convict victed wrongly. And so that that put me right back on into the case again and dealing with Jack's family and and kind of going through the motions of him getting out and what he was going to do, and he was going to come back to Seattle and just the whole scenario, so that kind of I got involved in more in that part at that stage. And this is before and then when he finally got out in the spring of I guess it must have been sixteen yea and went

back to Seattle. North of Seattle, I had talked to him. I had talked to Casey and a few other family members, and they were quite comfortable with me if I wanted to write the story about Jack and the story about what had happened, and I was kind of so so on it. I really wanted to, but I wanted to know the truth. I had to know everything as it was.

and that's what you mean by no dirt. But after a while I realized he was still protecting his sister. He was still protecting his little sister right till the day she died, which was just recently. And so, you know,

I learned a lot this case. I learned so much about people, how they behave, how they interact to each other, and how a family that's really disconnected and going through a lot of trouble, how these things get taken way out of proportion and it you know, everybody, everybody suffers, and it just it ruins the whole, the whole family, and you know, you know, so he really did not want things about his sister primarily, and other things not

talked about. He did not want dirt or you know, basically, he didn't want trashy sort of journalism coming out of it. He wanted what happened, and his primary concern was not about him. His primary concern was people have to know that this can happen to you, anybody in the country can be doing nothing and you can end up in jail and go through a whole life like what he did and his family did for nothing. It can happen.

There's just don't think it can't happen to you. And that was something he talked about every single time I talked to him. He mentioned the no dirt and how this can happen to anybody over and over again.

case in American history. And here's why. Let's go back for those people that don't know this or can't remember the interview from twenty fourteen, in particulars, which would be most everyone, Let's talk about the particulars in winter for Snowfall nineteen fifty seven, and first introduce a little bit about sycamore set the stage for what happens with Kathy and her young friend eight years old. Personal take us back to nineteen fifty seven.

fifteen hundred it was to start. By the time they were there, I believe there was about seven thousand population, so pretty small town. And it started. It all started in the December of fifty seven. Two girlfriends, Maria Riddle and her best friend who was a year older than her that lived down the road. Her name was Kathy Siegmund. They were so excited because this was going to be the first day of snow and they wanted to go

outside and play. So they ran all the way home and wolfed down their dinner basically to get out of the house as soon as they could and get out in the snow and play. And you know, it was an innocent time, so you wouldn't think anything of it. We all did it. I'm not quite that old, but just ten years later, and that would not be an unusual thing for me to have done. You know. It's just what people did. And you didn't have to have people watch, you know, your parents didn't have to come

with you or anything. You could just run up and down the road or go to your neighbors and it was fairly free. We weren't in the same mental condition as we are now. So they went out and they were having a good time. In general. They were playing different games. One of them was to avoid being hit by this by the spotlight the car light, the headlights i should say, of a car when they were jumping in between the roads and just just silly little kid games and having a good time. So then a long

come a man and it was around six thirty. There's different times in there, and it's very I'm just gonna throw it out at six thirty pm, and he introduced himself as Johnny, and he was a really nice guy. What are you girls doing, and blah blah blah and all that. She guys want to go for a piggyback ride, and so they were lock all excited, and Kathy didn't want to go, so you know, little Maria did. And they went up and down and it was a lot

of fun and come back and exciting. And then Kathy still wouldn't go, and they were talking away, and then the guy he wanted he wanted to know if they liked dolls, and so Kathy piped up and said, yeah, I have my favorite doll. I'll go get him, get her for you. And she ran to her house, got the doll, come back and both Maria and this Johnny were gone. So that's you know, she went back to

Maria's house and there was nobody there. She went back home and she looked around and she couldn't find Maria anywhere. So then back to Maria's house and then eventually the Riddolphs got up and started searching and and everyone started looking. Now it was a bit of a slow start at

people looking. Maria had a reputation. She did run away a few other times before, and not run away to get away from the home, but she would go wondering and just do things and you know, go to different parks and wander and play by herself and then come home. And so there was kind of a mixed feeling about is she being kidnapped or is she just wandering around? So that's what took them a little bit of time

before they actually decided to get the cops involved. So that was kind of the setup of what happened that night.

it wasn't. Really The first real good identification that Kathy the Friend gave was really to the FBI, which was set up the next night, not that night, but the ones she give to the police were way different with the part of teeth and the and the hair and the size of them, and the age of of who she said did it was complete opposite of you know, Jack,

Jack McCulloch, who was later tried for the case. So but then it changed three times, and I included the whole FBI report because then you can see actually how she described him even differently, and different people that I had talked to in and around the family of the group said that Kathy was trying to find the person so badly that she was taking information from all of her friends, cops, everybody around her would be saying, are you sure he wasn't like this? Didn't he have this?

But he couldn't have been this if he didn't have that. Like they all had ideas, and they were all throwing it at her. And she would keep on adding and minusing parts of her identification to different police groups. Because she was dealing with the Sycamore Police, the Illinois State Police, as well as the Sheriff's office and the FBI.

with the case. So your your city, your state, and your sheriff's group that had all had part you know, in the investigation didn't get any access to this file.

and then and then her doll and stuff like that. I think that everything, well, I'm not sure. I think everything in that case, as far as what Lachman wrote was very circumstantial. Like I'm not sure if there's something that stuck out to you when you interviewed them that made you think there was something important in that.

was no verification. He didn't take it any step further, just said, well it looked like, well, it look like but did you check the footprint of this perpetrator, did you check the perpetrator that even the shoe size of the young girl? And then they found the doll in same almost the same area, but afterwards, but without any conclusions and without any follow up. Then that's what it sounds like to me. It's just the separate facts that

you could put together. But I don't know how you do necessarily well.

it's fine, she's been run away, she was down. They even went down to that park where she went away ran away to before they went all over it. So they were thinking they were going to solve it and find herself. So all of these little things that happened,

and no organization amongst any of it. And as you read through, all of a sudden, this brother runs into this one and they're just they start searching here, and there was just no There was nothing organized, there was nothing sealed, There was no direction in any of those searches. The first couple of nights were really a mess. It's

really a for all. And so the different pieces of evidence and the different things that came up, I think you take them and you write them down and you keep track of them, but none of them in themselves mean anything unless you can start connecting them. And the problem is the police didn't get on it in the framework to connect it. They didn't start thinking, oh, what about this? Are testing different people's shoes and feet, and they just sort of they didn't go far enough.

right away. Let's get to how Jack Daniel mccullaugh is not his real name. His given name, well that's a little complicated, but his given name is John Tessier. And so we introduced Allen Tessier, Jack McCullough's mother, and his sister, Janet Tessier, and we will talk about how those women become an important part, of course, the most important part in having Jack Daniel McCullough imprisoned. But at first his

name is John Tessier. Now police do an investigation, and of course they're talking to many suspects and getting many tips. Of course, they check out people close by, and that includes John Tessier right away. What did the police ask of the family and what is his alibi that eliminates him? And by this time the fb I were involved because I think maybe the child was abducted across state lines. So the FBI gets involved, and abduction and kidnapping is

their thing. So tell us a little bit about what happens with John tess why and what is the response and why is he eliminated as a suspect.

it sound like he was. And the biggest problem with him was he also had a smart, smart alec attitude. He had a fight with a teacher in school, he was caught shoplifting, he had stole the car, he had been caught drunk. He was a you know, a disturbance of a teenager at sixteen seventeen. So that was the

other thing, and that fact is true. But at that time, on that night, he had actually decided to join the army, and so he went to the at the base to get in to do his application, and then he had to do a physical and he also had to do the intake the entakement tests or whatever they give him. So he was doing that and this was in a

about an hour away in a suburb. And the biggest fact that the FBI had was Kathy Sigmund, Maria's friend, said the man named Johnny came up and started talking to them around six point fifteen six thirty, and when she went inside to get her doll and come back, it was between six forty five and seven. According to Kathy, the times kind of vary depending on who he talked to, but in general, between six thirty and seven pm, some man named Johnny took Maria riddoff from where they were

playing in front of their home. So the problem was at three minutes to seven, Jack McCullough made the phone call collect phone call to his mother saying that he was finny and wanted to see if she would give him a ride home so that he wouldn't have to take the bus. And so we know this and it's been checked on. So at six point fifty seven, he

made that phone call from an hour away. So if the timeframe was correct, with the girls and the few witnesses they had between six point thirty and seven, there's no possible way Jack could have been an hour and away in nineteen fifty seven and done it. You know, we didn't have that type of transportation. So the FBI himself then they interviewed him and between the combination of that they took him off. He was also given a lie detector test and he passed. So that's not yeah, sorry,

go ahead. I was gonna say, but that you know that that's only used for you. It never helps you. It seems like you know, you take those yeah, you take those light detector tests and if you fail or if you're on the edge and the police say that, see that shows you something to hide. And if they and if you'll pass it, then they turn around and say, well, it's not used in court, it doesn't mean anything.

had blonde hair and we'll see that. Look, it doesn't look like Jack as blonde hair in his head. But at the same time, she was not shown a photo of him because the FBI did not consider him a serious suspect based on their lie detective test and their investigation and questioning of him.

you cannot excuse the fact or you can't. I cannot be a nine year old at home knowing I've lived here all my nine life years, gone to school, and I know all my neighbors small town, and I know who they are are. And and if I saw them, I would say, oh, hey, Jack, I would know them, or I would, you know, at least know who they were.

So if this is someone I recognized, if this was Jack or John of the neighborhood, and he came up and said, you want rides, and you want to do this and all that stuff, I would know, Oh, well, you know it was Jack. Jack came and asked us for piggyback rides. It was just too inconvenient that she did not know who that Jack was. And two years later say, oh, I didn't get shown, you know, a picture in a lineup. I don't quite buy that.

sort of his family life. But what does Johnny Tessier do right after this recruitment? Where does he go and how does his life for the better? Well?

That was for quite a few years, and then he returned to the States and he decided to return to just north of Seattle. And when I had met him first, we had met at this beach north of Seattle, Edmunds, and he said, do you see that out there? Like looking at the ocean? And that was the first thing he said, was I saw this the very first time, and I knew this is where I wanted to live nowhere else. So when he came back from from his his service military service, he came right there because that's

where he wanted to be. So, you know, so that was all fairly good. He ended up getting a job as a police officer in self, just south of Seattle, a little bit north of Tacoma. I can't remember the little like Pewalla.

on the marriage. And so after all of these things we describe, and all of the happenings with his family and his mother dying, being very sick at the time, he wanted to honor her. So he wanted to go back to the name he would have had if none of this other stuff had come along since his English days when he was born to his original father and lived with jen At his mother Jeanie. Yeah, So in his mind he wanted to go back to the person he was.

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slash murder. Now, Allen, we were talking about a call that the newly married Jack McCullough newly newly named from John tests to Jack Daniel McCullough and his wife gets a call from Gene tests A saying what an evil man Jack was? What kind of evil is she referring to?

coming out with it. So I think that that's what you're referring to absolutely.

of it and doesn't agree with it. The thing is that what really strikes me is, you know, she was describing these events happening when she was fourteen and thirteen, and Jack being sixteen and seventeen, and him picking her up in his car, driving her to an apartment and all of his friends were there drinking, and then they all raped her, and they all did it several times, and then they finished, and he told her get dressed real roughly, and she put her clothes back on, and

he drove her back home, and then they had dinner. And you know, nineteen fifty seven, the family dinner, father, mother and all the kids sit around the table that was dinner table in America. This is how things were in fifty seven. Yeah, And if you didn't live that way, you were unusual. And I just could not imagine a fourteen year old girl. And you know, we were really

naive back then, in the fifties and sixties. I didn't know the kids today know so much more than we ever would have about any sexual issues, and so I couldn't imagine being raped from four or five guys over and over again all afternoon, and then coming home and being able to sit and have breakfast and or at dinner, and to have your mother and father, how is your

day at school? How is your day? And having that kind of conversation, and her to be able to sit there and to have the the strength, the moral strength for her to be able to pretend nothing happened. I really found that suspect. I you know, I don't know. I don't know how you feel about that, but I find it hard to believe that that kind of scenario happened.

did fool around with them. And again we're not so naive to think that this doesn't happen in families. That never happened in families, not in five to fifty seven or twenty eighteen. But the thing is, I think when I read her account in your book, sounded like exaggeration. It sounded like unlikely, unlikely scenarios to say that you could most of it could be verified. So I think that certainly something may have happened, but her account suffers

from exaggeration and implausibility. So is it all untrue? Some of it is?

or five years. There was never any complaints or problems, and it wasn't until years later, all of a sudden, when there was issues she came out and lashed out at him with this story. And I think, you know, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I think there was. Like I said, it's a very complex story, and I think something snapped in her and all of a sudden, he became the rapist instead of their benefits that they had together. And I say that for a lot of different reasons.

You know, she changed her story so many times, said where it was said, who the other guys were, and when it went to court, eventually it was just dismissed. There was just no evidence that made sense, nothing that lined up. And this is the kind of this is

the part that Jack wanted to stay away from. He wanted to protect his sister because I think in his mind, I think Jack thinks that his sister was there was something wrong with her mentally, there was an issue, And to this day, he's still trying to protect her, or was still trying to protect her. She died back in January of breast cancer. But he didn't want this out. He didn't want people talking about this because he said

that's all that they would focus on. It's all that we would be thinking about, and not about what's really wrong with the justice system and all that. So he was really anti getting into the conversation. But I will do add one thing for the people on the edge not sure what to think. She went through five other cases of being group raped and had brought them to the police and charged people with being raped, and every single one of them was dismissed. So, yeah, no, she's

not alive, and we have to be completely fair. And I'm not saying that they weren't. Maybe they were all true, and that's a terrible thing to happen. I don't know, but being from the fifties and sixties, it seems like I have I had very little access to find out what was true and what wasn't, but I'll do. But I will tell you it just seemed really there was something very not real about how she talked about it. And that's the only way I can leave it.

lied to the police. So this complicates the story. When one of the girls says on the deathbed and two of them say it on the deathbed, Mom said, one says she heard him say he did it, and the other one says he gave more detail as to he killed those two girls. He kidnapped the one he killed her. So as a result of that deathbed confession allegedly, what

did the sisters do. And as much as the police have had a hard time believing this woman before with the rape allegations, what happens as a result of these allegations.

first just to see. I think they wanted to get him convicted of that before they went to the next case, because with Maria Ridolf, I don't think they felt like

they had enough evidence and they weren't secure. They weren't feeling comfortable enough going for you know, a death penalty case, I think, so they decided to go it with it with the sister and the rape, which really disappointed the sister because they had promised her that they never would so and when they did go to court, they lost, they didn't win, so so that didn't work for them. But they did eventually take him to court and try to prosecute him and charge him for the kidnap of

Maria Ridolf and that was successful down the road. But you know, the uh, the confession is pretty it's another one of those complicated things. You know, the girls are not telling the exact truth in the sense that Jack was getting his his military checkup and his and his he was at the intake center. We know this for a fact. We have the evidence from the phone call, and we have the evidence from the guy they'd interviewed

him and was sitting with him. So no matter what, take away everything else, there's no way he can be at two places at the same time. So you know that that's a need your problem. And the other thing is his mother made him take the bus home. So when he got home, according to Jack, he met his friend and another child's brother and they looked. They went out hunting and searching for the girl, like with so

many other people were out doing it. That night, the parents both went out and what they had done was they boarded up all the back doors and made it so that nobody could get inside unless someone inside would let them in. So the girls were home all night alone in that house. And so when they testified, they said, yeah, he never came home, but the mother didn't lie. He did come home, but he wasn't at home, but he

was out looking with friends. So it was kind of like one of those it's the way you say it and it's not being exactly honest because none of them were being fully truthful. And plus, you know, you got the mother was sick with cancer, real bad and was dying for quite a while and was on heroin and would not know what she was saying. She was always dazed. She didn't recognize any of her family for weeks. Wow, she didn't even recognize didn't even recognize the daughters. She

didn't know who anybody was for weeks. I don't know how reliable that is.

What normally, I guess the defense would see is what the FBI had said and confirmed of this phone call at six forty seven, basically saying he couldn't be in Rockford forty miles away. And at the same time, so what does Clay Campbell do in terms of that timeline that seems to be established by the FBI and all the other evidence we just talked about, what do they do in that trial? To get that convictions.

for evidence. So you've just wiped out that whole FBI filed their timeline everything, so Clay changes the time zone by two hours, so he made everything offset so that it could be possible that Jack did it. And then he also tried to produce a witness saying that he saw that they saw Jack in town driving his car around that he had bought the one that apparently he

had raped his sister in. But the problem with that one was that he had actually sold the car, and we know he sold the car two days earlier from the paperwork, so he did not have a car, so so you know, anyway, but he changed the The other thing is, what's an interesting fact is how we know it couldn't have been two hours earlier, an hour earlier, or anytime earlier, just to confirm that. Kathy Segman, the other girl that was out with Maria Ridolph Plane, decided

to go in and get her doll. So she ran home, opened the door and went in and she was going through her dolls, and her mother asked what she's doing, and she had picked up a brand new doll that she had just got. Mother said, you're not going to go out and play with that. Take something older, like a raggiar doll. You just got that. So when the mother left, she took the good doll anyway, and she went out the back door. But because she went out the back door to avoid her mother, who did she

go through her father? Her father was sitting watching a Western television show. This television show airs six to seven pm in Chicago in nineteen fifty seven in December, so they only had two television channels, and so that confirms that between six and seven she got the doll, and that's when Maria went missing. So you can change it on it, but they see none of this gets given to the jury and you get rid of the FBI file.

All of a sudden, it's just Clay Campbell saying, we're estimating that she went missing between five and five and six. That's the problem, and that's that's you know, consider it corruption, consider it inefficiency, consider it police just trying to convict who they think did it, who in their hearts really believed did it, so they just push it along. I

don't know. I can't give those answers, but factually they changed the time, they eliminated the FBI file, and and then they even the even they did, they even avoided having the father testify. There there goes, there goes any sort of reasonable evidence. M hm.

to kill you. So of course doesn't matter laying awake all night or not. This guy had cleaned off the end of a toothbrush and when he was sleeping he jumped Jack and stabbed him right in the eye with it. And UH, and to make it worse, there was there was another another case too, where another inmate did the same thing and UH chased him down the stairs and stabbed him in the ear. You know, he gave me. UH. We had a day of all of the things that they had done to him on purpose, and I kind

of put in the kind of the major few. But he was he was under terror the whole time. And even when they stuck him in there and they would back, then they would stick you in the nut ward. You know, people that were unbalanced and stuff, and so at best his h cellmate would be someone that's not very balanced. Are they're in there for a problem. And there are there very violent, so he had a lot of problems. It was not a it was not a good good time for him.

him despite this incarceration. They are supportive and behind him, and he writes this handwritten letter. What happens with this letter as.

And you know, you know, you picture this seventy eight year old guy that's you know, so much has happened and so much time's passed now and you're you're, you know, nearing the end of your life and you just, you know, from your trailer home to you take the bus to the hospital to spend time with the wife that waited for you while you're in there. I can't I can't tell you how important that is, you know, for for people to realize that. And and the daughter in law.

I've also included her testimony to her note her letter to the Core and about how if he was a molester, she would have never known it. She's been with him since she was twelve, and there's just no way that that happened. And so I think that people have to realize that there's so much more to it.

was a plea bargain. But again, if we talk about dirt, this is some dirt. I would say to mar this guy's reputation, you know, a fourteen year old runaway. So anyway, let's get back to he's incarcerated, his family's waiting for him, his wife and stepdaughter waiting for him, and someone named a prosecutor, state attorney actually from Decab County gets involved with this note. Because the result of the note there is a domino effect. And then this state attorney named

Shmack is advocating for his release. Tell us about that.

So he took it to the court to have his case overturned, and he sort of really led the he led the group and the whole thing to get to get this case resolved, and and it worked. It took a while, but by by January seventeen, it was just about over. When I said, you don't get a state attorney coming forward saying yeah, this guy's been put in wrong. This guy didn't belong here. You know, that just doesn't happen. And we knew it wasn't going to be long once that happened.

read and write, studied a lot of history. He did a lot of things that a normal person wouldn't have that was put away for life. He didn't stop living, and I think that was his his his mentality. That was when when you asked him, you know, when were you planning on getting out? And he said, well, the last my last breath is when I'm free. It's when I'll get out. Then why would you study? And it's like, well, why wouldn't I. Why wouldn't I make myself better? Why

wouldn't I exercise my mind? Why wouldn't I. There's so much to learn and read. So he had that attitude that was very positive. It was very different than than when you meet him, because he is so kind of gruff, you know, you know some of the state. One of the first statements he made was the problem with America is they let a woman go to work.

we talked, and what's become of it. As far as the lawsuits, it's all for his kids. He's not interested in any of them. He doesn't think about them, and he's not involved other than I guess when they need him to talk or write something or testify. The only thing that he is interested in is getting the law fixed, getting the law changed, or getting some sort of cause, some sort of an effect of this not being able to happen to other people. And with that comes the corruption.

Clay Campally, Yeah, there's a lot of corruption in the system. The way it happened to him, the way it was manipulated, and the way that the evidence was you know, the FBI evidence was taken out and at the same time they altered the evidence that they had to make it, make a conviction. It's corruption. And to top it off, the three year statue of limitation in Chicago. In Illinois, nothing can happen to those police officers. So you've got this system made up where basically they wanted to put

away someone they didn't like. It was almost like the Steve Avery case in a sense, someone that you just get rid of that you really hate and don't like, not popular in the neighborhood. Put him away. Oh, just change a few documents here, put him away, and he's gone. And maybe you know, I can't speak for the mind of the cops. You know, I'm always supportive cops, So this is not a easy thing for me to say.

I'm not coming out bashing him. I think there's just people that have corruption, or there's people that have perhaps though that they really believed he did it, and they were just just making a few pushes to make sure he got put away. I can't you know, there's no way. You know, I can't say either way. But his main concern is to get the system fixed, that's all he wants.

way and fought against another prosecutor. I mean they upheld that conviction. He still persevered. So it's an interesting story of justice prevailing. But again it looks like somebody at least took information and had cooperation in making that evidence fit. If you're withholding information, it's the same as fabricating information. If you do both, then you really have a case for conspiracy. And I hope and I wish him the

best in his lawsuit. With this, I want to thank you very much Alan for coming on and talking about the last man standing. Is Jack Daniel McCullough a true story? This is a wild blue press release. Tell us a little bit how they might find more of your work and is there a website or Facebook page they might refer to?