THE KILLING GAME- Alan R. Warren

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several young girls. He would make the girl suffer until they passed out, then rape them, and when they came to he would beat them again before killing them. Alan R. Warren best selling True crime author and radio show host takes you through each step of the story in shocking detail, including numerous details from the trials and the appeals that have been going on for over twenty years while Alkala

sits on death row. The book they were featuring the Sevening is The Killing Game, The True story of Rodney Alcala, the game show Serial Killer, with my special guest, journalist and author and true crime podcaster Alan R. Warren. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for greeing this interview. Alan R.

I love writing books in this area because I want this to be brought to an attention of the public, which is something that I again I didn't know why. It wasn't he like he was a real serial killer, a mass murderer, And it's something you don't really hear about.

move back to Los Angeles. Tell about what the circumstances were that Rodney's mother had to move back to Los Angeles, and tell us a little bit about his personality and his experiences in high school in Los Angeles.

all the things that you know, good family did. They would go to the park, go to the zoo, just everything. I just I see nothing unusual other than the father leaving the mother. But that's that's something that's pretty common nowadays. So again you would think he was okay, you know. So the childhood up to that was pretty good.

went back to work for the army. He went back to Carolina and was doing his job as usual. And then sometime in nineteen sixty three, late sixty two, his mother was home in La cooking and all of a sudden, Rodney turned up at the door and she was totally shocked and what are you doing here? And he said, well, I went able I left. And she was like just traumatized, and she kind of thought, well, you have to turn yourself in. And it took her two days to get

her son to go. So she basically turned him in. And so what they did was they set him up for a routine, you know, psych evaluation and a few other things, and that's when they decided they actually discharged him and diagnosed him with antisocial personality disorder. It was just like it seemed like out of the blue, because

up to then, everybody thought he was doing fine. But one thing that his mother didn't know was when he went back after the funeral, his lead officer started to put in reports that, you know, before the funeral, he's very organized, a very efficient, a very good person to have on the team. After he was, you know, he would just be a mess. He was not doing a very good job. He would late all the time, he

was inefficient, he didn't seem to care. And I guess they give him a little bit of time to see if they could pull him out of his I guess depression, but it just never happened and he just left.

to follow them. They followed. He followed them back to Rodney's place and he saw them go into the building and he felt it was really suspicious, you know, so he went picked up the he went to a payphone, you know, something that we used to have back then, and he and he called the police and said, this is something going on. So the police decided to send a couple of people to check it out, and that was Camacho was one guy, and he did most of

the talking about it. And he said they approached the door, knocked on the door and just wanted to do a check, and he eventually opened and that's when they saw her all covered in blood and laying on the on the floor. So of course they pushed the door in and ran over to her. They they actually thought she was dead when they first saw her, and she actually moved and let out a little cough, so they were right away, of course, were concerned with her. But what happened was

Rodney just went out the back door. He just escaped, so you know, he got away with it, and he had he had raped her twice and beat her. She did survive, but you know, she was an eight year old, and what he had done was he'd actually picked her up when she was walking along the street in West Hollywood heading to school, and he promised it he would you take her to school. And then he had told her he had to stop at his place because he had to pick up something. And so that's where it

all happened. And so now I have to say afterwards, what happened was her family decided to move away from the States. They didn't want to live in the US anymore. It was too violent, and so they went back to Mexico.

who they were looking for. And so he was on the run, wasn't he.

Take it from there. What happens as a result of them recognizing mister Burger.

he had been working every summer. Actually, two of the girls that went to the that were camping and went to the post office and they got stuck there because it was pouring rain, and that's when they saw the picture and they thought, well, that looks like him, but it couldn't be. And when they went back to the camp, they told the dean and he kind of brushed it off, but inside he was suspicious. So he went to the post office himself and decided he was going to look

at this picture. And he spent a lot of time there, he said, somewhere from forty five minutes to an hour just looking at the picture and trying to figure if it was him or not. And he was suspicious enough that what he did was he called the number, the FBI number on the most wanted list, and they told him to say nothing and they would check it out, basically, So he went back to the camp said nothing. The next day they showed up and they actually run his

prints and it was Rodney A. Kella. So they called the LA Police Detectives that was in charge. And of course this is what really helped with the case as well, because it was Steve Odell and I just had his number, and of course we've talked to him several times about other cases and his own family and Black Daly, I remember, and and so I called him and said, well, tell

me what you know. And he was flown over to pick a Colla up and when he was bringing him back, even the unusual thing he said to him was saying, well, why did you do this or tell me about about the case? And Rodney turned around and said, I don't really want to talk about that. Was that was Rodney who I don't want to talk about him as if he was a third person. So he only was he using that other identity of John Berger. He seemed to

be believing he was that other person, John Berger. So that that was kind of a little bit unusual for Steve, you know, was he just setting up something to be considered infane. Was he doing this on purpose or did he really believe it? And of course Steve didn't believe him at all. He just uh he he just in his opinion. Uh, this guy was was just putting on

a show. He was just pretending. So they took him back and he uh but you see that's where it comes into where Talley and her family left and uh so they had nobody to testify against him, and they couldn't get them to come back. So he ended up taking a plea for this and it was a three year sentence for contributing to a minor you know, in in that in those days, that was kind of like

a molesting charge of a child. And he was let out within without within one year, right, so you know it was it was it's pretty uh it's really the start of of of his career killing and it just continued. He had the luck of the Irish. Just incredible.

was taken in. So he was he was very good at at his at his photography, and he must have been a very good student in the class itself, no issues at all, So he wasn't dumb and he was very good at what he did. He must have had some sort of how do you say, talent for taking pictures.

in Manhattan in June nineteen seventy one. So you talk about now that with this interview with Hodell, and he doesn't believe him, and they can't get the girl to come back because a family moved to Mexico. He gets to two point five years or you say, pardon me, he's out in the year. What does he do next? What's his next job and what's his next crime?

out on probation. So he's on probation, they had no idea that that's who it was, like they which is kind of really strange. I thought a strange irony there, because you've got La Times, you know, hires them, and he's not even they didn't even know. And so but another thing is why I say, was he had a lot of charisma. He must have had the looks that people liked at the time, and he had a way of doing things because he walks into his probation officer and says he wants to travel to New York and

they say, yeah, go ahead. So he would fly to New York and he would attack, rape and kill someone and come back. And he was doing this several times years later, and just something we kind of put together when we were finishing the book was really the thought that what he was doing was going to different cities. So he would pick New York because there was a mass killing going on. He would go to Seattle and kill kill girls while the Hillside Strangler was there. He

would go to Boston. He was picking cities that were there was some sort of serial killing going on that was making the news that was really popular. And I didn't get that initially when I was putting the book together. It was something we kind of put together later because of all the hits on his DNA in all these cities now, and so he was doing this on purpose

in his own mind. He was kind of picking places that were in the news already for somebody, like you know, like the Boston strangler, or the Hillside and the the New York killer at the time, it's slipping my mind. So he yeah, but he was picking things that were making the news.

talk about Julie Johnson as well. Tell us a little bit about what he's doing in nineteen seventy five and his method of operation.

they were doing. If they were girls, roller skating or whatever, and he would say, I need to take pictures of girls on skates and you could win and we could win, and that kind of theme was what he was doing. And some would run away and some would say sure, some would let him take pictures, and some like the thirty Julie Johnson, he would take to a park and then start taking pictures, and he would give them a

joint of pot kind of loosen them up. Then he would sort of tell them all, we should do one without a top, you know, and that sort of thing. And sometimes he would take them back to his house and say, oh, I need a piece of equipment. I've left a lens or something at home, and get them

to his place. So he had he had the basic kind of theme that he run and would would get them into an isolated location and that's where he would usually attack them or rape them then and it started leading into the torture where he would tie them up and start to punish them in a way, you know, everything from cutting parts of their body to burning parts of their body, and then they would pass out, he would rape them, they'd come to and then he would do it all over again. And that seemed to be

his general theme throughout the seventies with most of the girls. Now, this is something that why I said this thing earlier, All of the girls in LA you'll notice, we're very young, twelve thirteen, fifteen. The girls in New York were twenty three, thirty two. And so this is kind of what kind of ties it together, because he would look at the crime going on in that city and he would go

for that type of person. You see, the girls that were getting killed and raped in New York were all in their twenties and thirties, but he seemed to have a preference for teenage girls, young girls for himself. And even when he went to Seattle and the two girls they suspect there, again they're older. Because he was fitting into the he was copycatting in those cities to to get his pleasure. So it sort of changed. But most of the girls in LA all very young.

they saw. And so you know, for instance, the one that he did across from Marlon Brando's house at the Park, Jill Barnacle, she was nineteen, and so he actually he would have them on their knee and kind of spread them open facing in this case, you know, Marlon Brando's door, and lay them backwards, and then he would do the cutting. So he would cut parts of the of the around the anus and that area and put their hands in their fingers facing the vagina so that they're almost pointing

at themselves and head back. So laying back with the with the legs up, so it was right facing. He wanted them to see this image. For some reason, it became his regular calling. He started doing that with all of them. And and and that we don't really know exactly what he was trying to do. If he was trying to suggest something to the to the people that were going to discover the body, if he wanted them

to be shocked. It's kind of unusual. We don't really know what his what what his point was to this. It's kind of unusual. And and that that too, the Marlon Brandon one, it was really strange to the lead detective happened to be Philip Vnattter, you know from O. J. Simpson. There was a lot of interesting people involved in this case, you know. And and when he went to New York too. Ellen Hover was the god daughter of Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Junior, and her dad owned owned Cyril's in

Hollywood in the seventies. That was a huge place to go for all the stars. And they put a huge reward out for her the killer to find her or find where she was or who the killer was. And again see she was twenty three and in New York, so he was picking off people that were the right age at the time, so I guess they wouldn't suspect him. Maybe that was it. Maybe it was just the thought of as a different killer. Who knows.

getting the attention of the media was not hard. So what he was trying to get out of that, I'm not quite sure. Maybe it just excited him. Maybe that was the thrill.

this John Berger photographer. So they're looking for John Berger unbeknownst that there's these California murders. And like you say, he's a devious serial killer in that he tries to avoid detention and apprehension by mixing up the victims among you know, recognized serial killer operating in that city. So what does he do and who is on his trail? Finally, what's that one incident or event that gets police to close the uh, you know, the crowd him into a potential arrest.

given the most problem to the to the prosecutors. And really the Robin Samso case from seventy nine in Huntingdon Beach, now that was a really unusual set of circumstances because he basically got this twelve year old girl, and you know, he takes her up to a forest, a park almost, but it's not really popular, and he's got her on the side of the road and just then Dana Krappa, who is a forest ranger, drove by and saw them, saw not only him but the twelve year old girl

standing off the side of the road beside the car, and she kind of got a weird feeling, she said, but she didn't report it, and she just went to

the ranger camp and forgot it. And the next day she's driving by the same road going down into the park and she sees him with the same car and no girl, but this time he's covered in mud and what looked like blood, So she said it give her a creepy feeling again, but again she doesn't report it to anybody, and she goes back to camp and says nothing, so that was really strange why she was behaving this way.

And then a couple of days later, she's out with another ranger actually and there's other rangers in the area, and he kicks some looks like bones, animal bones at her. It freaked her out, but again nothing said, so, then she drives out by herself one night and she goes to the area to see if there's anything there, and she said later that that's when she saw bones of a human. Now she did again, she doesn't report this, and a couple of days later, this is going on

over a two week period. Another ranger finds the actual remains of this Robin Samso and but calls it in so later when they're questioning this ranger, Dana Krappa, they there is confusing because you know, first of all, she said she on the third time she went out she saw the bones. It wouldn't be bones only after two weeks,

you know, that was the first issue. The other is why did she not report three different events or even four really where she's seen human remains or she seen a suspicious guy with a girl then found remains and didn't report it. So, you know, that was a real problem because when it went to trial, you have someone that's you're witness to the to tying him to the body into that location, but you can't trust her, you can't believe in in how she's reporting and what she's saying,

So that kind of gives them a problem. And in fact, you know, it's been appealed three times now and two times it's been overturned, and both times it's been because of her testimony. You know, the second time especially because the California Court of a you know, Supreme Court of Appeal actually suggested that the police had hypnotized her into her testimony, and they overturned it on that. You know, I can't tell you how confusing and how long that's

been going on with that particular case. So again, you know, he was just convicted of that case, among four others, but it's already an appeal because again, all death row cases get into automatic appeal. And the problem is when I talked to the lead detector of that case too, and like he said, what he said wasn't very nice. He was saying, in his words exactly, it was, they're going to keep getting appealed in California as long as we have a liberal and then some swear words Supreme

Court for appeals. And I will say, you know, okay, so that's his opinion. But looking into it, it's true because sixty five of seventy three of the death row cases have been appealed have been successfully overturned with the California Supreme Court, so they tend to have some sort of a leaning of always turning over the case. And I really can't, for the life of me figure out why, because it's unusually high amount of cases get overturned in California. So that.

made a ruling. They argued, but the judge made a ruling and said, okay, well we can have her testimony read out at trial, but she doesn't have to be on the stand. And even I was reading that, going that sounds like that's not gonna somebody's going to have an issue with that, especially when it's it's death penalty, and especially with it seemed like a qualified attorney, right, so the vigorous defense and all that, So yeah, yeah, so crazy that even more complicates this story, doesn't it.

attention of of everybody. And during the trial processes of yes, you know of the three trials two thousand and twos where DNA gets accepted by the court, right, so all of a sudden they can start using DNA, and DNA starts sort of really helps to convict him and really the other four girls in that same twenty ten trial where really he was convicted of them really on just the DNA, which was something they never had originally. They you know, the good thing about California is they've always

done rape kits and kept them. They've never given them up. So as they work through all these old cases, they can do a DNA profile and they get a lot

of hits on people like Ekala. So you know he had some sort of charisma too, because back in that park case in Pasadena and seventy nine with Monica hote Hoyt you know again, a young girl teen years old, he picks up, takes up to the park, takes some pictures of her, gives us some dope, and gets her loosened up, and then he starts raping and attacking her

right in the park. A park ranger sees them from a distance, doesn't know what's going on, just sees this couple up there doing something, approaches them and she screams, you know that she wants to go home and she's being attacked and all that. So the guy takes takes them both back to the ranger office, calls it in, but he believes he believes Rodney of Kella. He doesn't believe the girl. And in his opinion, there's quite often you see young girls selling themselves to older guys in

the park. I mean, just everything he did, he could just charm his way through things. Just amazing, amazing how he.

And but people loved him. He was popular on the show, and Cheryl Bradshaw Shaw was the bachelorette and she chose him. And I don't know about you, but I kind of thought it was creepy. I thought his whole whole demeanor and when he's saying stuff like like what what she I think? She asked him. What if if he was a drama teacher and she was going to audition and you know, bachelor one, you're you're a dirty old man,

so take it. And he would be really creepy, you know, come on over here, I'm an old man, you know, and and I'm serving you for dinner. What's it like? And he said, see, I'm a I'm called a banana, and I look really good, you know, And so describe yourself more. And he goes, well, unpeel me, you know. And I thought it was creepy. I I don't know.

For me, it was really creepy. But she chose him, and so they stand at the end and they blow the kiss, and of course he gets they get a prize some weekends in some nice hotel with dinner and everything's paid for. But she said that when they went in the back and they were talking, he was way too strange a guy for her. She called him creepy. And in fact, she wouldn't even she wouldn't go on the free date in the free hotel and money and

anything with him. So there you go, I you know, but you know the thing is when you look at him, he had to look for the seventies. You know, the long hair and sideburns, and he wasn't bad looking. And he you know, he was smart enough. He could speak well. He he had finished at art school, and he had his degree, he worked at LA He had all these things going for him. But behind scenes, I guess he was a little bit too creepy.

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bundesque this attack. So tell us about Monique Hoyt and some of the incredible things she does to survive.

her mind, very charming. He was a nice man, good looking, and he picked her up, and he had, you know, a lot of photo equipment and and he said his real name, Rodney A. Cullis, So he didn't try to fake or anything, but he said to her he had to pick up some more equipment at his house and he wanted to take photos of her and all that, but it was actually getting too dark by the time they got there. It was starting to be dark, you know, it's February, And so she actually stayed the night with him,

and I guess nothing bad happened. And the next morning the two of them drove up to the mountains and it's about seventy five miles out of LA I think it was Riverside County if I remember right, And he parked the car and the two walked for about fifteen minutes into the forest, and that's when he started taking pictures.

And then he asked her to take off her clothes and he started having her pose in different positions and would she mind taking some nude ones, And so she removed all of her clothes and she let him take pictures. And then he grabbed her t shirt and pulled it up over her head and would hold it there. And then he started to to just to suffocate her really and she passed out and and he would and then he raped her and and she regained consciousness and then

uh uh the same sort of thing, you know. He h you know, would start to torture her and he was into that's when he started, like he bit her genitals and uh and her breasts and uh, you know, flipped her over. He sodomized her, and he he just went through. He just went through a torturous thing. And and uh, she would be quiet and and pretend she was asleep and and and then she started screaming. He would grab her and and stuff the shirt in the mouth and he just, uh, he just continued to choke

her and beat her, and she went unconscious again. And it just it was it was kind of I guess, it just seemed like endless amount of time and then she would beg to get out, and uh, it was just it was one of those long, long, terrible things

that happened. And and I guess so when they were driving back from the mountains to LA when he stopped at a gas station, he had to go use the bathroom, and uh, that's when she got out, ran to the motel next to the gas station and began screaming, and they called the police, and uh, and so you know, when the police showed up, you know, he's all he's already h taken off. He's run out to his car

and took off and fled, you know. And again, you know, you start you start thinking what what possessed him to do these sort of weird things to think he would get away with it, and I just you know, uh, you know, she even pointed, you know, he got pointed out in the in the in the lineup, and you know,

it's the same old thing. What did he do? He was on for marijuana possession at the time, and just they just I'm you know, I'm I'm can't quite remember everything, but you know he so what was he It's not like.

testify against them. So when we go through this numerous victims and this litany of crimes, basically he's learning to not trust anybody like this young girl because she uses this survival instinct to fool him into believing that, hey, I'd like to spend some time with you, and then she plans to escape when she gets a chance when he goes into the washroom. So later in his murders, you see that he makes sure that there are nobody

going to be testifying against them. Whatsoever you say in two thousand and two, they get breaks because they do have DNA and have a person like Steve O'Dell, this dedicated police officer that knew that you suspected that this guy was a serial killer just based on his experience and based on this method of operation and opposing. You talk about one of these crimes where he actually gets a bedroom lamp facing upwards and directed at the woman's vagina,

and so he just keeps progressing, progressingly worse. I guess more and more of his bizarre fantasy is being incorporated into the photography and the posing.

Tell us, as you do in the book, what that's like for authorities when they interview Rodney Alkella.

ear rings. He would focus on on on the set of ear rings they found in his locker in Seattle that belonged to Robin Samso and and he would he would just ask people, you know, if if if if they if they found any ear rings on the body, or if they saw any ear rings, and and he just sort of didn't have He was just kind of kind of scattered in all over the place, and he was almost happy. A strange person.

They find a couple of keys, they go to a storage unit, and then they find thousands of photographs, you say, twelve hundred photos, negatives and slides, and they find binoculars in his dats, and they find photography equipment maps, thirty five millimeter camera and so they have basically a kit that he has and they know that there's as you write in the book there they finally release one hundred photos or more of people that the FBI would like

to know if these people were victims, and if anybody can come forward any information to identify who these people are. He took that many photos of young girls, and as you say, even a lot of those of young boys. You talk about a bull whip, a black wig. He had binders, He had magazines called Young and Naked. He had rope, handcuffs. So we had everything that every serial

killer seems to have had. And we talked about you talk about in the book where he hits that woman with the tree branch, which again we've talked for three episodes now about Bundy and his influence. They could use any weapon, but they're using a tree branch at the same time that Bundy's is being famous and being deemed infamous. At trial when he's defending himself, obviously he doesn't do

a great job. But you say, with these appeals, with the death penalty, this is extended for over twenty years. Tell us about the court case where they're able to put four murders from California and then Robin Samso all together. Tell us about that.

it's just crazy. And so he ended up they combined all of the cases there he uh the robbery, rape, burglary of h Charlotte Lamb and Jill Parantu and Georgia Wicks did and Jill Barkle as well as Robin Samsung, so he has so he's being prospers it for all five and so it was pretty gruesome. They go through all the details and it's the same thing, you know. So he got to cross examine all of the people like he gets to cross examine the victims that have survived,

the families as well as himself. And it's just crazy because you know, could you imagine this guy just asking himself the questions like, you know, hours exactly, and he just went on and on and the thing is all that all that really came out of it. He was, like I said, he was focused totally on that sit of air rings because one of the things was Robin SAMSO's mother identified the air rings found in his locker

being to her daughter. He was trying to say it was him, they belonged to him, and he had and he actually had a picture from the dating game where he was on and they actually showed it on the on the to the jury and everybody a little flash and it wasn't even a half of a second of him sitting on there on the on the TV show and he's trying to say, we see there's my ear rings. Those ear rings are the same. This is no way they could compare that to a pair of earrings, and

that seemed to be the focus. Even he ignored the other four girls really and what he had done to them that were that he was on trap for. He just he didn't even bother questioning or really following through on those. It was all. It was just crazy. And of course he got convicted on every count and it didn't even take them two days to figure that out. But here we are again. You know, we're back up to the appeals because you know, it's another death penalty,

and it just keeps on going. This is the case that will never end. It really won't because I keep finding all these DNA matches and now he's up for twelve more is the latest I've heard. There's twelve more girls that they've tied him to with DNA.

implicate Alkala. So that's a good reason to throw something out, definitely. And the first moment we talked about too was the idea that all of his prior crimes could be admissible and relevant to the case at hand with Robin Samso

the first time around, so we can see that. And the other issue was that they need they would defense would always fight for the be able, the ability to be able to cross examine an actual witness, not a witness's testimony written read out to the jury, especially given how troublesome that that Dana Crapus testimony was in the

first place. You talk about a very very interesting thing that goes on in this trial though, with Robin SAMSO's grieving mother tell us what she does at trial, or at least what could have happened, and what she tells the media after the trial.

the day. And she had a gun in her purse, and she came into the court and she sat and she would put her hand into her purse and hold on to the gun because if he was going to get off again, or if he was you know, if he'd get away with it, or if something wasn't going to go the way she thought it should be, she was going to shoot him. She didn't want to go through this again. And you know, the original Samsul case I think was nineteen eighty, so this is twenty ten

and he's still getting appeals and going through then. You know, people don't realize, or maybe they do, but I just I think the court doesn't realize how difficult it is on family members like that, because so for thirty years, she's been going through interviews and she's been going through trials, and just think of thirty years of this and it just keeps going on and on and on, and you know,

she's at the point where she's had it. So she goes in with the gun every single day, and there was times where I guess she was so close to just pulling it out and shooting him, and in her mind she said I could do it. I was close enough to him, and I would do it. And he got convicted for the third time on that one and

four others. And so she came out of the courtroom and exposed her gun to the media and said that she had every intention of killing him and if he wasn't going to get convicted, she was going to do it. And that really surprised me, because how did she get into a courtroom in twenty ten without anybody. I thought they were all secured by that.

Do we want real justice? Do we want I mean, this is an obvious case of a man that's murdered several people, several we don't even know the number, and we just keep on retrying and retrying and retrying and going through all this kind appeals because you know, when you bring up things like like the Dana Crapper, you know, when her her testimonies is unstable, maybe it is, maybe it's not the most secure, but we know what he's done.

I don't know. I don't know if I have an answer, but I just know that this is this is we're dragging this out for all of the family for years and years and years and years and not really resolving anything.

I just mentioned a few minutes ago. So to me is not only is an inordinate amount of time, effort, and money, And that's what the problem is with the death penalty sentences, with these automatic Supreme court appeals, is that the incredible cost to counties and to states and the entire country these motions and appeals and expensive elaborate trials. So the death penalty itself creates even more of a cost and even more time delay and for justice to

be served. But I think what's interesting to me is that all these highly respected, trained jurist judges can go through these cases and yet make these seemingly obvious errors over and over again. You'd see in a lot of cases and a lot of books where the judges are particularly careful because they know that the threat of appeal is a possibility. And it seems like you didn't know

any better. It looks like a make work program in that there's a lot of work and there's a lot of emphasis on this person that most people would want to never see again, at least put in a cage, if not all the other people that would like to just see him really punished for what he did, because he is one of the most horrendous killers in the

history of killers. So I don't know what to say other than it seems particularly disturbing that everybody that's an expert in the law can make these errors over and over and over again, dragging the case. But more importantly, more importantly these victims. A person has to come when she's twenty six years old to the penalty phase for death penalty on the third go round of a trial,

and without DNA it wouldn't have had anything at all. Really, it seems incredible that there's to be that much effort put into this. And again it's in twenty sixteen. Tell us the status of how many you mentioned? Twelve more murders? So what's the actual count up that they can say this is pretty firm. And what's the status of Rodney o'calla and all his appeals in twenty.

become almost a they're working on the issue. They're trying to trying to so they do these things to create law and to create president and stuff, so they sort of it's gone outside of it. It doesn't matter about the participants in the crime. They're more concerned about the system. And that's sort of that's the problem because it's out of hand. Now you get you get people like this that are going to go through years and years every single day, and it seems like every month we hear

about more people tied to this guy. You know, we got two more girls, a thirteen year old and a seventeen year old from the late seventies in Seattle. You know that they actually had handed to the Hillside strangler, and now they know from DNA. It's not same as there's people in San Francisco, there's people in Wyoming, there's people in in I think there's six states. Now we have twelve the last I mean, since the book, there's

been twelve more hits of Rodney at College's DNA. So we've got seventeen people that he's not been convicted of, but his DNA has hit, and so we you know, more than likely, you know, he's definitely he's somehow involved in seventeen more murders, you know, I just I don't know.

We've got five eight murders that he's convicted of for sure, And like you were saying earlier, they've put over two hundred pictures now up trying to identify because he's taken pictures of them, and most of the pictures had to be shot photoshops, so you just see their face or their neck because a lot of them they were posed in sexual positions and not wearing any clothes. This is it's not looking good in how many he's It's like I said, it's just it's not going to end. This

is going to go on far past his death. I mean, he's away for life now, they say, But he keeps getting the death penal, and he keeps getting appeals. So he's got four more appeals right now. He got convicted of three of them in New York and three cases, and so now it's just endless. You can't even keep count.

In fact, I went back because it was so confusing, you know, I'm so busy, and then I keep going back to the when I was in the book doing the book, I had ended up changing all the titles and adding the victims and the year because there's just so many You go through it and you just you get confused. I'm still confused in the sense I sound

that way because there are so many cases. And I wanted to at least put the names of the victims and the years more than him, because I want people to read that name, the year and the age the person and kind of go through the story. And I could keep writing this, I had to just stop and we just had to put the book out because it's just coming everything. You know. I just can't tell you

how many people sent articles and how many newspapers. He just keeps getting just that a day from Darkness Radio just sent an article about I guess five more girls I hadn't even heard about now, or sus he's suspected of being involved. This is not going to end. He's seventy three now, he's just going to die in prison, and it's just going to keep going, you know. And it's one of those things that just I can't even

you know what I mean, it hasn't been. I can't even give you a feeling of this because it just it's not over. I think it's I think it's maybe half way over, and it's going to be one of those things in fifty years or something, when people in our business look back at it, he's just going to be like a a marked serial killer. It's like, Wow, he's got like fifty seven people he's killed. I think it's going to be something like that. It's just it's it's you can't grasp. Yeah, you can't grasp how much

he's really done. And he just never stopped. He was you know, he was one two one two one two. He just kept doing it and doing it. And all of those people he took pictures on it. You got it. He's had them naked, He's had them in some sort of place where he could have them naked and take pictures. You know, there isn't any that he didn't assault. I mean, at this point, when you look at those pictures of these girls and boys, mainly girls, do you think there's

any that he didn't attack? I you know what I mean, And that's it sounds I guess I sound kind of defeated on that, because that's how I was feeling by the bye. By going through all this and talking to all these people and getting involved, I feel like this is not ended and not complete.

and wants to resolve them. He doesn't. You know, it doesn't end just because you get new cases, you know, and the years go by, and then you actually get to go pick him up and bring him back and extradite him into the into it and it's all I don't know. The frustration level must be incredible when you when you have the person and you can't get the

people to testify, you know, So here you go. You've got You've got this man that's just going around killing and killing and raping and doing all these things continuously, and you know it. And he lives in your in your city. I mean, how you know. I just can't explain the frustration that that. He couldn't describe it accurately enough, I think, because it's just it becomes you know, he's

a very good detective, and it become very personal. Could you imagine that situation where then you take him in and he gets out in a year and he's on probation, and then all these other bodies just keep coming and coming and coming in. Nothing, nothing really gets resolved. I just couldn't imagine. I can't describe how he how he must have felt. And it's got to be something that stays with you forever, even to this day, even with all the other things going on in his life and

now that he's retired. Could you imagine it must just be one of those things where you think about when you go to bed and you think about when you get up every single day. It's there. And that's what I mean with the system, even when you know the case and you know that we just know that he's guilty, have so many killings, so many torturous rapes that he's just he's just and you know, and I hate to say it, but he acts like it's a social affair

at the trials. You can see some of the things, some of the tapes on on online now and he acts like he's at a party.

They can never break away because they have to keep on doing these things. Could you imagine more of his trials coming up, and still family members going what it would be like, like you spend your whole life, you talk about some of the girls, like tell you that's come back, and you think her whole life is going to be this case defines her life because everything is about this case, and it's right. It's not right because there's so much more to a person's life than that, And I think that's.

al Kala defending himself twice at trial. And so this entire thing is just a grim reminder of what justice is and what it isn't. In America and everywhere else, they can talk about justice, but justice has never had because no one really will be able to be fully satisfied when he gets an automatic appeal. And what people think is a comfortable treatment. It may not be comfortable

in that jail cell. But when you see somebody enjoying themselves at trial after they've certainly enjoyed themselves killing one of their loved ones, it is unimaginable for me, even though I cover these things every week, that same sense.

But that is why I really think that people, if they have any kind of feelings for the perpetrator, they at least need to have I would say a lot more feeling for the victims and the victims family before we start feeling any sympathy and start banging our pounding our fists about criminals rights. Again, I won't get into that subject here being in Canada, but you know that you have an even more disgusting system Lots of times when we see these kinds of killers. But again, this

is a very unique killer. Rodney Alcala will definitely go down into the legion of infamous serial killers. I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about the killing game, the true story of Rodney Alcala, the game show serial killer. Alan R. Warren, Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about the co host of House of Mystery and I had the great pressure of being on your program before, and you have a couple two crime books previously that we've talked about here.

Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about House a Mystery and how they can access that and when it's on, and tell us a little bit more about where they might find out about your other work.

then serial Killers around the World Volume one Australia. It was me as well part of a series. And yeah, so it's it's it's a lot of work and the House of Mystery has really really grown. We have five people there now. We have a true crime report from commentary from Stephen Lampley who's an author and then we have Julie sab Back doing Paranormal, and we have Michael

Butterfield doing Zodiac. He was one of the one of the guys that was consulted on the new A and E series that's out, so he's doing like a little Zodiac report. And we have joe Yusinski from Miami Professor and he does the conspiracy countdown the top three every week.

up that they couldn't even show it. They had to do closed caskets and in some cases the at the funeral homes they said, we just can't put this body back together, so they got to. So I just want people to think about that and realize how much he really put these girls through before their death, and and and I included as many autopsy reports as I could find that you have the autopsy report saying that almost all of the torture, part, the cutting, the burning, and

everything happened while they were still alive. That's how we know that he would torture them and keep torturing them while they were still alive. He didn't do all this mutilation after the death. So I just want that to

absorb to people how much he put people through. And that's sort of why I have a hard opinion of him, as well as the system of as much as I appreciate a system where you have due process and you can get a lawyer or all that, I appreciate that, and we need to have some sort of balance because you've got people like Rodney A. Colla who's tortured and mutilated people while there's still alive and then kill them and you can't you can't even take them and you

can't you can't even make them look appropriate to have an open casket. So that so people really think about that and think about the kind of person he was and how much he's really getting away with.

I'm not really saying I have an answer, but there has to be something better.

remember the woman's name, the young girl's name. However, you say, in light of everything he did, a parole board granted him parole in short order, thirty four months, I believe, so in short order he was released from that year he had to do minimum to life, so thirty four

less than three years he was out. But when you consider what he did and then when you consider if he could do that his potential, that's that's a disturbing thing when we have to follow precedent and say that this crime, even though it's beyond comprehension, has to be lumped in with a similar crime because of the precedent, and then somehow we just forget the details of what actually he was capable of.

I don't. I don't see that. I see I see it as it's just as torturous for the for the for all the members of the at least, and we drag it out for their whole life.

this particular case, what would we know. So thank God for DNA and those advances, because not only in this case as it tell us about victims we had no idea about, but in other cases it's crucial to get a conviction, which is under all the circumstances and all the you know, vigorous defense and all the rights that criminals enjoy, it's hard to get a conviction, it really is.

This is a story that shows you how hard it is to conviction for one of the most horrible serial killers and one of the most again blatant and obvious of serial killers. Yeah, it's it's a cautionary tale without I guess maybe not your intent. Anyway, I want to thank you very much Alan for coming on and talking about the Killing Game, the true story of Rodney Olkaala The game show serial Killer. Thank you very much, Alan, you have a great evening and hope talk to you again real soon.