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You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The night Stalker VTK every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Today.
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right free. Add ZipRecruiter dot com, slash murder. That's ZipRecruiter dot com, slash murder, m u r d R ZipRecruiter dot com slash murder. Beachgoers usually dread riptides and rainy days, but from nineteen seventy four to nineteen eighty three, a different fear gripped in New Jersey Shore, young women were disappearing. Their abductor was Richard Biegenwald, a man released for good behavior after serving seventeen years in prison for murder and
spending time in a psychiatric facility. Police arrested him on suspicion of rape, and it was not until they connected him to a woman's death in Asbury Park that he finally stopped his rampage. Investigators later linked him to nine murders and convicted him of five. Former New Jersey State Trooper John O'Rourke narrates the chilling story of the Jersey
Shore thrill Killer. The book that we're featuring this evening is The Jersey Shore thrill Killer Richard Biegenwald with my special guest, retiredy New Jersey State trooper and author John E. O'Rourke. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. John O'Rourke.
Well, thank you, Dan for having me on.
Thank you so much for bringing us this incredible tale. Let's talk about Let's talk about how you came to be involved with this story and why you felt it you were compelled to write The Jersey Shore threll Killer.
Well, the writing of this story actually has its origins in my first two books I started writing, and they were based on the New Jersey State Police troopers that died in a line of duty. And after they came out, I was having lunch with a colleague and a mentor of mine and I had mentioned that, you know, I had the desire to write additional books. The first two books were kind of like I didn't wasn't really looking
at myself as an author. I just wanted to pay tribute to the troopers who died in a line of duty. And the publisher just basically sliced the two books into the one book into two. So it was it was it was a project that not even consider myself an author at the time, but I had, you know, doing that and doing the research. I actually had the itch to write more and I'm a history book and I saw I said to him, I said, you know, I want to write about history, and he said, you can't
do that, and I was like, well why not. He says, well, you know, it's hard to break into the true crime uh genre, and you did it a publisher and now you need to stay in that until you know your self established. So that kind of put me on me on the path to true crime. I never really looked when I was writing a book of that being true crime, because it was just more of yeah, it was crime that you know, took a lot of the troopers' lives. But I didn't really again, you got it, I wasn't
thinking in terms of an author at that time. I was kind of glean So it took me a while and it's okay, So I need to break into, you know, to break in, I got actually research on what I'm going to do next. So I started looking at serial killers, and my research revealed that every time I would look at a book on serial killers, the name Richard Biegenwold would would pop up. Sometimes it would be just a line or two, other times it would be a paragraph or so, and then several other times it would be
a couple of pages. So I looked into that and said, okay, he's obviously someone that's always he's noteworthy, he's been mentioned, has anyone written about it? And then you know that was the final to check off. No one had written about it. So I said, okay, I'm going to start researching about Richard Biegenwald and b the narrative manuscript together to that.
Now you take us in the book to December eighteenth and nineteen fifty eight, and tell me if I'm mispronouncing this. It's Bayonne, New Jersey baone correct, Yes, Bayonne, okay, in New Jersey, Upper New York Bay. And one of the notable things is the Bayonne Bridge ferries transporting people across the waterrays into New York, Staten Island and New Jersey. And this is of course Christmas time, in Christmas time in the city of by Own. And you say, you talk of the time that America was in Nasau was
just created that year President Eisenhower was in power. And you profile a person named Stephen Sladowski, a forty seven year old with the wife and four kids. Tell us who Stephen Sladowski is and about his other business other than being a prosecutor.
Well, Stephen Sladowski was a notable member of the city of Bayone. He was a prosecutor, and he was an attorney in town, and he ended up purchasing a small
business in town. So what I what I tried to do is when you had mentioned that when I opened the book and I got the Upper New York Bay with the Bayone Bridge in the backg I kind of because this story kind of plays out like almost like a movie, So I kind of laid out the narrative kind of so you can put a visual on the environment that was taking place at the time, so you can you can put in context what what it was like in Bayonne at the time and the events that
were unfolding when mister Sadowski lived there, and so I opened it up. He and his wife they were getting to the point he was very successful in town, and they were getting to the point in their life that they were thinking about slowing down a little bit. So they opened up a business, thinking that that would probably be the family business once he gave up as a prosecutor and started slowing down with his law firm, and it was. It was a pretty successful business that they had.
And that was a place that when we first or introduced to Richard Bieganwalters, he he targets that place. So I kind of place, if you will a visual try to painting in words of Sladowski on that side of the river and then across the kill van call you got this other person. And I don't know if I want to get if I'm getting ahead of myself with with your outline. Uh, But then you know, with Richard Biganwald, So I kind of opened it up on that day with the two are doing in the let's talk.
Let's talk about Sladowski and his family and this and this store. And you talked about this being this being a prominent person and being a prosecutor and a friend and he's living in a building and there's a person named Capusta upstairs that's the the landlord of this building and has known him for years. So talk about what happens in the store. Then we can introduce Uh began Wald and like you say, a completely different background to say the least yep.
So Stephen Slatowski went about his day. It was coming up on the holiday season, so there was a lot of decorations and a lot of preparations for the upcoming holiday spiritual high friends were popping in saying hello, and he was going about his day. And then later on that evening, as they were getting ready to close up, there was only another his business partner of another attorney was in the store with him. Uh, and he did.
They were unaware that Richard big Wald and his accomplished were outside casing the place, so once the business owner had left, they came in and they robbed the place. However, I think I I think I make it clear in the narrative that it was under the guise of a robbery. I don't know if if Richard bigger Wald was was actually aware of his emotional motives at that point, but it was more of a killing in mind than an
actual robbery. I think he had the desire for a killing, and for some reason, Steven Slodowski was the person that he was going to to kill. Uh. Some people speculate, although there's no proof to it, that he had once prosecuted a case that Richard Bingerwald was involved in. I had through my research I found nothing. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's a long time ago, but for whatever reason, Richard Bgerwald targeted Slodowski as his first victim.
Let's talk about the partnership that does end up in the murder of Sladowski. And you also talk about him being shot in the face and murdered in his store, and then the getaway driver Spornraft, Jimmy Spornoff, and when they got into the car there was shots fired back at the store. He also mentioned the idea that there was. It seemed that he left the cash register alone but took the man's wallet. And so if robbery was the motive,
then it seemed to be not really executed. And given that that was the most motive for the murder in itself, tell us about this partnership between Jimmy Spornoff and began Wald. How they met and what were they looking for that evening? Tell us a little bit about their partnership.
Well, that's that's interesting. That's an interesting part that I came across during my research. I actually was able to reach out and identify James spawn Rocks where he was living. I reached out to him and he was willing to actually get interviewed for the book. So the accounts of that night were taken right from uh Sparunroff himself, keeping in mind that there is probably some revisionist history on his part or or or misremembering on his part. They met.
He was a city kid, there was they were Staten Island kids. They met. It was a small circle of friends in Staten, Ireland he met Uh. He said he was more of a colleague than a friend. But the narrative and and and obviously the research indicated that they were a little bit more than colleagues. They were hanging out together on a on a regular basis. So I think that was James's way of kind of distancing himself to the event that actually took place on the December night.
But bigan Waldh was a was a bright kid. He he was not large and statute. I think he was about five eight, and somehow him in and Sparanwoff began hanging out. He was as small you look at the illustrations the pictures in the book, Sparnawolf was a small, kind of a nerdy looking kid with with thick you know, glasses. However he was he was. He was a tough city boy.
One pitch actually illustrates when with the one guy touching his arm out you can see the anger in in Sprunoff's uh face, So they were kind of suited for one another. I think spru Sprunoff was aware of the the criminal activity that Big World was was wanted to take part in, and his actions prepping for the burglary with acquiring a shotgun, throwing that shotgun the barrel of it, turning it into a sort of shotgun underneath a bridge in Staten Island. He certainly was aware of what they
were about to do. I don't think he was aware that Big World was going to kill the guy. I think he thought they were going to rob the place, So I do think that he is he It was it was shocking to see that he actually had come out of the store shooting and he had killed the guy.
However, however, though the regardless of when you say that that he didn't realize it was going to be a murder, you write that he was shocked when Beigenwald showed him the newspaper and then the headlines about murder, and then he said, listen, I didn't do anything, and Biegenwald said, you're in the same boat as me. Now at that point though, you would think that maybe he would have
his regrets of assisting Beigenwald. But what happens with this partnership after this near getaway you talk about shooting up the store, they get away on this ferry, they dumped the automobile despite witnesses seeing the car and getting the license plate number and having a description of Beigenwald as well. What do this duo do together and what do they plan and what is born Roth's contribution to it?
Well, following the following day when when when you know, when that incident hits the paper, uh spun off his approach with Big World and just exactly what you said, you know, he he's like, oh, I had nothing to do with this, and and big a World like, no, you're you're you're you're in it. Just like cong in it. They the old saying is not what you did that gets you, you know, gets you in trouble, although it's
what you do about what you did. If he would have maybe turned himself and saying, hey, listen, I drove this guy to the store and I thought he's going to put back the cigarettes, it would have been a pretty weak defense because he helped them, you know, do the shotgun. But if if you would have stepped away from it and saying, hey, I had no idea he was going to, you know, shoot the guy, he might have got a less of sentence. But he chose to flee.
They they so they fled to south, traversing the turnpike and then went into the state of Maryland. And it's in the state of Maryland that this crime spray if you will, continues. They are observed by a local police officer, Officer Hymen of the Salisbury Police I believe I'm pronouncing that correct, sees them pulling into town. They committed a minor motor vehicle fraction, but I'm sure their reaction to his presence is probably also what stimulated him to stop
the motor vehicle. Upon his approach, Big World fired around at the officer shoot actually hitting him in the face with the round. Hyman fired six shots back while retreating, but missed all six, and then they fled from there. That's when a police broadcast across the state of Maryland was sent what we call in law enforcement a boat we'll be on the lookout for, with the description of the vehicle and the two guys, and that's how they get stopped minutes later by a Maryland State trooper Carol
Sermon I believe he pronounced his name. He stops him, and it's a pretty good account. On James Brunoff's interview on what actually transpired, he actually he actually said that these two were equally equally crazy. Bigle World was crazy, and so with the trooper, they were basically doing a shootout standing face to face with one another. So a shootout ensued, with the trooper getting hit in the leg
and him shooting began. Wall hit hint, striking him in the face, but it grazed, but it was enough to send him back inside the car and causing the card to going to drive, and they ran off into a ditch, and that's when the trooper approached, kicked the gun away and took both of them under arrest. According to sprawn Off, he was just an innocent victim in this. In the shootout, Uh, he didn't. He didn't partake in terms of he didn't he didn't have a weaponon, so he didn't. He didn't shoot.
But you know, his his account of it was, you know, he was trapped in this in this big world world, bigger world world. That's a tongue twister, and he couldn't get out of it, and it was just it was just it was just unfolding before him. So you know, the decisions you make. He was now living by these decisions. But that's how they were actually apprehended after the Sldowski get killing.
Yeah, it's incredible, the too true reaction. He grazed the first trooper's face and so it wasn't fatal and then and then went on. And it's interesting Trooper Sermon basically recognized that there was that he had seen the suspects and then organized a roadblock and then there was the shootout between them. What's interesting we didn't talk about is the preparation that these guys did beforehand in terms of
something like this happening. And you take the reader right into the horror that that this trooper, knowing that these guys are these murder suspects, were coming up to that vehicle. What was the preparation in terms of the shotgun and the jacket that again, this innocent Jimmy Spornoff claimed, But what did he do in preparation for some kind of confrontation with police?
Well, you're right, and yeah, I I didn't mention that in terms of the prep that they did for the robbery. And then after they actually had a bag of shotgun shells, they had the sword that they used to to bring the shotgun barrel down, to make his sawed off so he can put it onto a raincoat, a blue raincoat. And what they did is they sliced in the pocket, They cut the pocket so he can have his hand on the shotgun underneath the long raincoat as he went
into the store or when he was walking. And in addition to that, they took bigger oehead, reddish reddish hair, and they actually put his hair with almost like shoe polish, made his hair black, running the shoe polish through his hair to make his hair black. So when he couldn't you know if they were going to identify it would be his with black hair. And so that that kit that they had, that bag that I told you mentioned also had a flashlight in there and had some other
map and it had some other things. So it was quite clear in terms of we, you know, we'd like to use the word motive in what what Big and Wold's motive was. And and Spine Walf as well. He you know, they were prepping this together. They brought the shotgun, uh to a point where you can get it under a raincoat. Spinoff supplied most of the equipment to him, so he was in it.
He was in it deep.
Whether he knew Big War was going to kill the guy or not, he certainly knew that they were. They were not going in there to uh, you know, get a pack of cigarettes. They were they were going to rob the place. And when they when he chose to flee with Big and Wald, he knew he knew Big and Wald. He he talked about the anger and the bizarre actions that Big and Wald had when they were sitting one one night, just sitting with a girl after they had a bottle of one. And I mentioned about
this in the in the book as well. To kind of get to read it to understand who who Big World was and and the environment that he was living at the time, which which actually made bigger Wald, who he was, just out of the blue went off and slapped this woman in the face, of course, in spine off to leave. He says he left because of he was, you know, he was disgusted by He's probably also left because he was in fear of Bigger World. So he was he was, He got he got sucked in, and
he just he couldn't get out. At first he didn't want to get out, and then when he couldn't get out, he didn't. He just couldn't.
You talked about both of these guys in Maryland, and they both waive extradition and they're transported back to New Jersey. Assistant Prosecutor Joseph Oakes is at Beyond Police headquarters for these interviews and from it comes to detailed accounts of what transpired. So they both have something to say about what happened. What's the difference in sort of the tone of their accounts to police?
Oh, well, just like I said, big O Wald, big O Wald was, you know, was readily you know, he did. There's a's a two or three page, if not longer, a statement of that night. So he spoke openly about what he did. H. He was clear on on his actions. He was clear on what what he uh, what he was out to do, other than the fact that you know, fall in short of saying that he he was he was out to murder this this guy Swardowski. He uh
implicated Sprunoff in all the actions. Kind of converse that with James Sprunoff's account uh to the prosecutor, he uh he tried to lessen his involvement in it, even though he's the one that supplied the gun, even though he's the one who supplied the raincoat. His his defense was he didn't realize that he was going to take it
to the next level. He didn't realize that he was going to be the getaway driver, which which is kind of is kind of thin because you know, he claims he didn't have a license, but he's the one that actually was behind the steering wheel when Bigo was in the store, and he's also the one that drove away
from the scene, and he did it quite well. So he tried to make make the the the least of what what he did and tried to sprawn off in his account, but it was quite clear, and they were very cooperative on how how they prepped for the robbery, what they did, where they were, how Big Wall put on the raincoat, slipped the shotgun, the sort of shotgun underneath the raincoat as he walked into the store, putting on his hat as he walked up the steps, how
he slid behind the driver's wheel, so he was. He was cooperative, and they laid it out really well on what they actually did and how that crime unfolded. The interesting thing, I don't know if you have that and you know it's the interesting part of that. I mentioned a young kid. There was a group of kids that actually saw the getaway and being will come out of the store. And the one kid I think his name was Kevin McLaughlin. My name is McLaughlin. I don't recall
what his first name was. He is the one that held Stephen Slodowski in his arms. He was only eighteen years old when he took his last breath. That incident left such an indelible mark on him that he ended up going into the priesthood. I met him at one of my book signings a year or so after I wrote the book. So that's a pretty it's a pretty good story. It just it was the event was impactful, and it didn't just impact the Slodowski family.
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Now we were talking about Richard Beganwald, and they have spoken to authorities and they realized the crimes that they these guys committed. Maybe they don't know the motive, but authorities, as you're right, look into the life of Richard Beganwald. And so tell us about his parents, Albert and Sally, and tell him about and tell our audience about his strange background and life.
No, Albert and Sally were you know, class blue collar workers. They had, you know, Richard bigan Wald. He was born and from a very early age he started his behavior ified as bizarre. He would be playing on the on the on the floor, and then all of a sudden he'd stop and almost like like the tending that he's he's you know, he stopped in time and he wouldn't move. And that behavior continued. As the older he got, the
more troubling, if you will. His his behavior became so much so that they they brought him to a doctor and they this is this is the point where my research is kind of it's it's kind of all over the place in terms of on the medical diagnosis of what he actually had. The one account that says he had he was schizophrenic, which kind of is in line with that bizarre body movement that that falls in line
with someone who's a schizophrenic. That's part of what they do as a as a kid, he was fascinated with with fire, he was, which is another hallmark of of this type of individual who's going to go on to the you know, anti social disorder. He was was fascinated with death, death of animals, and he was involved doing a couple of those things growing up. And so he was he was from a very early age. He was in and out of doctor's offices and hospitals because of
this behavior. What I wasn't able to determine or discover in my research is is what treatment was really afforded to him. There's no evidence that even though one account has him as a schizophrenic, the other one has you know, anti social disorder clearly classifying his behavior is bizarre and obviously voting on troubling since he set his sad try to set his house on fire when he was a
small toddler. But in terms of medicational medication was different back in the fifties, but there was still medication available. I don't see anything where he was actually treated for his for his clear mental disorder whatever that would be classified as today. He was, you know, he was in the Children's psychiatric Hospital of Auckland County for a while. He went to a New York Delville hospital. He was
there when he was a kid. They would give him electric shock treatment, which is a yeah, it sounds, it sounds cruel, kind of really is cool. But my research indicated that was a common practice. I believe to some extent it is even used today in trying to treat individuals who have this type of mental disorder. Uh. He had recounted that these these electric shock treatments, they would I guess from either the war, either water or sweat,
or a combination of both. He would be cold in between the treatments, and he recounted that he would used to have to urinate himself, uh, to try to try to keep himself warm. So clearly there's some there's some problems going on there and it's and it's exacerbated by the treatment that that he was receiving at one point when he when he becomes a teenager. Uh, they put him into the State School for Boys, which is up in Warwick, New York, which is basically a school for
troubled youth. And he was there for a while.
And uh.
Which was unique about Richie big Water and I mentioned it when later on, I guess what we'll talk about it is that he was very intelligent. His defense attorney years later would classify him as brilliant and we'll probably one of the smartest people he had. He said, his i Q was, it was it was extremely high. He had this way to really identify when when he first got into the Trouble School for Boys, he acted out, actually tried to tried to escape, getting a group of
people and uh, they actually tried to escape. But he realized he was he wasn't going to get out that way. He became a model student, started complying and understanding bigger world and the research that would unfold in this In this process to write this book, he identified that as Okay, this is how i want to get out of here. This is how I'm going to get out of here. Good behavior played up act the role, and they're going
to release me. And they did, and he went. He went into the main mainstream school system where he eventually dropped out. So that's foreshadowing on what was going to happen years later when he was behind doors.
You're right, he talks about we get back to the trial, because there is no trial, but there's guilty pleas from these guys that have already signed extensive statements of their culpability June fifteenth, nineteen fifty nine. So Jimmy gets twenty five to thirty years, both eligible for parole, and as you say, Bigenwald, it doesn't adjust immediately, but at some point, because this where he is, there's a riot even at the prison. So both of these guys try to mind
their own business. Once they go to prison. They're both separated. They don't want to have anything to do with each other, apparently, but they both get the idea, but especially Beiganwald finally gets the idea that maybe if he behaves himself, he'll get out on parole, and he does in sixteen years. So now he's a free man and he's living, as you write, at his mom's in Staten Island June twenty fourth, nineteen seventy five. And he gets some work painting houses
and helping in automotive shops. He's now more well read and more mature. He's a really bright guy. And then you talk about he meets someone named Diane. Tell us about this meeting, who is she, how old is she? And tell us more about this relationship as it progresses.
Diane bigger Wald is an interesting character. She is very attractive. She's a bigger woman in height wise, she's probably his height, if not a little bit taller than him, but very attractive. She becomes enthralled by the world and understanding what was going to take place with his with his thrilled killings with women. He had a sense about him. I I I still can't rep my my my head around what
that was. He was an average looking guy. He had he had piercing blue eyes, and he had reddish hair, but there was something about his persona, his personality, his way to interactle that made him made him very welcome to the opposite sex. So she became smitten with him, and they began dating. Now, there is some drug use in Bigger World's life, and she although there's no there's no evidence that that has her doing drugs, but there's
no evidence that says that she wasn't. And she was clearly aware of the the world that he was now operating in. So I'm sure his his lifestyle was somewhat attractive to her as well. But they ended up dating, and they ended up getting getting married. It's a he's the word bizarre. I don't want to use the word too much, but it's a bizarre relationship. As time goes on, he actually introduces a girlfriend h to the relationship. But I don't want to get I don't know where you
are with your notes. I don't know if I want to get ahead of that. If you want to talk about what unfolded soon as he got out of.
Let yeah, let's talk about the Diane and he meet and so they're an item. But before you talk about the marriage, we got to talk about how he meets his attorney again, his attorney in a much bigger case, lou Diamond. The thing is he's with Diane and he picks up a hitchhiker on the road, tell us about what happens to this hitchhiker, and tell us what happens that circumstances that lead to him meeting his future attorney.
Yes, he picks up a hitchhiker one evening and she gets into the car again with that with whatever UH disposition that he has, that he has this ability to to get women to listen to him, to comply, and to feel safe and secure, which is a common trait amongst a lot many serial killers. Unfortunately, that is true. She gets in the car and they're driving, and she, unlike many, she she senses something that is starting to go wrong with his behavior, and she follows her instincts,
which is commendable for her. She realizes, you know what, this is something wrong here, and she manages to escape. She manages to escape, and she flees, and she goes to the police department, and she gives a description of Richard Bigehot, which is which is you know, five for five ft eight, red red hair, pearson, pearson, blue eyes. He's got a score on his on his face that's from the gun. That's from the gunfight that he was
involved in. The fifty eight UH not really hard to uh to avoid that description on Big Wads Part uh right. He ends up based on that description. They identify who he is, he becomes a target. They arrest him. He's sitting in it. He's sitting in the jail in Staten Island. There's a criminal defense attorney, a young defense attorney named lou Diamond. He represents a lot of the he's a he's a he's a criminal defense at it. So he represents a lot of the mob mobsters on Staten Ireland.
So he has a reputation as being a mob attorney. He gets a phone call, he says, from someone in the underworld who he doesn't identify, but he knows. He says, it's clearly someone that's in the underworld obviously, i e. Organized crime. They say, we need you to do us a favor. When they ask to do a favor, you do a favor. We need you to represent this person. He was arrested and he's a good kid, gives his mouth shut, just does what he's told, So we need
you to represent him. That's how this defense attorney, Loue Diamond is introduced into Richard big Wall's life.
He goes it's intro to jail, No, go ahead, I'm sorry.
He goes to the jail for the first meeting with Big World. They're sitting there talking and you know, going through you know, the case and what happened. And before they before he leaves, he closes the door, Diamond looks back and he says to him, that's an interesting hair color you have, and he walks away. But he did it in in such a way, in such a tone that biagle Will got exactly what he meant. And he shaved his hair that night, which created a problem in
the in the police line up the following day. And that's ultimately that that ended up leading to him not being identified because the victim could not identify who he was and he walked in that charge. And back then, nowadays they do photo lineups. Back then he actually did live lineups of people.
So yeah, it was uh interesting too that when we talked about the marriage, because he thought he was going away, because he's certain he was going to go away, and he knew nothing about this someone angel in his in his corner recommending and giving a call the lou Diamond, this prestigious lawyer, to come and defend him. He thought he was going to go to jail, and so Diane
and him tied the knot at that point. So, knowing more about his character, she decided to marry him while he was off for prison.
Potentially correct. And it's kind to looking back at it. We know now that that that you know they were looking at he was going to sexually assault that hitchhiker. Now we look back and we can we can speculate that he was going it was actually probably gonna be one of his throat killings. Yeah, did she know about this? We don't know what was some sexual thing that they were going to take part. So she was aware of his behavior and his criminality to what extent you know,
you can only we can only speculate. Right now.
You take us to January fourteenth, nineteen eighty three, and there's two boys playing and they discover a body about fifty feet from the start of a path, just off a trail near a burger king adjacent to a wooded lot, and its skeletal remains of a female in Ocean Township. Detective Robert Miller is involved, and there's also a detective Lucia. Now, what's the condition of this female and is there any
evidence left behind and then tell us about Anna Marie. Also, I don't know about this association which also which.
Yep, yes they these boys discover a skeletal remains of Anna Ossowitz. There are there is some evidence this clothing that's that's that's there that she was wearing. There there are no shoes found at the scene. And there are some twenty two bullet fragments in the skull of the of the victim. That that's the forensics that they had at the time had no idea. There was no identifying paperwork documents with her. So that's what they that they went on is just there was a missing per.
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You know, twenty two rounds. Fragments were found in the skull with clothing. What happens is it gets reported on
the news. It's in the paper and a police officer named Mike Dowling from Asbury Park Police, he's reading the paper on his day off and joining a cup of coffee and that's when he comes across this article and what stands out to him is the didn't have any shoes, and he recalled a missing person case that he had done several months before that she had been sitting up in the Ansberry Park boardwalker owns throw from the famous Stone Stone Pony Bruce Springsteen frequent frequent were sitting there,
but she had no shoes, so he based on that he reached out to the p day and next how they ultimately and identifying her as the victim.
You write about the friend and Anna Marie going out and then her friend has issues, so she has to go to a washroom, so she leaves her friend outside of this out like I say, across the street from the Stone Pony, famous musical venue. And when she comes back in so many minutes, Anna Marie is gone, and so that's how she is then reported. Her friend reports
her the next day to police. And so how does the investigation proceed and how far do they get in terms of determining who the perpetrator is in this case.
Well, they the police, you know, they they follow normal protocols. And in this case, the last person she was with, she she's the she's the first one that's gonna show up on the right. And could she have any involvement in it? And she did. She had a little bit of a trouble in past, but so did Anna in
terms of, you know, uh, recreational drug use. And so they explored her background and the one thing that that didn't sit well with them was the fact that she had They walked back it was it was it was it was the house that she was using from her uncle wasn't exactly close, but it was in walking distance, and they went back there and used the restroom. She left Anna and she came back and that's when she
was gone. So they had a little bit of a of a problem believing that at first, but ultimately, as as it turns out that obviously she was cleared from that. So looking back at this, you can see it's being a former former state troop, but you can see that there's some really communication errors being being dropped on law enforcement's part because they were missing missing women that were happening all across the Jersey Shore area, and because of
it was different venues, it wasn't really getting reported. So I don't know, I don't know why no one ever put you know, two and two together and said, you know, maybe maybe we got maybe we got a serial killer on the loose, because you know, you go from November of eighty one, you know to November of eighty two, you're talking about you know, one, two, three, fourth like sick people missing. But they never really put two and
two together. So they were they were still exploring what, you know, what happened with her, and they didn't they weren't tying in. It's just the thing that really kind of perplexing for me as as an investigator, why they didn't start exploring the missing people that were that were taking place. And they were all very similar in age and and and looks as well, young females, dark hair, dark eyes, but they didn't. Uh so they were you know,
they had a victim. They had some forensics. DNA wasn't what it was if it existed at all at the time. It was just beginning to come into play, and that's all they had.
Uh.
If not not for I had mentioned, uh, Richard big Wold introducing a girlfriend into he and Diane's life. If not for that girlfriend coming forward, which a very well might never have been arrested and Anna's murderer would probably never even be identified.
Let's talk about that. You write that detectives Lucia and Miller learned that Anna had been wearing a black and gold ring and there was no sign of that ring at the crime scene. But that'll be important later. You introduce Teresa Smith, or we should introduce Teresa Smith, who's twenty two years old, another very pretty beautiful woman. She's addicted the amphetamines. She's working as a waitress. That's where
she meets Diane began. Walt tell us about the relationship that quickly ensues and what that relationship is characterized by.
Well, yes, she meets Diane. Diane introduced as arts her husband. This is where I anecdotally that that drug connection with Diane, because she was addicted ten centemines so there was some drug distribution going on out there as another gentleman, I'm sure we'll talk about William Ward was involved and that
drug running. So there was this this activity was going on, and that's how she she comes into the Bigger World world and then at some point she ends up actually having a uh you sexual relationship with Richard Bigerwald and living together with with him and uh his wife Diane, to what extent the Yeah, it's pretty bizarre again with the sexual activity that was taking place. Uh, there was certainly sexual activity that was taking place between Bigger World
and Teresa. Uh the role Diane took it in that part, I don't know, but it was it's it's it's bizarre and strange, but there was certainly a sexual relationship. And what he started to develop with Teresa was this he had this what would be described by her as a desire almost like he had PMS. That's how it was described to law enforcement that he would have to go out. He was getting these moods and that's when he would
go out and he would do his thrill killings. And that was his way of calming down and getting getting his thrills, if you will. So he would go out and he would he would target these young, attractive, brunette, dark haired, you know girls in the eighteens to early twenties. And although there's no proof that he's sexually assaulted assaulted them,
there is some anecdotal evidence that he did. When he brings, he actually brings, well, let me, I'm getting ahead of myself, So before we do that, he started to introduce and try to groom Teresa to go out with them for these these thrill killings, and he was trying to get her to actually kill someone goad sense he wanted to say something, Yeah, well he was.
He was like you say, he was grooming her, you talk of you write of taking her to a shooting range so that she could get comfortable with weapons. He was asking her questions like if she was curious about touching a body, and then he did somehow convince her to at least look for a victim. And one of
those victims was a coworker named Betsy Bacon. So he's confident that he's got her as a confidant, and now he's excited that there's somebody else he can someone he can share with in thrill killings that he describes to her. She doesn't witness, but he describes to her. So when you talk about no evidence of of something like that, in terms of no witness, what does tell us about this potential murder of Betsy Bacon and what actually happens.
Yes, she identifies a victim and she she for some reason, she she doesn't she can't go through with it. So she, you know, identifies it. He's gonna go out and uh, you know, we're gonna they're gonna go out and they're gonna do it, and she's going to actually do the killing, but she she cannot work up the the ability to do that. Somehow they uh, he decides then or he's
going to do well, let's let's let's let's pack. Let's back this up a little bit in terms of Anna Oswartz, because what happened, says he brings Anna Ossowitz, He picks her up at the on the Jersey Shore on the boardwalk. He brings her home to his apartment in Asbury Park, and she's in the car and she's she's high. They were smoking smoking pot. He leaves her in the coin and he goes up to the bedroom to wake up Teresa, to get her to come down and likely to partake
in the killing. She's so high and drugged out that she she does not want to go down. She does, however, get up and look looks out the window and sees the silhouette of Anna Oswitz in the car. She she goes back into a drug induced sleep. The next morning, he brings her down into the detached garage where he's got the body of Anna Oswitz and wants her to touch the body. And that's where he ultimately takes the
ring off of the body. But that right there is the key to his downfall is because he introduced Anna and that's how when they ultimately because now you know, fast forward, she can't go through with these throat killings. She identifies the victim, yes, realizes she doesn't want to go through with it. They ended up breaking up. She leaves, she's no longer a resident in the Big World household. The body of Anaosuwitz is discovered. It hits the local news.
She's watching the local news. She sees it. She knows exactly who that victim was. She becomes fearful now because she can tie Bigger world to that victim, and she knows that being a world is he's very clean in his killings. He does not allow for loose ends. That's where she becomes fearful that she's going to be the next victim. And by the way, if you look at all the victims that he killed, she fits that profile. Attractive. Yeah,
dark hair, dark eyes, slim figure. She fit the profile to a take so and I think she she after she got off the drugs. I think she kind of realized that she was next. And that's.
It's interesting that you write too that she had. Teresa had when she broke up. She was dating another man named George Susco and uh, just as the papers were
reporting discovery of Anna Maurice's body. She had she had told George, but he wrote it off, and then he shared some of those stories with his ex life ex wife, Bonnie, who was a probation officer, and she didn't believe it either, But finally she called her friend, Detective Bobby Miller, And so finally the authorities were aware of Teresa, weren't they.
Yes, And and it is strange that what she was describing is is Richard biegerworld, and he had had a friend living with them as well. It's it was like a small It was a large house that was turned into uh, several small apartments if you will. And his friend were of a colleague, H. Daryl Fitzgerald lived there.
And what they would do is they cut through the floor, so they had like a secret entrance to go down into the basement through the through the apartment, and in the basement they were they were experimenting with a variety of methodologies methodologies. Oh I never know what time with that word methodologies to kill people. They converted cigarette lighters into twenty two caliber guns. One of them actually discharged
tonight that he was arrested. They had a poisonous snake in the basement that they were extracting the venom from that they were going to plant on phones at the Momoth Mall. They had explosive devices, they had weapons, They had edge weapons, and a variety of other instruments, including books on how to kill people. So I can see how telling someone about that be like, well, you know, no that it sounds so weird, and I can you
keep on using the word bizarre. But the best worry for bigger world to think that this stuff was actually going on. It just seems too far fetched. And almost like she's embellishing. However, she wasn't embellishing. It is exactly what they were doing in their basement, will kill it. That's kind of different. I discovered through my research in these drill killings, that was his serial He enjoyed doing the serial killing, and that.
Was his his.
His way to get excitement in his life. I guess if you will. He was identified by his defense attorney as a hitman, and he draw us that conclusion by by conversations with him and by also his conversations with the figures that actually introduced him to Richard began Wahle asking him for the defense that he really liked to kill people, and he did that, and it was, you know, unlike the hitman that you see in Hollywood movies where they're driving around. In Ferrari's it's just he enjoyed that
aspect of an alley of killing. So that operation he had in his basement is almost separate from his thrill killing. It was that was that was that was more and the poisonous venom from the snakes was more of a mass killing that he was plotting at the moment. Mall it's it's it's it's really strange. So I can see how someone with which she was embellishing, and and and keep in mind that she was very high on drugs
at the time. She was a drug addict, so her perception wasn't wasn't what it should be, so people would probably not believe her.
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Details we talk about Teresa almost not being believed, but she also tells authorities about somebody. She says that Veganwalld met in prison, Darren Fitzgerald. So tell us about what happens with the police finding out about the identity of this Darren Fitzgerald.
Well, she comes forward and she's reluctant to come forward with authorities, but they agree to me in the momoth mall, in the back of a store, in a clothing area where where she's out of you because she's she's definitely afraid that she's she's going to be seen and she's got she's the next victim of big a world. So this introduction to Bobby Miller takes place in the concealed confines if you will, of a clothing store.
Mm hmm.
Again, he's this is this is very bizarre what she's saying to him. So he comes, he comes to the you know, brings that information back and they set up a formal uh, a formal interview on what you know, what's there and who's actually in the apartment. So that's this is the game plan and the takedown, the raid. In that interview process, Darrel Fitzgerald is identified as the colleague one of the people living there. He's got a
violent past, he's been arrested for violence. He's been arrested away head guns actually shoulder hosters and stuff with the bulletproof vest on him in the past, so they know that they got one violent in there, and they also know bigger Wald that he had been arrested he was eighteen at the time for murder, but his arrest record other than the hitchhiker account is pretty much vacant other than the first killing, because he spent the best majority
of this time in prison. So doing the due diligence, they realize, Okay, they're gonna have to They're gonna have to do a raid, and it's gonna have to be in the middle of the night, and they're going to have to is a very real possibility that del Fitzgerald is not going to cooperate. So that's how he's introduced into it. And some people, some people describe him as as being even even worse than Richard bigger Wald, that he was a real badass. But so he he was
a badass. I think he was also intimidated by Richard big Wall because I think Richard bigger Wald was was great and he knew he's crazy, so Fitzgerald was. It was almost a sidekick to Richard bigger Wald.
Now, what's the idea for the takedown? They want to minimize any kind of damage to anybody, to make sure no one gets hurt. And they understand that Fitzgerald and might have weapons and might be not cooperative to say the least, and began Wald the same if he's already shot at police before. So what's the idea, what's the strategy, what's their plan? And tell us about that execution of it.
Well, they decide that they're not just going to do a raid where they're going to do it, no knock and go in. They decided that they're going to do a takedown and now it's Asberry Park. This time it was at the Amesbury Park of today's criminal activity taking place in that community.
Okay, John, John, you just broke up in the last John, you just broke up in the In the last bit of exchange, we were talking about the plan for the takedown for began Wall at the apartment in Fitzgerald.
Okay, uh as I said, Asbury Park was not the Asbury Pork of what it is today. There was a lot of criminal activity taking place, so it would not be unheard of to have a trespasser in the middle of the night. So that's what they set up. They
decided that they wouldn't do a takedown. They were going to have a police officer go into the yard under the guys that he's criminal trying to break into the car, and they would police would be spot it and it would take him down and he would create a commotion in the in the parking lot, which is really just the driveway of the apartment, because remember the apartment is just basically a large house that was converted into four apartments.
So they were going to create this commotion as if someone was being arrested, hoping that Bigger Wald and Fitzgerald would come outside and that's when they would take him down. And so that's that's what they set up, and that's that's how they were able to apprehend Bigger World. He actually came outside, Fitzgerald did not, and they had to go inside.
Now they arrest him, and they end up arresting Fitzgerald as well. What happens with the questioning and what do they what do they determined tell us more about what happens next.
Well.
An interesting part of when they went inside to look for Fitzgerald is that they didn't find him at first. It took quite some time. Is because it goes again with the story that Teresa was talking about, with this this lab taking places with weaponry and and poisonous snakes in the basement, and and and hidden hidden closets and
and in the house he was hiding. There was a hidden compartment within the wall behind a mirror, and he was hiding behind that with a gun in long rifle in in hand while they were searching through the house. Why he didn't why he didn't start firing, uh, is is a mystery. Uh. One of the officers said that they were They remember staring in that mirror and looking back at it knowing that he was on the other side.
It was a two way mirror. Looking at him with a long rifle in hand is kind of scary, probably because he was he was under the impression that they weren't going to they weren't going to discover him in the closet, and there was a lot of them there. Ultimately they he did, and they apprehended him, and he gave up without without the gunfire. During the interview process
post arrest, yeah, Uh, he was initially uncooperative. Then when he realized that he was going to be an accomplice in the murder of an Ossowitz and they were going to charge him as an accomplice. He came forward, Uh he said, if I come forward with with some bodies, you know, for a plea deal, And that's exactly what happened.
And he so that's how that's how they got Darryl Fitzgerald to flip on Bigle Wald and he was he had he had mentioned about where they buried the bodies, and it was it was several bodies that uh, one was in one was, if I recall correctly, one or two in Jersey, and there was two that were at his mother's Big World's mother's house in the backyard.
Right.
So they may realized that they realized that they had they had more more than just Anosvitz as a victim, that there were more victims out there. So then that's when it's they started story around and start looking at those those missing pursing records and say, okay, who else is missing?
Right? And so that's when they put together and connected him to Betsy Bacon and and other You list three other women as well that that were included with this that there was evidence to link them to Beganwald.
Yes, yes, Deborah Osborne, Virginia Clayton and Maria Shillela from pronouncing that name correctly. H Deborah and Maria were buried in his mother's backyard in a makeshift grave next to the garage.
Yeah, and they found out that his ruse was We mentioned it before. It was just a simple ruse in terms of he used his charm. But what else was part of the ruse in terms of attract people to come with him.
Was Malwuna. He had Malwanna and they were gonna go smoke and get high. Yeah. Yeah, it was that simple. He would identify him and then that's how he would get him in.
Now the authorities have enough evidence. They even find the ring because they talk about they find the gold ring of Annas and so they have that in terms of crucial evidence. But this low Diamond, Lewis Diamond, is the guy representing Beganwald and you talk about his behavior and his antics.
So tell us a.
Little bit about what lou Diamond does and the kinds of things he does it with the media to try to help his client.
Yeah, well, if you would call, and I said, and I opened up the book, I try to paint his picture in words of you know, bayoned during the holiday season, and and then you know, from a distance, you could you could sit across the kilven car you see Richard Bigowaud.
And the reason I did that is because this this story is you know, you have the protagonist, and then you have the antagonist, and then you got these these characters that are peppered in there that are that are so unique and and Lou Dimond is one of them. He's a popular defense attorney, criminal defense attorney off of Staten Island who drives around in a rogue Royce with the license plate that says acquittal quitted. And he dresses
with in long fur coats with diamond rings. So he's this, he's this that is just so different to the small beach communities where where now where a bigger world is going to end up ultimately getting tried. And they see him driving up in a rose Royce and getting out with his long fur colt and you know his his his fingers are littered with diamond rings. He is a character that really likes the show. He likes the showmanship, he likes the appeal, he likes the press. He's well spoken,
he's well educated, he's a very nice guy. He's easy to get along with, and he uses that to his advantage to to really light up the scene when he comes when he when he drives up to the Mammoth County Courthouse.
You say this, and even though this is also at the same time, there's a guy named al Layer, this deprossect, and his nickname is Hollywood Owl. It's not like there is another people that understand the importance of being a little bit flamboyant and boisterous.
Correct. And then you look at his counterpart, which is Hollywood al Lare. And the reason he was called Hollywood Alare is because he liked to use the press to his advantage. He anything that his office did very wisely. By the way, anything that his office did, he would make sure that there was a press press release of press conference, and he would get that word out of the job that they were doing. He liked to be in front of that podium talking to the reporters and
the press. So then you got these two individuals on both sides of the lore are very similar in terms of their sultorial splendor, if you will, the way that you like to dress and the flamboyants, and it's just pitchre this taking place in a in a in a in a primarily a beach community in Mammouth County, New Jersey. And you got this serial killer which is really putting a fear in everyone in the community. How long has he been operating? How many victims have there have there been?
And then you see, you know, Rose Royce is driving up with defense attorney, you know, dressed all out. And then in Hollywood out there it was like right out of a of a movie scene. And I said to myself, you know, and this is it's just playing out like it's it's fiction. However, it's not sadly it's it's it's it's it's nonfiction. This is real stuff that's taking place, and people have lost their lives.
This is a big case, and it's a potentially death penalty case. And we'll talk about that and that sort of that issue that is not fixed, that there is a death penalty. We'll talk about that. Diamond is right from the beginning of jury selection is performing and and uh up to all kinds of antics. And you write about the jury too, because this case is it would be hard for anybody not to know about this case.
You write tell us a little bit about some of the things they found out about the jury that almost derails this trial.
Well, in jury selection, you know, they try to obviously, each side tries to get the durers to fit their their perspective or what they want in terms of obviously, in defense, they're going to want people that are unfamiliar with the case, which is hard hard to do in this area, especially since it sitting the news and it seems like they're turning up bodies every other every other day.
And there was there was one dury that there was obviously very familiar with the case and failed to report that, and that that that obviously could have painted the way the you know, the jury decision, the verdict.
Now, what what is the you talk about James Fagan the prosecutor, what is his strategy? How does he portray and plan to portray Veganwald in this trial? What's what does he call him? How does he want to portray him versus the depiction by Lou Diamond as just his innocent client.
Well, James Fagan's the assistant prosecutor and he he is odds with the main prosecutor, Hollywood al Lair because al Lair looking is primarily looking to quickly prosecute the case and and move on. Uh, having a serial killer in your community is not something that people really want to really have, you know, extensive coverage on. So I think there was some some probably politics involved in that decision with James Fagan realized that, you know, you've got a
serial killer here. We we got we have identified a number of victims, and god knows how many other victims exist out there that we haven't identified. So he portrayed him like the cold blooded killer that that he really was that and he was just doing this for a pure thrill of it, for a pure thrill of killing. And Diamond, you know, thrust with Okay, you got this,
you got this guy that you have to represent. You've been with him for a number of years now, and now he turns out that he's a serial killer and he's got a number of deaths. Diamond told me in the interview process that he knew that there was no way he was going to get this guy off, even though that's just under under his obligation and his oath as a defense attorney is to get try to get him off, But he said he knew that he wasn't
going to get him off. His job at this point was to try to get the death penalty to go away. He did not want the death penalty for his client because his client was, believe it or not, deathly afraid. He did not want the death penalty. So that was the struggle taking place, and al Leire wanted to did not want to take the death penalty off the table. He wanted to move forward with the prosecution and they
include the death penalty throw in to this mix. Now is being a world approaches Diamond about if he comes forward with a number of bodies, will that be enough to take the death penalty off the table. There is a little bit of what's the word I'm looking for. There's a discrepancy with the number of bodies that were
presented to the prosecutor. Jimmy Fagan, the assistant prosecutor, remembers that Lou Diamond presented to him that they would conforward with seventy five bodies if they would take off the death penalty off the table. Lou Diamond remembers that number at twenty five, and they're both pretty sure that the
number is number. So whatever that number was, there is a considerable amount of bodies out there that are at the direct result of the hands of Richard being a walk So they present this number two al Laire who
turns it down. And this is something that James Fagan says that it just never sat right with him turning that down, nor did it sit right with lou Diamond, who said to me, he said, this is something that never really to this day bothers him, is the fact that there could have been, uh, there could have been closure out there for some for some number of families, and he just was so set that in his in his in his view that the death felt he needed
to be enforced with with this case that he wouldn't bend. So those bodies were never presented to to the to the prosecution for the for recovery, and the trial proceeded. Ultimately, ultimately he was found guilty and the tech penalty, uh you know, was was instituted. However, during the appeal part process they won that and he got life from prison without parole. So it was kind of counterproductive for the
for the prosecution. They could have they could have maybe got something walked away with some other other bodies and uh, some case cases closed and some families healed with at least closure.
Yes, absolutely, what was the official I know you touched on it, but what was the official like years later or after? What was the rationale for not accepting this? Was there any other reason other than just maintaining the death penalty? Was there any other reason why they wouldn't accept that or investigate further? His claims.
I al Lare had passed away, so I hadn't given a chance to speak with el Lare. And James Fagan's part, out of respect for his vose, he just he didn't really he couldn't answer that question for him. You know, you can surmise it was probably politically driven that they wanted to They wanted to show that you had this serial killer in the area, and you know, we're going to get the death penalty. Maybe maybe there was some concern with how many victims there were, what that would
do to the community. That's all speculation. I couldn't get anyone to tell me definitively why that decision was made.
Yeah, it's interesting. At the trial you write too that the lawyer just doing his job there, Lou Diamond. His strategy was to discredit the witnesses like Teresa that went to trial and discredit them through their use of drugs and tried to attack their character, didn't he m.
Exactly. And you know there's a popular you know, uh saying in police work, you know, method of operation a m o U. Serial killers will have a certain methodology. Uh, prosecute us have have the same and so the defense attorneys. And that's that's right out of the playbook. This credit has credit your witnesses, and that's it. He and he played it to the tay and that's exactly what he tried to do.
Now you follow bigan Wald into prison, how does he fare in prison? And what ultimately happens one day there?
Uh what what do you mean by what happens one day? I'm gonna sure where you're going with with that.
He dies in prison? He dies in prison in two thousand and eight from cancer and kidney failure.
Oh yeah, okay, Well he you know, that's a familiar environment to big world. He spent he spent years in uh you know, Trenton State. So he's he's back on on familiar, familiar grounds and to some extent, I'm sure that had some therapeutic healing for him. Uh, these these control, these these desires that he had that he couldn't control on the outside. Uh were were forced, uh forced into compliance.
So I'm sure to some extent that uh that provided some uh some mental therapy for him in terms of at least he was to control his desires that he had he couldn't, He couldn't, he couldn't fulfill. Prison is a is a is a tough place to be. You
have to exert your authority. You have to exert your presence, and you have to you have to the standard, if you will, on who you are and what behavior you'll accept and what behavior you won't accept, to know in order to survive in that environment, he had to let you know who he was, and he was fully capable of doing that. And anyone who knew Richard big Wood knew that he was. He was crazy, and it was you know, he would he would kill you if you
had to. And when he said leave me alone, I'm going to kill you, it was not an idle threat. But as time went on and as he grew old behind those steel bars, if you will, uh, he mellowed out. He worked in the work workshop, UH smoked heavily.
Uh.
I actually interviewed a couple uh prison guards there. He said, his his fell would be his cell would be you know, look like London with the with the cigarette smoke, smoke, and he'd be sitting there. And ultimately he ended up dying of cancer. Yeah, two thousand and right.
Two. Yeah, And you write that his wife and daughter, as far as you know, never came to visit. Interesting too, in the in the near the end of the book, you write about that Prosecutor Fagan went to see beigan Wald to see if he would confess what was what was his response?
He let the Richard Big Big Wald, well there was there was two times that they actually want one one time they because I think HBO had approached him on doing doing a documentary or a movie on it, and he wanted nothing to do with that. And then when Fagan sat with him and said, listen, you got you know you're in here, you're hearing here for life. We can we can close out some cases, we can give some closure to some families. You can, you can do some good. Can you help us out here? Wanted nothing
to do with it. He wouldn't he he would not co operate. And he and that's the mystery with Richard began Wald. His he's really his method of operation. Operation we know anecdotally and on with his thrill killings, but his other killings, you have, we have no idea because those people that were associated with him would end up dying. And then we know one person, John Patrol, who was a criminal colleague of his, ended up getting killed by
Richard Bigenwall back in seventy eight. And they found his body and well they found his body, not his head, and they did that in such a way that they couldn't even connect it to him because of their rush to to to recover the body. It just it just wasn't done well. But he he he is responsible for killing John Patrol.
So that.
That was that was Richard Biganwall if and that's that was the fear that Terrefa had that she was going to disappear, And that was the fear that eventually Darryl Fitzgerald would have had that, you know, either going to have to kill BigGAN World or get out of town
because he's going to kill you. He doesn't leave any of his any witnesses, if you will absolutely now the fact that we didn't just one other thing we didn't mention real quick is William Ward He shot and killed William Ward in front of a few people out out in front of his apartment, and no one came forward because he said, if you come forward, I'm going to kill you. That's the fear that he instilled in people.
Yes, absolutely, he is a very unique killer, to say the least, and certainly fits the bill of the Jersey Shore thrill Killer. I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about the Jersey Shore thrill Killer, Richard Beganwald. I know that you have other books as well. If you could just tell us about those other books and tell us how we might find out more about the Jersey Shore thrill Killer other than going to Amazon.
Well, my latest book is called Mystery Millions and Murder in North Jersey. It's about the kidnapping and killing of Excellon International President Sidney Resel. He was killed in nineteen ninety two by a husband and wife team of former cop who retired on the disability and then ultimately ended up plotting and kidnapping Richard being Wald, leading to his demise.
And then I had written two books prior to this Jersey Shore Thrill Killer, and they were called Jersey Troopers Sacrifice at the altar of public service and New Jersey State Troopers remembering the falling about the New Jersey State Troopers who dined in the line of duty in the case, is that the incidents that actually brought to their demise in terms of the In terms of the Jersey Shore thrill Killer, I have some information on my website about it.
I'm actually putting together my research archives that eventually will be posted so people can actually look at the poems, like actual written statements from bayone and all the other pictures and documents that I have. So I'm actually trying to put together my research documents for all my books and they will eventually be attached to my website, which is www dot John eourke dot com.
Thank you very much, John O'Rourke for the Jersey Shore thrill Killer. Richard Began Walt, It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much, and have a great thank you Dan.
Thank you, Dan, I appreciate it you too. Good Night.