THE GRIM SLEEPER-Victoria Redstall

become one of US America's most prolific serial killers. At the time, Los Angeles was a city struggling under the weight of racial inequalities in a crack epidemic that was sweeping through its most deprived areas. The victims were black women and often addicts and sex workers. Many in the communities of South Central felt that these factors all caused a lack of interest on the part of LAPD in investigating the murders, allowing Franklin to carry on his killing

spree undetected. The book they were featuring, the Sevening is The Grim Sleeper Talking with America's most notorious serial killer, Lonnie Franklin Junior, with my special guest, journalist and author and filmmaker Victoria Redstall. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing this interview. Victoria Redstall, Hello, thank you for having me. Thank you very much, Welcome

back to the program. Congratulations on The Grim Sleeper and this exclusive interviews with Lonnie Franklin Jr. Which you come up with this end product, The Grim Sleeper Talking with America's most notorious serial killer. As you do write in the book, tell us you mentioned a couple of people that you think right off immediately for access to information and all the help in putting this incredible book together.

So as you do tell us the just without much introduction, who these people are that you think for this book.

train to be an actor Los Angeles County Sheriff. That came many, many, many years later, when I trained to be a sheriff. That's my involvement there. So I've worked with them. I've writ written along obviously on the ground thousands of times and in the air in the helicopter as well, and of course been very hand on with them because of being a civilian volunteer. You learned so

much by being around them every day. So that's what I did from the age of nineteen twenty twenty one when I first came to America now two days decades later, I've always had that involvement, and because of family friends that were murdered by a mass murderer when I was eleven years old, I've also always been very interested in the mind of these heinous murderers, serial killers and mass murderers because of what happened to me when I was eleven.

So when I was offered to do a documentary back many years ago, I think it was two thousand and seven, I jumped at that opportunity and since then I've been able to get in the mind of various different serial killers and also helped with different homicide detectives, not just juriffs, but pd also in Canada. Where you are in Canada, there was somebody in Winnipeg. They were working with me getting in the mind of serial killer called Short and

Cameron Lane, Shawn, Cameron Lamb, sorry, Sean Kmer Lamb. So there's many different avenues of work with law enforcement. That's just more of a recent one in the last eleven years has been with homicide detectives helping them close cases. So I was commissioned for my first book and it's Snowboards from there, and my most recent book on the Grim Sleeper came out a couple of months ago in June.

Lonnie David Franklin Junior, is arrested. Now, from that point, how do you contact Lonnie Franklin Junior? How do you approach him to ensure as you have done before that you've been able to do this, how do you ensure this time that he will respond and tell us a little bit give I'll give our audience a little bit on how you negotiate this with this person.

in September. I believed beginning of October when he got classified, and that when I called up the jail, because I kept calling every month, I was calling to see when he was classified. So it was very early on when he was classified that I went to the jail. I showed up in the high powered lane, the line where you stand for about forty five minutes waiting in the cold or in the heat to get in to see your inmate. Usually it's a family member. So that's how

it happened. In October twenty ten, I stood in that line and I waited to go in. Now, what I had thought was he would have received the letter that I had sent a week before. So I thought, Okay, he's going to receive my letter. He knows what I look like because I always end a headshot. He knows what I look like, and he knows I'm English, and I told him about myself, and I taught him I'm

going to visit him. However, because of the high profile that he is in an ad seig unit, which is, you know, an administrative segregated from all the other inmates, his high power, I didn't get to him. Didn't get to him. It takes about eight weeks, sometimes two or three months to get to one of these types of inmates. So actually he didn't have a clue who I was. So when I went in to the area, there was about eight cells, not selfs, and eight visiting areas where

you can sit. And there behind class, I was looking at each of the innates. One was a white guy, one was Hispanic, another one was Hispanic. One was a little frail black guy, another one was Hispanic, another one was Hispanic, another one was Hispanic, and then there was a white guy. Well, there was only one black guy out of all the people there. I mean, I'm thinking, this guy looks quite large on the screen and done in the papers, so I didn't think it was him.

And I looked back at him, and he was just shaking his head, you know, because he'd never seen me, didn't even know who I was, because he didn't get that letter. He just was expecting his wife to visit him. I don't believe he thought anyone but his wife would visit him. And I sat there and I saw his hand and his hand said Lonnie David Franklin Jr. And then I realized that that was him. It looks totally different, but it was him. So I sat with him and

he looked like he's seen a ghost. He leapt back in his chair and shook his head. I said, no, no, no, it's okay. I'm for you, and he goes, no, no, no, because we couldn't the phone lines went up, so then I said, no, trust me, I am. So it was a little awkward for the first two minutes, but then when the phone lines got up, when they started to work, I said, hey, you know, Nonnie, I'm Victoria. The one who wrote you the letter. He said what letter? I said, well,

you know, it used to be my mechanic. And of course I was winking at the time through the screen because everything's recorded. So I said, you know, you remember my card always had a problem. See I knew he was a mechanic, that's all I knew. I said, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah man, oh yeah yeah I remember, yes, I said, And you used to always fixed it for free, didn't you.

we get to trial. Almost five years later, and I said, but listen, how about I write a book on you? And he just say, oh okay. I said, this is what I want from you, one hundred percent exclusivity, one hundred percent. Now our came here every Thursday. I will make your day. I'm fun of hell, high energy. I'm definitely going to make you laugh. And I want you to have your word and I want you to sign it. So he sent me a letter signing something to give

me his exclusive life story. And because he wasn't convicted yet, he wasn't going to talk about the crimes. He talked about everything except the actual crimes. And that's why my book focused more on his life growing up than the actual crimes themselves, right, And that's that's how it happened.

they slapped it. I remember they slapped the screen the plexiglass when we say goodbye, giving a high five to each other. So I remember that very well. So yes, I took my father down. I've taken my parents to death Row a couple of times. So it's not like I don't include my parents in my life. I have an exciting life. Why not share it? So yes I have.

I've done that for the experience and for the fact that my father was instrumental in the one who said, why don't you write to that guy the grim Sleeper, because before he got caught. My very first serial killer interview was with a man called Wayne adam Ford, and he I always said that I would stay in touch with him, and I do. He calls once a month from death Row, but before then I would visit him maybe once a year, just to kind of keep him with him and also work with him on pilots and

TV shows and shows for A and E and Investigation Discovery. Well, one of the times this is long before twenty ten. It must have been two thousand and seven or eight when he was on death row. He said to me, why don't you go out and try to find the grim Sleeper. Now I didn't know who that was. This is long before the arrest. And he said, listen, I'll give you the demographics. I'll give you the profile of what I believe he is. And it was Wayne Ford that told me he's going to be a black guy.

He's going to be African American. He's probably a family man. He's probably married. I wouldn't be surprised to being married many years. And he's probably one of those guys that people like in the neighborhood. Now I'm telling you that serial killer Wayne Adam Ford hit the nail on the head dead on yeah, because that's exactly who Lonnie Franklin. And he's been married almost forty years to Sylvia. He is a family man to an extent, and he was very much liked by the neighbors and he was a

fun loving guy. Now the African American part. I asked Wayne, why do you think he's going to be African Americans? He said, because we serial killers, we usually stick with our own race when killing. And I didn't know that at the time. So actually you do learn from Syria, you learn from your subject. So yes, I didn't necessarily go to school to learn about serial killers. I got it from the horse's mouth. And that's what he said.

He said they stick to their own race. And if you look at the innocent victims that Lonnie Franklin killed, every one of them was African African American.

time with me. He is awaiting trial, so he couldn't confess anything to you even if he really wanted to, and the trial would be completely different. And so you talk about this taking five and a half years. So right in twenty ten October, you start tell us like a typical visit, say without your father, tell us what that's like, what's his demeanor like, what's his intellect like? Actually, always these serial killers are depicted as almost morons later

at a the sentencing phase in their trial. But tell us what he was really like at that visit in his correspondence. What's the tone, what are you guys talking about? What's he sharing with you?

Do you mind? And of course the Sheriff's department very kindly gave me three times extra time because it you only get twenty minutes with a high powered inmate. But they knew me since I was a kid who I was nineteen, so they gave me three times that so I always have an hour, full hour with him, which was very lucky. So anyway, yes, he would be full of energy. Telling me stories about the other inmates, because he used to be driven nuts by a guy called

Alex d Silva who was in for rape. In my opinion, he did not do it at all. Who's as innocent as the day is long, and he knows that, and I think now he's out of prison. But the point being is he just hated this guy, Alex Disilber and he said, Alex made up so much noise. He wants to watch movies and I can't get me to sleep at night. And then there was one of the rappers that was in with him and another staff from DeBarge

that there was quite a few well known people. Ryan o'neilson was in as well, so that there's a lot of people that he would talk about, and then some that he would also talk about that they didn't know his name, and so many different things, thinking that they were a cop that went bad, or that they were working with the FBI, which actually turned out to be completely true because years later when the Sheriff's Department Orderan went to prison, that guy Anthony Brown actually was in

that ad stage unit. So it's the block kind of thickens there and goes off in different directions. But bringing it back to your question, it was just he was very fun and he wanted to talk a lot about that. I had to try and real him in. I said, listen, Monnie, I can't hear about all the gossip on your robe, his selles on a throw. I don't need to hear that. But if you could just let me know when you grew up and your brother came from Texas to your half brother, and how much you loved him, tell me

about those times. And then when I reeled him back in, he would then let loose tell me all about his brother, or his sister, or his kids, the illegitimate kid that he'd had that his wife doesn't know about. So he would and he would tell me, don't put that in the book. Oh, but you can put that in the book.

And then it got so late that I don't know what I put in the book that he didn't want me to, because there was he was so fast with his speech and so all over the place that I hope that I didn't put anything in that he didn't want me to.

the fact he's very short, which he is. I believe it's by six by six five seven maybe, but he was very fat as a kid, and the bullying didn't stop. It was everywhere. Any school he was in, any class he was in, he was made to look like a joke. I believe that this is what affected him. Because usually serial killers, they are they are formed, you know, they are not necessarily born as serial killer. They are formed with a lethal cocktail. And usually it's abuse of the

parents or siblings. Abuse, whether it be sexual or physical, abandonment, all of this is that's what he didn't have, but he had such abuse from his schoolmates, his peers. That's what I think, more than his life and being short and being fat, I believe he wanted to have power over people, as serial killers do. They want that sense of ultimate power, and that's at the hands of them them to kill someone and see the life being robbed

from them. So that made him feel powerful killing these innocent victims.

a gang rape. It came out in trial she actually was flown over from Germany, so he would twist the story making it look like he'd had sex with this German girl when really he raped them, raped her with two other men and ended up in I believe in some kind of prison or short time in jail, but was thrown out of the army because of that ordeal. But so yes, he would take drugs from one area to another area of Germany when he was stationed out

in Germany. He never took drugs himself, according to him, and I kind of believe him because his way of getting women, and later in life proved that with the women that he did kill was to actually get the drugs for them, and that was another way of getting them in his grasp, whether to have sex with them, whether to have sex with them and kill them or

whatever he was trying to do. So yes, he had a good time in Germany and one experience with that white female and the rest were with black females.

was in a fight with him and started to hit him. Well, he didn't like that, and then he hit her across the face in defense of himself. That caused her to have severe bruising on the face. So he pretended to stay with her for a few few days longer till the bruising went down because he didn't want her to leave the house or I don't know whose house. I think it was her house. He didn't want her to go out looking like that and him getting into trouble.

That was one incident where he was violent. There was a second incident when he was a kid. There was a fight that he had to break up, and that was I think between two girls. He got in and ended up protecting one girl against the other. I big I wrote that in my book. It's been such a long, intense case that some of the facts that I have written that our Faxel told to me back then as facts have slipped my mind. But I believe there's only been two incidences. I asked him, I said, have you

ever hit Sylvia? Sylvia his his wife, And he said, oh, no, no, no, never in a million years. He said, she would throw knives at me. She would throw knives at me if I ever tried to lay a hand on her. So he led me to believe, according to him, that his wife was the one who maybe had a little tendency to go towards violence, and not him. I don't believe

he was violent to women or to men. I don't I think that's in him, But I do believe that he had different A lot of serracillers aren't violent, So that's what's such a dichotomy of what I'm saying here. They may not be violent with anyone. Look at the Green Ripper killer, Gary Ridgeway. He was married for eighteen nineteen years to Judas Ridgeway, and he killed seventy two prostitutes. I mean, the mind boggles, and he strangdled them. He never laid a hand on Judis because Judith told me,

and he never raised his voice to her. And they bred puppies. So actually a lot of serrakillers, and I would say the majority of the ones I've met have never been violent, but yet they will be violent for those types of females, usually that are of a certain type of female. They're the ones that they want to kill. They will be as violent and as horristic to them that you can imagine.

But he continued after he met her. She tolerated his antics, his affairs, and his criminality during that time. During that relationship, and there was a garage that Lonnie had He told her to stay out of that garage, didn't.

these prostitutes. He kept the photographs that he took, the polaroids I mean that are assumed to be dead at his hands, but some of were never found and some were found. And of course the nature wrote Washington. Thank god she lived to tell the tale. And it was how herloid picture in the garage as well. So there was a lot in that garage that she wasn't allowed to go in. But I don't know that.

calls and had correspondence. If you're not going to talk about the upcoming trial and his guilt or innocence, then and he's talking about his family, what was that like? Again you talk about him being distracted in going off on tangents, but that's a long time to be corresponding with someone. Tell us about that long detailed correspondence and what was a characterized.

doesn't matter. But whoever took over from her was a raising ludatic and that is why the trial was delayed so long. And I'll tell you all about that guy in a moment. But the trial I actually visited him from the October twenty ten, probably for just a year, just over a year, and then it was a perfect timing because when I got banned, I didn't really need any more solid information from Lonnie Franklin. And it wasn't come from the Sheriff's department because they wouldn't have banned me.

It was from the defense lawyers that asked the Sheriff's department to not let me in to see him. So what happened was I had just the end of the book, were the questions that I had from the beginning, and those weren't answered, and that's the problem. So I didn't have more than a year, year and a half of visits with him and phone calls and a lot of it.

Nearing the trial, we talked about it because he was still on the papers years before he came to trial, and he was in the paper he was accused of possibly killing one hundred and eighty females because when they did a search warrant, the LPD did the search warrant in his home, they took out all the photographs and not just the ones from the garage, which were the ones from the possible victims, but the ones from the photo albums where he actually himself was in the picture,

but apparently LPD tore him out and put the pictures up. And I understand Bede's point. They are doing it to see did he kill people he knew? Did he kill family members? Their hands were I hate to say, tied, but they didn't know what they were looking for. They, like you, did a fabulous job of finding him and looking for him, and they had a task force as well,

with a huge amount of officers on board. But I believe they just took every female picture in his home when I don't believe it was one hundred and eighty, but who knew back then when they rested in twenty ten, when he's been killing for three decades, you know, the number is just probably astronomical. And I believe that. I think he was convicted of ten or eleven, but I know for a fact it's way more than that because some of these souls were never found.

need for money, how do you do that quickly? I will assume that's what happened, because every one of these victims had drugs in their system, So that leads you to believe that they were on drugs at the time and probably had an addiction problem. So a strawberry, from what I believe, is a female that doesn't take money for sex. They take drugs for sex. And that's what the strawberry is. And that was the name made up in South central LA in the eighties because of the

crack epidemic, and that's what Franklin did. He'd actually get the drugs for these women. So it wasn't necessarily money was exchanged, it was more so drugs were exchanged.

fool them? Were they aware of his propensity for violence or what was the How did they view him?

It was a shock to a lot of those females on the street, and he'd have them over at his home and then I think he let some of them go. I don't know what the reason was, but some of them he never was violent with them. If he was violent with a woman, he killed.

and determined she was. But again I thought we'd mentioned that because we explained a little bit later what you find out on what people conclude is that we come back to that very important event that he was did barely even a year, and it seems like no one knew till much much later in time. Let's use this as an opportunity, Victoria, just to stop for a second to speak about our sponsor, Blue Apron. Blue Apron delivers farm fresh ingredients and step by step recipes to your door.

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entire story. This Aneitra Washington, and this is November twentieth, nineteen eighty eight. Tell us what she recalls for the police. Tell us about her ordeal, what happens that day, how she comes to bump into Lonnie Franklin Junior, how he convinces her to come with him in the vehicle, and how it comes to be that he tries to kill her, and how does he do that?

she looked at the car, not him. And of course I wasn't there so many decades ago, so I'm just relaying what I can remember from the trials and what she said to me personally, which is when I went there, so didn't quite interview her, but I did here to speak to him, and she saw this Pinto looking at it. He got to out of the car and said you want to ride, and she said no, And then he asked again and she said no. She didn't want to get in the car. She just wanted to look at it.

And I think the third time he asked if she wanted to ride, and she said. He said to her, black women like you that have got an attitude. He implied that she had an attitude, and she didn't like that, and she wanted to prove to him that she's not that way, So she got in the car. What did she have to lose at that time, she thought she had nothing to lose, and she said that she'd go you can come to the party something like that. So

she told him the address of the party. And the only reason, according to anitra, why she got in the car was to just prove him wrong that black women don't have attitudes or don't have attitudes, not enough to get in the car. She just doesn't like short guys, and Lonie Franklin is short, so why would she get in the car. It was It was a little bit vague, but point being is, on the third attempt, she got in the car and gave the address, and he stopped

off of a house on the way. I think I personally believe it was his own house because he'd forgotten the gun, so I think he went back to his

own house to get the gun. And he got back in the car, and that's when she realized that she's driving nowhere near where the house was that she wanted to get to, and he kept driving on different streets, and at that moment, when she was challenging him, he pulled out the gun and shut her at point blank range with Adria the tray two caliber the twenty twoh cliber pistol, and I hit him right in the chest.

I mean, she was minutes from dying. She was then thrown right out of the car onto the street, onto the pavement, and she was just crawling, pulling herself along the park cars along the side, just to get to her friend's house. Thank god. Her friends, I think it was one of her best friends lived very close by, and the friend was out and didn't come home till, thank god, minutes later to see her friend Anitra lying on her porch, pouring with blood, going in and out

of consciousness. I mean, she thought she was going to die and going back. So when she was in the car and she'd been shot and she was going in and out of consciousness, she remembers saying that I will haunt you if I die. If you have killed me, I will haunt you for the rest of your life. So that was a plan if she was going to miss her life that day. And then she remembered, and she recounted all of what was in his car, and

I believe there was stuff for kids in the car. Well, of course Christopher and Chrystopher were kids at the time. That's his son and daughter, so it would make sense everything fits this pinto and all about the car. And I mean, she was so profound where she came across so strong and articulate that I believe she's and well, of course LAPD they solved the whole thing that they got him convicted on ballistics, of course, DNA ballistics and her testimony. I witnessed testimony birth hand.

But that stuck out in her mind. There wasn't enough to arrest him on because I don't think they knew and the cops didn't know anyone with the pencil at the time. I don't know about that. See, that's very vague to me. It was vague in the trial as well.

other one who killed with his bare hands. Now, Chester Turner is a three hundred and fifty pounds retired gangmen, but he calls himself an og in Ol gangster, and with a scar across his face, he could snap anybody's neck in a minute. So, but Lonie Franklin is very frail, seven of a guy. Hence he used a gun because I didn't know he couldn't use his hands. I think he tried to strangle one of them once and it didn't work, so he shot her. So that was his

m O. That was the way he killed them. So they the cups knew just for them that there were two different guys that were looking for You.

I don't believe you won. But he was sunny, a coup that went bad, but certainly not the killer.

State killer case. If they're are familiar with this term, familiar familial DNA analysis, So please start to look at that technique of DNA analysis and take a look if that would work in their search for the Graham Sleeper. So tell us what that how they do that, and of course we know the result.

So what happened in I think early two thousands, that was when his DNA was taken, but when before Lone Franklin got arrested, so it must have been near to two thousand and nine twenty ten. They found that the DNA that they had on all of these bodies, the same DNA was a not a direct match to that was what was in their system, but it was a familial match. The DNA was a familial match, and that's when they realized it has to be a family man

of Christopher Franklin. And from what I believe, I believe they went and looked for the uncle first, that's Christopher Franklin's uncle, so Lonie Franklin's brother. He lived out the Inland Empire, I believe Rancho Cook amonga someone like that, and they were looking at him. But he realized that the crimes were in a four mile radius of south central why would he come all the way each time

out there? And then then they realized or the brother, which is the actual father of Christopher Franklin, why didn't they look for him or look at him? And they did, and they followed him. And it was in that fateful day in early July that they followed him to a pizza restaurant and the crops were brilliant. I mean, they dressed up as bus boys. They had a tray to collect everything that he would discard or after he didn't eat it, and that was a piece of pizza with

the cheese on it. And I believe that the DNA was taken from the cheese of the pizza crust that was left on the plate, along with a napkin, and along with a glass of water, and all of that was put on a tray and taken as evidence. And of course, the lunatic defense guy, the defense attorney, was saying that it was illegally got hold of, which I mean everything fell through. I mean, it wasn't illegally got

hold of. And that's what's one of his attempts to stole the case and make it, you know, have a hung jury or something like that. But it didn't. So that's what they did. They found it and then they got the such one. I think it was July seventh, and they went in and it took them three days to get all the evidence. They had a huge Kamando set out as well.

is what I think. The victims that were not found, or the identifications and photographs in the garage of the people that were never identified and never found. I believe that because he knew where he discarded them, the next morning he could do his normal truck routes, garbage truck route, picking up the bodies that he'd killed that night before and take them to the dump and then they were never again. But after a number of years it went

to a two men truck. But I believe that the name the grim Sleeper was when he was apparently lying dormant for fourteen years. I don't believe he was. I think he was killing the entire time, but the bodies were not discovered because he was in a one man truck. And now that never came out in trial. That is just my opinion. But a one man truck, you can get away with murders. He excuse a pun but you can really get away with anything.

other guys are fabulous. I mean it could have been done without them. But it's just I had the rapport with Duprix because Dupree is one that has a report with everybody.

Judge Kathleen Kennedy, she was excellent. I mean, she's dealing with probably the best prosecutor in America in Best Silverman. She's a class act. She knows her stuff, she knows everything. She's articulate, she's got a fact dawnage. She's strong, and she's respectable. Of everybody in the courtroom. You've got the village idiot against her right on the other side of the table, who's defending the serial killer. And you can't hold back but to lose the plot. And Judge Kennedy

had to sort it out all the time. There was always there was I think he got fined for something. He would have outbursts. He would drop his suitcase, his boycase all over the floor. He'd come in late, his hair was all disheveled. He actually dropped the gun. He actually dropped the gun. I think I wrote that in my book when there was a witness on the stand. I mean, if you want Lauren Hardy, I mean Lauren and Hardy. But at least stan Laurel was It was

a good man. He ruined the lives of these innocent family members by delaying the process, hoping that cops would lose the evidence, witnesses wouldn't come forward, witnesses would die. But he didn't think that these innocent family members. They were elderly as well, and they had to take the bus there, or they had to drive there. They had to take time up, work, or out of their day every day just to get justice served for their loved one.

And I blame it all on Senor Answer for acting so unprofessionally and crueling and not only costing the system thousands of dollars in costomer US taxpayers, that's secondary importantly what he did to those two family members, and of course tying up Lawin's for us in his time. Everything he did was completely selfish and totally unprofessional.

some of them aged, would have to come there. You it's very visual scenes that you write in the book about the family members that come there all the time, the stepmother of Barbara Ware, the Alexander family, mother, brother, sister, I believe tell us a little bit about that very emotional their involvement in this very emotional and personal trial.

They would look at me and roll their eyes because they could not believe that the human being would be this distasteful and just unprofessional. So they held it together far better than you know I did. I did say a few things are choice words against him. And of course out in the corridor I was able to speak to the Alexander family quite a bit, and they just were just good people, kind people wanting justice for their sister,

their daughter. And then the last day of the actual I think it was the sentence thing or whatever it was. When each of them were able to get up to speak, I mean, there was not a dry eye in the gallery. There was not a dry eyed. You felt their pain that they'd had for decades and decades, and then finally justice was served. But justice could have been served back in twenty eleven, a year after he'd been charged with

these crimes, these murders. It could have been done in twenty eleven, and as I said, the defense was the one holding up the process. So the family members were there, and they were there because they knew they had to be. They wanted to be there because they felt each of their loved ones were there with them in that courtroom. That's what they would tell me. So it was what There was nothing else they would do. There was nowhere else they would go but that courtrum to see justice served.

Beautiful people, pure Christian, good god fearing, wonderful people. These families are.

maybe much and probably more. She was at the trial, she's the star witness, of course, but then she's at the penalty phase, is after this guy's been given the death sentence by a jury or recommended. What It's very dramatic. So what does she say about Lonnie Franklin when she has the opportunity in the very end, when he's sentenced.

described everything so vividly and so specifically. She just had such disdain for him, and she was brilliant.

So they were so close, yet they were so different in personality, so she would tell me all about the difference, but they were just they were very close. And she took that path and she went in the academy, and her sister was very excited for her going in the sheriff academy. But what happened was I believe that it was when the day she was already in the academy, So it was right before the academy that Alisha was

happy and excited about her sister doing this. But it was when she was actually in beginning the academy when she was told that her sister had been killed. So you can imagine how much that affected her. And she still made it through it, probably with the strength and the support of her sister in heaven giving her that strength to go on with the academy and made it as a sheriff. And she's been a sheriff so gosh, I think three decades. She's an amazing person.

but other witnesses, other suspected people about other murders. They brought in everything they possibly could to try to convince the jury and the judge to make sure that this person would be considered the worst of the worst and deserving of the death penalty. She came in to testify.

And when I mentioned this just a little while ago, I wanted to say that psychologically, you conclude in this book as well, that someone concludes that really what happened in Germany was when he was fooled by this woman who had been gang raped the night before, that from that point on that when a woman he perceived as would have deceived him, then that's when he would take his Then he would then resort to violence and murder because of a perceived slight.

possibly challenging him on something. And he can't take being challenged. As I said, you know, he's got the short man's complex, he's got the inferior ority complex from being a bullet as a child. So no, he was not going to have that happen again. So more than deceive, I would say he was challenged and that's it he snapped. But

I also think it was premeditated. He would get these women in the car and know that they were going to be killed, so that at the point that he killed them was when they probably challenged him on something. I wasn't in the car. You know, we don't really know. And of course I didn't speak to him about specifically about his crimes because he was not He was in trial and he was in the jail. He hadn't got

to death row. Now he's on death row. Along with seven hundred and forty eight others, because there's seven hundred and forty nine people on California death row, and you know he's going to sit there until he died of natural causes. He won't begin in the death penalty sadly. Oh, people sit there like everybody else because of this liberal state that won't kill anybody.

a new book about that case. Maybe just tell us a little bit before we let you go about what you're working on as a result of these two cases coming up around the same time at trial.

is in prison right now in Wisconsin. But it was him instrumental in getting me the extra time with Lonnie Franklin because he ran the jail and he's known me since I was nineteen, but I didn't know it was him, So it was just very sweet, sadly, in twenty eleven, in the summer of twy eleven, they FBI decided to smuggle a cell phone into the men's Central Jail, one

of the most illegal forms of contraband. They smuggled into a man by the name of Anthony Brown facing four hundred and twenty or twenty five years in state prison. His cellmate was a guy that was up for attempted homicide.

They smuggled that in illegally. They didn't ask Shriff's department permission first, and in fact, they were quite evasive about even working with the shriff's department when the Shriff's department wanted to just reach out and say what are we doing here with the cell phone, when, of course it was discovered that the last calls was an FBI building.

So Shriff's department were wanted to work with the FBI, let's investigate jail abuse, if that's what you're here for, Because they were investigating jail abuse, which is actually what's called discipline in a Republican world anyway, So they're investigating jail abuse in lifetime because they wanted this Anthony Brown to take video of lifetime in lifetime of abuse that went on, which really wasn't so nothing was on the phone.

But because the FBI weren't working with the Sheriff's department, they then it became a tough war, and then they hit the inmate. Because the inmate was a risk to himself. It was a danger to have him in the general population, so they hit him. They took him away from the Men Central Jail to Sandy miss Jail, they changed his name, they took him out of the system. So when the FBI went to visit him, they said, there's never been somebody here called Anthony Brown. Well, then the fight was on.

But they were doing it for their own protection and for Anthony Brown's protection. And the FBI would say differently. They would say that the Sheriff's Department were obstructing a federal investigation and conspiracy to obstruct a federal investigation. When the Sheriff's department went to Leah Marx's home. She was Special Agent March. She was the one who actually was the person who got the cell phone smuggled then buy a dirty cop by the name of Pilbert Michelle into

the jail. They went to her and they said, we've got a warrant for your rescue, but not come to our jail. Well that wasn't true. So another charge on all these six deputy sergeants, lieutenants at the under sheriff, and a captain. They were all charged with conspiracy to obstruct an investigation, obstructing a federal investigation, and lying to

federal investigators. So yes, this is what happened. So while that cell phone and the scandal was going on, I was visiting alone with Franklin when the trial came up from my dear friends who all known me since I was nineteen. I went there and I heard the testimony and I heard and I was in some of the trials. So I was running from the federal building to the criminal courts building and trying to cover both trials at

the same time. It was a bit tough, but I've got the energy to do it and I did as much as I could. I would like to work on a book. It is be a fabulous book, but who would my readers be. That's the only thing. Because it is very specific to the Los Angeles Cantiyhiriff's Department. Every single one of them, I believe, in my opinion, are wrongly convicted. They were just following orders from above. They were just pulling those orders of the Undershare of Tanaka

and they did what they were told. Not one of them deserves to be in prison. And it's devastating because one of these innocent men, Sergeant to Scott Craig, has got stage four cancer and they won't even let him out a few months early. So it's horrible. And I went to visit Lieutenant Greg Thompson in Wisconsin. In Oxford, I went out to visit him about five months ago while I was in between working on ships. So yes,

I visited him as well. And I'm in touch with them every day on the email because they can email out of prison. And I work out with the captain who's now out of prison as well. I work out with him every morning at the gym. I won't say where I live, but I work. When I'm in between ships like i am for a few months, I work out at a gym. Finally with the Captain of Internal Criminal Investigations Bureau. So they've been through the ring of these guys.

want to take a look at you rather work. Do you have a Facebook page website?

work on camera. I did yesterday TV show which I'll put on my Facebook page soon and absolutely Facebook and Twitter, sometimes Instagram, but mainly Facebook is where my work is and my website Victoriaredstore dot com.