THE CHARMER-Richard Muti and Charles Buckley

The Reeves ultimately got an unheard of ten million dollar judgment against their daughter's killer, effectively stripping the man known as America's richest inmate. Soon after Susan's murder, the Reefs set up a scholarship fund in her name, and the killer's money is currently used in that fund, which helps

it helps to educate young men and women. The charmer embraces the hunt to bring Susan's killer to justice and then the chase of a lifetime a one family determined to give their slain daughter a voice decades after she was silenced. The book this evening that we're going to be profiling is The Charmer, The true story of Robert reldn rapist, murderer, and millionaire and the women who fell victim to his allure by Richard Mute and Charles Buckley.

And with me this evening, I have Charles Buckley on the line, and thank you Charles Buckley for agreed to this interview, and well, welcome to True Murder.

enjoy this one. Now let's start off with given a time frame for this, because this is not a crime that occurred currently, you know, recently, So give us the time frame and give us the community that Robert Reldin grew up in, give us what his parents were like, and tell us a little bit about the life of Robert Reldin so we can really understand the character of this very fascinating killer. So take us back to sort of where these crimes are started in the mid seventies.

But let's go back to Robert Reldin and where he grew up and how he grew up and what his parents were like. Take us back to their please.

things of that nature. He went through the juvenile system in the state of New Jersey and several times he was a given psychiatric treatments at the state hospitals. On two occasions he was directed by the juvenile courts to who they could be on probation, but he had to under undergo psychiatric treatment on each occasion. He just went once and it didn't bother to come again. His aunt Lilian had married very well. She married Ferris Booth, who was the son of one of the founders of IBM,

himself a multi millionaire. He died after approximately ten years of their relationship, leaving her fifty million dollars. She became one of the focal points in the family and that she was generous with her money to the family. She was extremely generous to society in terms of giving millions of dollars to hospitals, to actors' homes and things of that nature. And that may have been one of the problems which sent Robert Reldon off on the tam that

ultimately resulted in two murders. He seemed to feel that he was being short changed, that the thousand dollars gift at Christmas time was not enough for him, the brand new volkswagens he gave when he came out of prison was not enough for him, because she was buying a Cadillac, two Cadillacs every year for herself and her living friend. So this disturb realvant it seemed to be on this basis he developed this hatred and this was really brought

forth in all the psychiatric reports. There was a hatred towards women. It just he focused on them and everyone's all the psychiatrists seemed to believe. It came from this built that idea of the relate, what the relationship should be between Lilian and himself. So he just the parents continually support him all through his criminal career. In fact, you recall the case where he planned, while in state prison to have his aunt Lillian murdered in order to gain his inheritance early.

that had money. His family had money. And like you say, you were alluding to and intimating about his family supporting him through even though his juvenile delinquency. It was much more than that, wasn't it, Because you say that it really was.

anyone could was aware of. But Relvyn just started on this course of juvenile activities, breaking into homes, stealing cars, stealing tires, which I said, as I said, ended up continued problems with the juvenile court system of New Jersey. He ultimately was convicted in New York. Happened in New York. He was arrested for a theft of an automobile. Now, they didn't want to waste the time in New York on this peanut charge, but he had this ongoing juvenile

probation in New York State. So what they did was they sentenced him under that violation probation to three years in the prison in New York State. He served his time, got out of Great Meadows, which where He's served his time, and within a month he sexually assaulted a woman in Fort Lee and that was the beginning really of his adult criminal activities. He then got down to Florida, committed two crimes, two minor crimes down there, and then came

back to North Arlington, back New Jersey, was arrested. Now we're in nineteen sixty three. Now just back the assault on marine here Hernandez was a month after his parole. The two crimes in Florida were in December of sixty to sixty two and January sixty three. In December nineteen sixty three, he's arrested for about ten various crimes in

New York State and in New Jersey. So I mean he really had been He's done to accumulate criminal episodes his life, all the time living at home when he wasn't in jail and being supported by his family.

an indication of the psychopathic mind. I know it's maybe a cliche, but this guy at a very early age, maybe fifteen or so, really shows all those tendencies towards very home engageing's sexual assault, you know, theft for no reason. Really doesn't need the money that much. It's not really he's not poor or anything. No, there seems to be. So it really seems to be a portrait of a psychopathic killer that keeps accelerating, and his ego is incredible,

and of course he's narcissistic and it gets in his way. Ultimately, it's a very interesting story. So by the time, tell us what age and by what age is he now in contact with is Adam Marie Hernandez, and tell us about that crime, because that's really the beginning of how the most serious stuff he's doing.

started sexually assaulting her. Fortunately for Marie, the other co conspirator, the other guy involved in the and to break in him and told Relden to knock it off and let's get on what we have to do trying to steal the money. And he did stop at that time after you know, mishandling her and touching her in an attempt to begin an a sexual assault. So that was he's only at that time at sixty two, he's twenty two years old. He's a month out of prison. He then

runs to he leaves the state. Then I think he's he's looking for to get away from the possibility to make him back to haunt them, although he hadn't been identified yet. And as I said, he went to Florida, he went to Missouri for a while, he was in Connecticut, but then he came back to New Jersey and in the summer of sixty three, he's now twenty three years old, he's arrested by the Closter Police carrying a gun in

the car. He's arrested by the North Arlington Police in New Jersey for breaking and entering and striking a woman with a tire iron, the resident of the house. He's arrested by the Fort Lee Police on the Maria Hernandez assault. This is almost a year later when they finally get

around to identifying them. So in the meantime, while all this is going on in New Jersey, he is making daily trips over the George Washington Bridge, committing a series of assaults on elderly women in the Northwest area of Manhattan Island, where he follows them into an elevator, and this goes to his allure, his charm. He's very polite your floor, he presses the elevator button for him. He only gets in if there's one woman on the elevator, and they are just put at ease by his manner.

He has this just charming way about him. Every woman who's involved in he's as victims, talks about the initial response to him is one of trust and confidence. And what he does then, his signature is to grab them by the throat, choke them, steal their pocketbook, jewelry or whatever, get out of the elevator, press a button and send them up. Well, he runs and goes and hiding, and the New York police finally track him over to New Jersey in early nineteen sixty four. That's for these nineteen

sixty three crimes. And the end result of all this is he works out plea bargains all over the place, and the deal is he'll plead to anything as long as it doesn't involve violence or assaults on women. He pleads to the guns in the car, he pleads the breaking entries, and for ten crimes, for ten separate crimes, he receives what is an effect one five year sentence, and he does that in New York and New Jersey just throws there their sentences doing in New York state.

And after all this, he's paroled in September of nineteen sixty six, having done only two and a half years for all these ten crimes. So, I mean, he's really moving up the ladder very quickly.

he was able to move along. And he's prolled after doing only two and a half years for ten crimes, seven of which involved assaults on women, sexual assaults, some non sexual, just violent robberies, things of that nature. So he had put the.

she'll do whatever he wants. But he doesn't get along well with his father, and he's on parole, but he dance permission to go to Florida with his father, and the father is thinking of starting another restaurant down there. And he meets Judith Rosenberg and within the day she says she's already fallen in love with him. And that's the kind of effect he has on women. He is just that personable, that engaging that women fall for him. And she says she fell in love with him the

first day she's married. She has an abusive husband. He's a mob all with a mob in Illinois. He can't go with her because he's under indictment in Illinois. Reldon and Judah Rosenberg become quite friendly in a very short time. She goes back and her husband has found murdered in the trunk of a car. She immediately calls Reldin and asks him to come out and stay with her. Reldn is on parole, he can't leave the state without permission. He just goes immediately and leaves it without se Judas.

So they have in this day or so, just formed this strong relationship. Now, this is in January of sixty seven. He meets her and gets started with her now April of sixty seven. Two months later is when he commits a rape of Bernice Caplan, then tenafly in New Jersey, and again using a chokehold he gains He gains entry into her house by posing as someone making a delivery

of cleaning material, cleaning pants, things of that nature. She is at first leary, but being confidence built into her by his charm and his gentle manner, she lets him come into the house. Then he rapes her. I mean, it's it's just that easy for him. He threatens to kill her if she if she doesn't give in to his demands, he threatens to kill her son if he shows up. She claims he's coming in, you better run. Think of that nature. He says, I'll kill him if he goes. I have a gun. So he gets away

with I mean he has that crime. He's immediately arrested within two days because the identification is so easy him being on parole, he's easy. They forced to come into police station where she sees him and identifies him. But now one of the flunky things starts. He has a trial. They got over.

family behind them. They're in court every day. He's nice, he smiles at the jury, acting very polite, very condescending, and someone on the jury, we don't know who or how many, they refuse to convict him. So now he's he's he's developing this this skill in front of juries that I'm a nice guy. I wouldn't do anything like this. Look at my family with me, and there's a hung jury. Now you know you're health. Hung juries are rare in

criminal cases. I mean that happens, but the general run of the mill, either he's guilty or he's not guilty. But here we have a hung jury. He's tried again, and at this time he's convicted, fortunately, and he receives a sentence to the prison with a mandatory a maximum of thirty years in jail for the rape to be too under to his time at a treatment center, not not the the real basic prisons routine that would be

in place. And he comes and cut it, comes in touch with a man who's who's the psychologist at the prison, Prendergast, who almost falls in love, I mean he's under the spell of Relben himself. And this guy starts writing parole letters for Relvin within within three years, based on based on prender gas strong earth urging to the parole board that this is not a this is not a sexual pervert. This crime had to do with his hatred of his aunt,

his mother, and he's ridden. Now Trey cured of that problem, let him out of jail. He gets out of jail within five months. He assaults another woman, so Blanche Mott in but touching by attacking her and her carth trying to rob her and possibly rape her too. So now we're talking, you know, it's up to seventy one. He's

now into his third sexual assault charge. They send him back to jail again and he stays in jail on this initial thirty year rape charge and now he gets five to seven years on the assault on Blanche Mott in Middlesex County. But he's finally paroled in May of nineteen seventy five, and that takes us up to everything up to before the murders.

He knows how to turn on the charm. One of the reasons that the parents just couldn't believe he had raped the Missus Caplin was because he had so many girlfriends at the time he raped. He raped Missus Caplin. He had two girlfriends in New Jersey that they didn't know about each other, and he also had Judith Rosenberg from Illinois, who he ultimately married. But women just were all over him no matter, you know, whatever it is

and what charm he had. I never really spoken to the man, but the women who have dealt with him saying his initial his initial contact with them just causes them to drop their guard. So it's hard to explain what he looks like. He's a he's a good looking guy, and he's he's very muscular, well built, well mannered. He's got a lot going for him, and he could he

I mean, he brags about his ability with women. I mean he just that's one of his strong points is he's telling telling people in jail, but Williams brothers he never had any trouble with women, so that that's his makeup.

You know, maybe that's why he seemed to be charming. Of course, maybe he wasn't abusive, but he must have seemed like a preppy dream compared to maybe the mobster that she was or gangster that she was with.

falls in love him right away. In fact, she waits for him while he well, he does his time on the rape, on the Captain rape. I mean, she's she's comes here. She stays in Illinois until he's about ready to get released because of all of mister prendergass effort, and she then comes right to uh live with a

father and mother in close during Burton County. So and then then when he does get paroled, they immediately get married and you know, they put up get together in a place up in just over the border into New York State. Which is interesting because it's one of the heavy factors in terms of tying him to these murders that where he lived was in close close proximity to where these bodies are ultimately found. So it became an important piece of evidence.

supposed to go out of state to reside. He's supposed to live in New Jersey, but he now he's taken a chance of living up in New York State with her, which would be a violation of parole if he's caught, But then he would be sent back to jail. So there's a lot of pressure on him. But they get married almost immediately in June of nineteen seventy five, and he's a I mean, he takes as far as we know,

he takes his marriage very seriously. He does have another fling with another girl, Roberta Gimbal, who he takes to another place exactly a place where the second body is initially located. I mean, she is an important witness to say, well, that's within one hundred feet of where Bobby and I had had a picnic one day. This is early in July probably of nineteen seventy five. So they live a couple of months as man and wife, and it seems, I mean he's now into a business. He's got a

contracting business, odd jobs. He'll do all kinds of construction things like that. And he's the day the first the first woman disappears, he happens to go over to Westwood, the Westwood area, to get this car engine cleaned. Now, I don't know if you want to get into the specific details of the where missus Haynes was picked off or just sure you want me to go from here?

He's got these two girlfriends in the area. He's got Judith down in Florida now back in Illinois, and he's driving home from having dinner with one of the girlfriends in the morning. His father is pressuring him about this business they want to open up in Florida, and Reldyn his route home would take him right past the route that missus Caplan would pass coming home from delivering passover cookies to her mother over in Hackensack, So the route

they would take would bring them into close proximity. There is no reason where Relvin was in the area where missus Caplin lived. He had no business there, he didn't know her. There was It just the situation where he happened to see her. Now, whatever it was in his mind at that time which snapped, it was just that kind of incident with no rhyme or reason. He saw her, and he followed her, and he made the decision he was gonna do what he did to her for some reason,

and no one can explain it. We don't know why, but he follows her to the house, and as I said, he gains entry by entry by a subterfusion, and then he rapes her. Well, the same thing happened to missus Haynes. He's coming back from this boat having the engine cleaned

on the car. She's traveling the same road. It would be four or five miles that they're driving along this road and that time are all in sync with when she was at the office trying to get this job, and when he was having the engine clean and he sees her drive into her driveway, and he evidently goes down the street, turns around, comes back and drives up in the driveway. He makes those kind of instantaneous decisions, whatever it was, or whatever it causes it, the pressures

of the day, what he was under. That seems to be the gist of why it happens he's under for some reason. He snaps because there's absolutely no contact between him and his victims at this stage his life before the assaults occur, and he takes her and he gets control of her and she disappears from the house. There's no sign of any problem in the house. Nothing's overturned he didn't get into the house. He caught her in the driveway as she was leaving the house to go

to the office. So and that was the last anyone saw of her. So that's that's the thing that jumps out of you with with what happens at these all of these things that happened Blanche Monty when when he assaulted her in Middlesex County, he never saw her before what happened there. He was coming out of the hospital

from from visiting, uh mister Prendergasted. He was having trouble at home because his salary had been cut at work and he was he was in having some money troubles and he felt Aunt Lilian wasn't being as generous she could to him, And all of a sudden he sees missus mont drive by him, and he follows her out of the hospital parking lot down the street about a mile to her home in a big apartment complex, follows her around, lets her drive into her garage, and races

down and attempts to assault and reape her. So it's it always seems that he's under some sort of tremendous pressure, mental pressure at the time he snaps and does these things. So that was missus Haynes. And now the next week that happened on October sixth and seventy five. On October fourteenth, he's sand blasting the house. He got a job sand blasting the house. His wife, who worked for a company in the area, got another coworker from her company to

help him with a sand blasting. They're working hard all day long, but they don't accomplish as much as they wanted to because the sand blasting mask got broken. So it's a frustrating, a frustrating day for him. Things aren't going right. He's driving home now and who does he see? Susan Reeve get off a bus, a pretty young girl, the bright dress, smiling, blonde, and he makes a sharp left at turn. He's almost by it, according to the

Favassinis who see him. And he's races up this street, passing her and we think, waiting for her to reach up a point further up the street. She has about a quarter of a mile to a half mile walk to get to her the area where her house is up that street, and he waits for her and grabs her as she's walking up that way, and she's taken in the car and never seen again. Now there are some witnesses or a special witness who happens to see a lot of this, But that's that's what happened. And

there's always a pressure situation. It causes Reldon I think, to snap and do these you know, these criminal acts.

acceleration as well. You know, within a week, two murders, I mean, yeah, well on your way to serial killer fame and infamy, you know. So he just now I'm sorry, okay, sorry what what? Okay? So we're into the second week here, he has this murder, These people disappear from the face of the euros continue. How does how does he how does he unwind or how does he further unravel? What does he do? What does his wife do?

a you know, a crime. There was a crime involved. Here was a more thought in terms of a woman who's just trying to resolve this unhappiness she's under because of the living conditions she's she's undergoing here. It's not till about four days we're one of the one of police, the police chief in Hallworth I think it was makes the comment that we may be looking at something more than more than just a you know, an unhappy, unhappy woman,

unhappy life. When the second, when the second girl, Susan Reeve, disappears, I mean, it's it's clear that there is a serious problem. And I lived. I lived in that area what's called the Northern Valley area, and I can tell you this second the disappearance of this second girl caused tremendous fear throughout throughout the area. They just no one was certain as to what had happened, and it just was too

too coincidental to think that there's these two women. And even even the first witness really wasn't sure that it was Reldin at that time. Reldin who had had been the one who was with Susan Reeves his identification mister Low's ear. The problem was Reldon had been working in sand blasting all day long. He's been doing it without a mask for most of the day, and he was covered with sort he hadn't had time to clean up.

And the initial description of Reldon was he was sort of Hispanic dark, you know, and it was really, I mean, is confusing because the color that he had was because of the work he'd been doing, so I mean it was there was tremendous uncertainty as to just what the you know, what the situation was. But what the police do in cases like this, they start looking through the recent parole lists, you know, people who have sexual crimes, crimes of that nature, and Realda's name came up very quickly.

And here's here's the interesting part of this. How how the case really the solving of the case of the if you're interested in this, the the factors that really led to identifying him as the guy who was the probable killer. And yet the bodies hadn't even been discovered yet. Reldon on the on the the twenty first day of October. Now, these two girls had want of disappeared on the sixth and one of the fourteenth. It's now the twenty twenty

first day of October. And one of the jobs up at Pulman State Park, one of the people have to do is go down and check the chlorine level at the discharge from the pool. And there's an area where it flows into the river and you test the water. And on the twenty first it's checked by Michael Bettman and he finds that the chlorine is fine, and on the same day, Robert Relvan is over in Macy's trying to point a ring, an engagement ring. Now this ring

was not your typical engagement ring. Was a very special ring, specifically made and sold over in London and Harris a big department store over there, and it was very easily identifiable. And on that day he pawned it for one hundred dollars. I think it was worth a lot more, but he took one hundred dollars. That night, he comes home and there's a call from the prosecut's office erecting him to come down tomorrow to the prosecutor's office. They want to speak to him. He has to go because he's out

on parole. But now he's thinking, yesterday I pulled the ring. They're making me come down today. He had no idea how much they knew or anything, and they really didn't know anything. They just wanted him to come in to me speak to him. So he's spoken to him. Now he panics. The next day he goes back to Macy's and he wants his ring back. They have to keep it for fifteen days if somebody wants to redeem it. They have to let them buy it back, but the

ring can't be found. That he causes such a stink in the office, screaming about this ring he's got to have. They have to cause security to calm him down. Finally the ring is found and he leaves with the ring, and that's the last time that ring has ever seen. But now later on security when he's arrested later for these a couple of stupid break ins the houses. Security from Macy's calls the prosecutors often tells them about this situation involving the ring. If he hadn't made such a

stink that that never would have happened. They never would have found it. And the ring and his possession of it was the most vital piece of evidence they had. This ring belonged to missus Haynes, and it was the most significant piece of evidence we had with respect to who who murdered her? So uh what happened?

State Park. That is exactly where Reldon and ROBERTA. Gimbal had had a picnic on a day in August in nineteen seventy five, a month or so before this happened. And the interesting thing was that body was found by the fellow who comes down to check the chlorine level. Again, it wasn't there on the twenty first, but this is there on the twenty eighth, I think twenty not whatever the date was. And the body, the second body had

willow lees. As the body had started to disintegrate, willow leies had fallen on and started to become imbued in the in the in the body as it started to bleach out as the body started melting, and there were no willow leaves in that particular area, not the willow trees in that area, but where Susan Haynes's body was found, there were plenty of willow willow trees. So the body which had not been in the water in the lake in the Tallman State Park clearly had been at a

different location at least some period of time. And it was in that week between the time of the two examinations of the water in the pipe believing the pool. And that's exactly when Reldon got panicked and started to do things to try and cover up these murders. And and one of the things that he admitted to the Williams brothers while he was in jail that he had

moved the bodies and he shouldn't have done that. He he he tried to put them up in New York State to get away from police looking at him, and it just didn't work. And moving the bodies, he said, was a mistake. So they were the things that really started, you know, made everyone pretty sure that Relvin was the person who was involved in these killings.

There was people who had seen them in close proximity to a car which was exactly like the car that Relvin had and there's a picture of it in the book. It's a truck car really loaded with working equipment, things of that nature. So they didn't do anything yet and they're still trying to accumulate evidence because like the call

from Macy's didn't come for a week or so. But we were told the police were told that Reldon, if he was the one who did these murders, the psychologist from Trenton to Hospital not prender Gas, but one of his associates said he's likely to do something really stupid deliberately to get caught. To sort of get him in jail and take him out of the crosshairs of this murder investigation. So what happens on the thirtieth and thirty

first of October. He commits two daylight breaking entries, one right across the street where he's doing his sand blasting on that doctor's house in the daytime with his car there, and one on another one in a house in Norwood where he climbs sight on the second story right well, the woman's in the bedroom, and he runs away. He's

caught and put in jail. He almost immediately pleads guilty those He gets sent away for two to three years in state's prison on the two B and eas and his hope is they're gonna forget about me now they got other things to do. I'm here in state's prison. But so the police do nothing. They can continue really just to try and accumulate evidence against him so he'll arrest him. As matter of fact, he was never arrested

on these charges. He was actually indicted when the investigation was concluded, but he had never been arrested on them. And it's in the prison that he on these charges that he needs to Williams brothers and he gets involved in this plan to murder his aunt to try and get money to he hires Edward Bennett Williams firm Williams and Conley, a big, big time Washington, d C. Law firm.

His aunt gives them seventy five thousand dollars to pay for the initial representation will probably cost them a million and a half dollars altogether, but she gives them seventy five thousand off the bat and maybe two hundred thousand representation then the event she gives him the money to hire them, and it turns out now the police are undergoing this second investigation involving the plan to kill the ant, and he's arrested on that charge while he's in prison

as he's planning this murder, and they back right out of the case. They leave New Jersey then and they're not going to represent him on the murder case.

I mean big time breaking entry guys. They are famous in New Jersey, in the South Jersey area for the number of huge breaking entries and stealing thievery that they've been involved in, and the probably murders too and all. They've never been convicted of that. I mean, witnesses against

them always had a strange way of disappearing just before trial. Anyway, they happen to get sent because they're they've been convicted on a B and E or something down in Trenton, and they they go to Railway State Prison and they are from Atlanta, Atlantic City area, and they know Albert Barber and Barbara vouches for him. These are Barbara Is. He's awed by them. He is, he's like hero worships of them because they're so big. So he is the

one who really recommends them to Relden. He vouches for them, and they now Relden has somehow Here's here's the guy who's just comes into jail and immediately gets a job in the in the UH office with one of the choice jobs in the officers dining room in the in the commissary area because he knows this h Lippert. Miss Slippert was a guard for the prison guard who knew him when he was in jail earlier in New Jersey.

But so they they he speaks for them, Barbara does, and they get to SOB and Reldon gets them hired. He talks to miss Lippert and sure, if you want him, Bob will And that's another indication of the charm this guy had. He gets a prison guard to do his bidding who he wants hired to work with him, and he's very plush jobs and anyone, well everyone in the

prison wants these jobs, but he gets them there. So they are very close and Relden has been thinking, according to the Williams brothers, Reland has been thinking about this plan, what your plan is to rob the end he wants to go there and get a lot of money to help pay for a defense. As it progresses, about the time he is indicted on the murders. Now that happens in January when nineteen seventy seven, I believed January twentieth seventy seven, he's indicted on the murders, and it's a surprise.

He wasn't really didn't think it was going to happen at that time. But he's indicted and now it sort of changes. At the same time. Never mind a robbery, let's murder her. And so the idea is, it's not the Williams brother are going to do to murder because they're in jail with him. He wants it done immediately, and he wants them to provide a hitman. Now, the

Williams brothers don't know if they're being set up. I mean, they are people who are targeted by by law enforcer for years and they didn't know if they were being set up. So one of the things they do if they decide, well, we'll call the police and let them know what's happening. And they reach out to the because the indictment the news. The indictment was released on January twentieth of seventy seven, and it was in the paper.

So the Williams asked his wife to call the prosecutors off in Burn County, and the she calls and tells Ed Benning, who was the chief investigator on the murder cases, that the brothers have information concerning these murders. Now, right away, red flags go up as you start to say, you can't believe much of what the prison inmates tell you. You know, they're looking for a deal, trying to buy some time off their sins, whatever it is. They're looking for something.

But he goes down and talks to him and after telling all the story about this comments that the realvan made about moving the bodies and things like that. They say, oh, by the way, he also got us involved in a plan to kill the ant. And this is like some off the wall. Denning can't believe this is happening, so

but they give it some credence. They see letters back and forth between Relvin, who was transferred from Railway to Trends State Prison after he's indicted on the murders, a more secure location, and now there's al Barbera and Reldon are sending letters back and forth which have references to this job, this other job that needs to be done

involving the Williams brothers. So they finally decide to have a meeting with a guy that the Williams brothers have selected, and it turns out to be a Nick Gallo, who is an investigator that I worked with in the Burton County Prosecutor's office. He's a guy who's very good at this kind of work. He's done many of them. He goes down and has the conversations with Reldon in jail, and then the second one. I mean that it's a face to face in the prison. Reldon lays it all out.

He wants this woman killed. It doesn't bother him that it's his aunt. He wants the boyfriend killed. He wants it done. He can't be done till May because he needs he needs the aunt to make the money available for the defense on the murder cases. So he doesn't want anything to interfere with that until after, after that's

all set up, then then they can murder him. So it's that time after all that goes, I think it's it's sometime in March thirtieth something like that that they get down to rest Albert Barber and Robert Reldon for the murders and moving Williams brothers out of Trenton because their lives were in danger once it became known that they had rated on the on Reldon. So that I mean,

then it happens. You know that the relbn's now charged with two indict He's not indicted till April in the in the plan to kill the ant, but by the time May of nineteen seventy seven, nineteen seventy seven, he's got two big indictments. One a plan to kill, conspiracy to kill his aunt and her boyfriend, and murder the murder of Susan Reeve and Susan Haynes. These are both hanging over his head. And now the problem becomes trial. Which case gets tried first? Then how do we proceeed?

withdraw from New Jersey. You know, if you're an out of state attorney and you get permission to come the state to handle a case like this, if you don't, if you want to get out, you've got to get out of almost immediately once you're in for a period of time. Yeah, I won't let you leave. That's the problem. Yea. They made a professional decision, let's get out of here before it's too late and we have to try this relving case and have no money coming in from it. So that's what.

the whole story out. But he says it was frustrated because the prosecutors got their indictments so quickly, he didn't have a chance to tell everyone that he was in on this all the way. I mean, it's a ridiculous, but what else could he say? That?

Bob's sister and himself. That's how they each get eight point nine It was really the mother's money, which which was going to them because the mother had died, so that that's how the money got split up. And so you know, Reldon lost his money, but his sister still has the money and she continues to financially support him, especially with respect whose attempt overturned this this twenty year parole in eligibility that he was hit with the last

time he was up for parole. I mean they denied him at that time and fixed a twenty year additional period before he'd be eligible parole. So they're attacking that through an appeal. And also the state legislature in New Jersey has now changed the law and I think it requires that he get a parole here in every three years, which you know, it's a problem a guy like this with his money. Each year he's gonna come up and they're gonna have all kinds of rons why he should

get out of jail. He's no threat Anymore's sister has the money. He gave up. He gave up his money. I mean, he agreed to the consent judgment for ten million dollars, showing his you know, how generous he is. He didn't want the money. He's sure, give it to missus reed, mister and missus reed, and all these arguments that to why he should get out of jail. But it's being found financed by his sister.

limitations is about two years on civil matters. But back in early in the nineteen ninety they had changed the law on murders with respect to death and you know, the wrongful death. They changed the sadly limitation say, there is no statute of limitations on wrongful death. If you can murder someone and someone will relative can prove a loss of wrongful death a law of income or something like that, you can you can sue. The problem with that is they omitted the survivor aspect of it. Uh,

the survivors are different. Your your claim for survivorship is the loss of companionship, the love and affection you would have had back and forth between the decedent, the person who was murdered and the family, and they had they had omitted that it was an accident. So, uh, mister Reeve hired an attorneymed Robert Zeller, who did an incredible job in terms of changing the law to get this this this overturn, to make also the Survivor Act not

have a statue of limitation. And he did that and actually Governor Corzine signed that bill on almost his last day in office here to change the law. And with that in his pocket, he then he had already filed suit, I mean relevant, offered a million dollars in settlement of this claim. They turned them down. It got to the point where it was going to have to be a trial, and Reldon threw in the towel and agreed to a ten million dollar judging against himself and the money would

be It wasn't immediately all paid out. It was paid because the money's in trust. Really Reldon never had it. It's all held in trust and so it's paid over a period of time and if Realdon, if Reldon dies, that maybe the end of I forget now all the workings and mechanics of this, but the most they get is ten million dollars. They couldn't end up with less. But it doesn't matter. I mean, this man, he's a mister Reeve, is a wonderful guy. Missus Reef she was

in court every day these three murdered trials. It wasn't the money, it was just the idea. He could not stand the idea that this guy would be living to have the benefit of ten million dollars, and he hurted his daughter. He just couldn't stand that. He just was not going to say, you know, until he got this change of straight out.

in love with him. One of the jurors just disregarded her owth completely and just set in there. I am not convicting him. His family's there. They didn't. This man can't have been the one who'd done this. We know that for a fact because one of the jurors was the daughter of a Bergen County Prosecutor's Office detective. Now the defendants knew who she was, but they decided to take her. She was an African American, and I think they liked the idea of having some diversity, maybe you know,

a feeling about police and untrust. Don't trust the police. They put her on. But she told us that that's what happened. This woman fell in love with Realdon and she wasn't. Now that's a third hung jury. It's just an incredible development the second trial because the first trial

had been hung up in that way. I think the county prospectus sied, he's going to throw everything in and he brought in his other crime's evidence involving the rape of Missus Caplin and the assault on Missus Mott ms Mott at the time, and the courts found that that was The trial judge allowed it, but the Colored courts ruled that was too prejudicial defendent, and they threw the conviction out. So it took three trials to try them

for these murders. And the things that happened, I mean, he jumped out the third story window of a courthouse during the second trial while he was in jail between before the appeal, before the conviction was reversed. During the second trial, he developed the friendship with a very pretty woman who was a spectator in the courtroom and she used to talk to him during breaks, which Nick Galloh

was just furious about. Anyway, he gets her to come down to the on Easter Sunday, to come down to the hospital and with a loaded shotgun in the bag ready to help him shoot his way out of jail. I mean, it's hard to believe these six are happening because that was Relton.

happened with Susan Reeve and Susan Haynes. So everyone just says he had to there had to be more, but in terms of being a serial killer, but he just he wasn't. He wasn't in free at the times.

are writing, They're going to write a book. Now, this is nineteen eighty six. They're going to write a book on Robert Reldan, you know about these two murder cases. I well, that's great. So I wait, I mean, I'm now, I'm back to office. I'm doing other things tire in ninety five, but there's never a book I had. Then I get a signed up as the acting prosecutor in Bergen County for a couple of years, and I now

have access to all this information. I've said, let me try and take a look at this and see if I can write a book. And I started writing. I wrote about five chapters. I read it and I realized I don't have the skills that are needed to make this assailable product. But I didn't know rich Beauty, and we worked together in the office, and I knew he had written a book, and I spoke to him. At first, he wasn't too enthused. About it. But then I gave

him about twelve boxes of material. He read through it all. He said, you know, there is a book here. And that's when we started together and pushing put this together. And it's been it was like gues a three year job and it's we're very proud of what we were able to put together. So that's where we stand.

have to really cut out all the fat. And there's a lot of stuff that you got to go through, like you say, boxes and boxes and stuff that could be in there and should be in there maybe, but yeah, and it.

comments or inquiries. But people just love the show, and and thank you very much for coming on explaining about this book The Charmer, about Robert Redland and Reldin pardon me, and his fascinating tale and his incredible and who's stuck by him all the way. It's an amazing story of naivety and and family sticking together just for family's sake. Wow, what a story, you know, So I want to thank you, thank you very.