TED BUNDY: THE YEARLY JOURNAL-Kevin M. Sullivan

As such, this is the first book in a new series of books whose aim is to bring new revelations to the public about Bundy, the victims, the murders, and the almost murders that failed Bundy for one reason or another. This first offering, Ted Bundy the Yearly Journal, Volume one contains a great deal of never before published information from

a number of women who barely escaped his grasp. It also reveals Bundy's geographic hunting pattern after his arrival in Salt Lake City, Utah, in September nineteenth four, a surprising discovery the author never expected to make, but did, and it all came about through the valid testimonies of the

women who encountered him during this period. The book also delves into what the author believes is perhaps an accurate, albeit conservative estimate of how many women or young girls Bundy approached but failed to abduct during his years of murder. Each new volume will focus on particular aspects of the case where further investigation is warranted there are still unknowns out there, and as the author has experienced, where unknowns exist,

the possibility of discovery awaits. The book that we're featuring this evening is Ted Bundy The Yearly Journal, with my special guest journalist and author, Kevin M. Sullivan. Welcome back to the program and thank you very much for this interview.

how this seventh book came about. By talking about the first book, the Bundy Murders, the comprehensive history, and you say that you were happy or you were fortunate enough to work with many of the people involved in the case,

including the top investigators. Jerry Thompson from Salt Lake City Utah Michael J. Fisher, the Colorado investigator Russ Renault and Randy Everett, Idaho investigators, Robert D. Keppel, the Washington State investigators and I reveal Bountiful, Utah detective who worked to Carol deranch case and Don Patchen, the first detective for

the Tellassee Police Department in the Florida Kyomega murders. And Bill Hagmeyer, the retired FB agent from the BSU unit who became very close to Bundy during the last years and spent as many as two hundred hours interviewing Bundy before his execution. It would be from these sources and in depth interviews that followed that new and never before published information surface about several of the murders, along with

new general information about the case. From that decision, Sprang five additional companion volumes tell us about the five companion volumes following the Bundy murders and wende Evers.

And several factors of that information was new informations about the murders that were verifiable and told me about the detectives. So I was, you know, it was a great It turned out to be a great decision for me to delve into Bundy and write that book. But that was It came out in two thousand and nine and I was done with Bundy except for you know, doing podcasts or whatever, or you know, maybe writing an article or a blog. But I didn't really want to write another

book about Bundy. But in twenty fifteen, one of my close contacts with Bundy had passed away, and that was the Rain Fargo. I never got to interview Lorraine for The Bundy Murders, but we became friends afterwards, which she contacted me, and I write about Lorraine in The Bundy Murders. And in fact it was in that book that I don't like to I don't like to speculate about things.

But I had a couple of things about Bundy. In the night that he abducted Kathy Parks, there was a couple of things that I speculated about that might have happened. And when I talked to the Rain, because she contacted me a year after my book The Bundy Murders were published, she was able to confirm that. But any wait, but she passed away. I hated to see her go and she but she was gone. And another of my contact, I can say it at the time, it was Jerry Thompson.

He had been entering into a state of dementia for a while. And you know, when I talked to Jerry, I could see that, and I said, I got to thinking about it, and I thought, well, you know, if I'm ever going to write a companion volume that really I thought it would be the Companion Voume and then that would be done. I said, well, maybe I should

do it now. And so I went out west. I retraced my steps, I went to some new places that I couldn't get to when I was researching the Bundy Murders, and lo and behold, I was finding out a lot of new information about the case that sure did add to my previous book, and it kind of like expanded it. And that's what that's what these volumes will do. And so anyway, that book came out in twenty sixteen, called

The Trail of Ted Bundy. Well by this time a lot of people already knew me from the Bundy March. That book has been a good, steady seller ever since it came out. And then when I'm on a documentary or something that the sales will really shoot up and then they'll stay that way for a while to go back down. But it's always been a good seller. So I know people were getting my book and reading it. So that along with podcasts I would do, along with

television interviews I would do. That was I became kind of like a magnet for people who carried these Bundy stories but had never really talked about it. It was the same thing with Lorraine. She said she avoided Bundy, she avoided the book of it. And I was the first person she ever contacted who had written about Bundy. And she said, it's time for me. I think it can be like a Catharsist for me to read your book

and to talk about it. And then later one of Lorraine's friends, and a woman that lived in psych At Hall with Kathy Parks as well. She contacted me and she said, I've lived with this for years. I think I want to just I had heard that you write the book in the right way. You're not sensational in your writing. You talk about the victims a lot, So I'm going to read your books. She did and it helped her. But the bottom line is a lot of people started contacting me who had experiences with Bundy and

are run in with Bundy. Now, there were people that contacted me that didn't because Bundy wasn't in the geographical area that they were in at the time, or there were certain things that they said that were strong red flags to me. But on the ones that I ended up putting in my companion volumes, they just didn't have any red flags. And you can sure tell when somebody

is telling the truth and somebody is not. Some of these people that were trying to foster these fake images of running into Bundy, they'd have these elaborate stories, but others would have Well, I ran into him. He was driving this page VW. He seemed like a really nice guy. He wanted me to go with him in the car. It was a sunny day, but I just didn't want to. And then I never thought of again until his face started hitting the news in the papers and I thought, well, wow, wow,

that's the guy I ran into. Basically a nothing story, but what makes it something is that they that they really ran into him, which over time can tell you things about Bundy and as well, in particular his hunting pattern when he got and we'll talk about that a lot more, because a lot of information came out about his hunting pattern, and it not only showed where Bundy was that first month he was in hugeahl hunting for women, but it also puts to death, in my opinion, a

myth that's been around for a long time, a myth that I didn't even mention the Bundy murders because I never really believed. But I expanded it a little bit

and talked about it in the Trail Dead Bundy. But anyway, so all these people kept coming to me, and my files, you know, would get inundated with information here and there, testimonies here and there, and I thought, well, you know, maybe I should write a third book because I've got these testimonies and I can go out and get more testimonies and find people that were that for instance, like I mentioned in the Buddy Mundy Murders, but were interviewed.

And so the third companion volume came out, and I swear people laugh about this, and really I did too. Each time I put a companion volume out, like the third one was The Bundy Secrets. In that book, I presented a lot of I had these new testimonies, but I also presented certain parts of the record that I have always found so interesting with commentary and like backstory

from me. So that came out, and every time I put out a companion volume, I thought, well, good, this is going to be this is going to be the last one, right, And so it just went on and on, and then of course, you know, the fourth book was Ted Bunny's Murder Mysteries, and again people had contacted me

with these really interesting stories. And it's funny because when I just every time a book is published, I like to take about a week off, don't do anything except do podcasts or whatever or maybe radio interviews, and I go, I just the book's been released, I watch hots do and I just kind of relax a little bit. And so as soon as Ted Bundy's Murder Mysteries came out. I think that was in twenty seventeen. I had a guide contact me Facebook friend by Michael Ryan His name

is Michael Ryan Hart. And Michael said to me, he said, and you never thought about doing a an encyclopedia like the Bundy Murders. And I said, no, I never had. But do you realize that just two days ago they just released a book of mim on Bundy. And he said yeah. I said, I can't get into that right now. I said, you know, on the it kind of sounds kind of good, but at the same time and I can't even think about that. He said, well, let's put

it on the show for now. He said, I would do it myself, but I'm doing similar things with pertaining to the American Civil War and I said, he said, I just don't have time for it. So after a couple of days, I contacted my publisher. I ran it past them. I thought, well, they might say, well, we're really not interested in that, and I say, okay, fine, but they said no, we think it's a great idea.

You should do it. So I did it. And it was a fun experience because I got to talk to some newspaper reporters and dig out information on them who were writing about these women that were disappearing. Then it was an interesting book to write, and was it was published, I thought, wow, it was a great idea. Then I ended it with the Enigma of Bundy, and I thought, after writing about I think the exact total number of

pages is one four hundred and eighty five pages. After that many pages on the case, that really should be it. I mean, I've really said all I wanted to say. And then just a couple of weeks after the book was released, I had three people contact me. They all three might have been valid, but one lady had gotten the information from her deceased aunt and she didn't have enough, so I said, well, thank you very much, but there's not a lot I could do with that. But the

other two women turned out to be real. I did some checking and we talked and I asked them various questions, and they turned out to be really, really, really good people, witnesses that had actually had contact with them. So I thought to myself, well, you know what am I going to do with these These are really good and they need to get out there in the printed page, so they'll be there for future researchers because you know, these people that were involved in the case, or a lot

of them are passing away. Now there's Jerry Thompson's gone, Ron Holmes has gone out, Carlisle's gone on, Lorraine Fargo's gone, and god knows who else is gone that I don't even know about. So and you know, nobody's getting any younger. So I thought to myself, you know what, I'll ask my publisher. He may not be on board with this, but maybe I can write a yearly journal of these

new testimonies that come in. And course, since this book's been published, I've already gotten one from a retired circuit court judge who had a run in with someone who was likely Bundy, and I'll add that to the next journal. But I just say to the publisher, I get these stories. If I think they're valid, I'll write about them, and then maybe in the journal I'll delve into maybe certain aspects of the case that need further maybe study. I can do that. And I said, do you think that's

something that you'd like to do. And at the time, I'd already been writing about it, just writing about it. Anyway. So they said yes, and I said, you know, it's not going to be as long as a normal book would be anywhere from two hundred, two hundred and fifty to three hundred pages. It's not going to be that. It might be since I'm doing it yearly, maybe one hundred and fifty page or something like that. And they said, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's fine. So they came up with

the title Ted Bundy the Yearly Journal. And I think it's good to look at it like that because it's something that as long as these tests on is keep coming in, I'll do it. And if it's every year or every year and a half or whatever, it doesn't matter. I'll keep putting it out there. And you know, Catherine Ramslin is a friend of mine, and you know, she even invited me to speak at a serial killer conference at the can University. So we've been friends for years.

She's really a great person. She's really great and she's so knowledgeable. She always blurbs my book. She's always been kind enough to do it, and I just can't thank her enough. But she said something in the blurbing of this latest book, and it's absolutely true. And I love how she words it, I didn't come up with anything like this, but she said, we can still chip away at his secrets, meaning Mundy's secrets. And man, that is exactly what happens with this book. The Yearly Journal is

because of this this thing. We'll talk about it more later, but the very fact that it's just a period out of nowhere, because of the testimony of people, because of one testimony, Susan Milner's out of the last book, I wrote the Enigma of Ted Bundy, where kru Bundy was hunting near his apartment the first month. He had got there late end of the month or possibly very very early October, like maybe the first but likely in late September.

And then the new testimony of Free to Aid and the other lady who lived in that apartment and Bundy came to their door, and we'll talk about that more. Classic Bundy, the language he used. He was looking for another woman that lived there, But I was never searching for any of this. And yet because of certain things starting to fell like a pattern in a puzzle, this one dropped in, this one dropped in, another one dropped in. Then that started ruling out this other false story, and

it was just amazing to see this come about. And it's, like Catherine said, we're chipping away at some of his secrets that he took. The only Bundy knew that he was hunting close to his apartment, which if you're going to be a psychopath and try to abduct women, I would think, because see I'm normal, I would think you need to go on the other side of Salt Lake somewhere where if you do something stupid and blow and somebody sees you, they won't be in your area. But no, no, no,

Bundy started hunting in his proverbial backyard. And now that's been proven, and so has it that he couldn't have been doing this other thing, which we'll talk about later. But this is what draws me on now, Like right now, I've just started a major book on the killings that the Nazis did in World War Two, and it's going to take me a year, year and a half to write.

But I'll still do the journal and as long as people still it give me information, as long as I think further aspects of the case need to be written about, as long as we can still chip away at bundy secrets, I am committed to doing that so anyway, that kind of brings you up on it.

waiting in the killing. And Bundy spoke of the force it becomes so strong, and he talks about a case where you mentioned a case where the force wasn't that strong and he was in his redemption phase, or he was at least trying not to not to reoffend, not to kill again. But you talk about also the failed abductions, and many of the people aren't so aware of Bundy's because Bundy didn't want to talk about the teen victims.

But you say that he that he attacked two twelve year olds, and so you talk about about a half dozen other ones. Yes, so tell us about also the idea that for all the women that he may have killed, which you estimate and others estimate are thirty plus you say maybe even as many as forty. Yes, But in order to be able to approach those people successfully and then abduct them, you say that there have to be mathematically many, many approaches, and then you show examples of that.

So tell us of examples of that to show the magnitude of the amount of approaches that Ted would have to do, yes to be while he was on his hunt.

No Man of God, Bill's pressing him on that. He said, Bundy goes that again, and Hagmar goes out that again, and you know that conversation occurred or wouldn't be in there. And he said, I don't know how many, he said, they just all get confusing. I don't know. So, you know, some people say, could I say, it's almost got to be around the low forties, but it could go fifty

or high er. We don't know. Even he doesn't know, but nobody usually nobody really is has ever that I know of, pose the question, at least publicly or in print, as to how many close calls were out there. I know that when Bundy went to Pocatello, Idaho, on May fifth, he drove up It's a straight shot out of Salt Lake, think about one hundred and eighty miles, and you know, he got up there. It was cold, And that's something I found out that I was writing the Bundy Mervs.

He never got a co ed that day. He hunted all day. He got his room at the at the Holiday Inn, which is to the right off of our field team after you get into the city of Pocatello, and it's not in the downtown part, but it's in like a suburban park. And he got off there and then he went across underneath Pot fifteen. After he got his room and everything, and he went to the university there in Pocatello, and he hunted and he hunted all day,

and he hunted into the night. And when they asked him about would anybody else had noticed who else maybe could you have attempted to abduct He said, well, a lot of the abductions failed before they went anywhere, and the women would have no knowledge of that, absolutely no knowledge of that. So he did admit that he was caught up in a women's only dormitory. Was a high rise, I think it was four or five stories, but anyway, he was caught up there by a male security guard

and he shouldn't even be in there. So they asked, what are you doing in here? He said, well, he just made up some lame excuse. They said, well, I'd like to see some identification. He said, I don't have anything on me, so you have to leave the building right now, and so they put him out. Now I found out for the Bundy murders because I've got the file on Culbrat, one of the twelve year olds he murdered the next day on the sixth. But he hunted all day and end of the night, and he can't

God only knows how many people he approached. And one of the reasons why he really couldn't get any women he wasn't as familiar with the area. But that's not really what was thwarting him. In my view, it was May fifth, but it was colder than normal. Winter was still unwilling to completely relinquish its grasp and it wouldn't let go. And there were snow showers on both days that Bundy was there. It could be sunny, but there were still some snow showers coming in and stuff like that,

and it was cold. It was colder than normal. So you know, he just didn't get anybody. God knows how many people. Was it ten? No, it can't be ten. That would be too low. He spent hours and hours trying to obtain a victim. I would say that it's easily in Pocatello. It was probably for May fifth, thirty to forty, And that's easy to do if you're asking women here and there to help you. It's already been proven that when he was on the day. I'll skip

over to Karen Campbell where he got her. On the evening of January twelfth, nineteen seventy five, at the wild Wood End. He had already admitted to haigmaring to other people that he had been hunting, and Mike Fisher told me, and I didn't put this in the Bundy murders. But Mike Fisher said, and then I read it later in an article and added it to one of my companion blumes.

But Bundy had told Fisher he said, I was using crutches and like a briefcase in the city of Aspen earlier in the day and dropping it and trying to get women to help me. And he had a run in with one particular woman that I've got the thing on, but she wouldn't go with him. So before he got Campbell,

he was down in Aspen itself hunting. But then he said, and this was Mike's words, he said, I went up amongst the lodges, and if you go there today, there's a lot of ski lodges there, and the wildwood in is kind of like all the way up the hill at the tip end of it, and it's like if you don't, if you're not looking carefully, you're gonna miss it and you will end up in another lodge. So how he ended up there, I don't know, but that's where he went. But he had already and this was

I guess. He got Campbell around oh, I'd say around seven thirty pm, and he was hunting at around the pool area, the outdoor pool area at the wild Wood End, And I bring this out in the Bundye Murders second edition exactly how he got Campbell and so you know, he was trying to get the attention of another woman.

So and then Karen Campbell saw him from the balcony and you got to remember that, as I said in the Bundye Murders, the steam coming off the pool is because it's so cold, and it's an outdoor heated pool, that'll kind of develop people and then it'll kind of spread out and you'll see people and whatever. But Karen was able to spot him. He looked like he was needing help, and being a nurse, she offered her help.

And that was a fatal mistake. And so then they went out to the side parking lot and that's where Bundy assaulted her and got her into his VW. But how many people did he hunt once he went to How many women did he try to get to go with him after he failed and asked been stumbling on crutches in the briefcase before Karen Campbell offered, Only God knows. So there's lots of people in every event else Bundy, you know, I don't add hitchhikers in that, because Bundy

was a planner of murderer. For the most part. He would salk women. He salked women a lot more than people realize. But he also was an opportunitist, so whenever he picked up an hedge hiker, that's okay, that's going to be an easy kill. And you know, if he was in the mood to killer, and he almost always was, it was the rare occasion when he changed his mind

and didn't. But there's so many people out there. So I came up with an estimate that if Bundy even abducted on the lower end, like thirty to thirty five, thirty six people, you're looking at If you just say he had to talk to at least ten people for every person that he was able to abduct, you're looking at a number of three hundred and fifty people. So that that's a lot of people to encounter Bundy and

not go with him. And they never had any idea what a deadly situation they were looking at when they were talking to him. So there's a lot. It could be four hundred, it could be over four hundred. There's only God knows because, for example, he hunted on two different days Central Washington State College, but he didn't get Susan Rancourt until around ten fifteen, ten thirty on April seventeenth,

nineteen seventy four. So how many did he talk to that afternoon and on the other day where he apparently got no one? How many what thirty forty fifty more, We don't know, We don't know. So he had contact with a lot of women that he intended to kill, but they just would not go with him for one reason for another. And thank god that one lady that did follow Bundy to his car at Central Warthnon State College.

And I elaborate on this, I mean, I talk about it in the Bundy Meurs, but actually went to CWSC for the second book, The Trail of Ted Bundy. And at the time, now that Whope area now has been eaten up by parking lots and new buildings have been built there. But at the time Bundy did this, you know, they had to leave the library, turn right, and then they crossed a little man made bridge between a little round building called the Group Conference Center and the library,

and then they would angle off. And when they angled off, you know Bundy, he never left anything the chance. He had parked as VW on the most remote area on campus, about one hundred and fifty feet from the library, no buildings around. As you see today, there was only one building that was called Black Hall. Today, if you look at Black Hall from the air, it's two long buildings connected.

It looks like an eighth shape from the air. But back then it was just one long building that was just kind of like right next to the library and between the it was a little around place called the Group Conference Center with this unusual little tin roof. And he walked across this man May bridge and they turned left angled left off of that, and then they walked

into the ever increasing darkness. And Bundy had parked right underneath a railroad wrestle that was bounded by tall grass, and it was rarely traveled by students, and so he picked the perfect place. And the one lady went with him, and she started to feel very suspicious of him. And what Bundy did was, you know, and I say this in a number of my books, but Bundy like a lot of killers when he was When he sensed that he had somebody, he would start going into that altered

state of murder. And if you look at the testimony of this one lady who survived his her encounter with Bundy at CWSC, she said, when she was talking to him, I mean, his eyes were normal. He just didn't look weird at all. But as they were walking to his car, she turned and looked at him and she said, his eyes were really weird. And I asked Harleisle about that as I was writing the Bundy Mrtors, because I wanted to kind of get it right. What happened? Do you think?

He said, Well, a lot of women have reported to me that right before someone attacked them and assaulted them, they had this change in their eyes, and it would he said, I think it's a neural transmitter change, but in any event, it's getting into that altered state. So she went through the motions, but she, you know, she got to Bundy's car and she asked her to get in, and she said no. And when she looked in the car,

and this really bothered her. She said that the passenger seat was out, and he would often do that so we'd have room to lay an unconscious woman in there and throw a blanket over her. But she was able to get away from him. So we know how, we know how Bundy did things within his attempts to abduct women, but she got away from him. So how many did he really haunted cwsc over a period of two days. I think forty to fifty would be a conservative estimate that he would run into where I mean, a lot

of girls probably just blew him off. So I'm sorry, I gotta go, but he spent hours. Yeah, So there's a lot out there even today that have never come forth. And a lot of these women tell me I never went to the police because I mean, it was it was almost like a nothing in counter And as I talked in the book, there was there was a lady

from Oregon State University. And when I'm writing, when I'm talking to her a couple of years ago, or you know, whenever that was, I asked her what year and she didn't really know his early seventies and she went back and I said, if you could find out something, and she either said to me, she contacted me back and she said sure, she said nineteen seventy three. But my mind could play tricks so many she might have said nineteen seventy five. And I said to her then and listen,

she was so sweet, she said. As she started the conversation, she said, I'm absolutely convinced, as bunny, because I got a good look at him. I talked to him. You know, we exchanged words, and I remember what he founded like, I remember his face now his hair was And she said, I'm just I just know him. And that's what the Encounty wasn't. Here's what the encounter was. She's like reading something. She steps out into the street. He's moving slowly through

the campus. He almost bumps into his VW. He stops, rolls down his window on the pastor's side, talks to her. They exchange pleasantries, you know, ex prices, I'm sorry or whatever. And he said, well, look, he must have said something like these new on campus whatever, and could she show them around? It was some kind of excuse. I can't remember exactly what she said, other than the fact that it was very nice. She got a great look at it.

She remembered what he sounded like, and she identified his vehicle, and he got his VW in seventy three, But when she told me, it was like seventy three, or it could have been seventy five. Because I didn't really write it down. I thought, well, I said, no, it can't be him, because he was there in nineteen seventy four and I had forgotten about it. I had completely forgotten about that. Bundy admitted to killing two in Oregon, and because he was such a creature of habit, he obviously

went back there. It could have been in seventy three because he got his Volkswagen. Then his little beage Volkes left, just like I said. And so what did she say to me? She said, Oh, well, I guess I'm wrong, and I don't have her name, and I don't I hope she reads my book and recontacts me, because she's still on the contact to me in the first place.

So I said to myself that I will never, ever, under any circumstances not write down everything that is told to me, whether I think I'm going to use it or not. So that's what I've adopted since then. But anyway, he just there's lots of women out there still that had encounters, And like I say, I just got contacted, oh, a number of months ago from a retired circuit court judge out in Oregon, and she had an experience with

what she believes is Bundy, and he was. But this was in nineteen seventy or seventy one, and Bundy borrowed a lot of vehicles. He always did. That's one thing that's the surface over the last sixteen years of research. He would borrow vehicles to search for victims, more than most people realize. And she said it was a BAIGVW. And I said, well, he didn't get his bag VW into this because this had happened to her was in seventy one seventy two, and she didn't make a police

report about it. But I found out and I'm going to do more investigation on this because the story is going to go into the next journal. But she said, and I can't. I don't want to get into everything that happens while she was in the car with him, but she was able to get away. But I found out that Bundy's good friend, Marlon Boortman had owned a Beige VW around this same time. And I know that he had borrowed vehicles from the Boardmans on other occasions

when they didn't have that BEAGEVW. So he didn't have it, that's what I have heard. So I'm going to do more investigation into that. But he could have borrowed it and it could be somebody else's. But was it an encounter with Bundy. I can't say for sure. She can't say for sure, but it's interesting enough to put it in there, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it wasn't Bundy. And that's based on some things that she said he did while she was in the car.

But I'm going to go into that in the book.

I'm completely immersed and I lose myself in playing. Every time. I just pick up and play a few levels. Anytime I have a few minutes feels great to beat another level or get in the zone. Hard to believe right now, but I'm almost at a level one thousand and only thousands to go. Best Fiends is a free to download mobile puzzle game featuring always new adventures and challenges and thousands of levels with dozens of unique Fiends to collect.

You customize a team of your Fiends to defeat the menacing slugs, power up your favorite Fiends to new level, and watch as they transform and get stronger. You can even play offline if your internet connection is lost. New events and challenges pop up all year. There's chances to earn exclusive in game items, characters, and rewards. Download your new favorite getaway Best Fends for free today on the

App Store or Google Play. You'll even get five dollars worth of in game rewards when you reach level five. That's friends without the r Best Themes Now, Kevin, you include and you had alluded to it already. You mentioned this an incredible story that backs up a lot of the information that you have already written about, but new information. In this journal of the yearly journal, you spoke with a person named Freda Aid and this is regarding Debbie

Christiansen and her daughter, and they were friends. Free Daid and Debbie Christensen were friends who had moved from Florida to Salt Lake in July nineteen seventy four at the Annie Laurie apartments. And you got this story from Jody Jones, which is I guess Debbie's daughter. And so they were living in Salt Lake and one night a man knocked on the door. You write about their experience. What did they experience? Why did you include this? Why were they so certain they encountered about Bundy?

Freedom's told me. And here's what happened. So they were living in a brownstone that if you go from Buddy's apartment at five sixty five First Avenue, he lived in what is known the Avenues, And if you go five blocks west of that, heading towards downtown, and then you turn at the light and go three blocks south, you'll run into the lor and apartments and it's they're these brownstones.

And when I was there in two thousand and six and again in two thousand and fifteen, I was all over this area, but I had no idea and wouldn't hear this testimony until years later. But so I had to pass the place on numerous occasions. But they got a knock on the door one afternoon, and they opened it up, and they both came to the door, and there was this man that they later identified as Bundy. And the first thing out of his mouth is high, I don't mean to bother you. And in the journal

I talk about how things like this classic Bundy. He was constantly saying excuse me, miss or, I'm sorry to bother you, or this or that. He'd have all these pleasant trees where he'd greet them. And here's what he said. He said, I'm looking for a woman that lives in your apartment. He couldn't remember her name. Somewhere in her complex, he said, he described her, and she had long, dark hair, part of the middle. Whatever he described her, they knew

of her, but didn't know her name. And he said I'm a law student at the University of Utah and she's in my class and I borrowed her notes, and i'd like to return them to her. I just need to know what apartment she lives in. And they said, and I remember, you know, Freda said, well, we know who you're talking about, but we don't know her name. We don't know her apartment. But she's a telephone operator.

And when we're getting off work and we're coming home, she's leaving for work, and a lot of times we'll pass each other, you know, like say hello or whatever. And she said, if you want me to, we see her quite a bit. I can if she comes out later to go to work, if she's worked like today, whatever, I'll give her the notes. And he said, no, that's okay. I'll see her in class tomorrow and I can give her the notes then. And I remember Frida said, she's

such an extrovert. She said, it's a wonder I didn't invite him in for dinner because he was just very polite and things like that. And she said later, she said, you know, obviously they were on for a floor, so they could obviously see his car. And she said, no, saw his car around the neighborhood quite a bit, and so that is classic Bunday and what he would do, he would stalk women. So apparently he was going down and again Freeda said this, So I have to say this.

I said, when was this? She said, it was before the murders of October, and as a case progressed, the authorities looked back, and of course it was Nancy Wilcox who disappeared, thought to have been a runaway. Later, when these women started to disappear, they started to consider her a homicide victim, and so they kind of started classing her like that, that she might be linked with all the other women. Jerry Thompson worked most of these cases,

and so it was before October. Now, when I was talking to Jodie, she said, well, mom, and this is why Frieda said, well, she just can't remember. She was thinking it happened like before he got arrested, just like weeks before he got arrested, she said. Freeda told me, no, she said, it was really before the murders in October, and she said that's when it happened. So it wasn't until you know, the following October when he was actually

hit the news and arrested his paper. His face started to hit the papers, but she said, yeah, and having seen his vehicle, we remember seeing his vehicle. His vehicle parked in various areas around the neighborhood, and because it was a little distance from his place, you know, he would just drive and park there and he looked for victims. Again, this is all happening the first month he was there, and September was a busy month for Bundy. He didn't even arrive in the city. He left on the second.

It was one of the nice things I was able to discover for the Bundy murders. Some people say he left on the third, other people say early September, but I was able to trace his gas receipts and he left actually on Labor Day, September second of seventy four, and again, and then he picked up a hitchhiker later and then after sometime after maybe I don't know, close to eleven o'clock he murdered the hitch hiker, the Idaho hitch hiker. And then he didn't arrive until the early

morning hours of September third. Then you know, he's busy setting up his apartment and then he goes home. He flies home in the middle of the month, gets a truck that he has loaded with furniture, and has Glenn drive back with him. And I don't know how long Glenn stayed, but he drove back with him and helped him get his furniture upstairs and stuff like that, and maybe went home the next day and flew back home.

And then of course he had to enroll in school a little, you know, go over there and make a presentation that he was indeed there and was ready to start classes. Although he after he did all that he was he was killing so much and started in October. As I said that, he wasn't there very much, maybe not any more than three times that first semester, but he was very busy. And so again this hunting pattern emerged.

And the reason why i'd emerged when Freda Aid and the other lady which story came through Jody, when she determined when they win this war, I immediately thought back to Susan Milner, whose testimony is in the last book of the six books, The Enigma of Dead Bundy and what happened there. She was even closer to Bundy's apartments, and she had had a little argument with her husband and just left to go for a walk, and she

stopped at the school. She told me, Susan, they lived in above a pharmacy on the corner, and they're like, I think she's like a couple of blocks from from

Bundy's place. Well, she walked down and this is like in the afternoon, and she walked down like a block or so, went into like a school yard that has a fence, and she went in where the opening was and she sat in a Then she walked down to the swings and she was just swinging and Bundy pulled up in his VW park got out and came and leaned on the fence and put you know how people will put both their arms on the fence and just

lean on it. And he said, you know how you doing and whatever, and he said, listen, you know, would you like to take a ride with me? And I remember she said, look, I was mad at my husband, but I just married, you know, And she was she was she was pregnant, although it wasn't showing. She said, I'm certainly not in my marriage by going on the

ride with a guy. So she told him no, Well, he asked her again she said no, and with that she said, he you maybe a little of discourage and he, she said, he tapped his fist a couple of times on the top of the fence and said okay and then walked off. Got VW and And that's another example of an almost know nothing story, but at the same time it is a story because she identified him after

he surfaced, you know, you know, a year later. So again and that was and again she said, I got married on September tenth, and it was just she thinks a couple of weeks after that. So again we're talking late September, and so I'm figuring out and that's what Katherine Ramslin said. We're still able to chip away the secret. So he knew where he had been honey that first month before he started actually, so he had Again he's failing. He's failing. He can't be not able to get who

he wants to get. So we don't know how many that first month, but it was just he just landed in Utah and he's already starting to hunt. As busy as September was, he still had time to hunt and kill women. So that came to the surface. And at the same time and we can go into it later. That in my view, that totally kills this myth that Ted Bundy, Newlawa and Amy just didn't happen. It just didn't happen. That that myth as Bundy. Just think of

this listen. I think uh And I liked him. I wish he would have been alive when I was writing The Bundy Murders. I really wanted to talk to there. But Richard Lard, I love his book The Deliberate Stranger, but he had passed away and I so regretted not being able to talk with him. But anyway, he has something about that in the book. And there were some people that believed this connection to see these people came to them afterwards. One of the guys died in the

nineteen eighties. But there's this under woman I say her name, but she said that Bundy, you know, came and made friends with them in September. You know, she even said over the summer when he know he wasn't there. But the talk was this myth was is that some people believe it to this day. I didn't, so I didn't

put it in The Bundy Mursey. But the myth was is that Bundy after getting If you look at what the record says, and what they said is that Bundy was coming down there like in the fall September, all that area through there and making friends, going down to tiny Lehigh, Utah. At the time, it has less than five thousand people there, and apparently, as the myth goes, he went down there, made friends with some of the guys, got to meet Laura and Amy, spent time with her.

Now he's busy back here, hunting women, going home in the middle of the month, not arriving until the third, having to set up things with school. Even though he's not going to be there much. He's it's busy, and on top of that, he's hunting in his own proverbial backyard.

The thought that he come to Utah and zip down the tiny, tiny, minuscule Lehigh, Utah and spending all this time, day after day making friends with these guys and Laura and Amy at a place called Brown's Cafe, which wasn't really the name, it was the nickname for this place. It just didn't happen. It didn't happen. Now, I didn't know all of this. I didn't know his honting patter for that month, which could disprove this other thing. I didn't know the Honting pattern. But when I wrote about

because I didn't mention it in the Bundy Murders. When I wrote about this in The Trail of Ted Bundy that came out in twenty sixteen, I said, this is not something I used. It didn't feel good to me. Then it doesn't feel good to me now. In other words, I wouldn't use it again. If I rewrote the Money Murders, I said, I'm not saying it can't be true. It's I guess it's possible. It could be true. But there's just too many things that don't act like that don't

add up for me. But here's the story, and I bet you yes.

ted that he resorted back to nighttime hunting. You said that, and you say, you talk about that in all your research, you realized that the night research. Pardon me, that his night hunting is where he started. Tell us about that.

But at the Serial Killer conference, I said, I'm just I've known this for a long time, but I'm going to tell you here because I knew it was going to be soon in this other book. And so in twenty set there were twenty. I was down at this conference at Kana University and I said, if you look at what he did, he went he had counted some problems at Lake Samamish. He started his killing in the middle of the night. He started it with the attack

on karen Sparks. He then went to the early morning attack, like probably between two and three AM or two and four, but no later than that. I'm sure he got Linda and Healy and Whisker away from her home that she shared with the other cohs, and everything was nighttime until April seventeenth, nineteen seventy four. He was hunting a little bit in the afternoon noon, she was out in the daylight, and then he hunted all night that night and then

the other time he was at CWSC. We only have a record for him hunting at night, but he stayed with the night hunting all the way through Brenda Mall. It was already dark when he hunted Donald Manson at Evergreen State College. It was about seven thirty, and I put it in an enigma when sundown was and all these you can see he's sunning just basically at night. Then he edges himself in daylight, and then about July

of seventy four, he is hunting in broad daylight. But because you know, he uses really in ted because one woman followed him to his car and identified it as like a BEIJVW. He you know, he kind of spooped him. He never talked about it to my knowledge to anybody, but he immediately goes into nighttime hunting again. And so after that, you look at all the women that he started to abduct and murder in Utah, every one of

them is under the cover of darkness. And unless there's somebody out there that we don't know that he killed, he would remain getting people in darkness, whether it be early evening or you know, well, of course, like but he got January twelve, seventy five, Jarry Campbell around seven thirty.

I think sundown was like before five pm, so he was in darkness and he didn't come back out into the light that we know of from the record until he abducted Denise Oliverson and I think that was April sixth of nineteen seventy five, so he retreated back into the darkness. No one had ever written about that, no one had ever spoken about that. But again, these are the kind of things that come up with me after

spending so many years looking at the case. Another thing that I brought up in one of my companion by us and I first announced this because I knew I was going to write about it in the book. I first announced this on a Facebook my Facebook page or on a buddy side, I can't remember which, but I said, you know, Bundy, he was so broke all the time that you know, you absolutely have to know that he took the money, bills and change from the victims that

he murdered when they had money on them. There's no reason he wouldn't have. He needed money too badly. Everybody said, I never thought of that, but that's got to be right. A couple of people said, no, he probably didn't, and I don't know why they would say that, because Bundy was a thief. He would steal he would never beary money with them. He wouldn't do it, he'd take the money.

In fact, I'll never be able to prove it. But he was so broke that when after he killed Janisot and Denise aslom At having abducted the multiroke some amish. I'm sure they had some money on them, at least one of them had, probably Janis if she had brought her purse and stuff, and Denise had left her personal car, so she probably didn't have any money on her, but

I bet Jana's did. And when he took Liz out and Tina out to get Hamburger's and ice cream that night, there's a good chance he used money that came from Aunt. But these are the kind of things you think about as you study the case, and they just kind of pump up. But I don't know when it happened. Uto. Wait a minute, there's a pattern here. He starts off

Buddy at night, he's in the daytime. Then he does this really egregious double abduction in broad daylight at a place where there's forty thousand people, including the police department that's having a picnic there, and then he they're looking for Ted they're looking for a VW and that must have kind of shaken him a bit, and then he retreats back into the darkness. So yes, these are just the kind of things that I end up seeing. And again that just kind of came to me. We'll wait

a minute. We have a real pattern here. It starts at night, early morning, night afternoon, around noon, bam, all day. I mean, you know, at different times during the bright sunny day at lake some amage and immediately back into the darkness. So yeah, So but this thing about where his hunting pattern was the first month, he said, huge doll. I never saw that coming. That couldn't have figured it out if it wouldn't have been for the Milner testimony.

And then the two women that opened the door to him, and he was all polite and everything, and he said, I'm a law student. I just want to give the lady that her notes back, you know. But then there it was, and again I liked what us what Katherine Ramsell said. It's it really is about chipping away the secret.

So and that's why I said in the book, and you read it, you know where where you know these testimonies are buried, new information come forth discoveries await, and so you know, that's how you got to look at it, especially if you're writing about a case that goes on a long time. I mean, the very fact that I'm here having written seven books about Mundy now over close to sixteen hundred pages. I never envisioned any of this.

I didn't even envision on writing the Bundy Murse. If it wouldn't have been for Jim Massey, my good friend who's passed away now is a probation and parole officer in Louisville, and his good friendship with Jerry Thompson that he met in the nineteen early, very early nineteen eighties, I would have never written this book on Bundy because I got to meet Jerry and from there it just took off. So yeah, it's been an amazing journey. But to think that I was able to come up with

so many new testimonies. How about the one with the lady that encountered Bundy as she was on her way to Hanks Tabron in North Tacoma and Bundy pulls up in a El Camino and he said he acted like he wasn't from around there or something. He said he was looking for a particular place, which turned out to be a landmark restaurant, and she said, we tried to give me. She tried to give him her directions. He said, I can't. And then this is so much like Bundy.

He said, if you could just get in the car and show me take me there, I will give you gas money to get back. And she thought, great, I have gas money for my friends. We have some beer on it, and she went over to get in another car. He and she looked in because she was standing back from him. He was coming on the street towards her and she was on the other side of the street, and I guess she came over and talked to him,

got close to him. And then when she came around, when she agreed to do it, she looked in there the passenger bucket seat had been removed, and she said her friend Pam. Her friend Pam had the same encounter with the same guy and the same el blackish bluish el Camino with the seat down like she I think, she said, three weeks later, I had to check check the ball, but they compared notes. It was the same guy, and that guy had to have been Bundy. And she said,

you know, I knew. I wasn't really familiar with all of his crimes, but when his face started like hitting the papers the news, I said, well that's the guy. You know, these are just things that happened and failed deductions. And if you look, and I told Mike mccanna about a friend of mine and a fellow Bundy researcher, he said, oh, yeah, I know Hank's. Well it's a great place. And he said, there there's a Bavarian restaurant. They're the location, like right there,

there's a Bavarian resta. There was a Bavarian restaurant where Bundy met his cousin John Call and had dinner there with him right after the Kathy Parks murder. And so that's something that he discovered for one of his you know, research things. But Bundy knew that area well. He was all over and if you look at the distance he was from, like Hanks and where Top of the Ocean restaurant was, that's that's the name of the place that was the Landmark restaurant. And then where Bundy's parents lived.

I mean, they're just not that far from each other. So again he's honey near to where his parents live. And you know he's driving this car. Where he got this car? I have no idea, But again, he borrow a lot of cars. So there's cars out there with probably not now they're probably in junkyards, but traces of you know, maybe air or whatever, maybe a splotch of blood down the weather felt on the window or whatever,

who knows. I mean, it's out there. And so these testimonies they just keep coming forth, and boy, some of them don't have the ring of truth and others do. And you just talk to them and ask them more questions, and it just confirms that they were indeed and they indeed had an encounter with Ted Bundy.

in the case. And so her parents were Chas Junior and Catherine, and so he goes through the whole thing, the abduction. But it's very interesting some of the information that he has at that time and that he's included in this memorial which includes the abduction, but it includes also her life. What did you get from this memorial and why did you include it? Why was it so interesting to include in this point?

just it just had a lot to it. And it came out of a file that and I put this in the book the Journal. If anybody wants to see it themselves or have a copy, you can obtain this. I think got box thirty four and something, maybe that file thirteen and something like that. But I looked at it and I thought, you know, this is really something. You never see this sort of thing in a homicide

investigation investigative file. And once he had done he had written this, and he had basically written it for his family, but he wanted them to have a copy of it as well, and so they put it in the file.

And I think the trailer ted Bundy Eye alluded to it, and I put a very little portion of like I think the first page, and then I elaborated on another aspect of it in one of the other things, because it impressed me so much, and even though there's a few tiny minor mistakes, it's surprising that it's so accurate. And so wherever there's like these little clubs or whatever, I clear that up in a thing called author's note,

and then I clear it out. But to have this thing put together by him, where his family had dealt a lot with the investigator Harrison from OSU, from the school from which he disappeared and other investigators, they were grateful, and so we wanted to put this together because of such a loss, losing her at such a young age. And you know, I just thought people have asked about it,

people seem to be interested in it. And then when I got to reading the personal letters, because I put letters of Kathy's in some of my previous books, including the Bundy Murders, and in fact, I think it dead

by these murders mysteries, I put quite a bit. But for this thing, he adds a lot of letters between well a number of letters between Kathy and her dad and other people, and the things she's written and you know, he doesn't pull any punches, and he talks about one point he said, you know, I just feel like I never really knew my granddaughter. And he also talked about how she had all these dreams, but his main concern was was like, well, how are you going to support yourself?

So it talks about the good things, that talks about the bad. But I thought, you know, most people are never going to see that. Yes, and it's so touching really to me because this guy's long dead, but I thought that should include it because it is a rare bird. I've never encountered anything so personal in an investigative file, and I've looked a lot of my guarantee it not just about Bundy but other people. I've never seen any kind of memorial like this ever, and I just think

it was very unique. So I want to do included in this book. And I believe I made the right decision because it's very interesting to read because as you read it, you're almost feeling the agony of the Park's family and you just have to sympathize with them, and it's I'm sure it was a catharist. It was cathartic for him to do it. And it was important to do it. And he said something at the end, and

this was basically again for the Park's family. He said, you know, like I'm going to paraphrase here, he said, you couldn't visit her anytime, just by calling her up in your memory. And that's true, that's one thing that you can do. So it's just very sad on the one hand. On the other and it's heartwarming. But it's one of those things that I think that we talk

a lot about the Gay File. We show a lot of things from the detectives, and I wanted to show something that was so incredibly import to the Parks family that the grandfather completed. I just think it was worthy for the rest of the world to see it as well.

later that afternoon. He said he's doing better. It was apparently a mild heart attack, and so you know, and she and then of course it was inevitable because she loved to take her internal strolls, and you know, Bundy ended up in counting her in the cafeteria after eleven pm and then could go with him and that was it. But yeah, it's very sad, you know if you look at something similar to that. So you're the poor father, they're not telling him right away because they don't really

have another heart attack. Dean Kent was an executive with an oil company and he had had suffered a serious heart attack. And the first night he went out to do something was when his daughter Debbie invited them to come see the play at High and so, and that he had just that was his first night out. And you know what's weird. I've often said this, and I've said this in some of the companion bums. Very often

things happen by chance. I say things like, what if women Kodowski's children would have accompanied Karen all the way to the room, which they wanted to do, right but they but she said no one and send him back after she reached the elevator. But he wouldn't have been able to kidnap her with a Donna Manson took another route or whatever. These things happened by chance, and and by chance, that very night, the play didn't get started

on time. He was supposed to end a ten ten pm, but it didn't get started on time, and it ran over because Debbie's brother was at the roller Rake and was told he'd be picked up at ted and they called the roller Rake, but they wouldn't let him talk to him or you know, pass off a message. For some strange reason, she had go getting they were gonna go Jeason, No you haven't seen the play. I'll do it of course. Then she disappeared. But all of these

things happen by chance. And like if the play would have started on and ended on, we would never even known the name of Debbie Kant. Yeah, it's odd. It's odd, isn't it.

almost all of my books listed. And I write two prim blogs and you can go back at it back and you go to Amazon. My blogs are listed down there and you can click on from Amazon on any one of these blogs I've written and it'll take you over a Wildlood Press. So those are the two locations where you can find that information about me.