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You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking Killers in True crime History and the authors that have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime history and the authors that are written about them. The East Area rapist would break into middle class homes and respectable neighborhoods in the dark of night, tie up his victims and tell them over and over they were going to die. Well, he didn't kill them, and didn't kill anyone,
not at first. The East Area rapists got his start in the summer of nineteen seventy six in Sacramento County and raped thirty women between June nineteen seventy six. In July nineteen seventy eight, he moved on to Contra Acosta County, in October nineteen seventy eight, and then continued south to Santa Barbara and Orange Counties, where he was known as the Knightstalker, named before his crimes were linked to those
up north. Psychiatrists helping the task force talk with imprisoned sex offenders who said East Area Rapist was looking for an excuse to kill, not just a rape. They were right. Larry Crompton was working in the crime Lab in Contracostron the county doing crime scene investigations when East Area Rapist arrived in late nineteen seventy nine. After Eyre's third attack, a task force of local police agencies, the DA's office and the Crime Lab was formed and Crompton was appointed
to it. First murder was a double homicide in Santa Barbara County in December nineteen seventy nine. As attacks continued until after another double homicide in nineteen eighty one, the East Airy Rapist vanished for five years. He reappeared for another double homicide and made nineteen eighty six. Larry Crompton had retired, but in May two thousand he got a call from a criminologist in Contra Costra County who was
working with DNA and the EAR files. Crompton gave him the names of three rape victims, and by July it was confirmed that the same man was behind them. Further DNA worked proved in two thousand and one and six of the ten murders then attributed to EAR were by the same person, and in April two thousand and two, the Orange County Sheriff's Office slew Crompton down to help with the investigation. The East Airy rapist or original Nightstalker,
has yet to be arrested. The book we're featuring this evening is Sudden Terror, with my special guests, police officer and author Larry Crompton. Welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Larry Crompton, Thank you, Dan.
I really appreciate you having me on.
I apologize because I was there was a little bit of confusion in what I was reading. You were retired detective or lieutenant? What would you want to be considered retired from the police force.
The main thing is retired, But I didn't retire as a lieutenant, but working on the task force, I was a sergeant.
I see, I got it. Okay, okay, now let's get to when this happened in nineteen seventy six, Where were you and what was your What was your impression of the first when you first heard about the first rapes that were heard that occurred in nineteen seventy six, Where were you and what were you What were your thoughts at that time?
I knew nothing about it. Things were different then than what they are now. If you didn't live in the town or close to it, or didn't get that newspaper, you didn't hear about these things. Contracosta is not that far from Sacramento, but we knew nothing about the East area rapist and knew nothing until August of nineteen seventy eight, when the sergeant that was in charge of their task force, Sergeant Jim Bevans, and the Lieutenant Ray Root, came down
to Conquered and had a meeting with us. And at that time I was working in the crime lab and the sheriff asked if I would go to that meeting, and one of the criminalists with me, and that's the first time we heard about it. And again sitting there and listening to them tell us about rapes that occurred in Sacramento, and all we could think of is we're in Contra cost To County. We don't have people like that down here, so this isn't going to bother us. We learned differently right now.
In terms of the crime scene investigation, I know that as far as I know, it's you're part of a team. What area of expertise do you have and what in terms of your contribution and your job in this team doing crime scene investigations.
Well, what my job was was to go to crime scenes and we would process them fingerprints and photographs and things like that. And also one of the things that I had to do in homicides was to go to the take pictures of the murdered victim as the doctors are working on them doing the autopsies and I would have to photograph them. But mainly it was to go to the scene and do the processing of the scenes. Prior to that, I had no experience in it at all.
I got to the crime lab, saw some of the books that they were reading and I couldn't even pronounce them. But the crime Libe in Contra Costa County was an excellent one and the people that were in there were excellent and worked with me very well, and took me under their arm and taught me what I needed to know.
Now, you say there was things were different in those days. If a crime occurred in a certain county. Were we talking for those people that don't know the expanse of distance in California? The difference between northern and southern California in terms of distance between where he started in Sacramento and where you were. What kind of mileage are we talking about? How many counties away or what's the distance?
Well, there's only one county between us in as Solano County, so you can get there within well because of the traffic, and California is going to take a little longer than what you would think, but within a couple hours you could be there.
Okay, okay, So take us back to June seventeenth. I know that you just mentioned that you really didn't know about that, But take us back like you were there in June seventeen, nineteen seventy six, because you do a great job of Obviously there are ten murders here, but there's also a multitude of rapes and then you talk about the escalation. So where he started and where he
ended up as a rapist, killer, serial rapist killer. But June seventeenth, you talk about Carry Frank and tell us about Carry Frank, and this is an amazing part of the book where you have the opportunity because she survived and it gives you the details, and you've written about that in the book, So tell us about Kerry Frank And June seventeenth, nineteen seventy six.
Well, Carrie was home alone. Her father was out of town and she didn't expect him back for a while, and she thought that she was being watched in May of nineteen seventy six, and she received several hang up phone calls for two weeks before the attack, and she felt that somebody was watching her. But because of the phone calls, she was very, very nervous. And this night when he did come in, when she first was awoken, she thought it was her father, but obviously it wasn't.
And prior to him getting in, he tried to cut the phone line going into the house, and that is something that he did in many of the attacks, is that he would disable the phone so that they couldn't call. He tied her up, like he did all of them after that, and one thing about this is his modus of doing this. In the first attack he got a little more sophisticated, but it was the same way. He
tied her hands behind her back extremely tight. He tied her ankles very loose, and he talked through clenched teeth, told her that all he wanted was food and money, and didn't want to hurt her and wasn't going to hurt her, and he didn't blindfold her. In other ones he did he started blindfolding, but in this one here he asked her do you have money? He ransacked the house. And one thing that in this attack and the ones afterwards,
he always lubricated himself. And this victim here carry Frank, and all ones after that all said that he was very small, in doubt, very tiny, and never did have a full erection in any of these attacks. She she could describe him only that he wore a dark T shirt and dirty white or gray ski mask with holes for the eyes. And when he woke her up, he had no pants on. He did have his tennis shoes on, but no pants. And this is something that he did in rapes after that also, but not in everyone.
Now did he say right from the very first with carry Frank, you're going to die. He threaten. Did he threaten her? Yes?
He did. He threatened every one of them. And my feeling is that is what he wanted to do right from the start, was to kill, but did not. And in talking to a psychiatrist later on at the Vacaville Medical Center, she told me she had talked to her sex offenders at the medical center and they all said you had better catch him because he wants to kill. And I asked her why hasn't he and she said, well, he does not yet have the justification. Once he gets
the justification, he's going to kill. And I said, will he kill every time? And she said no, but the justification will be less each time. So Carrie Frank that was the one thing that she really had in her mind during all of this was she was going to die. And that's what he put in each one of their minds, whether it was the woman or the man, and the woman, they were going to die.
Now was Carrie compliant to his orders? Was she? Or was she struggling? What was no? What would she ought to do?
She was compliant because she was extremely frightened. She did what she had to do to stay alive. And in talking to some of them. That's what I told him, that you had to go along with it. If not, you would have died. And that's the way it was up until he started the killings.
What was the general size of this man in terms of her just carry Frank's description of him, sort of weigh and height.
He was about five nine five ten and probably about one hundred and seventy pounds. And they all come out about the same way and felt that he was not old, could have been anywhere from nineteen twenty five years old. And other than that, they couldn't really tell because they didn't see him. He always wore the mask, he always wore gloves. We never get fingerprints from him, and never
got a real good description of him. And what he would do is he would use a flashlight to wake them up a lot of times, and he would either tap on the doorsill or he would say something to them and shine the light in their eyes. And then a lot of times he would blindfold them. But he would put them on their stomachs and tie their hands behind their back extremely tight, and on Carrie Frank along with the rest of them, it cut the blood circulation off to their hands very very painful.
No, how long did the attack? How long would this attack last?
It would depend It could last two to three hours. It depends on what was going on. If it was a single female, then obviously it didn't take as long as if there was a man in the house. And sometimes what you'll find in reading the book, sometimes if things were not going exactly the way that he wanted them to, he would leave and he had this system going and he had to follow it.
Now, getting back to carry Frank, how is it that she escapes and she believes that she's going to die, so she acts accordingly when she has an opportunity. He's ransacking the place. Tell us what happens.
Well, while he is ransacking, she is listening, but she's not doing anything. And she was just that night. She was just looking forward to a good night. And then he comes in.
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Website retails, and it just was horrible. For the house obviously was lonely because her father was not there, and she fell asleep in the room, and just out of the darkness, this figure came in. And when he stood in the in the house, like I say, it's just uh, he was half naked, moved through the house and went to her room. And in this case, he tapped on the uh on the doorway and that woke carry up, brought her out of a sound sleep, and her bedroom
light flashed on. He turned that on, and she was just scared to death. Dulled her senses, and she said she looked into his eyes, although like I say, he had a mask, but she could see into his eyes. She could see the knife that he had. She knew that he uh had gloves on, and he just continued tapping against the door frame, and he had an erect penis, and that obviously her attention. But again she described it as very small, and she said that she was unable
to form thoughts. And he leaped onto her bed and she tried to pull the covers up over her head. And to protect herself from what she felt was like an awful nightmare. And unfortunately the nightmare didn't leave, and he took the blankets off of her and he just stared at her and her she said her ears were ringing, and he told her if you make one move, if you make one sound, I'll stick this knife in you.
And she said that when he talked, and she mentioned the same as others, that it seemed like he was talking through clenched teeth. And he just moved to the side of her bed and pointed at her nightgown and said take it off. And unfortunately, at that time it was her period, and he told her to take the tampacts out. It didn't seem to bother him in the least.
He just whispered take it out. And they told her told her to roll over and grabbed her arms and she could feel the gloved hands and the rope just bit into her wrists like it does with all of them. From then on, she kept her eyes closed, said she didn't want to open them, she didn't want to look at him. She just wanted to go away, and said it wasn't the rape that she would remember most. It wasn't the rape that would make her want to scream
and leave in the middle of the night. It was a terror he left her with, and that terror was that she was going to die, and that was one one of the things that she could not get out of her mind. And he kept asking her, do you have money? Do you have money? And when she tried
the answer, he told her to shut up. And she could hear him rummaging in the bedroom, and this is things that he did, and just tied her ankles up so she couldn't get out of bed, and then rummaged some more in the bedroom, and and he put the knife near her eye and said, don't make a move while I'm here, or I'll kill you. And he kept telling her, I'll kill you, I'll kill you, and she just the way that he did on this one here
we believe, and we're pretty sure of this. He talked as though there was somebody else in the room with him, in the house with him, But I don't think that that was happening. I think it was him and this was just something that he tried, and that was it.
And it's kind of interesting that he must have been interesting the police that he wasn't that interested about DNA. But then we're talking about nineteen seventy six though, But he's not very cautious. He doesn't use a condom.
Well, we didn't have DNA back then, We didn't know about DNA back then, so there really wasn't a problem that way. There was nothing that could have helped the only thing that we did find out was that he was a non secretor, and non secrets about twenty percent of the population, and through non secrets you can't get the blood type through any secretion, So I'm sure he didn't know he was a non secret But other than that, if we had not kept this evidence, we never would
have been able to figure out anything about him. And so he didn't have to worry about that, and he didn't worry about it. And like I say, he lubricated himself on these attacks, and sometimes he brought the lubricant with him, and sometimes he used what they had in
the bathroom. Sometimes he would break into the house when they weren't home and set it up and leave shoelaces hid in someplace and leave a door or a window unlocked that normally wasn't unlocked, and then he would come back later and when once they fell asleep, same thing with Kerry Frank. He waited until she was asleep. I'm sure he was outside that house for a long time waiting for her to go to sleep. This isn't something that that he would just arrive at the house and
go in and with carry Frank and with others. The hang up phone calls that they received is something that showed up in a lot of them also, so we know that he was in the neighborhoods. He was canvassing the neighborhoods, and he would see somebody that would get into his mind and that's where he was going to go. And my feeling is that once he made up his mind who he was going after, he would get that person. And like I've said, I believe that if he had to,
he would have gone down the chimney. But he was going to go into that house one way or the other, and he was going after that person.
Now we just talk about carry Frank, but you were talking about already talking about the similarities. Did he use sort of carry Frank or did it seem like the first rapes were sort of attempt Late he seemed to work out whatever little challenges he had. And then but you say he proceeded fairly methodically and carefully, and if he thought something was off, he would leave. So tell us as it progresses in nineteen seventy six, what becomes his sort of You've already talked about his m O.
But is it very similar? And were the first rate sort of a template of success? And so he continues like that, tell us how it really works.
Well. My feeling on it is that he had to have known what he was going to do before he put this together. As I got into it and was working on the task force, I thought nobody could have just started out this way, And we know through psychiatrists and all that that most of them start out with leaving Tom's and then maybe go to killing animals or whatever and then get into this. But my feeling was that because of the way that he did it and the template that he had, it was a good thing.
That maybe he had been in prison for something else and had worked this out with other prisoners and figured out the best way to do it. Because of that, I got the names of pearl Lees over a six month period and went through them. Didn't do me any good, So maybe that wasn't it. But he did have this plan worked out and he stayed with that plan. Now, when he first started, obviously it was a single female,
and I think he wanted to be known. He wanted this out there, he wanted the publicity, and as the newspaper did finally pick it up and put in there that there was always single females and no male in the home. His next attack was one with a male in the home. So obviously he had been school because he could read. And other than that, we didn't have much on him at all, and it was very, very frustrating.
Did he taunt? Did he as many of these guys do, serial rapists, serial killers? Did he do any taunting of police or victims? You said he had hang up calls beforehand, so just to check out who he was choosing as a victim. But is there any indication he kept trophies or anything that some of the other serial killers seemed to have share characteristically.
Yes, one of the things that we found that he did take was driver's licenses or ID cards from colleges of the women. He would take jewelry, he took money. But the strange thing is, obviously it wasn't for the money. There was one incident where they had a lot of money and he took half of it. And there were times when he really was irritated because he couldn't get a diamond ring off one of the victim's fingers, and she tried to tell him put soap on it, do this,
do that, and he couldn't get it off. He finally got it off and he told her if I can't get this off, I'll cut your finger off. Before he left the house, he just threw the ring on the floor. It wasn't the ring that he was after. It was the terror that he was after. And in every one of his attacks, terror was number one. Rape was in the back of his mind. Obviously.
Now right from the very beginning you talk about, well, there's many stories where police have no idea. In hindsight, everybody's a genius, But initially was there any How long did it take police to realize that there was a sophisticated, maybe cereal rapist at work, and how how long did it take them to figure that out?
It was probably three or four rapes before Sacramento Sheriff's Office finally put it together. I think Jim Bevans the sergeant at that time that was an investigation. I think he probably was the one that finally said, oh, we have something going here and we better be ready. And once they got into it, then they spent millions of dollars looking for this person, and over time that the officers didn't even put in for because they wanted to
catch him. These are deputies on the street, the detectives whatever. They knew that they had somebody, and they knew in their mind that before long somebody was going to get killed.
And it wasn't too long after that that. Remember in the book, sixteen year old boy was shot and what happened there The people in a house heard people as somebody in the backyard and saw him and chased him, the father and the son, and the son was faster than the father, and the rapist got over the fence and the boy got to the fence, climbed up on it, and he was crouched on the other side, pointing the
gun up and shot the boy. Fortunately he lived. But what psychiatrist told us was that he will kill he will not be caught. He will kill police officers, He'll kill anybody, and then if that fails, he'll kill himself, but he does not want to it caught, and so we knew that he would shoot. And that was February of seventy seven that he shot that kid, So you know, it was nearly near the beginning.
And so right away analysts looking at this because I could see where they could get that conclusion too. He could shoot a sixteen year old boy instead of continuing to run. He could have continued to run, but he shot him, so he tried to kill him. And so from there it's it's not much of a leap to say, well, maybe I doesn't want to be in prison. So they were right in all their predictions, at least with this
following of this guy. Now, how big a story is this in California and in terms of in the counties, it's probably a big thing. But how big is this story by nineteen seventy seven, the sixteen year old boy chasing after a perpetrator. You have a serial rapist on the loose in California here, How big a story is this by media? How interesting is this to the media.
Not it is to Sacramento, but that's it. Not nationwide and not out to the Bay Area. It wasn't in the San Francisco paper, and we knew nothing about it. Like I say, today, if somebody shoots a dog back in Florida, we're going to hear about it on the news that night. Back then, things like this happened and it was not the big thing. It was not in the news and didn't cover.
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And agencies didn't contact each other to tell him what was going on either, so it was very difficult.
I thought it was odd too. East Area rapist sounds pretty pretty ordinary compared to all the nicknames that these killers get saddled with. I thought he might be disappointed by that. Almost well, I think.
He probably called himself even the East Side rapist in one of the one of the conversations, so it could have been that. I don't think that he cared about the name. I think he cared about what was going on. And those are other things that happened. In one of the attacks, he told the woman this hadn't better get out. He told the husband, this is better get out, and I'm going to kill a cop and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to kill two people tomorrow night.
And so none of it really made sense. It was just something that went on. Things that he did do during these attacks, and some of them he stuttered, some of them he seemed to cry and sobbed and and one of them said, when mummy sees this, she bothers her, makes her mad on TV. Whether this is something that he made up, we don't know.
No way of telling, but it's from the witnesses that did have interaction with him, it seems that it fairly nonsense. Goal you say, he takes the ring off, throws it down, so I mean he's very.
Yeah, And like I say, he only took part of the money, didn't always take money. And the first time that I noticed that anything was different was when he did move down to our area down in the Bay Area and Contra Costa. In the first attack down there, he took things that you would need to set up an apartment, things that he had never done before, pots and pans, that type thing that was not anything that he did before. So it looked like he started out
in Sacramento. We believe he lived in Sacramento in the county. He moved to Contra Costa County. We believe he probably lived in Conquered while he was there, because Conquered is a central point. And then he moved to Galita area, Santa Barbara and in seventy nine. So anybody that has a friend or a relative or whatever that they know lived in Sacramento in seventy six, seventy seven, seventy eight, moved to Contra Costa County in seventy eight seventy nine,
and then moved to southern California in seventy nine. Not too many people can do that. And with this person, he spent most of the time his attacks were at night. Did he work during the day. Obviously he had money of some kind. Different cars were sighted and never seemed to be the same one. He did mention a van in many of his attacks, but wasn't seen Volkswagen have been seen a Pontiac that type thing, So it was different cars most of the time. And so how he
would come across that, I don't know. But what we have to understand is that in nineteen seventy six when he was hitting in Sacramento, there were over three hundred rapes reported in that area in nineteen seventy six and probably over two thousand unreported rapes in that area. So he wasn't the only one.
And they.
They did a study and they said that sixty six percent of rapes are probably not reported, and that was thirteen cities that they looked at.
At that time.
So in nineteen seventy six, forcible rapes that were reported in California, nine thousand, five hundred and some were reported, forty five percent were cleared. And Ear was not the most active one. He was just the most violent. And that was the one thing that you have to understand about Easteria Rapist, or Ear as we called him, He was from the very first violent. He wanted to kill. He wanted to kill, and he was going to kill. And the reason that I think that he finally did.
And I'm jumping ahead of you here. The reason that I think that he finally did was the last attack that he made in Contra Costa County. The people got away. Then he moved to Galita where he attacked a couple down there and they got away. And I believe that in his mind was nobody is ever going to get away again. And the psychiatrists that I talked to at the Vacaville Medical Center that said he needed the justification, I think she was true, and that was a justification
that he needed. And from then on it was the killing, and that's what he entered the house for, was to kill. And in the seventies we had the early morning rapist in Sacramento and he was never identified and he raped the thirty six women, but again they were on welfare, divorced, lower income. The Wooly rapist Sacramento called him that because of a wet wool odor and had him count a hundred backwards after he placed him in the closet and
he was arrested within a month. Lapd had a pillowcase rapist fifty four women and he was finally sentenced to twenty five years, got outen ninety five. In nineteen ninety seven, he was arrested in Indiana for rape. Berkeley had the Stinky Rapist at the same time he had the car Key rapist. He raped more than forty women and was caught. And San Diego PD had the East San Diego rapist. Dallas had the Friendly rapist, and they were all going on at the same time. We didn't know about them.
We had never heard about them. I didn't know about them until later on when I was starting to write the book and started checking on these And what they say is that seventeen percent of women are victims of rape. Fifty percent of them are under seventeen years old. That's over seventeen million people. And so the rapists are out there. It's just that this one here was so violent that he came to the forefront.
Now do you think with today's knowledge of these guys, Because I know that FBI profilers at a quanticle, we're doing stuff. Robert K. Wrestler and Douglas were doing stuff in the seventies with guys that had been arrested like Ac and Bundy and Dahmer and all these guys. So that's just the beginning of them interviewing those guys and then creating profiling. Was there any kind of victim type at all that he seemed to be interested in.
The only thing that I can say on this is that he did not go for low income, did not go for prostitutes, did not go for that. He went for middle class, upper middle class people safe in their homes. He would go into an area and knew what that area was and knew what type of person was in that area, and that's what he was after. Other than that, nothing, And we have the FBI is trying to do a profile for us on this one now, but you say it'll take at least another six months before they can
come up with anything. And again, it probably isn't going to lead us anywheres other than to say this is a type of person that you're looking for, and.
Be interesting what their take is on the likely occupation, because he would have to be fairly specific, I mean, to be able to, like you say, it's unusual the way he had the means he had this. He could have a certain schedule and obviously had some money. And then Vigetti's moving around California, so that it seems to be a specific type of occupation, some kind of self employment.
To a certain yes, it could be self employment. One thing that I tried to look at was possibly at that time he was in the military, and that would have been an opportunity. It's like one of the victims that he had, Francis Woods in the book, she was a reserved captain in the military. Her husband was a regular captain in the military, and their main base was in Fairfield, even though they lived in Sacramento. Could it
have been We don't know. We do know that at times, most of the time he wore tennis shoes, but sometimes he wore boots that the victims said looked like military type boot. One time he had a baton and in one of the attacks. But that doesn't prove anything. It's just something to look at. And the problem that we had back then, and I'm not sure that it's changed today, is that agencies need to work together, and unfortunately they didn't,
and that puts you behind. When Jim Bevans, the sergeant with Sacramento, heard about the double homicide down in Santa Barbara County and called down there and they said, no, we didn't have anything like that. Don't as you're talking about. I called, they said the same thing. And it was a couple of months later that Bevans found out that yes, they did have the double homicide, and just about the same time I found out that they had the attempted
rape where the people got away. And then we got the reports, and the reports were just the same as our reports. The ski masks, the tie up, the terror on the ones that got away, the dishes that he would put on their back, that type thing, And that's one of the other things that he started doing. When a man was also in the house, he would put dishes on their back and say, if I hear these, I'll kill you. If I hear these, I'll kill her
if I hear these. If there was a child in the house, if I hear these, I'll cut your child's ears off and bring them to you. And they all believed it. They knew that that was going to happen. Now, some of the ones I could talk to. I would go in and I would see and in my mind I'd say, Okay, these people are going to handle it.
They'll be okay. Other people you go in and you say, this marriage is not going to last, and most of the time was because the husband felt in his mind, I should have taken care of my wife and I didn't. And I'd try to explain to them if you did, you'd both be dead. You did what you had to do, But for them to get that in their head would be almost impossible. And so many of them ended up
and divorced. Unfortunately, one of them that you'll find in my book married, had children, very very pretty girl, and when I talked to her, I thought this rate didn't seem to bother her. She seemed to get excited from it. And two years later I was called by the state and Narcotics team and asked me if I would go to them on a search warrant, and I did and went in there and found pictures of her with her dover boyfriend. She left her husband and went the other way.
And those are just things that you just don't understand how it could happen, Whether it was because of what happened or what, I don't.
Know, but.
Well, he certainly described the terror, but also the trauma. I mean, this is a good point. I mean, why these people just it's unfathomable. It's this this terror that's and trauma that lives with these people forever. Tell us I wanted to know about you talk about this major point departure for this serial rapist ear when he has four escapees. Now, explain how he can go from this planning the very at least what what you consider the
first one in seventy six. Is he devolving? Is he getting less organized, like very much like a serial killer. Is this period of there was organized and then there's disorganized? Is he making less sense? I know that he responded to the media there's all there's no there's no men at the at the crime scene. So then next next crime he has men involved. So tell us about this. Is it a devolution? Is it what's happening with him that he has four escapees? Uh?
He's he became more brazen. I think he got excitement from what he was doing, and with a man in the house, it was just one more thing for him to uh to deal with and overcome and uh and
be in charge of. And some of the ones, uh, the one that that got away in Contra Costa County, he and his wife had worked out an escape route in case something like this happened, and it did happen, and fortunately the husband woke up while the rapist was standing there pulling the mask over his face and didn't have the gun in his hand, and he jumped up out of bed and started screaming at him, and it kind of surprised the rapist obviously, and he kept screaming
at him, and the wife at that time took the escape route and got away. This fellow was big enough where he could have picked up the stereo rapists and thrown him out the window, but he didn't. Once his wife got away, then he felt, Okay, she's safe. Now I'm going to be safe, and he ran also. And here walked out of the house and left things that happened to him, Like one of the attacks, there were kids playing outside. They were extremely noisy, and because of
that it threw him off. And he did not sexually attack the lady, and only because of the racket that was going on outside. It bothered him. So he had to have that in his mind of what he was going to do and how he was going to do it. And he followed that. He got more sophisticated as he went along, but did not change his pattern at all. Knew he was always going to have a mask, knew he was always going to wear gloves and did not leave fingerprints, and did not let anybody see him. And
the he raped a thirteen year twice. He raped two thirteen year olds, that's unbelievable, and one that was sixteen years old. He thought that she was somebody else. He thought she was a college student. He took her down to the field and was dealing with her down there, and finally she got through to him that no, I'm a high school person. It was not who he wanted. He left, he didn't raper.
Wow.
So it's incredible.
Yeah, a lot of strange, strange.
Your book really does read like a Criminal Minds episode. I mean a lot of people that read True crime also watched these programs because there's this, you know, some some truth to this stuff. I mean always you know that some of the stuff it could be plots for some of these fictitious criminal you know, Criminal Minds and other programs like that. Now, tell us about the murders. What what's the first murder characterized by h and tell us tell us about the first murders.
Well, in the in the murders, like I say, because I think because the two got away. From then on that was it. And in the Offerman Manning, Uh, it was a double homicide and he shot them, and I think in that case he learned that using a gun makes a noise, and from then on he didn't shoot. He bludgeoned to death. One other time he had to use a gun because I think the person got free and tried to attack him. But in Offerman in Manning,
they were found shot to death in their condominium. And it was not too far from the first Glata attack as a matter of fact, and the victims were both bound and indications were that the male victim, mister Offerman, somehow got his bindings loose and he lunged at ear
and ear shot him and then shot the female. And unlike all the other attacks where the woman was taken away from the husband, away from the mail to a different room, in this one, here they were both in the bedroom, so it indicated that he did not have time to do anything before he killed them. The husband got free and or the boyfriend got free and he had to shoot him, and that was when he started making a few changes. And after that, when he went
into the house, he went in with one intent. That intent was to kill, but that intent was to beat him to death, and he would bludgeon them, hit them in the head and kill him that way. And then in one other one bindings gout loose, and it looked like greg Sanchez tried to attack him and he shot him, that didn't kill him, and then he bludgeed him to death, and then bludgeon the woman to death.
So it was.
He had that in his head, and I don't understand how it went that way. My feeling today, I've been asked many many times, do you think he's still alive. My feeling is that if he had moved back east, he could still be killing and they never would have put it together. If he killed in one city and then went to another city and then to another city, probably would not be put together. Because now one thing that he did learn at the end was to take
the bindings when he left. Originally when the people were still living, of course they had to be bound, and he made sure that he was within easy distance of a freeway or whatever, so that he knew they couldn't get loose within five or ten minutes and he would be gone, so they obviously would be left tied. But once he started murdering after the first two. Then he started taking the bindings with him, so didn't even have
those left. And for years I would wake up two or three o'clock in the morning wondering what did I do wrong, What did I miss? Why did I miss it? It just doesn't leave you. Things like this stay with you the rest of your life. And the reason I wrote the book was to get the investigation going again. And I went self publishing because it's faster that way, and I just wanted it out. It didn't do it to make money on it, obviously, and it was just
something that I had to do. These people need closure, and it's not about me. It's not about the cops that work this. It's about the victims and the victims families, and this person has got to be caught at least identified so they can find closure. Can you imagine a thirteen year old happened to live the rest of her life knowing that she was raped by this person and not even know who he is or why she was attacked or anything like that. So very very very difficult,
hard to live with. And the things that if there's anybody out there that says, I know somebody that lived in those areas, you know, then they're the ones that we need, and we need a description, we need a name, need information. We've been on TV. There's been the A and E cold case that put one out, a network true Hollywood investigates put one out, and there's going to be another one in probably in March. Dark Minds is going to put one out and hopefully something will come
out of this. And now your radio program, I think is probably one of the best ways for something to come out. And I just really really appreciate you taking the time to contact me and get into this.
Well, actually, you know, the credit has to go to one of the listeners of the program, So I think you're very right that there could be a possibility that this might certainly lead to something. Who knows, But someone told me about your book and your investigation. So then I booked and I said, wow, I knew nothing about this,
and so we went from there. And so this person didn't want to be identified, but I did contact them recently and said, listen, thanks to you, Larry's going to be on the program talking about his excellent book here. So and she said, well, I'll be looking forward to that.
So great. There is here that if you don't mind putting out anybody that does have any information, they can do serial killer Clues at OCSD dot org and that's Orange County Sheriff's Department and they have teams that will look into it and take it from there.
And I'm sure if somebody were to listen to the program as well, they could always contact me. I could contact you, So there's ample ways they could do that. Now you talk about this has been thirty four years since you were first introduced to this Easter area rapist.
Yes, yeah, wow, yeah.
Had you've been retired since he'd be retired? Since when did you retire?
I retired in nineteen ninety eight, and it wasn't until I retired and moved here to Oregon that had the opportunity. A criminalist called me and said, I understand you're on the task force. Can you give me some names? And I did, and then he said, yup, it's we showed DNA. And I said, okay, I know if you can get some criminalists in southern California to work with you, I know the murders down there are our man and I knew of five, and he called me back months later
and said, no, they didn't have five. They had ten, and he said, we've already linked six of them with DNA, and that's when they flew me down there. And the thing is, I kept all the reports. They were being thrown out by my department, and I got there just at the right time as they were being thrown out, and I said, no, I'm keeping those and I've had them with me ever since. And that's the only reason
that the reports were there for Orange County. And once they got involved, I thought, Okay, now we have a chance. And then when he Entertainment was putting the show on, I said, Okay, my book isn't printed yet, but i'll give you my manuscript. You can use it. And they used it for the show. And so it's really it's going on now. It is being investigated again, and that's why I wrote it, and I just pray each day that somebody's going to come forward.
Yes, I really hope that that could come true. That would be somewhat happy ending, because they're never really, like you say, there's no real happy endings for victims or victims' families at all. But just for the peace of mind of the dedicated officers are on that task force, and people that were living with people on that task force. As you say, I think they've made dozens and dozens of television series or episodes and movies about the same
sort of thing. The toll it takes on the officers as they take it very very personally, and yet at the same time it pales, and you've written about that in the book, that it pales in comparison to the pain that these people have to So you reminded yourself of that.
Oh, yes, definitely. I finally realized it wasn't about me and it's about them, And I do stay in contact. One of the ladies that was attacked stays in contact with me, and she's doing very well. She's one of the ones that did survive and doing very well.
So let's just hope that. Yeah, it's a good point. Now, have you a website that people could go to about any any more information or again that.
They can go to.
Ear On's a E t V community and they'll be able to connect E A R O N. S.
Okay, great, And your book is through author House. It's self published, but through author House so and also through Amazon. Barnes and Noble. You can get it online. Is it an ebook form as of yet? Yes, it is kind Kindle edition as well. So it's in softcover.
Yeah, it's in softcover, hardcover and e book.
Oh great, So people can get it any way they wish, So that's great.
Yeah.
I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about this book Sudden Terror. Uh, you really really captured again the the essence of the man that's still living with this case. Like you say, you've had nightmares, you've had dreams, you've had and you're still saying prayers that somebody out there will make this connection and at least get some kind of closure for people, and it
would just be sort of a nice thing. That's for all the work and dedication and all the time that has been put in and all the victimization and again terror that this person has inflicted on all of California basically. So I want to thank you very much for coming on the program, Larry and.
The bad luck with this and thank you Dan very much.
Okay, well you have a great evening. Thank you very much, Larry.
Have a good night YouTube yea, by now,