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You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gaesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. One morning in July nineteen seventy four, Anita Andrews, the owner and bartender at Fagiani's Cocktail Lounge in Napa, California, was found dead in her bar, raped, beaten, and stabbed to death in a bloody frenzy. She had last been seen alive the night before, talking to a drifter who sat at the end of the bar playing cards and flirting with her,
but the stranger, along with Anita's Cadillac, had disappeared. Unable to locate a suspect, police investigators sadly watched a case who grow cold over the years. Meanwhile, a month after Anita's murder, young Michele Wallace was driving down a road in the mountains near Crested Butte Colorado, when she gave two stranded motorists, Chuck Matthews and a man named Roy, a ride. Dropping Matthews off at a bar, she agreed
to take Roy to his truck. She was never seen alive again, nor could a massive search of the mountains locate her remains. The trail leading to her killer also ran into dead ends. Fourteen years later, Charlotte Sourowin engaged to be married a smooth talking man at a laundromat in Livingston Parish, Louisiana. The next evening, her body was found in the woods. She had been raped, tortured, and her throats slashed. The police suspected her fiancee, Vince Lejeune,
though he proclaimed his innocence to anyone who would listen. Meanwhile, the man from the laundromat couldn't be located. The three murders would remain unsolved, eating at the hearts, minds, and lives of the women's families, friends, and communities. Then, in the early nineteen nineties, a rookie Gunnison County Sheriff's investigator named Cathy Young began looking into the Wallace case and identified a suspect named Roy Mellinson, a serial rapist from Texas.
Smooth Talker is the story of Melonson, his depredations, and the intrepid police work they went into bringing him to justice. The book that were featuring this evening is Smooth Talker with my special guest, journalist and author and publishers Steve Jackson. Welcome back to the program, and thank you for a greeing his interview. Steve Jackson, Thanks David.
It's always a pleasure to be on this show.
It's always our pleasure and my pleasure, so thank you very much, Steve. I won't ask the question how you came to write this because that will give a little bit too much away, and the audience will know what I mean a little bit later on. So let's just get right to July nineteen seventy four. Tell us a little bit about Napa Valley, California, and hopefully I didn't mispronounce in the introduction thag Yianni's cocktail bar, Muriel and
Anita and the bar has been in the family. Tell us a little bit about Napa Valley, California, and the bar the Anita and Muria alone. It's been in the family for a while. Tell us set the stage, please.
For sure. Back then, anybody who's familiar with the Napa Valley now knows it's quite built up and it's wine tourists sort of destination, very touristy, lots and lots of people. But back in nineteen seventy four it sort of still vineyards are going, all the famous ones or American vineyards are starting to go there. But it's still a pretty
quiet town and county. Lots of farms, rolling hills, not a lot of strangers, you know, it's sort of everybody knows everybody, though, you know, there's always a few drifters. But anyway, Fagianni's or for Johnny's, I've heard it pronounced a couple of different ways is a bar in downtown
Napa at this time in nineteen seventy four. It was founded by an Italian immigrant named Nick Fagiani, who came over originally to work with in the vineyards, but bought this place and started a sort of a family bar lounge, you know, kind of a working man's bar. Pretty much raised is his two daughters there, Muriel and Anita, and you know, for a while there it was quite like I said, working man bring your family in how your kids can run around the pool table, that sort of
thing that dogs are walking in and out. Pretty laid back place, in that sort of a setting. And the girls. Two girls grew up there. But by nineteen seventy four, this part of Napa was really pretty run down. It was kind of a lot of CD bars and a couple of CD hotels. The hotel right across the street from Fajanni's Cocktail Lounge was sort of a stepping stone out of the local psychiatric hospital. And you know, so
it wasn't the nicest part of town. But about five years earlier, in nineteen sixty nine, Nick Svajiani had died and left the bar to his They were trying to sell it. Would have liked to have sell it, but they kept it open. And they only kept it open because otherwise they would have lost the liquor license, which was about the only thing it had going for it. So that's the scene. Anita Andrews, the younger of the
two former County Beauty queen, she's now fifty one. In nineteen seventy four, she does most of the bartending at night. There's never a ton of people in there. There's always you know, on this particular night, there's three locals who are in there, kind of carrousing around town. A couple their workmen, and there's a guy kind of sitting at the end of the bar flirting with Anita, kind of flipping some cards around. It's doing those sorts of things,
but not a whole lot of other people. A couple of people drift in and out.
Now one of these gentlemen is David Loos, and he's gone to the washroom and his buddies, like you say, they're out carousing, and just describe this altercation and why this altercation occurs and what David Loose does.
Well, Like I said, the three guys workmen, construction workers, including David Loose is one of them. They've been kind of they've had a couple of beers already. They're kind of doing a bar crawl around town and are headed for yet another bar from here and just kind of
stop by for a couple of beers. But this guy on the other end of the bar, they can tell he's purposefully kind of trying to shield, has his back to him and when they kind of try to get a look at him, the shield the space from him and and he just sits funny, just kind of strikes him wrong some ways, and a little bit protective. Everybody in this town is Anita Andrews. And so anyway, you know, one of the guys that David goes off to the bathroom,
one of his friends. Besides, he does like this guy's attitude and actually starts yelling at him in the bar, saying, you know, hey, what's the matter with you? What are you trying to hide there? Which you know, he he seemed to have pegged it. But David comes out of the bathroom and here's his friend yelling at this guy. So he's kind of like, well, let's let's leave and
move on to the next bar. And Anita kind of, you know, once these guys out they've had too much to drink, doesn't want to fight there at the bar. She I don't think she sees anything wrong with this guy sitting at the bar trying that he's going to finish his drink and have his cigarette move along himself.
So but she doesn't want any fights, of course, so she kind of hustles the three guys out of the bar, and as they're leaving, David LuSE goes up to the guy and shakes his hand, and basically he's playing peacemaker. He says, you know, you know, we didn't mean anything by it, and have a good night, mister. And this guy doesn't say much of anything, but the three the three Carousers leave the bar, and the lathe in the bar or Anita and the guy sitting at the bar.
Now, what you also set the stage too, is that there's a not only are people other people in the little community of thirty four thousand and fifty miles north of San Francisco kind of protective Anita and her sister, but also that there's a police night, a night patrol, a nightly patrolled by police. And if they were to see the Padillac on the door, and they don't see Anita's tan colored Cadillac, then they would be doing further investigation. So it's sort of an unofficial thing that even the
police are protective of her. So now we're talking about the next day. Now Anita works at the Napa State Hospital for the criminally insane. I don't know if that's ironic, but the next day they call her mother, Muriel, and they're looking for So take it from there. What happens after that.
Well, they actually call Anita's mother. Mariel is her sister. The mother calls Mauriel and says, you know, your sister didn't show up her work today, and which is really unusual. Anita's very punctual, never misses work at the hospital. They really don't really like having the bar open, and neither one of them likes the neighborhood and are kind of scared of the neighborhood. So the mother calls Maryel and says, well, go check on Anita, see what she's doing. Maybe she's
sick at home or something. So Mariel gets in her car. She drives over to Anita's apartment and there's no one there and the Cadillac's not there. So she decides, well, I'll go down to the bar see if she went down there. Maybe she forgot something or whatever and went down there. And so she goes down and she arrives there and she notices that there's no padlock on the front door, but there's the Cadillac isn't around either, so unusual that, like, like I said, this is not a
nice part of town. And they went to extra efforts to put a big padlock on the doors to protect the place, so that's that's missing. But yet there's no sign of Anita outside as far as her cadillac. So maryel thinks that's curious. As she goes toward the bar.
Now continue with that, what does she what does she do? Does she call anybody to get some help or does she just venture into this bar herself?
No, she she goes into the bar. It's you know, once again, it's this is daytime now, and and so this is a place that she was passically raised as a kid, so she doesn't really have any trepidation about going into the bar. She thinks it's unusual that it's unlocked, and so she goes in and you know, just uh notices that the place is pretty clean, wh her sister was pretty uh dedicated to the place just being kept spotless.
But she does notice that there's an ash tray on the bar still, and so she goes and then she notices that the storeroom doors away from the bar at the back of the bar are closed, and that's unusual because they typically left just left them open and didn't go to the effort of closing those. So she went back there, still thinking this is curious. I'm sure she
called out for her sister, but there's no answer. So she walks back to the storeroom and gets to the storeroom and there it looks like just the savage attack of some sort. There's there's blood on the wall, There's there's blood on boxes, there's blood coming down off of stacks of beer bottles, and they're laying on the floor partly undressed, as her sister, Anita, who's been murdered.
Okay, so police arrive. Uh, they got to gather some evidence. So let's let's tell our audience what they do find in terms of evidence, what's missing, and just tell us what they find at this crime scene and the condition of Anita as well, what is what has happened to her?
Well, they come in this is this is the days before a lot of like crime scene investigators. But they do have a The NAPA Police Department can can't afford a criminologist of its own, so they had a guy over in Berkeley near San Francisco who was actually associated with the Diversity of cal Berkeley there and and they
call him over to look at this crime scene. You know, they just don't have these sorts of things you know, they're the kind of murder you'd have a NAPA would be somebody get mad at somebody else at the bar, something like that. But just this this savage attack on uh, you know, a woman who never heard anybody or or anything else. So they called in the criminologists and he went through there and he for that age. It was an amazing uh criminalist, crime scene investigator. I mean, he
he went over that place, picked up there. There's the ash tray that was on the bar. There was a single cigarette butt in it, and he took that, you know, he took photographs. One of one of the interesting things that he noticed right away was that all the barstools along the bar under the bar had been very neatly lined up almost you know, sort of uh you just to line them up like that, you you really want
your your chairs in a row. But the very last one, the one over by the ash tray, was still pulled out from the bar, as if Anita had not gotten around to putting it in its proper order or taking the ashtray off. So he finds that he finds a screwdriver and the sink. The sinks are clean, pretty much clean, but though some of the water will later test for some blood. And he finds a screwdriver. It's a little bit bent, that kind of a narrow screwdriver laying next
to the sink. It's obviously been washed off because it's even had a chance to believe, a small rough spot on the steel sink. And there's a toweling on the floor. So he gathers all these things. They takes, you know, Anita has taken for an autopsy. They find glass in her hair and a cut to her scalp, indicating she'd been struck by a bottle and this criminalist had picked up shards of that glass and took it with them.
They found another number of beer bottles that have been around that day, so they've gathered all those up so they be fingerprinted. But Anita, as far as her condition, she'd been stabbed thirteen times with the screwdriver, mostly in the chest. But just she had put up quite a battle. I mean that room that photos from that room have to have blood splattered from one one into the other. It was just she fought hard and but whoever was after was just in a furious rage and he ends
up stabbing her thirteen times. Attempted to specially assault her. Was not completely clear if he managed to do that, but it certainly just robed her and tried and so that that's and then and had also strangled and beat her or broke their nose was broken. She suffered a number of contusions, bruises, and lacerations in addition to the stab wos.
There was also she had no watch, ring or jewelry. There was no purse found, no credit cards, no car keys, and there was some bloody footprints, wasn't there?
Left right, there's a bloody footprint leading to the storeroom from the bar and the stairs that went upstairs to the office where her purse and the cash from the cash box and other things were all missing, along with the jewelry that united and there was one bloody footprint over by the door as the killer left the bar.
Now we're gonna I'm gonna ask you how police proceed Usually, of course, police look at the suspect closest to the most familiar, the ex boyfriend, the current boyfriend, the ex husband, the disgruntled employee, something like that. But we're also going to we've got to make sure that people understand there were no computers at this time in nineteen seventy four.
So before we talk about what happened a month later in terms of the credit card, let's talk about detective John Bailey and Robert Jarecki and what how do they proceed, who do they look at, how does their investigation move forward?
Well, it's you know, it's it's one of those good old fashioned gum shoe detectives where they hit the streets. They you know, they started canvassing the neighborhood looking to see if there's anybody had acted strangers there. Differently, they actually got a suspect of some guy who had checked into the hospital across the street and then checked out that morning, checked in the day before, then checked out
that morning, kind of in a hurry. So they're doing that sort of thing, just did anybody see anything, did
anybody hear anything? And they're also you know, they're talking to the ex husband, they're talking to the daughters, they're talking to friends and as as well as and and they developed you know, there was a boyfriend, sort of on again, off again boyfriend who had been she was done with him, supposedly because he'd run up a big telephone bill and I think he was just he worked for the carnival and was gone a lot, so she told others, including her daughter, that she was sort of
done with this skuy. But so they're doing that kind of good old fashioned, you know, trying to run down every lead that they can. And then during this during actually that first morning, David Luce, the guy we talked about from the confrontation the night before, had actually heard what happened and came over to the bar and described him and his three friends being there and that there was this stranger sitting at the end of the bar talking to Anita, and he was the last one left
in there. They actually, David Luth and his friends were suspected for a little bit or on the suspect list because you know, they're admitting that they may have been the last ones to see an need except for the stranger that nobody can see and has heard of or anything else. So they even had to be cleared, but it was quickly apparent that they had gone on to
this other restaurants and that sort of thing. So anyway, that is where we're at is they are just you know, they're looking for old people in the area who have done raped before or maybe delons or robbers because Anita was robbed and maybe she resisted the robbery. So they're running through those sorts of things.
Now, tell us about the break that they do get finally, because it does take a little while. It might have been a little bit quicker. But what happens thirty days later in terms of the credit card hit sixty miles northwest of Napa, So well, tell us a little bit both.
Yeah, well, you're right, there's no computers at this time, so they kind of had to wait for Yeah. I mean they could eventually get asked for credit card companies to you know, report any sort of transactions, but those would take you know, in this case, it took thirty days that On the night of the murder, the Tan Cadillac, a man driving a Tan Cadillac at pulled into a gas station down in Sacramento, which is about an hour away, and he had the attendant on duty.
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Be there noticed that he had sort of a towel on his lap and appeared to be bloody, but attendant for some reason didn't really ask him about it. He noticed that there was a woman's handbag in the back seat at a car and then when this man driving the Cadillac went to pay for it the gasoline, he handed them a credit card with Anita Andrews name on it and said that was his wife and even signed it A Andrews. Before he left headed south and which would be, you know, towards San Francisco, toward La.
Now with this information that they have, you know, too little, too late. But what does this trail lead to? For what does it lead to in terms of suspects?
Well, they actually some years later they sort of developed a couple of different theories. One is that you know, this is a stranger who came into town clime of opportunity the way that those guys left. He attacks Anita, who fly back. He kills her and robs her and
takes her Cadillac and disappeared south. And the other theory, developed actually more by the district attorney at the time, happened to also be a friend of Anita's, was that perhaps it was somebody who she knew who had done this and then possibly even taken the car somewhere and gotten rid of it, and then had doubled back. So for years no one quite knew who this killer was. Was he a stranger or was he somebody still living among them?
So I guess the cats of the bag, this case goes cold. So what we do jump to right away, and you do in the book, is that in short order, we're talking about August thirtieth, still nineteen seventy four, but this is eleven hundred miles to the east. So tell us about a little bit about twenty five year old Michelle Wallace. She's an avid outdoors person. Tell us a
little bit about her, she's an avid photographer. But tell us a little bit about this five foot six, one hundred and twenty pound beauty, Michelle Wallace, twenty five years old, and we're talking about eleven hundred miles away in August.
Michelle is quite an interesting person for her era. In nineteen seventy four, a young woman who you know easily went up into the mountains to go backpacking with her dog out in the photography. Was sort of very adventerous. She was about to go on a photo expedition for National Geographic, I believe, taking photographs of the hill people and Carolina's kind of last of that part of that civilization.
And I was working in the mountains of Colorado backpacking sort of a care free, happy go lucky spirit, had lived in asked in the area for a while and just sort of a bright light. One of those people that you know, everybody liked and mark to her own drummer. And so she's up in the mountains when in August nineteen seventy four.
Now, what is her plans she is doing this, but what is her ultimate plans she's going to do this for. She's got this assignment here for a couple of months, and then she has this other professional assignment. So and does anybody worry about this woman? And you said she's an independent type person, but just tell us about what she had really planned and if there wasn't any concern for her being able to take care of herself.
Well they her plans were Michelle. I think she wanted to be a professional photographer. And I don't know how much farther ed she was looking other than the next the next place she did. It was very close to her family, particularly her mother, who all lived back in a little feburb near Chicago Riverside, North Riverside, and and she, uh, you know, she checked in most every Sunday, and in fact, I think she always checked in on Sundays with her mom would call from wherever she was and check in
just to tell him she was good. But her mom also kind of lived through Michelle. If her mom had fathered, George had married young, and I think her mom kind of you know, lived vicariously a little bit to it Michelle's adventures. So she was always encouraging Michelle to to get out there. Michelle, after high school, went off to Spain for a while to study and travel, all with the blessing of her mom. So you know, her dad is a little more, uh, a little more concerned about it. He's,
you know, a typical dad. It's his daughter out there. But you know, they also took some pride in Michelle being such an independent spirit and you know, striking out on her own and and living the life that she wanted to live. Then she also had a friend, Donna. I don't know if you were I had were referring to Donna, but Donna to compeglie. I'm hoping I'm pronouncing that right, Donna, if you're listening. But she she's Michelle's
sort of her spiritual sister. These two were other their birthdays are only six days apart, and they met and kind of looking in the mirror and junior high and putting on the makeup, and it become pretty much during those school years in separable. And then after high school, course they were living their own lives and traveling a bit, and both of them sort of back up binding a bit, but they always checked in, and they wrote dozens and
dozens of letters. And I'm just one of those friendships you know that you know you're going to have when you're ninety some mid years old. You should in a good world.
Now, in late August, she plans a short trip. This is like the twenty seventh, and she says she's going to be back by September second, So we're talking just a few days, but she's gonna go. She's gonna go backpacking and then tell us about what happens, what's the circumstances where she meets Chuck Matthews and a stranger named Roy.
But as she said, she had gone backpacking for a few days in this area, and it's kind of she was going to come out this was this was going to be her last trip. She was pretty much done and and was going to have to move out of away from Gunnison, Colorado, where she was, and and go back easton begin this new job. So she's kind of taking one last hurrah on the Colorado Mountain and did that for a number of days with her her German
shepherd Okie. And she was walking out of from the trail head down to the road toward her car where she'd had to park a mile or so away from the trailhead, and these two guys came kind of up, bought past her and stopped and gave her a sip of beer, and they were going up farther, and she was walking down the road and they kind of came back and they passed her, and and she gets down and gets to her car, and well actually then they actually pick her up, and he starts giving her rising
in his car breaks down, So now they're all on foot. So they get the Michelle's car and they all pile on that and she's gonna take this is up near Crested Beauty, get twenty some odd miles away and she's takes herself and them down to Gunnison where she let Chuck Matthews kind of an old ranch and Vietnam. That guy a little bit of an alcoholic. She lets him off at a at a bar there, the Columbine Bar
in Gunnison. And Roy Mellenson says that you know, asked her if she could drive him a little bit farther and take him to where his truck is.
Now you said in the book that that was strange for Chuck, because tell us why Chuck thought that was very strange when he when Roy had asked this woman to drive him a few blocks to his truck.
Well, Chuck didn't know Roy very well. They had met in the bar the same bar a couple of days earlier, just having some beers and then kind of just spent the next two days out traveling around. Roy said, Oh, he's working for a rancher and there's a troublesome bear that they were gonna hunt. And but they're mostly wandering around drinking beer and uh, you know, just carrousing up
in the in the mountains there. When they come across Michelle and and they were driving Chuck's truck in our car, and just like it did when they met Michelle, it's kept breaking down and had flats and all sorts of problems. So when Chuck hears that, and when and Roy had never mentioned that he'd had a vehicle or a truck, they could have driven around or or something instead of his. So when Roy, when he hears Roy, and that's he only knows him by Roy. He doesn't never ask him
in his last name. Apparently only knows him by Roy. This guy, Roy asked the girl if he can she can drive him to his truck, and he thought that was strange because he'd never heard of a truck, this guy having a truck. But on the other hand, by this time, all Chuck wants to do is get into the bar and have a few drinks. So he against his better judgment, I guess lets the girl go off with this guy Roy toward his truck.
What's interesting too, is that he the Roy, says listen, I'll be back in a little while, and Chuck does not see him that night. And in fact, you talk about it's very, very different circumstances in the near future that they speak again. We're gonna use this as an opportunity, Steve to stop for a moment to talk about pro Flowers now. Mom has always been an expert on everything, cooking,
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on the microphone and type in true Murder. Remember Mother's Day is next week and order today because this offer expires Friday at midnight. That's ProFlowers dot com. Okay, Steve. When we last left off, we have Chuck Matthews thinks he something was strange when his friend Roy, who had mentioned the truck whatsoever, says he's going to get a ride and he'll be back, and he doesn't visit, He doesn't see his friend again, doesn't think anything of it.
What happens with this woman and the search for this missing woman tell us about that.
Well, Michelle disappears. Chuck is the last person to see her alive anyway, And what happens is that nobody really notices her roommate is out of town at a wedding for some other other things, and nobody really knows that she's missing until she doesn't make her weekly call home to her mother, Maggie. And Maggie of course is alarmed, just because Michelle was so regular about this and know that knew that her mom kind of waited for her calls.
But Maggie calls Donna, and Donna, you know, she thinks this is unusual too, But then again, you know, Michelle's twenty five years old. She might have found some people she was having fun with up in the mountains and decided to stay an extra day or so, and or maybe had a new boyfriend or something like that. But these are these are the days before cell phones, so it's a little harder to call home, and so she wasn't completely alarmed. You know, she believed in her friend's
abilities to take care of herself. She knew she was a you know, quite the outdoors woman. She's row climber and done all sorts of things. So she wasn't terribly alarmed at first, but her mother was. And a day later that her mom called the sheriff's office and still
hadn't heard from her daughter. And now the sheriff's office decides, well, okay, you know, kind of at her insistence, they send the in officer, the lieutenant actually a sub lieutenant to her off her apartment, Michelle's apartment, just to see if you know, he can find her and say, hey, call your mom
or whatever. Find out something gets there and Michelle's roommate has returned, but she says, you know, Michelle hasn't and she's a little concerned about it too, because she knew that Michelle needed to work and was supposed to pack up her things and be getting getting ready to move on, and she hadn't heard from her either. So now people
are starting to worry. And this continues for several days until a massive search is launched for once again, this is Dennison, Colorado is a very in a very rugged area of Colorado of the mountains and valleys and rivers and all sorts of places that a backpacker, especially one alone, could have fallen and been injured or or anyone of a number of different things and be looking for some help. So a massive search is launched.
Now what do they What kind of results do they net from this search for enough on these amount of days, and what happens? Do they find her car?
Know that at first they don't find her car has has disappeared, which is unusual as a red red car. They were doing air searches and everything else and they
couldn't find it. Now, so this this goes on for a little bit and then finally one day Chuck Matthews, our guy who was hanging around with Roy, he hears on the radio that they're looking for a girl with a German shepherd who was supposed to be backpacking in the area that he had been and he realizes this it's the description of the girl who gave him and Roy a ride back to Gunnison, and so he contacts the police. And so now the police are worried that
she actually did come out of the hills. They know that, so she's not in the hills anymore, according to this guy Chuck, but she disappeared in the company of a man that nobody knows, named Roy Mellinson, and this has followed up with a report. Shortly after that at a rancher calls up and said he shot a German shepherd dog,
matching description of the dog lasting with Michelle. And it does turn out to be Oki with a dog was running loose and chasing cattle, and so the you know, as ranchers will do sometimes if something bothering their lives, thoughts he actually shot the dog, and so now they know things are something's really wrong. Michelle came out, she disappeared from with the company of some man nobody knows.
Her dog is running around loose. She was very attached to the dog that would have never happened, or they can't find her car. So things are pretty desperate at this point.
Now they have one lead in terms of Chuck Mouths who says that Roy had said he'd worked for a sheep rancher. So they were looking for a sheep rancher in Scholfield Park. What were the efforts there? Did they need any results?
Well they did, and they found found the rancher who had hired Roy Mellinson to watch, actually to hunt some coyotes and and that sort of thing. Roy was. Roy has the book is named Smooth Talker. Roy was a real smooth talker, and he had talked his way into having a job, uh supposedly hunting kyotes that were bothering the sheep ranchers herds. No, no real proof that he ever accomplished much of anything, but that's just who he was. So they did find this rancher, and the rancher yes,
he'd hired a guy named Roy. In fact, he knew his name was Roy Mellinson M E L A N S O N and uh and said that you know, the guy didn't have much of anything, certainly didn't have a vehicle, didn't have uh, you know, had to be loaned to sleep sleeping bag for that matter, to be able to work. But he had fired him because he wasn't getting his work done and was hanging out with his family sort of a hippie family in the hills there, so you know, and hadn't seen him in several days. Now.
Roy Mullinson's as you're described in the book. He's six foot, one hundred and ninety pounds, thinning hair and you say, remarkably large hands. He's born on February thirteenth, nineteen seventy thirty seven in Boroughbridge, Louisiana. And you say he was well known to law enforcement in southern Texas and Louisiana even before he was twenty years old. Tell us what kind of crimes he was first convicted of and known for in Texas well.
He kind of starts early. He's still a minor when he gets his first burglary, raps and breaking and entering and does these sorts of things. Eventually, uh gets a little bit older and serves some time in prison. Then when he gets out he kind of ups the any a little bit by trying to uh and brutally trying to rape his cousin, a female cousin, and he's actually convicted of this, but he takes off and uh, you know, and doesn't serve much of it much of any time.
He just he just kind of disappears and he he commits, he commits several rapes down in Texas. One uh that he's again he's a victim testifies that against him at an arraignments and and he.
Is Ryan here. And I have a question for you. What do you do when you win?
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No, we're not necessarily dally REVOI wherever if I lost the terms of conditions eighteen plus and.
He gives bail and goes and lives in a different
part of the state. And finally gets caught again when he this is nineteen seventy four February or so I believe of nineteen seventy four, where he rapes yet another woman, and this time he takes her and drives her back and forth for a few days from Texas Louisiana, raping her, threatening her rope around her neck, and she ever struggle, he would tighten the garrets and choke her and just sort of a brutal few days of this young woman she was only seventeen at the time I had to
endure with him. But at the end she talks him into being condensed to him that maybe they could be an item, and and you know, he shows her his actually shows her his driver's license and the adnits he kind of stopped her around the high school and this sort of thing. So she when she finally talks him into letting her go, she goes to the police and he's arrested, and this time they have him in jail for when again he's going to skip town.
The sort of the seems a situation constantly is he gets a fairly stiff sentence, but through parole and through various other things, will various other circumstances. He seems to get out in a fairly short period of time. That continues even though he has these very serious sexual asault charges, doesn't.
He yes, And in fact, in nineteen seventy four he's he's he skips bail again. He that that's it's part of his you know, he I think it's it's there's a couple of interesting things here. One is the you know where where the name of the book comes from. The smooth talker that he talks these women into. Oh, he's going to help them get gas when they run out of gas, or he's going to change a tire for him, or or he does all these sorts of things. And and he's kind of a smooth talker no matter
where he goes. So he's yeah, he doesn't spend. He goes to prison and doesn't you know, he gets twelve years, serves six. He he a couple of times he gets bail and he takes off on bail, even though he's done it before. So in nineteen seventy four he actually skips town and takes off with his Some say his wife is just a go from but woman he got pregnant and takes off for Arizona while he's out for this nineteen seventy four rape, the one where he was
taking the young woman back and border. And so it really is that, you know, law enforcement sort of fell down the job here about putting this guy away when he's obviously a serial rapist at the very least, and he's escalating, things are getting more violent. He's threatening to kill him, he's got a gun, he's you know, he's getting worse.
Tell us about Sally Burton, just to further cement the m O and signature of this Roy Mellenson.
Well, Sally Burton is a I told you about. He was the sheep ranchers that he's living with a family there. And there's this Burton family that's kind of up at this family cabin up in the hill. The mom and her five daughters are all there, and the dad is
they're from Pueblo. He's back working DNA Pueblos. But royce his way into into the good graces of the Burton family, at least mom at first, and then he takes a particular shining to Sally, who's fourteen years old, and the he's and I can't imagine doing this as a father of daughters myself, but she allows Mellonson to talk her into when they have to go back to Pueblo to join her husband after their vacation, she tells Mellonson, sure, her fourteen year old daughter can stay behind with him
and you know, come down later when Melonson to return her to Pueblo. So she's they leave Sally with him and they have a sex relationship going on where she's pretty much kept a prisoner in the in the cabin. This is a little bit different. He's using his charms and and that sort of thing on her. I mean, she knows that she has no uh, she better not try to get out of leave the cabin, and she better do what he wants when he asks for sex. But this isn't the brutal raping and threats to kill
that some of these other others were. He's he's quite a chameleon when he's uh, you know, he can be perfectly charming in a situation, even though of course this is a sexual relationship with a fourteen year old.
Now, tell us about Melonson and and Michelle Wallace, how how they meet, and tell us a little bit both their meeting.
Well, Roy had had as we said, Roy gets picked up by Michelle and with Chuck, and then he leaves with Michelle. And then Michelle hasn't heard of And now once we get the sheep Rancher and Chuck Matthews and these guys there, they now know they're looking for a guy named Roy Mellinson could be driving a red Moss station wagon, which was miss Michelle's car, and so they're looking for this guy. And so they have a bowl platform and and and in the meantime, Roy has taken
off in michelle station wagon. He's cashed some checks. He uh now takes her. He goes down to Pueblo to see Sally Burton, and Burton stays down there for a little bit. He actually has Michelle's camera and somebody takes a photograph of him laying on on the couch there at the Burton home with a young visitor, not one the Burton girl, but a visitor from a different town, uh sitting in front of him. It's kind of a very creepy photo, and it's the very last photograph taken
on the film that Michelle had in the camera. So but he later he takes that camera and he hawks it and ponds it actually and ponds her her camping
equipment and drives her car all over the place. He drives it a thousand miles down to Texas, out to Oklahoma, and he finally meets this other guy and and they kind of become drinking buddies, and he ditches the Subaru down in Texas and drives back up to Pueblo, and he's kind of hanging around to school looking for Sally Burton to get out of school with this other guy. And when he gets pulled over by the police because somebody reports sort of tow creepy middle aged guys hanging
around the school looking for looking at the girls. So he has pulled over, but the police computer such as this at this time is down, but at first nothing happens, but then shortly afterwards the computer goes back up and the police officer who would pull it pulled Melonson over and Dina's driver's license now learns that Mellonson has wanted for both a rape in Texas and he's wanted in Gunnison, Colorado, and so he goes Actually they eventually find they eventually
find Melons and there's an off point bulletsin and there's a man hunt for him in Pueblo and they eventually catch him at a motel.
Well, how does tell us how this thermon gene Welder fits in this as well? Because he spends it again is incredible. You say, he's a born bullshitter, but he talks to a guy and then he meets in a bar and the next thing you know, he's convincing him of his way out of a white catile. Actual tell us about this?
Yeah, so this is this is the guy he meets when he's driving the Subaru around and and they become drinking buddies. He details, uh Wilder that oh I you know, Wilder's a heavy construction uh uh heavy uh uh equipment driver. So Mellinson said, oh, you know, follow me at the Pueblo. I got a friend up there who can give you a job right away. So that's basically wild Wilder is with him. Other than you know, Mellonson is a is a good talker and and uh guess good to drink
with and that sort of stuff. So's I mean, we're not talking about a couple of rocket scientists here. So we have Wilder and Melonson in there. You know, Mellinson gets him to come up to Pueblo, which was Mellenson's only real motive there was to ditch the Subaru a long ways away down in Texas and then returned to Pueblo to find Sally Burton.
Now, once these guys are arrested, you say, they find So they find the pawn tickets, one for the sleeping bag and a backpack, and then the one for the thirty five millimeter camera. They find an unused bus ticket from Gunnison to Peblo and a set of mazdakar keys. So how do police proceed with this information?
Now, Well, they did. They actually developed the film. Me Inson is arrested and he's taking up the Gunnis and he's wanted now for questioning in the show case. But he's also there's a check forging the charge against him that gives them the ability to arrest him and take him up there because they can't charge him with anything. And Michelle's case, they don't know what's happened to Michelle
at this point, but they do manage. They're taking back the Gunnisan on the check charge, so they've got him in custody. Now they're trying to figure out what to do, so they run some of these pawns down they pawn the camera, I believe in Iowa or Oklahoma. I figured which one it was now. But and on the bed they developed a film in the camera, and most of it are photographs that Michelle had taken during her trip, you know, herself or her dog, the outdoors, the sorts
of things she liked to do. There's a photograph taken of it by somebody of her and the dog standing with some family that we still don't know who they are.
But at the very last frame on this role of film that's developed, there's Mellonson laying on the couch with the girls in front of him, reading the newspaper, and it's it's just sort of definitely ties Melonson to Michelle's camera, which, of course, you know Mellonson that was at some points was saying that he'd never met Michelle, never didn't know her,
the sorts of things. Now of course decides finding the subrew and and Wilder saying yeah that he was driving red subru and we went here and there and that sort of thing. Now they can connect Mellonson to Michelle. They just don't have what happened to Michelle or her body. If she was killed and left somewhere. They don't can't find her, they don't know where she is. They don't really want to prosecute a case in which they can't
yet prove murder or with the body. And so Mellonson is basically up in Gunnison where he beats the check charge. But he's taken to Texas for the nineteen seventy four rape he conducted down there where he is convicted and now he's sentenced to life without parole for as a multiple offender, a three time loser, and he gets sentenced this this big supposed sentence that she'd put him away for good. Unfortunately it doesn't.
Now in this interim period of where the case Skoll is cold and technology is developed and other people come into play and other characters, and we talked about Kathy Young, Let's also maybe can tell our audience about what happens to Michelle Wallace's mother, Maggie.
Well, sure, this is it's just the whole Wallace story is just such a huge tragedy. After after it became a parent that Michelle wasn't coming home and stayed you know, there's all this this growing stuff and then they hear that she had disappeared in the company of some guy named Roy, and that they had arrested him and found
her camera with him. Maggie despairs that, you know, she kept holding on the hope, you know, maybe Michelle was being kept somewhere, or had you know, been hit on the head, if I following off a cliff or something been hit on the head. Her friend Donna Campeglia was the same. They're all trying and hoping to believe that somehow Michelle was still alive. But this kind of it doesn't, especially for Maggie, who gives up on Michelle coming home or and even that they can't even find her body.
That's just getting to her. So she gets worse and worse and mentally and with draws. And so one night she was about to go to bed with her husband and she makes up some tea and gives him to ask him if he wants Somebody tries it, but it's kind of bitter, so he decides he doesn't want to drink it and puts it down, but she drinks hers and to go to bed, and in the morning wakes
up and his wife has dad. She'd taken an overdose in her tea and left the message though saying, you know, when you find my daughter's body, please bury her with me. And so you know, this death or disappearance of Michelle Wallace is compounded by now the suicide of her mother.
Now, in nineteen seventy nine, you talk of a hiker named Thomas Cools and he's walking along the logging track off the main road over Kebler Pass. And what we didn't mention is that Michelle Wallace had sort of a telltale long dark hair in two thick braids, and two thick braids had been found or tell us about the two thick braids that were found.
Well, the hiker you're talking about, he's walking along a sort of a logging road, but it's not very used at this time. It's getting sort of overgrown. And then he's hiking along where he finds up on the road who has apparently been dragged by a scavenger of some sort human scalp of with dark hair with two thick braids, which he you know, he recognizes as seems to be human. So he takes it down to the sheriff's office and
it's then confirmed to be human hair for sure. But they can't yet prove that it's Michelle's hair because they don't have anything to compare it.
Yes, and we.
Got to mention too that we're also talking about nineteen seventy nine, so we're many many years away from any kind of DNA discovery or announcement or development at all.
Right, you know, it's so a gleam in the scientist. I guess sure.
So let's talk about a real central figure in this, and that's uh, the young police officer Kathy Young. So tell us about her.
Well, Kathy Young, she had she was the youngest detective on the Sheriff's office. She she'd come up to, uh, it's Gunnison area about a year after Michelle, also a young woman kind of out for adventures. And you know, this is that that time in the American culture and history where women were starting to assert themselves and being able to do anything men could do. And Kathy was
another one. And she eventually worked away into law enforcement and became a deputy and then became the investigator, the youngest one on the Gunnison County Sheriff's department. And she was basically the police officer or the chief up in Crested Butte, which is the ski area fairly near Gunnison, in the area where Michelle had been hiking. Says, you know, there's an old cold case that he might be interested in some time about this girl, Michelle Wallace, who was
twenty five when she disappeared here in seventy four. And Kathy goes and starts looking into it. There's another deputy, deputy, Scott Jackson, who was involved in the search for after the hair was found on the road, they again mounted a large search and tried to search this whole area to see if they could find her bones or body. So again that they did try to go forward with some sort of a case against Melonson, who at this time is as we know, is serving time in Texas
for rape. And so Kathy and Scott he shows her the evidence box and she sees the hair and which kind of fests her back a little bit, makes it very real. But they also and and and Kathy sort of identified with Michelle. You know, here's another young woman's same approximate ages, very close, same sort of wanting to get out there and be adventurous and love of the mountains in Colorado. So she comes along and uh and looks at this box and in what another part of
the box that they didn't notice. Is that early on in the investigation, within the first few days, that officer who went over to Michelle's house and met a roommate, asked for anything that Michelle might have used that but only Michelle used and it so happened that the roommate had given her a hair brush or given this office or a hair brush, and so Kathy's used the thing. And now they have this hair from the found on
the road. So they send the hair from the hairbrush along with the hair on the road to the Colorda Bureau of Investigation, and it's confirmed that Michelle's hair from the hairbrush and they have ever found on the road are Michelle's are identical. They're both Michelle. So we now have more proof that Michelle is actually dead. But it's still not a case. It's still not enough of the case to go after Mellinson. They need to find Michelle. They also and Kathy also needs to build more of
a case against Mullinson. Revisits the old witnesses, try to find Chuck Matthews, trying to find the sheep rancher repeace this case together and try to build a case against Melonson.
Where the braid is found and where the dog was found shot, it's sort of in the same vicinity, within twenty miles or so, so they know they have a better idea of the area that they might be able to search for. But they also have some information. They don't know how useful it is. But there's a couple of inmates that apparently Melinson has bragged to what the information A little bit of bits of information do they get from these two inmates, But the's.
Two inmates Mellinson and brags that he'd raped and killed a girl up in the hill. He talks, he tells various stories, one of them that he knocked her teeth out with the hammer or whatever so she can be identified, or he you know, he'd done this and that, and so he basically he confesses to a degree, but he also changes his stories around a little bit. And part of that maybe that you know, he's trying to see who's gonna leak information after the sheriff, and and who
knows what he's doing. He's you know, he's obviously a sociopath. He's you know, we know at this point, law enforcement knows at this point that he's at least a serial rapist, and now they believe he's also a murderer.
Now with you even talk about when he's in prison, he couldn't stay out of trouble. And what is he accused of in prison, Well.
He's accused of killing his There was a young black man, kind of a small guy in prison and Melonson was said to have beat him to death and strangled and beat him to death. But nobody had This is down in Texas, at Texas prison, and nobody was coming forward to you know, you don't snitch even on something like that, apparently, and so he was it was believed that he killed this young man. But and he had later bragged about it. But he you know, doesn't get and doesn't get into
any real trouble. And in fact, during this time closed life sentence that he was supposed to have received. The he gets his, he gets to repeat offender statue used against him overturned, so instead they recent them to thirty years, but he ends up serving twelve years and instead gets out in nineteen eighty eight. So and this is during the time when Kathy Young over in Dennison, Colorado, is
working on the case. So these things are kind of happening jointly that Mellinson gets released out of prison about the same time Kathy starts to really dig into this the Michelle Wallace case over in Colorado. So we had Melonson at luth in nineteen eighty eight and Kathy Young work on the Michelle Wallace case in Colorado at the same time.
Now he's released in nineteen eighty eight, so now we're talking about this fourteen years later. Mellinson's now fifty one. He goes to live to Port Arthur. He's staying with the mother of his son that he once abandoned in Tucson and her current boyfriend, and the couple was renting an apartment from Pauline Clump, a fifty one year old woman. So take it from there. What happens with Pauline Clump and Mellonson.
Well, Pauline shows up one day and she's going to pick up a TV from this apartment that she is menting to this couple where Mellinson is also staying, and she notes says something about that she has an air conditioner that needs some help, and Mellonson of course said, though, I you know, I can repair air air conditioners and that sort of stuff. So they leave the apartment complex and Pauline's car and then the next day, Pauline's car is found in a grocery store parking lot. But Pauline
is missing. She's never been found, and Mellinson disappeared left town that day.
Now, just just terror. Never in horror, story doesn't end for the victims. There's another person that's sucked into this vortex of murder is a person named Vince Lejeune who has a His fiance is Charlotte Sorowin. So tell a that's what happens with these people, and this is two hundred miles east of Port Arthur, Texas. Tell us a little bit about this couple.
Well, they're a young couple. They're twenty four years old. They planning on getting married in about six months when Vince turns twenty five. It's sort of the dates stayed set. But they're a young Louisiana couple from a very small town, Walker, Louisiana, which has been the Livingston Parish and sort of a one store town sort of place. But they have their dreams.
They have. Vince has bought some property outside of town, and they would like to put their dream house up there and raise a family and all these sorts of things. But they they're trying to raise the money to have it cleared. It's been a it was a logged area, so there's a lot of stumps there, there's a lot of brush trees there's it just basically needs to be bulldozed and cleared. So he's trying to save up money.
But he's a twenty four year old and he's you know, every time he saves the time he spends a nickel. So there's that sort of thing. So at this time, they're sort of living on her parents' property. There's a shack that's been remodeled kind of shack shack. It's actually the interiors okay with it tiny, and it's on her mom and dad's property. So she Charlotte is looking to she really wants to move. She wants to move there.
They have a trailer travel trailer that then uses in his work as a storage tank repairman, and she wants to move the trailer out to their property instead up out there and start building their home as they can. And so they're they're doing a little bit arguing about this because Vince isn't saving money very fast, and so she comes home one day and says, well, I met this guy at the laundromat who says he thinks he can get it clear cheaper than the guy you're talking to.
And Vince is getting a little irritated this time because she keeps bringing us up and he keeps thinking she's pressuring him, and they're doing that sort of twenty four year old back and forth. So you know, he finally just says, oh, you know, go ahead, if you think he can get it done, to go talk to this guy. So Charlotte says she's gonna meet this guy the next day and they're going to go out to the property and he's going to give her a bit for clearing the property.
Now, what's the next thing they have? You talk about that they're having this little argument and and you know, maybe even it didn't even say honey, I love you, because they are having a spat. What happens next and tell us a little bit about the nightmare that Vince enters into.
Well, he, like you said, he they have this spat. The next morning we leaves for work. He kind of leaves in a little bit of a huff, and you know, he could never and it bothers him to this day. Remember if he totally he loved her or or anything like that. I guess those those sorts of things that we think about many years later. But so he comes home from work and he kind of wants to kiss
and makeup and and move on from there. But Charlotte's not there when he gets there, and he's you know, so he's just waiting and tinkering around the house and cooks a couple of stakes up for him, and it's still not It's starting to get dark, and she's still not there, so he decides to go look for and he he first he goes and talks to the parents that they always start her to drive off this afternoon, and then he goes and tries to talk to one of her best friends and said, well, she was talking
about meeting this guy at the laundromat who is going to you know, show her or go look at the proper be with her and give her a bit on getting that cleared. And you know, she's tired of waiting
for this to be done. That sort of stuff. And he even talked to one of his buddies who says that he had seen her talking to some stranger outside the launder matinate apparently talks something about the property at that point, so Vince decides he better go atle out to the property and and see if she's out there. Wouldn't have been totally unusual for her to go out there. She likes to go out there and sit in her car with the stereo doing and listen to music and
plan her dream house and that sort of thing. Now was a little bit later than she would have normally been out there, so he thinks, well, it's you know, it's rural property. There's not a lot of people out there, so you know, whatef her battery went at or something happened or or anything along those lines. So he decides to drive out there and gets out to the property.
It's out on the stick quite a ways, and goes down the bend of the dirt road and turns the corner and sees her car just off the road in the weed, but in the weeds, and you know, drives past, stops his truck, goes back to look and notices that the stereo has been ripped out of the car, And now he's really worried. He thinks, you know, believes that something's real bad has happened, and even looks in the trunk, but he doesn't touch the rest of the car because
he doesn't want to disturb a client scene. But he's worried that whoever did it might have put Charlotte in the trunk, and so he looks in there but can't find her there, so he starts walking around calling for her. It's very dark. He didn't have much of anything to look for. He has a flashlight, but he's it's a
large area, so it doesn't get far. And he sees a neighbor quite a ways away pull into a driveway, so he hops in his car truck and reverses out of there and actually hits Charlotte's car, and he's doing that but manages turn around and go down to where this neighbor is and gets out and says, help me, help me, you know, call the police please, And the police come out and they they do quite a search. This was probably eight o'clock, nine o'clock when they're called.
At about two am in that morning, when Vince is there, they're waiting. Everybody's out and they're all searching this wood wooded area. So it takes four or five hours before they come back to him and tell him that they found Charlotte. She's been murdered. And and so that's when the nightmare really begins.
We won't have time to go into this because this is almost like we're you've jam packed so much information into this relatively, you know, not a huge book, but we're not even halfway into this story. You say, the nightmare for Vince Lejune is just beginning.
He has had to read Dan.
Yes, well, we still have a little bit. What I wanted to do was fast forward a little bit too, just the role that Kathy Young has in this And as of nineteen ninety, Kathy Young is on the trail of this man, and she doesn't immediately get to the satisfaction that she wants immediately, but she gets on his trail.
And so a great part of this book, I guess, the upshot of this book is the fine work that Kathy Young does, the dedication that she has, and then the small I guess satisfaction that some of these people have after many, many years of going to court and having Roy Mellinson at least get justice served and it's very interesting too. We won't get into it, but it's unusual for the behavior of of a kind of a killer like this for him not to even attend his
own trial. So that's another part of the book that's quite a fascinating aspect of this guy's character. I wanted to say too, maybe you can talk about it a bit that what this book does is successfully tie in another story that you were on this program with No Stone Unturned, and the fine work of a group called necro Search. So just tell us a little bit about, without giving any more away, of this story and then the incredible trial with the display boxes with the black
cloth over it, and how effective that was. Again, we're just going to have to let the people that have listened to the program so far go and explore the book and find out for themselves, But just tell us a little bit about the incredible tie in between this story and your other book, No Stone Unturned.
Well, the story of Necrosearch International, which is a group of there's scientists, there's law enforcement, folk performer and even some current people with various sorts of expertise, whether it's lying drones or botanists or prins. The canthologists, but they were formed to as a to help law enforcement find the clandestine graves of murder victims, or sometimes not graves but just remains or even evidence, so law enforcement contacts them.
Back when I wrote notes on Turn in two thousand and two, there they were still sort of a fairly young group and that law enforcement, you know, wasn't always convinced that they could work with. Over the years, they've really proven themselves. In the Michelle Wallace case was one
of their first big ones. And this is in net Research International with was able to who put together a search for Michelle Wallace's remains, partly based on some biological material that was discovered in the hair, along with narrowing some things down, and eventually first found the skull and then we're able to find the rest of Michelle's remains, which showed that she the body had been thrown from an embankment above on the road above and come to
rest against the tree. This becomes of course, just a big part of the trial, particularly when her skull is mounted inside of a glass case, a kind of a black material draped over it, and a moment naturally this
is one of the pre trial motions. But when Melonson is there, and probably one of the reasons why he doesn't attend the trial is they unveil the skull and he is finally confronted with you know the results of it is evil and uh hevisibly uh is shaken by the by this and uh and it's you know, as you say, part of the story, but it's really was
uh NET Research Internationals first UH real success story. They've had many many sins, but uh, you know, without it, uh, the ability to successfully prosecuted this case probably doesn't happen. And if it doesn't happen, then these other cases we've discussed never get solved as well.
It's a lot of incredible in it. Go ahead.
Sorry, well, I'm just gonna say and and and I gave we gave credit to Next Research International, which is a wonderful organization. I'm proud to be associated with him. But Kathy Young is really the dry She's simply heroic in how she went after Mellonson and without her dedication and what she did, these other cases also never gets solved.
And in the it's quite possible that Roy Mellanson would be well probable if she didn't solve the Michelle Wallace case, that he would be out and still attacking women.
Yeah, that's an incredible fact. And everybody was cognizant, especially Kathy Young, of the fact that this guy kept getting out and could be out, and every time he was out there was evidence of, and rumor of, and and all kinds of talk of all the other murder and rape that this man was committing. He never stopped for
a second. What's fascinating about for those that are going to buy this book and read this book, is that the re emergence of people like David Loose, such a you know, sixty seven years old dying of answer comes to the trial Muriel Anita's sister of course, vince Le
June as well. So all of these people, including the detectives and all the fine people that were instrumental in gathering the evidence, and all the other people that were witnesses with regrets and wanted to have some kind of closure. It had affected their life incredibly, all of these people. It's an amazing trial and result and story about all of the characters involved and all of their reactions to all of the things that go on in this incredible
and very dramatic and dynamic Trial. I want to thank you very much Steve for this. For those that have been listening to the program, we have some Wild Blue Press giveaways. Again, maybe you can tell our audience about the prizes that you are going to be giving away, and I will tell people how they can do that. Just tell us a little bit about what you're giving away this evening.
Well, we're giving away five audiobook copies of Smooth Talker, which is the story we've been talking about, and we're going to give five e books copies to your listeners as well, so a total of ten ten copies. And the only thing we'd ask is that you know, if you if you'd care to take a few moments and review these courts. It's always good for the author. It's good for whether it's me or one of our other
fine authors at Wall Blue Press. But anyway, so it just follow Dan's instructions and we'll give these he'll he'll give these away to his listeners.
Yes, I want to stress that as well too, is that I had mentioned that I was remiss and not mentioning that too except to a couple of the people. The winners that those that do win and do enjoy the book and do enjoy the program. One of the greatest things for authors is to have a real honest and review from somebody that loved the audiobook or the
ebook or the paperback version of the book. That's very very important for other people, and it's really what other people do to make sometimes make their decision is the careful description and the reaction that they have to the book itself. So I I want to thank you very much for Steve, for those gifts, and for those people that are going to call in. It's the first ten people that contact me at Dan dot Zupanski zup a
n sky dot com. But this time for this contest, I would like people the first ten people to say Hello Dan, and that's part of the way you're going to get that prize. So the first ten people that email personally to Dan dot Supanski at gmail dot com. That's Dan Dotzepanski at gmail dot com, Hello Dan, and those ten people will be the winners of the ten audiobooks that were given to us by Wild Blue Press.
Steve Jackson. Thank you very much for those gifts, Steve, and thank you very much for this interview and coming on and talking about this great book, smooth talker. Thank you very much, Steve.
Like I said, it's a great pleasure.
Dan. Well, thank you very much, and be sure that we'll be hearing from you in the near future. For those that might want to contact you or get more information, maybe you can give us some if you do Facebook or Twitter or give us the weld Blue Press contact information.
Well, I'm certainly on Facebook as Steve Jackson, and also through wild Blue Press dot com. It's wild Blue pres or one word dot com where you can find my books. You can find we have another fourteen authors these days, producing some great true crime crime thrillers, even a few romances and mysteries and that sort of thing too. But www dot Wildbluepress dot com and you can find myself for any of our other authors.
Well, thank you very much, Steve. You have a great evening and talk to you again in the future.
All right, Thank you, Dan, Bye bye, Thank
You, bye bye.