SERIAL KILLER QUARTERLY-Lee Mellor

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Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Kim Creswell turns the stomach with her unbelievable account of the atrocities committed by Fred and Rosemary West. Carol Ann Davis looks at one of the greatest abuses of police power in English history, the entrapment of Colin Stagg for the nineteen ninety two ripper

style murder of blonde beauty Rachel Nickel on Wimbledon Callman. Meanwhile, the real killer, Robert Knapper, was already confined to broad Muir Asylum for the nineteen ninety three of vis serration murder of Samantha Bisit and the rape and deadly suffocation

of her infant daughter. To top it all off, Edgar Award winning author Burl Bear makes his Serial Killer Quarterly debut, lending his highly original voice to an intriguing re examination of the murders ascribed to Yorkshire ripper Peter Sutcliffe and the phenomena of homicidal fame. Robert J. Houshelsky, Aaron Elliott and Kim Cresswell also look at three comparably notorious historical London slayers in their pieces on Creepy Old John Christi, Acid Bath Vampire John jor Hate, George Hay and Jack

the Ripper suspect and bride poisoner George Smith. The subject of our this evening's episode is serial Killer Quarterly with my special guests, journalist and author and publisher Lee Miller. Welcome back to program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview, Lee Miller.

it seems kind of untenable in the modern age. I'd always been brought up and told that I had, you know, great ability with writing, and so I just thought, you know, as a little kid, hey, you know, this is going to be my future doing this. And it's not that I've been unsuccessful in it. I've had two books published and they're on the shelves of chapters right now. But the returns that you get from it, as you probably know, Dan,

they're just so low. So I started to I started to As I was trying to advertise my book online, I was meeting up with other people who were doing this self publishing and doing ebooks, and I'd always stayed away from this ebook thing. To me, books were like a precious thing that I wanted to hold. I was I'm sick of looking at a screen. I like the fibrius feel of a book in my hand, So it

always sort of just ignored that part of it. What happened is I got involved in another project, which, for reasons I won't go into it didn't pan out, where I was going to be part of an ebook anthology, and through that I met all these people who were I found out that were doing really a lot better than myself selling e books and on the topic of

true crime, that is. And so I started to think, well, wouldn't it be cool if I could put out this, you know, a magazine, because people are doing e books, but I'm not seeing e magazines, and I would love it if there was like a high quality detective magazine type product that we could put out. Now, something was a little bit more class than the sort of pulp semi porn stuff that used to be printed back in you know, the seventies, sixties, fifties, that kind of thing.

And so I just started looking into this possibility. I told a friend about the idea. He actually writes for it, Aaron Elliott, and he said that sounds like a terrific idea. I'd be happy to finance it. And said, okay, well that's falling into place. I'll just reach out to a couple of friends because I'm a criminologist too, so I know a few people. So I first spoke with Katherine Ramsland. I said, well, what do you think about writing for this?

And Catherine Ramsland agreed, great, good start. I asked Michael Newton, yeah, he wanted in too. Okay, this is starting to really go somewhere now. And then I get Harold Scheckter and Kathy Scott and Burrough Bearer, and the next thing I know, I've got this completely fantastic publication and I've got like

the next three years planned out for it. So really this was just a little idea had germinating in my mind after seeing the whole e publishing thing and how it was going, and I was astonished by how many people wanted to participate in and the caliber of writers that we got. And so when an opportunity like that comes up, you don't go. You know, you take it.

some themes that I thought would be interesting. So Issue one was twenty first Century psychos and we looked at how serial murderers in the twenty first century and the kind of changes that we began to note in the trends in the twenty first century. Then I looked at one Partners in Pain, which is basically team killers unsolved

in North America. That's pretty self explanatory. And then Cruel Britannia, an issue on British killers, and then we did their special Christmas issue was just called Body Harvest, and that was about prolific American killers. So what I do is I start with a theme, and then I realized that I need say two to three feature lane articles. That's about seven thousand words. And so what I do is and and then after that usually about four smaller articles

thirty five hundred words. So what I do is I approached sort of our stable of authors and I say, hey, here's the issues that we've got coming up this year. Here's some potential stories for them. You can always pick your own if you know of another case, and you know, gladly publish that too. But you know, here's some suggestions, and people are the authors are pretty eager to swoop up those cases and to write about them. So that's sort of how the process works.

to me. So yeah, I'm changing it. But generally some authors I have to addit more than others, but I always get something that's fundamentally good from them. The process moves too quickly for me to really ask for their permission to change up what they've done. But then again, it's always cosmetic the editing process. I don't change ideas, and in fact that that's one. The one thing I'll say that I'm so proud of about this magazine and that I love is that it's almost like a conduit

for free expression. That is almost the ethos of Grinning Man Breast as a company. It's like, you can tell it however you want to, as long as it's good. So as someone who's read the magazine, you'll will have noticed the tone of say Burl Bearers article on Peter Sutcliffe is much different than say Catherine Ramslin's tone in the Ian Brady and Myra Hinley one. But that it's the allowing of people to use their own voices to look at this topic, this phenomena of serial murder from

just as many angles as possible. You know, I like to think if it is just kind of free speech.

I wanted to also ask you, there's a lot of type of murder stories and just like this program, which is the most shocking killers in true crime history, what is essentially the tone more so the tone of the stories that you do pick.

I mean, good writing is going to horrify people. But there is say, in the second issue that we did Partners in Pain. For some reason, I found that there is a lot of a lot of these killers that kill in groups tend to be sexual say this, like the torture element really comes out. And when I initially had the authors select the stories that they wanted to do for that, I took a look at the list and I went, this is too much, like it's too

much of the same thing. It's just torture, torture, torture, torture, torture. And so I actually wrote to a couple of them, and the authors are all very cool too with my editorial choices, and I want to thank them all for that. While I have this podium and I wrote to a couple of them. I said, look, would you mind if we shifted that story over to another issue, because I've just got way too much torture in this one. You know,

Let's do something else. Let's do someone who kills in an act focused way for money, to switch things up a bit, and let's do a necrophilia case. And so I'd say that what we try to avoid is going for the same kinds of crimes. Yeah, that's that's so. Even though the issue will have an overall theme such as twenty first century psychos or Unsolved in North America or Cruel Britannia, within those issues you will find a

whole myriad of different types of serial killers. Really, the criteria is, you know a serial killer that fits into that overall theme of the issue. Right.

read like I have a lot of these stories. I thought I had read the definitive story on this, and to my great surprise and interest, I found incredible information that I hadn't read before, which is always fascinating to a guy like me thinks he's read at all. So tell us a little bit about cruel Britannia and what you found. And before we talk about your Jack the Ripper tour in London, So tell us about cruel Britannia. Why you felt it was important to talk about crimes

in Great Britain. So tell us about that.

a big deal in North America. But those were sort of stories that were They became part of my lexicon, and so I knew there was a lot of really incredible serial killer stories coming from the British Isles, and I wanted to tell those so, and also there's this true crime in the UK and it's just there's such a market for it. It's like there's almost like murder obsessed over there, even the fictional program that programs that come out almost and definitely have something to do with

homicide a lot of the time. So between those two factors, I thought, yeah, let's do a British issue. Plus we got to admit that title is pretty cool, right, Cruel Britannia. So between all those factors I was I was like, yeah, let's do up one of these, and being kind of a walking serial killer encyclopedia, I just went to the authors and I said, hey, look, here's all these cool cases. Take your pick.

When you look back at those old true detective magazines, they're basically women scantily clad with fearful looks on their faces being pushed into a trunk by a dominant male, which in itself is I don't know, I'm not really big on censorship, but it's certainly I don't think it's not something I think it's good, especially when children are reading it. And unfortunately, as we know, there are a

lot of serial killers. Their first introduction to females, to sexuality and scantily clad or semi nude female form or sexualized female was in this context through these detective magazines. And the last thing I wanted to be doing with this magazine is creating a whole new generation of Ted Bundy's. At the same time, you don't want to make something that's like an act journal, just something boring that doesn't

that doesn't convey the horror. So what I said to the William Cook who does the covers, and to Northbound Creations, who are the graphic designers. I said, I want to go for a tone here which implies things more and is not so much sexual as it is eerie and horrific. And I think if you, if you, if your listeners check out the covers around magazines, they'll probably see what we've accomplished in that regard.

anybody to label murder, porn or anything that would be considered tasteless. This is I think I'm a very in agreement with you. This is very classy and some really profound photographs in this that are included. So now let's also talk about let's talk about the actual characters that are in Cruel Britannia itself and some characters I've never read about. And Arion Elliott writes about George John George. Now am I mispronouncing this is? Is it Hay? Or Hey?

pcl R on a pathological liar. And essentially, John George Hay was just a con man. And he had gone to prison a few times for cons and for fraud. And while he was doing some reading in prison, he misinterpreted corpus was delicty body of that body of evidence. He misinterpreted that to believe that if there was no body,

that murder charges could not be brought against him. So, with this in mind and lacking the inhibitions of the normal person due to his psychopathy nature, when Hey was released from jail, he began to uh lure wealthy acquaintances into this warehouse in in London on a Gloucester road. And I actually h have actually been there. It's now a it's not like a Kentucky fried chicken. And he

would lure them down there. He would kill them quickly, usually with a gun or blunt instrument, and then in uh these warehouses he would put the bodies into these acid baths and just leave them there, and over time they would be slowly rendered into a goo. And I believe I don't I'm not looking at the number in front of me right now, but I believe he killed about six people this way before he was caught. And

it was always financial. He would always trick them somehow into into signing papers over to him uh and or or getting access to their to their money, and so he would after he killed them, he would have to sustain this illusion a lot of the time that they were still alive in order to keep milking money from their relatives. So I'll just give you one example. In one case, the first murder, it was a guy, Donald Swan.

He didn't want to be drafted for the Second World War, so John George Hay said, okay, well, don't worry, I can get you out of this. We'll put you in hiding in Scotland. And then he lured him down into the salary, killed him and rendered the body to go in these acid baths. And then he pretends to Donald Swan's parents that the son is actually still alive and in hiding. And by doing this he's able to start

getting sums of money from them. So this was really a very clever, financially motivated killer, except when he finally he finally come undone, came undone, so a lot of them do. He was a bit cocky about it because he openly said to the authorities, he said, ah, yeah, I might have killed him, but there's no body, so

ha ha, you can't prove it. But what he didn't realize is that he had misinterpreted what a body of evidence means and he was convicted and all of a sudden, oh wait, I did it because I like drinking blood because I'm nuts. So that's John George Hay in a rather large nutshell for you.

Is kind of molly cuddled by his mother and sort of one of I guess we'd tend to form these narratives. I guess about what it is you know that key moment in the life that of a serial killer that sends them on the pathway to whatever it is with him. It was when he was first attempted to have sex with a girl as a teenager and he was unable to perform, and I guess this girl rather insensitively went around telling everyone about it and he and so everyone

would ridicule him about it. Can't get it up, Chris, the reggiodic things like that, and so that's really leveled his self esteem. And this is something by the way, as in the side that we often see in necrophiles, that they have very low self esteem. And so Christie ends up in the First World War where he's exposed to mustard gas and even though any kind of explosion mustard gas is going to really mess you up, he's also a hypochondriac. So he starts to talk in this

sort of whispery voice. But they determine that it's psychosomatic, that the mustard gas hasn't actually affected his ability to speak, that this is a psychosomatic thing that's going on. He eventually marries a kind of frumpy woman named Ethel and from what I guess, rather that they had virtually no sex life. They have no children, and they move into an area of London, which is which is poor people stocked on top of each other and bed bugs, just

the kind of place you wouldn't want to live. And it's here that I suppose over the years his tends up. Sexual frustrations start to come start to bubble to the surface, and while his wife is away, he he has a rather interesting m Sometimes it's prostitutes that he that he that he kills, he brings them back to his apartment and strangles them. But other times it's women that who

are in need of medical help or abortions. Christie is he uses this demeanor of of being a very timid and almost intellectual man to convince these women that he has some medical experience and that if they come back to his apartment and use this device he has where they can inhale vapors, that he can cure them of various things, you know, ranging from lung diseases to needing to have abortions. And so he pulls this trick on

them a number of women. The way he does is he lures them back to his apartment and he hooks up he puts this mask over their face which is going into I think it's called Friar's balsam some sort of inhalent, which is safe. But what they don't know is that he's also hooked it up to the gas pipe, so they go unconscious. As they're unconscious, he rapes them

because and this is an interesting paraphilia called somnophilia. He's able to perform with them when they are unconscious because he's not afraid of ridicule, and that goes back to the regiinodic experience. And then after they are unconscious, he

strangles them with a rope. And now the first few victims he just disposes of their bodies after that, but around the late fifties, he starts to just kind of he hits that part of some of the many serial killer cycles where they just kind of lose control of

their impulses, and he kills his own wife. There's no evidence of sex, but it's more just to get her out of the way, and I think he hides her under the floorboards, and with her out of the way, he's now free to do this much more often, and now he can keep the bodies too, So he starts to do this with a number of prostitutes, and eventually he moves out and somebody else moves into the apartment and they find that there's a fake wall put up and when they tear down this wall, they find the

bodies of about two to three women behind the wall, and then the man hunts on for John Christie, who goes down as one of the most notorious serial killers in British history.

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trial today, no credit card required. When you sign up at squarespace dot com, use the opera code true Murder for a ten percent discount off your first purchase. I would like to thank square Space very much for the support of this episode of True Murder. Squarespace Build it beautiful now, Lee, We we were talking about the first episode or a part of me Cruel Britannia, and we talked about John Christy and your article Skeletons in the

Alcove by Robert Jay Hasowski. Do you include this London Murder travel diary and you talk about the Jack the Ripper tour that you do with a man named John Chambers.

my PhD dissertation. As I said before, I'm a criminologist, and I was going by train to a place called Sidcup to meet with a police officer who had worked on the Colin Ireland serial murders that took place in London in nineteen ninety three, I believe, because that was an important case for my dissertation, and I figured, you know, while I'm head in that direction, I may as well

spend a night in London. I couldn't really afford to spend more than one night, so I found this kind of crappy hotel and I uh, I decided, I'm gonna make this about the magazine. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna justify this by turning it into a magazine article. So I tried to hit as many of these sites in London that were associated with notorious serial murders as possible.

So the hotel where I stayed and was very close to Gloucester Road and Gloucester Road, of course, as I mentioned before, is the site of the workshop where John George Hay had turned these people into into go using his acid bath. In fact, it's right across from the

tube station. It's a Kentucky Fried Chicken. So for the good of the magazine, I uh, the first thing I did when I got off the tube upon entering London was walked right across the street and ordered some Kentucky Fried Chicken and went down into the little basement there and ate the KFC. And then I took a photograph of the gravy so that it would make a nice juxtaposition with the article that Aaron had written about some sort of fleshy goose substance. And you know what, I

must admit, the KFC was better than I remembered. It's been a while since I had eaten it.

one knows. Everyone's just walking past it. And I'm standing there trying to get a decent photograph as cars keep blocking my way in pedestrians and everyone's looking at me like YSI photographing at KFC, And so no one really knows that these infamous murders that happened here. From there, I went to the hotel, put all my u got all my stuff settled in the hotel, and then I decided to go on this Jack the Ripper tour, which

is the complete opposite. So I ride the tube down to East Aalgate station and I'm hanging around there and I had to see this group milling around, a guy with a with a top hat on, and I go, this must be the Jack the Ripper Tour. I had called them ahead of time, and we'd done sort of a deal, like, hey, get me on the tour for free, and I'm gonna I'm gonna write about it for the magazine.

And it was, in fact, was fascinating to me was not only the number of people that that we're going on this this tour, but the fact that the one crime would be almost like invisible, where the other is almost like a part of uh it's almost like a tourist attraction, like the Tower of London. You know. That's it's interesting, Like there's why why is is one so much bigger? And I guess it's it's that that Jack the Ripper name. When you think of a serial killer,

Jack the Ripper is sort of the number one. That's the first one everyone learns about. That's the only reason I can see. Uh. So I end up going on

this tour and it's fascinating. John Chambers, the guy doing the tour, he's got a great sense of humor, a real real Cockney, but he's he's a historian too, but but the kind of historian that everyone wishes they had as history teacher in school, where he makes it entertaining and he's memorized all these facts about Victorian London, every street, every pub at the time, and we're just basically doing the walk from site to site of where all the

murders took place. And he has like a holographic projector which he projects onto the onto the walls that show you what it used to look like. And so that that was only about ten pounds, which I don't know just off the top of my head, that's maybe like fourteen Canadian dollars for like a good hour long entertaining in that it was in that it was as funny

as the topic could be and jovial. Johnny sort of brought that aspect of it out, but it was also incredibly informative and you get to it's one thing to read about Jack the Ripper, but actually walk the distances and to see like how far apart the murder sites where and in relation to each other's. It's a fascinating experience. So I would recommend that to anyone who goes to London to go on that Jack the Ripper walking to

where they have. And the best thing me, with my sort of insider magazine status, is that after it was all done, I got to go for a pint with Johnny and his friend. So we went to a public called the White Stag, sorry the White Heart, where the conversation that invariably turns to Jack the Ripper and serial murder in general, and we're sitting in there drinking our ciders,

and we only had about an hour or so. They had to be up in the morning to do another Jack the Ripper thing, and I had to be up to go see my detective and the last thing I wanted to do is go with a hangover. So we say separate way, We go our separate ways, say hey, I'll meet up with you next time I'm in London, and I certainly planned to because we had a great time. And it's only later that I realize that the White Hart Pub that he took me to was once owned or the landlord of it was a guy by the

name of George Smith. And George Smith is a Jack the Ripper suspect and confirmed serial killer who poisoned three of his wives in the early nineteen hundreds, and Kim Creswell wrote a pretty terrific article on that in the same issue Cruel Britannia. So then I was trying to make it to another part of London that same night, and I made a very in retrospect prudent decision try to try and not get another murder site in because I would have really screwed up my getting up early

in the morning to to go interview that detective. So yeah, that's it in a nutshell, much more had it written about, much more, better better in the article.

Myra Hindley. We won't give anything away. This is just too much. As you talked about. Kim Creswell talks about George Chapman Sewerin Koslowski, the Burrough poisoner, Bullish bone barber and ripper suspect poisons three wives in the turn of the century England. You also have which I thought, you know because I just love Burl Bear is Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper or Yorkshire ripoff by Burl Bear, and you talk about Bradford Trucker, Peter Sutcliffe, England's most notorious

serial killer. Is he really responsible for thirteen deaths attributed to him or is he a nobody among nobodies? So I won't give anything away because I think this is just an example how great and interesting and unique these articles really are in this magazine. But just tell us a little bit for those that don't know the controversy that is examined in this Peter Sutcliffe article. Yorkshire Ripper.

and he has quite a dedicated following. Now there's some people that even in the in the police force that have come out and said, yes, he has a he has a point here. This is the we always knew that Peter Sutcliffe hadn't done all these killings, and you know he should be reinvest reinvestigated. And then there's the other, the other side of it, which is just going, well,

this is a conspiracy theory. A lot of it hinges on the fact that the DNA found on I believe one of one or more of the suspects was different than Suckcliffe's reported blood type. The problem is getting information on what Sutcliffe's actual blood type is like now and in being able to independently verify that. So Burrow tackles

a lot of that. He doesn't naturally write a lot about the murders themselves, And my take on it was that I looked at them, I looked at o'garra's arguments, and I looked at the timeline of the murders, and the first murder, according to Ogira's website, would have been committed by Sutcliffe, and this would have involved mutilation. That's is why they call him the Yorkshire Ripper, just like Jack the Ripper, Rostov Ripper, Andrea Chikatilo whatever, they're those

guys that like to mutilate. And so I noticed that this, this first murder had involved some mutilation, and so if the next one was committed by this guy William Tracy and also involved mutilation, to me, it seems more like Tracy was ripping off Sutcliffe. But then again I go, well, how did this is considering it's only the second murder.

How did Tracy know about the mutilation and the specific like the specifics of the mutilation that you know, where it occurred, the manner in which it occurred in order

to copy Sutcliffe. And so I became skeptical. And I would say, even though I haven't done anywhere near the depth of research that Nolo Geret has done into it, based just on that opposers I had as a criminologist, I concluded that probably maybe Peter Sillcliffe hadn't done all the murders, but I certainly didn't think that he was copying William Tracy. Uh And and I didn't see this proof that William Tracy had committed any of the murders. Now, this guy William Tracy claimed to have done it and

bragged about it. But you know, we all know pathological liars, and we all know people that do false confessions. So but it is, Hey, it's still a very interesting argument and it's worth looking at, and Burl does a good

job of it. One of the one of the things with that article that was the most challenging actually was is Burrell's tone is so as I think he used the word irreverent to use that word sure, sure you can't, okay, And yeah, and it's it's like, okay, well, we're writing about we're writing murders here, and this is uh, this is on Uh, this has got much more of a sense of humor and a lightness about it than most

of the other articles that we've published. And then I so I had to go back and think about what really is the ethos of this brand of of you know, grinny Man Press, the publisher, and and what is this magazine about? And and and I came back to that tenant that I had that if it is a good article, I don't care in what voice it's written from or what moral standpoint it's written from. I'm going to publish

it because I want to. I want the readers and and and myself and and everyone who reads our magazine to see these issues from various perspectives, and so Burl's article on Sutcliffe was was from a totally different perspective, and and I think the magazine becomes a lot more. I think the magazine benefits from that because you're not reading the same tone all the time. You know, things

are broken up. It's like a radio station. You don't want to keep hearing songs in the key of G eight times in a row, right, You want to you want some variations. So I think ultimately it's a good idea to do that, and so that's what we do. I got a real weird one coming up written by Peter Vronsky for our next issue, where I was faced with a similar challenge, and I'm like, I'm going to publish it.

evident in serial killers. So how much is true and how much is self aggrandization, no one quite knows. And then just the phenomena of the media itself, which are again have their own motivation and sometimes that is synonymous with the prosecution and the police, and sometimes it isn't. So he I think he explores all that and puts and factors that all into the story as well. And

like I say, Irreverend, it's just that's Burl Bears. Nobody else can have strike that balance between that sarcasm for those things I think which our need to be criticized. And that's why I laugh. And just really the strict academia that this guy puts into it, and it seems very effortless in his work.

of it. But as you said, Burrell is really looking at the aspects of media in it and and that's terrific there the more we look at these from different viewpoints, because it's it's about serial killers, but it doesn't need to be just through one lens. You know, there's many ways you could write the Peter Sutcliffe case, eight different ways, you know, from a different standpoints. So yeah, and I think all the all of our articles have a little bit of something different to them.

Then you have just a top it all off. If that isn't another if you have a preview of the next issue, which is Fatal Fetishists and that and so then you do a preview about Jeffrey Dahmer in an article called The Tenant with with Hoshelski again penning that or doing that article. So we we also have That's just one of the issues. And the next one you have is in the spring edition. So we really can't go through all of this. But really this one's called

Partners in Pain, And you mentioned this before. This is uh you have William Burke and William Hare Victorian serial Killers, great stuff. You have Dean Coral, Elmer, Henley David Brooks, The Game of Boys with doctor Catherine Ramslin again, and you had John Duffy and David Melkay Unique and Evil Bond with Carol Anne Davis. And you include stories on Leonard Lake, Charles Ing, Paul Bernard One, Karla Hamalka, Doug Clark and Carol Bundy, Helen Golay and Olga Rudis again

another one another one for me. So you and so how many episodes? How many issues have you put out so far? And tell us a little bit about the latest issue.

what what we got coming next? Okay, Well, Fatal Fetishists because Peter Vronsky got so passionately into his article on Richard Cottingham, which was supposed to be seven thousand words, he ended up giving me twelve thousand. Normally I'd say, whoa, this is you know too much, This has got to go. But it was an amazing article, and I decided I've

got to keep it. At the same time, that was going to bloat the magazine to just a huge size and be rough on the graphic designers, rough on me as an editor, and we'd just be giving out way too much content compared to our other magazines. So Fatal Fetishists ended up getting split in two as a result

of that. So our next two issues are Fatal Fetishist one and Fatal Fetishist two, and the theme of both of these issues are individuals serial killers that have specific paraphilias and or fetishes, and so each case represents a different one. For instance, I did an article on just a simple pedophile serial killer named Ronald Jebson. We've got one on Dayton Leroy Rogers who's a foot fetishist. And we've got we've got ones on Stephen Griffiths, a cannibal,

Richard Cottingham, that was Peter's Oracle, a sexual sadist. So that's what we've got coming up. We're going to start exploring different fetishes and paraphilias in the next two issues.

He did the eighteen eighty five onsolved murders of servant girls in Austin, Texas, did a terrific job on it, and the cool thing about that is I had my friend and colleague Kenneth Mains, who works for the American in asalk I having drawn a blank on the acronym right now, sorry again, but we had him come in and he looked at that case and he looked at the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury run the article written by Michael Newton, and we included a sub article in there

by Ken where he did criminal profiles on both of those cases based on the articles. So that was pretty cool. I wrote a lot of content for that one, and I did one on the Zodiac Killer, which is almost impossible to the seven thousand words just because the letters are so alone. So I kind of let the primary source materials tell themselves. The letters tell us a lot about that. And then in one instance, I actually pumped myself into the head of the Zodiac and wrote from

his point of view during one of the murders. So, going back to that whole idea of writing from different perspectives, I wanted to really play with that in that particular article and to show who I thought he was in that moment during that murder. I also wrote an article for that one on a series of child murders in Montreal that remain unsolved, and that was actually that was actually an article I couldn't fit into my book Cold

North Killers. I had to take it out, and so I just had it waiting in the wings, and I put it in there. And that's a really fascinating case. I mean, if you're a Canadian, you definitely want to look at that one, because recently there's been an announcement that originally I think that they believe there was about four or five victims, and now they're looking at the possibility that there may be as many as nine involved in that case. Kim Creswell wrote about the Long Island

serial killer. I would say that's probably in the twenty first century, that's like the unsolved serial murder case. Would you agree with me there, Dan, that's the one that sort of everyone remembers and knows and in the twenty first century that they styled and figured out.

almost a plot in almost everything. But I would think that just some of the developments, and some of the killers, the one off kind of killers, and the more the trend towards the three killers and the you know, the people that kill their entire family is just I think I think that there's less I don't know if there's interest, but there's less attention on serial killers just at this moment,

uh and when. But we're going back and finding out in history about these notorious serial killers that time seems to have almost forgot. And then thanks to incredible magazines like yours, you're bringing these stories back to life. And these pay you know stories today pale in comparison to some of these you know, incredible true crime stories in history.

ones that haven't made international headlines. And so we're going to continue to do that with the magazine, although this year we are going to put in some of the more well known names. I felt like the year one was a bit of a tease, and now we've got to we've got to pay off a bit, almost like a story arc. But then we're still going to put in those fringe cases too.

stories but just very very concise. It's amazing how much information these incredible authors pack into a short space, you know, basically. But I think that when you do do the cases like Rosemary Fred and Rosemary West, the author is adding something that is unique, either the perspective, the discussion, or something unique a unique aspect of the crime itself that

is now explored in this magazine. So this is incredibly unique in terms of everything that you're reading is either surprising, shocking, or a brand new revelation for somebody, even as you know, I thought as experiences myself. So this is just a fantastic discovery for me, and I hope I'm sure the audience when they discover this will think the same. Lee.

I want to thank you very much for this interview, and again let us know where people can contact you and tell us about your website again and if people want to contact you through Facebook or Twitter or whatever, let us know how they can do that.

our Facebook page. Just search for serial Killer Quarterly. Essentially, when you get to the serial Killer Quarterly page, the contest is pinned on the top, and this is what it is. This is a tremendous deal. So if you win, if you enter this contest and win, you will win. Okay,

ready for this. You're going to get signed copies of body Count by a Burl Bearer, assigned copy of my book Rampage, assigned copy of Doctors Who Kills, Sadistic Killers and Youthful Prey by Carol Anne Davis, Assigned hardcover copy of Harold Checkter's novel on HH Holmes. You're going to get assigned copy of karenco see is fiction novel Kidnapped by the Cartel. You're going to get a grinny Man Press T shirt, and you're going to get a copy

of Kevin M. Sullivan's new ebook on Richard Chase. So this is definitely a contest that you want to enter.

couldn't help myself. I have to dig in and start reading and some incredible stories, and it's what's really interesting, and so I think it's very flattering, is that a Canadian in America attracting all these basically American well, I mean there are some Canadians, but basically the elite of American true crime is on board with your Serial Killer Quarterly. And it must be based on the respect that they have for you as a criminologist and author and now as a publisher.