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You are now listening to true Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer.
The Nightstalker BTK.
Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Good Evening. Almost one third of Russian serial killers have committed cannibalism during their murder spree, but not as much is known about their crimes outside of the Federation. This book follows the stories of thirteen cannibals from the Motherland, Alexander Spetziatseb, the Siberian Ripper, Dimitri and and Italia Bakshib Nicole Metal Fang Jumagolev. All these killers were characterized by the same fetish, the erotic desire to consume the flesh
of a person cursed by an uncontrollable hunger. They have committed some of the worst atrocities in the history of true crime, illustrated with more than two hundred and fifty photographs onearthed from the confidential files of the Kremlin's Ministry of Internal Affairs. Russian cannibals addicted to human flesh is a brutal encyclopedia of the men and women who have broken the ultimate taboo. The book they were featuring this evening is Russian Cannibals Addicted to Human Flesh with my
special guests, journalists and author Niko Kloe. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. Niko Kloe, thanks for them, Thank you so much, and congratulations on this latest of your books, Russian Cannibals.
Thank you.
Let's get right to the genesis of this book. You say right in the introduction that Russian serial killers are often associated with stories of cannibalism. When you started to do research on Russian serial killers for your first book, Russian serial Killers, what did you quickly realize exactly?
I quickly realized that about one third of hundred killers that I studied so far have at one point or another during the crimes free they have tasted human flesh, and it became obvious to me that they needed a volume on their own. And when I started to write this volume, I quickly realized also that it needed several volumes because I really wanted to delve deep inside the stories, because those stories were fascinating. It's extremely hard to find
info on those cases. You have to read a lot of Russia newspapers and articles, only a basic inphoses available in the West, and there are cases that are practically not covered at all. There are cases that date back from the Soviet era before the nineties, but there are also cases that happened during the nineties and the early two thousands. Some of them were more or less covered in the West, but most of them were kept extremely local, even though they're extremely fascinating.
You talk about the Bolshevik Revolution in nineteen seventeen, and then you talk about the starvation in the Ukraine later and write about the meat markets that were photographs of the meat markets that were in the Soviet Union at that time. Tell us a little bit about though, that most of the cases in this book from what era? Are these featured serial killer cannibals? Where are they from what era?
So it is true, yes, that there is a strong history in the twentieth century of starvation and stories of cannibialism in Russia. For example, during the blockage of Leningrad during World War Two, there were thousands of cases of cannibalism recorded during the year during which the blockage took place. This was because of course, of the lack of food and starvation, and there was several episodes of hunger and famine during after the Soviet Revolution. And of course cannibalism
was also practiced in the gulags by Russian prisoners. Yes, there is for example, a famous anecdote told by this famous Russian writer so Jenny Skin about the gulag and the prisoners when they tried to escape, they always kept a third prisoner or another prisoner with them, usually a political prisoner, and called him a cow because they would actually hat that person on their way to freedom. So we yes, cannibalism was a reality, harsh reality during the
twentieth century. But when it comes to serial killing and those kinds of cases where cannibalism was committed by criminals and serial offenders, most of the time it was not committed because of hunger or practical reasons. It was just a sexual fetish that was developed by those killers, like what happened with Jeffrey Dahmer in the United States or Denis Nelson in the UK. Those killers wanted to experience this fetish that they had developed for a very long time.
And when I wrote about those those serial killers in my first book. I realized that some of the killers that I studied at this tish which is called veraurphilia. It means the sexual attraction to the act of eating human flesh right, and the case is that I discussed in this book. Most of the cases happen in the nineteen nineties or the early two thousands, so it's not during World War two or even after.
Now we're going to have you read the contents to the thirteen cannibal killers that are featured. Just before we start, one major name is missing. You call the godfather of human flesh eaters, and that's say Andre Chikatilo. Why is he not included? Tell us why not?
When I started to compare all those names and all those stories, I quickly realized that chikatill could overshadow them. And the case is so complex and so many things have been written about him. So I want you to focus on this first world review on killers that are
practically unknown in the West. It made more sense to me, and I will talk about Tikatilu in the sequel to this book, and this book is more focused on other bigs like the bag sheees for example, it's this couple of cannibals who live in a flash no dark area and they were actually arrested because workers found one of the mobile phones on the street and they found pictures that they took over their victim. So this is a
story that was covered in the West Sum. I will go back to that story a little bit later because it's a very interesting story. Yes, but let me tell you the names of all those different kills that I covered. I first start with Moscow, the Moscow region with a golofkin also called fisher by the Soviet press at the time. He used to kill his victims at the same time that and if I could compare his case to an American case, that would be definitely be John Wayne Gacy.
He was targeting young teenagers. He had some kind of dungeon under his garage where he kept his victim. It's an extremely brutal case, very hard case to cover, and it definitely can be compared to gays in terms of AMMO and different things surrounding the case. Then I cover several killers that operated in the Saint Petersburg region. Saint Petersburg is known in Russia for having lots of serial killers. It's like the Russian capital of serial killers. And for
this book specifically, I have for four different cases. I have Vasili Smirnov also known as the Necromancer, ill Shat Kuzikov, also known as the cook or I'll let you imagine what kind of meat he was cooking. Then there's Edward Shemyakov, the resort maniacts and Tamara sam Sonova the Granny Ripper, which whose case was also a bit covered by the press, the Western press through the next story I mentioned it
heard here is the Bakshis, the Krasnodar Cannibals. Then we go to the Volga region with the Vladimir Nikolajev the Auger and Alexander Bishkov also known as the predate predatorp. Then we go to Siberia with the Alexander's Steph the Siberian Ripper, the gash back Ron Bahyav, the Evo against Ki Ripper. Then we go to Ukraine with the Kustyikov's the Father and some cannibals. And the last region we visit is Kazakhstan, a former Soviet province which is now
an independent republic. And Kazakhstan was the home of Nikolai Rimaga, Yev Metal Fang and the cannibal cooks of an extremely bizarre case involving nurses who killed sex workers and aid them.
Let's get to Alexander Specia, this Siberian rapper. Yes, let's talk about this story.
So scy is very rutal case from Siberia. The number of his victims is unknown, but he was officially convicted of nineteen murders in nineteen ninety six. He lived in what people call in Russia comic block a comic blog. It's one of those very ugly, huge buildings with this typical Russian architecture. He lived on the top floor with his mother and sister, and he was in and out of psychiatric hospitals because he was like many other cannibals
in Russia. He was declared insane for several other offenses, and in the nineties he began to lure several victims, usually teenagers, to his apartment. And the crazy thing is that it is his own mother who actually helped him lure the victims back to his apartment. That's the crazy part about this story. She did not actively help him kill the victims, but she did cook several meals using the flesh, and this is a fact that was certified by the police when they covered the case. It's an
extremely brutal case. He would usually keep his victims alive for a few days, trapped inside the apartment. It's very reminiscent of this case in the US that inspired Silence of the Lambs Jerry Einick. Yeah, except he didn't have a pitway he would keep his victims, but they were kept in his bedroom. He would change them to his
radiator and they would torture them for days. Rape was involved, and when one of them died, he would cut her up or made the other victims cut her up, yes, and would cook her, feed the remains to his dog, and then feed the other victims with the meat, and also the mills himself. So this case, yes, it's insanely brutal. He was arrested after three young patients from a local hospital disappeared. One of them was still found alive inside
his apartment. The other two were found dismembered. One of the torsos was even found in his pastub and she didn't live long. She only lived like three or four days after being rescued, but she was able to give a chilling account which is in the book on her last days in this apartment of the help and all the torments that she suffered with a fellow friends at the ends of a spectista. It's an extremely green case. One of the most brutal I covered in the book.
One of the most insane aspects of the case was that this man was actually helped by his mother who actually helped him lure the victims inside the apartment. Chi only spent about ten years in prison and is a free woman now. Fancy Tevy is locked up in an
insane asyland somewhere in Russia. It's an interesting fact that saying Russia, most of those cases the killers I often are often declared mentally unfit for trial and they are sent to a psychiatric unique, usually to spend the rest of their life.
This book is filled with antidotes which are shocking in the leniency and the treatment of these incredible killers that almost have no match anywhere in history. You talk about compulsory treatment for Spetsievs before he was again sentenced to compulsory treatment once these crimes were revealed. Tell us about this compulsory treatment and sort of just the attitude of the Russians in terms of punishment in the courts for these killers.
Well, he actually had killed one of his your friends before committing this Christ free and he spent only a few years in a hospital because he was declared skis of Frederic by your psychiatricst and after just a few years they thought that he was fit for society and he was released under supervision. But it seems that the supervision was not strong enough because he actually killed just
a few months after being released. And it's not the first time that the cannibal actually was released by a psychiatric from a psychiatric unit after committing a series of murders. And we can talk about the case of Nikolai Jumaghayev from Kazakhstan, which is an extraordinary case because it seems so incredible for the Western mind. But this is a man who killed. We first killed because he thought that he was purifying society by killing loose women Western women.
So this man was a Kazakh, he was raised as a Muslim, and as a Muslim he thought that other Russian women, especially Russian women from the north and the northwest of the country, were not pure and had very loose morals, so he decided to kill them to dig them a lesson, and he had read in a book that by drinking that blood he would gain some extra supernatural power, and that's what he did during his first murder.
He drank the blood from his first victim and cut off some of the body parts and cooked them and ate the meat. After that very first murder that happened in the late seventies, he developed what he described as some kind of addiction to human meat. That's also very interesting because you never really read about that when you
read about cannibal cases. It's one of the only cases the killer describes being addicted to the taste of human me And he also developed those strange believes about being invested by a supernatural power and by celebrating some kind of ritual sacrifice by killing those women. He killed five or six women in the seventies and early eighties and was arrested. He was sent to prison, and he spent seven years in in cur supervision before being transferred to
another part of the country. During that transferring, he escaped and he went close for several years when he killed again and he was arrested, turned back to the psychiatric Unich, and as incredible as it sounds, he was released. Incredible only is fifteen years in and out of psychiatric union. Even though he had it was proven that he had felt like something like seven or eight women before. He just could not adjust to normal life. He tried to
go back to his hometown. People of course try to rednch him when he tried to come back to his hometown, so he had to escape. He lived in the mountains for a while and then he was arrested again the suspicion of another murder, and to this day he still
is locked up in a psychiatric unique in Kazakhstan. But what's interesting about this man about Nicolai and Jumagae is one of the few canibals that was arrested that gave dozens and dozens of interviews to the press, not only the Russian press, but also Western press, and during the nineties you would often see true crime magazines with his
confessions with interviews. People would come from all over the world to Kazakhstan to interview him, and he would give interviews just asking for cigarettes or a few treats and he would Telly's life story. So you can even find TV interviews with it's really interesting, really interesting case.
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Now getting back to some of the people featured, you had mentioned Dimitri and the Itali Natalia Backsheef, the Krasnodor Cannibals aka the Family of Cannibals in twenty seventeen. You include this story because you only have one and kill, but the headlines are important. In this story, you talk about and write about the difference in the coverage in Western newspapers and what you had to say about that.
So yes, in September twenty seventeen, there was a few headlines in the press around the world saying things like cannibal couple and mid to eating up to thirty people in southwest Russia, or details about Russian cannibal couple confessed to murdering and eating thirty people and posing for selfies with the body parts. So people were under the impression that there was this incredible case in Russia involving a couple of cannibals who had been killing for up to
thirty years and taking selfies. So when I did some research on the case, I started with the info that was available in the West, but it didn't match up to what I was reading when I was reading Russian newspapers, especially the local newspapers of Krassanda, who covered the case
and the trials, because there were several trials. So yes, there were the case starting in twenty seventeen because construction workers from the mobile phone on the street and when they looked through the gallery of the picture gallery, they found photos of a that identified man with a human hand inside his mouth and he was playing with body parts. So of course they brought the front to the police. They quickly found the owner of the phone and they
raided the apartment of the owner. When they searched the apartment, they actually found photos of people that seemed to have been the victims of this couple. The apartment belonged to a married couple. The back sheets Dimitry and Natalia back sheet, so of course, and they found, of course remains, human remains, and some of the remains were stuffed inside glass jars. So of course, the logical conclusion was that it was
the case involving canibalism. And since there were so many different pictures of body parts and people seemed to be victims inside the apartment, rumors spread and those photos were leaked in the media, so you could find them easily on the internet. So there essentially photos of this man Dimitry backsheve with this hand in his mouth and holding body parts, and photos of the contents.
Of the fridge.
And that was in the first days of the case, before it even went to court. Under custody, the only confessed to one murder, and it was the murder of a woman that had met one week before. It was they had drunk Wader and Natalie Backshave that she tried to have intercourse this woman in her husband, and this is why she told she ordered him. She ordered her husband to kill her, and when he killed her, according to her, he was curious about teaching her flesh. That's
what she said. This was debunked during the trial that took place a few months before. After they never found any trace of any other victim except this one victim. And of course there were pictures. The contents of jazz were analyzed and it was proven that they belonged to that victim. But other than that, there was no proof that cannibalism was involved, and Dimitary Bakshief denied everything. He said that he never actually tried to read the flesh.
He just played with body parts because he thought it was parney, according to him, and he was a bit deranged, of course, but there was no proof. But still the European and American made yea telling that story of a canibal couple that had killed up to thirty people. This was never actually proven. Dmitry Bakshiev died in prison just one year after because he was very ill. He was treated for diabetes and there was a problem in the facility where he was locked up. They couldn't give him
his meditation, so he died. Natalia Bakshiev was sentenced to a few years of prison, but she was not sentenced for the murder. She was not actually convicted of the murder, so she got a lesser sentence, and his story was The story of cannibalism was largely debunked by local press, but I still chose to include it in the book because I thought it was interesting to tell one story from the two perspectives and how legend is created from one.
He go once in the fact that's taken out of context by the press, and the legend of the Prosnadar cannibalist is very strong. If you go to true crime forums and you're talking about the case, people will tell you, oh, yeah, they kill thirty people. This was the This never happened. They only killed one person, and the cannibalism wasn't even proved. But still I found it very interesting to cover the
case just to show the difference in perspective. But the other cweve cases that I cover are definitely cannibal cases, though those were proven.
You talk quite a bit about the presence and these people are sentenced to and you write them as strict regime colonies. And one of the ones that's featured with a couple of these guys or two or three of these killers, is the notorious Black Dolphin prison. All of these people get this compulsory treatment in a hospital, but also this strict regime colony. As you do when you write in this book, can you comment about some of the prisons and the treatment and some antidotes about those prisons.
There's five or six prisons like that in Russians. Most of them are the names of animals, like there is the black Owl and of course the black dolphin. The Black Dolphin has been the subject of several documentaries, very interesting documentaries. It is the home of several serial cullous Russian serial killows and cannibals, and of course some of the people that are included in the book ended up in that prison. Black Dolphin has a very bad reputation
among Russian prisoners. It is the end of the road for many of them. It is the most brutal prison in the Russian system. Prisoners spent tween t three hours a day in their cell. They do not have the right to sit on their bank, so they still up most of the time or they sit on a chair. They do not have access to anything, They cannot treat,
they cannot watch TV. Of course, they are working workshops about twelve hours a day and the only time that they have in a reckyard is one hour a day to stretch the legs, but it's just the space of
two cells, so they can't really stretch their legs. It is often described as a living hell by prisoners, and they are very powerful photos that were taken there showing the prisoners bending face down when they leave their cell because they have to be disoriented when they move from one part of the prison to another right so they are always followed by three or four gods. There are also huge dogs that are trained to bark at them if the defintion eye. So yes, it's a very very
gream and breiku place where to enjoy your life. It's also one of the few prisons where you never leave actually the prison, except if you confess to other crimes. And this is what happened with one of the cannibals that I mentioned in the book. He had to confess to other crimes so he could leave the prison and be transferred to another prison in another part of the country so we could show the locations where he had
buried the victims. After serving about ten years in Black Dolphins, so he confessed to other crimes knowing that he would be sentenced for that, just to have a break from that prison.
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or add Symbiotic Plus to your subscription. Today, let's talk about another incredible cannibal killer, Alexander Bishkov aka the Predator. How are the Bolinski cannibal with nine kills reigning from two thousand and nine to twenty twelve, tell us about this that it all started September seventeen, two thousand and nine.
But it's he is very young compared to the other killers, including the book. He started to kill in his early twenties. He kept a diary of these crimes. Way we describe how we killed them, how he would cut thoughts from them. He was obsessed with the movie Predator, so he got his nickname from that movie. And the crimes happened in the very his small town in rural Russia, he would target middle aged men, usually alcoholics or transience people who
would not raise the attention of the police. And his first crime was actually someone he knew. It was someone who shared a room with his own mother. So he got away with his first crime, and when he found out that he was not even a suspect for that crime, he continued his crime spree. He never really gave a reason why he committed those crimes except that he was fascinated by murder. He was obsessed with murder, was obsessed
with violent movies. When the police readed his home, they found lots of the VHS tapes of haw and violent movies. And he saw himself as some kind of hunter that would hunt people in his hometown and kill them and eat them. What's interesting about this, As I told you, this criminal was extremely young. He was about twenty five when he was arrested. And it was similar to Richard Rumirez in the US. He had a lots of groupies
when he was arrested. Lots of women started to write to him when he was in prison.
Wow.
And he actually married an American citizen, an American woman from Nevada who actually moved to Russia marry him, So this is an extremely unique in the history of a Russian series killers.
It's interesting you write that he connects these murders and this cannibalism and there is somebody that takes the credit. It's not an unusual story, but in this story it leads to an incredible twist. Somebody takes the credit for it, somebody mentally ill. How does this affect this case and the killings?
So the police was suspecting a local. It was a very large guy with have had the history of mental problems, and he easily confessed to the murders. So he was sent to a psychiatric unit for this. Some people say that he was beaten during the custody, so the confessions
were forced out of him, so to speak. But the thing is, when he was arrested, the killing's pre continued, and in his diary, Bishkov actually said that he didn't like the fact that this man was took to blame for the crimes because it did not, according to him, deserve the attention, and only him deserved the attention that
those crimes he deserved, so he was extremely narcissistic. But yes, even after Bishop was arrested, this individual remained in psychiatric hospital for quite a while, even though the real suspect was arrested.
What was Alexander Bitchkiv's culinary preference in terms of body parts and what did he say in that regard In his memoir.
Beechkoff was obsessed with the movie Hannibal with Anthony Hopkins, was obsessed with the character of Hannibal. If you remember from the movie Hannibal Rising, he's sourced to be of Russian origin. Well, it's not exactly Russians from Lithuania, I think Lithuania. Yeah, but for most people Hannibal the origins of Annibal that he is Russian, and Bichkov was proud
of this heritage. I think after the sixth murder, he cut out hit the heart of his victim and he put it in a bag and he brought it to an empty house and he boiled it and he ate it, and he said that he tasted like pork. So after that he tried different recipes on other victims. He boiled several body parts. He fried them in a frying pan with vegetaboil, oil and salt and pepper, lemon and vodka. So you can see that he was influenced not only by horror movies, but he says that he was influenced
by the study of practices of Mayan tribes. The Mayans sometimes would eat the heart of the victims when they harvested prisoners during the wars, and they would sacrifice them on top of the pyramids. Birschkoff was fascinated by that fact, and by eating the heart of what he considered as his enemies, he would get their strength and get their life force inside him. So, yes, two influences, two major influences, Horneyball lecture and the Mayers.
It's very interesting in his story too, that someone he's speaking to confronts them and suspects him of being a killer. What does he do to this person when they say when they say that to him.
Well, he killed him, just couldn't take the risk of letting him live. The person was trying to blackmail him and said that if you don't give me money with everything to the authorities, and of course Bitshkov killed him and cut him up. So that's one of the few victims that he knew actually because this man was one of his drinking companions. But he took the risk of risk of killing.
Him and he sat down for an interview once he was in prison, and you provide that interview in this book as well, very very interesting interview that was conducted.
Yes, he gave an interview to Russian journalists. There are a few interviews in the book. As I said before, there is an interview with Jumagaryev. There is there are interviews, but this interview is extremely interesting because he goes very deep inside the motivations and the details of each crime. He also talks about the contents of his diary and his obsession with the horror movies and the movie Predator. He also mentioned some of his influences. Surprisingly says that
he wasn't very influenced by Chikatiro. He knew, of course of Chikatiro, but he says that Chikatilo wasn't his idol because he was killing children, and Bishkov wanted to people to understand that he was killing adults, middle aged men, who according to him, did not deserve to live because they were alcoholics or transients. So, yes, he made a clear he wanted to make clear that he was not on the same level as Chikitilo regarding his choice of victims.
When we talk about Andrei Chikatilo. We get back to Sergei a golf can. Oh, yes, and did you talk to that. At the same time that he was killing, there was the rastav maniac, which was the elusive rastav maniac was operating at the same time. So tell us about Sergei golf Can and how authorities knew that it was not Chicktello.
The last king was killer who killed between nineteen eighty six and nineteen ninety two, so it was more or less during the Kikatillo murder spree. The thing that separated them was, of course the distance. Gay olaf King killed his victims in the suburbs of Moscow, specifically around a farm a complex where they would breed horses. It was
his job. He was a technician specialized in breeding horses, and he was He would kill his victims, his young victims because they were young teenagers, around the farm in the suburbs of Moscow, whereas Kicketillo was killing his victims around Rostov, which is thousands of miles away, but still wounds inflicted on some of the victims of Golofkin were similar to the ones inflicted on some of Chikatillo's victims
and there were traces of cannibalism dismemberment. Some of Golofkin's victims were played while they were still alive, so when the police found the bodies in the woods, because he buried some of his victims in the woods, they found some parts of their skin missing. So since they had absolutely no suspect and the only similar crime scene scenes that were that could be compared to those crime scenes were discovered in Rostov, they thought that the Rostov killer
and Poscal killer were one and the same. But what's interesting is that they were more less arrested at the same time, and both their names were known around Russia. We only know of Patila in the West, but Golofkin is equally as no in Russia. Is considered as one of the Russia's main booking man because of the circumstances of the crimes and the extremely brutal, brutalically of the murders. Also, those murders they happened in a very posh area of
Moscow where high ranking officials lived. There was the next President of the Russian Federation who lived just a few streets away from where they found the bodies, so it made a huge impact on the Moscow ades at the time. There's even a display in the local Museum of Crime in Moscow on Clofkin with pictures of his victims and some of the things that were recovered that his garage where he kept some of his victims.
You right, that at first he attacked people and didn't have this garage, this thing built, this torture do it yourself torture chamber. Helt yet. But when he had the opportunity, bought a car, and he bought and he built to start to build this garage with this hidden again torture
chamber with rings on the walls. And so that is the similarity to John Wayne Gacy in that he had the privacy and he had the ability to do what he really wanted, which was to humiliate and torture and horrify his young men that he abducted.
What's also interesting is that he developed a mother so soperanda to lure them to the garage, and he would usually ask them if they were interested in rubbing a storage unit or a house where there was vodka other variables at the time, and when they agreed to go with him and to commit the crime with him, this is when he decided that they would die for him.
He needed this more or justification to kill them. So he would tell them to jump in the hood vis car so that they would they would be hidden and they would not be noticed by anyone. And instead of driving them to plays that they would rob, he would lead them to his garage, force them into the basement, and he would attach them to the ring and when torture began.
It's eerie how much he either learned from Gayzy or how much he shared characteristically with Gaycy, because gay Sy based his murders also on that these guys were of low moral character and very much like a surgey asserting that these guys, well, because they were weak and we're going to commit the crimes, then they deserve to die exactly.
It's interesting to note the similitary similiarities in dynamics between well known Americans here curious and some lesser known Russian serial curious. And sometimes you have equivalents of say, for example, Richard Ramirez. There's an equivalent to Richard Ramerrors which I covered in my first book, was called the Night Creature instead of the nights Talker. And now in this book that this criminal is basically a Russian John van Gacy, so it's interesting to see similar tactics used by those
offenders to learn their victim to the crime scene. Of course, there are differences. For example, the mobility is important the fact that in Russia's it was this time harder to have your own vehicle, so usually they would pick up victims that lived around their place, or they would just follow them in the woods and kill them in the woods.
But for this specific offender, for girl Afkin, is signature totally changed when he bought a car because he could have a different way of learning them and learning them to a specific place where he killed them. He developed this garage for several years. He built it with his own hands, and it was in the middle of his crime spirit was not even at the beginning of his crime spree. Was already a serial killer when he started to build this garage, so he knew more or less
what he had in mind for them. He developed his fantasy and developed this idea of creating his own dungeon so he could develop and act out on those fantasies.
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No we necessary dhere. I lost in terms of conditions eighteen plus. You have another killer featured, Vasily Schmyrnov. Yes, and which was called the Necromancer of five Kills in nineteen seventy nine. What is an interesting characteristic of this killer and one of the reasons why he's included his very.
Obscure case from the seventies, He killed five, mostly children, also in the Saint Petersburg region. When he was eighteen, he tried to kill his own mother with a hammer, So that tells you a lot about the psyche. He was sent to a prison for rape and why he was in prison he was himself the victim of sexual assaults and he was kept as a sex slave via
other inmates because they have this specific yeraq. In Russian prisons, sexual offenders are often kept as sex slaves by other prisoners thieves and think their own sexual depravity on those prisoners. And when he got out of prison, he was assaulted on his way to his home. He was assaulted by a group of teenagers. He survived the attack, but when he woke up, he wore to himself to take revenge on other people, and this is when the killing started.
He got a job to learn his craft, this eventual craft at a slaughterhouse, and then soon after he started attacking. Didn'ty.
Yes, that's interesting because he slaughtered cattle and he wanted to use his knife skills on his future victims. One of the characteristics of his crime is that he drove nails on his victims heads, huge nails that he would drive with the hammer on his on his victims. There's not a specific reason why he did this, but this helped the police lin the crimes together. In total, there
were a total of five murderers. Some of the victims had bite marks on their flesh, At first, they thought that it was animals who tried to feed on the on the corpses, but the bite marks were too smooth and they eventually found out that they were human biteks. So Smirnov had tried to bite off the flesh from his victims, but he couldn't teas were not strong enough
to whip off the flesh. It was just trying, but he actually drunk from their blood, so he still considered that the cannibal by the the Russian police.
You say that finally a woman comes forward recognizing him as her rapist, and so he feels cornered when the police come to his home.
What happens, what incredible is that he actually set fire to his own home because he knew that they would find evidence inside his own connecting to other rapes and possible murders, so he burnt his own house and left. He was soon apprehended, but not before making a final
victim he read a young girl in a park. He was nearly lynched by the localsts, but the police got him in a custody and he soon confessed to five crimes, including a crime that was not even reported as a murder because he had left his victim on an open road and the victim was run over by car, so the police fought that had it was an accident. He was found to be seen and sent to a firing squad.
But what's interesting about the case is that there were rumors in Saint Petersburg about him but being executed, being kept in the secret cell somewhere in Russia where scientists would study his brain. So of course it was just a rumor he was executed, But that's an interesting anecdote concerning this particular murderer.
Yes, he had confessed to having tried the cannibalize one of those victims, but he also said that he ate some parts of the bodies of his other victims'.
Yes, what is really difficult in those kinds of cases is to know if the person is telling the truth or not, because you cannot really find hard evidence of cannibalism unless you actually find the remains in plates or you know, So it's always difficult to see if the
person is telling the truth or not. But given the personal of his kids, it's highly possible that he really did those things, and it's proved that he actually beat them, so it's extremely possible that they actually took parts of their flesh and ate them too.
Let's talk about one more incredible killer in case the illshat Kuzakov three kills. We mentioned him before, You mentioned before nineteen ninety five called him the cook. Very interesting background to have as an influence. Tell us what he witnessed when he was young.
Ill shot was from the Saint Petersburgh region as well. He witnessed murder of his own mother by his own father, so of course that influenced his psychological state when he was a young man. It happened when he was eleven, and he beat her with his bare feace, So you can imagine the violence and the impact on his is mine as a young boy. He spent his most of
his life in and out of mental institutions. He said that he had a turtle as a pet, but he split it with a hammer when he was a boy, so that that gives you an idea of his mental state. She spent some time in the Soviet army. But during during his time in the army, he tried to kill one of his colleagues and he beat him with a
French actually, and so he was sent to prison. But forensic psychiatrists diagnosed him with schizophrenia, so he was cried mandatory treatment the psychiatric clinic, but he was released a few years after. And what's crazy is that he started to get a pension for that. According to Russian law, when you are diagnosed with a severe psychiatric condition, even if you commit a crime, you get a pension from
the state. He even got a studio, a small flat in central Saint Petersburg given by the state as part of the program that they have for psychiatric patients. This is in this flat that he killed three persons. So
each time it was the same story. He would befriend someone that he had met in a mental institution and he would drink with him, befriend that person, invite him to his place, and when he would make advances on them because you know, he was gay, and that person refused the advances, this is when he would kill them. And he killed three persons like that. What's crazy is that, you know it happened in the course of several years.
Each time he would get rid of the remains around his flat, so just a few blocks away from where I lived, in the open air, for example, he would leave there head in a box in the middle of the street. The police would find it just a few hours later. It would investigate some but each time he would get away with it. The third time they decided to raid his place and this is where they found human remains and he confessed to the three crimes.
You're talking about a severed head and you're talking about body parts in the glass jar from this guy. And also that he is the only person in this book when we talked about the beginning about people's motivation for cannibalism in the twenties and the thirties and Soviet Union
and Ukraine for cannibalism was hunger. And this guy claims that because his generous pension with the government after the Soviet collapse was now not very good at all, that he actually didn't have the money for the basics and resorted the cannibalism because of hunger.
Yes, he even said that he never wants to kill anyone, but that he was so hungry that this was his only way to get actual meat because meat was so expensive in those times, especially in Saint Petersburg. The city really suffered from the crisis, the economical crisis in the nineties. They didn't have the basic food supplies like sugar and bread. So he said that as a result he had health problem. He's offered from mail nutrition and this is the reason
gave to the priest. When I explained the crimes, he said that he didn't really want to kill them, but that he was so hungry that pushed him to commit those cribs.
He was eventually sentenced, and again obviously sentenced to what they deem him.
He was released from criminal liability and sent for compulsory treatment to the city psychiatry because people with intensive supervision, so it's a special clinic if he were where they keep criminally insane, and all the murder charges were but they dropped because this is how the system works. Until now. He's still alive. He's fifty seven years old now and he's still in some way in a psychiatric institution. But it's doubtful that he will ever be fear again.
It's interesting that he was matched with a cell mate. What was a cell mate convicted up Interestingly, so.
The cell mat he had the very first months where he was in prison was convicted of cannibalism too. He had cannibalized a drinking companion too.
Wow.
The other inmates were so afraid of him in the prison where he was kept in the beginning that the only person who actually accepted to share a cell with him was another cannibal. So that tells you a lot about the fear that he spread around even in prison.
You say, he's still alive, but what did the press report in the early two thousand.
In nearly two thousand, the press we put that he had died within the wars of the hospital, and this was debunked in the twenty seventeen the administration of the hospital confirmed that he was still alive and he continued to undergo the course of treatment prescribed to the wars of the institution.
You have put the spoke together and there will be another collection. What was just the most profound characteristic that all of these other than cannibalism, that all of these killers contained.
What are the common traits among all those canuals is the addiction to human flesh. Most of them were willing to share recipes on how they cooked it. They described how addictive it was for them and the pleasure that
derived from actually doing it. It's an interesting trait. It's also interesting how the media is sharing those stories and perpetrates the might of the Russian cannible, which well objectively is not a might since, as I told you before, one third of the theories that I studied when I was researching my first book have committed to anibalism in one form or another.
And all of these people seem to provide some rationalization for the murder, but very much there seemed to be no real rationalization obviously, but many of them talking about superseding the morals of humanity with this becoming superman. Based on these transgressions.
There is this belief in most of them that what they did made them stronger, physically stronger, and some of them said that they were justified in doing what they did because they were cleansing society. It's bad elements. That's something that you find, for example, in the Cave. The last case that I cover in the book, it's a very obscure case from Kazakhstan involving three male nurses from a psychiatric hospital, yes, who were killing sex workers in
the capital of Kazakhstan. And their moral justification was that they're seeing themselves as strip cleaners, that's how they call themselves. So there is this old justification that you find finding some of those individuals.
Yes, absolutely. I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking about your book, Russian Cannibals Addicted to Human Flesh. What for people that want to take a look, tell us about your website, but also what is new on the horizon for you? Nico Klob.
You kept find the book on my website www dot serial Pleasures or Amazon. There are two versions of the book. There is a hardback version and the soft cover. This is the second book in a series of five books that I will be doing on the subject of Russian serial killers. I try to take some time in between each book because it demands a lot of research and a lot of energy to so, but I'm really proud
of those books. I try to focus on stories that are not really well known in the West and deserve some attention because those stories tell a lot about the minds of serial killers and the minds of repeat off and from a different perspective from a what's interesting is to also explore the culture. The differences in culture and
our culture might sometimes influenced those killers. Even though there are similar similarities between Western and Eastern serial killers, but each nationality and for Russia, which is a gigantic country. Each region as it's saw specialties. Tiberian serial culls are different from the ones that operate around Saint Petersburg or Moscow, for example, so it's really fascinating to see all those differences. Speaking of Russian serycules, I am also the creator of
the next book that is starting a world tour. So we are starting with Europe, starting in Rome in the next month in October. Is the first expot of this kind. It's a tour will be touring several major European capitals during the next years, and we will go to the US in a couple of years, so it will be the first export of this kind. Of course we cover American cirle killers, but I want this export to also show other cases around the world, so there would be
a section of Russian, Russian cerir killers and cannibals. Right now, I'm trying to negotiate objects that belong to Catillo, which would be a first, the first time that it will be able to see, for example, the the hat that he was wearing when he was arrested, or the glasses that was arrested. This exploit in Rome, we have purchased the glasses of Jeffrey Darmer. So betoring the world with Jeffrey damerglasses, one of the pairs that he was wearing.
I know that one of the pairs is in I can't trust East Museum in the US, but it's other pairs that we acquired from what he's called the Jeffrey Dahmer Collection. We'll be in our expo as well as many many, many other interesting objects like the freezer that belonged to German cannibal army, my verse and other fascinating objects. So it's a major exploder, first of its kind. I'm
really proud to be part of this adventure. It will last several years, so just watch watch this space and my social media is if you want to learn more about the explot I am on Instagram Nico Cloth, I'm the call official and on Facebook the Nico film.
Thank you so much, Nico Cloth for Russian cannibals addicted to human flesh. And what I hadn't mentioned was the incredible collection of two hundred and fifty photos in this book. Extraordinary. Just to add to the enormity and the magnitude of this first in the series, this collection of cannibal killers. Well, thank you so much, nico Cloth for Russian cannibals addicted to human flesh. You have a great evening and thank you so much for this interview. And good night, thank you, thank you,