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You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Good Evening.
Lance Hurdon was at the top of his game in nineteen ninety six, at age forty one. He was a self made millionaire, the owner of Access in Corporate, a successful information systems consulting company. As a prominent member of Atlanta's young, wealthy and powerful set, he was surrounded by black Atlanta's beautiful people. But when he failed to show up for work one day, friends and family started to worry.
Their worries soon turned to horror when he was found murdered in his own home, his head smashed in in what appeared to be either an act of jealousy fueled rage or a seedy or sex crime with a laundry list of ex wives and lovers, competitors, critics, and miers in hand, detectives had to break through the city's upper crust to discover his killer. Journalist Ron Stodgil tells the riveting true story of this investigation, part investigative thriller, part
sociological commentary. Redbone offers a truly intriguing story the Channel's insight into one of America's great metropolises.
The book that were feature this evening.
Is Redbone, The Millionaire and the Gold Digger, with my special guest, journalist and author Ron Stodgil. Welcome to the program and thank you for a Greenness interview.
Ron Stoggil, Hey Dan, how are you?
Thank you for having me. Dan appreciate it.
Thank thank you very much.
Very very interesting story and we get to see another slice of Americana with this, uh incredible story. What tell us, without giving any of this story away, because I have lots of questions for you, tell us how you came to be in a position that you would write this book Redbone.
Wow, I wish I had like a real sexy you know answer for that. But I'll tell you I came about it, you know, I was. I was This was like pre nine eleven, and I was a writer at Time magazine in New York and kind of I was talking to my dad one morning actually, and he had been watching Court TV. You know, he's retired, and he was sort of distracted as we talked, and Dad, what's the deal, like, you know, like talk to me. And
he was like, well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. There's just these go watching Court TV and these hot, hot, beautiful women taking the stand one after another, and they're testifying about the murder of this guy who was this entrepreneur
in Atlanta, you know. And and it was sort of like Atlanta that really rang the bell for me, mostly because you know, as an African American, having grown up in Detroit, a big major city, I'd watched so many people like there was this reverse migration of people who had left, you know, moved north to work in the factories that would be my family. My granddad, you know, worked in like the Cadillac plant, the Fisher Body plant
is what it was called. And you know, and they but they were like decades later, you know, those opportunities have sort of dried up and they were moving south again, you know, and this was their their sort of progeny, their children, you know, that we were all moving and so there was this sort of u turn that had happened. And I love just narrative journalism. I love journalism about place, and I always thought Atlanta would be a great backdrop. But I just never it would be a history lesson.
I just wanted to tell the story of Atlanta, you know, and and you know it's very influenced by Capodi, you know, and and and in cold Blood and what he you know, did in the in the heartland, uh, you know, with with that book and that murder. And then another one more modern, which was the John Barrent book Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, which was you know, another but it was sort of at Savannah played like
it was its own character. And I always thought so when I looked and I saw, you know, did a little research on Lance, I thought, wow, Okay, the Stude's a real player. You know. He ran around with the mayor at the time, and he was just he had been cited by the Bush administration for his entrepreneurship and the Clinton administration, and I thought, let me just go poke around. I had just finished a fellowship you know,
at Harvard, and it sort of blew my mind. Here I was thinking I went back to work after a year long. I just was sort of restless, and I got on a flight, and you know, I'd set up an interview with the prosecutor. So I went and just tried to just kind of poke around and see what I could figure out and see whether there was a real book in it. Dan, Yeah, that's pretty much how it happened. So it was like, you know, the thing that draws all folks to to to to intrigue. It was,
you know, gorgeous women. That's what it started.
Why not?
Why not?
Yeah, So before we go any further, just briefly explain what redbone refers to in terms of black people and so that whole phenomena. Tell us a little bit about the light skinned idea and what someone would be classified as redbone.
What is that description of that person?
I mean, you know, I mean without going into a real deep history, I mean, we know what sort of happened in the you know, in the big house or in the slave quarters during you know, slavery, and so there was you know, race mixing, and so you know what you wound up with, well, you know, these you know, very fair skinned women with European features, you know, over time, and they tended also because they learned to read earlier than you know, and they were kind of more pampered,
you know than sort of the say of the house labor. You know. They they were just fair skinned, you know, and and and they had a level of status. And of course it was in the South, and so that were really you want to like really just divide a room of African Americans. You know, it's sort of it
can be offensive. You know, it's sort of like to call it your redbone, but it is kind of a it's uh, it's it's it's Southern slang really for black women, fair black women with like European features, you know, mm hmm.
Now, the main subject of this book, and.
By the way, that's what Lance Herndon the you know, the the the the subject of the book. You know, that's was his preference. That's what he liked, that kind of woman, you know, that was that that hints the title.
Let's before we talk about Lance Herndon, let's talk about Atlanta itself. And because you really do talk about you know, a really forward thinking mayor, a very progressive government in Atlanta that made it available that contracts were given to
black people. So tell us a little bit about the fascinating history that you chronicle in this book about Atlanta and its rise to a place where they have five colleges and it's you know, really like you've mentioned, a mecca for black professionals and people black people to aspire to, to a place where they could really achieve everything they really wanted to.
Yeah, and you know, I'm working right now actually on a book on historically black colleges and narrative. I mean, these colleges were born right after you know, slavery to educate free slaves, and they were birthed by you know, white missionaries and and uh and abolitionists and uh. You know, Atlanta became you know, the kind of epicenter for you know, sort of black higher education. And so today, you know, there there's what Spelman and Clark there was, there's a
struggling Morris Brown. There's more House College in which you know President Obama just a couple of years ago gave the commencement. That's an all boys boys liberal arts school where you know, doctor Martin Luther King is among the graduates.
You know, you know, lots of graduates, whether it be a Spike Lee or Sam Jackson or Martin Luther King, you know, or Lewis Sullivan, the former Human Services Cabinet head, and so it you know, because of that, you've got generations of just really educated black people, more than most cities in the country, arguably more than any you know.
And so you know, the black elite in America have a tie particularly you know, a couple of generations ago, like to to Atlanta, and so you've got kind of an old guard, you know, a blue blood class of doctors and lawyers, you know, like I mean when doctor King graduated morehouse you know, in the fifties, I think he was third generation on his mother's side, you know, of more house men. And so this is how far back, you know, that kind of pedigree goes. And so then
you so that is the kind of old guard. It was the first, you know, one of the first cities you know to elect the black mayor, you know, and that was Maynor Jackson in the late seventies, you know, and and and Maynor Jackson used you know, a lot of kind of uh set aside programs, you know, as Atlanta was growing up and just sort of funneled business towards black entrepreneurs and so, you know, to make sure that they were not left out of the city's growth.
And so hence you got this class of their black millionaires. He created black you know, a class of black wealth that was unparalleled, you know, and it was attractive. You know, when people heard that, it was kind of like a clarion call to folks in other parts of the country to come there, right and try to break through themselves.
Now the subject, as we mentioned Lance Herndon, he's forty one at the time of his demise.
So we'll go back.
He was born in nineteen fifty five, and he spent some time in Farmville, Virginia, because his family is as you right, he kind of had a family that really didn't neglected him quite a bit, and his parents split when he was an adolescent, and he really looked up to and admired his grandparents, but especially his grandfather, John Harrison Herndon and his grandmother Elver And so tell us how now he a little bit about his early life and before we talk about his twenties and when to
become successful in his marriages. So tell us a little bit about his adolescents life, as you do in Redbone.
Yeah, I'm trying to. I mean, you are testing my memory here. The book was published in seven and I'm now like a couple of books. But it's always fun to try to like reconnect to Lance and you know, and I'm always fascinated by him. But you know, the the he was in the end a real real like his work ethic was just really impressive, you know, and we'll get into that later in terms of how structured he was and how disciplined he was, and how he
knew how to make and stretch a dollar. But you know, yeah, his mom, if I recall, you know, work two or three jobs, you know, and this is in New York he was born. His dad was sort of a he did like I think, some delivery stuff, but they were gone, you know, most of the time, and they raised him almost by like notes, you know, just leave a note on the fridge, and this is what you're eating, and and and so he wound up in Farmville, Virginia with his granddad, who was a farmer, and you know, really
that is where that work ethic started. Right, He had a very you know, he was a good student, always a really kind of technical mind, which led into you know, the business that he wound up running, which we'll get into. But yeah, Lance loved his granddad, right, I mean, that was his role model, and that's kind of where he got his his I guess you could say his ambition right there in Farmville, Virginia.
Now let's skip a little bit ahead. You say he is a character. Now one question after I asked this question here in terms of he has a couple failed marriages in his twenties, and then in the nineties he meets his third wife while he's vacationing in Brazil and she's staring at a statue of Jesus, and so it seems like it's of course divine intervention here and he
meets Janine Price. But before we go any further, describe Lance Herndon for us, he's about five foot ten, but just his facial features and what he looks like, you.
Know, I mean, Lance was like, maybe not in like a classic sense, you know, like a real you know, like a handsome guy, but he had like plenty plenty of style. You know, he would you know, had a regular appointment with the Have Dasher in Atlanta, and he always had tailored you know, tailored clothes and he was very sort of fastidious in his his appearance. Right. He was you know, kind of small in stature, so maybe
there was a bit of a Napoleon complex there. You know, it's a short cropped hair and you know, not the best kind of a ruddy skin, you know. But he was pulled together man, and just pulled together and had a lot of as a as the kids call it now, he had a lot of swag.
Yeah, what business does He eventually become a successful entrepreneur.
I mean, you know computer like, you know, sort of data processing and computer so you know, he would get the contract like Atlanta, you know, the major companies, whether it was Nation's Bank or or Coke Cocola. You know, they would farm out some of their data processing and so he would wind up getting pieces of that business and he grew it. He grew it really large for an entrepreneur, right.
And part of his success was that he was this super organized, super detailed person that would remember people's birthdays, send them presents, and do those little things to keep networks very very strong. So he was very personable in that very very generous, but it was all business. But he was very very serious about that type of business and that type of networking.
Yeah, I mean, he was the kind of guy if he found out, you know, that your son was a Braves fan, you know, he might just sort of like get a Brave hat and like before you know, and he would ask what the kid's birthday was, and he would jot it down and on that day, he'd you know, get to the you know, the hat would would show
up at your office or your home or whatever. He was always really really just super considerate and he took you know, he's really tedious with with his notes about you and it was kind of it was opportunistic and shrewd, but it was also pretty flattering two people who were in his in his network. He never missed a birthday, you know. I mean, his his calendar was like full from you know when he was, when he when when you know, when he died, it was like three years out.
That's how what a planner he was. It was also like would get up and I don't know whether you know he would he would sort of he was an early riser. You know, he kept his business in his home,
in his basement. So there was this you know sort of top two three floors, top two floors, and then beneath that though, were the offices because he was just like okay, you know, it was an office suite, so that his employees would enter and through the through the you know, go down into the that that that bottom level.
But you know, he would wake up at three am, right, and then he would go downstairs and he would record directions in like four three or four tape recorders, like you know, Zanya, I need you to call Nations Bank and da da da da, and Holly, I need you to make reservations for such and so. And he would leave there so that way he didn't have to talk to him during the day. He didn't really thought talking to his employees was sort of inefficient, and so that's
what he would do. I mean, that's the kind of he had three He was a heavy sleeper, so he had like three alarm clocks the room. So one would go off and then he might you know, snooze a little, but the other one would go off, and they were set like at like fifteen I think fifteen twenty minute intervals. I mean, he was just kind of like, you know, strange guy.
Now, he also what was odd as well as that he was obsessive about Again, we talked about hygiene, but he would take three or four hours a day. But he would also what he said, he would record instructions to his employees and have them on their desks, you know, you know, every single day. It was really reminiscent of the kind of notes that he got and the kind of parenting he got, wasn't it.
Yeah, Yeah, I guess you'd yeah, that was it. I mean, he was sort of raised on sticky, sticky notes, and so I guess he took that. Yeah. It worked, It worked, you know, and they expected that from him, you know, they expected to show up and have those directions recorded for them that.
Now, now let's talk about his lifestyle and that including his love of women and his relationships with women and how he had those relationships and how they were characterized. So he was married. We'll talk about when he was married to Janine Price.
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A beautiful woman, very very attractive woman. How did he really look he's a very serious businessman. How did he look at relationships? And how did he look at marriage?
I mean to Lance, everything I think was you know a stage, you know, like really for show. And Janine was a trophy. You know. She is from Kansas City, from a really sort of what would you say, you know, good solid middle class family. She had moved to New York to be you know, to to to dance, and then she wound up as a corporate like for corporate flight attendant, so you know, private planes for some of
the large large corporations based out of New York. And and so when she happened to be in Rio, he was visiting, and that's where they met, you know, and so I think that to him, she was just kind of the perfect, perfect, the perfect woman. But he was a serial, you know, he was insatiable. He had plenty, plenty, plenty of women. I think he did, in fact love Janine and what she represented, but it never stopped him from carousing. You know. He was a known playboy around town.
He was sort of like he threw the best parties. He didn't mind spending money. You know, he kept women on his always, you know, on the payroll and gifted them and that's what they you know, that that was his reputation.
Now you talk about having his office and his workers at this home. But let's describe this home because we're you talk about in some really exclusive areas in Atlanta where you have you know, the smallest home is nine thousand square feet plus. So just tell us about this lavish home slash business.
Yeah, I'm kind of trying to remember to press. It's in Roswell, which is, you know, a suburb of Atlanta, and it's off of the Chattahoochie River, right, it sort of runs alongside of it, and it's very very it's a gated community and I can't remember like the square footage of it, but it was you know, for that for for that area, relatively palatial, you know, and and so you know, and it was it was adjoining it sort of set, you know, right inside of a really
kind of gorgeous wooded, wooded lot. And and so when you walk, you know, if it was it was three floors and it was just you know, but it was not you know, he was a bachelor, so it didn't have a real kind of homie feel. It had almost hysterile feel. He had a housekeeper that would come in and clean it, you know, but it was just you know, his his layer, so to speak, you know.
And it was interesting too for all those people that love cars. This guy had the kinds of cars that people men especially would be envious, but women are very very interested in as well.
So tell us the kind of cars other than Mercedes.
That he had.
I mean, I think like at times, I mean he always kept like a Porsche. I think he had like a Lotus, you know, at one point, like in Alpha Romet, you know, real just hot cool. Because it was a nightclub guy. So I think during the day he would drive maybe his Mercedes or his Volvo, but then when he would hit the clubs. He would take out the Lotus or something like that. And he was known always to just be in cool cars and always you know,
sort of treating everyone. I mean, but like I said, like a kind of a Gatsbiesque place, the stature in this city, you know, the guy that they could depend on, you know, the lonely guy who was surrounded by people and partiers.
Now, before we get into some of the employees that he also had sometimes relationships with, let's let's talk about how successful he was in business, and and how long before that business sort of seemed to change, and yet his his lifestyle didn't, and the course spending didn't.
Well, yeah, I can't, I can't. What I can say more broadly is that, you know, a lot of his success was rooted in, you know, a relationship with with Bill Campbell, the mayor, and a lot of corporate folk. So he had government contracts and he had some corporate contracts, you know. But in order to really really I mean, Atlanta was being flooded with new talent all the time, just new people who wanted to kind of come in and and and and and so he had competitors, you know.
And I don't know whether or not. He was really keeping up. I mean, when you deal with a technological industry, you got to stay fresh, you know, And he kind of started to take a eye off the ball because you you know, Atlanta and today it's really that it started to become kind of an entertainment hub. You know, first R and B music, it was like Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis, those guys were out there and they produced like you know, Janet Jackson and you know, a
bunch of starts. Then there were these other producers and it became kind of it's today it's very kind of a hip hop hub. And also television. You know, I think black entertainment television b ET has its own like I think a studio Tyler Perry the director is is there.
And so he kind of that was where that like the action was, and he started sort of wanting to manage acts and things like that to sort of continue to be relevant in the kind of way that the with the new guard, the new guard up and comers, the new sort of strivers and yeah, so I think you know, he was spending more money in the end than he was making.
The other thing you talk about is and it really talks about his character, especially when it seems to be you know, he's losing his place, you know, so he's a little bit desperate and he wants to get into this younger but also he's got his interest in music, so he sort of latches on gets an opportunity with a guy that says, listen, I need seven thousand bucks. I got a little bit of a cash flow problem.
And not knowing the kind of character that Lance is, Lance hones in on this, using it as his opportunity to get in on management. And you talk about some of the embarrassing things that go on. So tell us a little bit just in general about how he kind of over extends himself.
We'll say.
You may be referring to you know, there was one group called Arrested Development back in the day, and I think they had won a Grammy and one of they produced, you know, one female star kind of rolled out of that, Dion Farris, and so you know Lance, you know, he jumped into the mix and wanted to kind of manage her and without any real real I mean, he was a fish out of water, but you couldn't tell him
that because he was cocky. Any new business and you know, he would show up at the studio and kind of try to guide her, and you know, and he just thought that she was a little too you know, didn't have it right. I think at one point he had gone into the studio and she had like a snake around her neck, and you know, and he was just like what the hell is this, Like we are we
doing music. He's you know, accused her of wasting his money and this, that and the other, and they were just like, you know, get this guy out of here.
I think it was a wreck, you know. But meanwhile he was also doing other cool things, like he had a this connect with the I think it was with the Navy, and so he put together once a which which you know is kind of made his you know, everybody remembers this where you know, he had like a luncheon and took some of his favorite clients out on like a submarine, you know, because he had to connect somebody owed him a favor, so he got him like a submarine ride, you know, off the coast of I
think Florida. So that's the kind of stuff he would do, which was like, I mean, someone takes you on a submarine, like you might love him forever. That's the kind of stuff he did.
Now, let's talk about some of the people that vowed to love him forever and included some of those again lovers and employees slash employees and mistresses. So and we've got to sort this all out for our audience, definitely. So let's talk about first Zanya Adams and what was her role with the company and what was her relationship with him. Did she have a personal intimate relationship with him?
Yeah, Well, Zanya was like Zanya was his solid right hand you know. Mary, she was actually married to a guy who was ahead of a singing group, Silk you know, I think it was Silk Yep, which was a big, big, you know at the time, kind of a hot group. But she was sort of the office manager and like always had Zanya's back. It was like she was so not interested in him, you know, romantic, you know, she sort of kept him at at bay in that way. But she was just valuable because she was solid and
ran like a tight ship. Donya Adams. Yeah, now another.
So she was so she was the solid person that really wasn't tangled up on him with relationship wise, Now, who is Lacey Banks and what did she do for him and what was she to him personally?
I mean, that was like a complicated relationship. Lacey was from a small town in North Carolina, had moved to Atlanta, and I think maybe had done some temp work under him at one point, but really was a sweet girl who was also really you know, ambitious and attractive. Right, so he kind of like mentored her to some degree, but also started to sleep with her, right, And then she almost just became like a off and on companion. So she would toggle between being a lover and a worker.
And then sometimes you know, and it was almost like an understanding, you know that you know that she would do sexual favors for him or maybe even to be you know, I mean now and then maybe even an important client that he might ask her to go out with.
Yeah, so that's the other part of it too. He did just alluded to it a little bit, but let's get to it. He she would participate in threesomes with other guys and with other women, and yeah, it was just part of the part of the lifestyle.
It was part of the deal. Yeah, you know what I mean. He would slip money into her bank account, and so she was just available to him. But they also like he talked to her, and she talked to him, and you know, she was a little younger than him, and and you know, I spent a lot of time out there. She now is like a soccer mom, you know, out in like Denver. You know, her life has changed. But at the time, you know, she really had a
lot of love for him. She said that she was you know, he was not even really it was easy work for because he wasn't really even a great lover. He just liked sex, but he wasn't great at it, you know, but she'd liked him. She liked him.
Now, tell us a little bit about Kathy Collins and what she meant to him.
Yeah, I mean, like Kathy was you know, high fashion, high maintenance, you know, gorgeous, you know, eye candy who you know, whenever he was out at something important, you know, you'd see him with Kathy because she, you know, was well spoken and ambitious and the right person to have on his arm and always kind of seeing the opportunity
and seizing it and bringing it to him. And so I think they kind of shared that that, you know, that kind of ambition, and she understood that and She liked that about him, that he was sort of a boss kingpin.
Now tell us.
She had clothes hanging in his closet.
That was you know, yeah, that's pretty serious.
Now, tell us a little bit about Holly and any other employee that was important to this story as you read it.
Well, you know, Holly was the you know, an employee, and I think she was just a good old solid worker. She was the only white person at the company.
She was.
You know what I do remember, I mean, you know, had one thing that stood out was, you know, she had gorgeous, gorgeous handwriting, like she did calligraphy. So when it was time to really be impressive and send like that note to someone, you know, like the Christmas cards and stuff like that thank you letters, you know, he could turn the Holly and she would just put some something gorgeous together to send out.
You know. Yeah, now you talked about, uh.
That was it. Those were the employees. It was sort of Holly r typically unless it was like a big kind of and they're the ones that came into the home every day, you know, Zanya.
Now you talk about you talk about Lacey's boyfriend, this Jimmy sweet Turner. So again you talked about the complication of this. You know, Lacey was in a relationship with him, it was more intimate, more frequent at different times over those twelve year period.
Times.
So she has this Jimmy sweet Turner, which becomes important in this story. So this guy seems to be constantly in debt but and very important to this. So tell us a little bit about sweet Turner and what's how's his relationship with Lacey, and then tell us about how they ended up being a loan from Lance Herndon to Turner.
I mean, you meant, yeah, again, you're you're challenging me here, Dan, but so, you know, I mean, so there's Lance who was out of her league, but she loved to hang with, right, And then she had regular guys that, you know, were her contemporaries that she would go out with and her boy and they were not Lance, you know, they were typically wannabes. And one of the one guy was this
you know, Jimmy, and that was her her boyfriend. And at one point Lance loaned him money because of course he was doing you know, he was doing you know, her a favor, right, and so they didn't get paid back, so he went and just took the guy's car and had the car. I think that's the That was that that was that was it. Yeah, he did that all
the time to people. That's what he would do, you know, that was you know, that was sort of one of his business moves, to be honest, Like when he saw something you want on it, he would sort of make a loan, knowing that you couldn't sort of pay it back, you know, and that is how he would insert himself into your life.
Now we do get.
A bad He doesn't sound like a really nice guy, doesn't. But you know, it wasn't really viewed as that, like, you know, I mean, he was shrewd, but you know, in doing the reporting on that, you know, he came across as fairly non threatening. Like I said, he was a pretty small, small guy. You know, nobody was really afraid of him, but he was. He was pretty shrewd.
Now he has this birthday party, and in true lavish style, again we're going to jump ahead a little bit to realize that his business is not doing so well. His like I mentioned, his lifestyle, he up spending the same amount of money he had people like Dion Boo. Maybe you can talk about her. She had only come into the fold about three months earlier. But what was her attraction? What did he see in her? Didn't he have enough women and enough complication in his life?
What brought her to right?
Well? You know, yeah, he you know, he had, like I said, connects all over town. And so he was having this birthday bash. H he was turning forty and he was having it at the top of the you know Hilton Hilton, I believe, right, you know, and and which overlooked like, you know, Stone Mountain and it was just a beautiful view. And so, you know, he invited
the cities movers and shakers to celebrate with him. And so he invited one of the sort of top managers at Marta, which is their public transportation company and you know, runs this sort of subway system and you know, buses and stuff like that. He invited an executive of Marta, but that executive's assistant saw that invite and thought like wow, okay, and got herself invited because you know, Lance's reputation preceded him.
And so yeah, she shows up at his fortieth Dion ball. Yeah, uninvited, but he wasn't mad at her because she was you know when he met her, she fit in. She was fair skinned and in his eyes, you know, a looker.
The other thing was is that the other to to just talk about this birthday party. It invited a couple hundred people, so was a big affair, and Lacey Banks was there but knew her place and so she stood stood by the side.
That's right. I mean he could depend on her. But you know what's funny though, is like they had actually he had a room in the I learned this in the reporting. He had a room in the Hilton, you know, and so prior to the party, you know, they had already kind of had their little thing.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Very interesting.
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Who was his Who was he with that night?
Officially Kathy his main lady.
Yes, And what was the birthday party?
Like?
Was there any problems? Was there any interruptions, any incidents?
No, It was a big, big festive thing, you know, with chocolates and all sorts of you know, golf, shrimp and appetizers and great music. You know that guy the R and B stars on his husband came and sang Happy Birthday, and you know, and and he loved, loved to dance, and so that was a great party. It was a great party. And that's where he met Dion and danced with her, and that's where their courtship started.
Now, when did this party end?
And what did did Kathy notice this, you know, sudden relationship or noticed the meeting between the two.
I'm not sure she noticed it at that party, but certainly, you know, she could start to feel the distance post party because he started dating dating Dion, you know, on the side, he sort of had two women going. He really was smitten with Dion, you know, because she was from Jamaica, she had the accent and she was bright, and she was fashionable, and she was highly sexualized, and so they, yeah, they started an affair.
And what was he providing for her? You talk about a Mercedes was given to her in a credit card in case she needed something.
So yeah, it was a serious three four months in. Yeah, that's what he did, like he you know, he was giving her money, which was sort of like his mother Operande really and then he you know, but the big one was she was having some car issues. She was a student at uh Georgia, I want to say Georgia State, it's right in in in in Atlanta. And he, yeah, he leased the Mercedes in her name, in his name and let her you know, tool around and that was
her her vehicle. Little did he know, you know, and I don't want to jump too far, but little did he know was that she was you know married, and.
She was married. She had children as well, She had.
A daughter, right. So she was a you know, a naturalized immigrant from Jamaica and and her husband was back home with their daughter. She had met him in you know, Miami, and so they were having a but he was a you know, a pilot, not like a you know, for a very small airline like Jamaica Air or something, and you know, he would move back and forth, come back and forth and see her. But Jim generally she was
there alone, right, he was raising the daughter. So she kind of had set up this life in Atlanta and was dating this you know Baller.
And what was Kathy's How long did it take for Kathy to sort of get a whiff of what was going on?
I think pretty pretty early on. I mean there was one incident in which he had I mean, Dion proved to have quite the temper, you know, and I think that this is when he said, like, Okay, I'm in hot water here. You know. He was with Kathy one night and Dion, uh, he was in his home and Kathy, like you know, they were in bed. Kathy just had like a robe on, and like Dion came by unannounced, and she used to go over there and study sometimes
and just sit and hang around. And like she knocked on the door and like Lance didn't answer the door, and she knocked and knocked and knocked, and she knew he was in there, and then she just started to really go off and like act pretty crazy out there, and so he called the cops like and played it off like there's someone I don't know outside, which was ridiculous, but that was what he did in order to protect himself with Kathy, like I don't even know, there's a
crazy woman outside, and so you know, and then when the police showed, she was combative and they ended up picking her up, you know, and he let him pick her up. He never really came outside, which was really cowardly, but that's what he did. And the next day he sort of like called and figured out some way to smooth it over. But he realized they're like, whoa, this woman's got a temper.
So what was his next move after that? Once he realized that he had a problem, a big problem.
I think he started to try a little bit to distance himself, but you know, they were connected sexually, so he was sort of like torn and he never really broke it off, even though you know, like his his his the people really at his back, like Zanya could say like, Okay, this is bad. This is bad. Like she's calling the office, she acts like she you know, runs this place. She could tell this is not.
Gonna be good, and so what is.
Uh, it was late, it was too late, okay, So talk.
About the day in question, talk about how anybody discovers talk about the day of the incident and previous What does Lance do and who does he meet? He talks to Lacey Banks that day. But what according to reports, what what seems to be what occurred with revolving involving Lacey.
Well, so if you recall, like, you know, that year, which would have been like ninety six, Yes, that was you know, the world that was Atlanta was the stage for the Olympics, and so you know, the city had sort of transformed itself to be ready for the Olympics, and it hosted the it hosted the games successfully. And you know, on Sunday, I think, which is sort of customary, they do kind of a special Olympics thing and it's sort of winding down. But on that Monday morning and
Lance really partied hard during the Olympics. I mean obviously that would the city was just you know, you know, just a playground, right, big social you know hub, and so Lance they that morning, as I mentioned, he would always leave that tape out there. He'd been leaving it for his employees every for years. On this day, they go downstairs, they to their station, their workstation, and there is no tape, and they're like, Okay, this is odd.
This is really odd, you know, And the next employee comes in and they talk about how odd it is. So it's like Zanya and then Holly and then the mother. They call because they don't have entree to the rest of the house, but they panic. The mom actually has by then had moved to Atlanta, lives not far could come over, you know, and check on her son. So they call miss Herndon and say, look, they're no tapes. We haven't heard from Lance. This is odd. Do you
know where he is? And she said, well, Lance, you know, he probably is still asleep. He hung out really hard. I don't know. I'll be over there in a minute. So they come by. She comes by the house, you know, seize at the garage doors sort of partly open, checks some things out, and then goes up, doesn't see him downstairs, doesn't see anything, goes up to the bedroom and then they hear her this blood curdling scream and they don't
know what the heck that is. They just hear her screaming and running, and they just the rumble of the floor above them. They go into the closet and hide they think that something like there's a robbery going on. They don't know, but it's her sort of panic because she finds her son bludgeing to death. You know, he's laying there. He's naked, you know, the way when the when the when the detectives show, So she calls nine one one, and when they show, you know, they find
this is what they find. They find like a really strong sexual element to this crime scene. They find you know, in the VCR. They find like a porn tape. It's not on, but it's in there. And there's another one sitting out. They find him naked. They find condoms up on the on the shelf, on the sort of bureau. They see some footsteps. There's no forced entry. They don't see force find any forced entry into the home. But they just find like a honey comb sort of imprint
on the carpet. They you know, they see blood spatter on the on the wall, and they don't see any real defensive wounds though. And they find in the commode they find bloody pillowcase yep. And so you know, they sort of figure based on what they see, you know, that it was a crime of passion. I guess they kind of decide that because number one, the guy's face was like covered up, and I think that they couldn't like stand and look at what they had done. Uh,
they also find what else did they? What else did they?
And then the alarm clocks.
Yeah, the alarm clocks were unplugged, so whoever they figured, like, yeah, the three they figured okay, this perse they must have known those clocks were going to go off, right yeah, yeah, so yeah maybe you you know, I think I'm covering pretty much covering all of that, right.
Well, basically what they did, like you said, is that this ends up being really circumstantial because there is no weapon. They find, no no weather weapon. They find pubic cares, but they would expect to find a lot of people's hairs at that time based on his promiscuity, so that didn't help them. They had found no physical evidence. They said, there was no forced entry, no robbery, so they were starting at well square one and hence why it took so long with this case as well.
That's right, that's right.
What is the what is the media response and how did they portray this story in the newspapers and television?
Well, I mean, you know, Lance was sort of a kind of a high profile figure, so you know, that was the way they found him was just really kind of shocking, embarrassing to him, you know. You know, he was a huge, huge fundraiser for various politicians and so they start wanted to distance themselves from him. You know. It was also a shock by you know where it occurred, which was this really you know, very quiet enclave and Roswell, and yeah, it was. It was. It was a shocker.
Now, who is the We can't go through how mean you as you describing the book.
It takes quite a the time.
So they go through all the suspects very very meticulously and carefully and have to come back to some people.
But who is their prime suspect?
And what did the police do initially immediately after this murder in terms of trying to suss out who their suspect might be?
Yeah, well, I mean there were three, so it was like, okay, Prior, there was Talanta, No, not Talanta, there was Lacey I'm sorry, one of his women. And Lacey, you know, okay, she'd seen him last because he had this event that he was planning for, and so she had come by the house and was helping him put together some invitations and so they tried her. Obviously they thought of like, okay, Janine, they had been divorced or they were separated, and so you know the ex wife, that one always comes up,
you know. And then there was Kathy, who could have been you know, he was cheating on her, so she was kind of a suspect. They were all of those folks kind of had alibis, right. And then there was Dion, the Jamaican. You know, she's married, but he's like given her like you know, he was kind of her sugar daddy, you know. And there was one key key, you know,
and his whole kind of fastidiousness. She used to borrow his computer that was you know, like for school, and you know he would all he'd loaded to her, but it always had a case on it. I mean, he was never going to let that computer out with the
case without the case. And so when they went to talk to her, you know, they searched her home and they that computer was there because they said, look when they you know, one of the things the employees said like, look like all we know is that the one thing that's missing, and here is that. And Diona always borrowed the computer, and the case is here, but the computer's going.
They found that computer at her home, so really started to try to figure out, like narrow the timeline on when that case left the house.
The other thing is, yes, you introduced this detective Anastasio, and this guy says, I'm going to go back and
start doing some interviews. So there are many interviews, but he gets to a chance to talk to Sean Nelson, which is Dion's husband, and so they have and what he finds out after the fact is that there's information like unbeknownst to him is that Dion was having this affair, but unbeknownst to him as well as that he had the Mercedes, he had told her she had told him that some other fanciful story about where she got the Mercedes, just from some you know, a friend who was who's
supportive of her education. So there wasn't gradually his especially when they had a phone call where Lance had called and demanded to talk to to her, and and her husband, Sean wanted to know why he wanted to talk to her, And so you tell us a little bit more about the story, because it really demonstrates quite a bit about a couple of these characters, in fact, all of them.
Well yeah, I mean, well, you know, I guess one time, like Sean, as I mentioned, would come in and you know, and to see his wife. And during you know, and as he was coming in, he was noticing she was
more and more distant towards him. But also you know, was getting this material like was was sort of these gifts he was And at one point she picked up picked picked him up from the airport, and she had a Mercedes and you know, and and and she explained that, okay, you know, I've got this mentor guy and he let me, you know, drive it or whatever. And it just didn't
add up. So one day, you know, I guess they're in bed together and Lance calls the Dion's house and Sean answers the phone and it's like who is this, you know, and they kind of have a little confrontation and you know, and I think Lance kind of threatens Sean, and uh so, yeah, there was a lot of tension
around that, around that. But one thing that's key there is that during that one incident, and this is really really important to the sort of murder and motive and what have you, is there are a couple of things we've gone over, you know, one, how fastidious he was and how what a planner he was, and that night, you know, he logged everything into his computer, into his calendar and that and that calendar was managed by his employees.
And that when when when when Dion came to his house unannounced, there was a court date and he told her that he was going to show up and sort of get her off on that he was going to testify or whatever at this court date and get this whole thing, you know, matter taken care of, expunged or whatever, and so on this particular like on the night of this murder, you know, she had gone to the home, right and this is what, you know, sort of the picture that gets painted anyway, is that this was the
night before he was post to show up at court, and I think, like, so they made love. He falls asleep. She goes downstairs while he's asleep and checks his calendar and sees that there was absolutely is that his appearance, his schedule. It's not on there. It's not on there. And this is where the you know, the sort of picture gets painted is that she goes back upstairs. He had been putting together supposedly, you know, a because they
couldn't find the murder weapon. He had apparently had been putting together kind of like a StairMaster of some sort, and there was a crescent wrench that was there like at like seen apparently by the valet of that house
and the housekeeper and all of that that question. So apparently she you know, straddled him while he was asleep and brought that drench down on him some fourteen fifteen times, and you could sort of look at the spatter on the wall and you could see, you know, and there were a couple of times where he may have tried to move, and you know, it came down the crown of his head. But that's the way this whole thing,
that's the way the prosecutor painted the night. And that was the kind of motive was that she realized that he was just playing her, and she was just enraged.
The other part of her was quite irrational, and she always she also had was had that the big lie with her husband in the phone call the night before the murder, where she had bought a house for one hundred and eighty thousand, she had the Mercedes, and and so then there was a little bit of more evidence to this was that she ordered some antique a piece of furniture after ye.
Like yeah, like ran up the credit cards like after his you know death.
Yeah, And she and she had said to her husband, Sean, I mean again, you categorize him as whimpy, and he definitely.
Is, she said.
He said, you got to give that car back. And have you ever slept with this guy? And she said, of course not. No, I never slept with him, but he gave me the Mercedes to use. But she said, well, I'll give it to him back to him gradually. I don't want to get him mad or anything.
And so he agreed with that.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean you know, I mean he was from you know, really sort of well to do family, I mean a by all accounts, he was just like a really good, supportive, sweet guy who was way over his head with this with this very cunning woman that he married.
Now as very much to be expected.
She gets a really good attorney eventually, and then he realizes he's a little over his head in terms of experience, so he gets another experienced guy and they make a pretty good team and sort of a saw like you call it a soft touch in the cross exam examination.
And the other guy, he's really Quinn. He's really aggressive, and so he can he can do some damage and and make some headway in terms of on the stand with these witnesses and you and you have everybody from Lacy Banks who's eight months pregnant, taking the stand, to Kathy Collins taking the stand, and in the end, the Dion Baum takes the stand as well. Very very interesting. Tell us a little bit about the testimony of Dion on the stand the cross examination.
Mmm. No, they never put her on the stand. They never put Dion Ball on the stand.
Okay, okay, sorry, no.
No, no, Dion Ball. That would have been a nightmare. I mean the Kathy, you know, the the uh you know Katy, like you know they put Kathy was sort of the star of that in a kind of a humorous way because Kathy, you know, got on this like what you know, she was just such a diva. You know.
One of the things that she was worried about, like was like during the crime, like as the investigators had sort of shut the house down, you know, she had clothes in there, and like she was pissed off because they wouldn't let her kind of come in there and get her wardrobe. And so she put like a two or three paid list of all this designer stuff that she needed to get out of that house. You know. So that was that kind of you know, yeah, I mean he had sort of some real characters around him.
You know, it was interesting.
She specified merlot Wine had to had to be that was hers.
She said it was.
Her.
That was Yeah, that's what she wanted to Yeah, and this man's dead and you know, but I think like Lacey was genuinely hurt, like her friend. Yeah, that was her friend. Mm hmm.
Now you talk about the thing as well, and it it in terms of by the time this trial starts, it looks like his friends are gone and uh and dion Bao doesn't have her many supporters whatsoever.
So it's just the media there. But everybody takes their turn testifying.
Yeah, I mean that sort of you know, this kind of reflects the superficiality of his life, you know, I mean he had worked so hard to develop these networks of people and had been successful at that, but you know, the more he was just dragged through the mud, and the more it just was, you know, you learned about him the more people wanted to distance themselves themselves from from him, so he was very much alone, you know, and you know, and ultimately I just wanted in the
book to I asked myself sort of you know, this big question, you know, like you know, you know, you hear about black males dying all the time on like street corners, you know, and this was a guy who was anything but that, yet he died, you know, and
in a really violent way. And so it was like, what how does a man kind of with the world and his fingertips, you know, wind up dying that kind of horrific death, you know what, and and and and and how much of a role did you know sort of the values of of of sort of the black nouveau riche in Atlanta play into that and the sort of skewed value systems, and you know, and I wanted to and all that's the question I wanted to ask, you know, like if if if you know, there's theories
you know of like this whole kind of black male as a as a kind of endangered species and you know, being you know, selected out you know in some way, you know, to what extent, you know, what role do they play in their own kind of demise, and that was sort of the broader question. And so Lance in my you know, was sort of a cautionary tale of a kind of metaphor for you know, a you know, success kind of gone awry if you will. Yep, So that was the that was the That's what I was
trying to get at with that. Dan.
I think too that he had great success. You know, you don't betray him as really a bad guy. Wasn't a bad guy. He was a serious business guy. He seemed to be a nice guy. Really, he seemed to be a pretty pretty good guy despite being a successful businessman, and he could manipulate, take advantage of people. He seemed to be a pretty good guy. But with that being said, he had a good relationship with Lacy Banks, he had a solid relationship with Sonya Adams. These people were really
friends of his and he could trust these people. And so he had coffee Kathy Collins in before that, Genine Price, and he had close friends like as you talk about in the book, Paul Howard from the that was very influential and.
In this case as well, people that knew him a day himself, right, the da himself knew him, he was friends with him, you know, And so the DA was kind of a quest, like I gotta help, I gotta figure this out.
And you know, I mean, it sort of happened even for me because, as I mentioned, I had gone down there Dan like just poking around, and I was like, Okay, who's this big player? You know? And and and and and this is really really kind of like a dominique Dune kind of yarn. And I was just viewing it from the prism of just a really interesting who done it? You know? And and and I did two or three trips, and then there was like one trip I went and I don't remember. I was sitting. It was late night,
and you know, we were tired. I was in the Assistant Prosecutor, Clint Rutger's office, and he sort of said, hey, man, have you ever seen the crime scene pictures? And I
said no, in fact, I haven't. He said, hold on and he left, and he came back a couple of minutes later, and he was an envelope and he like tossed him out, you know, took the pictures out and tossed them on the table right there in front of me, on the desk, And when I saw these photographs, I had never seen that, like this was someone who's just skull was just bashed in dozens of times. And I really felt like a little embarrassed that I hadn't truly
considered the human vanity of this person. You know that no one, based on what I had been hearing, like he didn't need to die like that, he didn't need to die at all, but goodness gracious, what a death. And I thought, like, you know, the least I could do in the book, if I can somewhat kind of humanize him and you know, give him back some of that dignity, then that's you know, and that's also was what I was trying to pull off.
Well, you know, you really do have access to information that you know, really Dion Boo is really a psychopath, and her treatment of her husband and her own child, and and of course this person that was her benefactor at this time to turn on him like this, and like there again, we can't go through the whole trial at all, but there was a question that could a five foot three woman one hundred and ten pounds do this much damage, no matter how mad?
He was?
Right right, Well, you know, if the guy was asleep, you know, and couldn't react, there were no real defensive wounds on his sort of you know, on his forearms or any of that, you know. I mean that was the that was the scenario that that was painted. Is that you know now true? Yeah?
Throughout his trial, of course, his defense lawyers rightfully are trying to cast doubt on people like or cast suspicion pardon me, on people like Lacy Banks or Kathy Collins or anyone else they can through their successive cross examinations of these witnesses. What is what is the Dion Bow's demeanor at trial?
I mean she's sort of like really really stoick, like there's not that much emotion whatsoever. You know, she almost smug, you know, which is typically her disposition frankly, you know. And I mean when I went into the prison and met her, I found her to be kind of like that too, And maybe I misread her, but even in prison, you know, there was nothing humble about her. And she went to trial a couple of times. I mean, at one point I had been trying to get in to
see her. I figured like, there's no way I can get to this. I can finish this dog on book without like talking to her. I got to talk to her. She's in prison now, you know. And I would send these letters to her. They would always come back rejected, rejected, rejected, And some folks in the newsroom said, look, man, you need to send her like you need to become a little human, like, like, send her a picture. I don't
know who you are. And I sent her a picture of myself and talked to him, and I came back rejected again, you know. And so when I finally met her, I get gone into Atlanta, I had like a I went in and I had a suit on and stuff. I'll tell you how I got, you know, to meet her. But anyway, when I got in there, I said like, wow, you I'm surprised you, you know, agreed to meet with me.
And she's like, well, yes, you look more important that you have a suit on when the picture you sent me had like a leather jacket or I only I only deal with like important people, something really ridiculous like that. Yeah I didn't, yeah, you know, but I didn't. Yeah, And I was trying, you know, I just went at the wrong angle, I guess, you know.
But she she is she has continually just denied this right no matter what.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But despite everything, obviously obviously she was convicted. Then what was this sentence in that state? What can they give her? Can they give her with a.
Without people like yeah, no, no, no, actually I went
through so many permutations. So, like he was, the first trial was over, the decision was overturned because they said that Anastasia the detective was sort of leading the witness, right, And then the second trial was a hung jury, and then the Sam House before the third trial, Sam House was the chief investigator and a really key you know, witness died and so they didn't think after the hungury, they didn't think that they could necessarily and people had
moved on. They didn't know whether they could get a conviction again. And so she pled guilty and she got I think that she's free now. Dion Ball is like, yeah, she's not behind.
Bars now, so it's down to a manslaughter.
Right, yeah. I think she got like like seven or eight years, and she had already like done three.
She had been offered a deal that might have given her even less time than that, but she was not interested in an apparently, and you write in your book.
She was in prison, she was freaking out. She just where's my bottled water?
Yeah, where's my bottle water? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's not a country club, it's a prison.
And so what was your overall impression from this woman? You know, I mean, I guess I don't know how many words you could describe.
Was she desperate? Was she cocky? What? What was your overall impression after your interview with him with her?
I really think, like you said that this she was a sociopath. I think that that the idea. I mean, Lance Herndon was kind of a master manipulator. And you know, I think he just I think she took him very seriously and add his word, and I think she was I think he just counted the wrong person, and I think she snapped on him.
And what do you think her her motive was that he made that the sugar Daddy was not going to be there anymore, and that was the reason, plus the plus the court, the court case itself.
So yeah, that he lied to her that he was not planning on coming and looking out for she was afraid of what would happen to her on that end, and I think she was just like how dare you you know, and you know he had sex with her moments before.
M Yeah.
Yeah.
The one of the interesting thing was the one of the bigger mistakes she made was to use that credit card that next day.
To buy something that was that smart.
And you also you also have a very very interesting when they originally went Anastasia went to her home and she pretended not to be home, then ran out to the neighbor after the police had already canvased the neighborhood, and then the neighbor rat it on her and said, yeah, she was just asking me was what you had asked
her or what she had asked us about you? And so then they returned and then there was this whole incredible theatrical scene where she was running and falling down and crying but you know, no tears.
With no tears, right, yeah.
Yeah, it's a fascinating story.
Well, she's just among some of the wild characters in this story read including Lance too. I mean, you talk about a guy that you say is particular, but this guy was really a very very interesting guy in wanting this certain lifestyle, and so it is a fascinating tale and you bring the reader right into this incredible world
of of opulence. And I guess I don't know about decadence, but at least it was definitely uh some lavish, lavish stuff going on here, some money being spent and so some people doing well.
So very very interesting.
So I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about Redbone a.
Millionaire and oh, thank you Dan much.
Now, if people, if people want to know a little bit more, I don't know if you have a website or if you do Facebook, So tell us if there is.
People you know, I mean, there's you know, it's my name, you know, Ron Stodgil r O n Stodgil s t O d G h I l L dot com, you know, and and you'll see the book on that there. You know. Uh, HarperCollins was the publisher of that book. So it's still available, you know, on Amazon, you can get it there and you know de Barn all those sites, you know, and so it's been every if you watch enough TV, you
know I've been on. It's been on like a couple of the true crime things because people would find different angles, like you know, people like the lands Hernon thing, you know what I mean. But I got to say that this is your your your take, and your uh examination has been like the most thorough that I've ever done. So you've read it, and I'm flattered, Dan, and you do an excellent, excellent job at at at this. I appreciate it. And you challenged me, you know, you know, you've you know, so bravo.
Well, thank you, thank you very much. No, it was my pleasure.
I mean, it's just a fantastic book and an incredible read. And again it's just a fascinating slice of history for everybody that you know at that time, anybody that lived anywhere. You get the slice of Americana that you just everything included the R and B music, the guy singing Happy Birthday to Lance and then shortly after his face is crushed in his own bed by somebody who gave him Mercedes to him heave one hundred and eighty thousand.
So wow, yeah, so much for.
Treating anybody good anyway.
So good yeah, yeah, well, thank you, thank you, thank you very much.
It's a pleasure. Yeah, Okay, thank you. Have a great night, you too, Good night night.