RAGING ON-Paula May

In First degree Rage, Underwood arrogantly evaded justice for his heinous crimes until Detective Paula May in her investigative team uncovered who he really was. Because of their efforts, he was convicted for first degree kidnapping and murder of Victor Gunnerson, Kay's new boyfriend, But what was Underwood also responsible for the brutal murder of Catherine Miller that occurred mere days

after Gunnerson's demise. Sentenced to life in prison plus forty years, Underwood has no intention of staying in prison and vows not to stop until he exacts revenge on those he blames for his current predicament. His thirst for revenge will not be quenched until more blood is shed. Underwood rages on, plotting his next move and listing others to perform the evil deeds he imagines wreaking havoc in the lives of

k Jason, Detective May, and others. He sends them all on an emotional roller coaster ride that never seems to end. Will they ever find peace? Will Catherine Miller's murderer ever be brought to justice? Will Underwood's reign of terror ever be stopped? The book that we're featuring this evening is raging on with my special guest, detective and author Paula May. Welcome back to the program and thank you so much for this interview. Paula May, thank you, thank you so

much for coming on and joining us. Again. We last spoke to you in April twenty twenty with the when we spoke to you about your book First Degree Rage, the True Story of the Assassin, Obsession and Murder again about L. C. Underwood, tell us just the little bit before we get into this incredible uh story, raging on how this is a series or it's connected to the first book, and tell us the impetus for the reason for the second book.

And I have such an overwhelming response to First Degree Rage at the readers really uh urge me to complete the story, to tell them more about Elsie Underwood, and they were really hopeful that Catherine Miller's Martyr would be advanced.

that he did perpetrate. So you take the reader in Raging On back to December third, nineteen ninety three, but just before that, you take us to Salisbury, North Carolina, a small place of population thirty two thousand people in the county seat and located at the southeast of your hometown of Boone. So just tell us a little bit about your background and where you were as a law enforcement person at that time December ninety three.

of Uh, an unidentified man. Uh the new nude body was found under a blanket of snow just off of the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is a National Scenic byway there in the mountains, and he had been murdered by being shot twice in the head. And it took us a few days to get him identified, and when we did learn his identity, we discovered that he had been living in Salisbury, which was uh Salisbury Police Department was

where Kelsie Underwood was employed as a police officer. Having had a little over nineteen years of law enforcement experience, I didn't know him personally as at all, even though we were both in law enforcement the Chiss. Salisbury's a couple of hours away from where I lived and worked. But there was some investigators in Salisbury, which is Rowan County, and they were investigating at the time we found that Victor Gunnarson's body, he had been reported missing down there,

so they were looking into that. But also they were investigating the homicide of Cave Whedon's mother, Katherine Miller. And that was a seventy seven year old lady, sweet little lady. It's still working full time, had worked at the same place for like forty years, active inner church in her community, had no enemies whatsoever, and was just very close with her own daughter, Kay and Kay's son Keathan Miller's grandson, Jason Whedon, And so that was really a Who've done it?

For them? Someone had entered her home. The alarm system had been deactivated, so they believed that it was someone that she knew. She also was shot twice in the head. This but inside her her kitchen where she was preparing her New York little dinner of a little pan of beans on the stove, and she had apparently been reading the daily newspapers. And so they were in the midst

of that investigation we found a Victor Donnerson's body. He had been reported missing just a few days after Katherine Miller was murdered, although he had actually been missing a few days before she was murdered. And so the common denominator in those two cases was Kay Whedon because Kay had been had just parted, in fact, a romantic relationship with Victor Gunnarson. And of course then her mother was.

you became involved. What was the some of the information that you learned about this police officer of nineteen years What did you learn about Underwood?

or maybe things were progressing too fast for him. And so about the time that and she had wondered where he was and had tried to get in touch with him, even had gone by his apartment a couple of times with a friend, and he's kind of scouting things out to see if he went brown, and there was no sign of him there. But then her mother was brutally murdered, so that just put her whole life into a tail spin.

And it was after her funeral when she realized she still had not heard from Victor, and then it dawned on her that perhaps something had happened to victor that he had not gone away voluntarily or he was not just blowing her off, but maybe someone had done something

to him as they had done to her mother. So when I contacted the official in Salisbury and we had kay look at the jewelry that was found on our victim's body, which was a very distinctive watch and ring that she very quickly identified them because he was wearing those the last night that she spent with him, or

the last evening before he went to his apartment. So after sheified those things, and then I spent that first day I spent with her, probably was eight or more hours in an interview with her, and then many times thereafter, and that's where I first learned about fili C Underwood as far as his personality and his behavior and their relationship,

which was completely unacceptable. He was very, very controlling, jealous, and his behavior was just the way off the norm as far as trying to manipulate and control her, and then of course there were moments of violence. And as I began to look into Underwood's background, which became very extensive. That's a very extensive part of the investigation. He traced his background all the way back to his childhood and infancy where he was abandoned by both of his parents.

He was left with an abusive uncle and when the uncle got through with them, he grew up in a children's home and an orphanage in North Carolina, and then the day he turned eighteen, he left. And his relationships all during that time were dysfunctional. But when he became an adult and found himself in adult relationships women that he either dated or married, his behavior was just extremely violent and was shocking to me that he was able

to survive a career in law enforcement. But looking back and at that particular time, there was very little documentation in his personnel files about his behavior. But he would get in trouble with women, either stalking them, harass them, and sometimes there were instances of violence, and before things got too heated, he would just go to another departments.

And so that was frustrating as a law enforcement officer to not find documentation of things that we were being people that happened, and people were well aware of the things that he had done, and there was physical evidence in those cases as well, and at least one woman was hospitalized with severe injuries, others their property was ventialized and because col evidence was found uh in she's possession of those vandalisms like cans of risk prey paint for instance,

and so he was able to survive all of the time. But he had been at Salisbury for Police Department for eight years and he finally had gotten suspended for his talking behavior of Kay and some some conduct that was he just humiliated her into in a restaurant where she was having dinner with a male friends and that got him suspended. So there was there's a long history there and that is kind of where we I got into the I got into the story just with his relationship with Kay Whedon's mm hmm.

that characterizes his behavior, and she had stalked. He had stalked Kay and Gunnerson and her mother at this restaurant and then had called her afterwards, which I just thought would ring with the alarm bells would go off, that he knew the details he had been stalking her that night and asked if their mother liked the new boyfriend, so she knew his behavior in that regard and then that was one of the reasons why she split up

with him in the first place. We have to fast forward a little bit because you gather evidence and you talk about divine intervention in this regard to with some of this physical evidence that came together, and it's fascinating. But the thing is is that they were never able to convict him, let alone charge him for the murder of Catherine Miller. And you explained in the book why

that is. Tell us why despite being able to have enough evidence to convict for the Gunnerson murder, why there was not enough evidence according to the DA, to convict for Catherine's murder.

evidence as well. The only physical evidence in Catherine Miller's case that was able to be tied to Anderson Underwood personally was the fact that he owned a thirty eight caliber gun and that was the same making model of the one that fired the fatal raump into Catherine Miller.

And then after both of the homicides, then both of the weapons that we know he had and likely used in homicides disappeared and he would he refused to produce them, so they did not have, uh the ballistic evidence that would tie the shooting of Catherine Miller to Elsie Underwood. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence, so we felt very strongly that a jury would convict based on the

extensive circumstantial evidence. And and there there was some pretty significant circumstantial evidence, like multiple citizens saw vehicle matching Underwood's description at her residence at the time of her murder, but not they cannot positively identify it as he is, like they didn't have a license plate in that kind of information. But there was a lot of circumstantial information.

But at the jury and our case, jury members told us that they would definitely have convicted him of Chatham Miller's murder, you know, had they been charged with making that determination. However, you know that was they weren't allowed to do that. And so initially upon under was conviction of first degree murder and first degree kidnapping of Victor Gunnarson. The district attorney, everybody was you know, pretty young ho

about it. Everybody was optimistic that, you know, we just need to go ahead and uh give Chase some justice in terms of our mother's murder. And but then after some lengthy discussions and that looking at some of the four or four be evidence that's that's evidence of another murder that brought into Victor Gnnerson's murder, said the evidence

in Catherine Milik's case was brought into ours. The district attorney in Roane County felt that, and of course, you know, with double jeopardy and so forth, you've only got one shot. We've only we only had one shot at Victor gnerson They only got one shot at Caatherain Miller's murder. So he's felt like that if he tried the case at that point without the physical evidence that we had, that

either the jury may find him not guilty. I mean, all they had to do was, you know, agree that there was a reasonable doubt and that alone might give him uh an a an appeal that would grat him a new trial in our case overturn our conviction, or that if they convicted him of murdering Catherine Miller and he appealed something in that trial and something did not go well and and then our conviction could be overturned.

So they preferred wait and hopefully find any additional evidence in the future, or if it looked like he was going to win an appeal in our case, then he would have that one holding over his head and they could then charge him. So I understand the strategy, but this strategy didn't help Kay Whedon feel like, you know, her mother's murder, had murderer had ever been brought to justice.

So that was very painful for Kay and for Jason, and it was frustrating, you know, for me to know that he had killed this, this absolutely innocent lady and was never going to be charged with it. But that I also understood. You know, we definitely don't want him out of prison, and if and if he wins an appeal and gets out of prison or get some new trial, there's no you know, no guarantee of what might happen. And you know, we were everybody was safer with him

in custody. So that's that's how that happened. And we didn't feel like that we would have any additional evidence to find unless somehow the guns turned up. Because we had investigated the case for almost four years. The four of us are investigative team together was Salisbury and US, so we weren't optimistic that new evidence would be found, but at the same time, we didn't want to risk lose in our case either.

What does this sentence really mean?

sentence that was imposed by the judge. But jury only made the decision for Ifford, and they were eleven one in favor of the death pelts.

be released. But let's talk about how you became, just along with Ka, fearful for your life.

was to choose me. And so at first he would not have anything to do with anybody else in the case. If he spoke to anybody at all, it was only me, and we did not expect that he would ever even agree to an interview, and he really did not. But one Saturday night, shortly after his arrest and he had the jailer contacted me and said he wanted to talk, but he would only talk to me. So I went to the jail and he and I sad that in the room alone beside, alone with each other in the jail,

and we talked. He made an effort at that time to try to extract from me what evidence there was

against him. He was trying to interview me or interrogate me instead of the other way around, which I was not a surprise coming from somebody else, you know, that had been a law enforcement for so many years, And when that did not go his way, he became unfriendly with me, and in fact, in that particular meeting is where I got a taste firsthand of just how his demeanor changed and a tiny bit of the rage that

he held inside. And that's when his eyes went dark, and there was a very real presence of evil there that was manifested at that time in my presence. And so after that we had a bond hearing. He was given no bond upon his arrest, but his court appointed attorneys very quickly filed invasion for a bond reduction or

or setting up a bond. And at that particular hearing, I testified that I did not think that he should be released because I thought he was a danger to be released after he realized that he was going to be charged with that murder, and that he was a danger to these other women in their relationships, and that they had given us interviews which he was now entitled to discovery, and so forth, and he became he hated

He all of a sudden hated me so bad. At that point, as we took him back to the jails from the courthouse, he called me everything that a built cow in the jail and just enraged. He was so angry, and while he was serving for a while he was awaiting trial. In the jail, he drew pictures of me. He he just made horrible statements about me to other people, and it was very obvious that I was I had become the center of his attention, you know, for that

period of time that did not go away. I think during the trial he focused on another SBA agent, Don Gel and the prosecutor at trom Raser and uh and then and me. So he was not only he did not only have the evil directed towards kay Whedon, but he had focused on us as well, but me in particular.

I found out later while he was in prison that he plotted and planned too to kill me and along with my husband and my my daughter who was a toddler at the time, in our house one night, and he had enlisted another person who was about to get out of prison and paid that person money. I was in the process of paying that person money as well as who we believe also was the prosecutor was another

target of his as well. So I have now been in law enforcement more than three two years and many times, you know, we've received threats and you know, so forth. But for lack of time, I won't go into all the details. But in this particular instance with Elsie Underwood, I mean, he had gone to great links to make it happen, and so I was fearful of him, and I didn't have to deal with that. Now you have to go on with your life. But that cloud of

fear never really goes away. And so at any given point he could have escaped from prison, and I was well aware the people do that all the time. You know that certainly was not beyond the realm of possibility, So you know that was what that was what was different in this particular case for me personally.

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Elsie under Would from behind the bars of prison. But at the same time, you're always open to the idea of evidence, and a strange thing happens when Elsie Underwood contacts authorities to complain about a woman he met in prison named Lisa Collins. Tell us about this complaint and what it leads to and what you're curious about once you hear this complaint from Elsie Underwood about this woman, Well.

of a financial fraud. And so what he was requesting though, is that we look into he had given this girl and incidentally, he met Lisa while he was awaiting trial in jail in with Hogi County, and he had given her access to his credit cards and because she was his girlfriend from Afar, and as it turned out, she took him for a ride apparently and UH maxed out the credit cards and so forth with her on expenses. UH.

But he wanted her prosecuted. And but the the crimes had not occurred in our jurisdiction, so it would Yeah, it wasn't not appropriate for me to be investigating that particular those particular charges. UH anyway, and already referred him to UH the appropriate agency, but for investigation. But that is how we learned about Lisa and UH their relationship.

And even though the relationship ended temporarily I guess because of the fraud, of the defrauding of one another, their relationship, unbeknown to us, continued because they remained in contact over the years that even while he was in prison.

But anyway, when they ultimately he got taught to her, what she told them was pretty amazing because during all of the years of the investigation, which was almost four years, and throughout you know, waiting for the trial and so forth. Elsie had not admitted to anyone that he had kidnapped or murdered Victor Gunnarson or had anything to do with

Captain Miller's murder. And what Lisa told them was that as she and Elsie had gotten romantically involved in the jail in Watagi County by themselves being directly across from each other, he ultimately confessed to her. He told her that and in sort of a bragging way, that he had kidnapped and murdered Victor Gunnarson, and that he had

also killed Kaye's mother. Lisa, her credibility was really suffering, but she did share with us some of the information that had not been publicized that she would have had begotten from someone who knew about the details of the murder, and so she was able to tell us things that we already knew but that were not public knowledge. So

that gave her some credibility now. So the investigators there talked with their district attorney and he was had some serious concerns about Lisa being able to testify to those things and her credibility, and even before he would have a chance to make a decision, Lisa would be gone and be out of communication and wouldn't was uncooperative again, So she was she was unreliable as well as uncooperative at times, and so the district attorney felt like that's

just not enough. You know, she you know, anybody can claim that that she read this stuff in the newspaper or heard about it somewhere and is making it up to help herself out of trouble, because she was in trouble in and out of prison, and she had a history of not violent crimes, but uh uh, she had history of drug abuse and also a long strain of frauds that she had committed against people, financial frauds.

of different stories about where the weapons are. But she did she had a map. She drew a map of where she had last seen the weapons, and they were buried in the state of Ohio. Investigators went to Ohio but were unable to locate the weapon. So there was an issue of her credibility, so that it's the attorney had

a good point about that. But we also knew that she and she alone still being in contact with ELC and in a relationship such as that Elsie planned to marry her as soon as he won an appeal or was else for otherwise able to get out of prison. And that was what he planned all along, and that's what she had agreed to. Now, whether she really meant that or not, you know, that was between them, him and her, But she hadn't convinced that she meant it,

so we did. At at one point she agreed to wear a recorder, and there was a number of phone conversations that were recorded, but but he would not talk about the murders over the phone. He said he would only talk about those in person. And so she agreed to go and visit him and wear a recording device, and she was able to talk with him.

a thing for him, and that made her unreliable. But in this tour, credit she does an admirable job betraying him and getting details of Catherine Miller's murder and Victor Gunnerson's murder as well.

And when she got him started talking, he was very detailed, and she said, and her her argument was, I can't you know, I don't I don't mind so much about Victor Gunnerson that there's no excuse for you killing this little little lady that I had never bothered anyone. And she said it, so in order for me to get you know, to get past that, I have so many questions in my head. I need you to just tell me everything about what happened, you know, and let's then

let's put it behind us. And that was the tactic she used to get him to talk. And did she ever he gave He gave her information and indirectly us of how of each step he took and how how he actually carried out each of the each of the cases, the kidnapping and murder of Victor Gunnarson and the brutal murder of Catherine Miller as well. So at that point,

we think we've got great evidence. I listened to the according I had heard bits and pieces of it over the phone, it was distorted and hard to hear, but when I listened to the tape itself, I did not have any trouble understanding what he was saying. And so that's the point that I was really super disappointed with the prosecutors in Salisbury because I felt like, finally there was a confession, it was obtained lawfully, and it was

his own words telling exactly what he did. And not only the words and the and the physical things that he did, but also the total lack of remorse in his voice was very apparent.

for the reader to read. Some of these details of what Underwood said to Gunnerson again this full humiliation, asked him personal questions about the relationship with k he said, even asked him if he had slept with him, where he had slapped them, if the if he liked the mother.

All of these details come out just to highlight his psychopathic mind on full display here now with those details you said that are very clear on that tape despite it having audio problems, Again, why does the prosecutor decline to use those that evidence?

He felt like that lista that the defense would just tear her to shreds and maybe even get the whole entire thing uh thrown out, in which case we would be back at square one. So he was he was trying to be cautious. But but I I just personally I was, I was disappointed that that that that was

was not satisfying him. Uh Kay eventually heard the confession, and I think that brought her some degree of I guess he in some way or some kind of satisfaction that she finally got to hear out of his own mouth. You know that he admitted to killing your mother, because you know, no one's ever charged, even though everybody's confident about what happens. You know, she didn't never really know for certain. But once she heard it come out of his mouth. There's no doubt whatsoever.

reason except to kill the seventy seven year old sweet woman. Right.

and that kind of thing. But you have to understand Elsie's background and the fact that he had severe issues and abandoned the issues from not having his mother, and he resented even the fact that Ka even had had a loving mother, much less the fact that she was trying to say, Kay, this is not a good relationship.

You need to get away from this man. I mean Captain Miller was verious to very wise and was trying to give her daughter good advice, but unfortunately Essie Underwood was aware of that and infuriated him.

number of years. And part of the information at least it was able to provide too, was confirmation that Elsie Underwood was the person that shot at the bedroom at Jason. And luckily you say that, luckily they just moved the rearrange the furniture. Otherwise he might have been shot right

in the head or likely would have been shot head. Yes, and Jason always yeah, absolutely, and Jason too really held was had a lot of animosity for his mother because she brought this person into their lives and into being the person that killed his grandmother. So yes, what you do right about is that one good part of this and we'll talk about that in a minute. Is that reconciliation over time in this story between Jason and his mother? So back to this prosecution, it isn't going to happen.

How does Kay feel about that? And does it end there? In terms of her desire to have him prosecuted for her mother's murder.

But Kay was really personally offended, I think because he had not reached out to her directly, He had not called her or asked her to come by. She just finds out through a letter in the mail, and that the case is he's not going to prosecute Kay. And so Kay has had a fairly unhappy and fearful adult life.

And it's sad, it's tragic, not just because of Victor Gunnarson and her mother, but because of her strange relationship, or at least her strained relationship with her son, who I think for many years on some level blamed Kay for bringing Elsie Underwood into their lives, and of course you can understand that to some of it as well.

But until we were contacted by the investigation Discovery and the producers of the TV show Dead of Winter, until we were contacted by them asking us, me and Kay and Kay's son Jason to appear on the show and consent to an interview to discuss the case, that is the point that Kay and Jason actually sit down with

one another and talked about what happened. Of course, Jason has grown up, you know, since then and was married, and so that was the beginning of the reconciliation between he and his mother, and so all of those years before that, you know, I just really hurt for Kay and for Jason too. This Elsie Underwood took so much more from them than just those two individuals.

killed Catherine and fled. Initially he went back, and it was at one of one of those times that other people saw his car there in the in the vicinity of Catherine Miller's home. But he went back to make it appear to be a robbery. And Lisa specifically asked him, did you check Catherine? Did you check her to see if if she was breathing, if she had a pulse, And he did not inspact, He avoided looking at her.

because of Lisa and her efforts. Now, I will say that since that time Lisa, Lisa has overcome a lot of problems that she had in life, like the drug abuse and so forth. And I'm still in touch with Lisa to some degree, and she is trying to improve her life and have a better life. She's no longer in North Carolina, and I only wish her the best. I only wish her success with that, and I do appreciate what she did for us.

gotten any justice from the Colinal justice system. And she she understands to some degree the arguments, well, she she does understand the arguments about not not prosecuting Underwood for her mother's murder, but they still didn't satisfy her, you know, and probably it never would and it never would for anyone. And even even if he would prosecuted, even if he were convicted for her mother's murder, you know, it's never enough. It's never enough, because you know, the loss is so great.

this fear. You also had this apprehension. So things happened where you you grab a shotgun in your own life and you say off duty you were, you were carrying a gun as well. So this is not to be again on this is not you're not exaggerating when you're saying that this really, for many years was a fear that you experienced almost daily.

that involved a story. And I'm happy that you came on tonight and talked about the second part of this and we did have to do a recap somewhat of what had happened and who else the Underwood was and why these murders occurred in the first place. I want to thank you so much for talking about your new book,

Raging On. For those that might want to take a look at this work, can you tell us more where they might find this book and if you have a website, Facebook, Instagram, any of those kinds of things for contact.

other book outlets as well. First Degree Rage that did come out last April at twenty twenty, and Raging On was just released in July.