MURDER IN THE FOX VALLEY-Jim Ridings

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You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer.

The Nightstalker DTK.

Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.

Good Evening. The western suburbs of Chicago were being terrorized by a serial rapist and murderer in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties. Bruce Lingahl was a psychonic rapist and killer who prayed on girls and young women for almost a decade. He managed to escape detection because he did not leave his rape victims alive, but in nineteen eighty

Never was a dietitian at the local hospital. She was on her way to a gym to work out in the morning, as she always did. A man came up to her as she was locking up her bicycle. He came up and said, could you help me start my car? No, she was kind of hesitant about that, but he said, all you have to do is put your foot on the gas pedal while I worked the engine. So she

Now because he knew Bruce Lindall, and he told his partner, Officer Som that he would deal with him, and so they knocked on the door. What was the state of Bruce Lindall at that time and what happens as a result. What did they find in their search during his arrest.

Well, they found the gun that he was holding to Deborah. They found a bunch of polar Ride pictures that he had taken of her, and some other incriminating evidence. He didn't seem too from what I could tell, he didn't seem too upset of like, you know, what's this all? About, you know, especially when he saw his best friend. They took him in and booked him and he was held in the county jail.

Now tell us about his efforts to get bail and be bonded out. And what about Debra? What does she say to police concerning her ordeal and also to her sister, especially about the behavior of this person during the assault.

Debra gave a full report to the police, and she told her sister Sue, all about it and that she was basically a traumatized by her. But she was determined to go to court, even though it was very upsetting. She was going to go to court just to see that he was put away and didn't do this to any other woman.

So at the same time, she believes she tells her sister and she believes that she is safe because he's behind bars. She even moves after this rape to another location, and you write that there's even she moves closer to the hospital. She has a security guard walker to her car. So she's recovering from this ordeal, but believes that he's in jail. Meanwhile, what happens.

Now she didn't know this, but she bailed out a month after the attack in the July nineteen eight. So on October seventh, nineteen eight, she was getting off work at the hospital about nine pm and she walked through her car and was headed home. She only lived about seven blocks away and that's when she got in her car and flashed. Anybody's thought.

Now you write that there was the location where her home was, and the idea that maybe she was abducted was considered. What about the location was ideal we'll say for some sort of an abduction at that location.

Well, it was an old house divided up into a number of apartments and she parked in the back. There is the area in the back. It was not well lift, there were some bushes. Lindall was hiding in the bushes and she got out of the car headed to the apartment house. He grabbed her and you know, the details we don't know, but he killed her and he took her out to a farm field and he buried the body.

Now, tell us as you write about this Bruce Lindell, he was working as a small engines repair instructor in Caneland. Tell us a little bit more about this Bruce Lindell and what happens with police in pursuit of the missing Deborah Coleander.

Well, initially the police were told to treat this as just another missing person case, which is ridiculous because she was a couple of weeks away from going to court to testify it against this guy, and all of a sudden she vanishes. You've got to be suspicious about that. The officers were told just this is just another missing person case. She could be any place she might have taken off.

The parents, Viking an artist Coleander, are not reassured by the police whatsoever, and immediately travel to Aurora in November looking for their daughter. And they say they had little help from police, so they hire a private investigator. They do as much as they can, or they believe they can, and then there is tell us about the response what happens as a result of this missing person's case.

In their regard, police weren't telling them anything and they weren't helping them at all, and they felt police weren't even doing anything. That's what they felt. To the Beacon News to talk to me because I had done a few articles about this, and I had known Devor just very casually because the year before we both worked at local mental health hospital. I was working there undercover to find out all the details of all the abuses and

You write about also that this Karen Weeks you had spoken to her as well. As a result of that was disappearance. What did she have to say? And you write that these articles started heating up with the newspaper coverage, the case began heating up. Was were you pushing? Was there some pressure on police as a result of the articles that you were writing.

I think so, but I don't know what that amounted to. I know that eventually they put him under surveillance, which I didn't know at the time. In fact, I didn't know until this year when I did the book.

This hearing that was supposed to happen. And so the articles that you are writing in the Beacon News are being published. What kind of pressure is the media effect on Bruce Lindall and what does he do the result?

Well, I think he mostly had an impact on the court because when he came up for a preliminary hearing, his lawyer said, well, Judge, this woman didn't even care enough to show up in court. It's press charges. So we asked that the charges be dismissed. By that time, the judge and everyone else that seemed on my article she was missing. So I think the newspaper covered put pressure on the judge and the courts. No, we're not

You talk about her car being finally found February sixteenth, when a person came into the newsroom that had been following the stories and had recognized the vehicle.

Yeah, a man came up to my office and said, I think we found Debbie's car. You know, I have a walk by. It looked like it. I got being an article, and it's the same make and model and license. And I said, okay, well let's go down and look at it. So I went down to the train station parking lot with him and it was her car. And then I called the police and so pulled him to come and get it.

So I mentioned this Viking coleander. Debra's father hires a private investigator, and then that private investigator contacts you in January of nineteen eighty one. What does he tell you? And then tell us about this anonymous informant? And Byron Marshall.

Well, the private detective that he hired, talked to me in a number of occasions. I think he wanted to know what I knew, and I wanted to know what he knew. And he had told me some things that I didn't publish at the time. I put it in the book in twenty twenty two. But Matt nineteen eight he knew a couple of Chicago caps that would arrest Lindahll on a false charge and take them somewhere and beat the information out of them to where Debbie is

Write about the State's Attorney Robert Morrow, reviewing the seventy five pages of police files and met with Aurora of Police Chief Robert Brent and the Chief of Detectives Don McDonald, and all efforts to locate Deborah were conducted. There was no witness against Lindall at this case, so as you write,

What happens, Well, as far as they're chasing down, he was at one of the preliminary hearings and I knew they always snuck him in and out the back way. He didn't come in normally, so me and our staff photographer, we wanted to catch up to him. I wanted to talk to We ran down the courthouse steps, we were coming out the other way. We chased them for about a block or so, and he went into a flower shop.

You're right, there was poetic justice that this serial rapist would die from stab to by his own hand, to his growing.

Yes, sound it was poetic justice.

It's interesting too, we didn't mention that he had this girlfriend that finally realized that the kind of abusive person he really was and was trying to leave. Yet trying to leave, but she was at the home. She was asleep when apparently this attack happened, and awoke to this nightmare from some sort of sleep or some kind of drug hazed unconsciousness that she was experiencing in the room and didn't witness any of the carnage. But police had some questions for her.

Yeah, she was finally getting wise to who he was and what he was because of the newspaper coverage. So she moved out of the house and into an apartment in Neighborville. He was with her that night. He wasn't going to let her go, so she was in her bedroom with the door locked. She had been intoxicated that night, so she didn't hear what was going on. She sat up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. When she came out of the bathroom, she saw these two dead bodies on the floor. He just

So tell us, Sue Bybroan Marshall is and he called you at home to tell you that Lindall was dead. So tell us who he is and what else he had to say. And you talked to your editor, Mary Lou Bassett. So what happens with that conversation.

Well, Byron Marshall was a stockbroker in Chicago, and he also was a skydiver, and so was Lindall. So he knew he knew Lindall from the airport and he didn't like him. So once Dever disappeared, he started calling me with information about Lindall and things like that. And I don't know how he knew, but he knew before I did that Lindall was dead. He called me in the morning and said that Lyndall was dead in this apartment

You found out that you had a direct effect on Bruce Lindaw What did you find out in terms of that effect on him?

My articles exposed him to the public. Key was unknown, his name was not known. This was causing him a lot of trouble. He wants his job. Friends turned out against him. He had told the police that he felt personally threatened by me because of my newspaper. By that, he thought that I might treditable. He got some anonymous threatening letters and took those police and said he thought eyesen So I mean he was. He was kind of

So how do police proceed with this investigation?

I don't know that they did much because you know, in a way, they couldn't do much. They didn't have a body, they didn't have a witness, they didn't have evidence. They could have searched his house, they could have searched his car, which they did after he died, and found evidence here and newspaper with depor's name on it in the trunk of his car. They could have done that, but they didn't. They didn't do They didn't do a whole lot. Once the depper disappeared, now they had him

Now, let's find out what you find out with your basic your investigation. And so many people spoke to you, and you talk about that in twenty nineteen, Detective loud And speaks to you about Pamela Mauer. Let's talk about the idea that there was other victims and your research into that idea.

Well, once Lindell died, I had already done some articles about women and young young teenage girls who had gone missing, and it kind of done on me. I wonder if he had anything to do with this. So I did a couple more articles than that, and I talked to police chiefs in other towns, and it kind of all of these disappearances kind of fit the same pattern, and they kind of fit new pair. So I asked the question back in nineteen eighty one, after he died, did

You talk about the role of genetic genealogy in this as well. Further advances in DNA that helped solve the Golden State killer case. Tell us about that those advances and his relation to this, well, that's.

Kind of technical. Come up with all kinds of new technology pinpointing people and ancestry and native origin and even specific genes and specific families. And they when they compared the DNA of the chiller from nineteen seventy six to Lindell DNA that came up at the match, and they found out he's the one who killed this sixteen year old old girl in nineteen seventy six.

Tell us about the investigation into the death of Pamela Mauer, and tell us about her death.

She was sixteen and it was nineteen seventy six. She was at some friends' house and she was going to leave and walk to McDonald's and get a coke like that. So she left the house and she wasn't seen again until someone found her body alongside of the road and the next morning she had been great and strangle. The thing about that is A detective at the time was named Ken Wilbert. He went to a bunch of apartment houses in Woodridge to ask questions about people, if they

So when did they finally get the confirmation of Pamela mar and Bruce Lindall's involvement.

That wasn't until Chris Louden in the Lyle Police Department sent the DNA off to a lab and that was in late twenty nineteen.

Now, with that.

Confirmation, you you write that there was other jurisdictions obviously interested in Bruce Lindell potentially what kinds of numbers are we looking at realistically that he is suspected in being involved with murders and rapes.

It's kind of hard to tell because at least a dozen, I'm certain more. But it's hard to tell because the women went missing. In many cases their bodies have not been found, so how are you going to link there? And if they did find a body today, Lindell DNA would not be honest anymore. So, I mean, you know some people have said, you know a difarity. Well, I don't know about that, but we just don't know.

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The police and other jurisdictions cooperated with me when I when I ask questions, but they didn't court coordinate among themselves. If they had, they might have seen some of the similarities in the chases they had. As far as David Torris goes, he's kind of a question mark. He was Lindolph's best friend. They went out together all the time, they went skydiving. Now today he says he didn't know anything about but I don't know how he could not have known something was up with Linda.

In terms of his role in the investigation, you write that the reports about the crimes itself were kept from a certain detective or a certain officer, and you speculate that that certainly must have been David Torres, and for the police to not trust him with those police files sort of seems to indicate that he might have been prone to interfere on behalf of his friend.

Well, that's what Byron Marshall told me, But David Torres told me that he didn't. Yeah, the police kept the file away from them, but they were still crying.

What about a net Lazar tell us about her and her the crime perpetrated against her, and that investigation into the likelihood that Bruce Lindau was involved.

Well, I was just going to get into that. More than a year before De colly Anders attacked a Net, Lazar was walking to the friend's house and Lindall said, hey, come on over, you know. So she went over to his house. He got her to come in, he pulled a gun on her and he took to get a Bettermann attacked her in the same just the same way he did with Debbie. She might have been killed too, except she was smart. She started to flatter him and say,

You write about her undergarments not being tested versus Pamela Maurs under pants being tested forty three years later. Tell us what you write about that?

Yeah, that's another insane thing. They say, well, you know this happened like eight hours ago. The evidence on your panties would not be any good anymore, too old. And I thought, well, wait a minute, Pamela Mawer panties were still good after forty three years. Why would it be an an a net not be any good the same day. It just shows they didn't want to pursue this. And I don't know how much influenced her is at but maybe he had influence. Maybe the police just didn't want

We didn't write about Debra Coleander's remains being finally found in April twenty seventh of nineteen eighty two, and they brought in a prestigious and prominent forensic scientist who had worked on the John Wayne Gacy case, among others. What did they find? What did he find in terms of the determination of the cause of death, any other thing that might be evidentiary for police.

Well, they did not find the cause of death. There were no bullet holes, there were no stab wounds, there was no broken bones or skull or anything. So he probably just a strangled to death. That would be the quietest and least messy way of killing her behind her apartment covering that night, so there was no cause of death. But the police did look in the trunk of his car. Finally they found the pairs belonging to Debbie, so the

You right of all kinds of similar occurrences that seemed to be related to Bruce Lindau, and also that a couple of characters named Charles Nichols and Jerry Lindall his brother. What information did they give you? Were they cooperative at all?

Charles Nichols was cooperative. He was also one of Lyndall's best friends, but he eventually woke up and kind of turned against them, and he talked to me a bit. Lindall's brother, of course, would not talk.

What about Patricia Perkins you had asked to speak to her. What do you think of her role in this and the idea that she was oblivious to the things that he was up to.

I think she just she met him and fell in love with him, and they moved in. And when she went to work every day, which Lindall free to seek out women and attack them, I think she was just blind that was going on. But once the newspaper articles started about him, she was kind of waking up herself, and that's when she moved to Naperville to her own apartment.

You say that Nichols always suspected Bruce of the murders.

I think he had an idea. I think he had an idea that he was guilty of the Eventually it kind of gone.

On, you write in this book too. You titled it the Making of a Monster. Bruce was born in nineteen fifty three in Saint Charles, Illinois. His father was Jerome and his mother was Arlene, and he had three other siblings, and his parents soon divorced and he lived with his father with his brother Jerry. Tell us what you found in terms of his behavior and some events in his early life.

Well, he and his father did not get a law. They hated one another. He moved out when he was a senior in high school. And lived with a family of a friend. Some people might say, well, you know, his traumatic upbringing, the divorce and all this might might have caused this. I don't buy that for a minute. A lot of people get divorced and their kids don't turn into psychic tours. You know, this was all on him.

You did write more about David Taurus and the idea that he was more involved than anyone could ever imagine. Tell us what you wrote about the potential of his involvement.

The potential, I mean, who knows what the potential could have been. Could have been a lot, It could have been what he says. He's still alive and denying that he had anything to do with anything, and he didn't know that he was doing this. But once Lindall was dead, you know, he was asked, do you think could have been a serial killer? And he said, yeah, yeah, I do. Well, how come you didn't think that when he was alive.

But you're right about this airport and the idea that his car was seen at the airport, that he couldn't have another vehicle. What of this idea of yours?

Well, this is something I didn't know until a few months ago, before I finished the book, I had found out that the police said Lindall under surveillance they were following, and I didn't know that. And I also didn't know until I talked to a tourists this summer and he told me that it's one time when they were skydiving, and when they finished skydiving, Lindall said, you know, could you give me right home? Said okay, I will, And you know what, I'm not feeling too that, I'm just

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Now with that idea in mind, and you you write that he is suspected in so many rapes and murders that seem to have his signature and MO written all over them. What of police linking him to other murders and other rapes using as you write about the Parabon nanolabs and their breakthroughs in genetic genealogy.

Well, I know some police departments are looking into old cases, and of course they won't talk about that until they have something. But the problem with that is you have to have the DNA of the victim and the DNA of the suspect. A lot of these victims don't exist. They ad bodies were not found with the other victims. They don't have the DNA of the suspect. So I don't know what the likelihood is of solving any more gold cases. I think this was solved in twenty nineteen.

You write that you obtained the Bruce Lindell file from Aurora Police Department in twenty twenty two through the Freedom of Information Act. You wrote that it is surprisingly slim, unlike hundreds of pages from police departments in Naperville, Lislow, Woodridge, and Downer's Growth. Tell us what your deduction is. Your conclusion is in terms of this investigation by Aurora Police department.

Well, there's a lot that I know that they didn't give me. One example is when they came to his house to serve the warrant for illegal news dropping and he pulled a shot down out. That report was not given to me. And I know it exists because I had it at the time nineteen eighty one and I did a story about it in ninetety one, so I know it exists, but they didn't give it to me. There has to be a file on surveillance. They didn't

Chris Louden was very vocal about his opinion about this, and he used the word cover up. Tell us what he had to say regarding that. And you also talk about police reports for Annette Lazarre in seventy nine and Deborah Coleander in nineteen eighty. Just some discrepancies that you noticed, and what did you make of that?

Well, actually both attacks were quite similar. With a net, they just totally discounted it. They didn't believer at all. With Devor, they did believer. They came and arrested them. Obviously they had them with the goods, the gun and the photographs and all that. You know, if they had surveillance on Lindahl, they should have had it. They should have especially had it on Debbie because because she was the one who would have been attacked, he could always

You have a chapter called Questions Remain What do you talk about accomplices potentially?

What do you discuss He was involved in a whole lot of folks. He had hundreds of photographs of naked women. Some looked willing, most looked either intoxicated or terrified. Now these there's too many for all of them to beat his victim. But the police said that, you know, a lot of these types of people, they will swamp photos. And he may have even been involved in the child pornography too, which you know, we don't know for certain because you know, by the time that came out, he

You write very interestingly about David Taurus, and we mentioned about having this surprisingly lack of evidence that they restored or they retained, I should say. But also a very interesting fact that you mentioned is David Torres had a key to the evidence room. Would you like to discuss that.

Yeah, he did, now he says, I didn't have that until I became the sergeant in nineteen ninety four, but I would have no cause to dispose of any evidence. But evidence was disposed of the photographs that Lindolph took of Debbie call Lander, the gun he used, and so all that's missing. And the detective Chris Loudon said, you know, you're supposed to achieve that evidence, especially when they're a homicide and it's all gone. I don't know what happened to it, but it's gone.

You're right about in the follow up about the Beacon News, the articles, the effect and also what it led to. Inadvertently or you were part of having the Pamela Mauer case salved, which led to more interest in Bruce Lindell and potentially other crimes that me he may have commit. Tell us you write about in terms of this overall effect of the Beacon News, your articles and your involvement.

Well, I think the Beacon News had a huge impact on this because if it wasn't for all these articles that I did, the chase against Diver Collander would have been dismissed at the first hearing and nothing would have been made of anything. It was the newspaper article that put his name in the public eye and people knew about him, and suddenly his neighbors, the people at the high school, they all knew about him. And that was the worst thing that could happen to a guy like that.

You're right about the broken system and the problem with rape cases inherently. Can you discuss that well.

Especially in those days, when a woman made an accusation, especially if she went to court, she was put on trial more than the attack. Right, the lawyers could ask what about your background? Do you have sex a lot? Do you? Did you ask for it? What was wearing? On the other hand, they couldn't question the suspect at all. First of all, if he declined to take the stand in his own defense, then they couldn't ask him anything.

And what do you think can be learned from this case? I mean, obviously then you're saying is more thorough police and investigation, But you also are critical of the court's decision and question how it was that the judge had no information, he didn't have a criminal record at that time with his first bail that he was released on with for four thousand dollars. But that was a crucial

Well, this is an initial attack. When he was held in jail for Jemi count Leander, he was let out on only four thousand dollars bail. I mean that's a If you look at the police report on this, which I have, it was an especially vicious attack. No judge should have well, I mean they should have said no bail.

It's incredible to the after he's bailed out, they don't notify Deborah of these conditions. Very interesting, But also when she is in October on October seventh, missing again, they can't put two and two together. In terms of suspicion.

It seems, well, this is just they bungle of this whole case. They should have told Bevy when he bailed out, They should have told when she disappeared. They were specifically told the path the told treat this like just another missing person's case, which how could anybody with any common sense think that.

You couple that with David Torus's involvement in this. At first inadvertently, and then after covertly you say that maybe this wasn't just accidental, this whole thing with the evidence missing, key to the evidence room, and also his involvement with being his best friend remarkably and owning the home.

Yeah, I can't say something I can't prove, and I can't prove that he did anything with the evidence or that he had any influence or anything like that. I just have to stay the facts and after our conclusion with.

Him, Yes, I understand. It just seems very suspicious for me the reader, and I think our audience when they listen to the facts of this case, it seems quite a mystery that not only were they not able to solve any of this, but also that all of this evidence went suspiciously missing.

Well, all I can do is state the facts, and if you can add to them two, then you can think what you want. I think it's kind of not difficult to come to a conclusion.

Absolutely. You write in the end that your stories played a small part in stopping Bruce Landel from getting away with the murder of Deborah Coleander and perhaps other women. The articles contributed to pressure Bruce Landel to make him panic and act irrationally, and he wouldn't have gotten these threatening letters which also pressured him and made him panic, if not for your incredible articles. And you also read at the very end you were also alive. You say, because Bruce Landel is dead.

Yes, I will say that my newspaper articles had a huge amount to do with him not getting away with killing Debi Talien. He would have gotten away with it without my honor. I also think it put a lot of metal press sure, in fact, Debbie's father who told me that to put a lot of metal pressure on him. And I think he acted irrationally when he was stabbing that point again. I mean, he just he just went at him. He stabbed him twenty eight times and ended

Yeah, extraordinary, ill will thank you, Thank you very much Jim Ridings for coming on and talking about Murder in the Fox Valley, the true story of serial killer Bruce Lindell. For those that might want to take a look at this and other work. Do you have a website in any social media?

Do you do? I'm on Facebook and I might say Jim Writings dot com.

Thank you very much, Jim Ritings, Murder in the Fox Valley, the True story of serial killer Bruce Lindell. It's been a fascinating interview. Thank you so much, and you have a great evening. Good night, Thank you, Dan, you too.