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You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Good evening, they watched the nineteen ninety six movie Scream over and over again. One of the boys was truly infatuated with the movie and wanted to be part of it. He, along with his two friends, lured two teenage girls to a local park in Salem, New Hampshire, late one night, where the girls were brutally murdered by being stabbed over and over again. Read how they were tracked to Michigan from New Hampshire and how they were brought finally to justice.
The book they were featuring this evening is Murder by the Bathhouse Door, The true story of the murder of two teenage girls by three boys who wanted to play Scream with my special guest, author John Tumasy welcome to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. John Toumassi, Hi Dan, how you doing, and thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Thank you so much, and congratulations on this book Murdered by the Bathhouse Door.
Thank you.
Let's talk about as you do, as you write in the book Fall nineteen eighty four, tell us your position professionally, your teaching position, and your profession police wise, law enforcement wise.
Okay, I had just been promoted to sageant in nineteen eighty three in the Sale and Police department. I was the patrol sageant on the five to one shift. I had started teaching in nineteen eighty one. I was teaching an at that time Northern Essex Community College. I started in the business department and in nineteen eighty four they had lost a couple of criminal justice instructors and asked me if I could transition to CJ. So I was
teaching two courses at Northern Essex. They were intro to Criminology and Police in a Modern Society, and I was teaching a guess I was teaching part time.
One of your lectures you spoke about was serial killers and you talked about whether they were generally sociopaths or psychopaths, where not all psychopaths are serial killers, but the thing that was a commonality was the lack of conscience, and you attributed this to Your undergraduate major was behavioral psychology at the University of New Hampshire.
That's correct. I got that in nineteen seventies and I went on to get an MBA. I've got to tie in police work. Psychology was a really good major to have, and one of the things we talked about was serial killers and sociopaths and psychopaths have a lot in common. Probably the biggest difference is a psychopath doesn't have a conscience and could be very charming and alluring. Ted Bundy
was a perfect example of that, also very intelligent. Ted was going through his law degree, and I think this was very much the case with the boys involved here, especially Eric Jellanouski.
Let's get to these three boys in this story. You take us to August nineteen ninety seven and six people living in a motel six motel room in Leominster, Massachusetts and three friends. So introduce the three friends that are there, and also the fourth Jacob Romero, and tell us the situation they had themselves there in this motel under what circumstances do they find themselves there?
These were eighteen and nineteen year old boys who didn't really have a steady job. James Grant, one of the three boys, had just lost his job for theft. He had stolen five hundred dollars and that's how they were able to afford the motel room. I think at that time Motel six was only charging thirty five or forty dollars a night. Eric Jelanouski had just gotten the army earlier that spring, and he was scheduled for advanced infantry training in September October. So they were just floating from
place to place, and in this hotel room. They had another friend who was there, Jacob Romero, had nothing to do with the murders, but a couple girls came and went too. Over those ten days they were there, and while they were there they lived off essentially theft. They would steal gasoline, they would steal food from grocery stores, and they, especially Jealanuski, were on drugs and drugs of
choice were cocaine and meth and occasionally marijuana. To come down from his highs, but he wrote other things as he watched the nineteen ninety six movie Scream over and over and over again along with Scarface, and he would he knew pretty much all the lines by hot by around the sixth seventh day, as the movie is playing, he'd be saying the lines along with the movie. The other kids watched the movie too, several times, but nowhere near as much as Jollanuski.
You write about a specific scene in the movie Scream that Eric Jelanuski especially appreciated. What was that one scene?
That was the scene when they stabbed one of their victims and tasted the blood or it made like they were tasting the blood. He wanted to do that, and at one point in the future Ducett in fact did do it. Who was the third person there? Chris Dussette, James Grant and Eric Jellanuski with the three boys.
Let's get back to this motel. They exit this motel in ten days, they run out of money and the three boys go one way and Jacob Romero another. And as you say that, Eric had watch us over and over again estimated twenty times while at the motel. Now let's get to as you write the murders Saturday, September thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven in Salem, and this is the day anyway, that Dorothy Myers was out walking her dog when she spotted a girl lying on the ground about forty feet
from the road in Salem. Tell us what is the condition of the woman that's found by police and how do police proceed?
Well, she was found at Hedgehog Pock. Hedgehog Pock has a little pawn they are called hedgehog Pawn, and it was frequented by pretty much everyone late at night. It was frequented it a lot by juveniles, young adults. And Dorothy is It's about sixty thirty in the morning. It's a chilling morning, and she's walking dog and about thirty feet off the road she sees the body of a
girl and the girl isn't moving. She didn't get any closer and looked natural to her, So she ran across the street to I believe it was Clem's Variety, and they called the police station. Two officers went down Bucky Melissa's and John Lozowski and discovered that she was in fact dead. Full lividity had set in. She was very cold, to the touch, and it was it was in a pool of blood, so it was evident it was a murder scene. They immediately secured the scene and called for
more people. In addition to the Attorney General's office in the state of New Hampshire, whenever there's a murder, the Attorney General's Office is contacted and they pretty much run or direct the investigation.
And that person's Pat Donovan, and you introduced him as this central character and this investigation and this story obviously right.
Pat used to be a prosecut for the Sale and Police Department for several years, very well liked and highly respected. From there he went on to a private practice with a friend of his, and he was originally picked for the Attorney General's position or Assistant Attorney General. He is currently sitting on the New Hampshire Supreme Court. So Pat is very highly respected and very competent.
You also introduced a state medical Examiner, Thomas Andrew, but also senior detective Paul Marshon Arrives, also Kevin Swift, along with Roger Boodeau.
Roger Boudet, that's correct.
And these guys you right, are all twenty year veteran detectives all highly decorated, and you say that. Detective Marshawan immediately decides to check out the nearby bath house on the western side of the pond, about seventy eighty yards from the body. What does he discover at the bathhouse?
That's gooret Paul has unbelievable instincts. He's by the bath house door and he he sees another body. There's a fireplace with a large hot in it, and this is where we found the body. The bonnie was not only stabbed multiple times, but looked like Potiver's head was carved in. And this turned out to be the case that Eric Jealanuski had stabbed her multiple times. This was Kimberly Parah and she was gurgling and he ended up grabbing her and bashing her head against the fireside.
High police find Marshon and Swift and the others find a fingerprint in blood. Where is this fingerprint found?
It's on her leg, Kimberly Phara's leg. What we found out that Jalanuski did later on was he physically drabbed a drag the body and it was Jealinuski's fingerprint.
Now, how do police proceed with this in terms of determining any kind of suspects other than securing this crime scene and setting in forensic and doing them usual parts of the investigation. They do, what is the first thing they do well?
They ended up securing the scene, started a search partty and the search was expanded the next day, and they didn't really find anything. However, what was interesting was they had stole stolen Kimberly's Phara's car. The three boys and two girls, Kimberly Pharre and LeeAnne Millius, along with Eric Jellanuski, James Grant and Chris Dussett I went to the park that night. They were drinking beers and they were just potty and until they decided to kill them, which was
probably shortly after midnight. We were contacted by Oxford Police. They had Kimberly's car was put out as stolen and Oxford police had already found it and then they got the hit on nc I see the National Crime Information Center. They contacted us and Roger bow Day and palmsh and once they processed the scene along with the State Police crime lab, they ended up going down to Oxford and seeing the car.
Now tell us about the state of the car. What these boys had attempted, but we might have missed that there was a discovery of a wallet at the bathhouse.
Yeah, that's correct. I'd like to say we discovered who they were by really fantastic police work, which that was there, But it was a lot of stupidity on half of the boys. On behalf of the boys. They had Eric Jellanouski's car plus Kimberly's car, and they were going to drive out to Michigan, close to the Upper Peninsula in Michigan. Chris Dussette was there originally and his mom lived there up in mantin Michigan. So when they found Kimberly's car,
the boys they tried to torture. There was a rag that was soaked in light of fluid. They stuck it in the gas tank the gas cap and lit it on fire and then took off. We were able to ascertain this later by James Grant's confession. So the car didn't burn, however, Roger bo did. They started doing a very cursory search of the car and they found a wallet in the back and the wallet belonged to Chris Ducet. They were able to track down that Chris Dussett was
from Michigan. He had a prior record. He was in he did spend some time in jail for breaking and entering and malicious damage of a high school. And from Chris's mother we were able to ascertain the other two friends, James Grant and Eric Jealanuski. As it turned out, Eric Jalanuski's mother worked at Fort Devons and we were able to get a lot of information about the three boys from her.
What did she say about the boys, what was their behavior like, what did they do when they got to her house? What did she know? What did she tell them?
What was interesting that Ericuski's mother said was Chris is a good boy, but he doesn't have a conscience, which when Mark Kavna, who was also a detective assigned to the investigation, he had interviewed jell Nuski's mother, I said, Wow, that's classic psychopath. So they made it out to Manton, Michigan, to Chris Dussette's mother and they spent the night in the car because she didn't want them in the house.
She had previously been contacted by Sale and police and County Sheriff detective Sergeant Dan O'Reilly from Michigan, and they said, you know, we're looking at your boys. We expect them to come to your house, and they're wanted for questioning in a murder of investigation. So at that point she did feed them, gave him sandwiches and food, but they had to sleep in the car that night. Early the next morning, before she got up, the boys left and
went further inland. They were looking for a house to break into.
Let's go back a second to the medical examiner's autopsy. What does he determine about the nature of the stab wounds and the killers.
This was interesting because he saw three different stab wounds. He saw the stab wounds on Kimberly's body were with a lot of anger and a lot of thrust. They went very deep. The stab wounds on Leanne's body, some of them were very superficial, more like slashes that did break the skin but didn't penetrate deep. And there were others that were deep but not as deep or as what he said was vicious as those on Kimberly's body.
So we were looking at two or three At that point we knew that we're quite possibly looking at two or three different assailants.
Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for the messages.
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Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah, in my dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have to say?
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Now back to the search for these three killers or there are three suspects, but some really good suspects. They are, so they speak to Mary Wallace and Mary Wallace tells them a few things about the motel stay and sort of the relationship that the girls have with the boys. Tell us what Mary Wallace has to say, Well.
James Grant had dated Leanne earlier in that summer. Alene had a friend from Fitchburg who she went down to visit, and James was from Fitchburg, and they went out several times, and Leanne didn't like James as much as James did. James wanted a romantic relationship, Leanne just wanted it as a friend. But it appeared that weekend when the boys were up that Friday, Leanne was attracted more to Chris Dussette and Kimberly to Eric Joellanowski.
Now soon some crime scenes or scenes related to the crime were discovered. Right about a person named Bob Abbott. He's a gas station attendant and he goes to the restroom and discovers a bloody scene. This is an andover, that's.
Correct, just south on Route ninety three from Salem.
So you say it's determined later it's lee Ane Milliss's and Kimberly Farah's blood. And now you have detectives Marshawn and Boudet on way to Oxford, Massachusetts to meet with the local police and Massachusetts State Police. And that was about the taking a look at the car and examining the car forensically tell us about the German shepherd and what this canine unit finds.
Well, along they're searching for keys and Paul Pryor to becoming a detective Palmash and he was a canine officer, so he was very aware of how canines act, particularly on a track. So they went to the woods and the canine alerted and started looking up into a tree and then put his front pause on the tree and the handle is said, now, come on, let's go, and Paul goes wait a second, he's alerding. There's something up
in the tree. So Paul climbed the tree and found the keys to Kimberly Scott that the boys had thrown in the woods.
Interesting, let's get back to the search for these boys. After they are at Deborah Brackle's place. Police estimate that they or they believe that they're still in the area. So how do they proceed and what happens and what reports do they get about the whereabouts of these boys.
Well, the boys went about a mile down the road and there's a lot of hunting and fishing camps in that area that are you know, people come and stay a week or maybe a weekend, but they're for the most part deserted. So they put up to one place and broke into it and a nighbor came out and he saw the car and the boys had broken into the place and he thought he saw people walking inside. So he knows the owner of this hunting cap and then he calls him and asks, is there's supposed to
be anyone in your place? And he goes no, So he called the county sheriffs, who responded. However, the boys had noticed that the neighbor was looking, so they left their car and they went through the woods and maybe half a mile down the road broke into another the camp.
So tell us about the moment when they are arrested and the officers are that are there and the reaction from the boys themselves.
Well, what we had was they broke into another camp and got a tip they may have been there. So Paul Mashan and Kevin Swift had flown out to Michigan and Dan they hooked up with Detective Sogeant Dan O'Reilly. So they went to the house and there was already a state trooper there, and the state trooper said, no, I checked the house and I got nothing. So Paul, again, this was a two story camp. And again Paul has
very good instincts. He's looking, he's looking at the house and all the shades are up except for one window. On the second floor, and he points that out to the other guys and he's grabs Dan O'Reilly and everyone called him raid I O'Reilly. After the personal mash. They go around the house and there's a window that's broken, and through the broken window they could reach the door knob for the door. So what they did was Kevin
Swift and Paul secured opposite corners of the house. Bou Dan O'Reilly and a couple of state troopers went in and in the room that the shade was drawn was where they found the three boys.
Right away, you say about Paul Marshawn's instincts. Right away, he thinks that he's going to take Grant with him. So they separate the three boys, and Marshawn's instinct is too to take James Grant with him, likely likely with the idea if there's going to be somebody to confess out of the three, to assess who might be that person, And Marshawn instinctively thought, James Grant.
That's correct, that's great. He had him in his car and they're on their way back to the station to get booked, and now he's telling you you could be in a lot of trouble, But why don't you guys who are going to confess? And the first one that confesses, I can't promise you anything, but chances are you'll get off a lot lighter than the other two. At that time, New Hampshire did have the death penalty. We no longer have it now.
So despite this warning that he could be in a lot of trouble for not telling the truth, they're not coming forward. First, what does James Grant initially do?
Well, like all the others, he said, he's got nothing to say. That the boys made up a story that they were telling the event that they got caught, and the story was, well, Lianne's boy Leanne had a boyfriend at the time, and the story they gave was, oh no, it wasn't us. We left the girls before midnight. They were still alive and Liann's boyfriend was supposed to come there and he's probably the one who killed both of them in a jealous rage.
So obviously they have the medical examiner's report they are doing as part of the investigation. They're speaking to a lot of people to determine what could be the motive of this incredible double murder. So what do police do with this initial interview and what are the how cooperative are Chris Ducett and Eric Jelaneuski.
Chris Ducett was the toughest one right from the get go. He gave no indication he was going to say anything or confess and that was pretty much the case. He didn't do anything. Jelanowski he went hot and cold. You know. He initially he was Okay, I've got nothing to say, and I know he's stuck to the same story. However, the boys had initially not waived extradition because they didn't realize they were going to get a lawyer in New Hampshire. But it was when it was explained to them that yeah,
you're going to get a lawyer, they waived extradition. And on the way to the airport from the county jail, raid Ira O'Reilly was driving. He and his partner were in the front seat. Grant was handcuffed in the back and he says, hey, listen. Grant is saying this, I have to come clean, and ray I says, well, don't
talk to us. What you want to do is talk to Paul Mashan actor Mashan, And he said the same Now He kept saying I want to come clean, over and over again to Mashan when he was out of earshot of the boys, and Paul said, Okay, I'm going to contact the Attorney General. I can't promise you anything, but as soon as we get to the station to sail In Police Station, we'll interview you and the Assistant Attorney General Pat Donovan can give you a deal.
Now, what was the sentence as you talked about, the death penalty was available at that time in North Hampshire. But what were the conditions for these guys to be eligible for the death penalty and what was the others? What was the sentence in New Hampshire at that time for a conviction of first degree murder.
The conviction of first degree murder at that time, you could either get the death penalty or you could get life with no chance of parole. What you need is you need some criteria in order to get the murder punishment. It would either have to be rape or it would have to be killing a cop or killing a congressman. Those were the conditions that were necessary in order to get the death penalty. And there was in an autopsy
that was performed the following day. There was no indication of rape on either girls, so they were going for life without parole. Kimberly's dad really wanted the death penalty, however, it just couldn't be done giving new Hampshire law.
Now, Grant agrees to talk and they want details of what happened, actually happened, so he's able to do that, and he gives a graphic description of what happened that night. First off, he tells about the murder weapon, where it went, and how he got it in the first place. Tell us what he said about the gaining of the murder weapon and things related to this weapon and its use that night.
Well, the murder weapon was a punch knife and essentially what it is, it's a double edged knife with a hand on it. And he found it when they were in Leanne's room at her house. The three boys and two girls were they and he motioned to Jalinowski and Jelenewski says, Jack, get the knife, and he figured he Grant figured, okay, we're going to use this knife in a robbery. He had no idea at the time that it was going to be used in the murder of the two girls.
What did James Grant say, in terms of the disposal of that weapon, you write in this book that there was an idea shared by police officers, including yourself, that they might have disposed of the knife in a hedgehog pond, and in experienced scuba diver you went and searched for that and were unsuccessful in finding that weapon in that pawn. So I guess it would be very very crucial information to find out what happened to that murder weapon. According to James Grant.
Well, what happened was the boys went to that mobile station in Andover, mass to wash up, and they didn't do a very good job of cleaning up after themselves because it was blood found all over the room. From there, one of the boys was a little familiar with Lawrence, Jeleanwski, and they drove from Andover east to Lawrence on what was called River Road. They found an industrial park right on the town line between Lawrence and Andover, and they
went behind one of the buildings. Jealanuski went into the woods. There was a path right by a basketball court. He went into the woods and he ended up wrapping the knife in a bloody T shirt and throwing it into a tree.
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U s t A Ruscious Metals dot com. Now they have the idea about the murder weapon. Again in an incredible story about the canine unit remarkably finding this knife. Tell us about that.
The story that Grant gave us was he gave us directions to the industrial park where they dumped the knife, and he said, we went behind the third or fourth building, and behind that building there was a basketball court and a brightly colored dumpster. So Fredril, detective Fredri Al got together with some Andover detectives, and they went to that industrial park and the third building on the right did in fact have a basketball court and a brightly colored dumpster.
There was a massa police canine and right by the basketball court there was a path. So the canine started on the path, good doggy, and they came to a tree and the way Freddie described it, they saw the bloody T shirt in the tree. It was a long sleeve to T shirt with one of the arms pointing down. Right under one of the arms pointing down on the ground was the murder weapon.
Part of James Grant's confession was to give the details of the double murder that night, but he also talks about the actual what Eric had said, what Chris had said, what they wanted him to do as being part of this crime, What was part of the confession in terms of his culpability and any semblance a motive of why these women, these two young girls were killed.
Well, to listen to him talk, he was pushed into it by Jalanuski in duce Set. Jealanuski killed Kimberly Farah maybe half an hour or so before Leanne was killed, and the boys came over and talked to him in Brant and Jellanowski said, this is how Leanne has to look. So they went back there and to listen to Grant's confession. He was forced into it, according to him, and he only stabbed Leanne after Ducet had stabbed her repeatedly and killed her. That was his confession.
Initially, with this confession, we know that he had been threatened with life with no parole. But what was the confession going to get him in terms of a sentence?
What was it was going to get him twenty five years in jail with the chance of parole after that.
Now, based on this you have to go through a grand jury potential indictment. We can suffice to say that they were successful in the grand jury indictments. Tell us about the grand jury indictments for all three, and before we talk about the trial itself.
All three were indicted. So the deal for Grant was, Okay, you've got to testify a trial twenty five years, as
with the chance of parole after that. Chellaneuski, his lawyer, Andrew Katrupi, who's very well respected amongst cops, and not all defense attorneys are, but he's very highly respected, was able to get Jeleanouski to confess, to make a confession, and in return for that confession he would get thirty seven years to life, but a chance of parole after thirty seven years, and he was scheduled for trial in April the following year to go before Judge Douglas Gray.
You're right that it's not completely unknown, but that a judge rejects of plea. Tell us about this rejection of that plea.
Yeah, that came as a shock to both Andrew Katrupi and Pat Donovan, and at that time Kelly this is April of the following year. Kelly Aot is on board too. She eventually became an attorney general and then a state senator in Congress in DC or anyway, they were both stunned at it about that when they gave Douglas Judge
Gray the disposition. He said he would take it under advisement, and one of the things he did was a special hearing with a probation officer who investigated Jalanowski's past, and Gray felt that Jalanouski was getting off too easy and as a result he rejected the plea Boggin.
Yeh, remarkable now you talk about this. Also, one more complication in this is that Grant's confession before this trial of Eric Jelaneuski anyway and Chris Dussette later this James Grant's confession changes in a very important way. What is the difference in what he says now and what was the reason for not telling the truth in the first place, which, as we spoke earlier, that's a big issue that could have kaiwatched this whole case.
Absolutely, it was a very dramatic issue. James Grant's trial was in July, the July after Eric Jellanowski's, and after he got his sentence and got the deal twenty five twenty five years with the chance of parole, he approached his attorney and changed his story, and the attorney contacted Pat Donovan and his how his story changed was James Grant went from saying that it wasn't Chris Duscett who stabbed her in neck, which was the cause of death,
it was me. And the reason why I didn't do it I didn't fess up to it initially was I was afraid this would squash the deal. Pat Donovan and Kelly a are As you can imagine, were really surprised about that, and they met and said, Okay, we're going to go go ahead with this anyway and we'll see what happens. But they were still fairly confident they could have gotten the conviction either without Grant's testimony.
One thing about what Judge Gray said later when he said why he disagreed with the thirty seven year to life sentence was because of the confession. Now, what we haven't spoken about is the some of the remarkable, incredible things that Eric Jellanuski says during that confession.
Uh. Yeah, he was very candid. He showed no remorse whatsoever. It was really amazing. The two people who interviewed him were a detective Max sam Pataro and Roger Baudet, and he was just nonchalant about it, Like you know, he was describing oh, a day at the beach.
You talk specifically, he said that he had dragged her away from the fireplace and left her by a door, and they said. The detective said, not bothering you much. He said no. He says, as I was dragging her away, I love the feeling of the warm, sticky blood flowing through my fingers.
Yeah. At that point, Mox s Ambataro, who was a rough and tumble kind of guy, told Roger to Roger, go get a cup of coffee, and he turned off the videotape. However, Roger was pretty smart himself. He grabbed Mock and said, Okay, I'm getting a cup of coffee, but you're coming with me. And as he's going out of the room, Jealanouski says, yeah, get me a cup too, I'm thirsty. So outside the room, Mack goes to Roger. No, Roger, I want to break his neck. He goes Roger said, Mox,
standing line, I want to do that too. Okay, So they go back in the room and turn on the video camera again and they just picked up where they left off. Unfortunately, the discontinuity in the video camera. Judge Gray had a stickler for that. It was a real stickler for that. So Pat Dunovan and both Kelly Aot felt that, you know what he maysview, there could have been some exculpatory item, some exculpatory statement that was said
when the video camera was off. So they decided not to use Grant's confession in court because he did confess and was willing to plead guilty to it. That's why they gave him thirty seven years with the chance of parole. But as we're already talked about Judge Gray through that out.
Yes, you talk about the media and this story making national news out especially with the tie in with this movie screen and it's the media had headlines like accused viewed horror film and that these two girls were killed for absolutely no reason, an incredibly senseless murder based on this was supposed to be a comedic movie exactly.
Yeah, how they talk about life imitating and that's exactly what it was. It was just now once it's over and done, it's just sad, very sad about it.
Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for these messages.
Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've gotten Lucky.
Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess ah in my dentist's office more than once.
Actually do I have to say?
Yes?
You do?
In the car before my kid's PTA meeting?
Really?
Yes?
Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky?
I never win?
And tell well, there you have it.
You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot com play for free.
Right now, are you feeling lucky?
No, we're not necessary for my long eighteen plus terms conditions to plus see what's everydagainst them?
So now we got to get to this trial. Obviously there's only Eric's trial. Tell us about Chris du Sett and Eric's trial and the plea agreements that end up in the end.
Eric's trial, we had a lot of physical evidence time to it. There was Eric's fingerprint on her leg when he dragged her. There was fingerprints on the keys, so we had a lot of good Fisco evidence. We had spatter evidence, blood spatter on his clothes that was Kimberly's, so there was a lot of time them to the crime. James Grant held up surprisingly well in court under really stiff cross examination from Andrew Katrupi Katrupy did a good job.
I know he tried to impeach his testimony. You've lied before at judge of future behavior's past behavior, you're lying now. But Grant kept us cool and goes, yeah, no, I'm really sorry about this, but happened and I got to live with it for the rest of my life.
Essentially, what they try to do is to shift the blame to James Grant and both of these trials, and that James Grant did all of the things that they had physical evidence and circumstantial evidence witness testimony to support
the prosecution's claim. The only thing they basically could do was to say that James Grant was the person, and they tried to use as much leverage as possible by the revelation by Grant that he had actually stabbed lee Ane Millius in the neck and that was the cause of death.
That is correct. A very typical defense in a murder trial is to try and place the blame on someone else. And in the three books that I wrote, a Murder at the Front Door and Murder Outside the back Door, each defendant attempted to do that and very common. But again with Jellinooski, there was just so much physical evidence. It was pretty much a no brainer. And the jury came back with a finding of guilty, and Judge Grace said, okay, life with all the chance of parole, and he instructed
the bailiffs get him out of my courtroom. And he said that were quite a bit of vehemence.
You write about a tape that was played in court and they have Eric Jieleanowski saying that I'm a funny man. Oh yeah, I could do the whole movie if you want, and he was yawning and giggling and.
Oh exactly, exactly again, absolutely no conscience and no remorse because I'm a real funny man. I'm the funniest man in the world. And he would sometimes imitate Tony Montana in scaface, like, you know, say.
Hello to my little friend Larous.
So yeah, he If anyone deserves to be in jail for life, it is he.
You talk about the jurors, this is not always typical. They were in horror, their hands on their faces over the testimony. The families of the two girls open weeping in court when they had to be subjected to the details of the murders themselves.
Yeah, it was very explicit and the crime scene photos were just brutal. There was a tremendous amount of blood. Tried not to get into that too much in the book, but it was really very difficult.
Absolutely, you talk about jury deliberations, just a few hours, five six hours to come up with their decision.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, the uh I said Pat Donovan and Kelly Aart just did a phenomenal job. Now, one of the things about Kelly Aart she went from assistant ag she went on to be the first female Attorney General in New Hampshire and all throughout her tenure she never lost a case.
Chris du said had an additional charge conspiracy to commit murder along with the first degree murder. What was that decision in court.
That they did not have as much physical evidence from Chris as Jellinowski, and so they just added that other charge and they felt with James Grant's testimony, if worse came to worse and they didn't get a guilty verdict on murder, the sspiracy also carries a very hefty fined, very hefty sentence too. So as it turned out, Ducett was found guilty and also received life in prison without a chance of parole. Should be noted that James Grant is now out on parole and living in Maine.
What he did do is almost twenty five years in prison, if not the twenty that's correct. Yeah, you talk about updates. But what we hadn't talked about was Mary Wallace and Bill Farrah, the parents of the two daughters. What happened with them in the.
End, Well, Kim and Pimberly and Leanne were really good friends and both their parents were divorced and they kind of were trying to fix them up. However, this case brought them together and they eventually got married. Bill was a member of the Elks and every year the Elks lodge and Salem Debye Salem Elks the sponsor of pool tournament, and there is the money goes towards scholarship and Kimberleon Leann's name.
Yeah, tell us more about this memorial scholarship. You talk about it. They had their first recipient in June ninety eight. But also that Detective Swift and Marshawn received a Meritorious Service Award for the countless hours and immeasurable dedication spent in the pursuit of the three murderers of lee An Milius and Kimberlief Fair.
Uh, yeah, that's correct. Both Paul and Kevin had previous year as received Officer of the Year award. That's the highest award in sale police department, and Paul received it on two occasions prior to that. So I thought they should have gotten both officers should have gotten Officer of the Year. They just did a phenomenal job from soup to nuts. But what the logic was, you know, let's burt around the wealth. We'll give them a very highward, but we'll save the Officer of the Year for someone
else right there. But you know, Paul and Kevin both now they're not looking for glorya They just want to do their job, and they both do really good jobs. It did really good jobs.
And now both back to the fate of these killers. Chris, who set behind bars, didn't stay quiet, tell us of additional charge.
You know, I say this all the time. Best judge of future behavior is past behavior, and I think it was two thousand and two Chris was got an additional ten years on his life sentence, but trafficking cocaine inside the prison and someone from outside who was supplying the cocaine she was she was arrested too.
So more than likely both do Set and jell and Owski will never see outside of a prison.
Well they yeah, hopefully they will never see the light of day. If ever two people deserve to be in prison, it is they.
You do an update as well about what happened. We mentioned it, but we mentioned it again. Patrick Donovan twenty eighteen was to serve on the New Hampshire Supreme Court.
That's correct. In writing this book, I spoke to Pat and no, he just loves being there. He loves his job, and he loves the law, and he just does a great job. And couldn't respect Pat Moore and also Kelly Aot very highly respected.
Yes, you talk about two thousand and four, she was appointed Attorney General for New Hampshire and the first and only woman to serve as a New Hampshire Attorney General.
That's correct. She went on to be as one of the senators in the House of Congress and she just currently announced in the past week that she is running now running for governor of the state.
Interesting you talked about Andrew Katrupe, He continued Premier Criminal Defense Attorney and asked he was asked to train other young attorneys. And you say he was respected by police officers and the prosecution.
He is. His office is here in Hampton, where I'm also a part time police officer, and now we'll see him every now and then, and he is still very highly respected. He's got great cases. Amount of fact, there are a couple of cases over the years that lice officers have had and they get him as their attorney. So again that's probably very high praise coming from cops on the defense attorney. Yeah.
Absolutely. You talk about Judge Douglas Gray. It was very interesting that he was also the presiding judge on the Pamela Smart trial. But you say he retired the week after this Jellanouski trial.
Yeah, yeah, he did. There was some talk of that. It kind of came somewhat as a surprise. He was talking about retiring, but after this trial he wanted to spend more time with his grandchildren and more time for himself. And I can't say I blame him.
Yeah, he did make some statement that this was among the worst cases he had presided over, or the one that affected him most.
That is correct, Yeah, that is correct. I would say that this would be a lot worse than the Pam Smott case.
You talk about Detective Paul Marshawn retiring in two thousand and six, Detective Kevin Swift in twenty eleven, and Detective Dan O'Reilly retiring in two thousand and nine. Before we end this interview, tell us about your friendship with these gentlemen.
Paul, we've been friends since we got on the police department in the early twenties. Paul, Mock and I lived together for three years. I was a bachelor for quite a while. Paul and Mock had just gone through divorces and we're still in touch. Roger Baudet, same thing. Roger lives a mile away from me here in Hampton. We get together and go golf, and I tell him a lot of times. You know, Roger, you may want to consider fishing as opposed to golf. Paul Myshan, same thing.
He lives half a mile from me here in Hampton, and we all go to Florida for at least three months in the winter time. We live within ten miles of each other in Florida, and we get together for golfing two three times a week and go off for dinner. The same amount of time, but lifelong friends. Mack Kavanaugh two, he back lives in Florida full time.
Now, absolutely, you right at the very end of this book, that's what's coming in twenty twenty four. Tell us the book that's coming in twenty twenty four.
I've started work on that, and it's going to be called Monsters at the Door, and I'm planning on two editions of it. The first one is going to deal it's going to deal with serial killers both editions. The first one is going to be two serial killers from Salem, New Hampshire. In nineteen seventy six, Aline Bowl and a cop starter broke down on the side of the road and she was killed by a Francis for Carteron, who had a sortid background and a sortid future. He was
eventually arrested and he escaped twice. He was killed in a bayroom fight in Saint Thomas eleven years after the second time he escaped. The other one is going to be on the murder of Denise Belfour that occurred in nineteen eighty seven by a fifteen year old boy who cut off pot of her breasts after he moved with her and then had sex with her and there was We ended up getting the sky and he was committed
to thirty five years in jail. And there was no doubt in my mind if we didn't arrest him, he was going to be a serial killer, because this is just an urge. I remember one time I'm having a discussion with someone who felt that pedophiles could be cured, and I said, no, that is his nature. If someone's a pedophile, that's his nature. It's just like if a law was passed then my single days, I couldn't make love to beautiful woman. If that law was passed, I
would have become a sex offender. Yeah, it is their nature and they cannot change. And then I'm going to have a third story in there on Ted Bundy, and then the second edition will be the most infamous serial killers of our time. I'm looking at Son of Sam in New York and the Boston Strangler De Salvo, Albert de Salva.
We'll be looking forward to that.
Thanks Dan, I enjoy writing them. It's great.
Yes, absolutely. I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about Murder by the Bathhouse Door, the true story of the murder of two teenage girls by three boys who wanted to play scream. Thank you so much, John Tomasi. For those that might want to find out more about your other work, do you have a website or do any social media? Tell us about that.
Yeah, I do. My website is Johntomasey dot com. And on that website I have the prologues and chapter one's from the three books Murder at the Front Door, Murder Outside the back Door in this book, and the books can be bought on Amazon, either kindo edition or paperback.
Absolutely, thank you so much. Murdered by the Bathhouse Door, the true story of the murder of two teenage girls by three boys who wanted to play screen Thank you so much for this interview, John Tomasi, and you have a great evening.
Thanks Dan YouTube.
Good night,