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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them.
Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK.
Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with Your Host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening Murderers, homicidal maniacs, serial killers, the police who put them behind bars. A mother kills her children one by one from home for spring break and never returns. Rumor has it the alligators devo devoured her body after a gang rape. A loving couple starts killing prostitutes on Sunset Strip. How many
hookers will have to die? A man electrocutes his wife. Was it murder or a sexual fetish that went wrong? For the first time ever, twelve of Rod Cackley's shocking true crime stories, previously published as ebooks and short stories, have been compiled into a single book. Read the incredible, gripping, horrific tales of people who killed at random, murdered the ones they loved, and another led by the devil, along.
With the true stories of the police who took them off the streets of London. Los Angeles, Georgia, Dianna, Florida, and Kalamazoo. Each story chronicles the vilest, bloodiest, and most heinous homicides committed by serial killers, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, fathers in law, and maybe the people you see every day. You will never look at your neighbors the same way. Again.
The book they were featuring this sevening is Murder, Twelve Shocking True Crime Stories with my special guest, journalist and author Rod Cackley. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for a green in this interview. Rod Cackley, Dan, thank you.
I appreciate the opportunity. It's good to be back. It's good to be on with you.
Thank you very much. An incredible collection, certainly, twelve shocking true crime stories. Let's get to one of the incredible stories of this twelve and this is who killed Brittany Drexel. She's seventeen years old and she disappears April twenty fifth, two thousand and nine. This is a five foot pound five foot one hundred and three pound cheerleader and soccer star.
Her home is in Rochester, New York. Tell us a little bit about her family life and the argument she has with her mother, and what this was all about, this argument over spring break. Tell us what the argument was, and tell us a little bit about the family situation that he has, the kind of person that she is. Tell us what happens over spring break.
You know, Dan, when you hear and read these true crime stories, a lot of times you think, Okay, this person was on this path. This person was on a path to murder, to be a victim. They were always in the wrong place at always the wrong time. But that's not the case with Britney Drexel. Britney Drexel, as you said, is a beautiful seventeen year old kid, five feet tall, one hundred and three pounds, high school cheerleader, played soccer in or High school in Rochester, New York.
Everything was on track for a good life for Britney Drexel. Her mom, Dawn, loved her daughter. There's no doubt about it. They were very tight. They did everything together. But then they reached a point where, you know, every teenager has to break away from the parents, there's no doubt about that. It just has to happen, And for Brittany, it happened one night when she decided that she wanted to go to spring break with her friends in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
She argued with her mother, Dawn. Her mother never thought Britney would go to Myrtle Beach. She never thought she should go to Myrtle Beach. She was afraid something would happen. It's that mother's intuition kind of a thing. They argued about it all day long. I told her, Don said, I just felt like something would happen to her. She is not that Dawn didn't trust her. She really feels I felt at the time that Brittany was a good kid, a good girl. She said. I never felt that I
could not trust her. It wasn't that she just had this feeling that something would happen to her. And you know, when you're seventeen years old alone for the very first time, you can make bad decisions. You can make the wrong decision. You cannot see danger. When you're seventeen, you're invincible. Let's face it, nothing can hurt you, right Well, it's you know so. But Dawn, she's the adult, she's the mother. It's her job to tell Brittany, no, you're too young
for this, you're not ready for this. Brittany said, Okay, finally, after a whole day of arguing, and let's say, said, nobody argues like a mother and a seventeen year old daughter. You can just imagine what the player works were like in that house. But it's a nice house. It's a happy house. They're happy people. So they put it beside them. They came to a deal. They came to an agreement. They made a deal. Brittany asked if she could go spend the night at a friend's house. Dawn said great,
you know, compromises everything in a family. She said, yeah, you can go. Britney packed a small bag and left. That was the last time Dawn ever saw her little girl. She took a little bag, not a big bag that you would think you would go to you would need to go on spring break. Just a very tiny bag. She even called. Brittany called Dawn that night after she left the house to aologize for the things that she had said in their argument and how she had acted
during the day. Yeah, Dawn said, do you want to spend a couple of nights with your friend? Go ahead. They apologized, They made up. They were best friends again, as they always had been. The problem was Britney was actually now calling from Rochester. She was already on her way to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. She was last seen alive. They were going to a place. She and her friends are going to a place called a hotel motel called the Blue Water Resort on Ocean Boulevard. That's one of
the busiest streets in Myrtle Beach. And this is jammed right now with high school kids, college kids, many of whom, like Brittany, were a long way from home, and they're out on their own for the very first time. Kids like this make mistakes of face it. This is life. Britney's mistake was venturing out alone. A surveillance camera saw her. A captured video of her leaving the hotel at eight forty five pm April twenty fifth. She's wearing a black
and white tank top, shorts, and flipflops. She takes the time to text her boyfriend, who is back home. She's not with her boyfriend. She's I'm sorry. She is with her boyfriend, but she's not with him at the time. She's telling him that she's walking back to Bar Harbor, the mitel where she and her friends were staying about a mile and a half away from the Blue Water Resort. That's a distance about eight thousand feet. So she walked that easily, right, But something goes wrong. We don't know what.
Somebody grabbed her. Perhaps she accepted a ride from someone that she shouldn't have accepted a ride from. Whatever happened, Britney was gone. You talk about her friend, I'm sorry, Go.
Ahead, sorry, You talk about her father and adopted father. Really they were very close as well, just like a regular biological father. The boyfriend contacts the family content don Soon she realizes what her daughter has done against her wishes. But now it's time not to you know, it's not for recrimination, it's to do to go into action. So what does the family do and tell us how the FBI get involved in? Why?
Sure, Down, I had no idea Britney was in any kind of trouble, But the boyfriend calls and says he's worried. So Dawn, rather than calling Myrtle Beach PD, Down, rather calls her hometown PD, the Rochester, New York Police Department, for help, so that obviously delays the search to the situation. She starts calling Brittany Brittany's boyfriend descending texts to the
girl's cell phone. Britney's not getting back to them. She she left all the clothes behind, her makeups behind at the Blue Water Resort, and so Dawn can't believe that she ran away from the Blue Water Resort on her own. But FBI agents get involved. They believed the high school junior who dreamt of becoming a nurser a cosmetologist, was abducted. That's how they got involved with this because they saw
this as a kidnapping. Britney did not take her purse, she didn't take any clothes, she didn't even take her makeup, and Dawn says she never would have gone anywhere without those three things FBI. FBI special ation in charge on this case, David Thomas, told reporters at a press conference that Britney's cell phone transmitted its last known signal from somewhere along the South Santee River between mcclellanville and Georgetown,
South Carolina, the day after she vanished. His team assured that Britney's dead, that she'd been murdered, although at the time he declined to reveal what evidence they had of the crime. He did describe the investigation as exhaustive. So I the FBI gets involved because it seems to be a kidnapping, or they believed it to be a kidnapping.
Britney's father, Chad, he adopted at me the biological daughter of his then wife down Brittany A. Chad and Don had split, but he told People magazine he needed everything he thought he could do to find the teenager. He said he was the only father that she'd ever known, so he felt like he was very close to Brittany, and Chad said after the FBI agent in charge, Thomas, told him and Dawn that their child had probably been murdered, he nearly collapsed, but he still did not give up
looking for Britney. The FBI investigation didn't reveal that Brittany was probably held against her will for several days before she died. I was shaking, Chad said. My adrenaline was going, I was sweating profusely. I lived and holding back with every bit of my might not to go and find the killer or killers who did this, one of them brought to justice. That's how he felt that day when he'd learned that Brittany had probably been murdered.
Yeah, you talk about this case going cold, despite the FBI's efforts and despite that investigation, that somewhere along near Mcclellanville on this route, that she because of the cell phone pings off the towers. And then to everyone's surprise, and really this is a surprise, as you write, seven years later, an inmate named to Kwan Brown talks to ani FBI agent. Now what does he tell that FBI agent seven years later? To everyone's surprise, Now.
He tells the story of what he claims to be a jail house confession from one of his cellmates. Now we should make the point too that they set up a tip line during this time. Rewards were offered. They did a lot, They did everything they could to try to get anything they could find out about Brittany and her disappearance. But then, like you say, all of a sudden, this guy to Kwan Brown, makes a jail house confession. He tells an FBI agent that Brittany had been inducted.
He was serving a twenty five year sentence for voluntary manslaughter. He tells the FBI he saw a sixteen year old boy sexually abusing Brittany Drexel inside and drug stash house in Mcclellanville. Now, remember this is a jail house, I said, jail house, confection. It really should be a jail house. Informant, I think because as he walked through the house, he
said this drug house to get money. To the head of the house, he said, Brittany broke away from the teenager who was abusing her and she ran out of a house. But her attacker, that he identified as Timothy to Sean Taylor, ran after Brittany, pistoled with her over the head, and then dragged her back inside the house. After Kwan says it's not the only time or even the first time that he saw Brittany. He said Timothy had bragged about picking her up in Myrtle Beach and
taking her to Mcclellanville. According to the court transcript, to Kwan said Timothy showed her off, introduced her to some friends who were there. They ended up tricking her out with other friends. This is where we're getting into the human trafficking and the forced prostitution. He offers her to them and wound up, as to Kwan put it, getting
into a human trafficking situation. He admits he never saw Brittany again after she was dragged back into the house, but he does claim that they heard two gunshots and assumed that she was killed, and he assumed that Timothy was the one who pulled the trigger, the one who had killed her. Then he said to Kwan, said Brittany's body was wrapped up in a carpenter or a rug or something like that and carried away. So he thinks his jail house confession that they're trying to shave some
time off a sentence. How reliable is this guy? These are questions the FBI is obviously asking themselves. And again they're characterizing this information as a tidbit or even second hand, but they were tips. The FBI said that it were valuable to this case. And what did they do with the body after she was rolled up in a carpet or whatever it was and carried out of the house.
The FBI agents, one of them said, several witness has said Britney's body was placed in a pit, a gator pit, so that her body could be eaten, disposed of, eaten by the alligators. Now the investigation is continuing. Obviously here the jailhouse confession brings another mother into this story, and we talked about don Drexel and what everything she went through.
Let's think about Timothy's mother, Joan Taylor, Timothy Taylor's mother to Kwan's testimony came into August hearing after a new charge had been filed against Timothy for a previous crime. Now he was doing two years probation for being a getaway driver in a twenty eleven robbery of the McDonald's restaurant. He's also now indicted in connection with the federal crime interference of interstate commerce for the involvement in that McDonald's told up. So now he's got a lot of problems
his mother. Think about what his mother is going through, her child, her son, her boy is facing all these charges and now something new comes up. Accused of kidnapping, raping, and killing a young girl of seventeen year old girl, Brittany Drexel, Timothy DeShawn talks to a TV station, WMBF News and does an interview, a long interview with Brett Davidson, a reporter there, and he claims that he never ever knew Brittany personally, never met her in person, had no
physical contact at all with Brittany. The only thing he knows about Brittany is what he's seen on TV, heard on the radio, and what the FBI had been telling him in their conversations with him, the interrogations of him. He claims and still does that he had absolutely nothing to do with this case.
You talk about his mother, you talk about his mother being outraged over the allegations to defend her son. There is some veracity to her claim in that she said this is absurd because along with to Kwan Brown's original allegations was that her husband, Deshaun Taylor's father was also involved in the gang rape of Britney Drexel.
Yeah, right, exactly. That was part of what Chuck she said. You know, he said that Timothy's father was also a part of this. Now Joe and his mother and is a church pastor. She testified in her son's defense during a bond hearing. She described him as a great kid. She said, the whole story about her son and husband kidnapping, raping and Kelly Britney was just a bunch of craziness. I mean this again, according to John at any rate, you know, this is a family that you never would
think would go down this path now again. Obviously, Timothy's had some problems with the law before the McDonald's hold up. Okay, but holding up at McDonald's restaurants, in her mind at least, is not the same as kidnapping, raping, and killing a girl. She claims that the story is that they're faced with
is just a bunch of craziness. To quote her, she says she was always a tough, disciplinarian, She took no gift from her son, never, and she repeatedly asserted that Timothy would never be involved in a crime like this. And as he said Dan, what made it even more unbelievable was her husband, who was also implicated by Ta Kwan's confession or his statement as one of those who
took part in the ganging, rape, and killing. Jones said she wanted to scream and yell when she heard the accusations because, as she put it, it's just not in our.
Nature to complicate this. And as great two crime stories are, there's always something to make you maybe even doubt somewhat your conclusions. Chad her stepfather, Drexel. He was handing out flyers again in a desperate attempt for anyone to see if they recognize his his missing daughter. And he was handing out flyers and you write about a confrontation he said he had with DeShawn Taylor. Tell us as you write, yeah.
Yeah, Timothy to Shawn Taylor. Yeah, he was handing out foers, doing anything he could. He went down to South Carolina. He's handing out flyers, talking to people, you know the usual. Have you seen this my daughter? Have you seen this girl? Have you seen her anywhere? And guess who he talked to. He talked to Timothy to Sean Taylor. Deshon Taylor was in a car with some other guys and Chad walked up and showed him the flyer and said, have you
seen her? And he said no, Timothy, Deshan Taylor said no, I have never seen her, had no idea and they had something of a confrontation between the two of them. So you know that that you know, you have to think about that too.
Yeah. Certainly what in the end was made of that out those allegations, that statement right, Also that it was complicated by the police having another motivation in terms of putting pressure on him from the original charges making a second charge connected to the robbery charge as sort of as you write, it seemed like pressure for these allegations regarding it did seem like that.
You know, we always hear stories about guys who are people who confess because it seems to them a better alternative than what could lay ahead if they faced all of the charges, you know, confessing to something relatively small or just getting it over. And so there is that too, where they're putting this additional pressure on him in an effort to force him to or convince him to confess to what happened to Dawn, or would he they get him to, you know, confess to other things. So there
was that complication too. You know, Dawn and Chad obviously they're going to life now because Dawn's body still to this day, has never been found. So you know, they saw the FBI report in June twenty sixteen. However, that really laid it out. You know, as Dawn said, imagine just having hope that your daughter is still alive and then find out that she's not and she was brutally murdered. She described it down did as a hard pill to swallow.
And what made it even worse was that her daughter, evidently, according to the FBI report had been the victim of human trafficking. Dawn said she thought that was what had happened. She really did believe in her heart of hearts that Brittany was kidnapped and was forced into a human trafficking situation. She still wants to know what happened, you know, just even if she believes that, yes, Brittany is killed, that she was kidnapped, raped, and she wants more. She wants
somebody to be convicted of this. And she you know, something that makes it even harder, I guess is that the friends Britney's friends who were with her on spring Break Bill as of July twenty sixteen, had not spoken to Dawn or the Chad and that really hurts Dawn for them to come back and not say a word. Don said something happened down there, and I'm not sure the way to connect this, but to me, she said,
I just think they knew something, Britney's friends. Could they have known something that they're keeping quiet too?
Well, we won't go too much into that, but I think that if I was one of the friends that helped to deceive the mother and again being friends, this is the kind of type. She would know her daughter's friends. That's the last person I would want to face in light of what all that happened, And of course feeling somewhat responsible since you did deceive the mother and she walked on her own and this happened. So I don't know if there's anything more, but I just feel bad
for the mother to think all of these things. The way she be tormented her and Chad for the rest of their lives is and part of the horror of this story. Let's go to another story, talking about a step daughter again. This is the deliciously dead stepdaughter Gregory Graf, a fifty four year old, and we talked about the introduction about seemingly normal people. You'll never look at your
neighbor the same. Again, let's talk about Gregory Graf, fifty four years old and his stepdaughter, Jessica Paget, thirty three years old. What happens? Where's his wife? Tell us? What happens on this date? November tenth, twenty and fifteen.
Yeah, let's back up a couple of days before then, either the eighth or the ninth, Gregory goes to a sex shop and buys sex toys, brings them back home. We would imagine then on November tenth, and he also picks up a couple of video cameras. Now, then on November tenth, he calls his stepdaughter. He's having trouble at work. Now, Gregory has an office in his home. He's having trouble with his back or his computer, and he asks Jessica to leave her job. She's working at a childcare center,
a Duck Duck Goose, a daycare center in Northampton. And he calls her and says he needs help with the computer program. Which is not unusual for a fifty four year old guy to ask a thirty three year old for help with a computer. That's not unusual at all. And we need to make the point that Gregory and Jessica got along great. I mean it was a very
happy again, this is a very happy family. Well, Jessica goes over to the house, gets into his office and sits down at his computer to try to figure out what's wrong with the program and to try to get it going for him. Where Gregory leaves the room and comes back in holding a twenty two caliber semi automatic pistol. He puts it to the back of Jessica's head, and pulls the trigger kills her dead. He drags her body into a spare bendroom, left it there for several hours. Now,
he said, well, people are still working around him. Okay, the fencing company, he still works there, Gregory dragged. Well, after everybody leaves, Gregory throws the body onto a bed and starts having sex with the corpse. He put a garbage bag over Jessica's head, recorded a video of himself on not one but two cameras having sex with the corpse, as well as using the sex toys that he purchased the day before on her dead body. He raped the court. Now this is he raped the corpse for two hours.
When he was finished, he dragged Jessica's body outside and pushed it down an embankment. God just got rid of it like that, pushed it away. Then he tried to hide it. He put some stig sober and some other debris over, and he had seven acres of property. So he grabs the body. He decides, pushing it down the ebank that isn't enough to hide it. So he buries her in leaves and some other degres. Something inside and SNAPTI said, you know he never considered. Now, this guy
is the guy who doesn't. He has never even had much of a traffic kicket, never a misdemeanor, certainly not a felony, nothing that would give you any idea that he could have anything like this going on. And oh, by the way, you asked where it was his wife at this time, Jessica's mother. She was away in Florida. She was in Florida, so he knew that she was going. He had the opportunity, you know, there was the opportunity that a criminal would look for. He had the sex toys,
he had the video. He knew he could be along with Jessica, and he knew his wife, Jessica's mother, would be away in Florida.
How does it come to the police discover Jessica's body? Where is Jessica's body? How to police discover this incredible crime?
He was pushed down an embankment and then on seven acres of property. Then he buries it with leaves and other debris. But Jessica's husband, Michael Paget, knows something's wrong because Jessica suddenly has disappeared. Everybody has a pretty good idea where she is because she told her co workers at the daycare center that she was going to her father in law's house. I'm sorry, her father, her stepfather's house, to help him with this computer program. So everyone knows
where he is. The police show up and he cracks right away. Now, this is a guy who's not used to police interrogation at all. He gives it up right away. He even draws a map to help the state police troopers find Jessica's body. It was a no brainer. I mean, he gave it up right away. He tells the police troopers at the time that afternoon when they're talking to him. Then what happened to Jessica. What he did to Jessica, in his words, was just a blur. He never meant
to hurt her. He never meant to hurt anybody Gregory. He stressed that even though he thought about sex a lot, even in his sexual fantasies, he never hurt anybody. He said, I'm not really a bad guy, he told the police troopers. He said, I just lost my mind temporarily. He was watching I'm going to go ahead. Yeah, Now he had
been watching pornography. Okay, that he doesn't shy away from that, but he said even in his sexual fantasies that were part of the pornography, and he'd been watching pornography just before he killed him. That he never fantasized about hurting anybody said, what happened was a blur. He just lost his mind temporarily. They took the jury six minutes to convict him a first degree murder and send him to prison for the rest of his life without any hope
of parole. They also convicted him of abusing Jessica's corpse, and as they led him away, the judge asked after the steps thing if he had anything to say, and Graft simply said just that I'm very sorry.
Part of the horror of this is that you say, the jury only took six minutes to make their guilty decision a first degree murder. But part of that was that the jury had to endure that video.
Oh yeah, right right. They had to watch the whole two hours. They watched the whole two hours of video that he where he's you know, raping the corpse and using the sex toys on the corpse. Yeah, so it was it was a tough This is a tough time to be on this jury. There's no doubt about that.
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And this is one called sexual killing, a shocking true crime story of love then murder, and this is Los Angeles Carol Bundy and Doug Clark, often called the Sunset Strip Killers or the Sunset Strip Slayers. Tell us a little bit about Carol Bundy before we talk about how she meets Doug Clark. Tell us a little bit about this central figure in this incredible true crime story.
To the kind of person Dan that I almost feel sorry for. Carol Bundy was sexually abused as a child by her father after her mother died. In fact, the first time that he forced her to have sex was the knife of her mother's funeral. Now her father remarries, Carol lives in foster homes. She marries three times, the first time at the age of seventeen to a fifty six year old man. Carol is short, kind of I guess dumpy, you know, not an attractive woman at all.
She's never as happy with her hair, She's nearsighted and has to wear very thick beer but I mean very thick glasses. She just is not an attractive woman and really feels bad about herself. She is looking for love in the worst way. She is looking for someone. She's looking for a man. That's what she wants, although she has played around with women too. It's not that she's bisexual as much as she just wants to love and for ever who she'll get it, take it from whoever she can get it from.
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You talk about her having after a third marriage, she had an affair with a local country singer named Jack Murray. And while listening to Jack Murray one day at this club that she would go to, she met Doug Clark and tell us a little bit about Doug Clark and sort of much different character than Carol.
Yeah, he's as handsome, he's as good looking as Carol is not. Doug Clark is the son of a retired Navy admiral turned international engineer and lived in thirty seven countries before settling in South California. After Doug left the Air Force in the late sixties, he drifted. Though he was a mechanic. He concentrated, he said, on what he described as a vocation as a sexual and being king of the one night stands, as he liked to call himself.
He ran into Carol Bundy this night at a country bar called Little Nashville's in North Hollywood and moved in with her quickly after that she was listening. They were listening to a local country singer, Jack Murray. And he really figures into this story too because Jack Murray is one of Carroll's former boyfriends Jack and that's a whole
other story too about her relationship with Jack Murray. But Doug Clark meets her and picks her up at this bar at closing time, the last call, and honestly, he said later that the reason he picked her up and took her home was that she was the last woman left. Well, there was no other reason than that. Doug is more than just someone who wants to be a sexual athlete and the king of the one night stands. He's also a killer. He turns out to be a serial killer
who prays, especially on prostitutes on the Sansett's trip. Carol finds out about this because he comes home and tells her about her. He tells her about how he killed two prostitutes. He tells her about it while he and Carol are making love one night. He tells her what it was like to kill the first prostitute, dump her body, then go back and pick up her friend because that was a witness, kill her, and make love to her corpse. And Carol said that night she and Doug had the
best sex they experienced in a week. See Carol is looking for love, Doug wants a sex slave. They would seem to be perfect for each other. Doug is in her apartment quite often. Finally he moves in with her and they become a couple. Carol, what happens to get closer? I'm sorry, so go ahead. Yeah, Carol wants to it even closer to Doug. And now Doug goes out and kills two more prostitutes. One of them is a twenty year old cooker named Exy Wilson. He gets her to
get into his car and have oral sex. They park, they do it. Done shoots her in the head, but x doesn't die easily and injures Doug. He shoots her again. Finally she's dead. He throws her body out of the car. They're in a secluded almost wooded area. At least they're secluded as you can get close to the Sunset Strip.
He throws her body out of the car, takes a honey knife out of his glove box, stritz her naked, rapes the corpse and sits on top of the body and cuts off Exi's head with his with his hunting knife. But here again, we've got a witness to take care of. He's thinking about tossing XY's head away with the rest he you know. He pushes the body in. They're in a grassy area, throws the body away, and he's got dry. He takes it to the Sunset Strip, drives into an alley,
finds a dumpster, and throws the body away there. He's going to toss Exi's head into the dumpster, but it seems like a waste of look good. He hands it in his gym bag, a nice gym, kind of expensive gym bag. He also throwing the gym bag into the dumpster. It seems to him to be a waste of a good gym bag and a waste of an excellent trophy. And from what we all know about serial killers at
least many of them. They do collect trophies. Xxy's head is a trophy to him, but first he wants to go back home and show it to Carol and tell her all about it. Because they had great sex the last time, why wouldn't they this time? But he's got a witness to take care of Exy's friend. Another hook here, another hooker, Karen Jones. Now he goes back and finds Karen, tells her that Exi is waiting for them at a motel and they're going to have a threesome. She believes him.
Money talks, goes back into that remote area though where he killed Exi, gives her a twenty to have oral sense with him. While she's earning that twenty, he shoots her in the head and kills her. So there he's got too dead now he does. He does not cut off her head, but he does throw her body away into the brushy area, takes Exsy's head back to the apartment where Carol is shows her the head, pulls the head out of the bag and shows it to her, and then has sex with Exsy's head before putting it
into the freezer of the refrigerator in the kitchen. Doug's wasted. He's had a heck of a knife, right, He's too tired to have sex with Carol, as much as he wants to. He just goes to bed. Carol, though, while she's repulsed, she's kind of fascinated by the Exsy's head in the freezer, so she takes it out of the freezer, goes into the bathroom, puts this head on the sink, gets her makeup kit, and decides she wants to make
Exsy's head prettier for Doug. Excuse me, she wants to make it prettier for Doug so that it will be a pleasant surprise for him when she wakes up. So when he wakes up, she's really turned on by this. Now this is You think Carol's a very nice person, and perhaps she was, but she is really getting into this new sex game and she thinks she's found the perfect guy, especially when Doug wigs up, comes out of the bedroom, sees what she's doing and falls in love
with XY's head. He asks her to make it look like Barbie. He wants to make the head look like Barbie cheryld does her vest look like a big the head look like a big barbie doll and Doug has sex with the head again. Not a one night stand here. Carol and Doug kept playing with Exey's head for three days. They do make up and sex, sex and makeup, make up and sex back and forth for three days, but Doug gets tired of it. They have the Severn cold head. They take it out of the freezer. Gotta get rid
of the head. Cherld goes shopping. She buys a very red or neat wooden chest to put the head in Exy Wilson's head, and they take a drive into la and try to find a place to dump the head. They do. They find a dumpster behind the Studio Sizzler restaurant they throw which is where they threw or he threw XY's body away. And they go into that same alley and toss the head away in this wooden chest. The guy driving down the alley near his apartment backs into the chest, opens it up, and pulls out Exi
Wilson's head. Now this is where the police come into the story. Obviously he calls the lapd and it's just it's so bad that they obviously know. This is a hot summer night. This is all happening in the summer of nineteen eighty in Los Angeles, which turned out to be one of the warmer summers on record in Los Angeles. Carol is really getting into this, so she decides that she should go with Doug the next time he picks up a hooker, which they do. Seventeen year old girl
by the name of Kathy. Kathy gets in the front seat. She's nervous. She's afraid, not that Doug is a killer, but she thinks Doug might be a cop. But then she looks in the backseat and sees Carol, and she figures Caroll not a cop, maybe a come scout, dead mother, maybe a PTA pros than something like that. So she gets in the car. Doug gives her forty bucks, wants oral sex. Kathy goes to work. Carol's in the back seat. Now this you might wonder, when is Carol gonna get jealous?
This is the moment when she gets jealous, and she's got a twenty two caliber pistol with her, so reaches over the back seat. She reaches over the back seat and puts one in Carol's head. Bam, puts it. Carol's with Doug at the time, right. You know, Kathy has never killed anyone. She is a nurse, so she knows what, you know, the human body looks like. But she's never actually seen somebody shot in the head. It doesn't understand
the BackFlash that you get, you know. So there's blood and there's brains in their skull flying all over their car. The inside of the windshield is coated. Doug is upset. He can't believe that she did this, Carol or Kathy.
Rather.
The girl is still moving, so Carol's got to push the gun against her head one more time and shoot her one more time. There's blood that's all over the floor. It's just a total total mess. What are they going to do? You know, Doug's afraid she's gonna flip out to begin with her I should put that in there, but Carol assures him that I'm a nurse, Doug, you don't think I've seen worse than this. They take the body to a secluded area, like Doug's done before, leave
her naked in the grass. He has sex it forced with the body before they go back home, and Carol figures that now they've got this bond, a bond that can never be broken. Carol and Doug.
Let me ask this question. This will be important later. Despite that bonds that need she had called police. What happens when she does call police that first time?
Yeah, the very first time. Now she's on the radio. She hears on the radio that a few girls have been killed. And this is the after Doug told her about the first two that he had killed the night they made love. She's driving to work and she's again on her way to a hospital and she hears this report, and she said, this is it. This is what she's
got to call the police. She calls and gets stuck on the switchboard because that radio news report that she heard had unleashed so much interest in Los Angeles from people who thought they might have seen something or had some evidence to offer. The LAPD switchboard was just overwhelmed and she never did get through. You know, she was the one who had the information that they wanted, but she was never able to get through. This is before the days of the very efficient ninety one one systems,
you know, this is before it in nineteen eighty. You know, we were really pretty backward in terms of communication back in those days.
Now, back to this murderous couple, and Carol, in her bid to have Dug all to herself, you also talk about this bizarre need that he couldn't have sex without that skull.
So yeah, so he.
Was tired of her, and despite what she tried to do for him and offered him, he was bored. So that keeping in mind, what does Carol decide to do.
Carol decides to go next door to a neighbor's house where an eleven year old girl lives. And remember that she was forced to have sex with her father. She was about eleven years old at the time. She gets this eleven year old girl and coerces her, convinces her to join she and Doug in bed. This is the only way the Doug will consent to have sex with her is if this eleven year old is in bed with them last for a while. I mean, this is
how sick these people got. I mean, I can't think of another way to put it, but this is how bad it gets. But actually it gets even worse. It gets even worse Carol. After a while, even the eleven year old doesn't work anymore. Carol knows that Doug is playing around with him on her, or rather cheating on her, she decides to go back to our favorite country singer Jack Murray for help. Remember they had a relationship way back.
When she goes to the bar and tries to get Jack to help her, she wants to talk to him. She says, let's go out in your van and talk after you get done. The van's parked in the parking lot of this bar, little Nashville bar. Jack figures that she's going to want to do something else besides just talk to him, and that'll be part of the deal as far as he's concerned. Well, she's pretty disgusted by her the attitude that he expects to have sex with her.
She wants to talk to him as a friend. She realizes now that he's not a friend, that he only sees her as a sex object. So guess what she's got in her purse? That same gun that she killed the girl with, and she puts it to Jack's head and kills him. But that's not enough. She is not enough just to shoot him in the head and kill him. She's also got a knife, a big knife in her purse. She takes it out and stabs him repeatedly in the van.
Then she parrots mimics what Doug tatter to do. She cuts off his head, puts it in a big purse and goes away. She leaves the shellcasings from the bullet in the van. She leaves Jack's body in the van on one of the hottest nights of the year in Los Angeles. And this is a Saturday night. The bar doesn't open again until Tuesday, so nobody is going to see this van for a couple of days in the hot sun. So Jack's decapitated body, shot stabbed, decapitated body.
He's going to sit in this hot van a metal oven, if you will, for several days. The smell gets soaked. Now she goes home and pulls Jack's head out of the perth, like look what I did, honey, and Doug flips out. He goes, are you crazy? Are you that dumb? You know? Carol says no, Wait, I didn't leave anything behind. The bullets are still on the head of twenty two. There's no exit. Will says yea of the shellcasings. You left the shell casings behind, You left your fingerprints behind,
You left all of that in the van. Well, while there arguing, the body is cooking in the van. The smell gets so bad that the LAPD is called and they respond with the Hazardous Materials team. That's how bad it is. They go in there, they find the body. They notice that there's some similarities to the killings of the prostitutes, but there's differences too, like, for instance, it's a man instead of a woman. And also the head cut, you know, cutting off of the head that decapitation is
really ragged compared to the other way. The other way, the way Doug did it was almost surgical, but Carol doesn't have the strength in her shoulders and her forearms don't have you to actually do the whole cut, so it's a very very ragged, ragged cut. So they know they've got probably two killers here, but they're wondering if there could be you know, some similarity. Yeah, now, well, Doug, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Carol again have felt the need to call police, and then unfortunately she was not able to be able to talk to them at all because of the snaff foo with the operator. But thus Carol still needs a friend to talk to. Jack Murray wasn't the person. She has another boyfriend ex boyfriend named Richard, and she also is a nurse. At work, So tell us, yeah, tell us the kind of stories that she tells to these people, how.
Much Richard she talks. She talks to Richard first and tells him everything. Now they're in a class together, a creative writing class at the local community college. She tells Richard everything, she lays it out. But then she realizes even Carol's got this rationality about her, says, no, wait a minute, I can't have him, but tell you. So she convinces him, But actually it was all a fantasy. That she was just laying out the plot for a new story that she wanted to write. And Richard said, okay,
I believe her. Well, now what happened was after she killed Jack, they didn't make the relationship with Doug any better. As a matter of fact, it made it worse. She was really fed up, but she had to talk to someone, like you, say, Dan, So she talked to her co workers and she told them everything. Now, she and her co workers were not friends. They did not get along at all. But you know, if you're at work and somebody starts talking gossip, you're gonna sit there and listen,
especially if it's something as sensational as this. And she laid it all out to the people at the Valley Medical Center. She did try to call police, but again she couldn't get through the switchboard operator. But after she goes out for lunch, her co workers who heard this story realize that it's more than just gossip. You know. They always wondered how this plain, punchy woman could get so many men even though she was a slut, But now this kind of wraps it all up. They've got
a serial killer in their midst. This is more than just juicy gossip. They called her LAPD, and the LAPD entered their call, and they go out and the LAPD shows up at the medical facility. They see that Carroll's gone to lunch, so they go to her house at the same time. You know, they told her the people of the Valley Medical told them about Doug, so they're going to where Doug works too. But a squad car with uniforms gets to Carroll's house first, or her apartment rather,
and then detectives will follow. Now she's got uniforms in the house, she's got detectives in the house, and she lays it all out to them. She is more than happy to talk to them to get this off of her mind. But she also, since you know, she's pretty much confessed to everybody and she has all these men in the house, she says, hey, come on in, you know, she smiles, she's happy. She offers them coffee, and then
she offers them sex. She says she'd be more than happy to have sex with any one of them or all of them together, right then and there, because she tells them she knows she's going to go to prison, probably for the rest of her life, and never have a man again. The officers of the law politely declined
in the offer. Yeah, they read her her rights, They handcuff her, They walked her out to the squad car, and you know, in the squad car, then she hears the radio talk with other cars where the police are saying they've just arrested Doug. And she sits there and smiles. She feels like he spent a good day for Carol. They found with Doug and her information, you know, just the heads, the heads of his victims were not the only trophies he had. He had panties, He had the guns.
You know, he never swapped guns. He never liked on TV the bad guy always throw the gun away. He never threw the guns away. He had two twenty five caliber Raven automatic pistols stashed in the boiler room where he worked. He had panties of his victims stashed away. Between Carol and what Carol had told the people in Valley Medical and what they learned from Jack's co workers, they got all the information they needed. They had all
the evidence they needed, the trophies, the story, everything. Then it got down to in the trial, you know, Carol versus Jack, who are you going to believe? Because Jack said it was all Carol's idea. As a matter of fact, he said, her name's Carol Bundy. She told me that Ted Bundy was her brother, or they were related at a race, you know, so you know, they're just both playing these games. Carol decides to look take for a middle class housewife role to heart, and that's how she
appears in the courtroom. She's trying to play on the sympathy of the jury. But while she's in her cell, she takes the time if she gets a penel an inmate, a guy who's in the same jail, a jail rather and does all kinds of sexual things through the mail to interest him. I mean, she never is able to turn off this need. She has this incredible thirst she has for men, for love.
Yeah, you write that she died in prison at sixty one years of age in two thousand and three. She had found religion, found god. And Doug, you say at writing you say he might be a few years ago he was still alive. He may be passed away now.
You see, you know, as far as I know, he is still alive. I double checked on that before we went to before we started recording. He is still alive in San Quentin on death row, and he says to this day he's never forgiven Carol. He says, Carrol is quote a government rated a lying bitch who you know just just you know, rated him out and he just cannot stand her. He's a lonely old man, long gray
hair and eyepatch. But he says, really it's not so terrible after all, because Doug says, I amazon kind of person, after all.
Yeah, Well, we have time for to discuss one more story out of the twelve. So let's go to Kalamazoo County Sheriff Jim Harrison, and he's driving a squad car tell us about Jason Brian Dalton and This Day tell us about Kalamazoo, Michigan and Jason Brian Dalton.
Jim, Kalamazoo, Michigan is a middle size city, well smaller, it's in the top one hundred. That's kind of a middle sized city that really has a small town attitude. It's not that everybody knows everybody, but everybody knows somebody who knows somebody. Okay, let me put it that way. In February twenty it's twenty sixteen. Jim Harrison, are Kalamazoo County Share of Sergeant, is in his car and he hears nine to one one operators are going wild. Somebody
is driving around Kalamazoo shooting people. This just does not happen in Kalamazoo, Michigan. It's halfway between Detroit and Chicago, and it has its share of time. There's no doubt about that. But something like this, I mean, what's does and what it turns out to be is Jason Dalton, an uber driver who again this is another guy who he did have a temper. People will say later that he did have a temper, need a lot of guns.
He's driving around killing people. He's shooting people, and he says he will say later that it's his app, his uber app on his iPhone, that is the devil that's telling him who to shoot and who to let live. Winds up shooting, killing six people. He kills a father and son at a car dealership. He kills four women in a van. Two other people are shot, a twenty five year old girl, a twenty five year old woman rather and a fourteen year old girl. Both of them survived,
but both of them survived with horrific injuries. The police did capture Dalton, Jason Dalton. They cornered him in downtown Kalamazoo. He gets out of the car. He says, finally it's over. He felt like he was back to reality. He said, you know that spell that France, whatever it was that had possessed him, was over. He felt like it was all done. He waved his Miranda rights and told them everything. He confessed. Now. One of the women who was shot,
a twenty five year old. She is in just her She had both legs broken by the bullets, both steamers broken left and the right steamers were broken, and she shot another time. She took three or four shots. She was just she had a carruthers was just shot terribly. She had to hide under a car and pretend to be dead while this guy was pumping bullets into her.
At the same time, children are everywhere. This was happening in the playground of an apartment complex, and so she used her body before she crawled under the car to shield the children so that they were able to run away. She survived. Both of her legs I say were broken. Her left arm was not just broken, shattered by a bullet. Another girl, Abigail cough Now she was in the car and the van with the four women who were shot Togeth. She was shot in the head. She was rushed to
a hospital in downtown Kalamazoo. Her parents came. They were shot in the van shooting. The van was parked at a cracker barrel restaurant in Kalamazoo. Ironically, Abigail's parents were at a cracker barrel restaurant in Battle Creek about an hour away. They go back into town at Kalamazoo, downtown Kalamazoo with like ninety miles an hour, racing to find out what happened to their daughter. When they get there, her daughter, Abigail is on life support. Doctors say there
is no hope. She's been shot in the head. There is no hope at all. They have her on life support. Her mother reaches out to Abigail sits beside her. She's holding her hand. They're ready to harvest the organs, and her mother is saying goodbye for the last time to her daughter. Abigail's finger twitches, her pinky finger twitches, then her other fingers start moving. They grasp and hold onto her mother's hand in just the way that they always
held hands. And then Abigail uses one finger to trace the or trace the letter B into her mother's hand. All of a sudden, her mother is alive. I mean, her daughter is alive. She was that close to death, that close to going to the operating table and having her organs donated, harvested rather and then donated, and she was alive. This is a girl who came back from the dead. Abigail coughed and she's still alive today. Life isn't easy. Her mother, Vicki, says, she's getting along as
best she can, but she's had several operations. She has a plastic plate in her head that's had to be replaced at least once. She has some metal that taking up the space of brain that she lost in the shooting. But he's alive and Jason Dalton went to trial. It was a horrific trial. This guy was just crazy in the courtroom. There's no other way to put it. I mean, outbursts like you wouldn't believe. They had to hold him down,
they had to take him out of the court. Witnesses, I mean, Tiana who was shot, just collapsed on Dan sobbing. She was scared to death of this guy. Then one day in January, he walks into the courtroom against the advice of his attorney and confesses to everything. He said, I did it. You know, I confessed. He confessed, Rather, he confessed to the whole thing. But he never said he was sorry. He never showed any remorse at all. And Carruthers after the confession in court, she posted on
social media, you at least owe everyone a reason. This isn't closure, not even close. Laurie Smith's mother of Richard Smith and Tyler Smith, the father and son who were killed at a car dealership by Jason. She said, I feel in a way that we got robbed, like he took the coward's way out. I truly believed that he wanted to save his family from knowing the details and he didn't want to stick through it. But I've never heard him say Salary, never saw a tear, and I feel we got robbed.
Yeah. The more interesting aspects of this, besides this incredible story you mentioned regarding person that came back to life, was also that as an Uber driver, this Jason Brian Dalton had picked up a guy named Matt Mellan and luckily this person was dropped off. So again with the police, it's a similar story. What does he do regarding the police and what's the police reaction to his story?
Yeah, Matt Mellan, he said Jason was driving crazy. I mean Matt Mellan was like begging, demanding, pleading to get out of the car because Jason was driving over curbs, he was driving making you Terrence, He's just going nuts in the car, and Matt said, you've got to let me out, just let me out. And finally he says in the app, the app did not say to him, okay, the app said to let him go. At least that was Jason's story. So he basically kicks him out of
the car. Matt starts calling the police. Now nine operators are starting to get calls because this happened after Tianaker Butthers was shot in the apartment complex parking lot or on the playground. I mean, so they're starting to get calls. But again they're saying, Okay, he didn't hurt you, right, he just was a bad driver, so you jumped out, you know, what's the crime? Sorry, but this is not a nine to one one call. You did not have
an emergency. Well, you know, thinking back, you know, twenty twenty hindsight, right, if they had only known then what they know now, maybe they could have stopped him before he went into that cracker barrel restaurant parking lot and shot those four women to death and wounded so horrifically, young Abigail cop.
You talk about the other phone calls as well. There was Tyler Smith and Tyler Smith's father Richard, was shot, but Alexis witnessed the whole thing but really was unscathed out the other thing that she called nine to one one as well. But one of the other interesting ones was another passenger and the conversation he has with Dalton tell us about that.
Yeah, they're in downtown Kalamazoo and Jason picks them up and the passenger says, now this is when everybody. Now you have to remember, this is on the radio stations, the TV. There's one TV station in town in Kalamazoo, another in Battle Creek. There's one station in Kalamazoo that's a news station, w k's ill and they're all over. Everybody's talking about this. This is again on you know, running on the crawls on the TV stream, so everybody in town knows about this guy comes out of a bar.
He called Uber because they needed a ride after having a few drinks. He opens up the door into Jason's car and it says, hey, you're not that Uber driver driving around shooting people? Are you? And Jason? You know? And luckily for this guy again, the Uber app or whatever did not tell Jason to kill him.
Yeah. Incredible. These are just four of twelve shocking true crime stories I know that you have. We covered who killed Brittany Drexel, and we covered we covered the sexual killing. Let's talk about just briefly, tell us the other stories that you have in this collection.
Okay, we have a lover's game. Now, this is another story two people. You never think what this would happen to the one guy. A guy picks up a girl, a woman, young woman. They go to a motel together for sex. They decide to play a game. What she wants to do. Her fantasy is to have him hold a gun against her head while they're having sex. He takes it's a forty five CALIBERT semi automatic. He takes the magazine out, but he forgets to take the bullet
out of the chamber. He had already wrapped one into the chamber. He forgot to take it out of the chamber. They're having sex. He pulls the trigger and shoots her in the head, kills her dead. He's busted on felony manslaughter. Then we've got the electrocuted lover. A man and a woman who well, now this is another one where you have to decide who you're going to believe. The man says that they got into electricity during sex, that it
improved their sex. Police said, now wait a minute, you know the evidence shows that you electrocuted your wife in the bathtub and then moved your body out. He was busted for that. One of my favorite stories in this book, though, is true love too late? This is a woman the story of a woman in Vienna, a well known, a well thought of business woman. She owned an ice cream problem. She's got an ex husband. He lives in her apartment even though they're divorced. She can't get him to leave. Well,
this guy has a lot of guns. She grabs one of them, walks up behind it, shoots some dead.
Problem.
What do you do with the body? Now? Again, she is somebody who's seen a lot of true crime shows on TV. Probably, She figures she'll burn the body. She drags it downstairs, out into the alley, burns the body, but only singes it. She doesn't really know. She understands now how tough it is to burn a body. What she gonna do? She drags it into a shed, gets a shansaw, cuts it up, does all that. What do you do with the body parts? She's gonna take them
down into the basement under her ice cream parlor. She but so. Then she goes through a local like do at yourself hardware store, thanks a couple of classes and how to mix cements, goes back to the shed, to the basement. Now she's got the body parts in the basement. She mixes the cement, puts the body parts in the cement, pushes it to the back of the basement. This is like an old cellar, not really a basement, but a cellar. And then she gets you know those little things you
hang from your mirror to deordorize your car. She hangs those all over the baby. She hangs those all over the basement so that the smell won't get out. Gets another guy. She gets another guy, figures this guy's cheating on her, shoots him dead. Now she's better at disposing of bodies now, so she cuts him up with a chaince off, puts him in the cement, all the body parts, and puts those body parts into the basement. So now she's got two bodies in parts and cement in her basement,
and puts another three more deodorizers up there. She meets the third guy. This is the perfect guy. This is like a Goldilocks almost in the you the three bowls of porridge. She finds the perfect guy. They are in love, and you know what else, she's pregnant. Everything's going great, but then the plumbing breaks. The plumbers have to go into the basement to fix the plumbing. Oh, she knows this is not going to end well. They find the bodies of the body parts. She runs, police find her.
You know she's in prison. She'd go into jail now. This is why I call it true love too late. Not only did she find the guy and she loves, she gave birth to a beautiful baby. She found true love. The guy's parents are raising the baby. She'll be in prison for the rest of her life. As a matter of fact, the other prisoners are a little bit afraid of her. But she found true love, just found it too late. We've also got a mother's heartbreak, the story of a guy and in a relationship with a woman
who just was wrong. Sleeping with the Devil, which is the story of two people in England. A famous story this is Ian Brady and Myra Hanley, who were killing children. Sealed with the Kill is a story of two nurses' aids in Grand Rapids, Michigan, who decided to kill their patients, elderly women. They would strangle them, smother them in bed and kill them one by one. They were trying to spell out the word murder with the initials of these people.
They're victims. They finally turned on each other though, when they actually a third woman came into, a young nurse by the name of Robin, and they both fell in love with her, and that kind of busted their little relationship apart. Then we also have Mommy deadli as a woman in Georgia, and way I like to describe this one, danias every time she and her husband Earl fought, he would run off to his gay lover Stanley, and one
of their children would die. The lady said that Martha said that really it was just bad luck, but Earl and Stanley figured it had to be something else because it happened every time they would take the kids to the hospital where they were pronounced dead. This is back in nineteen eighty again when Sid's Southern into Depth syndrome was a real big thing. The hospitals did not have computers that didn't talk to each other. They'd talk to each other what they do today, So there was nobody
saw the commonality of all of these cases. Well, Earl and Stanley refused to give up. They found a reporter at the Atlanta General Constitution who was willing to listen to them, and then they found a cop who was willing to listen to them too. Now, this cop, this became an obsession with him. He even put a cassette recorder, a voice activated to set recorder behind the tombstone of one of the dead children, figuring that Martha Ann would confess or would talk to the to talk to the children,
you know, And and that's exactly what happened. He got that from her, than grabbed her, pulled her in, and you know, she wound up confessing. But again this is true love too late as well, because actually before she was arrested, she actually did find a guy who really loved her and didn't have a boyfriend. But it was again a story of true love too late.
M you also have the devil made him do it, and we we spoke about that with dulphin right absolutely with the twelve Shocking True Crime Stories murder. You also have a website for people that might want to take a look at other work.
Yeah, right, thanks it www Rodcackley dot com. That's r O D K A c k l e y dot com. And on my blog I regularly post true crime stories.
For instance, I touched down the one. One of the most recent stories is that guy who killed Frankie Calli, the Gambino Godfather, and what happened there, And you know, it turns out that actually it seems like he killed him because they had a problem with a woman, not because he was a member of another family who was after you know, it wasn't as like a John Gottie Pulse Vestry kind of a thing. But you'll find different crime stories on my website as well as book specials
and that kind of thing. It's Rodcackley dot com.
Thank you very much, Rod, it's been a pleasure talking about your book Murder Twelve Shocking True Crime Stories. They certainly are twelve shocking true crime stories. I want to thank you very much for this interview. Hope to talk to you again soon. Thank you very much, Rod, You have a great evening.
You're welcome, Dannis. Thank you. I appreciate it as well.
Thank you. Good night.