MONSTER-C.L. Swinney

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when he got out. He had no control within the prison wall, and it drove him mad. The things had happened to him while in custody unlocked oppressed sadistic feelings within Peter and forced him to unleash a level of sexual deviancy on innocent victims in and around Dusseldorf, Germany that no one will ever forget. Young girls, women, and men would succumb to horrific attacks, including being bludgeoned by

a hammer and stabbed to death. In several instances. Peter admitted to drinking blood from his victims and needing the act of rape and murder to reach orgasm. Oddly, the man lived a double life and his love for his wife drove him to turn himself in. Had he not done so, the monster would have continued to keep the country locked in fear for many more years. The books were featuring this evening His Monster, The True story of serial killer Peter Curtin, with my special guest journalist and

author and detectives C. L. Swiney. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for a great into this interview. C L. Swinney, Hey, good morning.

name Peter Curtin kept coming up. The thing that kind of grabbed me about him was he's known as the Vampire of Dusseldorf, and that kind of piqued my interests. So that's what started it was just the title that the media had given this serial killer back when he was apprehended and when he started investigating his cases. So you know, serial killers and themselves fascinate me, but one called the Vampire of Dusseldorf really kind of caught my eye.

is hard on any of them. But Peter's environment was actually made much worse by his alcoholic and abusive father. His dad was terrible. There's no other, you know, definition that I could think of, except for he himself was a monster. So he was an alcoholic and he's abused his wife in front of the kids. He would be her. Peter would would see this, he would try to stand up to her, but the father was way too strong

and way too violent for Peter to do much. You know, when he's he's in his teenage, he's you know, he started seeing this when he's around ten, and through his young teens, he's trying to defend his mom, but doesn't work out. He ends up kind of flowing the target, if you will, of his dad's rage from his wife or from his Peter's mom to him himself. And so his dad starts physically and verbally abusing Peter. But in one particular incident when Peter was about thirteen, kind of

changed things for the family dynamic. Peter's father was actually arrested for having what they called we used to call it incest, but he Peter's father abused his own daughter and he got arrested and convicted for that. And when he left to go to prison, Peter's mom took the rest of the plan and they kind of separated and moved to Dusseldorf. So that that was the environment. So you can imagine growing up young, losing to your siblings.

You have an abusive and alcoholic father who then ends up raping his own one of his own daughters and goes to prison. So that was the home life, if you will, that Peter was exposed to.

camping trip, Peter essentially throws a kid overboard. And Peter had experienced a growth spurts, so he was a little bit bigger than the rest of the other kids in that camping trip, and he was physically stronger than all the kids, and essentially he throws this kid overboard and makes it appear as though he's trying to rescue the kid, the victim, but he ends up holding the kid down underwater and basically drowns him. So that was that had to be an indicator of things going wrong. But Peter

was very manipulative. He was already starting to learn how to manipulate people. So as that story came out, when they got down to the spot they were supposed to meet up with the adults. You know, Peter had convinced the other kid in the boat, hey, this was an accident. We tried, Yeah, yeah, we tried. He started making himself cry, and they told this story to the adults and they ended up rescuing or retrieving the body of the child victim.

But that was the first thing. So we know now that he had held the kid down and killed it and murdered this you know child or young child like he was, but he had convinced the adult that it was an accident, and that to me was the big red flag. There'd be events that follow that time, but that was the one that was like, okay, we you've got, you know, some serious issues here with this child.

into a local guy. He's a dog dog catcher, you know, decent, decent job and anale, a male, an older male, kind of not necessarily a father figure, but like maybe an older brother. And he starts hanging with this guy quite a bit. So he's not hanging with his or kids his age. He starts hanging with this dog catcher. At some point, the dog catcher starts saying, hey, won't you, you know, come with me. Maybe I'll kind of show you the the ropes if you will. Peter's yeah, yeah,

he's he's all for it. Unfortunately, this dogcatcher was an also despicable human being. His deal was he used to torture and then kill many of the animals that he would catch, and at some point he started talking about getting Peter to do so. And Peter his claim is that he resisted the temptation, if you will, to kill or torture the animals, but at some point he basically it admits to getting involved with torturing and killing the animals, but it doesn't stop there, so for me, that's that's

too much. But he continues. The dogcatcher starts showing him beastiality. So these animals they start having sex with, and again you have to sit and wonder, you know, how Peter's mind was working and how this dog catcher had convinced him to do so. But you know, we know Peter killed a child on purpose when he was a few years younger. Now he meets a dog catcher and he's he's murdering and killing these dogs and then having sex

with these animals. You know that that's a recipe for disastery, that there's no way somebody normal would do that or come of that kind of childhood, you know what I mean.

Can you tell us what that is because later we won't talk about why it's important, but people will understand why that's so important in this.

what he was saying was so fascinates everybody. He's pretty much held the court and one of the one of the things he liked to do was when he would drop a little bombshell on somebody when he was speaking. He liked the reaction. He kind of craved the reaction of people when he dropped these little bombshells and then he would add to him and every time he would

add to it, seeking more kind of attention. In this scenario, when he told the court and the people present and reminds you there was a line of people trying to get into this this trial, even even back then. He then noticed when he said beastiality, that the people in the courtroom are you know, repulsed and and and afraid and scared, and he continued with that. So what he advised the court and later the dog catcher UH testify

to and he was also arrested. Consequently, after Peter turned himself in was they would also less slight uh slice the throats of some of their animals, and for for several times the dogcatcher would mimic as though he was like sucking the blood of the neck of these these dying dogs or dead dogs, trying to convince Peter to

do it. Well, Eventually, like everything else the dogcatcher had done, he convinced Peter to give a try, and they both kind of talked about when he had that first taste of blood, Peter kind of craved it and kind of got off on it and had a sexual tie to it where he could almost ejaculate from the sense of the animal's blood. So he actually would suck the blood

from these wounds. So it was another example within that whole disgusting story of the Dogcatcher that just somebody somewhere should have known, but only people knew her were Peter and the Dogcatcher.

From a young age, once his dad was arrested and taken away, he kind of was in control of his own destiny. In his mind, he was in charge and he did what he wanted to do, and so when he got into the military world, he did not do well with having others ordering him around. He just basically was bleed. He was in charge of himself and nobody could tell him what to do, and when that became

too much, he basically deserted. So Peter left the military. Obviously, you know, when you enlist and you're involved in military, you're not allowed to do that. And Peter, Peter, he doesn't care. Laws and structure don't don't exist in Peter's mind at this point in his life. So he makes a run for it, but he's he basically doesn't go on the run. He just basically walks away. That comes back to the to the higher ups in the military.

They go look for him. He's where he said he would be, you know, kind of challenging them, like you know, what are you gonna do about it? And they pick him up and they they take him to a military prison for being a deserter, and that starts a whole new chapter of anger in Peter's mind.

So Peter thought he had it rough when he was in the military, but now he's just he's in the middle of probably the worst in his mind, what he would attest to is the worst time of his life, the worst period of his life. And when somebody says that, and you know their their history of the physical and mental abuse from his father, the losing of his siblings, the murders, you know that he committed as a child,

the bestiality and all the other stuff. And now this guy says being in custody is the worst time of his life. That's saying something, and it shows you how deeply it impacted Peter. But his statement that he gave to the court and two investigators when he turned himself in in this case was that the primary reason he became a serial killer was because every single day, every hour, and every minute he was in custody, he wanted to

make people pay for him being in custody. So he sat in those cells, figured out how he wanted to kill people who he wanted to kill, and if they ever let him out of a cell, he got in trouble. So he actually caught two more years of incarceration because he was like a you know, and that's why we used the term monster for the story. If Peter got out of his cell, he would attack or try to kill an inmate or staff member. So this was like a caged animal in this prison. And eventually he gets released.

been out and about. You know, he didn't really explain what had happened and and how his mind was working. So he's talking to his sister as an older brother would to a to his sister, but his mind's already kind of moving forward as to you know, when when is he going to start killing He's not, he has no idea ideations of killing his sister, but he's thinking about it. And then he ends up meeting a girl, which was she became an intricate part of this whole

entire case. So he needs his wife to be proposes to her quickly. She says yes, and they start, you know, they're married couple. But interestingly enough, his wife that he proposed to was also a murderer, unbeknownst to Peter. So this gal was on the altar and was supposed to get married to Osla and he no showed he left her at the altar. This lady tracks down her her fiance at the time, and kills him for leaving her

out the altar. She goes to prison, she serves her time, and then she gets released and she's out in the world and ends up meeting Peter Curtin. Can you imagine. I mean, it's kind of bizarre. You know, two murders that are on the earth and they bump into each other and they end up getting married. So it was pretty wild.

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behind Peter. He had that again, that charismatic way about him where you would want to follow this man. And so he provided for his wife. He got her a place to stay, he took care of her. I mean, he cared for her quite a bit. He loved her, There's no doubt in anybody's mind that he loved her. But he lived this second life. As he was married, or when he was married, he started collecting victims women, young girls or young women. You know that we're in

the area that he started murdering. And so he would live a life of a murderer. So he was killing women on the side, if you will. And then but when he was doing it, many of the murders were related to a sexual desire. So we talked about how he wasn't intimate with his wife. He needed that intimacy or recall it. We talked about earlier that he often needed violence to reach to get aroused and to reach in ejaculation. He needed pretty much death or ultimate control

over something to reach that. So he's not having the relations with his wife, so he's getting it from these women that he's preying upon on the streets of Dusseldorf and then murdering him and then coming home and putting a sack of food on the table and they make dinner and they hang out. So two different, extremely different ends of the spectrum.

be able to tell police. You say he stabbed her twenty four times. So tell us about these attacks before we talk about his escalation to murder.

comes to mind from Santa Cruz. I wrote about him, and he did things to try to get law enforcement's attention Edmund Kemper used to do stuff to try to get law enforcement's attention and actually called him from a payphone and turned himself in and stuff. So what I'm saying on this one with Maria was that he easily could have killed her, and he wanted he was enjoying a cat and mouse game with law enforcement. None of the victims that survived could really describe him very well.

There was obviously media sensation everywhere every newspaper was even this case from Germany spread to the United States.

a lady. You're right. Her name was Maria, and he grabs her, a whole her. He does the whole attack if you will. He stabs her numerous times. I think twenty four was the number that you had quoted, and I think that was close. But Maria actually she actually

gets away. But and what's interesting about Maria was her memory of the event was a specifically of her attacker was pretty good, and the police were excited because not that she was attacked, but that they were starting to get a little bit of a lead going for their their case. But after she explained to them what he

looked like, her attacker looked like. Unfortunately, he looked like you know, the majority of the men in that area at the time, so it was kind of like, not not that big of a league basically for law enforcement. But Maria was pretty persistent with the police about hey, you need to need to catch this guy. You need to you know, this is not good. And she was kind of kind of aggressive with law enforcement, which was good because they were kind of running in circles. They

didn't have much to go with. So that case kind of or that attack with her kind of opened things up a little bit because she would give them pieces, small pieces of her attacker. And then eventually she's like, hey, I remember meeting this guy, and she tells the story from beginning to end and actually ends up taking where police to where she thinks she was raved by this guy, which also opens up the case.

Whereas a parent, you know, you keep telling them no, you keep telling them no. But at some point you just you know, hey, okay, go go outside for a little bit, and you keep an eye on him and keep an eye on him, and you're watching him like a hawk, and then you get diverted, and then that's when fate comes through and scoops up your child or you know. It doesn't happen a lot, but that's kind of how this one went with Rosa. So her folks want her, they allow her to go out outside of

the house. Peter had already been kind of watching her from afar this. He had seen her before when he was going to work, so he was kind of like a a hunter of these these victims of his and he saw an opportunity. So Rosa being you know, a young young girl, she's like fresh out of the house. She wants to go checks the out. And if you have children, you know that they can disappear in a heartbeat.

So she she wanders off a little too far from the front of the house, and Peter was already in that area and within seconds, uh, he he sees her, scoops her up and covers her mouth so she can't talk, and then he takes her away just just a short amount away but into a brush area, and he chokes her out, chokes her unconscious.

control of this this victim and what he needed. But he had an orgasm after he was attacking her, basically, and when he stabbed her in the neck, he had hit an artery that wouldn't wouldn't she would have survived, not no matter if anybody had even found her at the moment it happened. But so she almost died instantly, which I don't know for for me, the whole scenario

just you know, happy that that's how it went. But he was actually this was one of the ones where this case was used in court to talk about he wasn't mentally experiencing any issues or he wasn't psychotic because he felt in this one that somebody may have seen him. So he he tries to dispose of the evidence and he ends up. He ends up having some gasoline in his pocket and he covers her and he likes her on fire. So it's one of the more gruesome murderers

that he committed. But it also showed that Peter was not crazy. He knew that there would be evidence, and he knew that police would be looking for him, and so he was trying to cover his tracks. So that was one of the more gruesome, one of the more terrible attacks that he had done in this string of attacks.

and drinking some beer and watching police. He had a strong hatred for law enforcement, which kind of stemmed from all his contacts as a youngster. He just didn't like them. They were the law, and he didn't like the law, and so a lot of hatred for them. So in this particular incident, he actually goes across the street and starts drinking beer and watches how this whole discovery of

this young victim plays out. At one point, uh he he he starts playing like a little cat's mouth game with what he perceived to be a rookie officer and ends up having an actual discussion with an officer just right outside the crime scene. And uh, this officer was young, he was a rookie. They had a little bit of a discussion, and that officer was brought to court and he was just kind of stunned that he had actually been speaking to a serial killer, and the guy was

just so cool and calm. But when they separated one the officer had no idea that during that discussion Peter was thinking of killing him, but he didn't see an escape route at the time, so he let he let that fascination go. But he actually thanked the officer for his time and trying to console him about this this terrible that occurred that, of course Peter had caused. And Peter replied with, I hope you get that son of a bitch, you know, so he's toying and taunting law enforcement.

That's kind of how Peter's mind worked.

gruesome crime scenes. And it was almost all females, young girls like Rosa who was eight, and girls that were in their teens, late teens and early twenties. So nobody was really safe, and so the whole public was caught between being fearful from living in their own town to demanding answers from the police. And many times, you know,

I'm in law enforcement, and I tried. I'm big on accountability, especially you know, in twenty seventeen, it seems like that word is kind of a buzzword in law enforcement about officers should be accountable too, and I agree with that, and oftentimes I'll point out when law enforcement has done things wrong and we try to work around it and learn how to do better. But in this case, the police were investigating these murders, but they had no leads.

And you have to also appreciate that we're in twenty seventeen right now. Nineteen twenties and thirties, there wasn't the same tools to investigators that we have now. They just they weren't there. So, you know, investigating a eight year old victim that's been burned and murdered behind some bushes in nineteen twenty eight, you know, is different than doing it in today's you know, twenty seventeen. So the police were upset and furious too. They had nothing to release

to the media. They had no sketches, they had no descriptions of the suspect other than they believed him to be male. So you had a community rising up saying enough's enough, and a police department and investigators saying, we agree, but we don't know who are chasing. So the sentiment

and the anger was everywhere. The people were outraged, and in this particular incident, it was that six day period where a woman was found stab which was Maria, and then this young girl was found murdered, and the residence demand answers but they couldn't get any. And so that's where it started to get to a point where where kind of like vigilante justice was coming, where the men of the community were like, if they see anybody touching a female at all, they're just going to kill him,

you know, kill him on site. And the police like, no, we can't do that either. So that's how bad it had gotten and how frustrated the residents were. Meanwhile, Peter Curtin knew all that was happening, believed he was orchestrating it all, and could not have been happier of the complete control in his mind he had of that entire community.

enforcement picked up upon. So they call out an investigator. It's a male that's been killed, not a female, and so they start trying to piece together what happened there. But there was no connection between a male victim a cave if you will. Police assumed some type of a scuffle broke out about the fare and the costs for that ride, if you will, and so they did not think it had anything to do with these females that were being killed, and so they weren't connecting him. They

weren't in devestigating as though they were connected. But it was really kind of another contact with law enforcement and Peter though, and that was kind of kind of strange because in this case there's a lot oftentimes with serial killer cases, there are serial killer serial killers like you talked about, who come back to the scenes, who monitor what they've done and how it's being played. But Peter was actually communicating with these law enforcement people like he

would actually have conversations. He would he would try to say that he was here to help. But at this scene where he had killed this guy, he comes back, you know. We talked about that and Peter introduced himself to a detective. He knows he's a detective, he's seen him in the community before, and he talks to this

this detective about this case. That one point, Peter's considering again trying to kill this detective because he has no The only person Peter cares about is himself and then his wife, but she's so distant from the story, it's

it's kind of strange. So he wants to introduce himself to this detective and he starts telling him about what he thinks happened at this murder scene, and the detective is kind of fascinated by what Peter's telling him, and he's like not One thing that gets the detective is that Peter is examining the scene verbally with the detective in a manner of which this detective believes that Peter has some kind of law enforcement background, so he actually asked him if he was a copp or not. And

Peter's like, no, no, no, I'm not a cop. I just what I kind of you know, what I'm seeing, you know, and then he just calmly walks away. So again another run in with law enforcement at a murder scene that he had created, you know, pretty wild.

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Blue Apron a better way to cook now, Chris, we were talking about Maria hun eleven years old. Police don't even know this woman's murdered until they get a letter sent to them, to a newspaper and the police. So tell us about this incredible case and what Peter Curtin does in this.

the newspapers as he would send to the police. I kind of think of the Zodiac Killer, if you will, who who also did that quite often during his case and the change you mentioned briefly the change and weaponry and stuff and how he was doing it, And that's because he was bored. He testified that he just grew tired of stabbing. He wanted to see what happened to the his victims with rope and strangulation. You wanted to see what happened with hammer attacks and various things he

could use to murder his victims. So that tells you, you know, how far his brain was deteriorating, and how many people he had killed already, that he's getting bored now with what he's doing. So he sends a letter to the police about Maria and leads them to where her body can be found. So she was killed in August and they find it find her remains in November.

But there was an inspector, the leaf chief inspector for the Ducesdorf police name was Ernest Jannant, and he had been keeping tabs of this entire case and he had an opinion that one person was doing him. And with this Marina case, uh and some of the other cases where he was finding similar patterns in the manner in which the victims were killed. He also found a footprint

at two of the different locations for different homicides. In this this case, he believed and started convincing his coworkers that there was one person responsible for everything. And that was kind of a unique concept in the the you know, the twenties about serial killers. He was not the first, obviously serial killer, but it was just something that the police didn't want to come out openly and say because they were already dealing with the public that was was

was so fearful of their situation. But this inspector Ernst, he just started putting together like a folder and started collecting data. And it kind of started with the letters that they started getting from Maria and then little pieces of evidence. But what the evidence was good for was to convinced law enforcement that it was possibly one person doing them all.

She's kind of like bringing her sister along, and so it's a family thing for the two girls. But as the fair starting to break down and the two girls are getting ready to go home, Peter Curtin is at this fair looking for a victim, and he doesn't see these girls right away. In fact, there was other girls that cause attention, but he was being more selective at this point because he didn't want any evidence left behind. So he's floating. So you can imagine it's just for me.

It's a very eerie thought of a serial killer going to a local fair where he knew there would be hundreds of kids and searching continuously for victim one victim, and in this case he ended up getting two. So that to me is just kind of really eerie. But he ends up seeing those two girls and he starts

getting excited. And the girls are heading home, and they're using the back alleys because they know the shortcuts to get home, and Peter, who was a master at his game of murder and stalking and tracking people, he gets in front of them and materializes out of basically the shadows of one of these back alleys and talks to the to the girls, and Louise was fourteen, and he basically asked her, hey. He gives her a couple of dollars and said, hey, would you go get some cigarettes

for me? And Louise is like, you know, it does not seem to be interested in doing so, but eventually he you know, she does have some extra money in her in her hand. She knows that it's too much for the cigarettes, and she was hoping to maybe pocket the lower remaining bit of money. I mean, at least that's what Peter thought her mindset was. But she ends up going and so she leaves her sister there believing and her mind that Peter is. You know, he's an adult.

You can trust an adult, you know. Once she clears the alley way goes goes out of sight, Peter grabs Gertrude and basically has his way with her. He strangles her to death, and he made mention of that when he squeezed her neck so hard that he thought her eyes might pop from her skull. I mean, that's how a month of much of a monster Peter was.

that her daughter, her sister's not there. She's not sure what's going on. And Peter reaches out his hand and asks her, hey, did you get my cigarettes? And she's she kind of nods and before she could have any more time to try to calculate where her sister is and what kind of danger she's in. Peter grabs her and does the same thing. He chokes her out, but he then when she's unconscious, does the sexual stuff with her.

He fondles her body, he reaches orgasm, but then like his like her sister, he's the same knife to slice her throat and kills her as well. So it was a very kind of terrible situation of fate, if you will. These girls are trying to walk home after this really nice fare and they run across a serial killer. So

it was a bad, super bad scene. But this is one of the ones where the police thought, after they investigated, that they find these girls and they think that there was some bite marks near where he had sliced the throat of Gertrude, and that's was kind of furthering this whole vampire thing where they thought the suspect Navy had drank some of his victim's blood, and then Peter confirmed in court later that he had He actually had tasted her blood.

you attacked these girls. Did you attack Rosa that we talked about or even Rudolph the Cabby Strasburg said yeah, I did. And so at first police were excited because they're like, holy cow, we may have caught her killer. But one of the senior detectives at the time and they call them investigators there, he said, well, why don't you describe to me, you know, how you killed Rudolph, And he didn't really have the ability to explain it. So then he asked him, well, how did you kill Rosa?

And again he could not explain.

this girl, Rosa. They had Strasburg, who had met very dramatic mental health issues, saying that he did it, but he couldn't explain how or when or any of the you know, the nuts and bolts, if you will of these murders, police started to believe that he wasn't the killer, and eventually Strasburgh's actually sent to an insane asylum. And it was not the end of the story though for

Peter Curtin, because attacks continue to happen. Police did not believe Strosberg to be the suspect of all these murders, and it just kind of kind of took the wind, if you will, all the sales of law enforcement because they were hoping and praying that they had to kill her and Cussy. But when he was in court, when the case was investigated from Strasburg's point of view, and then he was sent to an attain asylum and attacks continued, they knew that they were on the wrong path.

I'd rather die. And you know, she had no idea obviously who she was talking to and and she had was kind of repulsed by this this guy just never met him before and demanding to have sex with her.

So she she turns him off, tells him no, turns her back to him, and Peter calmly responds, well, you know, she says I'd rather die and turns her back, and Peter says, well die then, and he attacks her with a knife again with that he always had a knife on him, but he did not kill her, and it was he didn't have an explanation totally as to why he didn't kill her. But this was an attack that

was in broad daylight. Many the other attacks, Peter had alley ways, bushes, the cover of darkness, things that he could utilize to his advantage while trying to commit murders or committee murders. This was a particular attack that was in broad daylight, and he I think what happened there was he didn't feel like he would get away with it if he stabbed her or slit her throat or something.

He was okay with the attack, but not wanting to get a murder with this particular incident, so he did not kill her or finish the job if you will. But again, she's found, please show up. She's found, and she tells police she doesn't know who the guy is, and she describes an attractive male adult same height and weight and hair color is ninety nine percent of the people in the community. And again police were furious because

they had no leads. But this was the one that pushed the residents signed to the boiling point where they were at the law enforcement headquarters. They were tracking down officers on the street and demanding what are you doing about these attacks? I mean, the police were in a spot where they were getting close to losing any control that they had of that town and what was left

of the minimal amount of control they had. Because the residents with this particular attack, specifically another female, but this one being in broad daylight, just that was it. Everybody was on edge. Everybody demanded answers, and then it was kind of like, imagine a community just kind of walking on eggshells but really close to exploding, and that's where they were after that attack.

wouldn't allow their children outside. Then there was one month of no killing, and then you talk about October twelfth, nineteen nineteen twenty nine, Elizabeth Dorry eleven years old. We have to just unfortunately to skip ahead to be able to take advantage of this only ninety minutes talking about this. But what is the You talk about the case that where a woman escapes Peter Curtin, but then she writes

a letter to her friend. So tell us about this event that slowly, or at least a lot more quickly than it has happened, leads to Peter's demise.

looking for jobs. She's kind of unemployed, so she's trying to find a job and again, you know, his fate would have it, she bumps into Peter Curtain at the train station, and you know, he immediately is attracted to her. He immediately decides that he is going to probably try to seduce her and kill her. But Maria has a sense about her over the months and years of these attacks that this guy seems a little bit off. She was the only one to have that hesitation, and so

she she's looking at this guy. He's being kind to her, and but she's she's nervous. So she's in her mind thinking is this the is this the vampire? And she's like, no, this this man that she's talking to at the time, who we don't know who he is in the story yet, but he's like, hey, there's nothing to be afraid of. He's trying to you know, trying to convince her to go with him. Right, Well, another man kind of comes out of the shadows and basically asked Maria, hey, is

this man bothering you? And Maria is like yeah, and and she kind of eyes the second man, but she's kind of like hinting what's her eyes and looking over at the first man, saying to this second uh, you know man, that this uh, this, this guy's bothering me. And so the second the second man, uh looks at the first and there's some words are exchanged, and very easily, the second man has convinced the first man he needs to leave. And so this man, the second man, becomes

to the hero if you will. Well, that second man was Peter Curtin. So you can imagine the first man was looking to you know, the first guy was probably a bum and probably a disgusting person, but nothing in comparison to uh, to the first or the second guy, which ends up being Peter Curtin. So they you know, obviously, Peter's like, hey, you know, sorry about that, and maybe I can help you out. Where do you need to go? What's going on? And he starts, you know, working with

with her. She's trying to get to a certain location. Peter's like, I know that's that you know, let me let me take you there. Unfortunately, he kind of diverts and takes her out into the woods. This this girl Marie is like, oh, now I'm in another croppy situation, if you will. And Peter's like, hey, you know, basically, hey can I can I have you mean? Meaning can

he have sex with her? He's attracted to her as well, and she basically doesn't want to have sex, but he forces upon himself on her and rapes her out into the out in the woods. He thought basically that was his payment for rescuing her. That's kind of what he would talk about in court. But he so so now she's stuck. She's with this guy who has just raped her. She's just this young girl looking for a job, if you will. And he he then takes her like hey,

he feels bad, kind of takes her back to his place. Well, he takes her back to a place that nobody knew about in this story, which was like his second part of his second life. So he's still during this whole time, he's still married with his his wife, but he had this little flat, if you will, where he was doing stuff that you know, nobody wants to talk about. So he lets her go. Maria's she's let go. She she

was raped by him, but let go. Well, she Maria writes a letter and tells her friend about everything that happened and describes it in great detail. But this this girl that she wrote the letter to takes it to the police right away, like, hey, my friend's been raped. This is where it went and the whole details. Well, police spent a lot of effort because they feel like it's it could be related to this this vampire case. So they go searching for Maria. And that's when Maria

is like, hey, this did happen. I'll show you where it happened. Not the woods, but I'll show you the the the flat or the apartment of where it occurred. And they she takes them there. They get into the house without a warrant, which you know today would be all bad, but back then that's how it worked. And as their police are looking around that flat, Maria and

Peter across paths. So Peter, unbeknownst to him, he comes back to his flat after being out and about doing his own thing, he sees the inspectors sees Maria, and he just turns and walks away. Maria is so struck that she can't even talk. Eventually she's able to communicate and get out voice because she's so scared of this guy and tells the inspector, Hey, he's just you know, my attacker, that guy he just ran down the stairs. Well, Peter was really gifted at escape and he just disappears.

So they were close, police were really close. But now they have this flat, They have kings in that flat that can help identify them who the who they believe the vampire is. And then that broke the case wide open. That was the key to the case was Peter firmly believing that his identity was done, that the police now knew who the vampire or the ducid or vampire, whatever you wanted to call him was, and it caused him great concern, so he had to go talk to his wife.

think you should. I think we should, you know, commit suicide. I think we should just stop.

I'm going to be killed for my crimes. I know that I'll be killed, So you know, can you do this? And she takes a couple of days. The police are scrambling trying to figure out who this guy is. They have their strongest leads, and meanwhile he's trying to convince his wife to turn him in. Eventually he convinces the

wife to turn him in. She goes down to the police station says, hey, you know, my husband, Peter Curtain is the vampire killer because in the course of trying to convince her to turn him in, he has to give up everything and he confesses every crime that he did to his wife. So she's now like, holy crud, Wow, he is the guy. So she says, hey, Peter will be tomorrow at church. Uh, you know, send a lot of people and he will turn himself in and lo and behold. The next day, they police set up around

the church. He's supposed to be there at three o'clock, nothing happens. Uh, they think they think it was three o'clock, but it turns out that their watches are off a little bit because precisely at three o'clock. They described it as a pleasant looking man just strolls into the church and everybody's you know, staring at him, and he kind of winks at them and says, hey, there's no need

to be afraid. And it turns out that was how the case broke out, was Peter convinced his wife to turn him in and she was going to get the reward money. So it was pretty pretty, uh, pretty interesting how this thing played out.

write a book about interviews with Curtin. So, as you write in the book, what does Carl Berg get to hear and what does Curtin tell Carl Berg.

What Carl's trying to do is determine He's already convinced himself that there's some type of psychological issue or mental health issue with Peter, and so he's trying to get enough data, if you will, from his interviews to prove to the court that Peter's crazy, if you will. And Peter catches on to what he's trying to do and kind of toys with him for a while, but eventually

he convinces, you know, Carl that he's not crazy. That he chose to do this stuff on his on his own accord, and there was nothing psychologically wrong with him, which was kind of a shocker for Carl for that, for that time frame, for what had everything that Peter had done to just do it because he just just because, you know, the answer was just because you know, because he was mad that he was he was incarcerated for fleeing from the military. It just didn't sit well with Carl.

So it was it stretched Carl's understanding of humans and it was kind of an interesting case for him as well.

And so he would at length go into detail each murder and confess, you know, to everything that he had done and how he toyed with law enforcement and why he killed each one and how he killed each one, and you know, it took ten days for him to describe in great detail what he had done or this

this killing spree. So it was it was you can't really put a title on how the courtroom was because it was the first time somebody loved his nature would talk about it openly in court and with such great detail. But what really upset the people in the courtroom was he appeared giddy, He was happy. He enjoyed telling everybody how he had killed these people's community members, friends, families, and relatives. So the public was sensationalized by what was

going on. But they also are very, very angry and could not wait for the judge to find him guilty and have Peter be exposed to the guillotine. So he went from ruling the courtroom to everyone in the courtroom wanted to kill them themselves. It kind of because of his his attitude and this lase fare of yeah, I killed all your friends and family, so what, So it kind of backfired for Peter a little bit.

You know, if you can say that in court, you know, he just basically told him to be quiet, remain quiet. And Peter just truckled and kept on going. You know, he didn't care. And he was in a cage environment where they couldn't just get into that cage quickly and they couldn't cover him up, they couldn't cover his mouth,

and so he just kept on going. But his when he started talking about other killers and how he was hoping to reach the same numbers of some of these other killers in the history, the judge just basically demanded that, you know, stop that, you know, stop these remarks, he said, you know, because Peter was going down the line of saying something along the lines of man he called it, and Honting, but he was kind of glorifying a case

the doctor Wolf and the woman. He called it, the socialist doctors, and they were accused of killing or through abortions, over five hundred babies. And Peter was getting excited and aroused talking about the murders and the death and the judges.

he's looking for people to rob. And then you tell about a ten year old girl Peter Klein's daughter Christine, tell us about this and tell us why you think that it was such a long time between murders, which is again very very unusual.

in there to kill anybody. But he saw this young girl, she was ten, and in the course of doing his burglary, in trying to steal stuff from people in this establishment, he stumbled upon her and he just snapped something about the something. I don't know if it's from his childhood or from the scenario or if. And there was not a lot of great details about this particular case because it was from nineteen thirteen, so it's hard for me to get police reports. There was none. I was using

people's statements and recollections of incidents years later in the twenties. So, but something happened and it caused him to kill her. But during that time he did the same thing that he did later on, which was a pocket knife sliced her across the throat. But then he also had an arousal. He had a sexual arousal during that so he jack after the murder, and then he left the facility, left

the tavern. But he shows up the next day and he's across the street again at another establishment, having beers watching this whole thing unfold. And that was that was the first one. That's the first known murder. But it's similar to all the rest or many of the rest because the pocket knife was involved, the sexual stuff after the fact, and then watching the chaos unfold with law enforcement.

But then they're like, you said, huge gap. And it's strange because there are cases I have investigate other cases where there are these long gaps, and it's really hard to explain what the gaps were. But some of the gap in this particular case was his incarceration. He couldn't do serial killers. He couldn't do serial killing while in custody, so that tacked on about nine years to that gap.

So that was one of the things. The other thing was he was married, he was working in a factory, became a union leader, and he had other things preoccupying himself, and he was having sexual relations where he did not have to rape to get it. He was just meeting girls and having sex, so his sexual desires were being met. I think all those things, in conjunction with that time incarcerated meant or led to that gap in the killings. But once he started the second round, there were very

few gaps. That's when he went on his killing spree.

and he is accused and he's acquitted. But just tell us just a little bit about this, because it's just a fascinating opening.

you know, I was there, I've been around. That's my niece. Well, you know, jowny beefs with your brother. No, well we heard that you guys maybe had a fight. Oh yeah, I did have a fight. And then the police locked him into this statement and they accused him of committing the murder, which was really tragic because he didn't. We know, he didn't. He went to court and they dismissed the

charges almost immediately. But because of the dynamic of the family, he ends up the uncle who was accused of killing Christine. He ends up killing himself. He commits suicide because of the the shame, the embarrassment, the accusations, all the stuff that was thrown upon him after having just a brief fight with his brother and being arrested for the murder of his niece. So it was super terrible situation and very sad, just kind of indicative of this whole case.

There's so much sadness to it. But that's what happened.

this guy just doesn't quit. You know what kind of sick person? Asked that, and then he said he finishes us with well, that would be the pleasure to end all pleasures. So he just again he's looking for the shock and awe, you know, and he there, this is right at the moment that they're putting his head in the sack, and they said, hey, do you have any last questions or any last you know, expressions, and he

said nope. And with that they dropped the blade and his head you know, fell into the sack, the burlap sack, and that was it. I mean, it was just that simple. It was so crazy of a case and it just ended with a second or two of a key team dropping and that was it.

very much, cel Swinny. For those that might want to check out other material, to have a Facebook page, webite that you might imparts with people that be interested.