LOBSTER BOY-Fred Rosen

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The book that we're featuring this evening is Lobster Boy, The bizarre life and brutal death of Grady Styles Junior, with my special guest, investigative journalist and author Fred Rosen. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview Fred Rosen.

they'll know what we're talking about. There has been some really interesting and very well, it's beyond interesting, cutting edge programs about current injustice in America, and so with Fred rose and spearheading the investigation. So but first, let's go back in time to Lobster Boy. And before we get into this incredible story that not everyone knows, when did you write this? When was this book published? And when did you write this book? Fred Lobster Boy?

down in Tampa in Hillsborough County. Uh and and this the the person on trial was a woman named married Teresa Stiles, who had allegedly arranged for the murder of her husband, Gray Styles Junior also know this lobster Boy. And I got on the phone with my with my editor at that time at the publishing house I was working for, and I said, you're not going to believe this. And I said, uh, there's this woman and she supposedly killed her husband and he was lobster boy. I said,

isn't that a joke? And he said to me, that's your next book. I said, you're kidding. He said, no, that's your next book. And that's how I found out about it, and and that's how I got the assignment to write the book, and and and and so what happened was I got the contract. It was unusual, especially compared to today, where I got the contract pretty quickly and the next thing, you know, you know, within a couple of months. It was Halloween night of ninety three.

I was on a I went down to Florida to start investigating Wow, and I landed again on Halloween night. And I and I'll never forget this. It's not in the book. I should have put it in there, Dan, Uh. And I'm I'm driving out of the airport in Tampa and I, you know, I'm at a light and I look over and the next car I see Dracula. I said to some dude who was dressed as Dracula, and

I went, Oh my god, what's going on? And then because I realized it was Halloween, but that was sort of like the harbinger of things to come, you know. And that's how I working on it.

out this was a camp where the Giant camped. What it was was that in the nineteen forties, people who were in the Carny gravitated south during the winter. They settled in Gibsons in south of Tampa because of the weather, the Bomby weather in the summer. And the Giant was a giant. The guy who was about I don't know, seven eight feet fall something like that. You know, I made Shaquilonia looked short. And he married the world's only

within half girl. Her name was Jennie Tilmany. And I, you know, I'm going, what the heck is this about? You know, I'm there to investigate a murder case. And it got weird. Dan, it got weirder. You'd be riding around this town and you'd see things like wirewalkers, three legged you know, goats, you know, all kinds of animal oddities. You'd see little people in those days they would call midgets. You'd see all kinds of carnie freaks. It was the weirdest thing. And when you went to the post office,

the counter that they had you had two counters. One was for normal sized people and one was for little people. It was the weirdest thing. And then you'd see all of the carney trucks and things like that in the backyards. And eventually I wound up going from I had lunch at the Giants camp. I met Jeanie Tomini, the world's only living half girls. She was born with missing the lower half of her body. She married the Giant, they

had kids, wonderful human being, wonderful person. And then eventually I found my way to to the trailer where Lobster Boy had lived with his wife. Married Teresa Stiles, who in the carnival was known as the Electrified Girl because it was an illusion that was perpe that they did where she would seem to be she would sit in a chair like an electric chair, and you know, lightning bolts would come out of her fingers, that sort of thing. And at that point she was in jail because she

had already been charged with killing Grady, her husband. And I met Grady Styles the third aka Little Grady. I met his sister, Kathy Styles, who also had ecodactyle, which is the genetic condition that causes diffusing the hands and fingers. Kathy would later go on to be on the TV series Carnival as a lobster girl. And I met Mary's third husband, Midgetman. Hectter have a nice guy named Harry

Glenn Newman. And when she married Harry Glenn Newman midget Man, they had a son, Harry Glenn Newman Jr. And he became the human blockhead. You can't make this stuff up, which is a person who talents things up his nose, h to you know, only in the United States. Canada's to civilized for this stuff. But anyway, that's that's what happened. And I met these people and I and I and I basically interviewed them and I got their confidence.

you'd have to adopt. Yet the Style family decided not to do that, and so they had this this genetic condition prevailed in the Style family from one President Polk we're going back to the eighteen forties, was president up until the present, and so they continued to procreate for whatever reason. I never got into it with the family, but they decided to procreate, and the odds were in favor of the condition coming out in whatever child was

born from this family. Except there was one child in the Styles family, Donna, who did not have that condition, and that created other problems later on down the line.

fifty chance of getting it. So yep, for whatever reason. Now, for those didn't see the photo or don't get to see the photo that a little I posted on for the show description, it's interesting that the hands are then have a claw actual like a lobster claw, but just for people to know that it's right past the knee so it doesn't step into.

symbol that Leonard Meimoy brought to the table. But if you think about the you know, the the the four fingers, you know, separating I'm doing it right now, that's pretty much the way that the clause looked. And in terms of in in in Grady's case and in most instances, the condition in terms of the legs would come out where right below the knee, there's nothing else. You just have again a fusion of the bonees and and and

the flesh, et cetera, et cetera. And so as a result, people who suffer from this condition wind up living rather yes, living with with the wheelchairs so to get them around. However, and this is very important. However, because of the fact they have this condition, they are they become so powerful in their upper body that they can they can uh. I was gonna say locomotes, but there's no such word.

They could move around just on the basis walking around, you know, like like like a chimpanzee does, on their hands, and they become extremely powerful in their upper body, extremely powerful, and they are capable of doing every single thing that all of us can do, including shooting a gun, which of course will become relevant later on.

Then came Kathy, who has the same condition. He put Kathy on the stage with him at a very early age. And then after Kathy, what occurred was that he divorced to Mary Teresa Styles and he married a woman named Barbara, and he had another child with her who became who was known as Little Grady, though he would be called

his former name is Grady Styles the Third. He had the condition, and so eventually you had at one point you had three three members of the Lobster family, Grady Stiles Junior, Grady Styles the Third, and Kathy on on the platform or stage at the same time. But the kids didn't take to it the way that their dad did. But he nevertheless, he felt that that was the way to go and this was how he made his living and he did quite well with it for many, many, many many years.

platform by his dad when he was seven. He wound up growing up with people gawking at him throughout the nineteen thirties, forties and into the early fifties, and he got very smart about using what we would now turn a disability to his advantage. And so he would appear in the carny and whenever he was off stage, however, he would try to make sure that he wore gloves because he didn't give it away for nothing, and he

wound up growing up incredibly bitter about his condition. Yet he made a lot of money at it, and he also became a life mostly for most of his life, a lifelong alcoholic, and whenever he drank, he was an incredibly brutal human being to those around him. However, when he didn't drink, he was extremely charming. He was extremely likable.

And there is still people as we speak, some of whom may be listening in Gibsonton, Florida, really liked Grady a heck of a lot except but to his family, this guy was he was a piece of crap, and he was abusive physically and emotionally to his wife. He was abusive emotionally to his children. But as far as I know, and the evidence that I was able to come up with, he wasn't physically abusive to them, but he was extremely abusive in all ways to his life.

engaged with a young man. And Grady takes exception to this. He feels like she's going to be deserting him. And what happens is on her it's really very tragic. On her wedding night or wedding day, rather, she comes home after they've gone shopping for some you know, for her dress and so forth, and she's with her future husband who's seventeen.

in her arms, bleeding out on the street. And the state of Pennsylvania charges Grady with murder, and there's a trial and eventually he's found guilty, and because the judge takes pity on his condition, he gives him probation and he doesn't go to jail, and soon after Theresa well, at that point, Theresa has already divorced him, okay, or rather Grady has divorced her. Excuse me, I'm getting ahead

of myself. He's living with Barbara. But Grady gets sort of a second chance after this trial, and he turns around and starts courting his first wife Mary Teresa again, and she decides to go back with him. So, in other words, after a cold blooded murder, she decides to go back with him, allegedly because he's so charming and he's starting to pay bills and she told me all this.

By the way, we did a tremendous amount of the discussion together, and so he goes back with me, and which is sort of weird because in between can make this stuff up. Then, while Grady's married to Barbara Mary, Teresa winds up marrying midgeard Man. That was his name, Harry Glenn Newman, Sr. Wonderful human being, great guy. I loved him and he treated her wonderfully. But Teresa had problems with midget Man. She had to do a lot of thames for him because of his lack of height.

And of course this was a different period of time.

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He's a carnate guy. Everybody that I met in Gibsonton would tell me how charming Grady was and he I think she went back with him because of the fact he was paying the bills. I think there's no question there was love between them, and he had a very magnetic personality. I mean, to this day, I have met people who saw Grady on the carnival circuit as Lobster Boy, and it's idelibly etched in their memories. And I don't

think it's just because of the condition. I think it's because of Grady's ability as a performer, which and something he passed on to his son. And I think that. So, to answer your question, I think she went back with him for a variety of reasons, but I think the dollars and cents of it had a lot to do with it, Plus the fact, I might add that he was sober at this point, he stopped drinking, He was not not violent, he was at that point he was a good person, right, And so she figured he turned

over a leaf and she went back with him. At least that's what she told me.

they all worked together in the carneye. So from that period of time, or rather during that period of time eighty eight to ninety two, they were touring throughout the United States and Canada as a unit, and Grady ran something which I found very fascinating because I didn't know anything about. You know, what do I know about the Carnival. I'm from Brooklyn, for God's sakes, you know, the Carnival with the Brooklyn Rodgers, you know, but now was before

my time. Excuse me, and and and I'll probably I'm gonna I'm gonna get a lot of flak for that one. But anyway, in any case, what happens is they tour and Grady has a thing called that ken and one it's and I deal with it in the book a lot, which is very interesting. It's like ten shows, ten shows or illusions in one. So for the for the price, for whatever price you're paying when you go to the Carney, you get these illusions. And some of these illusions are

pretty damn interesting. Like you've probably seen some of this stuff on TV and other places. Like one of them is like with a girl. There's a girl, she turns into a gorilla. Yes, exactly, the girl turns into the gorilla. They had that they had Grady himself on the platform. They had the Animal Oddity Show, which was run by Kathy and her husband Terrell, wonderful guy, and a couple of other things. And these are the things, you know, and this is what attracts people. And it's a heck

of a show. I mean, you know, we you know we're gonna get you know, this is all before of course YouTube and all that. Are you going to get anything like that for you know? And I might add they also had so this was the last season they went out in nineteen ninety two. Grady had a man

named Merl mccobin whose nickname was Merman the Magician. He did magic and he did fire eating, and they got really really tight together and he would later become very crucial in terms of giving me information about Grady's background. So he had all these things going down, and you know, I'm discussing with you right now, I'm saying to myself, you know what I wish i'd seen it. You know, it would be cool stuff.

old porter. I guess flipped this up, by the way, because I knew we'd be talking at that point. Her three year old daughter. Her name is Misty. She's not twenty three years old, so and I can't believe that, but and Missy's when the condition came out, and Misty, it was so bad. I did when I did this interview, the condition was so bad and I felt so awful. He was literally like when you looked at her, she had like a lobstercor attached to her shoulder. So she

didn't actually have a full arm. Okay, again pointing out how it turns out differently. They lived out in one trailer, and then there was a third trailer, which was like a travel trailer, and that's where they stored the illusions. And there was aroused about named Marco Eno who lived in that trailer. And uh so you had essentially three trailers on the same property.

his claw, you go him back against the wall. That's the sort of situation. So he's slapping her around and he's being very abusive to Teresa, and she decides that she can't take it anymore. That's what she said at trial. She claimed that she could and leave him. She had left him before, but she claimed she could not leave him because it was she would later claim battered wife syndrome.

And so what she does is she takes money that she has gotten through various means, and she takes fifteen hundred dollars gives it to her son, Harry Glen Newman Junior, the Uman blockhead. She says, listen, you know I need some help here to get rid of Grady and he takes the money and he gives it to a kid who lives in the same trail parks. Seventeen year old kid named Chris Wyant tells him what he wants, wants Grady killed, and that's it. You know, he says, Okay,

I want Grady killed. I want my stepfather killed. And it makes a deal and gives the kid the money. Kid goes out and purchases a gun, and then other things happen right after that.

he buys a piece of craft gun. You know, it pays a couple of hundred dollars for it. That's as stupid Chris is at this point. And he gets the gun and he makes the plan to come to the house and he's going to kill Grady. And at one point there's some talk between him and UH and Harry Bilin Newman Jr. About calling to hit off, but it doesn't happen. He decides they they decide to go ahead

with it. And so there's going to be a murder unless something intervenes, and of course, you know, unless it's the movies, that's not going to happen.

allegedly asleep in a different room. Okay, so now you've got and and what So what occurs is this They've watched a video of the film Ruby not to be a film by the way, with with Danny Iello playing what's his name? Help me out here Dan the dude that shoots Lee Harvey.

is old planned. He steals in through the back door of the trailer. He comes into the main room. Grady's sitting there watching TV. He's a he's in his underwear, as you point out, he's watching Ruby. Grady goes through that and he looks around. He says, Chris Wyant, and he tells him to leave and out back. Marcoweno, who's in that other trailer that I described. Suddenly, here, pop, pop pop, three gunshots. Marcolino runs out, runs into the trailer where Kathy is with Teresa and says, I you

know what's going on here? And they think it's gunshots, and so Marco and.

So I actually called Wilette and we got to chat about this, and you know, it was like, you know, old homely because we were very friendly. And is what happened. The police are called. Michael Lett comes into the trailer and and he looks at what's going on, and he sees the body slumped forward. By that time, the techies are there, and he immediately does what cops are supposed to do, which is says, okay, who would do this? And he begins to wonder, does some preliminary questioning of

the family. They claim that he has no enemies, that Grady has no enemies, and it takes them about he and his partner fig Figuretto. Takes them about twenty four hours before they double back and they start questioning the family again and that's when they begin to discover Grady's abusive behavior when he's to and it doesn't take them very long to get Harry Glen Newman Jr. To tumble and say what really occurred. And once he does that, then they go to Teresa. And it isn't a situation

where people are saying I didn't do it. They rarely admit to it. But Teresa says she was pushed to it because he was so abusive, and at that point she is then charged with murder. Harry Glen Newman Junior Is charged with murder. The trigger man, Chris Wyant, is charged with murder. And then it's up to the court system in Hillsborough County, Florida to figure out how to try these individuals. And they make a decision to try them all separately, and well, they won't tried. And what

happens is they're able to try them. They can try it for well, they get tried for second degree murder. It's well some of them. It's like one of them gets tried for first, one of them gets tried for second. You know, it's it's so weirder, you know, the way the court system works at least here, and that's what occurs, and it doesn't. As I said, it doesn't take very long, so Mike will let to figure out what's going on.

But I might say that I think it's an excellent piece of police work because he gets one to inform on the other, and then it becomes a cause celebra because Teresa engages an attorney, Arnie Levine, who's very big in that area in Tampa, and he decides he's going to use a very very unique defense, at least for that period of time, got in wife syndrome in the case of a cond got killing only the fourth time at that point in nineteen ninety three, I'm sorry nineteen

ninety four that it has been used in the United States. It's pretty interesting when you think about it. You know, batted wife in German the case of contract killing and what follows is a four star trial. I mean, it's a real Carnival trial. I might get a real Carnie.

So but you have either in or outside the courtroom, depending upon what they're going to get courtless witnesses. You've got You've got Harry Glenn Newman, senior midget man. He's in a wheelchair. You've got Kathy the daughter, she's in a wheelchair. Uh, You've got Grady Styles the third, who is little Grady he's in a wheelchair. And let's see. Then you've got Terrell Berry, who is the husband who

ran the animal oddity show. Torell is normal. And of course you had Donna, who is the saddest person in the bunch, because I got to talk to her about how Grady. When I say Grady, I mean I mean lobster boy, how he had killed her fiance back in Pittsburgh, you know, many years before. And so you have all of these individuals, either inside or outside the courtroom. And Mary Teresa Styles is sitting at.

capturing all this and that sort of thing. And it's just about at that point that I get involved directly in the case as a participant. Am I getting out of myself? No?

a father and a son wrestling, you know. And you can hear kidd saying Yiddish word meaning kidden around in the background. You can hear Mary Teresa Stiles. You can hear Kathy Mary Teresa Stiles says, hey, Grady, break the whole meaning can She's look when she says Grady, she means a little Rady. Okay, no big deal, right, I mean, you know you've got a kid. You know you might wrestle with the kid, right, It's no big deal.

brutal to his son. And at the end of the proceedings that day, I woke up to Ron Haynes, who's the who's the state's attorney, And I'm not, you know, I just you know, I said, And I talked to everybody. It's my personality. And I said, Ron, I said, my video tip's got sound. He says it can't sound. I said it does. He said, well, then send for it. Let's take a look at it. And I and I walk in that day. I walk out and I'm going to walk into the to the parking structure. I got

my car park I'll never forget it. Because I get to the elevator and I put it the butt and I go, oh man, I use a different word. I'm not going to use it on radio, even though we're on you know, internet, And I said, oh man, I said, I don't know what just happened. See, I went to film school University of Southern California Film School. So I'm very aware that when you have video or film with sound,

it's completely different than when it's without sound. And I went, wait a second, If you have the sound, it's not brutal. If you don't have the sound, it is brutal. They took the sound off, they doctored it so that people would think it's brutal and they would feel sorry for Mary, and they would come back without convict there. And at that point, Dan, I had one of the hardest moments of my life. I sent her the tape. Ronnie Ain't said to me, you get that tape, you call me.

And I had people telling me not to give it, not to become part of the case. As you know, journalists are not supposed to be part of the case, right, And the tape came, and I didn't know what to do. And at the day that it came, and I've never spoken about this publicly, this is the first time I had been up for tenure at a place called Hosta University in New York, where I taught journalism. The day that it came, I was denied tenure because my degree

was in film not journalism. I was told I wasn't qualified to teach journalism because I didn't have a degree in it. I looked at the tape and I said, wait a second, if I'm not qualified to teach journalism, how come I just came up with a piece of evidence that can lead to the conviction of the killer if I turn it over to the prosecution.

I copied the tape. The next day, I went in and I gave the tape before trial to Ron Haynes, the prosecutor, and he said to me, this is now evidence in a murder trial. He went into court he said to the judge, I'd just gotten a hold of a copy of the tape with sound. I want to show it. The judge said, how did you find this tape? And he said, Fred Roseen is writing a book on the case. And I stood up in the courtroom and you could have heard a pin drop. The family looked

over at me like they wanted to kill me. They let him threats against me, but you said, okay, let's get the tape cued up and As he was doing it, Arnie Levine, the defense attorney, came over to me, leaned over the slatted rail divider and said, you mother, you know what you're effing up. You're effing up my murder case. And I had my tape recorder going and I looked at the guy and he was ready to punch me out.

And I looked at him and I said, you're messing around with the jury system, you're messing around with evidence, and you're talking to me this way. And Ron Haynes came over to him and said, Arnie, he's recording this, and he pulled him away. He was ready to hit me, which I was sort of hoping because I was going to take the punch because I figured if he punched me out, then I'd owe him. And then they bought the jury in. They showed the tape and eventually Grady

was convicted. I'm sorry, Mary was convicted. And when the jury was pulled afterwards, they said the thing that decided them to convict her was the videotape that I had produced.

It may you know, maybe journalists aren't supposed to be part of the story, but then again it's probably a once in a lifetime opportunity because you're normally not in that kind of situation. So I applaud you for doing the right thing. And of course it makes for an even more interesting story too, doesn't it.

She was out. By the time I Take the Knee documentary on this case in two thousand and one, she was already out. However, Chris Wyant, the hit man, he served about eighteen years. He's out. The only person that's still in jail is Harry Glen Newman Jr. Who is least culpable because he gave the money to Chris. He was also offered five years, but Mary Teresa's Stiles spoke to him for her son. She was so angry at the system she wouldn't make the deal, and as a result,

he got convicted and sentenced for life. And he's in jail in Florida for life, which is a shame. It's an absolute shame. And he didn't deserve it. He really didn't deserve it. So two out of the three year out and in fact, if you know this show Evil Ken for the Investigation Discovery Channel, they're going to be contacting some of the family and seeing if they want to be on the show. And you know, I've I've

told him, I said, that's great. I said, to make sure we're not in the same studio at the same time. Otherwise I'm calling Tony Stark and I want his armor, you know.

know about it, you know. And uh, I mean, look think about it. I mean it's like, Okay, these people perpetrate his murder, and now they're going to be his pollbearers. Got I got a little problem there, guys. You know, you know, but I did go to I did go to his Uh. I did go to his grave as part of pull it research. Whatever or I can tell you is this, I don't care what he did in

his life. Okay, he didn't deserve to be murdered. Nobody deserves to be murdered, period, and and and and it's wrong and uh, you know, and and there's one other thing that you know, and you know, I'll leave this.

You know, if people are listening and they're interested in buying the book, which is on Amazon Kindle, you'll find some interesting stuff that we haven't discussed at the very end, and which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the night that he was killed, Grady Stiles was not a menace to anybody, no matter what he did in his life that night. He was not a menace to anybody. And that's on the book and you.

I I'd like to just think of all people, no matter what their foibles, whatever they're they're past, they're a murder victim. And certainly that's part of our task, is to find out the truth because we do speak for those people. Sometimes the last cline that shall not kill. Now speaking of speaking for the dead, and we are going to get to this case of Kendrick Johnson and we've had a couple programs already on True Murder about this specifically, and we've had a little bit of well,

we've had developments. Let's let's get right to that. Give us a sort of a recap for those people that don't know anything about Kendrick Johnson, and they'll be motivated to go back in the archives and listen to some of the programs and do some of the research, and go online and look at Abony Magazine some of the articles that you've written already. So tell us give us a little synopsis of this case, and then we can get up to speed on what the latest developments are in this incredible case.

face became viral on the internet. The family was devastated, as anybody would be. There were no suspects. The local sheriff, a guy named Chris Prime, claimed that he died by falling into the wrestling matt while reaching for a sneaker that he'd stored there, and died from something called positional asphyxiation, which simply means that he couldn't get out, there was a lot of pressure on his chest, he couldn't breathe,

he died and that's that. And so what occurred after that was that the family, Kenneth and Jackie Johnson, very courageously protested on the streets of Aldosta that their son had been murdered and that the sheriff was not doing his job and that this was wrong. Subsequently, Kendrick Johnson was found to have died from positional association by the

Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which is notoriously corrupt. And we have discussed this on this show before in the Gary Hilton case, and it is known in Georgia by many individuals how corrupt this organization is. And if they have any problems with what I'm saying, come and get me make my day. And so what occurs is that they claim that they do an investigation and they send out they do a pretensive investigation like it's a murder investigation.

And during this investigation, during this investigation, they send a a detective to interview two boys who excuse me, one of seventeen. One is eighteen. Their dad is an FBI agent. And this dad, who's an FBI agent, was in charge of the Southwest Georgia Gang task Force and the individual the cops send out to through the investigation was part

of this gang task force. Never declares conflict of interest, interviews the father, interviews the two boys, and it turns out that one of these boys has had two fights with Kendrick Johnson, the only individual we have come up with who has motive? Am I doing so far? Again? Pretty good?

individuals were the perpetrators of this crime. However, what occurred was this, In November of twenty thirteen, Webster called me up and told me that my life was being threatened, and I was I couldn't tell. You know, I don't know. I don't know how anybody else would feel. But you know, when you hear somebody's telling you that there's been texts and emails and phone calls your life is being threatened,

took me aback. Well, it took me about ten minutes during that phone conversation to find out that Webster was perpetrating a hoax. He thought this was funny. Subsequently, I said, wait a second, if he's pulling this crap, there's something wrong here. And I then investigated further, and I discovered that some of the individuals that he claimed were involved in this case as bad guys, were not. He was

disingenuous to the nth degree. And further, I discovered that he'd already been by the time I started writing about the case, contrary to what he told me, he'd already been fired by Shadine King Junior as the private investigator

in the case. So what I did was this, I kept going, got some new contacts in Valdosta, Georgia, and luckily these were wonderful contacts, and I got a tremendous amount of cooperation from people on Twitter, people in Valdosta, my researcher who helped me out as a New Jersey. There's one investigative reporter who I'm working with in Valdosta who's a woman who's incredibly brilliant. And the whine up.

We found texts and guess what. There was a student in the gym who texted when the body was discovered, and he went to chapter and verse about what occurred

that day. And then on Kendrick Johnson's birthday, October tenth, he texted that the body was taken out of the gym before the car and showed up hours before and the car and I himself and his report had said the body was moved, which means that when the Karna came on the scene over four hours after the body was discovered, they had taken the body out and guess what guys they put the body back in. And when I say they, I am talking about the Lownes County

Sheriff's Department, specifically Chris Prime. This information was brought to the attention of Michael J. Moore, who is the United States Attorney for the Middle District of Georgia, who's opened an investigation into the case. And now it's up to mister Moore to decide whether he is going to charge Chris Prime and his investigators with corruption in this case, which he absolutely can do. So that's one of the

things that's happening here. The second thing is this, and I'm hoping to write this piece for ebony dot com, which is this. I have discovered the motive, the means, and the opportunity for one of those two boys that I mentioned earlier, whose daddy is an FBI agent, to have killed Kendrick Johnson. And so that is something that I would like that I would like to write and

what I would like to pursue further. I have information that has come to me about why Kendrick Johnson walked into that gym on January the tenth, how he was lured in there by somebody and there's one other point that I'd like to make publicly which I've written about, which is this. His school district was very quick to send out a press release saying, oh, and this is before the autopsies completed. Oh, he died from positional assixiation. You know what. The Lounge County superintendent is a man

named Wes Taylor. It was his daughters who decid covered the body in the mat. Now I understand being a father trying to diminish your children's participation in a case to protect them. However, there is a greater interest here and a greater good, which is justice for a boy that was murdered. And that's where mister Michael Moore comes in. He needs to and he is dispatched rather five FBI

agents to Lowndes County. They're blanketed Georgia. They're interviewing individuals who knows something about this case, and the hope is that they are going to come back with information that will lead to the indictment of the individual or individuals who have committed this murder. And if anybody who's reading this thinks this isn't murder, then I suggest you go see a Steven Spielberg film A guy named e t Okay.

his life. And when you see the photos, it's a visceral reaction that his face was look, his teeth were knocked out. It was incredible. And like you say, the coroner, very powerful with the coroner says this is they didn't they didn't follow any kind of procedure. I'm supposed to be called immediately. So you've got one heck of a story going on here.

were missing. Now that is what became the news. Okay, and doctor Anderson said to me, Fred, he said, everybody's going to pick up on this business of the organs missing. It's a red herring, he said. The fact is I read the first off, I read the report of the original autopsy by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. They claimed with lungs weighed the normal amount. He said, if it was positional asphyxiation, the lungs would filled with order, which

means he didn't die from it. And doctor Anderson then did a dissection of Kate Kj's neck. He discovered that kJ died from one blow to his neck or it could have been pressure performed by a wrestling hold. Remember the two kids that I mentioned earlier, whose daddy's an FBI agent.

Moore no relation to the documentary film producer. That's why I always call Michael Jaymore to differentiate him from the dude from Michigan. Michael is going to he has said to me, and I believe him. I believe he's one of the few federal officials we have that's earning his salary. Mister Morning has said to me that he will go any place to get justice. He is investigating until I'll see otherwise. I as an American, I support what he's doing. As a journalist. I will always hold his feet to

the fire. Which is what we have to do, isn't it, Dan. I don't care if it's you know, I don't care if it's right. It makes some difference if if it's you know, if it's a federal official, a member of you know, of Parliament, the Prime Minister, of the president. That's what we do, okay. And so what more is? What more is doing is gathering information. At the end of the day, whenever that is, he makes a decision,

do I have enough evidence to indict? Personally, I think he's got enough evidence right now to go after the Lowndes County Sheriff's Department for turning up what occurred that day. And I might add, ladies and gentlemen that the corner said and the evidence is there, the cops compromise the crime scene, Dan, the kids found in the wrestling that you're ready for this? Do you know what they did with the wrestling that they coined it? Sure, they coined

it in. And guess what besides the fact that his audience disappeared after the first of the popsy, he's clothing disappeared. We called that forensics' clothing disappeared. And guess what the video of him playing in that gym and facing his fate that disappeared. Excuse me and these quates in in v Algaska. The cops, the white power establishment think they're

gonna get away with this crap. And the only way they don't get away with it is when people like us talk about it publicly the way that we are now. And we called them out and say Okay, you think you're gonna get it's not gonna happen. We're not. And the and the Johnson family has been out there in the street protesting, and I think that they that eventually we will get justice for Kate Day, because that's what

this is about. We can't let something like this go on because quite frankly, if we let that happen, it can happen to any of our kids any place.

happen in small places with people with special interests, and so an incredible crime like this was just going to be covered up really easily without the efforts of the family first and then all the other people that were

affected by seeing this travesty of justice. So we pay a high price for this, and we should demand that the system works the way it's supposed to work, and this certainly has you know, well, you've got the attention of Attorney General or the Attorney State Attorney Michael J. Moore. So that is testament that there's some validity to cover up,

and that's why the heavy charges are being considered. So yeah, I wish the family luck there, and I think the added pressure that these lots of times, it's never underestimate people looking at this kind of case and demanding justice.

But when you have this kind of again, travesty of justice, these are stories that obviously the audience is interested in as well, because we're all we'd all love to see justice actually happen the way we believe in this system.

We know that this is a system that we have, and when we are participants in writing that wrong and understanding the difference between justice and injustice, that again, I think the true crime reader is that kind of passionate person and the person that listens to these programs, who authors tell their stories, that's the kind of person that they are. It's not a it's not a thrill seeking person. It's a person that's interested in the most serious type of history, and that is true crime.

agree with you more about the reader. I've discovered that too, on especially on Facebook, that there you know, there's a there's a group that I am part of talking true crime with Maria and these people are these people are incredibly dedicated to the truth and and and it's it's it's astonishing, it's really astonishing, and I'm just hoping that there'll be enough interest in this and I know you have an international audience that people will continue to pay

attention to this particular case because there's many cases in the world. There's many cases all over the world. But if we start here and we're successful, it just keeps going. And because of the fact that you have an international audience, you make a difference. You make a difference in people's lives. So again, thank you very much for continuing to bring this case to the attention of your listening audience.

experts in this area. And there's so many people fascinated by that. I wanted to say before we go to that. I'm very happy also to have Audible, the world's leading name in digital audiobooks as the sponsor of this program as well, and I wanted to tell people that listen to the program today that there's a thirty day free trial. If you haven't experienced audiobooks as of yet, Audible is the place to start, with over about one hundred and

fifty thousand titles and growing. And they're also I didn't know this, but they're the leading producer provider of radio and television and audio versions of newspapers and magazines. So they really are the biggest name and information, education and entertainment in audiobooks. And for those people that again, an ebook is an experience. A paperback, of course, is what everyone grew up with.

they want to listen to audiobooks. There's all kinds of people, but if you haven't heard them, it's an amazing experience. It's really totally something that you haven't experienced. Sort of use that word again. And if you do visit audible please audible dot com slash true Murder tell them Dan sent you so again thirty day free trial and experience a free audio book right now and go see Audible an Amazon company. So thank you very much for that.

And I wanted to thank you Fred for coming on and again sharing this story of the Kendrick Johnson because this is close to my heart. I know it's close to your heart, and I think the fans are and they've responded this way that they're very interested in being part of this story and seeing this to come to fruition because it's we've got this information in bits and pieces and very much a very unique experience, and I'm very very positive people will be very very interested in

the book. And then getting down to the entire background and your involvement in this case. Again, you've stuck your neck out and you're making some claims and you're digging deep, and you're the leading purveyor of this in this case, I applaud you on that, and I want to thank you very much for coming on talking about Lobster Boy and talking about this case as well well.

in Toronto, and it was amazing. They said, you know, this would never ever happen again because of all the developments in medical techniques and people didn't stay as freaks, and people again you know a bore that kind of word, and the whole freak show kind of carnival thing that you described in Lobster Boy was kind of outlawed in Canada.

But they did make this film and they actually used you know, the man with no arms and legs lighting a cigarette, and they and they employed all of these actors loosely in this and in this story, and so what an incredible tale. But this is about the close freak and Lobster Boy, so great.