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You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Good Evening, This is your host Stan Zupaski for the program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime History and the authors that have written about them. Fort Worth businessman Stephen Barbie was handsome, popular, and married to a wonderful woman. There was just one problem. His ex girlfriend, Lisa Underwood, was pregnant asking for money. As guests gathered for Lisa's baby shower with presents and good wishes, only two things were missing, Lisa and her seven year old son, Jayden.
As time passed, friends and family became concerned, but even their worst fears couldn't compare to the gruesome truth. Lisa was at home when Barbie showed up. Voices were raised, then fists. By the end, Lisa, her unborn child, and young Jaden were dead, but all police found was a bloody room. What followed was an investigation filled with lurid twists, a wild trial, grisly details of multiple murder, a shocking burial, and the warp motives of a man who would do
anything to gain his own happiness. The book is Lethal Charmer, and with my guest journalist and author Patricia Springer, I want to welcome Patricia to the program and thank her for agreeing to this interview. Good evening, Dan, good evening, Pad. How are you.
I'm great.
Oh, thanks for joining me on this second encore we've had, or the encore we've had from our interview not so long ago. So thank you for a green again. It was going to be It's going to be a great interview. I wanted to ask you what made you decide to write a book about this case? What brought you to this case and inevitably to this book, Lethal Charmer.
Well, this was a very high profile case in Fort Worth, Texas. I lived just north of Fort Worth myself. It was a brutal murder and it garnered a lot of attention in this area, mostly because it involved not only a woman but her seven year old son and her unworn child in Texas the death of the fetus?
Hello, yes, Dan, Oh, sorry you cut off there for a moment, so I'm sorry talking about the death of a fetus law.
Yes, yes, it also brings a capital murder charge right now, that they didn't choose to do that because it was a double homicide and so forth, kidnapping and so forth, but it would have been they could have filed just because it was an unborn fetus that was did.
Right now, How big is Forworth, Texas? Just for people that don't know, how closest to any other big city that we might all know in Texas? Where is it situated in Texas?
It's about thirty It's in North Texas and it's thirty miles west of Dallas. I'm sorry. It's the seventeenth largest city in the nation with about seven hundred thousand residents. There's about a million people in Tiran County, which is where for Worth is. It's the number one tourist attraction in Texas because it's known as Cowtown. They are quite proud, as they should be, of their Western history and their ristered heritage, and they play on that a lot.
Right now. One of the main subjects of your book, Lethal Charmer is a woman named Lisa Underwood. Now, who is Lisa Underwood? What was her character like? Did she have children? Tell us about her.
Lisa was a thirty four year old single mother and she was the co owner of Bupa's bagel shop. Bupa's was a nickname of Jade and her son, and so that's what they named the bagel shop. She and her business partner and best friend, Holly. Lisa was very close to her mother and her son was the joy of her life. She was very proud of him. She loved being a mom. She was thrilled about being president pregnant again, and she was very excited that it was going to
be a little girl. Lisa was fun, loving, honest, hardworking. She just happened to fall in love with the wrong man. Right.
Was there any history and on her part that she have sort of a checkered past? What was her You said, this is a very high profile case, so I imagine that this sometimes the more high profile means sometimes the victim is a little more sympathetic. Tell us what kind of past Lisa had? You said she picked the wrong person, But what was her character like? And obviously that led to a little bit more attention by the media.
Well, she I think that the attention from the media came more from the fact that her seven year old son was also murdered and the fact that she was pregnant. Lisa was just a hard working woman and she had Jaden. She was not married, but she wasn't the kind of person that people would consider to be bad. There have been some blogging interviewing all of her friends and her family is that she was a good person and that she just idolized Jaden and was a very good mother.
Right now, the other main subject in your book is Stephen Barbie and what was his early family life like before we get to how they met.
So sure, Stephen grew up in a middle class family in Asle, Texas that's just north of Fort Worth. His mom worked at the school where he went, and his dad worked for Bell Helicopter. Bell Helicopter Bill's Defense Aircraft and he worked there until he retired. His death's name was Bill. His mother's name is Jackie. Stephen was the youngest of three kids, and in his early years he was known as the class plan. He was very popular,
He was athletic, he was well liked. Then, when he was about twelve years old to be a little older, his sister died and she was twenty at the time. She died from a rare infection that she had gotten in the hospital. And then his brother died in a one car automobile accident when he was twenty and at that time Stephen changed. He believed that he would never live to see twenty one, and he began living a
rather wildlife, taking chances. He got into some trouble with criminal mischief, he dropped out of sports, he wasn't doing well in school, just convinced that he had to live life to the fullest through his twenties because he would never see twenty one. He never got into any real trouble, just minor scrapes, and his mother got him out of
most of those. His parents finally sent him to a Christian school, hoping that that would settle him down, and he went there for a while, and then he decided that he wanted to go back to public school and play sports. He liked football baseball. When he went back to the public school, they wouldn't accept his transfer credits from the Christian school, and so he became very frustrated and he dropped out. He never did get a high school diploma, although he did get a GED which is
a high school equivalency certificate. But he just kind of after his siblings died, just kind of went down a path of unconcerned about himself and really anything about life. He lost the zest for life that he had once had.
What was his relationship with his parents. I know they were devastated by the loss of their children as well, but what was the relationship seen Stephen and his parents around that time.
Well, he really grew very close to his parents at that time. Even though he was getting into some minor scrapes, he still remained close and he and his mother actually developed a very strong bond. This was her last child and she would do anything for him, give him anything he wanted. We got us at what sacrifice it was to she and her husband. They really doated on Stephen a lot because he was the only child left and
he truly loved them. But again, had a really close bond with his mother in particular.
Was there alcohol and drugs involved in this wild time and this taking chances period that you spoke of, not.
Much, I mean, you know, dabbling but not really. He didn't become a drug addict or an alcoholic. I'm sure that he did drink, I know that, but it was just mostly you know, driving fast, and he got into some mischief at school. They broke in and did some graffiti damage and that kind of thing. Kids stouted mostly, And.
He never had any psychiatric evaluation of any extent, to any great extent, no, not that we're aware of. Okay, now he's a married man at this at some point in your story. Maybe I'm going a little bit ahead here, but oh, actually I want to ask you. All we got really is to maybe in his early twenties. I want to ask you about is how about his adult life, say,
a few years later? What happened? You say he would He did have much zest for life, and he and had this notion that he wouldn't live till he was thirty years old anyway, So what did he do as time went on?
Well, his mother really tried to keep him pumped up emotionally, and so when he was with the day turned twenty, his mother told him that she had saved money for him and that he could buy a boat. And he bought the boat and he would go out on the lakes and go fishing and water skiing and so forth. And he had started a business when he was a teenager, a lawn care business. First he started with the neighbors
during their lawn and so forth. And he built this business up to where he called it four seasons, and it was really quite successful, and in the end he even got state contracts with the state of Texas to trim trees along the highway. So he was really a very successful businessman in the Inn. For just a few years, he was a reserve officer with the Blue moun Police Department. Again that's just north of Fort Worth, and although he was just a reserve officer, he spent about twenty hours
a month, probably patrolling and so forth. He had always wanted to be a police officer, but his business grew so much that he finally dropped that and just concentrated on the lawn business and the tree trimming business. He drove a corvette. He dated multiple women. He was good looking, fun loving, he spent money on them. He always had
a girl on his arm. He married his first wife, Teresa, and they were married for about seven years, but that became a very volatile relationship with accusations of verbal and physical abuse on both sides. So he was married for a period of time.
Did he have any actual charges, any substantive actual charges of assault against I know lots of times both people charged. But in your whatever you could determine from it, was there any physical abuse that might have happened with his first wife, Teresa?
Teresa listed several in court, several incidents. One he pushed her against the wall and a candle fell on her head and she was knocked unconscious. He wouldn't take her to the hospital. He drove herself, that kind of thing. But as far as actual police involvement, they were called, but he was never arrested and formally charged with any kind of domestic violence.
Okay, so we can say it wasn't too serious, not to downplay anything, but no, too serious anyway.
No, it was more of a he said, she said, And really it got down to people didn't know who started it and who.
Did it right right now, did he have children with Teresa?
No, they never had children. Now, they taught Sunday school. They took a program that had about ten kids in it and built it up to dozens of children that were in their Sunday school class. Steven loved puppetry and he would put on puppet shows for the kids. They based their they had their own curriculum that they taught them and so forth. So he loved kids. He was just a big kid inself. He'd liked to have fun, but as far as children, he and Teresa never had any.
Now, when did Stephen Barbie meet Lisa Underwood? And when does you say? He's married to Teresa? So that marriage ended, and so to give us the chronological order of what happens, when does Lisa meet Stephen Barbie? Does? He does give us the order of events here.
Actually, Lisa had met Teresa first because Teresa would come into the bagel shop and get breakfast for their workers that worked for them and take it back to the shop to them. Then after he and Stephen and Teresa separated, Stephen would go into the bagel shop and pick up breakfast.
And that's where he met Lisa was there at her shop, and he found her to be cute and personable, and she liked to laugh and she laughed at his jokes, and he just thought that she was cute and ask her out and they started dating just casually at first, right, and hello.
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Billberg necessary dtail where I lost the terms conditions eighteen plus And then when did Stephen mary again? And who did he marry the second time?
He had dated Lisa for about a year on and off year and a half, and then one day he was in Fort Worth and he noticed this gal standing on the street that he knew he had known and her husband, and he stopped and said hello to her, found out she had been divorced, and asked her out.
And he always thought that Trish was just beautiful and she had two children that he was crazy about, And so he started dating Trish and quit dating Lisa, Lisa found out that she was pregnant and continued to seek out Stephen and wanted to talk with him and be with him. And he told her that he wanted to have a child with Trish, and Lisa said, well, we're having a child. But Stephen was just quiet enamored with Trish, and very shortly after they started dating, they got married.
And so what did Stephen finally say to Lisa under what he was interested in Trish? He's going to have a child with Trish, he did he what did they actually decide or what did he actually say about the child? About the pregnancy.
Well, when she first told him, he says he wanted a DNA test, and she told him that she was certain that it was his, and he said, well, you know, okay. And she wanted him to go to doctor appointments and he wouldn't. And she wanted him to be involved and he wouldn't because he was concentrating on his marriage. He married Trisha about two months before the murders actually, and at the time of Lisa's death, she was seven and
a half months pregnant. Lisa wanted at the end, she just wanted his name on the birth certificate says the child would have a name, and she wanted insurance for the child, and he did not want to do that, particularly put his name on the birth certificate, because then Trisha had a great her chance of finding out. And he was trying to keep this pregnancy from Trish.
Why did so He felt that if he told Trish and that would affect his relationships. So because of that, he you know, Lisa Underwood becomes a problem, right.
Actually, he didn't see Lisa a whole lot more after he started seeing Trish, but in his mind there was an overlap there and she would mistake that as having you know, him gone out on her, jilted her, and so he didn't want her to know anything about Lisa. He was so afraid of losing Trish. He was quite in love with Trish and her children.
Right now. Lisa Underwood has planned to attend a baby shower on her behalf organized by the family on February eighteen, two thousand and five. What happens at the baby shower?
Lisa didn't show up. It was raining very heavily that day, and they had saved a parking place right in front of Bupa's for Lisa, and they kept looking out the window. The shower was supposed to start at four o'clock and they had told her to be there about five minutes till and all the friends and family were there with their gifts and the decorations and so forth, and Lisa didn't show up, and at by four fifteen, her mother, Sheila, was certain that something was wrong because it was just
not like Lisa to be late. And she was so excited about this shower because she never had a baby shower when she had Jaden, and this was a little girl, and she was excited about all the little peak things that she was going to be getting. So particularly Sheila and Holly, her business partner, were very concerned by four p fifteen that she wasn't at the shower.
Now, what did they do at that time? Did did Lisa have a cell phone? How did they respond? At fourth?
They called her several times on her cell phone and it always went to voicemail. They never could get her. And finally Sheila just said, I'm going to the house. I've got to check, and so she went with her sister over to Lisa's house. Sheila had a key, She went inside, she looked around. Things didn't look quite right,
and she became more concerned. It wasn't an obvious crime scene to her, but she knew things weren't right, and so she went back to the bagel shop and they called nine to one one and reported to the police that she was missing. While she was gone and checking on Lisa, Holly was calling all of the area hospitals to make sure that nothing had happened. Because she was
seven and a half months pregnant. They thought, oh, well, perhaps she had gotten it if she'd been ill all week with a cold, so had Jaden and she had become more ill, or that something had occurred that she had to go to the hospital. So they were checking all of the area hospitals, but it didn't turn out that she was at any of them.
That's a logical choice. Now, when you say that something was amiss at the house, the mother didn't Shela didn't go her mother didn't go inside. What did she do that and what seemed to be different?
Well, the first thing was that the dog was outside, and the dog was never outside, he was an indoor puppy. And when she walked up to the front door, the first thing she said is what are you doing here? Just the dog, you know, because he was not supposed to be outside, particularly if they were gone. And so she looked inside, and she didn't go all the way in. She just sort of did a cursory look and then decided that there was something wrong and she called one one one.
Now, how long it had been her friend Holly. We'll talk about her, Hollypolls. But how long had it been since anyone had spoken to to Lisa? Got the Colley had.
Talked to her not that day. Holly had talked to her at seven forty five. The night before. Lisa had kept secret the name of the baby. She didn't want to tell them until she was ready that she was going to name the child Marlee. And so she Holly was at a party store getting napkins and plates and everything for the shower, and she called Lisa and said, well, if you'll just give me the first initial of the baby, then I can get initial plates. And Lisa laugh been said, oh, good, try,
but that's not happening. So that was at seven forty five. Holly had been calling her all day and checking on her because she had been sick. She and Jaden had been sick and at seven forty five, Lisa told her that she was feeling a little better and that she was looking forward to the party the next afternoon at four.
Okay, so now she doesn't show up for the shower. People eventually, I guess, realized that something has gone wrong. They've called all the hospitals. What happens next, you say, they've called nine one one. What happens between the police and Sheila and Holly? What happens? What happens next? What do they do?
Went to the bagel shop and interviewed Sheila and Holly, and then Sheila followed the officer over to Lisa's house. The officer looked around the perimeter of the home to find out if there had been any kind of forced entry. She didn't find. She went inside. She walked around. She saw a pink tinge on the living room carpet and felt it. It was damp and it had a soapy residue on it. It was covered up by a coffee table. And at that point Holly had looked in and seen
Jaden's tennis shoes on the hearth. She knew that folse were the only pair of tennis shoes that Jaden had it was February, it was very cold, very rainy, and she knew that if he was gone, he would have his shoes with him. And also they looked in the bedroom and Jaden's glasses were on the night table where he always put them when he went to bed at night,
and he couldn't see without them. And so it really made Holly even more concern because the private things that Jaden needed to live and to function were gone were there, but he was gone.
Now did Holly speak to the police if they only confused? Did Holly? Police spoke to Holly and asked her some questions. Did she give all the information that she gave at that time, and if she did, what's that information that she gave a police to give? Police? Initially about Lisa.
They asked Holly when the last time she had talked to her, if they knew anybody that Lisa had had problems with, or anybody that had threatened Lisa, anyone that may have done something. And the first person the only
person that Holly said with, Stephen Barbie. She explained to the police that Lisa had been dating him, that she was after him not for money, but for insurance for the baby, and so forth, and that he had become very angry about that, and so Holly tipped them off to Stephen Barbie's name and the connection of Stephen with Lisa right at the beginning.
Right, and she also told him about the pregnancy and again you say you about the anger, but she told them that she told them quite a bit of information that would lead them to believe that now Stephen Barbie is their main suspect. That's right, Okay, Now we have to go back a little bit. Who is Ron Dodd, what's and what's his relationship to Stephen Barbie, because it's important.
Ron Dodd was first an employee of Stephen Barbie's at Four Seasons, and then he became Stephen Barbie's best friend, and ironically he eventually became Teresa barbie stiance, so he was really entrenched into the Barbie family. Ron Dodd is a person who He's the one that drove Stephen Barbie to Lisa Underwood's house the night of the murders, and he was his best friend. He would do anything that Stephen Barbie asked him to do. Ron Dodd has a
rather checkered past. He has been in prison for domestic violence. And so he was on parole at the time this occurred.
Well, now, so Ron Dodd is best friends and works with Stephen Barbie. Now tell us about that horrible day, because you you you do start at the beginning and tell us what happened that day according to what you've written in your book.
Okay. It was February the eighteenth, two thousand and five, and Lisa was home with Jayden. Jayden was asleep. Lisa had been on the computer, uh and that the police forensics people verified that she had been on the computer about eleven thirty that night, checking out babysites. They had both been sick, as I said, they were both battling congestion.
And that's significant because of the events that happened. Later, just around midnight, she heard a knock at the door and it was Stephen Barbie, so she let him in. Obviously she knew him, and he told her that he had come to talk with her about her demands for the baby. Barbie told Ron Dodd that he planned to get Lisa angry and that if she could pick a fight with him, then he could eliminate her and eliminate
his problem. And at one time when he said he didn't think he could go through with it taking care of Lisa as in taking her out. Ron Dodd even suggested they hire hitman to do it. He didn't know Jaden. He had never met Jaden because every weekend Jaden spent in Dallas with his grandmother, and he was unaware when he went to the house on the eighteenth February that Jaden was there and that he was asleep in the next room. He began a fight with Lisa. Lisa kicked him.
He punched Lisa in the nose. He broke her nose. A huge fight ensued. She was covered in bruises. She had a broken arm, a broken finger, a busted lip, just bruising all over her body. She really fought him,
and she was fighting for her baby. Finally he got her down on the floor, face down and pressured her into the floor, and because she was having trouble breathing because of the congestion and also because of being seven and a half months pregnant, the baby shifted upward and it blocked off oliver air supply and she was suffocated there on the carpet of her living room. The blood came from her nose and it had bled quite profusely
and made quite a stain on the carpet. While he is battling Lisa, Jayden comes in and he starts screaming, what are you doing to my mommy? Stop hurting my mommy. And Jaden was tossed over on to the sofa and his hand was Barbie's hand was put over Jadon's.
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Plus mouth probably his nose at the same time, but even if he didn't, the congestion kept him from breathing, and Jaydon also was suffocated. When they were dead, he ran outside, thinking that Ron Dodd would be there, and Rod was not there. He had gone to dinner with Teresa.
Well.
Barbie tried to call him to come over and help him. Ron never answered the phone, so Barbie decided he had to leave, and the only way he had of leaving was in Lisa's suv, which was a Dodge Drango. He put the bodies in the back of the Durango. Then he went into the kitchen. He got cleaning products from underneath the kitchen sink, and he scrubbed the carpet in the living room. All of the blood would not come up. That's why there was a pink tinge when the police arrived.
Soaked it rather well and used a lot of soap, so it had this residue on it. He then tried to vacuum it, and there were vacuum marks in the carpet and it still showed. So he moved the coffee table over and put it on top of the stain, hoping that no one would notice it. When the police arrived and the forensic team arrived, they found blood spatters, small blood spatters on several pieces of the furniture, on the walls, on the floor, on the sofa. It was
quite a fight that Lisa had put up. But that's uh did he After he got the bodies in the suv, he drove out of Fort Worth. This isn't far north fort Worth when this happened, he drew. He drove even further north into southern Denton County, the adjacent county and uh, that's where Ron Dodd he finally reached by phone and Rod told him where he could go to dispose of the bodies.
And so that's what he did.
That's what he did. He picked a rural area, very secluded and right outside justin Texas, which is in south Denton County. He had to climb over to Barbara Fences, uh to give them to their final resting place. But that's where he put them.
Now, what happened with the this is very interesting what happened now with Deputy sheriff David Browner or Browner and Steven Barbie and who is David Weekly Vid.
Blanner is a Sheriff's deputy was Ditton County and he was on patrol in the southern portion of the county. Like I said, it's a very rural community, just dotted with houses lots of ranch land, underbrush, trees, that kind of thing. It's very unusual, particularly at two o'clock in the morning, to see anyone out walking. And he saw this man walking down the access road of Interstate thirty five, and he stopped and he asked the man who he was,
and the man told him he was David Weekly. Well, David Weekly is a prominent home builder here in the North Texas area. And in actuality, it was Stephen Barbie. He just thought of the first name that came to his mind. Now, I will say that David Weekly had billboards along the interstate advertising his homes and so forth, and it could have been that Barbie looked up and saw the name on a billboard at that particular time. But that's the name he gave him, and he gave
him a day of birth. The deputy went back to his patrol car, called dispatch, ran that name and birth date and came back with nothing. And so the deputy went back to talk with the man and find out exactly who he really was. And then that's when Barbie took off running.
How did he get away, Yes, he did.
He took Bronner on quite a chase, jumped over a barb wire fence a lot of bob ed wire in Texas, you could tell, and ripped his jeans, ran through lots of underbrush, and of course Bronner has, you know, his vest on and his gun and his radio and everything else, and he's having a hard time catching up with this guy. And he finally loses him in a very thick forested area right there off the interstate and he just he just lost in there.
Luckily, in the pursuit, though his unbeknownst, the officer was captured some video footage on his cam that later would prove very important. Now, what did the officers officers video cam capture while chasing Stephen Barbie.
Well, I assume that probably all patrol cars are equipped this way, but once they get out of their patrol car, the video cam automatically starts, and so it was recording
the entire session between Deputy Brauner and Stephen Barbie. Uh So it got videotape of this man, the way he was dressed, his builds, his mannerisms, everything, and so they had a not just a description of this person, but they had actual pictures of this person that Bronner had stopped at two o'clock in the morning, right off at
inter State thirty five. And that was important because two days later they found Lisa's suv where Barbie had ditched it in a creek, and that was very near where the steputy had stopped him that morning.
Right now, you say, the police have Stephen Barbie in their sights, and now they had an opportunity to have Stephen barbarade, but he's on the run. Now do they make that connection? And what did the police do next in their.
Investigation, Well, they didn't really make the connection at that particular time because it hadn't even been put out. Of course, no one even knew Lisa was missing at two o'clock in the morning. It wasn't until four o'clock that afternoon that she didn't show it for her party. So really
Bronner never thought about it except that he had it. Well, then when they located her car in Ditton County and discovered that it was that of missing Lisa Underwood and her seven year old child, then Rauner put the two together and he went to the scene where the vehicle had been found and where the Fort Worth Police were inspecting the scene and investigating, and he turned over the video recording to them and said, I stopped this man at two o'clock in the morning, and it may be
if some use to you, And honestly it.
Was right now. Stephen Barbie's on the run. What does he do next? Does he does he talk to his wife? I was curious to did he does he call his wife at all?
No? He never called Trish. He called Ron Dodd to come get him. He stopped and was hiding by a storage building that was on Annie Boy Street, which is near the University of North Texas here in Denton. He called Ron God told him to come get hi. Ron came and got him and took him back to Teresa Barbie's house where he had left his vehicle. And he got in his truck and drove back to the house that he shared with trishn the two kids, and he went to bed.
And then what happened?
Well, the next morning he got up and cook breakfast for the kids and took the dog to obedient school, took the kids to a movie, went shopping and it was life as usual.
Wow. Now, how did the police proceed here? And and what based on the crime scene evidence, what do they think has happened? And how do they proceed.
Well, based on the condition that her home was in they had put on an amber alert for Lisa and Jaden, and then when the car was discovered, they were certain they felt like foul play had been involved because of her stains of the house and so forth. But when they found her vehicle abandoned, they were certain that something terrible had happened to them, and so they still had the amber alert going on. But it was at that
point they were looking for bodies. They got an anonymous tip and as it turned out, that anonymous tip came from Ron Dodd. But the police got an anonymous tip that Stephen Barbie was responsible for the deaths of Lisa and Jaden Underwood, and so that's who. Even with Holly's tip and they were thinking of him and had interviewed him, he became suddenly the only suspect in the case.
Why do you think Ron Dodd did what he did? He helped them out. I mean, it's it's almost suicide because if he admits his his you know, his involvement, then he is is under you know, under law. He's quite a bit responsible as well. Why did he do this? Have you did you ever find.
Out that well, they both say someject different Ron Dodd says that he did it because he felt guilty, that he for his part in it. Stephen Barbie, who recandied everything that will eventually talk about and his interview with the police, said that actually Ron Dodd was the one that he had killed them, and so that in other words, the tip from Ron Dodd was to throw the police off of him and onto Stephen Barbie, and that that's
why that had happened. Ron Dodd. Sheila Underwood confronted in court, and she believes that he is not responsible for the deaths, but she does hold him responsible for everything else that occurred, and even prior to the deaths, because he knew what was being planned. He knew they that the plan was to get rid of Lisa Underwood and the problem of her child.
Right now, tell us about this? Does the Stephen Barbie arrest? Tell us what happens?
Okay? Stephen and Ron were both going to Tyler, Texas, which is a couple of hours east of Dallas, to trim trees. It was another government contract with the state to trim the trees along the highway line, and so they were going there on Monday morning to start the service. He also took with him Trish and the two kids, and they were going to spend a few days together in Tyler. When he wasn't working, the detective on the case, who was Mike Carroll, called Barbie and said, we need
to get a statement from you. And Barbie wanted to know why, and he says, well, because we know that you knew her and that you had dated her, and we just want a statement from you. And so Barbie said, okay, but I'm in Tyler. And so Carol arranged to meet Barbie at the Walmart parking lot in Tyler, Texas about
four o'clock in the afternoon. They go there, There's a detective Jamison that interviewed Ron Dodd, another detective that interviewed Barbie, and Mike Carroll interviewed Trish Barbie, and then he asked them to follow him to the Tyler Police Department so that they could get the statement from him. Right they already had a digress warrant drawn up based on the tip, based on the evidence, based on the video camera film of him, and so forth. They had the arrest warrant
already in their pocket when they went to Tyler. They met him in the police department parking lot. They took him inside and that's where they interrogated him. They wanted to do it there because it would be under videotape. They put Ron Dodd in one room and Barbie in another room and individually interviewed them.
Now, it's very important to the trial and any trial is what happens when they detective question the suspect, especially when the objective is always to elicit a confession from a suspect. Ideally, what happens in this case, Well.
First of all, there were several things. But first, Mike Carroll lied to Stephen Barbie, which is not uncommon. Police slight to said respects all the time in order it yeah there, it's okay, you know, it's a fair game. And but he told him that he had already been identified on a videotape from a Denton County detective, I mean deputy's video cam. H really, in essence, it hadn't. They thought it was him. They were sure it was him, but they were going to bring the deputy to Tyler.
Uh and actually I d Barbie if he didn't admit it. So Barbie did admit that well, Yes, I had had trouble with my pickup truck. It sputtered out and I was walking along the highway to get to a phone to call someone.
And so.
That was the first thing is that he had lied to it. Now Barbie got very very upset later on when he found out that he had lied. He thought that was, you know, foul. The other thing was that everything was videotaped. For an hour and a half, they videotaped Barbie and they discussed a number of things. They discussed his lifestyle, They discussed Teresa, they discussed Trish, they talked about Lisa everything, and then they went in and they talked to Ron Dodd, and Ron Dodd told them
that Barbie had killed the two. He told them where that it was off of four oh eight off of I thirty five, and justin Texas.
So he gave them the location of the bodies, not in detail.
But he told them that it was off of this certain exit off of Road four oh at County Road four oh eight, and that was right off of Interstate thirty five. So they knew basically the direction of where it was. He didn't ten point the location. Then they went back in and They told Barbie that they knew that he had killed them, that he had they knew where the bodies were, and that he needed to talk to him.
Uh sorry, why did they tell him? Did they did they say to him, listen, your friend has rolled over on you, Ron Dodd, Or did they keep that to themselves and just keep hammering that they knew, they knew, they knew.
It was more that they knew, they knew, they knew. He knew Ron was next door, he knew they were talking to Ron. I'm sure that he probably knew Ron was saying. Barbie claims that he didn't give up Ron Dodd because he was afraid of Ron DoD, and that Ron Dodd had threatened his family, his mother and his
father if he ever told so. That's what he eventually said after he had told them the incidents of the evening, But after they came in to tell him what Ron had said and that they knew what was going on, they asked him if he need takes him to the restroom, which is down in maze of halls, And in that restroom, Mike Carroll says that Stephen Barbie confessed now only time that there was no tape running.
Sure, what did what did he say that? Stephen Barbie said, for the motive, for the reason is this, That's where all this motive comes from from that confession.
That the motive was that Lisa was going to tell Trish about the baby and that she was going to ruin their marriage, and that he loved Trish and he loved his family and he would do anything for them, and that was his motive. So uh, you know. Then at that point they take him back, They take him to a computer and they pull up map quest. They want to know where it is that the bodies can be found. He gives them a vague description of where
that is, sort of like Ron Dodd did. And then they take him back into the room back on videotape, and they're talking to him there uh and and there he says that he didn't mean to kill Lisa, that it was more of an accident, but he admits that Jaden was not, that this was a witness more or less and that had to be taken care of. He admitted cleaning up the area, He admitted taking the bodies to justin Uh. He admitted calling Ron Dodd. Ron helped him throw the bodies over the bob war fence. He
did not help him dig the grave. Barbie Doug a grave. He put Lisa in and then he put Jayden in on top of Lisa with his head resting on Lisa's shoulder, and then he covered them with brush and debris that was there in the area, and he said a prayer for them.
Well, now I'm just curious, did the police did. What did Trisha have to say when she was notified that her husband was was under arrest for killing this woman he had dated his ex girlfriend whatever you want to call her, and the pregnant woman being pregnant, and also her child. What did she say?
Well, at first she didn't know about the child. They Mike Carroll just told her about Lisa. She was visibly and I've seen the videotape of her going in and talking to Stephen visibly upset, screaming at him. Why why they're both crying hysterically and he just only say that he loves her, And they just told each other and cry most of the time. It wasn't until after she left the police department that she learned about Jade's death.
She stood by him for a while. She didn't believe it, and the defense had asked her not to divorce him until after the trial. But about a month before the trial began, she had filed for divorce and it was final. And she did a ten part of the trial.
Oh, she did, but not very much of a supportive role.
No, not a supportive role at all.
No.
No, by then she had accepted that he had killed him.
Now, we won't get into the trial. He's only got about nine minutes. But I want to get into who attended the trial. I want to know who are the witnesses for the defense and for the prosper cution. Tell us a little bit about who attended to watch Who supported Stephen Barbie, if anyone tell us a little bit about that, the.
Supporters that he had. Of course, for his mother and father who were there every day, who really had a tough time. His father had been diagnosed with cancer by then it was in very ill help has since died, and so his mother is now alone. She has no one. No, she has a sister out of state. That's all. So they were there. A friend of the family was there who also happened to be the head of the Christian
school that he had gone to. His cousin Jennifer was there and she testified for him as a character witness. They really didn't have any defense witnesses at all during the guilt innocent stays, and they brought in several character witnesses during the penalty phase.
Now, the confession that Stephen Barbie has is contentious at trial, and I won't give away because it's incrediblely your coverage of the trial, but needless to say, before the trial and we call it, maybe call it and can a little different. It's of what deer. What's deemed admissible at a trial is what we call of what deer here. But obviously it's a little bit it's before the trial
itself that this confession has decided on it. I won't give it away, But the confession whether Mike Carroll actually did speak with him in the washroom and what exactly was said, that becomes an issue at trial, doesn't it.
Yes. In fact, the defense used that as their total defense was to impeach Mike Carroll's testimony and the record keeping of Mike Carroll and the the way that Fort Worth keeps their police records, their notes on the scene and so forth. That was pretty much the whole defense strategy was to just make it seem as though Mike Carroll was not telling the truth. This confession never occurred.
And this becomes a death penalty case. Right, he qualified for this death penalty case? Yes, okay, yeah, So I mean Texas does execute people too at a fairly Like a lot of states, they really delay the process, But Texas is known for fairly swift justice, isn't it? Relatively speaking?
It is?
It used to be years ago that and there are still men on death row that have been there over twenty years. But now because of the way the appeals process has changed, generally speaking, it's about six years before they receive their execution.
I think I have a caller here. I'm going to see maybe they have a question for you. Pat. Okay, good evening. Hello, did you have a question for my guest?
Hello?
Hi?
Did you have a question from Did you have a question for our guest?
Yes?
I do. Hello Tina, Hello, Pah, recognize that voice.
What would you expect to get through this without me piping in?
This is Tina Church. Tina Church was a consultant for the Barbie family. She stood by them and it's still standing by them through this whole ordeal.
And I'm also I'm also the investigator on this case.
Yes, she is quite well versed in this case.
Well, welcome to the program, Tina.
Well, thank you. A couple of things, Pat. That one thing that you've got to mention when the tape was rolling, Ron Dodd's car is caught on camera on that police video that can Yes, that's correct. And you personally have talked to Stephen and as have I, and he certainly has a different story and all of the things that Pat is a very good writer. She and I have been like sisters for many, many years. However, there's a lot of things about this case that only the defense
is aware of. It is a lot of things our perception versus reality. At this point, do you think.
That Ron Dodd? Do you think Ron Dodd is the is the real culprit at this point?
Yes, we do.
You know, first of all, there is yet testing to be done. There is physical evidence that is yet to be tested. We know that the video has was stopped, started, stopped started during this alleged confession. I know that Mike Carroll walked into a room and said to Stephen Barbie, you're not going to bring that stuff up about Ron Dodd again, and it was in such a low.
Voice, and that was in the book. That is brought out in the book that is correct.
And the one the one thing is Teresa Barbie, his first wife, was actually a bigger culprit in this than what anyone wants to believe, because I don't know if I caught it. Did you talk about how the strap was cut on?
No, we didn't. We didn't get into all of that. You know, it's an hour show.
Well, there were a couple of attempts made on Stephen's life by Ron Dodd.
And and those were all documented in the book.
Yes, this is absolutely And also Teresa definitely had a motive for Stephen to be gone. She had even altered an insurance policy to the tune of five million dollars or half a million dollars.
I'm sorry, what do you What do you think about the assertion that Ron Dodd had a bigger contribution? Pat? What do you think?
I agree that Ron Dodd had more of a part in all of this than what the investigators and the prosecution thinks. Even she Underwood believes that he has a bigger part. It's just that their assertion is that Stephen Barbie is the killer. Stephen Barbie is the one that was convicted of it. But I don't think that there's anyone that's involved in the case that doesn't believe that Ron Dodd had a bigger roland that than what he
claims to have. Those same people also believed that Teresa Barbie knew exactly what was happening and never did anything to try to stop it, or to notify police or to help in any way. And yes, she she had motive herself. It's like I said, it just this is only in our show, but all those things are covered in the book, and it gets into very intricate parts of the dynamics of all three of those people and their relationship to each other as well.
And it certainly it is certainly cast out on Stephen Barbie's actual guilt, and it can lean to the actual innocence because as of today, Stephen Barbie, due to the head injury that was sustained because of Ron Dodd cutting a strap twenty foot long, still being four hundred pounds cracked a hard hat that we believe was done purposely, Steven is in a wheelchair today and suffering you know,
tremendous amount of pain from a non treated injury. And it all happened like one month before this incident, and this was only one attempt on Stephen's life.
Well, well it's incredible, Tina. We've only got about a few seconds left. I want to thank you very much, Tina Church for calling in and uh contributing to the program, and thank you very much. And I also want to thank Pat Springer especially for her book talking about Lethal Charmer. Incredible story, and thank you for another great interview, Pat, And have yourself a good evening.
Thank you, Dan, good night you too, Tina.
Have yourself a good evening.
Talky later Bydbye.
Bye, byeye you even listening to a program true Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written above them. Good night,