KILLER FICTION-Sondra London

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journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good evening at a high school dance in nineteen sixty four, seventeen year old Sondra London met a bright, handsome, well mannered Catholic boy, eighteen year old Gerald John Schaeffer. They hung out all the time and soon fell in love, but after a year, as young lovers will, they went their separate ways. She

thought she'd never see him again. Then in nineteen seventy two came the screaming headlines six dead twenty eight maybe, and the foolish stories about the smiling cop turned sadistic killer and corpse loving fiend, hoarding mementos of his mutilated victims and writing it all up in feverish prose. Absolutely unbelievable. She was appalled that crimes like this could be committed

by anyone, much less someone she had known intimately. Remember, those were the days before the term serial killer existed, before Ted Mundy, John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer so irreqroavely showed us what it meant. In those days, Shaeffer's type of crime was not only unnamed, it was unheard of. Between March and July of nineteen eighty nine, Shaffer sent her the stories included in two sections of killer Fiction,

Whore's and Stark Stories. Selections from the stories and drawings used as evidence in his nineteen seventy three murder trial are included in the section actual Fantasies. A limited edition of the volume comprising these three sections was copyright and published in June of nineteen eighty nine. I'm not writing nonfiction, explained the literary Madman. Its killer fiction, a new genre where the writer takes violence as an artistic medium in instead of glorifying it, makes the reader see it as

the cruel and horrid act it is in reality. I don't represent violence as good.

His sexism is racism, his fury at every living being in the world, including himself, His boast of rape, sodomy, murder, even necrophilia. These she managed to tolerate by reminding her self that this was important data, and so she decided to set aside her own personal distaste for the ugliness of the work and focus on presenting it in all its twisted glory and leave it to the audience to

tell her what it was. The book that we're featuring this evening is Killer Fiction Stories That Convicted the ex cop of murder, with my special guest journalist and author, Sandra London. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Sondra London.

school in town. And he we met literally at the punch bowl. We both had days, but somehow or another we wound up chatting over the punch bowl and told him my name, and so he went through the Fort Lauderdale phone book and looked up everyone by that last name and called them to see if he could find me that way. And he did find me, and I thought it was kind of flattering, you know, and cute,

you know at the time. You know, it's only after years and years of years of retrospection that I put a different kind of different color on the whole procedure.

so uh. We had a u a regular love affair. And I gotta say this right off because everybody always thinks that know what they're talking about, and they're wrong. I had sex with John and it was as plain vanilla as you can imagine. There was nothing funny about having sex with John Schaeffer. And I don't. I know,

it's hard to believe. We learned these theorems, and we learned these overall generalities when we studied the textbooks, and then to me, all that learning gets away, It gets in the way and blocks the case that's standing right before you. So that's one thing I have learned to strive for. I studied the literature, but I tried very hard to set it aside when it comes to the case before me and allow it to be what it is. So there you go. John was an outdoorsman. He liked

to go fishing, hunting, and he had a boat. He liked to go out on the boat. His family was very respectable. They belonged to the yacht club and the country club. And he had one girlfriend before me for five years since she was a debutante, so he was her debutante escort at all the high society functions in town. So that was the boy I knew. He liked to play golf. He took me out shooting and taught me how to handle a weapon. He took me out on

the boat into the golf stream. We got stranded on a sidebar once and didn't get home until four and m in the morning, and appearance rather freaked out, But in general it was just a teenage dating, going to dances of football games and what like that. Toward the end he became a drag. He was upset and instead of going out and having fun, it would be like a like always. He's a psychotherapist or something, and he

wanted to talk about his problems, so much. And the picture that remains in my mind is just this one vignette that we used to go out in his whole car. We had a blanket, We go out on the beach

and sex and stuff. So in this vignette that that presaged the end of this, we're sitting out on the beach, but we've got the blanket over our shoulders and we're huddled under it like two little lost children and or something, and he's just crying, well, he's crying and upset because he is being pestered by unwanted, intrusive thoughts of killing women. And he wants to kill women. And I don't know he's telling this to me because some of his closest companion.

But I want you to understand that I didn't have I'm not in any position to do anything that the casual armchair observer might think I should have done. Years later, I consulted with the homicide chief and the chief of detectives there, and Fort Lauderdale told him that John I told me he wanted to kill women, and I said a lot of people they accused me of failing to call the cops on him, and they reassured me that no such thing was possible. Cops do not respond to

reports as someone saying they want to kill. Cops only respond when the crime has been committed. And if I were to call the cops on him, they would not take a report. But in fact, it didn't dawn on me to call the cops on him because I didn't think he was a serial killer. I just thought he was my boyfriend who was supposed to take me out and show me a good time, and he was a drag. Pretty much.

And then tell us a little bit about that reaction to that.

was a pretty interesting time. And anyway, there was that. After that, I went on mostly interested in being a singer and bands stuff like that, continue to write poetry to earn a living. I was working for a terns and doing legal research and writing, and eventually that phase drifted into technical writing along the way. So that was the kind of background I had. I had been in singing,

show business and everything. And I got tired of hearing this refrain which goes, there's no pay, but it's great exposure. I don't know if any any of us have ever heard that one, even oh yeah, but I spore to god, I was never gonna you know, I'm like scool Era, you know, I'm never going to hear that again, you know. And so I set off toward writing. And that occurred in nineteen eighty nine when I decided to enter true crime.

As far as writing, I'd been doing legal write. Everything is under a structure called work for hire, which means you don't put your name on it, they pay you to write something for them. And that was worked for hire. So come eighty nine then I was like, oh, okay. There was a crazy little thing called Reaganomics. And for a whole year I wasn't able to get the contracts that I'd always gotten. Every time I pitched a contract

to a client, I got it. And all of a sudden, this year I couldn't do anything right, and I was like, what it didn't dawn on me. It was the economy. I thought it was me. So by early eighty nine, I said, look at this. They killed Ted Bundy and everybody was going crazy. Bundy, Bundy, Bundy and serial killer, serial killer, serial killers. It was in everywhere you looked her And I said, well, what is this? And I read that book by Anne Ruled the Stranger beside me

and I said, shucks. I said, I can write better than that. And I said, plus, she barely knew that guy. I knew a serial killer a lot more than that. And that was the thought process that led me to contact Drord John Shaffer in prison on February seventh, nineteen eighty nine. And so that was the starting gun.

of beach funny in me. And Uh then I went to a new College of Florida's uh honor College's called an experiment in education back at the time, and uh there was no set curriculum and there was no grades. You just had to jump in there and really do or they it was pass or fail. So there was one hundred narc class and only thirty three finally graduated

out of that one hundred students. So at that process I learned to structure my own studies and theories like go from the particular to the general, go from the general to the particular. So when I set out to do Shaeffer, I said, this is a serial killer, so I need to read all the literature on serial killers. I need to consult the experts, and I need to get uh study some more serial killers who I know

how to compare. And so I contacted the FBI and I said, I'm gonna study this serial killer and I wanted some help, and they referred me to Roy hazel Wood, who became my personal mentor. And Roy hazel Wood was so good to me over the years. They had these white papers that they issued to FBI agents, and he sent me the list of them. He said, any of them you want, let me offen them to you. And I had his home number to call him consult him, and he come I needed to, and he visited me

in my home. He had me as a special guest at seminars and backstage at a a murder trial. He uh had me a Meetneer and so it that was a big influence over the way I went about this. And I'm gonna say, I'm going to boil it down. Of course, there's the longest story in the world, so I'm trying to only touch the real plot points. The first foremost thing he told me is exactly what they told creeson the movie, which was, don't ever tell him anything personal because he'll find a way to use it

against you. And the second principle, do not respond emotionally to anything he says, because he is going to be trying to get a reaction out of you. And you must keep a dead pan demeanor. And those two things guided me. And the part about the dead pan demeanor, that's what really drove Schaeffer into the frenzy that became Killer Fiction, because he kept trying to shock me and discussed me as fault me with this stuff he was writing. It was written at me, and so I held to

that do not respond. And so there you go. That's the biggest dynamic of that whole thing right there in a nutshell.

I'm not in love with you. So anyway, he wanted to do a book or what you know, And yeah, he had a lot of grandiose ideas and the book was a matter of him trying to manipulate me and me manipulating him. Because he wanted the gratification of the sexual attention, and I wanted a story. And the story I wanted was a story of guilt, and I want to know what you did and why you did it. And so I played to his vanity. We right, Oh, you're such a good writer, John. But then I would

challenge him. I say, you know what, your characters are a lot of like they're kind of wooden, really stick figures. And I said, why don't you try to bring out something more real and a character? Oh my god. So he writes to death real, death Row and made in Virginia, and he said, his name is Crystal Beaver's and he's a sixteen year old prom queen who is organization called Justice Now, and that means all you people on death

row need to go ahead and get executed quickly. And so he started writing to these death row inmates in that tone, very sexy, flirtatious and challenging. And he caught that whole death row in Virginia in an uproar until it became a behavior issue. And then the monitor of death Row, Joe O'Dell wrote to me and said, all right, Crystal Beavers, what do you think you're doing. And I wrote back to him and I'm like, you know what, there is no Crystal Beavers. It's gerorge On Shaeffer and

you know so forth. Well, it turns out joe'dell had been down there in prison with gerarge On Shaeffer in Florida Day Prison previously. He knew him, he knew him, he'd been in prison with him, and he knew some of these other characters that were trying to get me to pay attention to them. I don't know how to put it, but so Odell that became a whole other thing with him Shaeffer trying to get them all worked up in a frenzy. And Shaeffer's like, oh, is that real enough for you?

he was in high school and lived there. They would put seized and putting evidence, and those are the writings that convicted him of murder. Okay. Now you would think logically that to be evidence and a murder it would have to say, uh, you know, I killed ex victim and here's how are what I did and none of that, so that nature at all. All those had been meant

many years before the crime. And I think, after thinking about there's quite a lot, I think the genre would best be described as jack off fantasies because specifically, I say that because there were so many of them that just trailed off that he didn't finish. Okay, So but always the after he got to the park that was most interesting to him, and then the writing would just driple off and say he'd lose interest in it. So

Shaeffer was convicted on the basis of these writings. So when this Latter Day project, I think that William Hirns the catch me. Killer was very astute when he said, I see what he's trying to do is more or less mighty the water and create the illusion that all he had ever done was right these stories. So therefore, you know, he's not guilty of murder. And I think there may have been some of that. I also think that he was just as part of his sexual disorder,

his compulsions, that he did these things. He did these writings. It was a kind of a masturbation type thing to do even if there was no audience. But since for this project the audience was me, then therefore everything he wrote was targeted at me. Is he if he were not being restrained by cuffs and chains and steel and stone, these are the things that he would be perpetrating. And since he was restrained, the only way Duke was by writing.

So it was a pose. If you really were uh, you know, quite inspired as a writer, surely something other would have caught his attention in this journey through life. But no, it always was narrowly focused. He couldn't stop writing about those things that in my research into his past, the people that were locked up to him with him there. I was able to reach a former cellmate and he was there, uh, pre trial and everything, and he told me Shaeffer was always writing, writing, writing, and he was

writing these stories and he's read them to us. He'd read them, the horrifying, uh you know, get murder stories. And then he got charged and the inmates said that he took all those stories and tore them up and threw them away. So any kind of madness that affects his mind, it does not go so far that he can't tell reality from fantasy. He there are people who

are so deranged that they really can't tell. But a successful serial killer has to be able to pull himself together and to do the mo necessary to get away with the murder so he can do it again. So you've got a different type of mind at work there. Besides just someone who's you know, morbidly fascinated on death.

He knows everything. He's a uber intelligent person because and that's evidenced by the crime that he has. So these stories are all filled.

triad to have in prison. You know, he killed girls underage, he was a cop, and he was a snitch. So you know, I mean, you really can't get much lower than that. So all of his bluster and everything was some of that must have had to have been built up from having to live in prison for quite a while, you know, to build up a front that they could

possibly offer some protection. That his activities that as a snitch were so well known in a very small community, I don't care how big the prison is, you know, and they got up, they got a hotline, you know, and so he got job as a wall clerk, and then he would go and get defendant and debrief him and everything about his crime, and then low behold, those details would wind up on the desk of the prosecutor. Oh wait a minute, now, how long do you think

he's going to be able to continue operating like that? See? So then the next trick he did that got him killed actually was when there was an actual team of legal consultants who had a hold of a defendant and he weaseled them away from him. He told him to do it for less and so he stole their client away from them, and then again he got him convicted, goten sent to death row. And his Schaeffer's classification officer

is my source for this. So that those boys were very, very popular in me and so that that is what he believes accounted for his being murdered. Before he was murdered, his cell was set on fire three different times. It wasn't because he was a snitch. I mean, it wasn't because he was a cop. It wasn't because he killed girls. It was because he was a snitch, and he just it was a part of him that could not could not be controlled, had to do it.

the at the avenue side, not the dead inside. And so he said that they took out the garbage on Tuesday. So he pulled his station wagon up right by her house and waited for her to take out the trash. And he had the accouterments in the station wagon which he mentioned to me, will hope and concrete block, a rifle, and I'm trying to think what else, but anyway, a

blanket to wrap her up. And so he was lurking there waiting for her to come out so he could take her, hit her on the head, wrap her up in the blanket, tie it, carried it into the road, put her in his daddy's little cabin cruiser, take her out into the gulf stream, and shoot her and dumper and except his father came driving by in his car and pulled up and said, hey, John, what you doing. And John's like, oh, nothing, And so he canceled the mission and he didn't do it. And that's what he

told me in nineteen and sixty four. And so then when we were working on this book, you know I've met every now and that I'd make little illusions to the things that he had told me before, but I would never say what it was. Then when we sat down in a uh in a person in person meeting, he asked me, you mentioned this before. What were you talking about? And I told him what I had just told you what he said, and he said, that's interesting,

he says, because that's not what happened. And from that he wrote the story Gator Bait, and he said that is what really happened. And UH in that he describes UH hiding him way. He enters her house and waits for her to come home from a date, kiss her

date good night at the door, and come in by herself. Now, I want to point out something at this point, if you're following his twisted logic, he's reason for doing this was because she was a whore and she was pulling him away from his righteous Catholic nature every time he went jogging by her house, her sitting out there showing off her body. The power of her was enough to derange him from his proper goodness. Okay, that is the

way he experienced it. So he called her a whole. Now, look, here's what she was doing, sitting out in her backyard in shorts and a halt, sunbathing. I mean, who doesn't do that? You see? So she didn't have to be a whore. He called her a whore, okay. And then the night that he claims he attacked her, she didn't do anything horror. She went out on the day she kissed the garden knight and came in by herself. See so it isn't you have to understand it wasn't necessarily

real whore. It was a psychological mechanism that he would use to characterize someone as the being deserving as event for his h His hatred is disgusted, and he describes what he did to her at any rate. He assaulted her, Let's put it that way. It was vulgar and disgusting. But he didn't kill her, and she continued to live. And and but the title of the of the stories gator bait, because he said, if you do what I said that I'll cut you up and you gator bait or mourning.

But otherwise if they if they said express something about their faith, he would just kill them quickly. A So he's very contradictory into when you mentioned about justification, saying that they were whoors, there were prostitutes, but in the case that you just mentioned, that wasn't a case. But he's also brags about being so open minded and experienced in the S and M lifestyle that it don't make much sense.

And there was a operative who was sent in on me and who tried to work me to my document for at least ten years, and a point where he revealed to me that he had been invited to go on this of offshore trip out and it involved recreational murder. And that is what Shaefer was writing about in these

stories I didn't necessarily include in Killer Fiction. There a whole bunch of more stories, and they revolve around the idea that the women or girls were sex trafficked and then whenever they were used up, that the privilege of killing them would be sold. It would be part of what he called the fleet trade. Well, I didn't publish that stuff. I never heard anything like that before, and

in the intervening years. It's kind of creepy that, you know, I really didn't question him about it, like what really happened about that? What do you really know or anything. I just kept on and encouraging him to write more. You see, I wanted the data, and I had to divorce myself from my natural personal reaction to it. Now, I'd like to talk for a second about the thing

you were picking up on, which was contradictoriness. And I want to say that when Elton Schwartz took his case to defend him, he was going around trying to talk to anyone who ever knew him, and he commented for the record that he thought Schaeffer must have a split personality, because everyone who knew him saw no indication of any of this kind of a character. And in those days we did not have the diagnose of multiple personality disorder

which has now become dissociative identity disorder. However, from my dealing with Schaeffer in real life and going on day to day with you know, activities of daily living and so forth, I would have to say I believe that he did have a dissociative identity disorder because he had clearly contradictory identities and he would switch and I have letters from him in which he would switch on the same page.

just leave it to me. I had to develop what I call a multiple interface to where whenever this character would come at me, I would have to immediately respond on that frequency and don't really make any who have diference to the other contradictory presentations don't confront him with that because there's one thing it will drive a fragile person into a spasm of lack of control is when

you break the fantasy. Okay, So if his fantasy right now is that he's a framed X cop, you don't just really want to just jerk him out of that and all of a sudden remind him that he claims to be the greatest killer of women in the century. You just kind of have to be reactive to where he is. And I say that because of what you call trial and error. I say that because I made mistakes, okay, And so it wasn't that I was so at this

or anything like that. It's that I had to do it, and so I tried, you know, saying you're a liar and look what you said yesterday and all that kind of stuff, and eventually I had to get practical and deal with what was in front of me.

Welcome bonut, that's Chumbuck Casino dot com and live the chumber line.

and from every letter that he sent you. That's evidence that's evident in the book itself.

the blacks, and I I it. It broke me. I snapped, and I s I. I took what he wrote me and I bawled it up and sent it. I screamed, scribbled all over it and sent it back and said this is disgusting. And uh, he got so excited, and he was like, oh, finally he got a reaction from the media, queen, you know, And I was like, oh, no, you know, that's exactly what hazel Wood warn you about, you know, but uh I, once I went through that, that is when I decided it was even more important

that I published it. Now, I want to tell you something else. I was working for an attorney at the time, and his law office was a First Amendment UH law office represented like the New York Times and other papers and defense actions, right, but he was an expert, and he also taught constitutional law at the college. So when I got this put together manuscript, I asked him if he would look at it and tell me what is

this and what should I do with it? And we discussed was a pornography and he said that it was a pornography because pornography by the courts was almost always a visuals that they did not bother with straight text as far as how pornographic it might be. So he said he wouldn't worry about that. And he said the most curious thing to me, Dan, He said, if you don't publish this, you will be doing serious harm to the First Amendment. And I was like, what.

this stuff in Florida State prison. But when I typesaid it and sent back to him, it was seized and called pornographic filth and he was thrown in the hole for thirty days for having it.

with you so you can investigate me? And they said, no, that's not how it works. So that went along, and they kicked me out of Florida State Prison. And then they transferred Schaeffer down to Belglade, which I said, lower security, and it was down there so he could go to a hearing. And while he was there, they let me in to visit him at Belglade, and so that way I got quote unquote on his visiting list. Okay, so when he listened back to Florida State Prison, there I

was on his list. See well, that made them extremely angry. So they told I was in Atlanta. I call, said him on my head down there and visit him. I just wanted to check as he available to receive visits. No, no, come on down. Everything's like, come on down, come on down. I wait in the line. I get up there and they said, well, sorry, this London, you're not allowed to enter this prison. I said what I called yesterday, you know, right. So it went from there. It went on.

to be bothered with you. And then he's like, oh really, and he's like, whoa, you will miss out on your chance of a lifetime to have a real serial killer, and you know all this and all this, and I'm like, yeah, uh huh. At that point he offered up artist Tool, whom he had comed into working with me by telling him I was going to send him money, which was a lot. And so he says, oh, I've got otist Tool for you. Isn't that great? You can have a real serial killer. And that went off on another tension.

As for him, he started the next phase of his assault, and this one you would describe as uh, I'll prove to you that it's worth your time to stick around with me.

I said to him, John, Okay, that's it. I'm convinced you're a serial killer. Okay. So that was fine except for his other personality okay, And that was where we started the next phase, which was to threaten me and threaten my child. Uh. I had a personal friendship with a touring musician that I never mentioned to him. He sent me a letter with that musician's tour date, sent it and said he's not safe either. He sent people in on me personally to drop off threatening messages. Uh,

tuck them in my in the winch. You'll wipe out my car and uh, he also started a program of sending out UH all these statements he UH found willing publishers. UH for example, Fatal Visions in Australia, and they published a a curse that he put on me, who wrote this law elaborate satanic curse against me. It's still out there somewhere, and uh, oh, I gotta tell you this, this, it's just terrible. One day I got a call from Roy Hazelwood. Oh hi, woy good to hear from you. Well,

he says, UH, not so good. He says, so, what do you think our boy's up to now? And I said, oh no, and he said, oh yes. He Shaeffer had sat down and he had written to every cop shop that he can find in his book of cop shops and sent them a statement saying that UH contacts son for London Media Queen to find out details of homicides in your jurisdiction. Sontra London is close personal friends, on

an intimate relationship with Roy Hazelwood. Okay. And when Roy told me that I like to died, I like to die write them there, I'm like, oh no, I never told him anything. He said, I know, I know, and he said, I'm not blaming you, But I just thought you ought to know whoa And I was so ashamed, and I was so embarrassed, and this is the kind

of stuff he was doing, you know. And it was just that Roy Hazelwood was big minded enough and he knew me well enough that he didn't just drop a bomb on me or something.

that you're dealing with multiple personality. And only if you can really really go in there and wrench your mind open for just a minute, just try it for one minute and try to allow that these mutually exclusive states of mind both exist there. Now, I'll tell you something that is in the book. And it happened. And so I sat down with him, if face to face, and this is before they kicked me out, and I said, John,

why are you doing this? Why are you sending out all these letters to these people when on you got me all winded up telling them you're an innocent framed cop. Why are you sending them these letters saying that that you're gonna confess the homicides? And he said, you don't understand because you're not a serial killer, and I'm like, hmm, you're right about that. Then he started trying to explain, and it really got through to me. And I don't know if it would get through to anyone else who

hasn't actually been there. Actually I had to go through this, but it did get through to me. And he said this. He says, it's like you're in your room upstairs and I'm down the ground trying to get your attention, and I'm throwing rocks in your window, and you're picking the rocks up off the floor, and they're all different colors and you can't figure out where they're coming from because they're all different colors, and so he kind of pauses,

and again then Leen's forward. He stares me in the eyes. I can still see it now, and he speaks with pauses like I'm going to see now, and he says they are different colors because they're coming from different places. And there was just something about that that opened up my mind to what I was dealing with, and I found it very useful later when I had to deal with Danny Rowling. And the thing about the images of the rocks that are different colors is that they are

not They don't mix. They don't mix. They're not a fluid, they're not a sand. They remain distinct. Each rock remains distinct from the other, and there are hard borders between them. And I just think if if you could just get that image, I think sometime it might help you to understand what you're dealing with if you are dealing with one of these kind of people. I don't know, it just helped me.

when they're talking about like ritual crime. You know, Autist Tool did this Auto do and it was written by Schaeffer, and I could, uh, I could tell you that from one hundred miles away, and an Autist Tool doesn't have that kind of a Florida imagination or ability to express himself. And uh, surely Autist Tool had his own, very very profoundly disturbed case. But it wasn't what Shaefer said it was. It was all Shape was saying that. And as far

as Bundy, it just fits Shaffer's grandiose profile. To take something and build it up like that, uh doctor Seue's story, and to see say and to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street, remember that one. Each time he tells that the story gets wilder and wilder, And to me, that's kind of like his creative process. Like when I told him that these characters weren't in a personality, he turns one into a real person in rights to real

killers and says they should be killed. You see. So they said, well Bundy was there, Oh yeah, I was with him, you know, and nobody can really prove he was with him. I talked to his crossication officer and he said he could have been with him. He could have been transported with him on permanent quarters with him. It could have happened nice and yet it also could have not happened.

his son's his disappearance. That's number one. Number two, John Walsh and his wife Reva were carrying on one of those operations similar to what our friend Epstein was doing, where they were getting tape to blackmail people sexual situations. And it just so happened that when the boy got snatched, Ms Reva was going on an assignation with a job. Okay, So therefore police had to go into their little black book and interview all the people who had crossed into

that that operation. Okay, And that is what was in the police records. Okay.

And they didn't publish the tape I have and the tape is real and and w and I I interviewed artist myself and uh he was very very real about what he had suffered in the in the life of a ritual crime that he had uh endured with uh unbelievable. I'm just saying that Shaffer hijacket, Okay, And and there was another tape of that I arranged a uh tool where the guy said, what about Shaffer? Schaffer? He says Shafer he says he's scared of death in me. He holds out of his hand. He said he's shaken just

like this when he talks to me. Okay, so look here's what we got. We've got a big bullshitter. Okay, I I he's uh a con man and a bullshitter. And it's interesting to the true crime community because he is not just a casual bullshit or he's not HP Lovecraft. He is a real criminal. And these are really the way his thoughts go. And it took someone like me to not allow it to be censored because these thoughts

are going on all the time. Probably other writers have uncovered material this disgusting, similarly disgusting, but they wouldn't publish it because they wanted to have a popular book that a lot of people would read. And this book, it's hard to read or hurt your feelings. And he just doesn't give anybody a break. And when I look at the way these people get all excited about what is Suman calls me the wrong prona for what I think I am. You know, I'm just like, look, honey, don't

even pick up this book. Okay, just don't even think about the title, the author anything because talk about your feelings being hurt. You know, you won't get through half a page. And it's really published in the interest of being research material for people who are seriously in need of understanding the criminal mind. Okay, it's not recreational. It's not a Disney ride where you get on you feel a lit Lulu Lulu, but you know you're safe, you know, and the ride is going to be over. It's not that.

that's really his payoff. And I can tell you this. I edited Shaeffer and I tried to influence Shaeffer. I told Shaeffer, Look, John, I said, Uh, all that stuff about murder and killing, that's great. We like to hear about that. We you go on in about PP and coca as if we don't. I said, we are adults, we're grown, We're not interested in PP and cocka, okay, so just knock it off. Well, as soon as I tell him knock it off, of course, he redoubles it.

And so I find myself, well, look, John, you write it, I throw it away. That's what's gonna happen. So just if you're going to still continue to write that stuff, I'm still going to continue to throw it away. So believe me, I threw away a lot of it. And what you see in there, I only let it be in there if it absolutely was part of the plotline. Okay, And what you see, believe me, I've taken out five times as much because I told him, we're just just disgusting, Yes.

and he geez, it's been you know, ten years. And he wrote that in his letter to his mother upon first being arrested. I was the one he couldn't forget. Well, I'll tell you a little about about how we broke up. Maybe it's a pertinent to criminological studies. I had some friends who happened to be boys. They were not any kind of romantic, they were just friends. And they didn't like Shaeffer. And they had this cute guy that went to college nearby, and they said, let's introduce her to him.

Maybe she'll fall for him. And they did and I did, and he became my new boyfriend, cute as he could be. And he was a college boy, right, And I'm telling John, okay, well that's it, you know, goodbye, so longside and aurah baby and so forth. His quote to me was I'll get you back. Why you know that, I would never think in a million years that he meant anything other

than he would like to be my boyfriend again. Only in deep retrospect or I think of the double meaning between that and the other meaning of the phrase I'll get you back, and then when I talked to him. I had a conversation with him sometime in that following year, and he told me that he was hiding and watching when I came home from my date with my new boyfriend. We sat out in the car. Next he told me he was out there watching me.

He does and in in the same again in the same month or in the same letter against against.

I finally went to where they had it and then they wasn't going to let me in, and they said this is only for media, and I says, well, I am edia, I'm reporting for a current affair. And their little local newspaper reporter that they knew so well, she said, she is, I've seen the story, okay, And so they had to let me in. So they let me in.

So there was one of the local reporters who told me this later, and he told me he had three sources on it, and he said the reason that was moved three times, and all that was because they had word that Danny Rowling was going to break out. He was going to hold me hostage and break out, okay,

And they was Shaeffer. Shaeffer told them that Shaeffer told them that, okay, But besides, that is the stupidest thing, Like you don't have metal detectors, you know, Like you don't have a whole place full of armed guards, you know. And then someone else made the joke if he was going to kidnap someone, why not Kidna's someone that someone that people cared about. Why he said, okay, but I'm just saying that's how far Shaeffer kept on and on and on. I want to tell you one more thing.

Remember I told you he was transferred over there to the Belglade prison, and while he was there, he gave thought to following a guilty plead to all his murders and then he would tell me everything. And he said he I didn't want to do that less it was okay with his mom. So his mom and I came together to visit him at the prison, and I sat with them as he presented this to her and said, Mom, what if I plead guilty, would it be okay to

you and everything? And she pretty much said yes, sure, I don't care, you know, And so that was what he was supposed to do. He was kind of supposed to plead guilty now because mom said it wouldn't bother her, right, But you know you have to yet to see all this stuff goes on behind the scenes. You can only put so much in one book.

you let him go out of print. And I had complaints about both of those books, about the way they were typeset, and they never gave me a blue line proof to examine and just run them to print. And now he said, no, oh no, no, not that this, you know, and look this okay they had Adam said, well, we'll fix it on the second run, and what they did was never did a second run and left them like that, never advertised them. A lot of people would go looking for these books, couldn't find them, even on

the Faraoh House website, couldn't find them. Write to me and say where can I get these books? And I have similar letter to Pharaoh House and say, look, people can't find the books and everything's nothing. Nothing happened. So anyway, now I put through a request, a formal request, and I got the copyright back from the Making of a Serial Killer, which is the book about Danny Rowling, and so I am right up to the end of that book to put I'm going to put it out myself

on Amazon and a ninety nine percent done. I just have a couple of finishing touches to put on it, and that it's going to be the second edition of the Making of a Serial Killer, which is the story of Danny Rowling. And it's pretty much like the first edition, folks, except there's a lot more illustrations, and the type setting conventions I established are now actually implemented instead of disregarded, and so it'll be better. But anyway, it'll be ready soon.

And I like books I don't care about e books, So you'll be able to get an actual book of the Making of a Serial Killer really, really, really really soon, I promise. Then as soon as I get that out, we'll complete the next volume, Beyond the Killer fiction, because, like I mentioned a minute ago, you do a lot of work on a case, only so much can go on a book, and that's twice as much for Danny Rowling. I have a ton of new material on Danny Rowling,

and I have it already compiled. I've already got four hundred pages, but I have two interviews I want to do to add to it, and with some more artwork, and that will kind of afterwards. It's all the covers on the verbs are done. Oh, let's say, probably eighty five percent of the text is already in dot said, and all a little bit more to do on it, So those are really going to be coming out. As soon as I can get the second edition of the Making of a Serial Killer done, I will get that out.

Then I will set to work finishing up Beyond the Making of a Serial Killer and what I'd like people to do who want to be notified about this. I have a website. It's called Sondra London dot com. And on that website you can see a lot of examples of my work. You can read them, and you can send me a message on the contact and you can say, let me know when that book's coming out, and then you'll go on a list and I will let you

know when that book comes out. Now, once I get those two, those those two are like, you know, they kind of like Sime. These twins. Beyond the Making of the Serial Killer picks up where the other book leaves off. So then after that we'll get to Schaeffer and you will they have a similar structure. I'm just gonna do a second edition of exactly what we have here, but with some of the jeez, I've been reading it over.

There's so many type posts I can weep. But anyway, it'll just be pretty much what it is, except you can get it as a book, which is what I like books. And then after that I will continue on with Beyond Killer Fiction, which is going to contain a lot of this story I left out, like what I was telling you about the freak trade, about the white you know, when he let me just interject, you don't mind. I know we're probably running out of time. But I'm

jumping back. Yes, remember when he tied up those two girls and they got away. Part of what he was doing to terrorize them, wanted to cause fear. Was telling him that they live about white slavery and he was going to put them in white slavery. And John in fact, did travel to Morocco, to five continents plus Canada, did a lot of traveling, and he kept saying had something

to do with white slavery. Well, again, you know, I didn't probe, but it just seemed to be grandiose and really be on the scope of what I wanted to encourage him. And you know, I didn't want to get him off onto a wild thing when there were real, real cases here. So I've kind of let it go. But I think it's historically relevant and it would be good to have those on the public record. Those things that he said were real. I mean, he wrote them as fiction, but he also wrote me letters saying it real.