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You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. In January of nineteen ninety five, seventeen year old Vizette Martinez met Grammy winning musician and record producer R Kelly at a
venture mall in Florida where he was performing. At first, It's seemed that her hopes of becoming a professional singer were about to come true when he offered to help boost her career. However, this mentorship quickly turned into sexual grooming,
leading to years of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. After struggling to free herself of the relationship and rebuild on her own Lyzette's successful new life far away from the entertainment industry was interrupted in twenty seventeen by allegations against R. Kelly by other women This led to her coming forward to the authorities with their own history of abuse by
the Music Icon. In January twenty nineteen, she participated with other survivors in a documentary series with Lifetime called Surviving R.
Kelly. It should have been a healing and left them feeling abandoned and fearful for their lives. In August twenty twenty one, Kelly went on trial in New York on racketeering and sex trafficking charges, who was found guilt fee of all charges. The book that we're featuring this evening is Jane Doe number nine, How I Survived R. Kelly, with my special guest, author, survivor and activist Lizette Martinez. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for
this interview. Lizette Martinez, Thank you, Hi, thank you for having me. Thank you so much. This is a remarkable book and a remarkable window into something that we just we only think that we may understand. So congratulations on this book. Before we even start, let's get to.
You.
Say. At seventeen, your family moves to Miami Beach and you're a senior in high school. Tell us about your best friend, Michelle, but more importantly, tell us about your what kind of family you come from, and what's going on at that time, and just tell us about your background and your family's backgrounds.
Okay, well, I'm from originally from New York. We're Puerto Ricans. We moved to Miami Beach from Hollywood, so that was like the third high school that I had gone to, which was kind of tough. You know, it was moving around a lot. Things weren't very stable at home. My parents were very hard working but having a really rough time. There was some situations going on at home. And I only say this so that the readers and your listeners can understand where my head space was at during that time.
There was a lot of commotion going on in the home, but wonderful parents. They tried their best. We moved to Miami from a big house in Hollywood till to a little tiny studio where it was my brother, my younger brother, my stepfather, and my mom and myself living in a one room apartment. So I was really, you know, a kid that was kind of like embarrassed. I couldn't bring really friends over and I just really wanted to be
out of the house. Everyone was in each other's hair, It was a typical you know, it was a typical family. We we were happy. You know, my mom struggled a bit with with alcohol and so sometimes there were fights in the house. She's a phenomenal woman, but you know, there were things going on that I really didn't want
to be around. My best friend Michelle. We've been friends for since we were twelve years old, and she was like a mother to me, and I tried to spend as much time out of my house so I would always, you know, hang out with her. When we were seventeen, when I moved back to Miami and we were together again. So it was a good time. Despite all that that was going on, I had my best friend who was very strong and still to this day very strong.
You talk about you were in high school, but you talked a little bit later in the book. But I think we should talk about it now in terms of did you experience any abuse when you were young? Before we talk about that abuse, or after we talk about that abuse, we can talk about what your aspirations were, what you had in mind for a career in your life.
Even as a yes, I mean I always love you know. Linda rods Stamp Bette Midler Reata Franklin. I love music. My dad is a lot and percussionist and so music, you know, I was always around music. His cousin was a very famous drummer who played with Dizzy Gillespie and all these jazz giants. And my mother was an Acro Cuban dancer. So music was always around. And the arts, you know, my uncle was an actor and and so I had a lot of dreams. I really wanted to
be a performer. I wanted to be like Gloria Stefan, you know, at that age, I just loved her so much, and I had a great voice, and so I really thought that I could make it. You know, I had a lot of dreams. Despite all the turmoil and like you said, the abuse and stuff that happened to me at a young age, I saw myself being different. I felt different. I felt that I could make it with anything that I wanted to.
You know, right, what about that abuse when you were young? What are these just to not dwell on these events, but what are the kind of pivotal events that people abused you when you were young?
You know, A close family friend when I was around six or seven, and then it happened again with a babysitter, and then it happened again with another family friend. So I had already experienced some abuse there, sexual abuse, and it marked me, you know, but I still was kind of a happy kid despite that. You know, my mom kind of like she knew, she knew what happened, and she defended me. So I was okay, you know, I thought I was okay.
Yeah. Now it's January nineteen ninety five, like we say in the introduction, and you're seventeen years old and you're with your bestie Michelle, and you're at the said Adventure mall in Florida. So who's there with you? And what are you guys doing? And how's it come to be that you even recognized R Kelly?
So it was just a typical day, you know, it was January, so I think we had like a Pepperriri that day. So I asked my mom to go to the mall Aventeer Mall and aventurf Florida, which is Miami, and she allowed me to and it was like four of us and my bestie was actually working at a clothing store, so we said, let's go visit Michelle and
that's what we did. And we're just walking around, just teenage kids, you know, your windows, shopping and and then I just see this this person with a with a with a It was a very tall man, seven feet I and and a bunch of other guys, so it was like an entourage, and he looked very important. But I had gone to and a concert a year before of R. Kelly's because I was in a singing group, an R and B group, and the manager wanted us to go see Aliyah. Aliah never made it to the concert,
so that's how I knew of him. I recognized him because we were very close to the stage and I got a really good look at him. I wasn't really a fan of that type of music. It was a like really hypersexual and my parents wouldn't like that, you know, so I didn't really care for it. But I he was a giant already in the world of music, you know. He was a great producer, and I loved Aliyah's music. So I recognized him right away, and I said to
my friend, that's I think that's R. Kelly. That looks like R Kelly.
That's R.
Kelly. And she said, why would you be at the mall and I said, I just laughed. I don't know. I guess he's at the mall. And he heard me and turned around and came straight up to me and gave me a big old hug and asked me my a like first CUP was like, oh, how are you? I'm Robert, And then it was like how do you? What school do you go to? You know, these questions, and then we said goodbye, and he said he was recording an album. I told him I was a singer
right away. I said I'm an inspiring singer and I'm writing music. And he was like, oh, really, I'm working at the studio. You know, maybe I can help you. And I was like really, like son, you know, like here it is. My dream's about to come true. And he just said goodbye, and I said good aye, a nice meeting you. And I kind of just left it like that, and then his bodyguard returned like a few minutes later with a piece of paper with his with Robert's phone number on it and said, oh, R Kelly
would like you to call him. And I just took the paper and I was just like shocked.
And when Michelle came out, m h, what did Michelle. Yeah, what did Michelle have to say about this? What did she advise?
Well, she she was uh, she said, what's going on? And she came off out of work and I just told her what happened and she goes, yeah, I saw, and she says, maybe you should call him. This could be your big break. You know, he helped Aliyah, And that's really what we thought, you know, we just had that in our minds, not realizing he was a creditor, you know, at that point. So then we went to meet him after a few hours later.
You talk about that. Let's tell our audience about that, because it's just odd and it sets the stage for how your relationship really is, despite what you might have wanted it to be, but what it really is. So he calls you and says to meet you at this meet them at the Sports Authority. So tell us about this, this date, this first interaction with him.
So we get ready, we get dressed, We have a friend drive us to the Sports Authority, which I guess they were shopping there, which is near right across from the Averton Mall. And so I arrived. I was so nervous. I didn't know what was happening. But you know, I was going to give him an all because I really
wanted to help my family more than anything. I also, like, I really wanted to help my family get out of the situation that they were in, and so I felt like if I could make music and get a recording contract, everyone's problems would be solved, you know. So I so we went to meet him, and it was like a bunch of guys and Aliah's uncle, Barry Hankerson was there. So we felt like, you know, we knew about We spoke about the rumors, Michelle and I about him and Aliyah,
but back then there was on social media. They put us to sleep very quickly. You know, they put that to bed very quickly. I mean, he was making a lot of money for a lot of really important people, so that went away quickly, you know what I mean. So, and I say this because when we when we sat down, Michelle asked him right away, did you marry Aliah? I almost died because it was like she's so old, you know,
But that was the right question. I mean, she was right, you know, And he said, don't believe everything you hear, and then he introduced us to Barry as Aliah's uncle. So we said, okay, well, I mean, why would her uncle be with him managing him if he did that to his knee? So that is the logic in my mind, you know what I mean, like, why would anyone still be, you know, working with this person if that was true. So we just said okay, m hmm.
Yeah. You know what I thought was just interesting and fascinating and sort of just very cinematic, was you go into this outback steakhouse. Again, not a super fancy place, but you go in there and your friends from high school are working in there and quizzing you on what you're even doing in there. They can't believe the superstar in a restaurant.
Yes, yeah, they couldn't believe it. Everyone was a big deal and and yeah it was a simple restaurant, you know, and everyone was just like, what are you guys doing here? And we're just like Michelle tells them shut up and keeps walking. It's funny. I mean, the book is the book is something else.
Right right now? He talks about going to the studio right away. Do you guys go to the studio right away? And if so, what happens? Tell us about that incredible.
So yeah, so we sat down and then I sang for them and everyone clapped and Barry Hankerson said, oh, you did so well and you're a really good singer. Let's go to the studio, Robert said. So we head to the studio, and I'm like, we're really going to the studio, you know, like it just seems crazy and so off the wall bizarre, like this is really happening. I mean, I was so excited. But during the dinner, I want them to know that he put his hand on my on my leg, and that was kind of
like wet red flag a little bit. It brought me back to like what had happened to me as a child at that moment. But then I was like, I'm just gonna you know, I just put his hand aside, and he didn't, you know, he just stopped. So I just felt like, Okay, let's just keep going and I'm with my best friend and nothing's gonna happen to me. Let's just see what happened.
Right.
So we get to the studio, right. So we get to the studio and right away they separate Michelle and I. They took her to another room where there was a TV and pool tables her his cousin was talking to her. And then Robert took me into the studio room and he started playing music and then I started singing, and then there was a kiss out of nowhere, which was I didn't kiss back. I just froze, and then he said, oh, I'm sorry, and and then he just went back to
his music stuff. And then I said, I think it's time for me to go home. And Michelle came out and she was very upset that she wasn't like, you know, they rushed her away from me, right, And when we got home, she said, I don't know about it. You know, he's kind of creepy. And I hadn't even told her about the hand or the kiss yet, and right, yeah, so that was the beginning.
You say about the next day he calls and he says I want you to come back, or he calls you later and says I want you to come back tomorrow. You got a swimsuit, you know how to swim, you can teach me. And then of course you just bring your swimsuit and he just watches you right, right, And his.
Thing was I don't swim, because first it was let me teach you, and then it was I don't swim because a friend of his had drowned when they were kids, and so I I don't know. It was really really weird, but it was a strange time, you know, thinking back as an adult, he was just a total predator, you know, but he was acting like he was juveil like a kid, you know, so you kind of feel like you're with hanging out with someone that you would be hanging out
from high school, like a high school senior. It's so weird, you know, at times he's like a predator and then the other times he's just like a kid. Which I don't understand that he.
Knew you had a curfew, so he knew you were in high school. He also you said, hey, I got a curfew and I got to go. So what was the situation in terms of letting your parents know about this and how did he end up communicating with you to be able to continue seeing you?
Well, I spent like, well, there was one time where he called right when I met him, Like you're saying, at that time, he called my house. Well, we didn't have a landline, we didn't we didn't have a phone line. The woman that owned the house, that lived in the other half of the house did and somehow, some way
he got the phone number. I don't even know how, but he called and my parents, Yeah, it was because I was never allowed to give the number out and I would never I would just be in trouble, you know. So he called and said to the woman, I would like to be soilicette, and she said she cannot receive phone calls here and hung up apparently, so I don't
know how he got that number. It's really weird. But then he called Michelle's house and that's how I got the information from him, or I got to speak to him, because she would give me the messages at school. She would beat me, and that's how we communicated. My parents had no idea you know, what was going on whatsoever?
Mm hmm. When did you tell him that he needed to talk to your parents to be able to really be able to work with you? Oh?
Right away, right right away. We spoke about my parents and his answer to me was, you know his during the dinner. During the dinner we spoke about my parents, where I said to him, you know, my parents are very strict. They don't really like your kind of music, and he said, well, your your parents, it's not for your parents, And right then and there, I knew he
was like, that's going to be a weird meeting. But you know, when we spoke about my parents and meeting my parents, he would always say yeah, yeah, yeah, and then put it off or say that my parents are not going to understand him, that my friends are going to be very jealous of me. So he was slowly there grooming me to start letting people go in my life or to become isolated. You know, he was isolating me very early on.
Right when you're in the studio and you do offer some input, thinking that you're collaborating or you're working together or you're working on material, what kind of behavior does he exhibit?
Well, he he doesn't read or write. And I didn't know that. So I don't think any really, anyone really knew that. I mean, we had an idea that something was wrong, but because of the way he was formulating his sentences and stuff, so he sang a line and it made absolutely no sense. So I said, you know, the engineer looked at me. Everyone looked at each other like okay, and they looked scared. I didn't know why they were afraid, you know, they looked like they were
afraid to say something. I mean, like really scared. So I just said, well, this is the way you say it, and this this is the proper way of thing. And he just humiliated me, berated me, yelled at me, said oh, are you trying to get some worlds? He's off of me. And that was the first time that I saw that other, real nasty side of him. And after he did that to me, he later came back and to sit down next to me. I mean, I was in tears. I hid tochoose a bathroom and just get myself together because
I just felt so awful here. It is someone that I want to mentor me and they're treating me like this. You know, we were collaborating and that was about it, you know. And so after that he sat down with me and starts with the talking about his mother and how she passed away and how close they were and starts crying. So I think, like, if it's typical abuser, you know, like daberat you, they humiliate you'll hit you, they'll you know, emotionally abuse you, and then want sympathy.
And that's basically how that situation was, and I was just like, you know, I kind of like I saw these behaviors around me prior to meeting him, and it's like a pattern in life. Start learning these behaviors and start accepting them, because that's just the way you think it is.
You also experience a couple times when you talk to his cousin mac Or. There was a time when you were in the studio and he was working with a rapper and you just exchanged words. You just had a brief conversation. What does he do when he takes you aside? What does he have to say to you about it? About this?
Well, he.
Did not like me to even look at another man around him if we were sitting. I mean, it was all men. I was not allowed to bring us altrin with me, and so I just laughed at something and he just took me out inside and just hit me and just totally abused me and embarrassed me. In this.
You know, this dream that you have of being a singing star. Now you meet R. Kelly, You're actually in the studio, you are working with him on some material, but this relationship is not consistent and so but at the same time, you are seventeen years old. You're inexperienced in relationships pretty well, and you're a virgin and this man is twenty eight years old in terms of twenty seventh for me. But yeah, in terms of in terms of your experience, in terms of what you were looking
for in a relationship. You're yearning for love in a dedicated relationship. What does R. Kelly give you.
A lot of manipulation, control, mental abuse, humiliation, And you know this wasn't a relationship. This I was a young girl who was, like you said, extremely inexperienced with a lot of things, especially males, and I was a virgin and he just set up my life and not in a good way. I just was exposed to so many things that I really shouldn't have been exposed to.
The thing is you have this where you go back to Miami, your living conditions, even though you move, you move in with your uncle, you your your aunt Carmen.
New York.
Yeah, but you do move to different locales and each time he draws you back to he always wants you to come back to Chicago. And you write that he doesn't get you to come to as many homes. It's to a hotel, room. No, what's the typical what's the typical visit to Chicago? Despite what he says is going to happen when you get to Chicago, what's the typical visit?
Like, so the typical visit was, you know, I turned eighteen, and that's when I could start traveling. I guess in his you know, legally I never traveled under age, but once graduated, once I moved to New York City with my aunt Carmen, I was able to do as I you know, I wanted to and and still thinking that we were going to keep continuing nuke working on music, but it just turned into something like totally horrible, Like you read a typical thing. Typical trip was I get there?
I was.
I thought he was going to be picking me up or sn someone that I know to pick me up. Instead there's a stranger there a car and you know, when you're that age, you're like, oh wow, you're just a limo. But I felt like, what is this? I just didn't feel right, and it was I would check into a hotel. I thought I was going to go to the home, his apartment, the studio and you know, be around him, and and it wasn't like that. I was really like a sex lely. I mean literally, he
turned me into that. That's what it was. He would come in, do what he did, abuse me, humiliate me most times, drag me down a hallway, sometimes leave me there without any credit card for food, stuck in a hotel and just there for sex.
When you get the gumption to disagree with him, what to say on the phone, when you don't answer his calls or don't submit to his whims, how does he react?
He he would abandon me. He wouldn't. He would say, Okay, you want to be like that, that's fine, and then he would disappear again for like another week. One time he came in and we had a big fight about him, the car being downstairs, and me not knowing anything about him, him not being communicating with me, me not being able to leave the hotel. I'm just like a prisoner in there.
And he dragged he dragged me down the hallway. And when security came upstairs, he was behind the door and he was looking at me, and I could feel him looking at me. I looked behind, I looked at him, and he was just said, you better not say anything like And the security guard said Are you okay? And I said yes, And then he said I don't think you're okay. Are you sure? And I said yes, I am, and I just closed the door. Yeah, that's uh, that was a horrible day. He was punishing me.
Mm hmm. Now what's the situation in terms of birth control or condoms or protection or any kind of planning.
For There was never any protection. He doesn't believe in that. He never used it, not the first time when I was on the uh, when I when they gave me alcohol and the sexual saw happened. So I ended up, you know, having a being pregnant, and I had a miscarriage by myself in the room, and he was nowhere to be found. I mean, he clearly, he made it very clear if you do that, you're going to ruin your life. Then you're going to ruin your career. He was not at all sympathetic after O before it was,
you know, my fault. And what he said was I don't like girls that I don't like pregnant girls, and I don't I don't like women that have children.
Yeah, incredible. He also said to you, you ruined your body, so you could see what that mind was.
Definitely that's the number one terrible.
Now you saw, you saw his disregard for you as as just as a human being, but even more so in this sposedly this loving relationship. You loved him, He told you he loved you. So do you learn your lesson after this? Is this enough to separate you from him? Or his grasp is is not there anymore? What happens?
No?
I always felt bad for him. I'm I'm an empass. This is a disaster situation for an EmPATH. A person who constantly can feel the other person, feels bad for them, tries to understand them. You know, I just really tried to understand him as a person and his abuse, sexual abuse. We had that in common. So I always thought, maybe you know, that's what it is, Maybe he just doesn't know how to deal with it. And I just always
put him before myself. And I became someone that I didn't even know, I didn't even recognize in the mirror. I was went from a happy kid at a mall to a sex slave in a hotel room and just being rushed around here and there and by here and there, and just give me sex, and give me an STV and and and that's what he That's what he gave to me. That's what he brought to the table. He never brought any music or never kept any promises. You
just abused me, and I'm one of many. Unfortunately, you know, I wish it would have stopped.
Then you talked about also, you talked also about the opportunities that you declined. You had an agent couple that was very interested and lined up a definitive meeting with Motown, and they said that Motown was interested. What do you do and why do you decline this opportunity? What makes you do that?
Well, at this point, I was an abused woman, you know, At this point I was depressed. He called and said that he really needed me to come to Chicago. There was something very serious going on. He was crying on the phone. And I chose him. I chose him over such an amazing opportunity. And I can't even tell you why. All I can say is he had such a grasp on me. And this happens to abuse women. You forget
about yourself. It's just so involved in this crazy, toxic situation that you know, I don't even know how I would have saying at that time, I was just so so abused, so down and he was number one. He made sure of it, and if he wasn't number one, I would be punished.
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your first month with the promo code true murder. That's one hundred dollars off when you use code true murder at talkspace dot com. Now, Lazette, you were talking about where you were in your life at this time. He had given you an STD, you had been pregnant, you miscarried, and you were alone. When you miscarried, he left you in that hotel room. Your intimate love life is not so intimate, and it's not what you would regard as
a love life. What happens next in your life that creates a big difference in your life.
Oh, when you're talking about when I got sick, Yes, So we fast forward to coming back to Miami and seeing him at a concert. We were kind of still, you know, seeing each other, and I was very hurt by him and that that whole pregnant sheet. I was very very hurt. And anyway, so we went to the I went to the concert with some friends and there were girls in the audience that I could hear saying, Oh,
I was with him last night. Oh, I was with him last night, or you know, it was like the whole day of all these young young girls, and I saw him. We spent time together after and but before that, the day of the concert, when he he never showed up to the hotel room. His manager put me in a hotel room and said, and I said, this isn't where I stayed last night, and he said, well, you're
gonna stay here tonight. And when I when I got to the room, my girlfriend was with me and we heard, like, you know, some commotion next door, like a party going on.
So she left.
She said, I have to go home, and I said, no problem. So I hear this commotion going on girls in the room, and I heard him clear his throat and I knew this guy so well. It sounds so weird, but I just knew, and I just had a feeling in my gut that that was him. And I put a cup to the door, to the to the wall to try to hear what was going on before I knock on the door because he would never answer his phone. He was just you know, the same situation all over again.
And he comes out the room and I see him coming out of the room and I see the girls and his pants are down and he looked like totally he was on cocaine and comes in the room and starts yelling and staying and I'm crying, and he's saying that I never choose his friend, I never choose him over my friends, totally flipping it on me, saying that that if I want, I could live to move to Chicago. And I was just like, no, you know, I'm good, and I left, and not too long after, a few
days later, I started feeling really sick. I was diagnosed with mono nucleosis and I was told to stay in the bed for about fifteen days because my white count was very, very very very high. And I started to feel better, and then not too long after that, a few days my body started to become paralyzed and I
got Giambaret syndrome. And I spent three weeks or two weeks, and then I see you and I almost lost my life, and he called my my I called him to tell him and he said, yeah, I'm not feeling well either. I had that and You're gonna get better. And then that was that was it, and I heard that he had canceled some the concert dates. So I'm stick in the hospital. He calls my dad's house and my step sister says, where the hell are you? What the hell
are you doing? You know, my my sister's nearly dead and he just sent a thousand dollars checks to my my mom And that was his response.
Yeah, not much of a response even financially.
No, No, we didn't, we don't. We didn't care. You know, who cares about a thousand dollars?
You know that.
The point is, like, you got me sick? You know?
Is there something he tells you in phone calls around this time as well about upcoming things in the media.
Well, yeah, there was a call that I got where he said he started. He was crying on the phone, and he said that that I was going to hear things and not to believe them, that they weren't true. And I said, well, what do you mean, Like, what's wrong with you?
What do you mean?
And he just wouldn't say it. He was just distraught, like I've never seen him before, you know, as an adult now and now understanding what was going on in that time. It had to be the lawsuit from Tiffany Hawkins or the other young lady after, you know, So that's all right, I think that is he never really told me the details of why he was the way he was.
Now, you try to build your new life and you're living with your dad, but your stepmom is there and it's a crowded house. But tell us what you do to try to assert your life back.
I you know, I went through physical therapy because I had to learn how to eat again, pick up a cup. You know. My nervous system was shot. It was a miracle that I was alive. I mean, they really told my daddy should prepare for a funeral, you know. And after, like you say, things weren't really going too well at my dad's house and there was a lot of hormones in there and too many girls. I decided to go move to Miami and live with my grandmother and I
just got my life together, you know. I got a job at the hospital and bought a little car and got an apartment and just wanted to just forget about the music business completely. My dreams were killed. They were dead, but I wasn't dead, and I was alive, and that's what kept me going. But I almost lost my life over this, and that's not something that I was ready for,
nor that I want. Despite the depression and anxiety and all the PTSD, you know, I knew that I still had a purpose to continue on and I knew that one day I was going to have to talk about this. And that's why, you know, I just want to say this. You know, people, a lot of the haters, Oh, why didn't you come out sooner? Why why didn't you ref's the case? Why didn't you sue him? Or why didn't you go to the police. I just wanted to go
out with my life. You know, I was young, I was afraid of him still, and it was never about the money for me. It was about me making myself, making something out of myself. And I got totally railroaded and used and abused, and you know, I started, I became assertive to know that it's either me or him. Either he's gonna kill me. I'm going to kill me. I don't know what's going to happen here. But it was going down to the TECH. It was get in
really really dark places there, and I just knew. You know, I'm a survivor. I survived sexual abuse as a child, a young young child, like I'm a strong woman. Let's just go keep going.
Yeah, you have twins, boy and a girl, and you hook up with a guy you knew from before was Craig, which was a nice guy, but then turns into a guy that hits you. You talk about you getting your strength, but also your sister shows up eight months pregnant. I think this is an incredible scene in the book. What does she tell Craig and where do you go?
Well, let's just you know, Craig was a guy that I knew in high SPEC's just to sit a little bit back on. Craig was a guy that I knew that I knew in high school, and he always said he loved me. And when I was with Robert, he came to New York and said he that Robert did not have the right intentions for me, that he wanted to marry me, that he Craig wanted to marry me, that he loved me, and he was always around.
You know.
After I got my life together, I met up with him again and thought, Okay, he's that nice guy. You know, he really cares about me, seems to be really nice, and I know him from high school. We were buddies in high school. So I gave him a chance, and you know, I had these kids with him, and he turned in to be another monster, a narcissist or an abuser, like you can't believe. I mean, I've been through the ringer.
He put me on my knees, on my niece on Rice as a punishment when I was eight months pregnant with his twins. And you know, my sister came and you know, she had a dream about me that I was that I was walking around in a white dress, that I was basically dead. And she came in and basically told me, pack your stuff, we're leaving. And I had a whole house and everything with my kids, and I was just like, I'm leaving. And I left him
because I was really fearful for my life. And I was so down on myself because I say, here you go again, falling into the same trap. You know, but this is this is what abused women go to. When I want the listeners to understand that this becomes a pattern in life. You know, I didn't get meant to help help after the situation where Robert I should have. I never healed from it. I'm still not heals from it.
I'm stronger, and you know, Craig's situation was one that you know, once I left him, Yeah, I left him, but I had two kids by him. It wasn't you know, as cut and dry as Robert. So you know, my sister saved my life.
Yeah, you right that I quote I'm a victim of r Kelly. I met him in Florida as an underage kid. And you say that that statement started an avalanche of changes in your life. Tell us about you emailing BuzzFeed and who who you talk to at BuzzFeed?
Sure?
So I yeah, So I had have always been following this story, you know, this first trial, and I heard of Jim deva goddess who was a music journalist, a critic and a journalist, and he has a show called Son Opinions and he's a professor, so I knew, I knew of him and I and I had read his story about the cult and about Johanda Pace, one of the other young women that met Robert at doing the first file, which she was fifteen or sixteen years old.
She's a Jane do in the in the in the last child with this trial, which is hyway he was convicted. So when I read these stories and BuzzFeed News. I reached out to them from my job at Benny Hannah and I said, I want to talk to Jim. And when I spoke to Jim, he said to me, I've been waiting for over twenty years to talk to you. And I didn't know what he meant. And he said, you're the girl from Miami and I said, yeah, I'm
the girl from Miami. And he said, well, Barry Hankerson told me to find you when the first trial was happening, because he knows he did a number on you. So we spoke and he published my story and that was just our crazy day. It was May eighteen, twenty eighteen. I felt like so liberated. But then again, you know, so many things started happening. I got of breaking in my home, I had to move. They published where I worked,
so I was afraid to go to work. So many things happened when I came out that have really not been easy. And I also, you know, want to say, like that's something that people don't understand, like when you come out, like you're giving your life away. And I gave it for the cause, you know what I mean, Like I knew, like I said why didn't sue him back then? I didn't want to sign an NBNA. I didn't want to be silent because I knew this day
was going to come. I knew that Karmel was going to catch up with Robert.
Yeah, let's this is an opportunity to stop for a second for these messages.
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Today. Now we talk about uh rob, but you also talk about the media and after the BuzzFeed BuzzFeed says they want to make a documentary now and tries to get the funding or they communicate to you that they are going to get the funding. Talk about BuzzFeed the documentary, what they wanted to do, and then how you got to the producers at Lifeline or Lifetime Pardon me?
Yeah, So I was sent a contrast over right away to sign for a whuhu documentary that was going to be produced by that was going to be the showrunner was going to be a woman named Lyric Cabral And she's an investigative journalist as well and documentarian.
And she.
She befriended me, but we didn't know that she was like an investigative person. Where she her last film she won an Emmy four was she was saying that she was there for the person, you know, like I say, she's here for me, but then it goes against me in the in the during the movie, so or you know, when the movie from Here is here, you go surprise, you know. So she she was eventually fired off the film because we had information from one of the fathers
of the young women that was still with Robert. That was on Gail King interview if anyone watched that, Azrael Clary, her father, you know, said the lyric is meeting with Robert and that's very dangerous because we don't know what information she's giving him to get the story. So she was fired off the film. Yeah, So that was really scary because she knew where I lived. She came to my house in Los Angeles. And I'm not saying she's
a bad person. I never would say that, but it was too many gray areas going on with Hulu and and that whole project. It was very stressful as well going through all of that. How I got with Lifetime was after the BuzzFeed story. They contacted me because the Savages, Joyful and Savage's parents found out about me, and they apparently brought the projects to Lifetime and so they knew of me and they called and asked if I sign on. And you know, one thing I've regret is that I
didn't have legal representation. You have to. You know, you're down for the cause. But at the end of the day, this is a big They see this as a business. It's a business to them. They profit off of survivors and they leave you stranded. And that's really the truth. And that's really why I wanted to wait and write this book. You know, a lot of the young women and that's fine. They wrote their books and they released
them right where the document documentary aired Lifetime. I didn't do that because that wasn't my intention, but living through it, and I really wanted to expose Hollywood and what they do and what they did to us and everything that we gave up and everything that we had to go through and all the hate and not protecting us online with the protection stisiness and not having security when we go to events where you know there's a gun threat
at a screening and we have to leave. I mean, we went through hell and back hell, and that it's still going through it.
You talk about a couple of things that demonstrate what you're saying, illustrate clearly what you're saying. There was a television interview where they told you to bring two outfits what happens when you go there? What did they say to you? And what in actuality happened.
So we were told to bring I was told to bring two outfits. This is my second interview, by the way, this is another eight hours of work. So to them, you know, they call it work. I call it life traumatized traumatizing situations. But so I had so they so I had like a like a little black little dress, and I said, I don't. They said, bring a black
and a white out Bring a black outfit. But I had a white, a beautiful white outfit that was very conservative, which I felt comfortable wearing on television, and they said, oh, we're the black one. It was very short, and I bought it with jeans. I had genes with me. They said, no, we're just gonna shoot from a waste up. Don't worry about it. When I saw myself on television, I could not believe that they did that to me. My legs
were all out. I mean, it just looked so inappropriate, and they made me feel so uncomfortable, like why would you do that to a survivor crying on screen and then show them like that, show me like that? And they never even apologized for that. You know, they never even said sorry. I hope after they read my book.
They do incredible and they also the film company or the documentary company. They also advised you not to take a job for this incredible opportunity, just to stand up for this cause.
Correct, I left. I didn't take a job making a lot of money in Elson's Window, California, because we were supposed to start shooting and that was Hulu and then the project was killed. So I started to clean houses on the handy app. I mean, you go from a person making like a really good salary, having a great apartment in Avncero overlooking the water, to cleaning houses. And there's nothing wrong with cleaning houses. I'm just talking about me.
How I went from one situation one to another so rapidly and really not what I wanted to do with not a career that I that I wanted to choose, but I had to live. I mean, my face is on a billboard for them for the Emmys, and I can't even put gas in the car or buy a Hamburger. I mean, really, it's you know, and you don't want to seem like it's about the money, but you put me in a situation where I can't make any money and no one really cared. I mean I even asked
them for a job. I can I help with survivors, Can I be a person on set, or can I get water? Whatever, I'll do anything. I just need a job, and it was just like, oh, you know, we don't really have any and it's fine, But I just want the readers to understand my story and how coming out impassed me in such a degree that I'm still struggling. You know, I'm still trying to get back to where I was. How many years later, three years later.
You demonstrate the techniques they use to be able to befriend you and also stroke your egos so that they understand your motivation and utilize that leverage that against you. So the money they promise is never the money that actually happens. And this is supposed to happen, scheduled shoot but it's canceled, and all of these things that it
looks hopeful but then isn't. And so they have these certain techniques to be able to convince you that they're on your side, but in the end you don't see that. The Lifetime docuseries Surviving R Kelly was about to premiere, and it was supposed to be a panel, a conversation
panel that you were involved with. Five survivors plus the Tamara or part of me Tarana Burke, founder of the Me Too movement, and there was yourself, Kitty Jones, Johanda Pace, Lisa Van Allen and as Santi McGee, all survivors seated in the theater's front row. Tell us about the anticipation of this and your presence there and what happens.
So we arrived in New York and we had to do a lot of press that day. It was weird because this is the first time that we're meeting. You know, a lot of people thought that we knew each other, and none of us knew each other before any of this happened. So we get there and you know, everyone's kind of like arguing and I don't I didn't get it,
but you know, I guess it's traumatic. You know, you're like meeting someone that has the same type of war you know, war wounds, you know, wounds that you're you're walking around with, and there's you know, women and the competition. And so we get to the premiere and We're just sitting there and we're so nervous, and I'm holding onto his ex wife's hands, she's holding my hand, and we're just looking at each other like, well, it's really about
to happen. And as soon as the film starts playing, you see my face, just see the other women, and then it's gonna it's telling his story. And then the cops come in and they're like, we have to evacuate now, immediately, excuse me, And we didn't understand what was going on. They rushed us into the into the vans, and it was so scary because you don't know what's going to happen, you know that. Then at that point it got really real for me and for the others. We didn't have security.
We should have had secure yet all times with us, that's another thing may drop the ball on, you know, after at the hotel, still no security. The next day, our names are on the cars outside, like, how does that happen? How did you not protect survivors? You guys are profiting off of us.
Who do you need security from? Though, that's the question for maybe the audience, you know, we haven't filled that in. Why would you need security?
What is happening because his it was found out and the person that called in was his manager. Was the fence indicted him. He got he called in that threat. And also there was a young one of the survivors. Her car was blown up. I had a break and in my house. The other survivor, Miss Faith Rogers had her whole family had to relocate. They were in San Antonio. They had to move because of the threats, because of all the craziness that we belie was coming from his camp.
And that takes me back to the situation with Hulu. They knew where I lived. You have a woman who's saying that she's my friend, but I don't really know she's my friend because she's an investigative documentary maker who could be giving secrets. We don't know. We couldn't trust anyone at this point. We don't know who to trust.
That's right.
Now.
A little bit after this, you say, a few weeks after this premiere fiasco, you you talked to a Gloria Alred faithbook. Roger's mom Kelly calls, and so you set up a meeting with Gloria Already tell us about this.
Well, I knew of Gloria because of who Gloria is, and she's a wonderful woman and she has quite a story herself. She's I've, you know, saw her fighting for women her entire life. And I watched the documentary on her that's on Netflix. It's very good, and I just trust her, and you know, missus Rogers is my very good friend. She's become like a second mom to me. And she said, why don't you go, why don't we go see her? And since I was in LA, I
was the first one to go talk to Gloria. And it was very weird because I'm sitting in a conference room and I'm being recorded on a computer on a computer I'm not recorded, but I guess she's listening in being interviewed by her colleague. And then she comes in right away and we start talking and she says that she believes that we have a case and that she's going to send some demand letters to him. And we became friends after that, like we're friends to this day.
It was nerve wracking. I didn't really want her to send the demand letter and I told her he's not going to do right by us, and she felt confident in that maybe he will, And there was a conversation about well, maybe if you know you don't do the documentary, he will. But for me, the documentary was important because despite all the nonsense that happened, I knew that he was going to be exposed, and an exposure that he can't run from. So I declined that and decided to let them air my interview.
Right after this. This is successful, this docuseriies, isn't it, despite the misrepresentation in your mind, in all of your minds? But so what does Lifeline or Lifetime pardon me call again about?
They call again about you mean the interviews or the second part? Yes, well, okay, so we after when it was about to air, we were summoned again to go to a lot of interviews and you know, once again that's the opening Pandora's box again. You know, you're reliving all of this again. And after that, the documentary did so well. They were nominated for an Emmy, We won an MTV Documentary Award, We won the Critics Choice Award, back to award. There was so many awards. We couldn't
believe it. I really wasn't feeling the whole red carpeting. I didn't feel like I don't feel like I'm a celebrity. I just feel like I'm just a person who decided to tell on someone who's very powerful. Getting to those events, there was really no transportation. There was no sipe in for anything, I mean, any money for any type of go and you know, when you go into these things, you have to look a certain way. And I was cleaning home, so you know, I tried my best, but
they really wanted to parade us. And that's what I got from that. We went to the Emmys and when they did not win, they just all got up and left us sitting there Jesus, all of yeah. And also at the Critics' Choice Awards, like none of the you know, the higher up, even Kim Hello, to shake anyone's hand and say hello or thank you for doing this, or it was just nothing. It was just so disrespectful.
You say that. In February twenty second, twenty nineteen, Robert Kelly turns himself in. At that time, you were a project manager at LA Forever twenty one. What happens after this we talked about in the synopsis. And he goes to trial, But what happens after he turns himself in and charges.
Proceed I'm asked to meet with the Feds. So I went to New York City with Gloria and I had an interview with them that lasted many hours. I changed smoke like crazy, and I don't even smoke. It was really scary because there was no turning back in that I had to continue to stand in my truth and tell what really happened to me. And it was hard because you know, you're just I'm just so it's like a movie. It really is like a movie. Like I never thought this is gonna unfold like this the way
it did. I didn't think that. I knew the documentary was going to hold him accountable, but I didn't know that it was going to be like this. I mean, he's facing forever in prison. It was a hard time for me. I just leave it like that.
MM. Yeah, you say, you really wrap up a lot of the feelings about this, and you talk about that they basically resold your pain worldwide and you all became victims all over again with just new kinds of predators. I thought that was really profound.
Yes, definitely.
You know.
The most disheartening thing was, you know, who does she think she is going after? A black man, and I'm like, I'll go after any man, I don't care who is if you're a predator, you know what I mean. But I got a lot of that and this white woman and I'm you know, I'm not white, I'm Puerto Rican. But what isn't matter, you know what I mean. Like I'm standing here telling you that somebody did this to me and you're not believing me. It's like it's like
we're on trial. It's like we're on trial first until he's found not until he's found guilty. We're the guilty ones. That's really what it feels like, you know. And the fake pages on Facebook and Instagram. Kill Lizette, kill Azrael, kill Faith. I mean, these people don't stop. This is a NonStop thing, and you just are afraid to even go outside. I mean there was a period where I was just in the house and during the trial, I didn't want to go outside at all. I was completely depressed.
And just like now if he's found guilty, who knows if they're going to go and try to kill us, Like you don't know, you know what I mean, because we have been through so much, Like we're all walking around with PTSD from.
This sure yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And no no offer for treatment, any kind of compensation anywhere from anyone and nowhere from anyone. And like you say, there's profits to go around, there's a lot of people going to profit off this misery.
Absolutely, you know, all these YouTubers, they make a living off of this. It's every day day. I don't know if you've seen it day in and day out, the story. They go after us, they lie on us. You know, you have you know I talk about this, you know, the Time's Up situation that happened that's in the book where they wouldn't help us. And you start to question all of these nonprofits. I mean, who are you helping? We need help? You know, we need help, but we're
not getting it. And that's something that needs to be brought to the table. And and really, you know, I think that things need to change in Hollywood as far as the rules. You know, with bags, if you're interviewing survivors, you need to have a real psychologist on site that deals with trauma to know to say the interview is over, she can't go anymore, stop pushing her. And that doesn't happen. You know, they want to do that to you. They
want to see how where they can poke you. You know, when I was doing the second documentary, the second one, because I was in contract the second one, she said to me, and I just had been after like hours of crying, she said, what would you think your life would be if you hadn't walked in that mall? I mean I had a nervous I nearly had a nervous breakdown on camera because it was just way too much, way too much.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely yes. And you you do say at the very end of this book, you say, people always ask you, and I've always asked you, why did you stay before I let you go? Which you answer that so eloquently in this part of the book.
The end of the book, I'm going to answer the way I want to answer right now, because every day it's like it's changes in my mind. I kind of dissect why I stayed. You know, I just wanted to be somebody and I could. I was a wounded person, and I still am a wounded person. But I was a wounded kid, and he was a wounded person. And sometimes wounded people don't know how to let each other go, or they don't know how to say no, there's no boundaries. It's just a free for all and I lost myself.
And that's the only explanation I have.
That says it all. I think, really does. I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking about Jane Doe number nine, How I Survived r Kelly. For those people that might want to take a look at this, I know this is a Wild Blue Press release and it's your release is just today, as a matter of fact, today, Yes, is there a Facebook page or somewhere where they might find out more information about this other than the Wild Blue Press page?
They can't. It's well, it's on Amazons and it's actually number one and new releases of Survivor Burmaar today. It's been number one for a few days now, so I'm really proud of that. And you know, I want to thank Keela McGregor, who you know, helped me with this. She's an amazing, amazing woman and amazing writer. I mean, it was a collaborative effort, but I could never have
done it without her. We worked two years on this and we really gave it our all and I really hope that people pick it up, give it as a gift. Anyone that's survived anything, or that's trying to survive something. I think this book would be really helpful. Absolutely, And I'm I'm on Instagram and it's I am Lisette Martinez and I post a lot about the book there, which we're going to do a page for the actual book probably tomorrow, but they can follow me there and find
out more about it and my upcoming events. I have a nonprofit called Delia's House, which is dedicated to my grandmother and my sister and I started it and we're going to build a home for domestic violence victim and sexual assault violence a sexual assault victims in Puerto Rico, where we're from. You know, Puerto Rico is part of the United States, but you know it's a forgotten place and there's a lot of domestic violence going on there. It's this serious, serious issues. So I'm going to give
my all to that. That's my next goal.
Great, well, that's remarkable. It's a remarkable cause that you've taken up, and it is a remarkable book. Thank you so much, Martinez. Thank you Number nine How I Survive?
Thank you, Thank you.
You have a great night.
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