ICE AND BONE-Monte Francis

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to Della's murder. Yet after a three month trial, Joshua Wade would walk free. In two thousand and seven, when Wade kidnapped a well loved nurse psychologist from her home and then executor in the remote wilderness of Wassilla, two astute female detectives joined forces to finally bring him to justice. Ice in Bone is the chilling true account of how a demented murderer initially evaded police and avoided conviction, only

to slip back into the shadows and kill again. Journalist and writer Monty Francis tells the harrowing story of what eventually led to Wade's capture and reveals why the true scope of this murderous rampage is only now more than a decade later coming into view. The book that we're featuring this evening is Ice and Bone, Tracking an Alaskan serial killer with my special guest, journalist and author Monty Francis. Welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing to dis interview Monty Francis.

crimes because that that intrigued me. And I came across this newspaper article out of the Anchorage Daily News about these six women who had been murdered within roughly the same time period, about eighteen months or so, and I decided this sort of this article was dated, you know, the year two thousands, So I decided to sort of follow through with each of the cases and see which were still which had been solved, in which had been unsolved, And I was surprised to learn that three of those

cases were still open, were unsolved. And then there was a strange thing that had happened in one of those cases you mentioned in the intro, Della Brown. She was one of the six women, and in that case, the killer had been acquitted of her murder and had gone out and murdered someone else. And then later during that second trial, that second murder, which had nothing to do with the original six, admitted that he had indeed killed

Della Brown. So I thought there was something there, and I called Desa Jacobsen, and she is a Native activist who lives in Anchorage, and she was mentioned in this newspaper article. She had gone on a hunger strike to protest the verdict in the Della Brown case because she felt that that was a terrible injustice. And she was also trying to draw attention to the fact that Native Alaskan women were being victimized in Anchorage and no one

seemed to really care. That was her view. And so I called her, you know, and keep in mind that says like fourteen years after the fact. I called her out sort of out of the blue, and she answered the phone, and I think she was quite shocked that she had about these cases, these old cold cases. I think because she felt that everyone had forgotten about them, and we just started talking, and she's sort of the one who convinced me it was a story worth telling.

I decided to take a leave from my television job and I booked a one way ticket to Alaska. People who were laughing at me because I thought, you know, that's what an adventuest thing to do, and I just went to go find out if there was a story there.

Native population. I was shocked because, you know, Desa Jacobsen, we sort of became friends, and she showed me around Anchorage. I was shocked to see how many Native Alaskan people were homeless in Anchorage and living on the streets. There's a section of town where many of them camp out

on the street out in the cold. You know. I think it was like eighteen degrees when I was there, and people were, you know, making fires and sleeping outside, and I was actually in the rental car with decent She got quite upset and she kept saying, these are the landowners, these are the landowners. And I didn't really realize what she was saying at first, but later realized what she was saying was these were the folks who were here to begin with, and now they're relegated to

living on the streets. And she found that to be very upsetting. And there is a history of racism against Native Alaskans in Alaska. If you look back sort of in the history there, you can find pictures of you whites only signs and we don't serve natives here, that kind of thing in Juno and there. There continues to be.

I mean, because a lot of these villages where Alaska and live, there is no law enforcement, there's no mechanism to report these kinds of crimes, there's no road access, there's you know, so the ones that we know about are the ones that show up the statistics, and they're striking right there. They have like the highest per capita rape in the country in Alaska, and that doesn't even factor in the Native population, and when you do it did,

it's even more dramatic. But there's certainly a lot of challenges that exist in Alaska when it comes to Native people and what and what they're dealing with. So that sort of sets the stage for this story that I tell in Ice and Bone and these these these unsolved murders.

mother and then moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico. So kind of didn't have a part in Della's life as she was growing up and then finally reconnected with Della when Della was an adult, and by that time, Della had a number of problems. She become addicted to alcohol, and she claimed Della claimed that she had been the abuse of the victim of sexual abuse in the family and had endured it for a number of years and that's what had driven her to develop these addictions.

said that she had this very endearing smile. She was very kind, you know, when she was sober, she was very giving and nurturing. She would cook meals and often share them with other kids in the trailer park who would come to her door who were hungry. She loved the outdoors. She had a part time job calling numbers at a bingo hall, which she quite an joyed. She just was a tortured person though, because of these addictions

and because of what had happened during her life. And I think she just had a really sad, a sad life.

Joshua Wade makes allegedly makes some joke about running her over. Someone in the back seat says no, no, don't do that, and gets out of the car one of the passengers and sort of drags her out of the of the road and onto the side of the road near a near a shed that was located near a TV station. And this is in sort of a CD part of Anchorage at the time. And so then later that night, Joshua Wade and his friends returned to this garage where

they're doing work on a couple of cars. They're doing like an engine swap on these cars, and they're sort of hanging out and getting drunk and this kind of thing, and Joshua Wade disappears from the garage and says he's going to go check to see if the lady has any money on or something like that, and comes back later in the night, according to the people in the garage, covered in blood, which he then washes off, and he's acting agitated and pacing back and forth and begins to

tell pull people aside and tell people various things of what he's alleged to have done to Della Brown, and all of this sort of came out at the trial. Do you want me to get into that as well, like what he is, what he had done.

it wasn't a sympathetic thing. Oh my god, someone's just hurt and we should call nine one one. It's not any of that. So there's this disregard for these people on the road. Just push her aside, don't see if she's Oh, she's alive, but just push her aside. And so these guys are I guess, I don't know if they're punks. But there's some little gang called GTS, and there's a guy named Romeo and his brother Gabe, and so there's some people at this gradge and he starts

talking to these people. So some people take him serious, some people not so serious. Some people know him, some people don't know him so well. But he also wants to tell people about it. But he also wants to show people, doesn't he He does, And he eventually takes them, you know, takes various people one by one to this shed to show them, to show them what he's done to her, which is essentially.

were consistent with that. And then eventually, but the coroner determined what killed her where the fatal blows to the head with the rock. And then and then you had mentioned this thing about sort of the racial overtones he had alleged. He Wade denied that he was motivated by a hatred of Native people, but had said to many people that he thought Natives were scum. His father when I talked to his father in Seattle, his father confirmed that for me as well, that that Joshua Wade had

a very poor opinion of Native people in general. That he admired African Americans and Latinos, but that to him, Native Alaskans were like at the bottom of the of the wrong there. What did you what was the question again.

I'm not going there. I'm not going with you. So he shows some people, so he wants to show so there is that kind of evidence eventually that the police find out. So tell us what happens in terms of somebody seeing his handiwork in that shed.

surprising to me too through the trial. And don't want to jump ahead too much, but you know, given that he had come in and out of that shed so many times, and the fact that they were not able to produce any forensic evidence to connect Wade to the shed, I found to be really surprising, and I think actually in reality, I think he found that to be wide himself, because he said he said this in an interview after after the case was over.

conditions in the shed were so difficult. But you know, even the fact that he was walking in and out of there. They were testing for shoeprints and that kind of thing. That matched his shoes, and there really was nothing found. There was a knife, you know, I mentioned that he had allegedly used a knife to try to

cut her. They discovered a knife in his room at his father's house, but because the search warrant didn't list the knife as something that they could take, they didn't take it initially, then called the father and sort of

over the phone, got permission to take it. But then there was some concern that it had been really and it never showed up as evidence at the trial, and the prosecutors that I talked to said that that was one of the big mistakes because it was physical piece of evidence that connected him to Della Brown's murder.

But part of the big problem at trial was these witnesses they were relying on, because they really were unreliable witnesses and they had already admitted to several lies, like between the grand jury testimony and then finally the trial,

and then even at trial had changed their stories. And then some of them they were sort of these want to be gang members who had been involved in armed robberies and had their own cases and then cut deals to testify against Wade, and so they would show up in court and their orange jumpsuits to testify, further sort of deteriorating their credibility. I mean, there were just lots of problems with with there were there were a lot of problems with the witnesses in the case, so that

that was a big problem. But when you were talking about physical evidence, as I mentioned, there really there really wasn't. They were depending on these recorded police wires as the main evidence, and of course these police wires were recorded by two of the gang members. Who I mean this is this is the idea that the police had sort of get Joshua Wade. They had two of the gang members show up in a car that was supplied by the police officer or the police department. It had a

recording device in it. They also wired both of the gang members and then planted the newspaper from the day that showed the murders of the six women on the front page in the car, so that what Wade got in the car, he would see the newspaper and then that would spark some kind of conversation, you know, during which he would admit that he had had killed these women. So essentially much worked. They pick him up. Wade gets in the car, he sees the newspaper, he recognizes Della Brown.

He says, that's her, that's her, and then he makes a comment, there's only three on here. Three women on here is what he is referring to. And it's not clear, you know, on the recording which three women he's talking about, but ostensibly he's making admission and making an admission that he had killed three of the women, and the only one we know for sure he was referring to besides Theela Brown was Michelle Foster Butler, because he makes reference to her being black, and she was the only victim

who was black. So they relied heavily on that recording at trial. They played it many times, the only thing that they did because they didn't want to. They weren't allowed to present evidence that would connect Wade to anyone but Della Brown's murder, so they had to edit out all the parts where he made reference to any other So what the jurors here heard is not the same conversation that I take forbade him off the tape that

appears in the book. So that's important to remember when you talk about like why did the jury find him not guilty of this murder? And I talked to some of the jurors about that and why they made the decision that they did. And given the evidence that was presented to them, which the prosecutors themselves admit was not was not a good case they made I think was what was a reasonable decision based upon the case that they were presented.

a little bit comic, a little comic relief. But what really is nothing funny whatsoever is Daisy Pigott and she uproots her family to come to this trial, to be there every day too, I guess, feeling guilty obviously, but uprooting her whole family to come here, and she has to hear of the brutalization of her daughter, the minimalization of her daughter, but also that he was told people that he wanted he had sex with the corpse afterwards, and it wasn't She wasn't killed right away, so she

got to endure that. And then if that wasn't enough, she sees him given a short sentence for interfering with the crime scene of I'm not correct, tell us a little bit more about that.

guilty and not guilty and not guilty. I mean, one of the jurors I talked to described to me in a very moving way, I thought what it was like watching Daisy Pigott as the verse was rendered, and she said she could hear this sort of wailing sound that started quietly and then grew louder and louder, and it was like an animal that had been wounded. She said she to this day can't get that sound out of

her head. And I think these jurors really, and the jurors too, where I think we're very traumatized by experience. Some of them went to like trauma counseling afterwards. And you know, many people in the public blamed them for letting Wade go because he would then go out and murder Mindy Schloss. But yeah, the ordeal Daisy Piya went through was horrendous and I don't think anyone can really

imagine imagine it. And the judge even said so at the end, like he apologized to her and said, I can't imagine what what this has been like for you.

Jacobs and I believe her name is the activist. She is again enraged, and Joshua Wade does his sentence and then quietly gets out, and I think Daisy and Joshua will meet again, So this will be a good opportunity, Monty, if you could, let's just pause for just a moment to talk about the sponsor of this program, which is Luke Crate, and Luke Crate is a mystery crate filled with exclusive items from the biggest and best pop culture franchises,

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Valued at over one hundred and fifty dollars. Make sure you head to www dot lutcrate dot com slash true murder an enter code true murder to save three dollars on your new subscription. In addition to the nineteen ninety five so every month there's a different theme and now April's theme was Quest and the deadline was the nineteenth,

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at that point. So he sort of fell into the criminal element. According to his father, he was stealing from his stash and then selling the drugs on his own and started to do take part in through criminal activity, you know, on his own. And apart from his father, his father and mother had a really tough marriage, I

was told. And Bubba is his father's name. Bubba admitted to me that there was domestic violence and that at one point he held a gun in the mouth of his wife in front of his two children, Joshua Wade and then Joshua's sister, Mandy. I also talked to Mandy who recounted that same story to me. So they had a very traumatic childhood growing up. You know, they the father and mother were devout Mormons, but then sort of

fell away from the church. Bubba became a bouncer at a night club and then began to have affairs with women that he would encounter the nightclub, and then the marriage broke up, and then the mother also had an affair and they had a child by another man, which is I think, according to Bubba, what caused the incident

with the gun. So yeah, so there was a lot of violence growing up, and then when Joshua Wade gets into he tried to commit suicide when he was an adolescent and that and then was spent some time in a mental institution, was released, was hard to control, came to live with his father in Alaska, was still out of control, and his father really couldn't do anything to

help him. So that was sort of the situation Joshua Wade was in when you come across him at the beginning of the book, that's sort of where he is. He's sort of been in and out of jail, and he's he's done petty crimes or was you know, he's been stopped speeding with a weapon in his car, drug chargers, these kinds of things.

The mother moved away to live with her boyfriend and then left her eighteen year old son there living with another friend. And then that friend's girlfriend was frequently in and out of the house. So it's basically young people living in this house by themselves. And then Joshua Wade came and basically rented out a room in that house, and the FBI said when they went in, I'm jumping ahead here, but just to sort of give the listeners sort of a visual on this, the house was because

there's lots of party. There were a lot of parties there, so it was very messy in what you would expect like of you know, teenagers living there. But then Joshua Wade's room, which I understand he had a lock on the door, was pristine, very clean, meticulous. Everything was in its place, The bed was always made, folded corners, all that stuff. But they were aware that he had a criminal background because they knew that he had met the father in jail.

really register for some reason. And you know, when all the stuff started happening with Mindy Schloss, he would call up Christina Greaser and asked for rides, and she'd pick him up and she'd take him around. And I really don't think she she put two and two together right away, not until you know, later on, when it became obvious and she saw his picture on the evening news, and then she realized, I mean, of course, this wasn't like a mugshot of him. It was a picture of him

at an ATM with his face partially covered. It was just the bottom half of his face that was showing. But she immediately recognized him from that image and thought, oh my gosh, that's Josh. He's done something to his next door neighbor.

about those circumstances. What happens to Mindy Lass.

not like Mindy at all. She wouldn't have not notified the office or you know, because these people were depending on her. And so right away, Kathy Hodges is her friend in Fairbanks. Kathy Hodges calls the Anchorage Police department and says, something's wrong. I need you to go do a welfare check. Go over to her house and see if you Mindy's passed out on the floor or something's wrong.

And so the officer goes by, sort of doesn't go in, but looks through the windows, doesn't see any obvious sign of a struggle and that, you know, there's no one lying on the carpet that he can see or anything like that. So and he goes back find So a couple more days go by. I think it's Tuesday by now, or you know, like tuesday. By Tuesday, she Kathy Hodges is getting very worried. She called, She's called a couple of times. She calls back again. So then this is

where the story enters. A detective by the name of Pam Pernew she was the lead detective in this case. She's on her way home. She's got her twin girls in the backseat of her car. She's just picked them up from daycares. Going home, she gets a phone call from the sergeant says, look, we have this missing person case.

I need you to go check this out. So Pam you know, drops her kids off with her husband, drives back over to Mindy's house and there she meets another of Mindy's friends, Jerry yet and Harry is Mindy's best friend. She immediately starts describing to detective for new things that she finds a miss in the house. They're like, there's like a wine bottle on the on the counter. Things are kind of in disarray. One thing that she thought was really strange was that Mindy's bed was made and

it was made in like this military fashion. That Mindy never would have done it that way. She was a restless sleeper. She wouldn't have folded the corners that way. She thought that was really strange. She also found this apron that Jerry had made for Mindy when Mindy's pie had won something in the fair. So Jerry had made this special apron for her friend, and it had various designs it stuff. It was in the garbage, which she

knew was really strange. Mindy never would have thrown that away. Also, her car was not in the garage, which was weird because I mentioned she would take a cab to the airport, so why was her car missing. She's explaining all this stuff. Jerry's just beside herself. She doesn't know what's happened. Mindy liked to go out berry picking at that time of year because she would make pies and things like that.

So Jerry thought maybe Mindy had gone out and was picking berries and fell, maybe and hurt herself and was out there somewhere. So Detective Perneu takes a look around the house and she's looking for various things. She goes into a back room and she finds a wallet, and in the wallet she finds this little piece of paper with the four digit code I think it was like

four to one four seven on it. So she thought that was strange, you know, it was a clue, she thought, So she made note of that and that comes to play later in the case. So Pam Perneu goes, you know, back to the office the next day because by now it's late. She decides the next day to look into Mindy's banking wrecords to see if there are any clues there. Well, it turns out there is. She has the help of the FBI to do this. Mike Thorson, who's an agent

with BFBI, helps her out with this. They find out that a five hundred withdraw five hundred dollars withdrawal has been made from Mindy's account, and then there's also this image. They find this image of a man who has a bandana around his face and is wearing a hat. But at some point he gets close enough to the camera where he looks like he's either trying to read the screen or do something, and he pulls down the bandana enough that she sees the bottom half of his face.

She knows right away something has happened to Mindy and that this person, whoever he is, has had something to do with it. So she calls all of Mindy's friends. By now, Mindy's former boyfriend Bob Conway is back in town. He was way off somewhere in as working on a construction project. He's flown back to help look. Detective Pernew calls them all together in an court room at the police department, sits them down and shows them this picture of this man and asks them do you recognize this person?

And none of them do, and they're all horrified, you know, they start crying because they realize this person has done something with Mindy, and that sort of starts the investigation. At this point, they have not made any connections to Joshua Wade. Like Joshua Wade is sort of infamous Anchorage. People know his name. They you know, they followed this Dulla Brown trial very closely, but at this point they have made not a connection to him at all. Eventually,

one of Bob Conway's friends actually finds the car. Finds Mindy's car abandon at the airport, not in the airport parking lot where like a passenger would park the car, but at this sort of back lot where it was the sky chef's parking lot, so the company that supplies the food for the airplane. So it's in a strange place.

Pampernu and detective and the Asian person find surveillance tape showing the car coming into that parking lot and a man coming out, wiping off the you know, the door and then walking away, and it's too far away to identify who the guy is, but he's carrying a backpack. They make note of like what he's wearing, and it appears to be the same man in the image of

the atm still image. All of that is eventually, you know, released to the public, but it's not until like later that the neighbors identify this person, Joshua Wade, person who live next door to Mendy, and that they make that connection with Joshua Wade. Then this triggers a huge manhunt. It was described to me as like the biggest, one of the biggest man hunts in Alaska history. They finally do track him down after a period of time, and.

supposedly that they had with this young man. So the other thing that I thought was fascinating right out of a Law and Order episode was the incredible team that comes down with dogs. Not only do you have a Cadiver dog, which I have read about, but this was a new one in terms of the coverage you have in your book. When was fascinating in that the scent dog just to prove where Joshua Wade had gone and

the route that he had went on his bicycle. And so these scent dogs had this incredible ability and were trained to take the scent off something even a week or two later from the steering column or the steering wheel of the car and be able to do their work. So I thought that was fascinating.

back to the house next door. I mean that one of the most like, I don't say chilling moments, but one of the most sort of amazing and the investigation is when they're following the dog back from the ATM and it goes to Mindy's house, but then stops and there's this long fence, and the FBI gave me a video a video of this and I will eventually post it on the website while Blo Press's website, so you

can see. But the dog sort of goes up to Mindy's door, there's like a deck and it sort of smits around, but then it sort of stops and it comes back down the steps and you can tell that the dog wants to go to the house next door. Well, there's this long fence that goes all the way out to the street almost, so the dog goes all the

way down the fence. There are all these like law enforcement people following the dog, FBI agents and police, and then it goes to the house next door where Joshua Wade lived, up to the house, into the carport and to the door by the car port, and then that's where he ends the trail. And they later find out that the people who lived at the house, Joshua Wade included, never used the front door of the house. They always came in and out of the door near the car port.

So it was just like it was absolutely incredible, and Detective Perneu, worked to the police department, didn't have any experience with those sent dogs and was highly skeptical of this, you know. And so when Joline god and the other agent from the FBI who was working on the case with their suggested it, she was pama skeptical, but said, okay. She was just glad the FBI was helping her at all, so she said, sure, let's try it. I'm willing to

do whatever. And when Detective Perneu actually saw it for her own eyes what the dogs were able to do, she was pretty she's pretty dumbfounded.

spousal privilege so that her name is Lisa Andrews. Lise Andrews won't testify against him because what happened was that Joshu Wade had basically confessed the crime to Lisa Andrews while they were visiting in jail, and he basically described everything that he had done in detail, which I I was always I was confused about, and I asked to take the prenew about that, like why would Joshua Wade

divulge all this information to Lisa Andrews. And the text Pernew thought, well, LEAs Andrews is a smart woman, she was very savvy and and he was probably looking for her advice like what he should do. That's what to tec Perne thought. So anyway, that's how they that's how they pieced together what exactly he had done with Mindy Schloss. You know that he had led that he had gone into the house, broken into the house that she had

woken up. He then you know, had had tied her up in the bathroom, gone back to his house to retrieve a duffel bag with all these materials in it, and then come back to the house and put her in the trunk of the car, driven her out to Wiscilla, where he ultimately you know, shot her in the head and killed her.

life in prison. He's been in solitary confinement for most of that time because of very you know, various reasons. But I talked to his sister about this, and she felt like, you know, that's something that really has got to make you even more crazy. If you're spending twenty three hours of twenty four hours a day in solitary confinement, that's just kind of like a crazy person even crazier, you know.

to me. He didn't respond to any of my initial letters.

But then when I had brought up some of the things that his father had told me and in my interview with him about his childhood, he wanted to sort of I think, set the record straight or more accurately, sort of controlled the narrative, because he wrote back to me and said, first of all, there was a there was like a legal disclaimer at the top of the letter that said, you know, anything that is said in here is not for publication, and so I won't tell

you what he said in the letter. But basically he in general terms, he post a legal arrangement that he would have, you know, drawnify his attorneys that I would sign and agree to sort of tell his side of the story. So I wrote back to him and I said, look, I'm a journalist. I can't sign a I can't sign a contract with you saying that I'm going to portray, you know, your side of the story. But I am

committed to the truth. If you want to, you know, talk to me, whether in letter or in person or whatever, I'm willing to hear what you have to say. And then I wasn't surprised that I didn't hear from him again because I really feel like he wanted to control the narrative. I felt, and I do feel like he's only going to do something if he feels that it would be to his advantage. It's the same reason that he hasn't written back to the daughter of Michelle Foster Butler.

You know, she wrote to him and in prison and asked him, look, did you have something to do with my mother's death? And he's never responded to her because in his you know what, if he have to gain,

that's kind of how I look at it. He wants He wanted to get out of Alaska, that was one thing, and I think that's why he then admitted and I think we've left that part out, But after he was convicted of Mindy Schlaus's murder under that plea agreement, he also admitted to having killed Doba Brown, even though he had been acquitted. Then he was in Alaska in jail and didn't want to be in Alaska because he was

it was known throughout the system. But he didn't like Alaska Natives and the Native Alaska population, I guess was making it difficult for him in the Alaska system, so he wanted to get out. And the way he got out was he said, I will admit to these three other murders if you transfer me to a federal prison, you know, outside of Alaska, And that's essentially what happened. So Joline Godin, the agent who was case, met with him and interviewed him, and he confessed to the murders

of these three men. So not connected to the original six. These are totally different. One guy was sort of a homeless guy who was shot in the head while walking down the road. Another guy was killed in the hotel room. And then the third man he said he killed was a man who was in the shed with Della Brown

on the night that he killed Della Brown. That was the one murder they were never able to verify because they were never able to connect that man to any known missing person, nor were they ever able to find his body, so they don't know who that person is. But the other due Julian Golden told me. Goden told me that she was pretty confident that he's killed these

five people. So after that confession, they then moved him to a federal prison in Indiana and then to Pennsylvania, and he's currently in Texas in a federal prison of Texas.

So thank god he didn't keep his mouth shut. And thanks to the dedicated people that really had to work hard to put Joshua Wade away and the wild circumstances that prompted him to admit to other murders was just another It was a blessing in disguise in what's otherwise a pretty sad story.

between them. But all of the information that you have in this book is that the drawings that he did in prison, and some of the things that he has said, all the statements he has made, you paint a very verbid portrayal of this very very serious and likely, of course serial killer. But who knows how many other bodies he can be attributed to.

case in Alaska. He was another serial killer, but he more fits this sort of the stereotype we have of serial killers, of this very like cold, calculated, unfeeling person who never makes a mistake and who's really hard to catch. Like Joshua Wade was not that kind of serial killer.

He he was emotional, you know, he would he would make mistakes and have to go back and cover them up, but was manipulative and got away with it, I think for a lot longer than he should have been able to, Like he probably should have been apprehended like way, way sooner than he was.

full display. In terms of the prosecutors, there was a former prosecutor, she had health and other conditions that prompted these very inexperienced prosecutors that were behind in terms of gathering evidence. And then some savvy defense lawyers were very experienced and were just overwhelmed. So it's another part of this just again a multi layered story. So incredible book.

And in that theme, Wild Blue Press, which is the publisher of this book, Ice and Bone, is quite generously giving ten prizes away tonight for those people that have listened to this interview and very much like the Alien Warnos giveaway from just maybe about six weeks ago, these ten prizes will be to ten winners and there's five audiobooks and five e books of the very fine Ice

in Bone from Wild Blue Press. And all people have to do is the first ten people to email me at Dan dot Zupanski zgp A N Sky at gmail dot com will get one of these prizes, and then I will direct you to the Wild Blue Press site that you can collect this fine prize of a copy ebook or audiobook which everyone just designate which one or stipulate which one you'd like. Five audiobooks and five e books, so ten winners of Monty Francis's Ice and Bone from

Wild Blue Press. So I want to thank you very much Monty for coming on and talking about this fine book. And I want to if people were wanting to contact you or find more information about what you do other than Wild Blue Press. Do you do any Facebook or Twitter? Tell us a little bit about that.