FRUSTRATED WITNESS-Willis Morgan

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slash murder. Zip recruiter the Smartest way to Hire. On July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one, six year old Adam Walsh was abducted from the Hollywood Mall in Hollywood, Florida, and later found decapitated. The horror of the event would change America forever and bring about much needed changes to child protection and safety laws. Willis Morgan was at the Hollywood Mall on the same day it was there he had an unnerving encounter with serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer, known

as the Milwaukee Cannibal, just before Adam went missing. However, his witness statements about Dahmer were rejected by police, and he watched in frustration as they investigated and convicted Ottis tool knowing they had the wrong man. Frustrated Witness details the various eyewitness accounts of the events of that faithful day in the mall and major flows in the police investigation. In an attempt to write a wrong that continues to

haunt him. This is the account of Adam Walsh's abduction in my attempt, stretching across decades to find justice for him. Morgan writes, as much as this book is a case for Jeffrey Dahmer being Adam's murderer, it is equally a study of how the Hollywood Police Department HBD conducted the homicide investigation. Morgan has left no stone unturned in his quest for truth, and Frustrated Witness includes an incredible array of evidence he gathered peace by painstaking peace, to prove

Dahmer committed the murder of Adam Walsh. This includes statements of witnesses, he tracked down, crime scenes, he uncovered, police investigated reports, he researched, an analysis of suspect composites, and even the sordid details of Dahmer's murky past before he came to be known as America's most notorious serial killer.

The book that we're featuring this evening is Frustrated Witness the complete story of the Adam Walsh Case and police misconduct with my special guest, journalist and author Willis Morgan. Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Willis Morgan, Well, thank you, dud, thank you very much. Incredible book. I think it's safe to say that this is going to change people's minds in a lot of ways about this case, the Adam

Walsh case, and about Jeffrey Dahmer as well. Tell us about who you were, what you were doing, what was your position July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one. What were you doing at that time at the Miami Herald press room. Tell us a little bit about what position you were in at that time before we talk about July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one in your trip to Hollywood.

the printing department. So I was there since nineteen seventy two, and about forty years after I was there, I became the training supervisor, and so I had a job as a supervisor. In nineteen eighty one. We were working a four day work week, ten hours a day, forty forty hours a week, so out my days off for Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. So Monday was my slowest day off, or

my middle day off, I should say. So. I decided on Monday, July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one, to go to the Hollywood Mall because I wanted to get lunch there at the German Deli. But before I went down to the Delhi, I stopped in Walden's Bookstore, browsed around, didn't buy anything, though, and I headed down to the deli. But since Radio Shack was on the same side of the mall that I was on, I decided to stop

into Radio Shack. And it was in Radio Shack that I had this encounter that would become something that would change my life and become a you know, a part of me forever. Because that encounter was so bizarre and so strange that I actually followed this guy after he left, thinking that somebody else was gonna be in trouble, and I actually walk watched him walk through the mall, turn into Sears, go to the baside west side of Sears, and then turned to the right and then into the

toy department. I stood there for a minute, wondering what this guy was doing. He never came back out. I'm thinking, well, maybe he's playing the video games. So I just turned around and left. And ever since that day, I've regretted that. In fact, I've regretted it so much that a week later,

or even less than a week, I to remember. It was a few days at least later that I joined one of the search teams and we were searching people's backyards, uh, garbage cans, everything, looking for anything that could have belonged to Adam. They made a list and handed it out to everybody, explained what Adam was wearing, and to keep an eye out if we see anything like that. But we never found anything.

And there was a table right at the front of that aisle, and it had a sign saying red Tag Sail. And there were a lot of items on the table and I picked something up. They caught my eye and I was looking at it, and that's when I noticed this guy standing at the entrance to Radio Shack. And in my peripheral vision, so I look up and he see this young, disheveled man standing there and he was smiling at me, like I said, with his dead dull look in his eyes, but yet trying to be friendly.

And he says to me, Hi, there, nice day, isn't it? And I'm thinking, oh boy, this guy wants a conversation or something, you know, So I didn't answer him, thinking that once you say something, that initiates more conversation. So I just looked back to the table with the item that I was looking at. But instead of leaving, he came into the radio shack and came right up to me, and he repeated again, standing arm's lens uh from me, and a in a very loud tone, the same thing, hither,

nice day, isn't it? And it was at that point that I didn't answer again that things became very very strange and very tense, like I said, because he was intent on having a conversation at me and I with me, and I wouldn't respond, and just to keep it short, you know, uh, Like I said it that the whole entire encounter lasted maybe for two three minutes. He that he actually stood over me staring at me. Well, I'm not responding, and til finally he turned around and just

stomped out of the radio shack. And my first feelings were relief that he left. But then I'm thinking somebody, he's gonna go up to somebody else, and somebody's gonna need some help. This guy is very, very dangerous. I mean, this is the feeling I had, just that look about him. And so I went to the radio shack entrance and I looked down the m mall the main hallway, and at first I didn't seem but then I saw he crossed over to the other side, and it was just

meandering real slow into the deep into the mall. So I was watching him, and I watched him walk to the Seers entrance in the interior entrance of the mall, and then he turned right into Sears and he, like I said, he walked all the way to the radio check out to the toy department. I'm sorry, And I was keeping an eye on him the whole time. But

I turned around and left. And when I went home that very same evening, I happened to be in the kitchen and I had a TV on in the living room, and I hear on the local news they were talking about a young boy that went missing, and all of a sudden, he said, Hollywood mall the time, the location, the Seers Toy Department. I'm getting right away. I'm thinking that guy, who was that guy? He did it? Cause

everything matched the time. This was around noon, twelve thirty, and I knew it had to be that guy, just know his name. I didn't know who that guy was. He never said his name. So anyway, that was Monday. Tuesday, I told a couple of friends my neighbor uh. They encouraged me to go to the police, but I didn't go. But on Thursday, uh uh or a Wednesday, I should say, when I went back to work Wednesday night, I was telling coworkers about this, and it was some coworkers that

encouraged me to go to the police. And that's when I finally decided I won't go. And so I went there Thursday, first thing in the morning and I told try to tell them about the encounter I had in the UH radio shack the same day. And the detective that I spoke to was very dismissive. He did not very condescending as well, very arrogant, dismissive been kindness. That

was the impression I got. In fact, the actual impression I was thinking at the time was they he must've uh been on like duty, and they just stuck him on his desk in the main lobby because they they had a desk set up specially just for this case, right, And I was trying to uh tell him what happened, but uh, he only wanted to know if I had a receipt to prove I was there, and if I had seen the vehicle, uh and the tag number. And I tried to explain to him this was inside. The

ball never went outside. So in short, he basically took my name phone number and said, if they need me, they'll get back to me. But they never got back to me. Nobody's ever called me. Nothing. And then a few days later I started seeing composits showing up the newspapers, and some of those composites were the spitting image of

this guy that I had this encounter with. And when I say spitting image, to me, they were a spitting image, but close enough that I knew that we were talking about the same guy whoever made those composits, sort the same person that I saw that I had that encounter with. Okay, so my thinking was, but at least they have their composite. There's nothing more I can do. So I just let

it go. I never really did much, but I I did keep following the story in the newspaper, and I said, I as I said, I did join one of the search teams, and so I was keeping up with this. And then I started reading, uh articles about how they were going after John Walsh's house guest because he had this house guest living in his house. His name was James Campbell, and well John Walsh was out to work. Apparently, this what I was reading in the papers there was

that James was having an affair with realbeg. I mean I didn't read this then. This was that part wasn't in the paper, but later on when I got the case files, I found out. But anyways, James Campbell was living with John Walsh Andy. He apparently was having an affair with Revee and he proposed marriage to her and she turned him down because she had a son with John.

So at the time, the police was thinking they had their motive and their suspect because they were thinking, uh, huh, you get rid of the kid and you get the wife. And on that day, uh, they were saying, cause this was in the paper at the time, that John Walsh and James Campbell were are the only two people that knew where they was going to that mall, so they they really concentrated on James Campbell in the meantime where they come. While they were concentrating on him, there were

other incidents that mirrord the Hollywood. More abduction witnesses from all over South Florida were calling the Hollywood Police Department as as well as police chiefs from these other cities South Beach, Deerfield, Riviera Beach which is north of West Palm Beach, Plantation, and uh composites match the Hollywood Mall. But they were dismissing all these other witnesses. They were dismissing even the police chiefs that were calling them and even making up their own police reports and and hand

delivering them to the Hollywood Police Department. They were dismissing everything. They were so convinced. The lead detective, Jack Hoffman, was so convinced that James Campbell was a suspect that he dismissed the blue van, even though all these other locations had a blue van, a white suspect that was around six feet tall. And like I say, some of the composites were the spitting image of the Hollywood Mall composite.

But according to the lead detective Jack Hoffman, back then, there's an article in the Holly, the defunct Hollywood Sunset No that's uh said that the Hollywood Police Department thought they had their biggest lead in the case when there was an attempted abduction in the Riviera Twin City Mall because the composits matched and there was a blue van involved. And like I said, everything matched. But the problem is those composites, even though they matched the composites from the

Hollywood More, none of them matched James Campbell. So instead of dismissing James Campbell, they dismissed all the witnesses from the Riviera Beach incident and the Hollywood More. And he also dismissed the blue van. So he never told anybody about dismissing the blue van. So the Bowler was still passed out to hundreds of police cars and they had them attached to the inside of their car, and they they were looking for blue vans everywhere, stopping hundreds and

hundreds of them. They said it was like over seven thousand blue vans that were searched at that time, was like one of the biggest vehicle searches in the history of the state of Florida. In fact, if you had a blue van and you made a U turn, the police considered you trying to get away, and they would pull you over and give you extra scrutiny. If you had a blue van and you tried to sell it, or you sold it, they would consider trying to get rid of evidence, and then they would really give you

more scrutiny as well as that vehicle. They were going to junk yards looking for blue vans and doing searches everywhere, but all while Jack Hoffman had dismissed the blue van.

We didn't really have time clock, so whenever we finished is when we got off. And I live in the first town over the county line north of Miami, which is about eighteen miles north of where I worked. So by the time I get home, it's close to five point thirty cause there's no traffic at that time of the morning. And I was pulling onto my street that

I live on, which was Bedford Avenue. It's a dead end street, and I noticed as before I even turned onto the street that there was this vehicle behind me. I didn't pay attention, but then I made a right, the vehicle made a right. I made a left, the vehicle made a left, and as I turned on to

Bedford Avenue, the vehicle turned onto the same street. And I'm thinking, I didn't really think anything of it, because I'm thinking, this is the time of the morning where they do their home deliveries, and it was they were just doing home deliveries. So I didn't pay attention until I pulled up in front of my house and I had my boat in the driveway, so I parallel parked on the street and the van, the blue van, pulled alongside my car. I had a seventy seven Pontie at Catalina,

and I pulled up alongside. The guy rose his window down as I'm getting out of my car, and he says to me, Hey, do you have insurance? And I didn't answer. It says, you know, you almost hit me. I need to see your insurance. So I turned him and I said almost doesn't count. And I went inside, and I thought that was kind of strange. You know, it wasn't in insurance. I didn't hit him. So I went inside and I was in the bedroom taking my things out of my pocket. Then I decided, I don't know,

that was just kind of too strange. So I decided to let me go to the kitchen and look out the window and see what this guy's doing, if he's still here or not. I look at the window on the guy. The van's still there, and I look and I see the guy is not in the vent now, and I see him sitting on the hood of my neighbor's car, which was also a parallel parked on the

street in front of a house. He was sitting on the hood, which was facing the same direction as my car, and he was just staring at my car and I. I started to get a knife out of the kitchen draw. I was gonna go back outside, but I wanted to, you know, be armed with something. Then I'm thinking, no, that's not a good idea. Let me go get my gun. So I go into the bedroom. I get my Burretta in my thirty eight Smith and Wesson. I checked make sure it's loaded, cause a lot of times I don't

keep the first chamber loaded. I wanted to make sure I had it on a chamber that was ready to go. And I go outside, but he was gone. And it was at that time when I when I didn't. It took me a while to realize that's the same guy from the mall. I didn't at first, I just because I wasn't paying attention to him. I was trying to

ignore him. So I, you know, I didn't put it together until I got my gun and went outside, and I'm thinking that's the guy, and so I immediately ran back inside, got my car keys, and I ran back outside. I got my car, and I of course I have my gun with me, so uh that helps, and I started searching everywhere for him, and I couldn't find him.

He just disappeared into the streets. I wouldn't note till they released the case files that I was looking through the files and I saw just a block from my house where another witness called in that blue van and said that the van and the guy matched the composites from the Hollywood Mall. So I'm thinking, uh huh, that he was there. That has to be this guy. But you know, more than that, there's nothing to prove that

it was him. But I'm one hundred percent certain. And when I see the mugshot of Jeffrey Dhmer, that was taking just two months after Adam's abduction, because when Dohmer was fired from his job, he was working down here at a sub shot. He got fired in late September and went back to Ohio and October seventth he got arrested for this orderly conduct and had a mugshot taken.

And that mugshot is the closest similarity to the person that was in the Hollywood Mall because his hair is still long, he's still got his floor to tan, and it looks just like the guy. And that was sitting on my neighbor's car, and that I encountered in the radio shock, and I knew that was him. That's the guy was Jeffrey Dahmer. There's no question. In fact, I knew it even before I saw that photo. I knew

the day Jeffrey Dahmer was. There was an article on the paper and we were doing paper checks in nineteen ninety one, and there was a story, it was on page eight A of this guy that was arrested in Milwaukee for doing some pretty horrendous things in his apartment up there. And I didn't even know at that time that this guy was ever in Florida. This was just a story about Milwaukee. But when I got to page eight A and I saw this little mugshot, I recognized

the guy instantaneously, and I started freaking out. I started saying, Hey, this is the guy. This is the guy I saw on the mall that day, you know. And so anyway, I took that paper, and since I worked for a newspaper, I called what we called the library. The library is a storage room actually, because back in those days they didn't have computers, so they stored hard copies of all

the Mimmy hold papers and they would do research. But if you wanted research done, you had to have a pretty close idea of a date, which I did July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one, because remember this is nineteen ninety one. Ten years later, almost to the week. I called the library up and I asked him, I says, you remember the composite that ran in the paper of the from the out of Walsh abduction. And they said yes, of course, and I says it was July twenty seventh,

nineteen eighty one. A few days after that, the composits started showing them, can you send me the composite? And they did what I didn't realize until two thousand and eight when they closed the case. They sent me the wrong They sent me one from one of those other incidents, and that mirrored the Hollywood mall. And I took it back to the police department with the newspaper, the mugshot from the paper, and I showed it to them. I said, look, this is the guy that I saw on them all.

The first thing they want to know is well for forty doing coming in now, come in and come into the nineteen eighty one and I said, but I did come in eighty one, they had no clue that I was ever there. You know, that detective that that I talked at the front desk actually was the police officer in full uniform that I talked to. Apparently he didn't pass his notes on, so nobody knew anything that I

was there. And but their jaws dropped when I showed him the mugshot because there was a spitting image and you've seen it, Dan, the mug shot as well as the composite, they are a perfect match. And they knew. The detective of Jack Laufman, who was still on the case, knew that that mugshot was from the Twin City mall that he dismissed, as well as all these other incidents that he kept dismissing. So what does he do. He

goes into full cover up mode. And it was about that time when all the oddist tube evidence grew legs and walked off. You know, even even the Hollywoo Police Department says evidence was lost.

He can't be on both East Coast and West Coast at the same time committing murders, so one by one they had to reopen their case and dismiss otist Tool is nothing but a tall tale and a liar and a storyteller. That's every police department except for one, that's the Hollywood Police Department. They still kept going after him for months afterwards, and in the beginning, he was getting his stories so wrong. He he claimed it was in January.

He claimed that, uh, you know, everything, the subscription of Adam he got wrong. What Adam was wearing he got wrong. He got everything wrong until about the fourth interview. Cause these cops, these detectives kept feeding them information unwittingly. They would showing crime scene photos of where this severed head was found so they he could recollect his memory, you know, of what happened, and so they would feeding this information.

In fact, by the fourth interview, Jack Hoffman said to uh ottist tool as artist, because otis who claimed when he was getting the information wrong that it was because he was intoxicated. So by the fourth interview he started getting the answers or correct to conform what the detectives

wanted the answers to be. And Jack Hoffman says to him, says, artists, ah, sh you sure you were intoxicated, because you're getting all the answers right now after he gave him the answers, and even the Hollywood Police Department, though after about four months dismissed out his tool. So Ottis two was totally dismissed.

In fact, I called one of the lead detectives, the second lead detective, Ron Hickman, and I talked to him, and this is after they closed the case, and I told him about the police chief closed in the case. At first, he had no clue who I was, you know, he said, he's been on the case since its inception.

He's never heard of me. And then he started saying, oh, yes, I do remember you now because I remember reading a bout a lawsuit, you know, because I filed lawsuits against the Hollywood Police Department and one of the detectives over there named Joe Matthews, as well as a lawsuit against the State Attorney's office because we're all covering up facts in the case. And so he remembered the lawsuit and I asked him, I said, listen, run you know when

when the Hollywood Police Chief closed the case. In his statement, he said detectives, investigators passed and present all believed Artist Tool was the suspect. And he goes to me, goes, well, they know I don't. And so he said that to me personally. But then when you go back in the case files and read all their statements, every one of them dismiths Artist Tool. Ottist two was totally dismissed until until Joe Matthews decided to make Ottist Tool the suspect.

Because Joe Matthews is always always wanted Ottist Tool to be the suspect.

But now, all of a sudden, let me back up a little bit, and nineteen a b. Nineteen eighty seven, February eighth, I believe it was John Walsh was chosen to host America's Most Wanted Well one of these detectors, his name was Joe Matthews, called John Walsh and befriended him. And this is the one that n t you know and is putting all his money on out his tool even though all everyone else has dismissed out his tool. So he befriended John Walsh, and John Walsh hired this

detective as the senior lead investigator on America's Most Wanted. So, so John Walsh had one of these detectives in his mythst for years, feeding false information about his own son's abduction. And the reason John Walsh had faith in this guy is because Joe Matthews was also UH up polygraph examiner. He had his own business called uh the Southern Institute of Polygraph and the Hollywood Police Department hired his company to do the polygraphs of James Campbell and John Walsh,

and he dismissed them both. So John Walsh felt gratitude apparently, you know, that's my opinion. But whatever John Walsh did, hiure him and he had him write in his midst for years on America's Most Wanted. So around two thousand six, I would say where they wanted UH UH to get the case finally closed. You wanted uh closure. So John went and called Joe Matthews and asked him if he were doing an independent investigation, and he did so. He came up with this manuscript that he named after himself

called the Matthews Report. In that report, which is a four hundred page report, he totally pins Adam's murder on artist tool. And he comes to this conclusion without calling not one witness, No one witness that was at the Hollywood Mall and believed me. They were n well over a dozen. Not one witness from any of the other incidents. The only people that uh that I. I never read the report cause he refuses to show it to anybody now.

But his book that he wrote that he that he had a co author right for him, was based on the manuscript. He gave that manuscript to a co author and said, hey, can you format this into a book, And that book is called Bringing Adam Home. So in that book he never mentions any of the witnesses and he uh, except for one. And but then he says that one witness called him and said that it was out of s He was kicked out of the stry

well with with Adam. But all of that is fake too, because I found that witness's sister and she was there with him, and she denies that. And he's passed away, so he can't speak for himself. But anyway, the only witnesses that Matthew's uses in that book, uh witnesses like artist tools, uh, cellmates and people that were in prison with him who would say things like, yeah, everybody in prison knows how his tool did it and things like that.

I mean, no evidence whatsoever. And one of his biggest pieces of evidence that he uses is his a shroud of turn photo that he claims he found, which would you know anybody could find I I got copies of him. Anybody can get copies of public information, you know. And he claims that they were hidden him. When he first looked at this one photo, his eyes popped out of his head because he saw Adam. Well, I've got the same role and there in my book. They're in my

uh my web site. If anybody doesn't want to buy the book, or you can just go to Frustrated Witness dot com or or you can go to Justice for Adam dot com. I have two websites. One website Frustrated Witness is about the book Frustrated Witness and the Witnesses and all that the other book UH. The website Justice for Adam dot com is where all the case files can be UH found for free. The State Attorney's Office case files that I paid over eighteen hundred dollars is to have put on a to a CD ROMP set

I posted there. I have the Hollywood Police case files, the FBI files for Jeffrey Dahmer, the Milwaukee Police Department files for the UH for Jeffrey Dahmer, and all of that and much more can be viewed Justice for Adam dot com, including my lawsuit. I have a folded there for my lawsuit. But anyway, Matthew's formatted that into a

book called Bringing Adam Home. And that report, the Matthews Report, he gave to the Hollywood Police Department, and he bamboos the chief, the police chief, Chad Wagner, and to closing the case based on that manuscript. And in his book he claims that he wanted that manuscript to be used by police departments throughout the United States as an example of how to solve a cold case, and he used it as their guide but like I said, he never called not one witness and he never mentions any of

them in his book. And about that blue van on page twenty six of Bringing Adam Home, this is what Matthews has to say about the blue van that's been spotted. This is the blue van that's been spotted at all three locations that we'll get into relevant to the Adam Wilsh case. The Hollywood Ball would numerous witnesses saw Adam be tossed into a blue van. Okay, the Twin City Mall incident, which isn't I'm digressionally that doesn't have anything

to do with the Adam Wallsh case. War does but not according to the police, there was a blue van. But anyways, the Hollywood Mall the location the three locations. The second location would be the location where adam severed head was found, So let's talk about that for a second. There was a blue van there. What happened was Adam severed head was found by two fishermen on August seventh,

nineteen eighty I'm sorry, August tenth, nineteen eighty one. On August eleventh, witnesses started calling the Hollywood Police Department from that location and one of them was a public's truck driver. Because this was on the Florida Turnpike. There's a small canal there on the side of the turnpike, and these two fishermen were fishing in that canal that it was like a reservoir, and they they saw a head floating.

At first, they thought it was a doll's head, and they rode over to it, and then they realized it was a human. So they rode back to their truck real quick. And they didn't have our cell phones back then, so they caught on the CBE radio to their job and they had them call the highway patrol and they

went out there. But on August eleventh, Dennis bub one of the witnesses that was driving a public truck along that route, called the Hollywood Police Department to tell them that he saw a blue van at that site on August seventh, three days before it was found the seventh head. And when he told them about the blue van. This is what Dennis told me how they responded, Okay, this quotes, yeah, yeah, we already know about the blue van. Has nothing to

do with the Adam Walsh case. Dennis doesn't know which detective he talked to the name of the detective. But that's what the detective that he spoke to said to him, and they dismissed him. Now, there was another public's driver driving five minutes behind Dennis. So Dennis called on a CB radio to the Clifton Ramie who is behind him, and said, hey, there's a blue van on the side

of the road. Check it out. So, like I said, Dennis saw what dennisaw was this man standing on his little footbridge taking something round out of a bucket and thrown it into the water at twelve thirty in the morning on August seventh. Now how would that not peak someone's attention when he tells the Hollywood Police Department that if I was a homicide detective, I jump at that information, especially when there's a blue van involved, instead of telling them, yeah, yeah,

we already know about the blue van. Has nothing to do with the Adam Walsh case. You know, what about something round being taken out of a bucket he tossed

into the water. So anyway, Clifton Raymie called also on August eleventh because he was, like I said, five minutes behind Dennis, and when he passed the blue van, he said in his statement that he saw a man standing by the side sliding door of the blue van and he could see him fumbling with a bucket because the dome light, you know, when the doors were opened, the dome lights were on, and the light was on, and he could see this guy fumbling with this bucket, you know,

because he was looking to see if the guy was stranded, if he needed any help. But and he thought maybe he had an overheated engine or that's why he was getting water. He didn't really know, but he didn't stop, he didn't do anything. But that was his statement. So you have two witnesses right there, and there were several other witnesses that call. Every one of them were dismissed, all of them. And also the third location that's relevant with a blue van is where Jeffrey Dhmer worked. Okay,

he worked in the subway shop as a busboy. There's numerous witnesses there that confirmed they had three vehicles, two white pickup trucks and a blue van. They used them for delivery. The two white pickup trucks in the winter time, they used all three vehicles for deliveries, but the van was more expensive on gas, so they only used the two white pickup trucks in the summer because that was the off season. And keep in mind, this was in the middle of the summer, so they didn't really use

the blue van. So they used to just keep it parked on the side of the store and all the employees could just take it and use it, and that's what they were doing, including Jeffrey Dohmer.

witnesses that also saw the van. But you get this information much later when the Adam Walsh case files are open, and then you contact people like Timothy Pottenberg, Vernon Jones, a bunch of people that's again confirmed the blue van and actually a couple of those witnesses you talk about Philip Loore uh seeing Dahmer carrying at him out the west exit of them all that day, right, tell us about tell us a little bit more about the FBI's response. You say you tried to.

but he turned everybody down. He didn't want any help. He wanted to solve the case all on his own, going after James Campbell. So he never wanted the FBI to get involved in the FBI can't just come and get involved in a local case because there was no proof that Adam ever left the state of Florida, right and only if there's a proof that you know, this was pross state lines, would the FBI get involved even if they weren't invited. But as long as a homicide

is in state, the FBI doesn't get involved. So they never really got involved. But the FBI did have Jeffrey Dharmer files because they did get involved in that because there was multiple states there that he's been in. The problem with those case files is they're so redacted. Every witness is there, you can't look up any witnesses because

they all have their name was blotted out. Unlike the Hollywood Police Department, who had the most to lose, City FBI had nothing to lose, but the Hollywood Police upon everything to lose. They redacted nobody's name. And that's how

I was able to track down all these witnesses. I did it through joining people search sites and as well as some of my best searchers came from public record sites like tax offices, you know, Barwid County tax Appraiser's office, because if you own property, then you would be listed there. So I figured most of these people would have property, and most of them did, and so they were I was able to locate most of the witnesses and they

told me some you know, pretty Halloween stories. That's how I got Philip Law, you know, I found his name in the case filed and looked him up. Jenny Warren, billbo and all of these witnesses, Jennis Anthemsino, so many. And we can talk about another witness, Mia Taylor, who was there with her brother Joel, not only the day Adam was abducted, but the day before Adam was abducted.

As well, they went in the toy department where their mother was close by shopping, and Jeffrey Dahmer came into the toy department and tried to abduct her brother Joel, And fortunately for Joel, the security guard came over that day and tried to get everybody to be quiet, and their mother showed up, and so Mia said, there's mom, and they ran to their mother and when and at the same time, the security guard shows up and Dahma

takes off. On the way outside, she saw the same disheveled man standing next to and leaning on the side of the blue van, so she's also a blue van witness. The very next day, they were back at the same wall and her and her brother stick away from their mom and went to the toy department again, and the same disheveled guy was there, and she says she saw him leaning over Adam and talking to him in a whispered tone, and then she saw him take Adam by

the fingertips and walk out with him. And her mother showed up at that very moment, and Joel said, Mom, I want to stay with my friend, because he was standing there next to Adam, and she said no, His daddy's here now, so Pegy me and his mother thought Dahma was his dad. Philip law who saw Dahma dragging Adam out of the store, he started turning around and started walking backwards watching this because Adam is screaming, I

don't want to go. You're not my daddy, and he was man handling this boy, and Philip was thinking, boy, you know his son was that abe. She wouldn't handle his son like that, So he started watching this walking backwards. He was going to the service counter to pay a bill, but while he was in mine, he decided to run back outside and check the blue van. The guy and Adam were all gone. And when I say the blue van was gone is because Philip lost his parking space

when he was coming into the store. Because the blue van was parking the fireline, blocking the northbound traffic and so cars had only one lane they would have to go around it and it and what happened was phil lost the parking space that he had an eye on and he had to get another one further away. And then on top of that, he had to walk around the blue van when he went into the store. So he was really upset about it. So he remembers the blue van when he went back out, but it was

all gone. And Philip was thinking, you know, because he hesitated when he saw this incident, thinking well, the boys scream, you know, not my daddy. He's thinking, well, maybe that's like a stepfather. You know how kids they don't treat the stepfathers the same as they would a real father, and so sometimes they don't listen to them. So but then Bill had second thoughts and man outside another witness,

Bill Bowen saw in the parking lot. He saw this guy dragging this boy up, holding him up off the ground by one arm, and then he opens the door and throws them into this van like a sack of potatoes quote unquote, that's Bill's quote, like a sack of potatoes. And then the guy jumps in and screeches off. Bill burns over gets the tag number because the way Bill says, to this day, he still smells the members, the smell

of burnt rubber from the vehicle taking off. A couple of days later, he gave the tag number to the police. That nobody knows what happened to that, because they don't even know Bill went to them. In fact, Bill called them five times, no less than five times. He kept getting answer machines and leaving messages, and leaving messages. Nobody would call them back until like the about the fifth time he got a live person, and they told Bill that the person he needs to speak to is on

vacation and needs to call back in two weeks. Bill tried to explain to them that he's moving to Alabama. That's why he went to the seers to change his addresses Billion address, and so they said, okay, we'll contact you. They took his information, but nobody's ever contacted Bill. And then in nineteen ninety one, as I said, Domis mugshot made the paper because it not only made the Herald, like I said, when I saw it, it made every

paper across the United States. Bill saw Domis mugshot in the paper, the Birmingham Paper, and he took that paper with the mugshot and on his own, came all the way back to Hollywood, Florida, walked into that Hollywood Police department and said, hey, look this is the guy I saw at the Hollywood Mall. And they said the same thing to him. They said, to me, what are you doing coming in now? Coming in and coming here in nineteen eighty one, said what are you talking about? I

gave you the tag number. I kept calling five times. I finally got a light person they told me called back in two weeks, and then they took my name in phone umber and nobody's ever called me. And so again, you know, they messed that case up so bad that all their dots started coming together in nineteen ninety one, and they knew how bad they messed up, more miserable

than anyone knows. Even John Walsh doesn't realize how when he called them the biggest bunch of bumbling, stumbling idiots in's Keystone Cops, he don't realize how bad they really were. They were worse than John Walsh could even imagine. So who what John Walsh experience was bad enough for them to call call them names like that. If John Walsh really could accept the truth, who knows what he would think of them, Because you know, John Walsh has accepted

Joe Matthews. Like I said, revee two years before they closed the case, asked Joe Matthews to reinvestigate the case, which he did, and he bamboos to the police chief in the closing, which he did, and Revey is satisfied with that closing. So is John Walsh. You know, it's like the Stockholm syndrome. You know when he wrote a book, lambbast you all these detectives. Now that they finally give him his closure, now they were all his This is John Walsh's own quote, his best friends and colleague. So

John Walsh doesn't want to hear anything from anybody. In fact, on the thirty seventh anniversary, which was just this last July twenty seventh, Channel ten down here in South Florida, WPLG did an anniversary story podcast about the show. They interviewed John Walsh, They interviewed Joe Matthews. They tried to interview the police chief, Chad Wagner, but he said everything I said at the closing is all I've got to say,

and he would say no more than that. Other than detectives all went into their hiding, their hiding in the retirement. They don't want to even talk to anybody. They uh. She also interviewed me in that show. You could listen to that show, just the fifth episode. I have it on my on my on my uh website Frustrated witness dot com. You can go listen to it. So John wallsh tell us the show accuses me, without mentioning my name,

of trying to make money off his dead son. But what John doesn't realize, I've spent thousands and thousands of my own dollars doing my mitochondrial DNA testing from the murder site where I believe Adam was murdered. So I spent thousands of dollars that I will never make back. I'm not trying to make money. This is not about money.

It's about justice. Because these cops, they go after the week to pour the down trodden who have no family, no education, no money, and nobody comes to their aid, and they pin murders on them to make themselves look good. And that's exactly Let's talk to artist tool.

Adam Walsh case and we want your opinion. What a district attorney, the assistant District Attorney, Charles Morton, he reads it and attaches his own letter back to the police department, the police chief Chad Ryan saying, yes, this is a great report proving artist to a murdered Adam, which means the Hollywood Police Department read that manuscript and they accepted the findings of it. So did the State Attorney's office. Now down here in Florida, we have laws. Okay, Sunshine

was Florida. Sunshine was that say, anything that's used in a murder case or any case has to be part of the case files and subject to public domain and by the public. So those files should be part of the record, the adamos case files. I went to the Hollywood Police, I asked him for that manuscript. They don't

want to show it to me. I first went to Joe Matthews asked him for it, and because I wanted to, you know, show him what I had and compared to what he had, well, obviously he wouldn't show it to me. I went to the State attorney's office. They wouldn't show it to me. Nobody wants to show me this manuscript

that should be part of the case files. Not only that, when the police closed the case on National TV December sixteenth, two thousand and eight, he praised Joe Matthews, who was sitting there right next to him, and he said that Joe Matthews put that manuscript together proving that it was

out of which means that he accepted the findings. But all of a sudden, when they wouldn't show it to me, I decided I was gonna file a lawsuit to get it, which I did, And all of a sudden, now that they're being sued in court, they're telling saying now that they didn't really use that manuscript. It was nothing more this is their quote, than a regurgitation under oath their quote, a regurgitation of everything they already knew. So it wasn't of any use. So they never kept it and they

gave it back to Joe. But Sunshine Laws, there's nothing to do with what your opinion is of it, whether it's the regurgitation of everything you know or not. Once you accepted it has to be part of the case files. That's the law. So Joe Matthews naturally, now all of a sudden, he's a defendant on the plane SLI filed the lawsuit, right, so he doesn't want to show his manuscripts. So he eyes his attorney, Tom Panzer. Now this Tom

is like one of the biggest lobbyists down here. He donates money to these chefs, to the judges, you know, and they have caps on how much you can donate down here, and but he gets around the cap it's five hundred dollars by doing what's called as bundling. Bundling is when you donate your five hundred many times over

by using other names. For instance, he donates his five hundred, his wife donates five hundred, his wife's business dot, he's the light donates five hundred and six year old daughter, they donates five hundred. Is even younger son donates five hundred, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And that's how he gets around that, so that when he goes in front of these judges, gets favorable hearings and also he gets

cases defending these cops on. There are many, many scandals, especially a broad chef's office that he's defended them many times because of some of their scandals. So naturally, here I am suing these guys at the end, this including the state attorney. You know, they say, you can't fight city, or you can't you're never gonna win. And this is the reason it's called political expediency. These judges will never give an average citizen affair a hearing. So my lawsuit

was dismissed. I peeled it, and the appeals court also dismissed it. They rubber stampony seventeenth District's decision. The judge even stated the appeals court judge stated, all the chief said he didn't use it. I mean, this isn't a judge should know. That's irrelevant whether he used it or not, right because, like I said, his opinion of what that report was. They've been wrong so many times. You know, there's a very good chance they could be wrong one

more time. That that report was useless, you know, and it only became useless after I sued. So I write about the whole loss. In fact, you could read about the laws of at justice Fadam dot com as well as several chapters of my book. And there was another lawsuit in nineteen ninety five by a reporter who also asked for the Adam Mors case files, and they refused to show it to them to him back then, and so he filed a lawsuit against the Hollywood Police Department.

But he won his lawsuit in nineteen ninety six the court, the seventeen Court too, the seventeen Just Recort in Fort Lauderdale. Judge Moe ordered the Hollywood Police Department to release those files on February I believe it was February eighth, nineteen ninety six that were released to the public. But now on that podcast, I see John Walsh claiming that those files were never released. He got them in two thousand and eight when they closed the case, which isn't true.

John Walsh gets so much information wrong about his own son's abduction. They've been public information ever since nineteen ninety six, those files.

cold case specialist. Actually, in my book, I call him more of a cold case cover up specialists because when he first took over the case in nineteen ninety four, he claimed that due to the length of time, it would be impossible to find any new suspects in the Adamo's case. But then all of a sudden, when there was a lawsuit, he found suspects because he did not want those files to be released to the public, and so he told the court that listen, we're still doing

an investigation. We have new suspects. We could end up getting a grand jury together to listen to this, but you got to give us more time. And then the judge wasn't going along with that, so he convinced John Walsh to side on the side of the police department. So John Walsh even decided on the side of the police department trying to keep those files sealed. So John Walsh knew that those files weren't kept sealed, and the judge ordered them to be released in nineteen ninety six.

last episode was done about his son. They did bring the show back, but when they first canceled, they did do an episode on it, and that in that episode, Joe Matthews, remember at that time, was the lead investigator of America's Most Wanted. So that episode totally pinned Adam's murder on his tool. So John Walsh was convinced. He even said how great that show came out. He was

very satisfied with it. But other witnesses all of a sudden when that air started calling the Hollywood Police Department, because every time those kinds of shows air, witnesses start calling, and numerous witnesses called, and that's how I got other witnesses too, like Janis at the Messino. You know, she saw that show and she tried to call America's Most Wanted and she told him, listen, I just watched your

show doing a reenactment with a white cadillact. And she explained that she was there and there was a blue van, and she remembers the blue van because the blue van was parked on the in the fire lane and she was coming around the corner almost and were ended the blue van because she wasn't expecting the blue be a blue van in the northbound lane there, and she almost

ended it, so she remembered it. In fact, when she parked and went inside the mall with her two daughters, she was going to report the blue van, but then once she was inside the most she forgot about it. But she was in the toy department because a daughter wanted to look at some barbie dolls and she saw this the shoveled man there and they locked eyes with Janie and and she he just put the fear in her. So she got out of there. And then it was later that you know that I think days later or

the next day. She heard about that abduction, and she always knew, you know, that had had to be related because the composits were coming out, they were matching. They dismissed her as well, and so she called John Walsh and after they did that show and tried to tell him, he forwarded her name to the UH. How the police department says, hey call this person and interview her. They never called her. Never. There's so many people that he tells them to call and they never call. And I

was gonna say that. You good.

scandal there. And what happened was the FBI heard that there was a lot of corruption at this police department, so they infiltrated the police department with an FBI agent, and the FBI agent acted as a kingpin for the mafia as a coppo because the FBI heard that they were being drugs escorted from different locations by police carts.

So anyway, they set up a stinger operation and they got these police officers to actually give police escurts for thirty eight dollars an hour, using uniforms in uniform with their police cart of from Port Everglades to warehouses. There were trucks filled with drugs, well not real drugs because

this was just a sting operation. But anyway, so after a while, the police chief, his name was Scarberry, he leaked to his underlings that the FBI was on to them, and so all of a sudden, the FBI, to protect their agent, had to call the the sting operation off and they raided the Hollywood Police Department and four of them would ended up in prison for long term prison terms. And the agent said, there would have been a lot more netted, you know, had the chief not leaked to

his underlings about the sting operation. But anyway, this new police chief takes over. So I write to this new police chief, Chad Wag and I congratulate him on his new position and explain who I am. And I told him I'd like to have an interview. But I'd never get an answer. So I started calling down there. Never never get no response, answer machines and nobody ever calls me back. I started going to other locations complaint file complaints.

I went to the City Hall complaints department. I filed a complaint against them, and I left him with a whole portfolio of information as well. And the woman I talked to, her name was shoel Lehoune at the complaints department. She was very interested in what I was saying. She listened to me for like well over forty minutes, and I gave her portfolio and she said she wanted me to come in and talk to the board there. They meet every Tuesday, she tell me, and the Board of

commissions there, she said, the mayor will be there. You need to tell the mayor this. So anyway, she never called me back. After about ten days, I called her back and all of a sudden, her attitude changed. She goes, well, if you have an issue with the Hollywoo Police Department, you need to go to them to resolve your problems. So I said, well, listen, can I just get my portfolio back? Says well, if you want your portfolio back, you have to go to the Hollywod Police Department together.

I mean, her whole attitude was so obvious. Somebody put her in check, you know, and told her to just get rid of me. So I I went to the uh Sheriff's Department. I wrote to uh Charlie crist the governor of Florida, uh uh. And and all these people were apparently calling the Hollywood Police Department and asking them what's going on. Because all of a sudden, one of the detectives, his name is Lyleban, calls me up at home and he goes, okay, I'm gonna give you that meeting.

I'm gon what meeting? Who is this? There is a detective while being at the Hollywood Police Department and says, oh, okay, so you want me to come in from me? He said, yeah, come in Tuesday seven pm like that. So, yeah, well I showed up, but I made sure I let people know where I was gonna be at, and I met the police chief and I asked them to make sure that this is gonna be an amical meeting, and he assured me it would be. And he left me there

with these two detectives in a meeting room. And these detectives acted more like deceased Dahmers unsourced attorney than they did homicide investigators. They did everything they could to try and get rid of me as a witness. In fact, you know, for instance, when I was telling them about how I followed Dahmer, and you know, they would say things like, well, what are you doing following somebody? And

I know that more better than you do. You could have been at this point when he was at that point, and the more you know, stuff like that, just trying to get rid of me, and you can't. You didn't actually see the abduction, so you can't even say it was DOMI was him. So but anyway, finally, when none of that was working, they decided to use a threat in the witness tactic, you know, with arrest. So Loube jumps up, flailing his arms about and he goes You

just admitted you were there. For we know you could have done it. How about if we arrest you? And then he backs up a couple of steps, folds his arm like a tough guy, and with a smirk on his face, he says to me, so I think you want to come back you again? In other words, takeoff, go away. We don't want to hear from many witnesses. So and during that meeting, I even offered to take a polygraph test because I could see they weren't believing anything I was saying. But they were, but they were

just trying to get rid of me. But I offered, and they said, well, polygraphs don't mean anything. They just mean you saw what you think you saw. And I was so incensed. After I left, I went and I self sponsored my own polygraph exam that I paid six

hundred and fifty dollars for. In fact, at first I went to a polygraphic examiner in Hollywood that was supposed to be really well renowned, but they told me that they do a lot of work for the Hollywood Police Department and that it would be a conflict of interest if they gave me one, so they wouldn't they do it? They refused, so I couldn't even get a polygraph test in the same town, so I had to go way

south of Miami. I found somebody who had a good reputation, and he gave me the polygraph exam, which I passed with flying colors, which is good, like I said, because I paid six hundred and fifty dollars for it. And then he also in that and his report, he had some not so good things to say about the Hollywood Police Department because I didn't give him a portfolio to look over, you know, before I came back for the

polygraph exam. So that exam is in the book. Two pages except of it is in my book as well as in my website, so Justice for Adam dot com. You can read the polygraphic exam there. But that's what these cops do. They don't want witnesses, Like I said, they go into full cover up mode. And like Milwaukee's doing the same thing. They cover up. You know, Dahma's

accredited for seventeen murders in Milwaukee. Okay, Well, there's one murder that Dahmer I believe Dahma committed that Dahmer was not credited for, and that's Dean Vaughan who lived in apartment three h eight, that's one floor above Dama. Dahma lived in two thirteen on the second floor. Okay, Now this murder occurred four months before Jeffrey Dahmer was captured. Okay, when Edwards finally escaped Tracy Edwards, he finally escaped Dhma's apartment.

And it was at that time when the police messed up how bad. Realized how bad they've been messing up, because a couple of months before that there was one kid that escaped. Dahmer had this thirteen year old Laotian boy, Contracts and SASM phone and he was trying to make a zombie. That was one of his experiments. He was drilling holes in some of his victims' heads while they were still alive and injecting with a turkey basing needle.

Warded down muradic acid into the brain. Well, he thought his experiment was working with Contract, so he left him home while he went out drinking. In the meantime, Contract was naked, escaped from the apartment. He was wandering around aimlessly out in the street when he's two young seventeen and eighteen year old black girls saw him and called

nine one one. The fire department shows up and they're trying to give the young boy aid and then the police department shows up and the police chased the fire department away. They told them to take off, and then they told the two girls that, you know, well, at first they were talking to the two girls, then here comes Jeffrey Dahmer and Dharma sees what's going on here. So he goes up to the two police officers and says, hey,

that's my friend and my Mike. He told the police officers that's my nineteen year old lover, and they said, well, what's his name? He goes, uh, John, and then the girls are telling him nineteen. He's not nineteen. Look at him. He's just a young little boy because you know, he's Relatians, so you know, uh, they're not the largest people in the world. So the boy was, you know, who looked

younger than his real age. And the police gave him back to Jeffrey Dahmer, and Jeffrey Drhmat immediately executed him, cut his head off and boiled it and kept the head as a trophy. Because when the girls were protesting, the police told them to take off or they're gonna take them downtown, which means arrest them. So they forced the girls to take off, and the girls were insisting, insisting,

and then was arrested them. So finally when Dahma was captured, they realized what happened, and they were worried because all the black community as well as the gay community were out in huge numbers, I mean hundreds of people in the streets and they were afraid they were gonna be riots.

So they went into full cover up mode. They didn't want anybody to know how many times they were in the Oxford Building all because of Jeffrey Dahmer because of stink complaints, complaints and opened a homicide investigation of Dean Vaughan that was an ongoing for four months, when in fact, when that Dean Vaughn was first found a drug uh sodomized and murdered on his bed with his pants pulled

down to his ankles. Okay, they interviewed everybody in all forty nine units of the Oxford Building, knowing it had to be an inside job because that building has a locked door, so you need a key to get in, and if you're a visitor, you have to use the intercom system to be buzzed in, so they figured it had to be somebody, so they interviewed everybody, including Jeffrey Dahmer, but Drma claimed he didn't know Dean Vaughan, you know, And so after the after the case was closed, I

called some of the residents that lived in that building and they told me that, of course Dormer knew who Dean Vaughan was. They seen Dahmer going into his apartment, and they seen Dean Vone going into Dormer's apartment periodically, so of course they knew each other. But the police are covering up that is not one of his murders, and they never really grilled Dharma on it after his capture.

Calling to the most Milwaukee police files, when they interviewed Dahma about it, Dama simply said he didn't know the guy, and they let it go at that. That's all they did. So, you know, they never really pressed Dahma on it, and

they never tried. There's nothing anywhere that I could find where they tried to do any DNA matching to Jeffrey Dahmer, because you know, you can't commit a murder like that without leaving some kind of forensic evidence behind right, but there's nothing to show they did anything to try and

see who really murdered Dean won. In fact, if you go to the Milwaukee Police cold case files even today to check, Dean Mourne is listed in their cold case files saying that if anybody has any information, please call the Milwaukee Police Department. That's all they have just put in the cold case files, followed away and put a little statement there asking for help when they don't even

try to solve the case. Like I say, you know a lot of these police departments, they're very good, but until they mess up, and then there's an old saying when you mess up, never fess up, And that's what they do. Milwaukee does that, Miami does that. Miami does not want to make the connection to Adam Walsh. But I can tell you firsthand that Jeffrey Dahmer was there.

You know, they said there's no coincidence in murder. So how is it possible for me before Adam's even abducted, to have this encounter with somebody follow him all the way to the Toy department. Because I get this feeling about this guy. He had this persona that he knew he was dangerous. But my thinking at the time never in my mind in nineteen eighty one that I think a six year old kid was in danger. Never, I mean what a twenty year old Dahma was twenty at

the time. In nineteen eighty one, I was, I was thirty four, So I was thinking, Dormody's gonna go up to somebody my age or you know, at least an adult. There would be woods exchange, the chovy match, maybe a fight, So I'm thinking maybe somebody might need help, at least the witness at the very least. So that's the only reason I was following him. But when he didn't come out of the toy department, I'm thinking, oh, he must

be playing the video games. And I just turned around and left and went home, because that is at the end of the morning. I didn't My thinking was he's gonna come back my way. I didn't want another encounter with him, so I left this. Like I said, it was that very evening I heard about it on the news. I knew. I always knew it had to be that guy, just know who he was until nineteen ninety one when I saw as much shot and I knew this was the guy. So now I had a name to put

to that face. So how can you say it was anybody else? Even if you don't think it was Dormer or whoever you think it was, you have to believe that person I encountered has to be a suspect. The Smiths an encounter like that.

him when you take it into consideration, how accurate it is, and and that we have to remind people that that composite was used at the other mall as well. So there's two groups of people seeing the same person, validating what you said when you saw it as well, and you showed those people which you said was really convincing. Was the nineteen eighty one mug shot right where Dahmer looked a little bit different than what some people might.

with his mother and his grandmother. They parked in the same area where where very Walsh parked by the north entrance, and they went into the mall and ended up all

the way in the food court having lunch. Well, Maryland, Timothy's mother, she didn't feel like walking all the way back to get the retrieve the blue van, so she asked her mother, Timothy's grandmother, Carolyn Hudson, to and Timothy they went to get the blue van and then we're gonna drive it around to the east side food court so she could didn't have to walk so for But on the way back to get the blue van, Timothy stopped in the toy department because it was right there

by the north entrance, in the corner of them and while he was in the toy department, he saw this man standing there pretending like he was looking at something like a toy in his hand, and he just looked

so disheveled and out of place. And they eventually left and went out the north door, and when they stepped out the north door, the guy that oh before they stepped out the north door, the guy ran out of the store, and a couple minutes later they went out, but by that time, Dharma had retrieved the blue van, and when they stepped off the curb, he almost hit them, he almost ran over them. So Timothy ran around to the west side to see what the heck this guy's

in such a rush for. And he saw the guy stop at the west side, jump out of the vehicle, run inside, and come back out with this kid and toss him into the blue van. And he told his grandmother, but you know, they just didn't think that much of it and left, and like days later, when they heard

about the abduction, they called the Hollywood Police Department. It was Timothy that made one of the composites that are the spinning image of Jeffrey Dahmer, as well as the blue Van bowl that was first started from the Hollywood Mall, but they ended up dismissing him as well. Years later, after I got the case files in two thousand and eight, when they closed the case, I started tracking witnesses down and one of them was Timothy Pottenburg, who lives in

Central Florida. Now, so I went up. Because a lot of these witnesses, I was able to track down their addresses, but not phone numbers because a lot of people don't have landline phones anymore and cell phones are much more difficult to track down. So I always do the next best thing. I just go to their house and knock on the door. And that's what I did. I went to his house in Central Florida and knocked on the door.

He was sleep and his wife was up. I explained to his wife why I wanted to speak to Timothy, and she got roustled him out of bed real quick. He came out and we started talking and Timothy told me that the case is already closed now. So Timothy told me he never did believe that artist Toool's story because artist tool didn't match the guy. He knew it had to be that guy he made the compositive. But

he remembers that composite like was yesterday. I showed him photos of Tool and he scoffed at the notion that it could have been Tool. And I showed him mug shots and photos of Dominant. He swears they matched his composite. And that's the guy he was trying to describe. He swears it was Jeffrey Dahmer. The police don't want to hear him. They've never talked to him again. They refused to talk to him or interview him. And that goes on and on and on. Vernon Jones was another one.

Vernon Jones. Listen to what. Vernon Jones was one of the black boys that was in the toy department. Vernon Jones was staying with his grandfather who was in the lawn care business in how he lived in Holendale and he used to like to buy craftsman tools. So he would go to the Hollywood Mall to look at tools, and one day he had Vernon with him. He was in a tool department that at nine years old, Vernon

wasn't interested in tools. He was more interested in playing the new video games that were out, the aty video games. So while his grandfather was shopping for tools, Vernon went over to the toy department and he was playing this video game with Adam, who was in a Tory baseball game, and there was this disheveled man standing about fifteen feet away hissing at Vernon. He was saying, hey, you to

me here like that. Vernon kept trying to ignore him, but then Vernon looked up at him and all of a sudden he heard this big crack because he wasn't able to concentrate on the game and Adam had gotten a Grand Slam home run and beating him. Vernon said he was so upset by losing to the younger boy because he was nine Adam was six, that he just went around the other side and started playing Donkey Kong

and left Adam there. And then a few minutes later he saw that guy walking with this boy passed his ale. So you can put the timeline together, you know, as he was walking mea saw him standing holding at him by the hand and then leaving him with him. Vernon saw him passing his aisle. Philip lor then sees him

going out the exit. Bill Bowen sees him in the parking lot, and there's many other witnesses that are in between all of those, you had the full timeline of all the witnesses, and one that wasn't even there is their favorite scapegoat, the security guard. They pinned this on her, saying that she kicked Adam out of the store. How does she kick Adam out of the store when all these witnesses see Adam being dragged out and walked out.

You know, he was walked out until he got close to the threshold, and then Adam was protesting as much as a six year oken protest. So Dahma picked him up and just carried him out at that point. And then once he got outside, Adam was squirming so much he ended up just holding him up by that one arm in the air which Bill Bowen saw. So how is that that their their suspect out of his tool picked that saw Adam out in the parking lot and gave him candy and talked him into getting his car.

That doesn't doesn't even close to what the real witnesses are saying. The witnesses that were there. Yeah, you know, it's just a totally fabricated story that was made up by Detective Joe Matthews. Yes, based on one witness and this witness who the police even had to threatn because he couldn't he couldn't pass any polygraph tests. They polygraphed

him three times. He failed all three times. They sent him to talk to as psychiatrists to see if that would help, and and the psychiatrist that he was incapable of working with the guy, you know, because he's the one that saw that episode of the White Cadillact that they did on that last episode of America's Most Wanted of that John Most did a show of his son and they did a reenactment with the White Joe's re enactment.

And yeah, so he called and he's when that initiated that them to do that White Cadillact thing, because he claimed he was there and saw this guy talking to at him and getting a white Cadillac. But the problem with that is in his statements, he was there at ten o'clock in the morning, and then he went back because he went there to buy some camping gear because

they went out into the Everglades to go camping. And then at three o'clock in the afternoon he went back again to pick up a few more things that he forgot to pick up earlier. So in Joe matthews book, he writes that he was there at three o'clock and then he was there a couple hours hours earlier. Well, no, he was there five hours earlier. But Joe Matthews is trying to make make it as close to twelve as he can, to make it look like William Mitzler was

there when Adam was abducted. But he wasn't even there when Adam was abducted, and that security guard wasn't there because according to Revey's Walsh's own statement, and in tears of rage, she this is what Revey has to say. She left Adam in the toy department and went over to the lamp department. When she went back to retrieve Adam, he was gone, but the other boys were still there. So she was trying to ask all the other boys if they saw her son, but they were too busy

playing the games to answer her. But finally one Latin boy answered by pointing over to the west exit. Revey says, the you know, the west exit is ridiculous. She came in the north entrance. Why would I Adam go out the west exit, which is where all the other witnesses say they saw Adam being dragged out, so the kid was pointing in the right direction, but Revey thought the kid was either trying to be polite to an adult or he was Spanish and didn't understand what she was saying,

so she couldn't find Adam. She ran out into the mall and ran up and down the mall a couple of times looking for Adam, and then went back to the toy department. When she went back, all the kids were gone, which means what it means Adam was kicked out before all the other kids were, and not kicked out. Miss went missing before the security guard went there and

kicked all the kids out of the toy department. She kicked them out if Adam was already gone while Reve was out in the hallway, which means Adam was missing for twenty minutes. Because I got the full timeline, Adam was missing for twenty minutes before the security god even went it. In fact, some of the commotion that they say that there was could have been Adam protesting. Yeah, Adam was screaming. He was the one that was screaming, and somebody called security.

the Adam Walsh Case and police Misconduct. This is published on book Baby, and I want to commend you on a very very very impressive package with all the source documentation and photos and just a fantastic looking like collectible book. Tell us how people can get your book, and tell us one more time about the websites that you can that they could go and visit.

you can buy the book. The problem is the site is not updated yet, so the book that's listed on my website when you click on it is the first edition that came out in two thousand and fifteen. But you can go to Amazon and just type in Frustrated Witness. You'll get the new copies of the second edition. There's two different books. Whe's a paperback and when's a hardcover. Now the cover on the on the hardcover book the crime scene tape. I changed the original book twenty fifteen

says crime scene. You stand in the crime scene tape, crime scene, do not cross. But one of my attorneys told me, every time she looks at that cover, because that's the room where Adam was murdered, and with the blood spatter on the back wall, every time she looks at it, she thinks that it should say crime scene, do not investigate. So I changed the crime scene tape. So and it's also says second edition. Now the paperback copy, I did a completely different book. On the paperback copy, I have

Jeffrey Darmer's mugshot on the front cover. So either one of those you can buy the hardcover. The paperbacks are a little cheap, the paperbacks going for about thirty two dollars. The hardcover is about thirty eight dollars, or if you want, you can go to the Apple Bookstore and I have the book listed there for only nine dollars in change at the Apple Bookstore, so you can go there and download it if you have it an Apple product.