FOR MEMBERS ONLY-Jerry Vairo

to be told. He said he would like to commission him to write a book detailing the life and times of his great uncles. He was invited to travel in New York City to meet Ah meet him his great uncle Sonny Della Universida, the last living sibling of Pauli Lefty Delhi Della Universida, as well as a former criminal attorney and his brother. The following week, he was introduced

to every one in Little Italy, New York City. In videotape seventeen hours of interviews with Sonny, he told compelling stories about many of his life experiences with well known gangsters and associates of his brother Pauli, many of whom were the who's who of the mafia. After return home from his fascinating of very productive tape sessions, he looked up Sunny's brother's name on the Internet, as well as sought confirmation on his identity in history books and documents

about the mafia. He found nothing, but still believed in his story and those related to him by other relatives. He decided to go to the definitive source about the mafia, the FBI. After a few days of working his way up to chain at command, he was finally directed by a department head to talk to a man who was described as the expert on the history of the mafia. He promised to be a person who would definitely be able to confirm Pauli's existence and ranking if he did

in fact exist. He did confirm that Pauli Lefty was not only known by law enforcement authorities, but that he was known to be the configliere for all five families. He was stunned and knew that he had been offered a unique opportunity to learn secrets that had never been disclosed before. As the sagon folded, he granted an insight

into he was granted. He gained an insight into the origins of the American Mafia, its principal key players, as well those unknown bosses who ran the whole syndicate in a shroud of secrecy. The book we're featuring this evening is for members only, and it is not just an expose a It is an in depth look into the life and times of known figures and secret bosses who reign supreme during the formative years in the growth of

the Mafia worldwide. The book we're featuring this evening for members only, The Story of the Mobs Secret Judge, with my special guest, Jerry Verro. Welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Jerry Verro, thanks Dan, thanks for having me well, thank you very much. This is going to be a very very interesting interview because of the information in this book. It's a real eye opener and it dispels a lot of the myths that have been built up over the years from all kinds

of sources, not only fictional but also nonfiction sources. As we find out from this book that you've described as an expose there, certainly it can qualify as that. Now tell us, Jerry, tell us how you were related to these people and why this was an important story that you decided or people around you decided that it was important to be told. Now this story. Tell us how you related and why this is an important story that needed to be told.

kid that they didn't think I was listening. Others I asked outright. As I got older, and I found out that he was a powerhouse of some sort, but I didn't know why. I didn't know thee specifics. I didn't know whether he was a leader of some sort. He dealt with all five families, and I didn't know why, because everything that I knew about organized crime, it didn't

make sense. Well, I started interviewing his brothers, realizing I had better get this information because you know, his brothers and sisters started passing away, and they all wanted this story told about their brother for various reasons. And I thought the story needed to be told as well, because there's so much fiction out there. And I watched these documentaries and I just laughed sometimes, like, you guys don't know what you're talking about. That's not really what happened.

So I thought to get it out there. But at the same time, I didn't want to exclose anybody that's still alive. So a lot of the people in the book that were close to my uncle have already long gone. And I did the best I can research and found out that none of their descendants are involved either.

So I knew that G. T. Harroll having that position and he would be able to go up the ladder in the FBI where they were ignored, ing may I never heard of him, never heard of him, and all that type of stuff, And so they would talk to him knowing that he would he would he would get the information, but yet he would keep it in confidence,

which he did. So we can't name who told him certain things, but he was able to climb up the ladder, I mean called the FBI to going to look and say, yeah, this guy is all the intelligence retire So that was the main reason. And then you know he did some

other projects before he sold some scripts to hollywoods. I knew he was a good writer, and he was recommended by the two lawyers we hired, one and entertainment lawyer Ken Lake and another criminal lawyer, John Lake, and who was very helpful in our research, by the way, and actually now he's a circuit court judge in Sarasota, Florida.

the lawyers would have for protection as well as verification. Well, GT originally got these transcripts to look through and he did research all over the internet. He couldn't find he found some stuff on Sonny, some drug charges you know that he had, but nothing on Paulie. So he didn't want to write it because he didn't want to write about what he thought it was a fake character. So he that's where he started working his way up the FBI. And then of course when he came to New York

City when he did his actual interviews. GT wasn't there during the original interviews with the stenography. He came later and we said, we better get my uncle on cap right because he's not getting any younger. Then talking to some old timers a little lialy, some would go on camera briefly and realize that take me off and whatnot, and that's when he was really convinced. But he wasn't going to do it until he had some sort of

what would have convinced him proof. I mean, it's tough to say proof because he for some reason, the FBI won't release his records. I'm a criminal lawyer has tried and they said it's classified. Why is his records classified? But anyway, GT got enough information to make him feel comfortable and going forward with the book, and he believes it emphatically, and he's even till this day. He gets more information on his own. He's just that curious about it.

Now tell us how this all started. Tell us about your your great uncles or your uncle's pardon me, and the great uncles, and tell us about their background in Sicily. How tell us about as much as you know about that, and was told in the book as well well.

and Naples and whatnot. Well, the stories I heard when they first came over is that their father was trying to get away from the gangsters and the fascists and Sicily, and when they arrived in the Lower East Side, they weren't prepared for or what they saw and what they experienced. Well, Italians were discriminated against in a major way. There were signs in the storefronts that would say Italians need not

apply and things of that nature. And my great grandfather, Antonio del universe a Napoulion, Sonny's father, wound up having to work for some of the very people he was trying to get away from in Sicily. Well, they were very poor. They had to take in a boarder at one point to live in the house with them. On top of that, the mother died very young. When the lasts child, Sonny, was born, the mother passed away while my grandmother Sadie had a drop out of school to

take care of the family. She was fourteen years old her self at the time. She could only do that for so long. And then what wound up happening is five editor seven children were sent up to an orphanage to be raised. I mean, just think about that. They take away five ed of your seven children, while my grandmother Sadi stood behind. She was already old, and I

to take care of herself. And Paulie stood behind because from what I was told, eleven twelve years old, he already had his own rackets going on in the Naghboros. He stood behind. So it's a story to also show people, you know what some of these Italian immigrants, you know, I don't want to say they were pushed into it.

They had choices, but there weren't many choices. You either change your name to an americanized name, like a lot of them, did you try to function and you take the job sweep in the streets, which which they would do. They had pride and others just said, you know what, I'm taking this route of organized crime. And I also believe from hearing stories from my great uncles, organized crime

is not created equal completely. It depends. I mean someone that runs a prostitution ring versus someone that runs a club with gambling and booze and things like that. It not created the same, you know. I mean, it eventually becomes legal anyway, the prostitution rings, the drugs and the murder, for Hia, that's a different animal. So it's not all created equal. So I learned a lot from them, and they had some very rough lives. But that being said, it needs added a seven children. Five out of the

seven became legitimate and got legitimate jobs. It was just Paulie and Sonny that got involved in organized crime.

out in there. And then he owned another grill down in that area. Another name that most people never heard of yet I heard from his grandson. The guy. His name is Lenny Azarello. He sent me pictures of Jimmy Alto he sent me for some reason. Jimmy aunt was also a high ranking Freemason, which I never knew Italians were involved in. I have all that documentation, but it was after the book was published that this guy, Lenny,

by the way, is very highly educated. Okay, he's got a master's from NYU, he's got a Bachelor of Arts and all benin. He's an Emmy Award winning music composer. So he isn't just some you know, loser. He's a credible guy. Well, that was one of my uncle's main people. So in a nush and not to get off topic, my uncle PAULI wasn't the only person that maybe you know, these academics out there and historians never heard of. There

were quite a few of them. Well, two of the main people that my uncle's mentors, if you will, was Jimmy Alto, Lucky Luciano and Maya Lansky that I know of, and they taught him different things. Alto and Luciana were full blooded Sicilians, just like my uncle Pauli. They kind of took him under his wing, and Mayor Lance he schooled him on how to control your temper. And had it. This is a business. This isn't about just breaking heads

all the time. And I think that's why my uncle became a Consolieri advisor later on as he got older. But those were some of the names that were here involved in. But he never became a made man. He didn't have to. He was he was independent. He dealt with all five families, and his take was to be a made guy.

He was close to Tommy Lukesey, very close to Vito Genovic, even though Vito was from Naples. So he was close with all the who's who, all the big names that people here. But his mentors were Jimmy Alto, Lucky Luciano and Maya Lanski.

business to these guys. The only difference was they didn't have a license to do it. So, yeah, it was illegal, but you know there wasn't It wasn't as bad as maybe as it's poor trade. Yeah.

a gopher for my uncle Paulie. My uncle also had clubs all over the city where he would he was the shylock. He would lend the money for the for the guys that wanted to gamble. So my uncle Sonny would go back and forth, he would deliver the money, he would pick it if he would pick it up. Because my uncle's you know, kind of laid low. What they knew about my uncle but wouldn't reveal. The records is that he traveled back and forth to Sicily and

he would use different names going back and forth. Now, how he got that position was in the forties, Lucky Luciano had three consolieres, which was common back then. It was Fido Jennovese, Tony Bender and of course my uncle paul Lefty well when he was gonna when he was getting deported. Uh, there was my uncle Paulie was actually

in line to take over that family. He didn't want to be bothered with it because of what happened to the prior bosses Marenzano, Maseria, then Luciano getting deported, so Luciano took him under his wing. They gave the family to Vito Genovese, which my uncle thought was a smart move because Vita was kind of a wild man figure that you take the family, god, you take the limelight me. While Vito was uh, you know, kind of in debt

to him for letting him do that. Because Pauli was a full blooded Sicilian, he was in line to take over after Luciano or Vito was from Naples. Well, Pauli became what they later referred to as ill Messagero. He would go back and forth to Sicily. Initially he would go to Sicily and he would take messages from Luciano as well as money, okay, because he was because Luciano still had an interest in all five families. Then he started to get to know to Sicilian bosses after Luciano

passed away. So basically he would go over there. He would get money, typically money that they used. It was. It was laundering, the narcotics money because Sicilians were big and drug trafficking. He would bring over the money. He would lend it to the five families for one point a week and they would open casis. They used it for the casinos in Cuba, Vegas and everything. So he was basically financing a lot of what all fire. It wasn't all the money didn't come from him, but a

substantial amount of money came from him. Now in turn, he operated his club. He did what he wanted to do. But he was he was the money man for all five families, so he was protected by all five bosses he was protecting. He had the backing of the bosses in Sicily. So how he was described to me by all the time as he was a boss without a family, and it was known only by the highest ranking guys what his true position was. His club was his cover

to the lower ranking guys. So that some of the police, you know, the FEDS that would talk to Georgia over the phone with tell him what they knew. I know that our criminal lawyer John Lake and also had some conversations with people actually right from the Department of Justice. But a lot of NYPD's never heard of him, never heard of him at all. I kind of laughed, I said, what do you mean you never heard of me? He grew up on Martin Hester in the middle of Little Italy.

His entire life is not as he lived in a small town in upstate New York. How can you not I can understand if you didn't know what his true position is, but how can you not know who he is? He lived, he was born there, and he died there. He never left, So you know, I don't know. I mean, I don't know any answer why they never heard of him before? I mean I can again, I can understand him saying eeah, we knew him, he was just this

or that, but never heard of him. I can never hear of everybody in little little he heard of Paul left he now.

York Times picked it up. But there were huge containers of morphine that was being sent over to the soldiers during World War Two, and Key I didn't know how he did it at first were when we were writing the book, but he obviously was. You know, the five page article and True Detective gets into details. But in a nutshell, they hijacked these morphine tablets and these containers

on the docks ready to be shipped overseas. They put them on trucks, they took them and they put them in a in a garage, and they stored it in our warehouse and they built it. Okay. I've had some old timers that refuted that, saying he never would have done that, he had more money than he needed. But then I have others say, well, he was. It was suspected that he was involved heavily with World War two.

He was. He helped Luciano in World War two, because Luciano didn't speak that well in English, but my uncle spoke no good English when an accent a little bit more than mine maybe, and flew in Sicilian. So he would have known about those containers being shipped over and what he did was, after they were shipped over, he alerted they wore departments that they could replace him immediately

because he kind of felt bad about it. But it was a five hundred thousand dollars score in nineteen forty five, which I don't know what that amounts to today. And it was funny about that. Two things, number well several things. One, how come that's never been reported in any newspaper, any book, never so I could just disappeared. It wasn't like it was the back of a pharmacy. It was the largest narcotics heist in history at the time. So if I'm a good so what I say to some of these

academics out there status is all beloney. If you're a good historian and reporter and you see this, you're not going to say to yourself, hmm, who was this Paul w universe of the guy that pulls off something like this, How did he get away with it? He was either already a heavy hitter himself or he worked for somebody who is But the fact that it just disappeared, so to speak, such a large heist till this day, I

still don't know. But that's that's what he did to it was the largest narcotics in history at that time in nineteen forty five, five hundred thousand dollars. And that's what they found. That's what they that's what they suspected. I think it was more than that.

in the next spot. They move up automatically. Okay, if someone dies off or if they're really good earners, they move up. But typically they understand it's the consoliarity for each family. Like Robert Duval was the consolierity and the Godfather. He would always advise Marlon Brando. That's what he did. Right now, Each family as one designated and they're typically the most trusted member. My uncle was an advisor consolieri not only for all five, but other families throughout the country.

Dealt with Chicago, he dealt with the Vegas bosss. And the reason being is because he was neutral. He wasn't a member of any one family, so they would use him and sit downs because he would be neutral because he had no allegiance to any particular family and they knew he was just a money guy, and that's what he did. So a constanieti is a counselor an advisor. It's like a lawyer for the family.

true life. One of these stories is the the airport in the Good Fellows, the movie Goodfellas, and now in the book you talk about that thirty three years later, that your relative was involved in this heist five million dollars in cash and eight hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in jewels were stolen, and also that Paul Verrio

was a business associate of PAULI Lefty. We'll talk about We'll talk a little bit about Jimmy Hoffe as well, but tell us to take us back to this heist that was portrayed in the movie Goodfellas.

got away with it. He was the last one to get caught, so they figured they'd consulted, and they consulted with him on a lot of things. He was he was supposedly a genius, is what I was told so Paul's ario from when I was still consulted with him on exactly how to do it and had to plan it. And my uncle had connections in Italy, so he knew all about when the you know, he had connections in Italy where the where the planes were coming from, so

he consulted with him on it. Now, the interesting thing is I got to talk to Henry Hill before he passed away, and he didn't know anything about it. But he also admitted, which makes sense, that he wouldn't have known of somebody like that and that high in that higherarchy of of of organized crime, but someone like his, his boss, Paulisio, would have would have dealt with my uncle.

So yeah, he knew. He consult again, all five families consulted him, and yeah, he was involved in it, and he I know he got some money out of it, because I don't want to name who, but some of the family members, my family members got items from that heist, and one was a Girod Parago watch, which is kind of like in the class of a Rolex. And we were just told that there's some stuff that fell off the truck at the airport. Who was some stuff. There's

some small items, no big deal. But yeah, he consulted with him, and so he wasn't. But yet at this point he was operating completely under the RAIDAR. So only Paul Verio and some other heavy hitters would have known that he was even consulted. The rest of them are not going to know. He remained under the RAIDAR and he preferred it that way.

a hit man for the mob. So tell us about Richard Koklinsky and Paul Verio and Jimmy Hoffa.

the way. Well, one day he has my uncle Sonny down at his house visiting him in Jacksonville, and Sonny is talking to G. T. Harrold's son, Okay, Chris, and he starts telling him about different things, and she just knows you when you get with these old timers, they have so much information that they go in different directions and it's tough to keep him on one subject. While he starts talking about, Yeah, I know Paul Vario at this chop shop on Flatlands Avenue in Brooklyn, and I

used to go visit him there. He had one on Fountain Avenue. I used to go visit him and we used to eat and all that. No, you know how any bodies they crushed in. They used to charge you about oney fifteen hundred per body. And he starts naming all these names, and in the middle of it he says, halfa So George's Gt. Harrold's in the other room. He comes slide down and says, what what is that name? He said, half Jimmy, Yeah, Jeremy Haff. He goes, so,

what what's the big deal what's the big deal? I mean, I understand. I mean these guys are the ones that accused of taking out you know, our pre.

of the black car was rolled up. Someone rolled up in an oriental type brook opens it up. There's halfa sitting there, white face, he remembers him with a with a bullet hole in his head. Rolled it back up. He says, he took it over to the he called it, you know, the crushing machine, picked it up, put it in a crusher and as it's crushing it was a little spicket in the ground. Paul Verrio had a hose there and he had his thumb on it. There was no kN I was only spraying the car down as

it's crushing it, because fluids are coming out all over it. Well, he tells that story. He doesn't He's asked several times, so what George did g T. Harrold's I keep calling George. His name is George. He interviewed him several different times, five or six different occasions, and asked him the story. Sonny told the story of Verbatim every single time to a t. And remember, seventy eight years old at the time. He he doesn't know who killed him, doesn't know when

he wound up in New York. He just knows he's the last place he saw him. Was there. Well, George does a little research and he finds out that some very credible people, starting with Bill Banano, the son of Joe Banano, was told by his father that Jimmy Hoffer in fact was crushed in a car and was in a bumper of some GM vehicle. And then I'm watching an interview on TV and I see Richard Koklinsky. They were interviewing him and they asked him what happened to half?

And he left because I heard he was he was crushed in a car. Well, that makes sense on several levels, because you know, the Bananos worked that area of Brooklyn, Okay, Columbu more down by Avenue U. They worked at are Richard Koklinsky worked. He used to do hits for the Demeyo crew, and the DeMeo crew is in that same neighborhood. So it all makes sense. And then what made sense to me is about twenty years earlier, when I was living in Queens, New York, I was at a whole

new level of mischief. We were stealing cars and we were smashing them up. We were playing smash up Derby. So my uncle Sonny grabs me one time. I'm probably twenty years old. He said, what the heck you're doing here? Kid? Vandalism is the absolute worst crime. You get nothing out of it. He goes, come with me. I got to take you some much if he takes me and my cousin. This is the late eighties, somewhere in Brooklyn. And he takes this to Brooklyn and there's these rows of these junkyards.

It was right off for the Bell parket in Pennsylvania Avenue. So long story short, we go in, We pull up, it's about eleven o'clock at night, goes to the gate and some guys said, hey, Sonny, hell are yeah, how are you doing? Letting me in to the front of the front of the junk yard was all the beat up cars. As you went back, you saw the crushing machine. You saw these single white mobile home trailers are used at offices. And he took me all the way in

the back. But they had this garage and you could see through the windows. You could see something going on in their lights and sparks. Anyway, it was a chop shop. They were cutting up cars back there. They actually gave you a list on a piece of paper, Granddam three hundred dollars, Corvette desk, blah blah blah. So long story show, we're leaving, we'll pull it away, and I says, uncle, Sonny, let's go, what's the deal there? That's Pauliverio's shop. I

didn't know who Paul Verio was yet. I never heard of him because Goodfellas wasn't out yet. Din't even know who the heck it was. So he laughed, He goes and how many bodies of crushing? And that's where Hafer went. That's what they do with Haffer. They got rid of him in there. Me and my cousin looked at him. Your hair right, and he just laughed it off and never said another word. We never followed up with it.

But the point being is twenty years earlier approximately, he told me the same that's as brief as he mentioned. But I was at that chop shop. And then he tells G. T. Harrold the same story. You know about twenty years later. That's what I told George, I says.

I says, he's telling the truth, And like George says, well, if you just look through the book, some of the claims your uncle Sonny makes from the heist, him defending himself in court against it against the famous judge Irving Younger from his theater with de Niro, all these things that he claims, and he could later prove how cany en not believe a word? The guy says, he can prove everything just about what he's saying with documentation that we put in the book. So that's how that story went.

So GT believed that immediately, and you know that's where we put it in the bookcase. There's other famous people that that back it up. On top of Sonny. Look, Sonny is when he did the interview in Manhattan, he had to picture at his interview. Now he says that his brother asked the mind of the largest narcotics heist in history at the time. But but but it was never been reported. He defended himself in court ocame want a habeas corpus against a famous prosecuting attorney who became

a judge and later a professor. The same judge befriended him and married him later in his private chambers. Oh, by the way, when I became I became the big shut and off off Broadway and Janeiro did his first acting job there. Okay, he walks out the attorney doing the interviews, looks at me. He says, either we have the greatest story he never told. Well, your uncle's a little bit off his rocker. Well, of course, another day he comes in with all this documentation everything what he

just said. He's got his marriage certificate in there, he's got all kinds of you've read the book, you've seen it. He could document all of it. So at this point the tens, you're going to believe everything this guy's saying. And that's where he got his credibility. That's why George, you know, G. T. Harrow believed hop when he said it, because you could back everything else up.

first role where he played five different characters. So you know that the uh that lends a real power to people too, in in organized crime where people are owning major casinos and major entertainment clubs, and like you say, it's a different environment when prohibition was, when this whole thing started or in at least in the forties where with prohibition it really you weren't on the other side of the law. Everybody indulged in all of these things until it became legal.

and his drug dealing life. He opens up the theater and he opens up right in the heart of the all FOURF Broadway district at the time, run by Ellen Stewart Lomama, and within a short period of time he gets referred to as Lapapa, and he had all kinds of famous people in there again, including Robert de Niro, whe he did his his first ever acting job, and that's documented in de Niro's autobiography as well as on the internet in The Village Voice and some of those

other things. So that was an amazing story in itself, and there was some other famous people there as well. But like he said, he never would have gotten that spot in the off Broadway district and he wouldn't have the money to open up the theater do any And if it wasn't for his brother Paulie, little did he know that De Niro, according to him, knew his brother Pauli from you know a nudity literally was a big shop.

See the next body is no I've been told by by people that even Mont Scorsese he probably knows that paul Lefty was the big He was very influential an organized crime. But they don't know the specifics, like why why are the bosses coming up to him? Why is he getting treated this way? He looks like just a club owner. They didn't know the reason why he was so powerful. We didn't know the details either until you know the little small sizzle reel you saw from Tony Napoli.

And that's not for me. If three or four hours of DVD with all kinds of details that he told us, he's the one who kind of connected the dots for us when some of the areas in the book were gray where we knew my uncle was a leader. But why why are the five families listening to him?

a separate book. That should be a separate book, because there's a lot more to it right now.

that's how the families got their names. It wasn't from the Commission when they started five families that was that was created by a journalist who called these different crews. You know, one crew ran Brooklyn, one crew in Manhattan, Queen's Construction, different these series of crews. They they were maybe all under Carlo Gambino, for example, he handled all these crews. He had he had one Coppo running one crew,

one Coppo another crew, one another crew. But back then he said, they were known as like that's the sixth Avenue crew, that's one hundred and nh Street crew, that's this, that's that, or like some of the famous names, the Purple Street Gang, the Mulberry Street Crew. See, if you think about it, you could look, you can document this. There was a group called the Mulberry Street Crew. Well a crew, they were just a crew of guys. And because of the journalists coming up with this, they became

known as a family. And then of course the the organized crime adopted it as well. And you know always that crew, well he's with his family. But you so it's proof if you look back that they were these different crews, they were called cruise had they become family. Well, the Mulberry Street Crew was a part of what they referred to as the Genevese family. So that's what Sonny remembers as and that's his take. I don't know if

that's necessarily true or not. It makes sense if you look at it, but he basically says, they never called them families. There were always crews. And that was his take on one. And I don't know exactly the time frame and when it changed from cruise to families, but if you look at some of them, they are you know, the you know Avenue you crew, That's what they were called. But then later they were associated with one big family.

be killed that kind of maloney boloney. The drugs way back when and there was major, major heroin coming in through the docks and my uncle negotiated with the help of not Albert Anastasia, but tough Tony Anastasia, to allow the Sicilian steamships to come in and give them a period of time to settle in before they were searched, and he had to go. He had to use Tony Anastasia to negotiate with the unions. And the heroin came in from fruit cans, olive oil cans. You heard of

coppuccino machines. So whenever I would watch a special, now heard him say that the old timers were against drugs. You know, they organized Crankiet baloney. They were major in drug traffick, and they did heroin out of Sicily through the French connection, of course, the connection and all that, and then they had the cocaine coming from South America, so they weren't all at it. There was. To me,

it's the biggest myth. And I can't believe some documentaries are out there that's still say that it's the biggest baloney.

have to check with anybody. He was already he was already, honest, she was already a high ranking guy that had the backing of all the heavyweights. So the Sonny wouldn't Sonny was just dealing drugs. He would get drugs. I don't even think he got it from his brother, and he would he would get it and he would cut it and he would deal it up in Midtown Manhattan and you know, Harlem and some of the other gangsters territories, and so.

touched anything like that. He was above that.

course people are running and they were grabbing it. Well, when he was tried, he defended himself in court against a prosecuting attorney at the time named Irving Younger. He didn't know who he was when he was doing the interviews for the stenographer and the attorney was interviewing him and he mentioned Irving Younger. He stopped the stenographer for me.

He says, you knew Irving Younger. So so he says, yeah, I know me, you know, And the attorney knew who he was because apparently Irving Younger has a book called the Book of Evidence. And when you take the bar and you study to being attorned law school, it's a book. It's a mandatory book to read, called the Book of Evidence. But Sonny had no idea when he was doing the interviews.

But anyway, he defends himself in court and he wins what he calls a habeas corpus because what he said to the judge, he said, hey, wait a minute, you're telling me exactly five thousand dollars was found that I was counterfeiting. He goes, that money wound up on the street. Okay, how can you're telling me that they found every single twenty dollar bill there and it amounted the five thousand dollars.

I claim No, So he won this habeas corpus. Well, the nerving younger approached him and commended him, said, wow, you did a great job there and whatnot. And he started meeting with him for lunch after that and started talking to him about gangsters, and Sonny kept telling him, no, no, no, this, I didn't do that. This is what happened. And he started to enlighten irving younger that you know what our government and are as crooked as we are. They're setting

people up and it's not even true. He says, he knows this cases. What they drugs from one case, put it in one room, the next defendant comes in. It happened to be a gangster, and they'd bring that same stash in him, and he started telling him that. And at least he claims that he believes that he inspired Irving Younger to write the Book of Evidence in the first place, you know, to determine corrupt evidence from legitimate evidence.

And he would meet with him several times after that. Well, then when he got out and he got into the theater, he invited Irving Younger to his wedding. He couldn't make it for him. By this time, Irving Younger went from a prosecuting attorney to a defense attorney to a judge. Okay, And he married him in his private chambers as a favorite to Sonny, to show his loyalty to him for everything that all the information at Sonny gave him to

help him to get to that point. And obviously, as you know, we have a copy of the Mariage certificate scanned in the book with his signats and even and see and the more and the attorneys that read the book. Okay. In fact, there was total through a source that Flee Bailey saw it was blown away. Wanted to meet my uncle, Sonny. I want to meet this guy if he was that

intimate with Irving Younger during the beginning years. And it's amazing how Sonny, I mean, he just see also in the book when he was in prison in Rikers Island, you know, Irving Younger responded to him, gave him his home and his work number. But this time he was already a professor at the University of Minnesota, and of course we had a blackout the numbers. But it's amazing when you think about it. How many gangsters, well known convicted drug dealers and gangsters do you think Irving Younger

was friends with, probably just him? And why was he meeting with him? Why was he meeting with him and asking him? Because you know what, I think Irving Younger knew more about Sonny's brother than Sonny did. I think Irving Younger already knew that Fauldy was a high ranking member and that by meeting with Sonny he would get to ask him questions about the who's who with the mob, the Genovesis of the world, because Sonny was around them because of his brother, and he was getting information about

guys just like that. In fact, Vito Genovese, Sunny claimed was set up. He was never into drugs, he was doing other things and he was one of the people that was set up and sent to prison, and he let Irving Younger know about that. So, yeah, it's kind of afmazing how he befriends somebody an icon like Irving Younger.

called the Gifa horse racing. Well, they couldn't catch him on that, okay, so but they wanted him in jail, so they used drugs that he was into, drugs to put him in jail in seatory he wasn't into. So who he was against is Hey, look, if you can't prosecute the guy for what he's really doing, don't come up with a bogus chargers to get him in jail. So he was talking to Sonny about that because he knew Sonny knew what these guys were really doing to

earn their income. And I think, so, Sonny is you know, basically that's the reason why Irving Younger would meet with him and ask him these questions. And then of course he became a defense attorney, stopped working for the state, a judge, and wrote the Book of Evidence. I mean that that makes it all kind of makes sense to what Sonny was saying right now.

And I have to tell you from this Tony Napoli interviews, which which is summing and we actually have a one hour documentary that's just about finished at an independent producer in Florida's Completing, which includes Tony Napoli, a retired deep undercover narcotics agent judge, and some other people that are being interviewed. And now, so that book took two and a half years, but we're starting to connect the dots.

So there's other books that really need to follow this book as well, and I'm not sure in what a sequence to write them, because as big as my uncle was, and with all these different people that are coming out, he's very you know, there's so much more information. I don't know where to start. So that book is just the beginning. But it's good because it tells his childhood,

it tells his family life. It now it tells about his brothers and sisters and maybe why he became who he became, and some of the benefits afforded to other family members because of this power. Yet we didn't know why we would go over there to buy your car, go here to get your jewels. We didn't know why. We just know Uncle Paul knows the people. So that book covers all of that, and that's the beginning that's really important. But it took two and a half years.

We had to revise it recently in twenty twelve because of new information we had, we wanted to make sure it was more accurate, so we just revised it for twenty twelve. But it took two and a half years, and there's more books that are going to follow that which you're going to get more into detail on what he actually did and who we actually dealt with.

allowing you to read? Okay, well it's all black and he sort it in Good Morning's Vietnam. They redacted all of it. So so you have those people that are challenging and they just don't grasp. But I have more than enough people that have come out and have their own stories about them. See, they're just they're to scruntled. And of course there's certain family members as well that don't believe it, and they just can't grasp the fact that you weren't supposed to know. I mean Roy Demeo's son.

I believe it was Albert DeMeo. He didn't know his father was a serial killer who killed over one hundred people. He was a mafia hit man. He didn't know till he got I think he was in his forties. John Gotti Jr. Did an interview on sixteen Minutes where he said he was in military school and he finds out on TV in front of he's eighteen years old, in front of all these other people, John Gotti, the boss of a Gambino family, and all the guys just kind

of tearing around and look at him. So they don't It's tough to tell someone very close to their father or whoever that might be, that yes he was, they just I would have known. So, Yeah, there are disgruntled that just not going to believe no matter what you're telling him, no matter who comes out and says what But that's just all part of it. I mean, that's just the way it is.

I've had the opportunity to sit down with dozens of old timers, one that I actually got on camera as you can see, Tony Napoli, and got the information right from them. And very few people, if any, at my age at forty four, have had that opportunity to sit and they talk to me. Because I know, I'm not going to name them unless they wanted me. I'm not going to say, hey, Joey Bats told me, as Frank Eaton, who knows told me that I don't have to. I put it in my head. I've got all this information

shure from these different people. I don't have to name who's telling me what. So I could sit down with these old timers, They'll tell me what they know about my uncle. And I'm not going to reveal who told me because I already have enough credibility by some of the people I've sat down with that I was able to show on camera that I sat down with many

of them. So my information comes from the guys that lived that, not the records that were you know, redacted and adjusted by people that don't want the truth to be known. And some critics don't get that, but you know, again, I got more credible validators and I do credible critics.

is really starting to take off. We haven't signed any deals yet, but we're dealing internationally with Russia and China about publishing the book and documentary over there, and we're really starting to gain some momentum here. And I'm taking my time because I want to make the right deal. But you're going to see this is a feature film.

You're going to see several books to follow, including probably my memoirs, my life growing up in that family, and how this you know, six year journey when we started the book in two thousand and six developed into this book in this project, my personal journey. So there's a lot to come. I mean, basically in a nutshell, Dan. I mean, we're exposing, if you want to use that word, one of the most powerful guys in organized crime history

that's never been revealed before. I mean, he's been referred to as the CEO of the Mafia for forty years now. There's a lot of conspiracy theorists out there who believe that there's really a shadow government running the show and all that, which they could be right. But there are in that same group critics that believe this can't be possible. Well, of course there were guys behind the scenes running the show. I mean, how do you think they were so successful?

So we're basically revealing al Capone for the first time. And I said that in front of an old timer, and he laughed, and he says, no, your uncle was much more powerful than al Capone. Alcohol was from Naples, he wasn't Sicilian. He was born in Brooklyn, and he wound up in Chicago because Luciano and the boy, oh look you're not going to be a boss here, hit the road, chased him to Chicago. Your uncle ran New York through to help at a Sicilian So how can you

compare him? You're revealing a bigger guy than that and that's hard for me to grasp. But the validation all honestly, Tony Napoli is the one who started this when he came out and validated who my uncle was. That created other people to come out of the woodwork and back him up because he's such a credible guy. He really started this whole ball rolling. Before that, I was getting critics because I had family members, I had other people.

So you have him and you have a judge. Then you have several other people on Facebook that are well known at Italian I'll tell you this story so clause of him being validated. Now that this story is being proven that it actually is true that this guy was able to do that, it's snowballing, like you couldn't believe this. This thing's happening daily that that's just so you follow us on Facebook and go check out the website and you'll see all the new updates that are happening on a regular basis.