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Love Radio, You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them.
Geesy Bundy Dahmer the Nightstalker VTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Good evening, This is your host Danzupaski for the program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them. My program tonight was going to be with Linda Rosenkrantz and she was going to be discussing her book Ripper. However, I got a call today from her and she had to cancel and we've rescheduled the interview for April twenty eighth, So that's in two weeks Linda rosen Krantz will be
talking about her book Ripper. I've taken this opportunity this evening because it's really hard to book anyone else, and it really is an opportune time because my book, my first book, my true crime nonfiction book, Trophy Kill, Shall We Dance?
Murder?
The Trial and Revelations of a Psychopathic Killer is released once to be released today on the fifteenth, and however, there's been a delay at the printing of the printers and it will be released However, on Friday. However, if you were to go to my website trophy Kill dot tv or the publisher's website pro Hiptick and Publishing in Toronto, you are able to advance order the book and save two or three dollars as a result of this. So you can go to trophy kill dot tv for for
the book if you'd like. And what I'm going to do tonight is talk about the book and I'm going to open the lines so that if anybody would like to call and talk about this. I have had a video out posted on YouTube again directing people to the website trophy kill dot tv for since May of two thousand and eight, for a couple of years, so we didn't in some advance promotion of this book for quite a while. Let me just introduce the story for those
people that do not know. I had done an earlier program concerning this book, but this will be a little bit different. We get people to call in and ask questions specifically about the book, things that they are interested in knowing about specifically. On July first, two thousand and three, the Miramax movie Shall We Dance starring Jennifer Lopez, Susan
Sarandon and Richard gear was being filmed in Winnipeg. The next day, Sidney Tearshuse walked into a police station, claimed that he had awoken from a drunken blackout to discover a man dead in the bathtub. He maintained he had no memory of the killing. Police discovered the victim cut into eight pieces, decapitated, disemboweled, sawn in half with all
of the internal organs missing. The dismembered and mutilated corpse was pose crudely re assembled with Susan Sarandon's gold necklace found a few feet away from.
The murder order horror spectacle.
Through a faithful turn of events, journalist Dan Sapaski has an opportunity to correspond with the killer. He gains his trust and has eventually sent a series of shocking letters and diagrams outlining every graphic and horrific detail of the order of the murder, organ removal and sex with the corpse. Contacts authorities with the evidence he has and is suddenly thrust into the trial as the prosecution star witness testifying against the killer, desperate to see him sentenced to life
in prison. Prosecutors have the burden to prove that Sidney had the necessary intent to kill. If they fail, Sidney walks the streets again discover the incredible rule that Susan Sarandon stole the necklace had in the motive for one of the most horrifying murders of all time, Trophy Killed. The Shall We Dance Murder? The Trial and Revelations of a Psychopathic Killer? And what are included are the killers revelations,
trial transcripts, and fifteen pages of shocking drawings. So what we're gonna do is go to our caller now and see what we have and see what this person is interested in knowing about this. I have to say, if I have to say myself, a very very interesting and incredible story.
Yes, caller, do you good.
Evening and welcome to the program.
Hi, my name is John. How you doing, mister Sepanski.
Oh very good? Thank you.
First off, I just want to say found out about your book from cool video I saw on YouTube a few months ago, and then I visited your website. A few questions. First of all, it must be nice, so this is a question. But first one must be nice to have a big budget, very nice video. And is there a documentary about the trial.
Well, that's a good question.
There is a planned and always was a planned accompanying documentary about the trial, about the case itself, and we just want to make it simply call it Trophy Kill as well. That documentary is still not finished, but we've taken the footage from the planned documentary and the video that you saw. Like I said at the opening of the show, we posted that on YouTube a couple of years ago and on my website as well, Trophy Guilt
dot tv. We also have in the next couple of days, as part of our promotion for the book, two more videos that are going to be posted on YouTube and all kinds of other video sharing sites that are very popular these days, and that is one of the ways that we're going to be promoting our book. So I'm really happy to hear John that you did get to see that video on YouTube and that directed you to our website.
What else would you.
Like to know about?
Wanted to know why call the book Trophy Kill and who came up with the title.
Well, the book the killer himself, Sidney Teerhuse wanted the book to be called Trophy Kill. And the reason why pick Trophy Kill wasn't necessarily because he wanted that title, but the most important reason was that it's the most appropriate title for the book. And I don't want to give everything away, but if people were to know what a trophy kill is, and I think most people do know what the definition of a trophy kill is, a
controlled kill. It usually refers, it does refer to hunters that are that pay to go somewhere and hunt game, and and and then are guaranteed that they're going to get this what they call trophy kill. Like I said, it's the most appropriate title for the book, and it just so happens that it is the title that the killer.
Actually wanted for the book itself. That's that answer to.
Actually implement that that his victim is is like a deer or something he slaughtered like a game.
Well, I don't want to, I want to. I don't want to give everything away from the book itself, but he does refer if you read the trial transcripts that are on the website itself, he does refer to the to the victim as a human trophy. So let's just keep it at that. You will you read the actual documents. What's interesting that I had the opportunity to purchase the transcripts. I was corresponding with the killer himself. So the actual documentation is one of the big features of this book.
The actual authentic documentation is included in this book.
Well, I see, I know that Susan strandon stolen jewelry was found at the crime scene. But while also title the book shall We Dance Murders? Like, what does their stolen necklace have to do with this story?
Well, the thing is, as I mentioned before, the jewelry was found at the crime scene, very close to the victim's dismembered and mutilated body, and very quickly the police determined from whatever I'm not sure for what reason, but they determined that the necklace had nothing to do with
the crime scene itself. I won't go into too much because that would be another story of what I think the reason why the police determined that this necklace and the stolen jewelry was not part of the motive for this. But in the book, as I've said, what you discovered the shocking role that Susan Sarandon's jewelry did have in this And I will just tell you that you're going to have to read the book if you really want
to find that out. It's a little too involved what it's about, but definitely Susan Sarandon's stolen jewelry is involved in the motive for this killing, despite what the police determined very very early on. And I won't go around to it too much more, but I'm telling you that there is a very good reason why the jewelry is stole, and it is a very interesting story. How the jewelry becomes involved or is involved with the directly with the motive for this killing itself interesting.
And how did you get involved with this case?
I got involved with this case a gentleman that I know was called me from a remand center awaiting some charges. And I wouldn't say whether we were close friends, but we were associates and I had met him originally in thunder Bay. We went to high school together. So this is many years later. He had moved to Winnipeg. I
had relocated to Winnipeg in nineteen ninety four. He had relocated I think a few years before, so we had bumped into each other a few times and he had visited my home and shortly after that he called me from the Reman center and said listen, I've been in some trouble. These charges are they aren't going to stick, and they didn't stick. They were charges that were eventually dropped. But the reason why he asked me to call him was because I guess that's you know, it's a lonely
time being incarcerated. I don't know, but I was good enough to at least correspond with him. A few months after our correspondence began. He'd give me a call, maybe once a week or so, and he asked me who was in his two guests, who was in the same jail range as he was. I had no idea he had mentioned the name Sidney Tierhughes. The name didn't click immediately.
The murder itself had occurred in July, and I was speaking to my friend on the telephone about his cellmate or his his now roommate here Sidney Tierhues about six months later in January. So but when he mentioned that this was the person that had cut up the person at the Royal Albert, of course I remembered I had cut out the clippings from the newspaper. I'd been doing a radio show for about three years at that time.
One of the things I was interested in was the law and some of the things I had seen that I was opposed to, and so I asked my friend if he could ask Sydney Tierhues, the killer if he'd be interested in an interview, and to go back just a little bit. As soon as the killer was arrested, he was granting interviews to the media, particularly the Winnipeg Sun in Winnipeg, and of interviews, which, as you may know or not know, it's it's kind of unusual for
somebody to do that. So I recognize this person wanted to talk, and as a result, I thought, well, maybe this would be a really good opportunity to write a book here.
And it was.
More intuition than anything else, but I decided to do that ask my friend if he could ask Sidney Tierhuse if he was interested, and of course he was. So that's that's where how I got involved with this case.
In this story, understand, this murder occurred in Canada, but it sounds like an open and shutcase, you know, And I'm sure one day he might be released on parole, but there's no way he'd be able to get paroleed before. He's a very old man, not after admitting to the bizarre killing, coming in admitting to it, and you know.
Well, the thing is, I think you're living in the US. You're not familiar with Canadian law.
We do have completely.
Difference than like this remand I didn't understand that things are a little different. But there's no way he'd be eligible for parole because this guy, you know, with all the heinous, you know, all the stuff he's done to this individual, that there's no way that he'd be out till he's an old man because he's what in his thirty so he probably you know, for at least thirty forty years.
Well, that's not the way it works, bard me. What happens is that the parole is set. There is no actual life sentences in Canada. There is no such sentence as an actual life sentence without parole, so there's no we start off with that. We obviously we don't have the death penalty, and a lot of the states in the US don't have the death penalty. Lots of states in the US aren't actually executing people even though they
have a death penalty. But the way we start is that we we do not have a sentence of life without parole we do not have.
Say, you might may have.
Heard of of Robert Picton in British Columbia, the pig farmer that is accused of killing up to upwards of forty nine women. However, he was tried for six women, and despite being sentenced for six murders, he still only is charged with one. In terms of sentencing only there's only there's only a consecutive there is no consecutive sentencing. It's called concurrent sentencing.
So we also have.
A even voluntary intoxication can result in a charge being reduced from first or second degree murder to manslaughter, even though manslaughter a life sentence is allowable in following precedent. According to what the Canadian law says, a lot of these sentences are around four years in total for something that maybe would.
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Be considered murder.
In the United States, we are having cases where it's considered manslaughter because alcohol is involved or provocation is involved. And we had just said something that was just changed by the conservative government, which is very similar to your Republican government, a more conservative government, where that government ended the two for one credit for pre trial custody time, so a person would spend say three years in custody
awaiting their trial, that would count as six years. So you can see that how you could get easily in three or four years somebody released from prison doing their full time for a charge that would in the United States and other jurisdictions in the world will be considered murder.
So there is that difference in Canadian laws. So why there was this urgency in this desperation for me and why I was personally afraid of anything other than this person being convicted a second to be murder, is that certainly if he was convicted of manslaughter, he would be out before he's forty years of age, and he would realize that I testified against him and betrayed him, and
there's much more to the story. Anybody that's capable of doing this, in my personal belief, should never be released from prison or let alone.
In a few years. There is no fixing.
And that's why the title of it. You know, I do call talk about the psychopath mind and consider this a psychopathic killer. So I'm maybe getting a little bit ahead of you some of these questions.
But yeah, I didn't know that about the Canadian law, it's quite different. But did Sidney terryu'se pay for his defense? And who was his lawyer?
Well, in Canadian law unlike again American law, and I'll continue, is that in American law, if you do not have the funds for defense counsel, then a lawyer will be appointed to you. And that lawyer that you're appointed doesn't mean you're bound to use that lawyer. But that's the way it works. You do not have your personal choice of whatever lawyer you want, maybe a lawyer in another state. It doesn't quite work that way in the United States.
Of America where in Canada. The lawyer in this particular case, to show you a really good example, has defended more killers than anybody else in the English speaking world. And he's almost that seven hundred cases, which I don't know if you that sounds like a lot of cases, but it is to put in perspective, he has the most. He has conducted the most and been involved with the most murder trials in the English speaking world, which means there's not many more people that have ever been involved
with more murder cases. Now, the government paid for this trial, and many and most murder trials are paid by the government, so it's a little different rule. And this lawyer being that experience. Again, I have a little bit of a problem with a lawyer gaining this much experience on the
public tab. And then another part of the story. Again I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, But the book does talk about what that lawyer will do in his mind, how he defines his obligations as a as a lawyer, and specifically, what I talk about is that under any type of the the foundation of the law itself or a couple of rules, and one of those rules is that the defense lawyers not to lie on his client's behalf, nor put his client up on the stand to lie to perjure himself.
You're holding out here. You got to you gotta let the counter of the bank who is this lawyer and give some famous cases he's known for. You can't keep us in suspense until the book comes out. Come on the public ones to know well.
The lawyer's name is Greg Brodsky, and Greg Brodsky is a well known Winnipeg lawyer, but operates in a couple other provinces, and his the case he's well known for is is battered Women's syndrome, and that case he's spearheaded in Canadian courts, it had been it had been decided in American courts.
I just previous to that.
I think the case that people would remember the most about him, if especially in America, would be that he was on He was on the defense for Paul Bernardo in his appeal after his murder trial. Carlo Hamlco Paul Bernardo, famous Barbie and Ken murder torture couple. Anyway, these guys were so.
Well.
I mean, I don't have any problem with a lawyer defending anyone. Someone has to defend these people, and that's the cornerstone of our judicial system. I think people get that wrong and don't misunderstand my position. It's just the extent what will Again, I don't want to get into this dry conversation.
But it is.
You know, there is a part of the book we'll talk about what his responsibilities are. What I did was I was a bit snaky, I got to admit, and I was corresponding with the Greg Brodsky's client for a year. I had all kinds of information and I was doing my radio show and I asked Greg Brosky to come on my radio program to interview him. And like he asked at the trial, he says, well, you were trying to discredit this case. What I was trying to do with the information that I had was just find out
what this whole process was. This was an incredible learning experience for me, and so what I wanted to know was how if you are not to tell a lie, and you're not to let your client tell a lie on the stand, then how do you determine the truth. Maybe I'm being really simplistic about it, but that's what I wanted to know.
Pardon me that sounds pretty straightforward to me.
But there's another title of this book, the Trial Revelations of a Psychopathic Killer. What did the killer reveal to you? And why would he do that?
I don't want to give everything away, but what he did reveal to me was the time of death, the motive, as far as I'm concerned, and I did save my bit in court about that, where the organs were, with the whereabouts of those missing organs, which I thought was very important. It also clearly refuted that he couldn't remember any details of this surgery. Basically, he revealed evidence to me that ended up being corroborating physical evidence or other
forensic pardon me, other forensic evidence at the trial. The information that he revealed to me, as the newspapers, the free press, the son, the judge, the crown, everybody admitted was the most important part of the trial.
What was it Rick hearing and reading about all those murder and dismemberment details and all that gory.
Well, I got to say, well, I got to say it was real difficult in the year because he would call me on the telephone and he would obviously sent me letters. There was some information that he might tell me on the telephone and I would say, well, you should include that in your next letter. Write that down. So he really we really did have a book project
that was going on together. He did realize we were writing a book, and the information that he told me that ended up being the evidence at the trial because I came forward. I came forward and said, this is evidence. I'm not going to hold back on this. I'm going to bring this evidence to the Crown attorney that the
prosecutor in this trial because this is evidence. I asked a couple of journalists, one journalist that I was very friendly with, and they said, you don't have to go to the prosecution with this evidence till laughter the preliminary is over. However, when I talked to a law professor from Toronto and a former Crown attorney, they said, no, no,
you should. You know, you have the moral obligation to bring this stuff forward because it is evidence, because it speaks to motive and physical evidence like the whereabouts of the organs itself.
So what was it like?
It was incredible. I got to admit, in a weird way, was exciting to be getting this kind of information because I had read these kinds of books not that these are the only kind of books I ever read, but it was communicating with a genuine psychopath. I mean, slowly but surely he revealed himself to have that kind of mindset where a psychopath will be talking about something very serious and then talk about something that real, insipid, real inconsequential.
And that's even a poor example, but it took a fair amount of time.
Before the details of the actual.
Killing came out. Before that, he gave me incredible amount of information about his background, about his life. He was adopted when he was just an infant, or put into foster home, and the people that brought that had him into foster home eventually adopted him three years later. But he was an Aboriginal Aboriginal man, a young person adopted and brought from a small community of about three hundred and fifty people where he would have been raised and where his family was.
He instead was.
Raised by a family named Tyrhuse, which is a Dutch name, and these people are not Aboriginal. And he was raised in the city, you know, eighth biggest city in Canada, Winnipeg is and he come from this little place like three hundred and fifty people, a Remote Reserve.
Ah, I was.
Just I was I'm sorry to jump to jump for the question when you mentioned earlier. Is in the back of my mind. I'm sure a lot of other listeners are are curious, what did the killer do with the victims?
Organs, Well, you're gonna have to read the book.
You're going to have to read the book. I don't want I don't want to give that away. But again, the actual documentation when it refers to what happened, is in the book, and it's very and it and it was evidence that was deemed admissible at trial, So that
information was there. Many of the letters that the letters that talk specifically about the murder, which were quite a few letters, And what the book features is rather than interspersing those letters throughout the book like many books might have because they don't have the volume of letters or for whatever reason, I've decided to put these letters all together and put a special warning on this because I
think a lot of your listeners. I did a program a little a few weeks ago with Stevens Singular who did a story abolled BTK. BTK is one of the worst criminals in terms of taunting police, taunting the victims and then reveling in his revealing of circumstances surrounding the murder and the sexual background of what he did with these victims, and some of them children. There have been other killers as well. That another one was I The Creation of a serial Killer by the late great Jack Olsen.
Basically it almost sounds like an account of the serial killer himself. He's the happy faced killer from Seattle. Used to drive truck and killed a bunch of women. And what he talked about is the sheer callousness, the callousness of his it's beyond lack of remorse, his disdain and to me, treating these women like garbage, like nothing, like objects. And I think the true crime audience that's out there has read a few of these books. There are quite
a few of these killers. However, it's not something to brag about because this is this makes it difficult for some people. The revelations of this killer are not just random. They apply to this victim and I think other and he talks about other murders as well. That this is These revelations are the most shocking revelations I have ever read.
And they're very hard.
They are very hard to read and included our fifteen shocking dragons by the Killer depicting the murder. And I won't say anymore much more than that. So and this is not and I want to stress that this is not gratuitous. This is not in there just to shock you. This is in there because this was included in the trial. It was de seemed necessary in the trial. They have
something called prejudice. If the information, the evidence is prejudicial to the jury, doesn't have any value other than just to shock the jury, it wouldn't be in there this.
You're not a trained professional or a lawyer. It just seem like an average joe journalist. But what was it like knowing you had to testify against a killer to the trial, And how does the prosecution prepare you to testify like you're not a professional or anything like?
What was that like, well, knowing that I have to testify against them? Of course, the trepidation is the word I would use. I mean, I was, I was scared. I mean, at one point the trial was supposed to go on in two thousand and six and I had a little meltdown. I remember going back home and anyway, I won't go into it, but it was like a meltdown because I was so stressed about everything. I also wanted this not to be a story that was in vain that no one would or not enough people would
know about that. I mean, I did not write this story for fame and fortune or for certainly for profit. This story is an important story to me. So anticipating testifying against this killer with everything that was a stake. You got to remember that I was being told by a fair amount of people that he was not going to be convicted of second to be murder and that and I realized.
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That I could be involved in hurting this case it and again I won't go into it. You got to read the book. There's an incredible amount of what the thing is is that how they prepared me is another part of the case. They I don't think they really did. They spoke to me a couple of times, but again I was feeling all this trepidation and fear, and the prosecutor treated me like it's hard to describe. And that's why I include the conversations verbatim in the book because it's.
Hard to describe.
Right now, when you ask me it's something that you need to read for yourself and you tell me exactly what was going on there. But I can tell you personally that maybe that's not their job. But I didn't
feel that secure before this trial. The thing that made me feel the most secure is that I had advice, really good advice from a friend of a friend who happens to be a crown attorney in thunder Bay and gave me the background on how a murder trial really works wow, and how a defense lawyer may go about trying to discredit me or trying to question me, trying
to cross examoy. So I think it just having that help that it really made me feel a little bit more confident before I went to trial About the case itself, I can just say that, but what was it.
Like to be questioned on the witness stand? What was the experience like? And would you say would be more questioned or interrogated?
Well, it's not an interrogation. I wasn't being interrogated, you know. An interrogation is what the killer would have went through. Across examination is for people that don't know. I mean, if you watch Law and Order, there are times and they do show many lawyers that will push the envelope or their sense of what's ethically allowable is different than someone else. So everybody has seen that, I think, at least on Law and Order, one of the more popular shows. The thing is is that.
What was he like?
Were they trying to discredit you on the stand, and what did it feel like like?
Well, the thing is, once I was on the stand for about forty five minutes, I thought that the defense lawyer wasn't as prepared as he as I thought he may have been. So it seemed like instead of the slickness of Law and.
Order, where it's very.
I would say, what's the word I mean, what I would say is that it feels very calculated. On TV, obviously they've written a script. In real life, there are no oppositions. The crown attorney, the prosecutor did not object to the line of questioning that the defense lawyer did. It almost seemed like I was on my own. So the first forty five minutes, of course I'm sitting on
the edge of my seat. But a combination of me realizing that this is the way it really was, and the one thing that the Crown attorney had said to me and I think this is very important and I will tell you about this, is that the crown attorney asked me specifically.
There was.
One thing that the killer had sent me in a last letter and had it said that everything he had told me previously was a lie and was fiction and it was just based on the true crime stories of John Wayne Gacy, Dennis Nielsen, which is the Jeffrey Dahmer of England, Aileen Warnos, the female serial killer in the US who killed her clients and robbed them, and Ted Bundy. Now he said he put all those stories together and
made a fictional story. And why he said that was that I had notified him that the law had just passed preventing criminals from profiting off the nor dery of their crime. He hung up on me and sent me a letter and said I didn't hear anything about it. I think they're just trying to rip me off. By the way, everything I've told you is a lie. It's
just based on serial killer stories. And at trial and before the trial, the Crown attorney the day before the trial, when I saw her one day before the trial, didn't she ask me baron me?
Didn't Sidney also say that he totally blacked out and he couldn't remember anything. But yet he gave you what do you see ten fifteen pages of grature, gratuitist violence of these acts that he drew out.
Well, of course, that's the thing I mean. I mentioned that the of course, most of the information clearly refutes that he had a blackout at all, But that's not that's not really that doesn't really describe the revelations, because that's that would be easy to say, Okay, he doesn't remember, and that's fine, and I knew, I believed in my heart of hearts that I would find that out very quickly.
Or or soon enough.
But there is no there was no real motivation for Sidney to send me the letters that he did and tell me about the things that he did, other than.
He wanted to relive, rehash, revel.
He wanted to re enjoy what he had done. He wanted somebody to know. And when you look at a you read all of these books which are about serial killers, Okay, the mindset of the psychopathic killer, the mindset of the serial killer is that these people eventually want to tell somebody more than they want to evade capture. It is their demise. However, it is a burning need after a while. When you look at the happy faced killer, he had
to contract police because somebody else. Weirdly enough, it confessed to his first murder. He went out of his pattern.
There's a pattern to all these serial killers.
Well, the thing is, like you say, Sydney was charged with one murder. However, I talk about the serial killer profile itself, and in that serial killer profile, all I'm saying is that Sidney Teerhuse fits the serial killer profile perfectly, like a carbon copy. Now, do I have any evidence? Do I have the names of the victims? And do I have their remains?
No.
At the same time, I can tell you, without giving you any detail, that I have made advances. We'll say I've made inquiries about the possibility that he has killed before. I have tried to a certain extent to investigate if there is any information about potential other murders. What I'm talking about is he fits the serial killer profile exactly, and that serial killer profile not every serial killer fits
that profile. Well, what we're talking about is not a profile to predict who we is and to determine to here's the crimes, and now I'll find them based on this profile. The profile is much better when you do it afterwards, when you use the profile to say these this killer fits all of these other serial killers. Method of operation shares signatures those unique aspects of the murder that they continue, They may accelerate a lot of the features of the serial killer. The worst of the worst
are that they want to contact the police. They taunt police, They want to taunt the victims, They want to undermine their victim try to rationalize their deaths, try to achieve their own celebrity from what they're doing, and can't believe that people think they're such a bad person. It's an incredible psychopathis in credible thing to witness when it's right there in front of you. I've had to. I witnessed
a genuine psychopath. I've accused of one of the most horrific murders ever known in the in the taunting, the posing, the reassembling of the body, so calmly walking into police and saying, hey, listen, I blacked out and I found this guy in the bathtub, not preparing the police for what they found, which I call a murder horror spectacle because even Jack the Ripper didn't take all of the organs remove them as just to gain notoriety.
That's exactly what I was just going to say, Like this for him to do this just once the first time, to cut up, to execute, and yet Jack the Ripper never even took away the organs and then where are the organs? And to do all this such a heinous crime to cut it off and then say I don't remember and then draw, you know, great detail. I understand that that Sydney took the stand in the trial.
What was it like?
And how did the killer act when when he testified, like to be so cold and like I say, the reason why I asked that question is to tie it in. How could somebody do this just once, you know, execute this so perfectly, drawings everything and then come to the police station go I blacked out, I can't remember. And then when you go in the trial, what did this person? What did the person say? What was it like? That must have been bizarre.
Well, the thing is I testified. I testified on a Monday, and he testified on a Wednesday. And on the Wednesday, his lawyer starts off by examining It's called the direct examination, where he asked me him questions the equivalent of not very hard questions. He talked about his life growing up, and of course that he talked about he well not
of course, but I guess you don't know. But he talked about being abused by his stepbrother or his adopted brother, and being also having some kind of sexual relationship with his mother.
And then he.
Talked about which of course I didn't know, and the prosecution didn't know. He was charged for exposing himself to a paperboy, two charges, so that's the only criminal charges he had. And then he went on and tried to create, you know, a story about how he had always been blacking out and when he blacked out, he would find himself somewhere else and not remember any details. And of course this blacking out phenomena started when he was really young, and so he was trying to build that up by
his lawyer asking him questions. And again, I mean, they were faced with an incredible task. Not only does he admit to the killing, they just are trying to say that alcohol, because he was impaired from alcohol, that he didn't have the intent to kill. Also, at the same time they have to defend against the letters that clearly talked about his enjoyment of the killing and how he did remember everything, and so of course they have a
very very uphill battle. So the direct examination basically starts creating some stories about what happened that day. It's a fairly involved few hour procedure. The really interesting thing is when the Crown attorney the prosecutor gets to question him, because it's very unusual American law, Canadian law, anywhere law that the defendant goes up on the stand to defend himself,
especially in a case like this. However, it seemed like he had not much to lose, and it is his prerogative to go up on the stand if he wants to, whether his lawyer disagrees, whether or not his lawyer can can disavow himself from the case or what's the word revoke or anyway, he doesn't have to participate in the case. If if Sidney Tyerhes wants to take the stand, he can take the stand.
So when linked Sydney would take this witness stand.
And why yeah, I did? I did?
Because again it's it fits the psychopathy of a killer, the psychopathic killer. It fits the serial killer profile perfectly. Of course, he's going to want to take the stand. This is the culmination of his ultimate fantasy. He wants to be famous. Of course he wants to take the stand. I predicted it. I predicted it long long before I knew he would want to take the stand. And he
did take the stand. The only thing that I was wrong is that I thought he would make I thought he would use it as his real soapbox, that he'd get out there and interrupt the court or or threaten me, or make a big speech. It was almost certain that something would happen.
The more.
The biggest outburst he did do was he called one of I don't know if he called I think he called the assistant Crown Attorney a bitch and gave her the finger. And he said to another the police officer. The resting police officers said I will not tolerate this f and lies on the stand.
Well, that's it.
So I was wrong, and that he didn't really perform.
But the thing is.
That it was subtle because the papers didn't pick up on it. Anybody that picks up the book will read this in the transcripts that are included, and his trans his testimony is included almost completely. My testimonies included almost completely why because I'm lazy. It's incredible testimony and it.
Was the key to the trial.
Was it his, well, his his his words were used to convict him. So everything he wrote to me, which coincidentally or incidentally, he wanted this material to be released.
After the trial.
He's not a stupid man.
He's an intelligent man.
But it doesn't mean he isn't foolish. It doesn't mean he isn't delusional to a certain extent, So he wanted all this information to come out. When he was on the stand, he looked more relaxed than anybody else in that courtroom. I swear to god, he looked so nonchalant when he was being questioned.
I'm just going to go back a little bit.
When he was questioned on the stand, the Crown attorney asked him this, you considered this guy just a piece of meat, And he said.
Well, I suppose.
So you don't suppose, did you? Yes, he was disposable to you. Yes, so something to that extent. I could get the quotes, but I mean, to that extent, the what he admits in his testimony.
Is incredible, and did.
The killer have any say about other murders, any hinting of maybe this wasn't the first when he did, or was this lover piece like you said, piece and beat lover thing, his his trophy, his his you know, alter his god.
Like what he talked about.
Very early on he sent me a letter about I asked him, can you send me a letter about when you're a first questioned by police? And he was first question by police. He said to me that they had asked them about other murders, similar murders, especially apparently a young man who ended up in a bathtub in similar condition to this this person, and I thought, wow, that's incredible.
I would have never heard about that. Whoever, he does talk about these other murders, and he does talk about how the cops asked him, you know, to do the right thing, and you put this guy through a lot of misery in his family.
Maybe do the right thing, think about it.
They left the room and came back and he said his mind was a blank, but they accused him of killing all these young men. As they continue to question him. Later in the book and later on in my correspondence, he sends me a letter and poses the question if he thinks I think he's a serial killer and which
serial killer he most closely resembles. So I won't go into any more of that, but I think that might pique your interest that And I do have a chapter in the book called serial Killing and an Interview with an interview with a gentleman named Robert K. Wrestler, which for anybody who's been reading true crime for any time, Robert K. Wrestler, John Douglass, these guys are the serial killer profilers. The pioneers of this profile science will say.
And how they did this is that Robert K. Wrestler and a couple of associates and John Douglas, but especially Robert K. Wrestler went and interviewed the most notorious serial killers in the world, which just happened to be in the US. Gacy, Bundy, Manson, Berkowitz, Ramirez. All of these guys, the worst of the worst, were interviewed extensively, and there is where the serial killer profiles were created.
Well, isn't it Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but another Canadian crime that picked and isn't that Once he was convicted, they found out that there's more bodies, not just a few. But then after they found out that there is more than just a couple, and I think, now aren't they still even finding bones and parts?
Well, the Picton story is a different case, and I mean the thing is with the Picton case, he was only charged for six murders. There was a good possibility of another twenty six, but the incredible cost of the trial, again taxpayers footing most of the bill, even though this guy had a fair amount of land and his half
or part landowner out there in valuable property in British Columbia. However, the incredible length of the trial and incredible cost, and again if you have a concurrence sentencing, you can imagine the length of time and the incredible cost to little
effect to have twenty six separate murder cases. In fact, the six murders right now they're still considering whether the judge may have instructed a jury improperly, and there still is some threat, there's still some threat of doing it all again, having another trial.
Wow. So what my question was the correlation with the Sydney case is Okay, you had the trial, he's been convicted, But maybe now as you go back and you start researching more that you're going to find out that this is in the first time that there is more out there that he has done well.
The thing is, it's much easier to say and speculate, and again, if he fits the serial killer profile, it's still we don't have any other bodies. So the only thing that can possibly happen is that, you know, Sydney at some point, for some reason, may admit to other murders. Realizing that the sentence he did get was twenty five years to a potential life sentence twenty five years before he's a absul eligible for parole. Now I don't know it.
Certainly there's a real good possibility he's going to be let out in twenty years. I mean, it doesn't mean he will, but there is a possibility that he'll be out in twenty years. I'm going to be at the parole hearing. I'm going to apply for intervener status. I'm
going to try to show the parole board. I'm going to try to use the pressure with the media at that time to reignite this story or to remind people of what the crime that he was convicted of and what he went on and did say in those letters which was deemed truthful by the judge these regardless of what he says about the four serial killer stories. And the Crown attorney asked me specifically, She said, is there anything to these four serial killer stories like he says?
I said no.
I said, the only thing that they have in common is that Dennis Nielsen and John Wayne Gacy and Sidney Tierhuse are bisexual or homosexual.
That's about it.
And they dismembered their victims. And she said to me, when you're asked that question on the stand, you are to say that there is some comparison between those other crimes. Otherwise, mister Greg Brosky will turn you around. Mister Zepanski, do not think you're much smarter than you are.
Now.
I didn't listen to her. And when I was asked the question, I had a whole involved thing that I was gonna say, but I just said nonsense. I said that's he asked me a couple of times. I just said, no, that's nonsense, because it is nonsense. I have those books, I've done some of those interviews. I've interviewed Sue Russell, the author of the Alien Warnos story Lethal Intent. It's ridiculous,
especially comparing that story. But even the other stories, there is nothing from those stories that could have been included or was included at all in the story that Sidney Cheerhuse gave me about this particular murder. There is nothing, you know, the appeal pardon.
All this information would make a great movie or a documentary, almost kind of like Broke Back Mountain meets Jack the Rippers. It's quite a I tell you, it's just unbelievable. And and to know that this guy could be out on thar role, you think that they would guys like this, they would take the key and throw it away, lock the door and throw away the key.
Well, that's one of the things that's very it's very simplistic. But I am not I think the Canadian judicial system has some very good, very good things that the government has changed in the last few years. We do not have the throwaway the key type mentality or the three strikes and you're out. I won't get into that too much. But the thing is that I'm I'm very concerned with
is that there is no actual life sentence. We just had a case where a person that was deemed not criminally responsible insane killed the person on a bus, decapitated them, there some cannibalism. You probably you've heard of this case. It was a Greyhound bus about a year and a half ago. Incredible case. And the psychiatrists are talking about with medication letting this person out in about five years. And of course the family, the mother of this gentleman,
Tim McLean is is outraged. She can't believe that they would talk like this. And then we have, like I say, the case of people what anyone in their right mind would call a murder. Of course, there are certain times in court where there has to be plea bargains made, deals made because of the difficulty, for various reasons, no witnesses, uncooperative witnesses. But we're talking about routine where it seems that murder is manslaughter. It becomes less and far less and far less time.
And would you.
Think because of this case an it's two aboriginal males, do you think if it was an aboriginal male and an eighteen year old white blonde girl that was decapitated all that, do you think that?
Well, I know what you're saying, of course, I know what you're saying, and I agree with you, But that is the nature.
I've asked many people this question.
Do that's the way the public acts when it's a prostitute, of course, And I hate even calling the person by referring to them by their occupation. And it's not even their occupations, their unfortunate position to be in.
Is a prostitute.
And so but yet that's who the psychopathic killer, the cowardly killer, the serial killer picks as a prostitute. This gentleman was referred to at the trial as a homeless alcoholic. I never saw any evidence to prove he was an alcoholic. I never saw any evidence to even show he was homeless.
At first.
He came from a reserve which was a couple hours away from Winnipeg, to come in for Canada Day and to visit his sister.
Do you have a legal address?
I couldn't get that information. But what I'm saying, there's no reason to depict them as a homeless alcoholic. There's no reason. There's no reason to talk about a female victim as a prostitute. Will say, because what it does it allows people to rationalize why some people are more apt to be a victim than other people. The reason why they're a victim, because they're vulnerable and they're available
and no one will miss them. Likely, This gentleman here, like you say, you make the point, well, if it would have been an eighteen year old white woman with no criminal record from a good, upstanding, high profile family, yes, you would have a completely different case. You'd have a completely different story, You'd have a completely different reaction to this victim.
This is Do you think the government would then change a law to say life imprisonment for say, such a heinous crime, if the situation, they elements were different.
I think that in light of a case like this not really getting full national news exposure, national coverage. It was on a CTV television across Canada, it was carried by the Canadian press cross Canada, but not a genuine national story. We have the Bernardo Hamalca, we have the Robert Picton, and this story seemed to not They didn't want to know about it for some reason. The thing is is that all of these cases are good examples of cases that the Canadian public should read about and
everybody should read about for just the stories themselves. They're they're fascinating stories. They are incredible killers, the unique crimes and murder, shocking, bizarre cases, interesting on every single level.
So I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah, yeah it does.
It was.
It was really nice talking to you, mister Zapanski about the Trophy Kill And the next question, where's the best way to get a hold.
Of the book.
Where is it available? How do I get it?
Well, you went to the website before, and I thank you for asking you.
Go back to Trophy Kill.
One word trophy Kill dot tv. That will refer you to the trophy Kill store, which is on the pro Hiptokon publishing website. Pro Hiptoken is spelled the p r o h y p t i k o n. So that's why I get you to go to the website trophy Kill dot tv. It's just a little bit easier. You can get the book now on advance. Order it in advance and save yourself a few bucks. It's a bit pricey, but we've got a great cover. It's a
very collectible book. It's about four hundred pages. And it's been great that you spent this time asking me these questions. I'm sure, I'm sure you didn't plan on beyond on the show all night, but I I really appreciate you showing your interest in this, John, and I want to thank you very much. I could say, go to Trophykill dot tv and you can get yourself an advanced copy of this watch for the videos again, we'll probably label the Trophy Kill again.
Why not?
Two more videos very interesting, one based on CTV news footage, and another one is particularly scary that at first will only be on the website the actual words of Sidney Chierhus and his actual drawings, but again produced by the same documentary group that did the last video. This one is just too scary to describe. I'm telling you go to the website in a few days and see that. And again, I want to thank you very much John for the call. I want you to have a good evening, good luck down.
With the book and I look forward to reading it and I'd look forward to seeing a movie or something that's tied to the book.
Well, thanks very much, John. You have a good night, eh you too, Thank you.
Bye bye bye.
Even listen to the program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them. Join me next week for Sheila Johnson with the book Bloodlust, And like I said, the interview for tonight with Linda Rosenkrantz and Ripper will be rescheduled for April twenty eighth, same time, Wednesday, eight o'clock. Have yourself a good evening,