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You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Good evening. Warning, This book contains several crime scene photos that are graphic in nature and maybe very disturbing to some people. Do not proceed if under the age of eighteen or are disturbed by scenes of death and violence. One after another, young women disappeared without a trace in the night. One by one, their brutalized bodies turned up. The macabre crime scenes suggested they share the same cruel fate. Abducted, bound and raped, All fell prey to an unknown killer.
All became the victims of a deadly deception. The book that we're featuring this evening is Deadly Deception, True story of Tampa serial killer Bobby Joe Long special guest nalists and author J. T. Hunter.
JT.
Hunter is not connected as of yet we contacted or spoke this morning, so I'm sure he is just a moment late connecting to the program. I'll just set the stage here that we were going to be talking about May thirteenth, nineteen eighty four, Mother's Day in a Hillsboro County Sheriff Department and a Lieutenant Gary Terry thirteen years on the force.
Here we go.
Welcome to the program, journalist and author JT. Hunter.
Thanks happing to be here.
Thank you very much. Yes, I just introduced it. We set the stage in Hillbury, Hillsborough County and the sheriff Department and Lieutenant Gary Terry. So tell us what call he gets and what he sets off on this incredible journey here with Bobby Joe Long. So, tell us about this first phone call and what it contains he is told on the phone that day, May thirteenth.
Okay, well, yeah, he got a call that the body of a young Oriental female then found by a couple of teenage boys in a remote area in a Tampa suburb there in Hillsboro County.
And he responded out there, you know, and of course it'd being but the timing of it it being on Mother's Day, you know, kind of got a reaction from him initially to have to respond to such a thing on a day like that. So he responded out there to the scene and you know, found the victim out there.
Now you talk about what they this woman is found in this at this crime scene here, and you describe and you include it as we've did in the warning. You include these crime scene photos. So tell us what the nature of the what they find at the crime scene in terms of her condition, and as you describe, please tell us what they find in that. As you say, it's burnt into Lieutenant Terry's memory, So tell us what he sees and witnesses.
Well, the victim, the victim was bound, her hands were bound behind her, behind her back, and she was face down. She was nude, fully fully nuge. And what had really left a really lasting impression Terry was the way that her body had been positioned. Her legs had been purposely spread wide, you know, in order to shock whoever found the body ostensively, and it certainly did shock Terry and the rest of the officers that that that were there
at the scene. Terry had said, you know, made a comment that he'd never seen a body displayed in that that way before a scene before and it really really frightened him to think, you know, who would have done this and you know, been been so evil essentially to pose a body like this, you know, let alone murdering this victim, but then to leave her body in the state,
you know, on top of it. And you know, and it was pretty gruesome too because the body had been there for a while, so there was maggots crawling around on her and flies and all that, you know, on top of it. So it was a it was a gruesome discovery. And you know, as you said, as you mentioned, there's there are some crime scene photos of them as well as the other victims in the book as well, and they are, you know, some of them are pretty pretty graphic, pretty disturbing.
Now you just talk about the newspaper coverage May fifteenth, investigators are lacking for clues in girls' death, but they do have the description five foot two and eighty eight pounds and long black hair. Then, but you say through fingerprints they a couple days later they have her as identified as and again Lana Long, twenty year old dancer at the Sly Fox Strip club in so anyway, she is originally from Los Angeles and she's just recently in Florida.
You talk about what the emmy concludes, what did he find out from the medical examiner, what's his conclusion, And then before we talk about just a couple of weeks later and the next corpse found.
Well, you said, yeah, they did determine through fingerprin analysis it was lan Along and she had Laspan seen a wife leaving her apartment complex near the University of South Florida May eleventh, so a few days earlier, and the medical examiner concluded she'd been killed by strangulation. It was pretty evident upon examination of the body that she'd been strangled to death.
Now, while police are still gathering evidence, obviously not too many leads and obviously don't have any concrete suspects whatsoever. It's May twenty seventh, nineteen eighty four, as you write, a two weeks later, another nude corpse turns up in Tampa Bay area, and again Lieutenant Terry arrives at the scene. So what's different about this crime scene and this murder in particular.
Well, there is a difference, there's similarities and differences, and the similarity of this one like the prior victim, this victim's hands i'd both been tied behind her back by a similar type of clothes line rope I was described. But in addition, there was stab wounds on this second victim to her neck so severely that her neck had her head had almost been decapitated, the slash was so deep on it. And she also had blunt trauma injuries
to her head as well. So a little more violent ending for the second victim.
Right now, you say, three weeks later, there's pass without any new bodies, and they're still working this investigation. Obviously. You talk about June twenty fourth and a man named Ronnie Barnes, he's working at an orange grove and pleasant grove. Tell us what he discovers and about our next victim.
Yeah, so this third victim, Yeah, this this Ronnie Barnes was was working an orange grove out there, another rural area around the Tampa area there, and as he was mowing in and out of the trees there, he noticed a you know, a strong odor, kind of a rotten meat kind of smell, and it got worse the closer he approached a tree, so he got off the moor. He had there to take a look at it, and
he found another body. This one was was pretty badly decomposed one virtually almost mummified, and uh, you know, obviously notified authorities as soon as he found.
That, he tuk the dcomp so advanced that she weighed an actual only twenty five pounds.
Yeah, so she had been definitely been out there for a while. Guestimated time of death or a week to two weeks earlier, So she'd been there a while. And you know, exposure to the Florida sun in the summertime certainly can take its toll.
Now, what they find out about Elizabeth Loudenback is that she's a factory worker, twenty two years old and live with her parents in North Tampa. Was last seeing June eighth. But she's not a prostitutor dancer. And you also say there's no ligatures found, but there are tell us what other things in common with the other two crimes, and are the other two crimes quickly linked and what do they and can they link? And how do they link this third murder with those two?
Yeah, so they're investigators and crime scene technicians were able to recover some red fibers at the scene for this third victim, and uh, subsequently these were matched and it was determined that they these red fibers had to come from the same source, come from the same place as fibers that were found at the line along crime scene the first victim and then the second victim as well, who was Michelle Simms. So they were they had the commonality of these red fibers at all three of these
crime scenes. So it was obvious, you know, at this point to to Gary Terry and his group there, his group of investigators that you know, these these three were certainly linked and uh, you know, they had they had a serial killing on their hands.
They talk about before they can really do anything, and we'll talk about soon they contact the FBI, but before that even happens, you say, near in another county, Pascal County line, you talk about another person has found an eighteen year old named Channel Williams. Tell us about how they find her and what if any similarities and like you said, the differences regarding this murder.
Well, like the other three, this fourth one was the body was you know in a remote area actually at the entrance of a cattle ranch, and there were similar things at the crime scene, you know, the primary one being these red fibers turning up again. You know, there was a difference in this dictum that the victim actually had a gunshot wound to her neck and head, unlike
the prior three victims. So a little bit of difference in the murders the cause of death in the four victims, but a lot of other things in common, including you know, the binding of the hands and the red fibers and these sorts of things. So certainly things linking them all together, you say.
Soon after, in September, Lieutenant Terry requests a criminal personality profile from the FBI, and Special Agent Stanley Jacobson is prepares a profile. So tell us what they look at they looked at, pardon me, and what they concluded at least for this preliminary profile to help and assist police to find the serial killer.
Yeah, the FBI profile, and folks there you mentioned special Agent Jacobson, he was kind of took the weed on it, but so he and his group they looked at, you know, the crime scene photos obviously to see the common ways the bodies had been and left and things that were found there. And they reviewed those and forensic evidets found
at the scenes. They also interviewed Garry Terry and the other pomicide detectives involved in the investigations, and they took all that information and then of course integrated it with their experience and other cases with other killers to come up with their profile of the likely likely killer. And so you know, they obviously they generated the psychological profile in the hopes of aiding Terry and his men and trying to figure out who was doing these killings.
Now again, they don't have much time to wait and to talk about October fourteenth, two weeks after Channel Williams's discovery, another woman, Karen Dinspring Dinsframe Friend, twenty eight years old, another Orange grove on the east side of in the same almost in the same area she was last seen
October fourteenth, working at the area of Nebraska and Hillsboro. Again, tell us what they found there that was common and what is the reaction from police and you, as you're right about, what is the reaction in the community in terms of panic.
Well, like the prior, Like these prior victims, Karen, Karen's body had clear evidence of having been bound. Her her hands and feet had visible literature marks as well as her neck, so she had been bound very similarly to the prior victims. And these red fibers, again, this is the big closest thing they have, I guess to a smoking gun at this point. Is these red fibers, those common element, this common thread, matching the the all the
prior killings as well. And so sure enough, you know, the subsequent analysis by the FBI labs confirms that these red fibers are all coming from the same same place. They're all originating the same the same source. So of course if they can never figure out what the source is, this will go a long way to to you know,
conclusively linking all these all these murders. And you know, as you can imagine, finding these kind of bodies pretty close in time together, these similar circumstances of the killings, UH, certainly raised alarm in the in the Tampa area around there. A lot of people started getting really nervous and and worried. You know, obviously there's somebody out there that's up, you know, up to up to evil things, and nobody really had any clue at this point who it could be, so
anybody who was a potential killer. So a lot of people were looking over their shoulders, being being careful and hoping that they weren't the next victim.
And yet it's not too long after you talk about Halloween Eve, October thirtieth, nineteen eighty four, two hundred feet from the Pasco Hillsborough County line. She's ideed many weeks later. But this is Kimberly Hops twenty two year old, last seeing October fourth, and police are frustrated. And now you could say there's a good reason for people to be afraid, because even though this is in the eighties, this is an era that's already passed where we've had some infamous people.
And you introduce somebody there's an incredible story where somebody offers their services. So tell us about what police are. You say that they're frustrated, but then somebody offers their services. Tell us who that would be?
Well, yeah, familiar, familiar name. As you mentioned, they're probably one to be the most infamous serial killer in our country.
Ted Bundy had offered his services. He had heard about the killings and went so far as to send a letter to the sheriff they're in Hillsborough County offering to help out in the case and making some suggestions including, you know, to watch the areas where the bodies have been found to see if the killer came back to relive the experience, or you know, even more ghastly maybe too, you know, to try to do something with the bodies there as well, as Bundy himself was known to have done.
So he offered that suggestion, and uh, you know, probably with not much else to go on, I'm sure the investigators were tempted to try to go down that path, but they didn't. They didn't end up ever finalizing any sort of arrangement to enlist on these help but certainly interesting possibility there.
You do say that what they do though is maybe it's not from bundy suggestion, but they say, because there's so many victims that have been seen around the Nebraska Avenue, which is the Red Light District or part of it. Anyway, he assigned a special unit to conduct knight surveillance in what you call the killer's hunting ground. And yet still no soli Elite.
Yeah, nothing to that point. They were still basically chasing a phantom at that point.
Now again, not too much long longer after this that you have November fourth and someone's a teenage girls abducted on their way home from work. Tell us about what happens here, because this person gets to tell the tale.
Yeah, this turned out to be a big break in the case. And it was early November second November second. This teenage girl, the seventeen year old girl. Her name was Lisa McVeigh. She had finished up working her night shift, her late shift the Donut Place there in Tampa, and
she was on her way home. She rode her bike to work and rode her bike back home at night, and she was peddling her bike back home from work and ended up having someone jump out from behind a parked van and knocking her off her bike and grabbing her and taking her, dragging her across the street and putting her in another parked vehicle and abducting her. And this this this man had a gun and warned her when he grabbed her not to scream or he would
blow her brains out, and she believed him. And he order her to keep her eyes closed so she couldn't see who he was, so she never saw his face, but he did force her into his car, and she was very much afraid that she was going to be killed. So she decided what she would do is just go along with whatever he said and try to, you know, try not to make him mad or anger him. And so when when he ordered her the strip, he did, she did it. And he ordered her to do sexual
things for him. She complied. And so after after getting her in the car and doing these things, he drove off with her in the car and ended up taking her back to his residence, eventually took her in there and all the while kept her either make sure her eyes were closed or blindfolded her at various times as well. And you know, they parked, parked the car and got out, and he told her that they were at an office building.
They're going to get out go inside of it. He let her out of the car through the parking lot, up through an entrance way, and up some stairs and into into a room and ended up keeping her there. And she described the the ordeal as a very kind of strange ordeal because the subductor went from kind of back and forth on his his attitude and his mood
and the way he treated her. You know, at times he was very gruff with her and very rough, and then you suddenly he could change his demeanor and be very kind and you know, very carrying almost towards her.
Yeah, you're read's fascinating because it really gets inside likely the behavior he had with every one of these women except for this reason. And you do say one of the reasons why he says later she really does have this. She really decides to have a strategy to cooperate so that she can survive. So she's talking to him. She even talks about her own family, her own father in
the conversation at some point. But you talk about how he has after he's sodomized her, basically taking her into the shower and gently washing her and then blow drying her hair and telling her she has pretty hair, and removing the blindfold for a little while. So, yeah, it's an incredible one hundred and eighty degree difference from where he starts and where he thinks he somehow had a
relationship with this woman. So she really does psychologically play into whatever she thinks he might really want and really for her own survival. She's very very clever in this regard, isn't she.
Yeah, that's exactly as you say. That's really what was pointed to later as to why she survived this encounter, whereas the prior women had not been able to. You know, she she really did. Uh, she really did keep her keep her head about her during all this, and I was able to survive it.
Yeah, there's a couple of times he kind of tests her because he goes to an ATM, he goes to a garage. And then meanwhile she uses these opportunities to look around and and remember details that will help. She believes law enforcement later to be able to apprehend this person, and it does help in aiding all the things she does. Get a peek at under this blindfold.
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Yeah, she did. She was able to get little glimpses out of the blindfold while she was in the car, and so she's able to see, you know, for example, he's he actually told her he had to stop and you know, get some money. So she was able to kind of peek out and look around and some landmarks, you know, including some signs for some businesses, some hotels
along the road and near the interstate and whatnot. And yeah, so later on after she was safe again, she was able to read investigators to these areas, to these landmarks.
And it's interesting too, because I don't know how you capture the horror that this woman is is enduring for the couple of days, because he's saying things, well, I don't really want to let you go. I just might keep you and then hugging kisses her forehead. So there's a lot of things where she doesn't she's not out of the woods till she's out of the woods and he leaves her somewhere and she then what does she do?
Yeah, she keeps, you know, placating him as best she can and going along with it and and and really trying to make this connection with him, which she seems to have done, you know, since she she did was able to survive the encounter, and and you know, he did become more gentle with her and everything. And you know, she even told him that her her father was very sick, and these sorts of things to try to garner sympathy with him. And so eventually he decided he was going
to release her. You know, he said, you know, i'd i'd like to keep you basically, but I can't, you know, and these sorts of things, and finally ended up driving her away and and and leaving her and on a corner and and you know, Tampa in the downtown Tampa area, and uh and and left her there so she was able to then make her way back home afterwards.
Now, we talked about the things that she could see, but she was really hindered by that blindfold. But a couple of really important things to help police. And you talk about the the car and the insignia that's on that car that she remembered, tell us what those two things that she did remember and it does lead police to to look for that vehicle. So tell us what she does remember and see and recount the police.
Yeah, so in addition to seeing these hotel signs and various other landmarks outside. She was able to see inside the car at times as well, and she saw the color and she's able to describe that it was this you know, dark red or maroon colored vehicle, and it had a white interior. And she also saw that this this this wording, this this strip on the dashboard that
said Magnum in silver letters. So she was able to tell the investigators about that, and that ended up proving to be the key, key point, as you indicated later on. And you know, she even was able to describe a little bit of the physical appearance of her doctor. She saw a little bit of him. She saw, you know, his his nose and ears and his general build you know, from from both touching him and then also kind of what little peaks she could get as well. So she's
able to describe him a little bit too. But but certainly the interior of the vehicle was very important.
Now you talk about just now they have a description of the men in this car, and of course they're you know that they have some dedicated officers that are going to take that that the information and do something with it in terms of looking out for that as you say, a detailed search for that vehicle and then a strategy as a result for the police. But November sixth, you talk about a couple of young girls horseback riding in Zephyr Hills and again a strange order order coming
and so they find another body. So tell us about what they find and what do detectives do next.
Yeah, so on November sixth, Yeah, there was a couple of women were out out riding, going for a ride on their horses in Zephyr Hills in the late morning and they noticed, you know, again, there was a smell they noticed, and you know, they kind of followed that and it led them to another body that very very decomposed by and pretty pre skeletonized, and you know, they obviously alerted authorities to that, and sure enough, you know, it turns out that this is another another victim of
the same same killer, still unidentified killer. He had another victim here November sixth, and they weren't able to identify that victim until quite a bit later through dental records, I think, is what it ended up being. And she had been dead for quite some time, several weeks. She explained the state of her body and while they were still trying to figure out who that was. An another victim turned out.
In the midst of this too, there was a task force set up, So tell us a little bit just about that task force being formed.
Well, because the bodies were being discovered in different jurisdictions around the area there, it was decided to form this task force with all of the affected agencies involved, and the Hillsbury County Sheriff's Office was going to take the leads and most of the most of the bodies have been from there, but there are also ones found in the Tampa Police Department's jurisdiction as well, so they were included as part of this task force as well, and
Pascoe County too, So it was a multi jurisdictional task force with Hillsboro County Sheriff's Office taken the lead with specifically with Gary Terry kind of overseeing the whole thing.
Right now, you talk about November fourteenth. November fifteenth, and again, the maroon car two door passed a couple officers, Detective Helms and tap a PD So tell us what happens when they pull over? What do they find?
Yeah, so these two detectives were driving around the you know, the strip area, kind of the red light area as you said earlier on Nebraska Avenue, keeping their eyes open, and they, sure enough, they encountered a maroon two door car passed by him in the opposite direction, and it seemed to match the description that Lisa McVay had given
about her abductor's vehicle. So they, you know, they promptly turned around and followed it and initiated a traffic stop, pulled it over, and there was, you know, the one one person was in the car driving it, and a mail who they were able to identify when he handed over his driver's license as Robert Joe Long. And you know, they kind of made up the story about why they had pulled them over, that there was some hit and run accident nearby that they were investigating and his vehicle
kind of matched something that was involved in that. It was kind of the story they gave him. So they were able to interact with him a little bit and ask him some questions and and take a look at his vehicle up close a little bit there, and you know, we're able to actually take some photographs of him and
the car as well. He wouldn't let him search the car, but he he did agree to let them take pictures of the car and himself as well, and you know, following that they ended up letting them go go his own way there after that. But this was you know, another break in the case because of the the close resemblance to what Lisa mcgay had described.
Absolutely, but as you say, the rules they use is to say they're stopping them for something, to take some photos of his car. They do notice the Magnum insignia and all the description like you say that Lisa has given them, and then they say, hey, okay, you're free to go. Thanks, and he says, listen, anytime we need this. Just jt To's stopped for a second to talk about
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Now we have.
We have Bobby Joelong not understanding that police really have a really good lead and evidence sufficient to be able to arrest him. But what do police do and what does Bobby Joelong do?
Well, soon after after the stop, he actually called the police department and kind of complained about being pulled over, and you know, said he wanted to be notified when the car was found these sorts of things. So he was certainly a little bit concerned after being pulled over there that they might be onto him a little bit.
And and the police, meanwhile, they had been SUBTENI bank records wrong the North Caampa area, trying to trying to find something that would correlate to when Lisa McVay had said that her abductor had stopped at ATM and they were able to find bank records that did seemed to match that time three nine in the morning, and that those those records actually were connected to to Bobby Joelan's
bank account. And they also detectives also were able to show a photo pack of suspects to licin the day, including the picture of Long from his traffic stop that the that they had taken when they when they pulled them over, they included out of the photopack and she identified Long out of that as well. So using those using all that evidence, the circumstantial evidence, they were able to get a warrant with both an a restaurant and also a search work for Longs vehicle, the Magnum as
well as his residents too. So they then they had surveillance going on long and they followed. The police followed him to a movie theater there in Tampa and you know, went in when he went into to see a movie there, and they had detectives stationed in the parking lot and outside the theater there and also in the actual theater as well with the movie he was seeing at the time, and they followed him out of there and arrested him after he came out of the theater and arrested him in the fucking lot.
Yeah, very interesting too. What we hadn't mentioned too, is that part of the forensic evidence that police did find that the crime scene was at least tire prints, and they identified him as a good year Viva tire and a Vogue tire usually from a Cadillac, you would say. But anyway, they impounded the car and so they got confirmation of what they had suspected as well in that regard, didn't.
Me, Yes, Yeah, that's that was another key part of the evidence that they were able to to accumulate. There was the tires and like like you mentioned this as an unusual tire, this this one type and it was a type that you could you could turn the tire of so that the white wolves were facing either even out sure knows these titles ended up matching the ones that were on Bobby Ylong's vehicle.
Now you talk about how police proceed with this Bobby Joelong, what's their strategy in terms of always trying to get them to not a lawyer up, ask for an attorney and actually give them some information makes things a lot easier. And so they go in with some sort of strategy to try to be able to elicit some sort of a confession. How do they approach Bobby Joelong and what are the results? What do they get from him?
Well, yeah, they put him in an interview room and you know, I kind of did the small talk initially and whatnot, and he was cooperative and discussing the at least of mcveigh's abduction, how he had gone about doing that, and you know, kind of why he had decided to take her and you know what he did afterwards and these sorts of things, and he was he was perfectly willing to talk about that. And from there, you know, they were hoping to get him to segue into these
these murders, but he didn't. He didn't just kind of go into it. They they started asking him kind of general questions about you know, physical evidence if he knows what that is, and you know, things like hair and blood and fingerprints and and they got even more specific to mentioning fibers and entire impressions. And when they when they started mentioning those things, you know, they noticed that
long space. His expression changed there a little bit, seemed to be a little a little worried maybe, And he started showing pictures then of some of the victims and things, and asking him if he had seen any of the victims before, and you know, he denied it. He'd never seen him, never picked up these people or seen him before. They went one by one through all the victims and
he denied all of them. But you know, after after they got through that, they took a break for a while along went to the to the bathroom, and when he came back, they picked up right back where they were and they actually told them, well, look, you know, we've we brought in a couple of these experts from Washington, d C. To help take a look at the evidence we have and things, and you know, we know your car has these particular tires on it, and the same
tire tracks that were left at several of the crime scenes. And and you know, the more they mentioned these things, you know, kind of the more concerned he seemed to look.
And he finally he said, well, it sure seems like the complexion of this case has changed since, you know, since we took this break, and he said, I think I might need an attorney, and the detectives interviewing him kind of looked at each other for a moment, but they kept going, and you know, they said, well, hey, nothing's really changed, you know, we're just we just, you know, we know you did these things. We just want to know why you did it and kind of how you
went about doing it these sorts of things. We have all the evidence already that we need, you know, to to connect you to these crimes. We just, you know,
want to hear your side of it. And so, after after confronting him with all this evidence that they had a mass that they gathered together, you know, Bobby, he sat there for a little bit kind of quietly, and then you know, lean back in his chair, took a breath, and kind of grinned at him and said, all right, I guess I guess you got me good and said, yeah, I killed them. And they asked him, well, how many
of them? And he said all of them, all the ones in the paper and so so after that, he you know, he went ahead and went through one by one the victims, detelling how he had come across them and how he had gotten them in his car and you know what he had done to them afterwards, and give him a lot of details about how he went about killing all these different women.
You also talk about, like discussed all the ruses he used to be able to lure these people, and there were slight variations, but then he would get to having a knife, and it was the things he would ask if they wanted to ride. But you also talk about
what his motivation was. They wanted to know these how he picked his victims, and so what does he say about how he picked his victims and also some of the ruses and some of the things that he disclosed to them that else actually later would put things together for them a bit better than they understood.
Well, yeah, he mentioned some of the victims why he picked them, it was it's just based on their appearance. You know, how they looked. They were kind of dressed you know, and kind of revealing clothes or looked kind of squeezy or whatnot. And and and that was the reason why he had decided on some of them, he mentioned, and uh, you know, once he he generally the way he went about it was, you know, offering them a ride.
And you know, a lot of the victims were either prostitutes or dancers and these adult establishments, these these nude bars in the Tampa area, and so a lot of it evolved pretending like he was soliciting them and kind of going along with with that to get him in the car. But not all of them were that way.
So some of the some of the ones that that weren't, he had other ways of getting them to lower their guard, you know, offering you know, help him out if it looked like that they were shouldn't be driving, for example, maybe they were drunk or something, and so he needed to help him out, and these sorts of things. So so he definitely had these different ways of deceiving them to get them to lower their guard and get them into a position where he could, you know, exert some control over them.
He also talked about other crimes, specifically rapes he had.
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Done in what he said were Miami and Fort Lauderdale and tell us how he came upon those victims. What was his m O there?
Yeah, So the other really interesting aspect of this whole cases, besides the serial killings that Bobby Joe did, he also well before that, he had a really long history, it turned out, of being a serial rapist and he was known as the classified ad rapist because what he would do is he would he would scour the classifieds looking
for things for sale. A lot of times it would be things like you know, furniture, household furniture appliances, those sorts of things, and he would you know, call the number in the listing there and from the conversation he would have on the phone, he would be able to tell whether or not it was a you know, potentially a good, good victim for him, you know, someone that he could be with their alone and rape them and
do what he wanted with them. So he was able to kind of figure that out based on the conversations he had with these people answering the phone, these women that he spoke to, and from there, you know, he would set up a time to come by, you know, pretending again and he was just there to look at this furniture or look at this house for sale. Sometimes it was you know, a for sale sign in the yard or something he saw and he would knock on the door and you know, asked to see the house.
And he did it during the time of day when you know, if there was a husband or a boyfriend or whatnot, that they would be more than likely at work. And you know, once he kind of figured out that that was indeed the situation, he would overpower the women and rape them. And you know, he described these rapes later, some of them and real detail the extent of the things he did with these these women, and sometimes you know it was it was younger girls too, you know,
young young teenagers. He was doing these things too, and he had a really long history of doing this, so left a lot of a lot of victims in his wake, not just the murder victims, but the rape victims as well.
Absolutely, he talks about later about estimating these damage destroyed about one hundred people. Now you talk about that. He also after this interview where he says he's done this maybe fifteen rapes. After his interview, he says he would like to bring authorities to the remains of the other victims that they had not discussed. But you say, overnight something changed. Who did he see and and now WA's his attitude towards helping authorities.
Yeah, he had mentioned that there were these undiscovered ones that he would lead him to. But the you know Gary Terry, who was in charge of this again, you know this, these investigators have been working really long hours on this case for a real long time, putting in overtime, so much overtime over and over again. And now that they had their had their guy finally, you know, it
was just kind of a normal reaction. I guess to relax a little bit, and you know, they were so worn down he figured, well, you know, we can continue this in the morning after we get a little bit of pressed to sleep, you know. But overnight the public defenders there in Hillsborough County learned of that he had been you know, taken in the custody and they came
and visited him and uh and talked to him. So when when Terry and his folks tried to start back up again where they left off, Bobby refused to talk to them, you know, based on discussions with the boat defenders.
So they end up with how many confirmed bodies through confession and forensics and will bodies. How many they are they looking at before we talk about, of course the ensuing motions and delays and appeals and so before we talk about that, how many do they have him dead to rights on?
Well, they have him linked to eat eat the state murders, you know, plus the abduction and the rape of Lisa McVay, you know, the seventeen year old that got away.
Now, how do police proceed I mean obviously they think obviously he's hinted and intimated it or other other victims. You talk about getting a psychological evaluation as part of the court process as well. Again you talk about and with this book your research his past. So tell us about the psychological evaluation and then before you talk about what they find out in terms of his past.
Yeah. So, you know, various medical experts had these evaluations of him and came to different opinions about what was wrong with him and why he had done the things he did. And you know, and of course all this
is lanted one way or the other. You know, the ones that are linked to the prosecution, of course, are trying to get these opinions that that that Bobby Joe, you know, although he may have had some some brain trauma and whatnot in has passed that he's still at the time he committed these things, he's still he knew
what he was doing was wrong. And you know, the the experts link to the defense, of course want wanted to be able to have these opinions that know, what his condition prevented him from from knowing that he was doing wrong and he kind to help himself and these sorts of things. So so there were different opinions that
were offered from different psychologists. You know, one went opine that Bobby Joe suffered from sexual sadism that caused his criminal behavior and his brain disorder, and that he had this this medical condition that kind of caused him to enter this kind of altered state of consciousness when he
committed these crimes. And you know, another psychologist concluded that he had bipolars kosis in an organic personality syndrome due to brain damage because they found out that Bobby Joe had a pretty extensive history of different injuries to his head as he was growing up in his background, including when he was, you know, a young boy, and as he got older, he had he had a lot of these and different reasons and including a major one when
he was older and shortly after he was married. Actually in nineteen seventy four, he had a motorcycle accent early bad motorcycle accident. His car basically or sorry, his motorcycle.
He's collided with a car when he was going about sixty five miles an hour and the collision sent him flying over the car and caused a lot of damage to his leg would also do his head, and he was unconscious, knocked unconscious and remained remained in the hospital for several months after that, and you know, the people that were close to him, including his wife, testified about how after this motorcycle accident he really seemed to change. After that. There was a lot of noted behavioral changes
to him following that. So there was quite a bit of things in his background there from a physical psychological standpoint to be considered and looking at these crimes he committed, and you know, and on top of that, they had also apart from the kind of the physical trauma, the brain trauma, hit trauma, those things. Apart from that, they also had psychological issues based on his upbringing and his
relationship with his mother. You know, it seems like the serial killers seemed to have these kind of strange relationships with their mothers times and have mummy issues going on, and it seems to certainly seems to be the case with Bobby Joe as well, based on the history there.
You talked about. Another physical thing that created humiliation for him and shame was that he developed in large breasts during puberty. He produced abnormal amounts of estrogen, so he had breast when he was a young boy, and to the point where they removed six pounds of excess tissue from his chest area. And you also talked about his relationship with his mother, but also just his attitude talking about his mother in terms of being a bitch or
a slot. So he had some Again, it seemed to carry on into his attitude towards women in general, at least as we'll see as this story develops. At the same time, it started with at least his view on m about his mother and boyfriend. So tell us a little bit about what he had said later about the relationship and his mother's behavior as well.
Yeah, so his his father had was absent from his life largely, and so it was it was him and his mother. And his mother worked in the name of it excuse me at the moment, but his mother had worked a you know kind of a bar, kind of a not a topless bar, but you know kind of a bar where the the waitresses and bartenders are a little more friendly, I guess with the customers and things. And so she worked at one of these kind of places, uh, and would end up bringing different men home all the
all the time. And Bobby came to resent this quite a bit. He felt like he is is really ship with his mom was being displaced by these all these various men that she was bringing home, and he really grew to resent her and the way that she dressed and the way she flirted with these strangers all the time and brought them home, and you know, really it really affected him and he came to resent her quite
a bit. And this was something that was pointed to later on a trial that he had, you know, projected these feelings for his mother. He had then projected them onto the woman that he was killing, his resentment and things onto them.
What we do find, too, is that that he has some normalcy in his life in terms of at least outwardly. He gets married and in January nineteen seventy four war gets married. But he also enlisted in the army in nineteen seventy two. What's his army record? Like, what does that consist?
Of his holy record? From what I recall, he I'm sure enlisted in the army. He was ultimately not honorably discharged. He was dishonorably discharged or not fulfilling his duties as he was supposed to. And you know what coincided with that was this motorcycle accident, which really changed his personality quite a bit. Was described by his wife and some other folks. So he you know, he didn't have an exemplary enlistment. He was he was dishonorably discharged.
Ultimately, he has a relationships to you talk about the he's working as an X ray technician. So there is the fullest, full investigation. They do speak to people that were around before this killing spree begins to again to get a picture of this guy's behavior and how he could have developed into the serial killer that he became. They do talk to some people just for that anecdotal story about what he was like and what he exhibited in terms of his behavior.
Yeah, they did. They talk to a lot of people that he had worked with before, and you know, they turned out that he had worked as an X ray technician at different hospitals around South Florida, including in Tampa.
And they talked to a lot of the people that he worked with at these hospitals and seemed to be that some of the calm and threads to these interviews were that, for one thing, he seemed to resent female authority for sure, and then another one was that he talked a lot about sex or trying to get with different girls or women and the things he would like to do with them sexually and things of that nature.
So those are some of the common common threads they found, and he also did some inappropriate things with some of the patients at times as well. But you know, other people he had worked with before and some supervisors had described him as being a you know, seeming like a you know, pretty decent kind of guy in some respects and being a good worker. So it wasn't all negative recollections from the the people that had known him.
Right now, meanwhile, you take us back to January eighteen, nineteen eighty five, Detective Baker gets a call from a Sergeant Price, Tampa Police Department. They had been contacted by an inmate so named Schidler. So there's some letters anyway tell us what Bobby Joe Long is up to according to this inmate, and what their response is.
Yeah, so when Bobby was being held, you know, he befriended another inmate in there, this Jay Schiler that you mentioned, and had tried to come up with the escape plan essentially is what he was plotting. And he confided in Schiler and tried to get him to get in on this and help him out with this plan he had, and what he was going to do was offer to lead detectives, including Gary Terry and you know, some of his main investigators that have been chiefly involved in the case,
to lead them to some other victims. Uh, and that hadn't been discovered yet. And you know, he knew that if he did that that you know, they would be more than willing to go out there with him. And his plan was once he got out there, he would have had somebody on the outside would have concealed a gun for him, a slot off shotgun under under a bridge at a particular location. And you know, once he got out there with the detectives, he would be able to get a hold that gun and overpower them and
kill them and get away. So he had he concocted this whole escape plan. And then you know, Schidler ended up alerting a private investigator he knew about it, and that investigator than contacted the police spotted.
Yeah, and then so they discover what's going to be what his plan is. Now you take us to as you say, Long's first Bobby Joe Long's first trial. This is April nineteen eighty five, only in Dade County and this is for the killing of. Tell us who this is for the killing of. And you you have the fiber experts Michael Malone and prosecutor is Phil Van Allen. So tell us what this first, what this murder trial is for?
All right? So, yeah, the first trial was out there in Deep City. You said this was for Virginia Johnson, right, which was actually she was actually one of the later victims found, one of the last ones that was that was found. But her trial ended up being the first
one to go there in Dade City. And it, uh, it didn't take long for the verdict to come in once the once the trial started, it was just just a week before the jury came to their verdict and the delierations weren't long either, not even an hour to find him guilty of Johnson's murder.
And Florida's death penalty states. So what was that? Was it a death penalty case?
Yes, so so he was. He was found guilty of first deary murder, uh, unanimously, first degree murder. And so subsequent to that, the judge you know, follows all the jury's recommendation and in sentence along to death. So that was his first first death sentence was for the murder of Johnson, and.
Then he proceeds to not long after July twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six, he gets a death sentence in the Michelle Simms case.
Right, yeah, In in July eighty six is when he gets for death penalty in the Michelle Sims case, and in you know, in the meantime, there was a deal that was broken and I agreed to for the you know, the other cases that he was involved in. So what ultimately ended up happening was that he pled guilty to eight of the killings and then also to the abduction and rape of Lisa McVeigh, pursuing it to this plea agreement.
And the reason why he wanted to do the plea agreement was to avoid the death penalty as much as possible. I want to get a death penalty in all these cases. The more death penalties you get, harder it is to get them all reversed, among other things. So he entered in this agreement to get my sentences instead on these on these killings. So he got ended up being twenty six white sentences amounting to pursuing to the agreement for these other all these other murders.
Right, you talk about the same time that the cb CBS television, they have a report on serial killers, and they interview him and he recounts many of the murders he committed. Tell us what he says, the gist of what he says in terms of trying to rationalize or comprehend what he did the crimes he did.
Well. So, you know, one of the interesting things he mentioned in that interview was the way he described it. It wasn't he didn't describe it as something he planned typically. It was more a spontaneous thing that just kind of occurred. And he described as like this urge that just kind
of built up until he kind of resistant anymore. So he might just be going out to do something else, to go to the grocery store, to go play racquetball, he liked to play racketball, something like that, and he might come across some girl and you know, he would get the urge and he wouldn't be able to resist it. So that's the way he described it to this the
CBS interview. And you know, he went on to talk about the way he went about these these killings, these rapes and killings and always kind of followed the same sort of pattern, he said. He said he'd see him walking down the street and then it would be like ABCD.
He would pull him over, they'd get in, he'd drive away, and then stop somewhere, pull out the NYE or his gun whatever he happened to have at the time, and tie him up, you know, so he could have a complete control over him, and then he would assault him and kill him after that, and kind of always followed the same sort of pattern over and over again, you know, including the deception to get him in the car initially and then going from there.
He also talked about in that interview that he that these maybe said maybe a couple two people had families that gave a damn about them, but the rest of them were just he said, sluts out on the street. And he said that he picked you know, he said some of these people wouldn't be missed. And then he talked about Lisa McVeigh being an anomaly from his normal victim profile. Tell us about that and why that likely was quite true and really did aid in her survival.
Yeah, Well, unlike a lot of his victims, Lisa wasn't She wasn't a prostitute, She wasn't someone working at these nude bars or these clubs. She wasn't someone involved in that whole Nebraska Avenue street scene. So to Bobby Joe, you know, she was in a different category. He didn't associate her with these kind of sluts or whatnot and
people that wouldn't be missed. She was. She was different, so that, you know, I'm sure that helped her in of itself and enabled her to kind of take on this almost this girlfriend kind of role that she took on with him during the abduction, which you know, allowed her to ultimately to survive it. So he certainly, he certainly brought that up and you know, mentioned that as a reason why he decided to let her go. Is that she wasn't like the other one. She was different.
Yeah, now she gets to eventually you talk about the trials and then many of the motions and reasons for appeal. Maybe you can briefly summarize some of that until we get to November twenty, November two, nineteen eighty eight, where Lisa McVeigh testifies and we get the entire story of the jury, gets the entire story in the world, gets
the entire story at that testimony. But what are some of the basic issues that keep cropping up to have we get to the point where there's trials for the Virginia Johnson case, in the Virginia John's in case.
Yeah, so one of the big issues for these appeals was the interview when Long confessed to the killings of all these women and the fact that before he did that he had mentioned that, you know, I think I need an attorney or maybe I should have an attorney, and the fact that you know, the the interrogators at that point didn't just immediately stop questioning. They kept pressing
forward with it. And so that was a big issue, you know, this violation of his rights in that respect, and so he was able to get get a lot of traction with the courts with that as an appellate issue. And then you know, another ship that came up is whether he had sufficient representation by his counsel. So that was another thing that he used in the appeals in order to get you know, convictions overturned and get retrials and you know, end up having you know, several trials
for the same the same murder. You know, as you mentioned the Virginia Johnson case and you know, those are those are detailed more in the in the in the book itself.
Yeah, you talk about too that it's a conviction in the Michelle Simms case was one that they had pursued because of just more evidence that pointed to him. So they they do go with a stronger case obviously, and and plea bargain some other ones might that they might have some difficulty with in the end. How many years did it take to get to the point where he was finally convicted and given the death penalty? And and also can you tell us a little bit about Lisa
mcveigh's testimony what it did for her? And you talk about PostScript about Lisa McVay as well, So tell us a little bit about Lisa mcvay's testimony, and then how long it takes from the murder itself in the eighty four to some resolution I guess finally in this.
Case, Well, Lisa testified in eighty eight and she talked, you know, obviously she told the facts about getting abducted and things, and she was asked about why she hadn't tried to get away from him at various times, and she explained that she didn't want to put him off basically, you know, she didn't want to anger him or provoke him anyway, So she said, you just wanted to cooperate, and you know, hoping that that would give her the
best chance of surviving. And she was asked, you know, about how he had acted at various time times during the abduction. And you know, she was asked if he seemed like a sick person, like a wacko, and she said yes, and that he had one time told her that he didn't know why he was doing it, why he was doing the things he was doing to doing to her. Maybe he was going nuts, and and she admitted that as well. And you know, the big reason why she wanted to testify too was to prevent him
from being able to do this to anybody else. That was a big motivating factor for her. So she she did testify, and you know, following the various trials and appeals and retrials, he it was ultimately finally the death sentence was upheld. And this is the early nineties ninety two at Florida Supreme Court upheld his descendants in the Sims case and in the Johnson case that was ultimately
upheld as well. I guess it would have been later on in the nineties, trying to remember the exact day, but it was, you know, it was well after the murders, so it was it was years and years in the long long process before he was finally affirmed for these killings. I guess it was about two decades or two decades before he was actually finally once and for all convicted of the of the murders in twenty fourteen and stretching
all the way into twenty sixteen. You know, very recently the appeals and whether the trial court had had acted properly in doing the things that it had, you know, it allowed in and evidence and things, so very long drawn out legal process as these death penalty cases seem to involve, but this one, you know, more than more than a lot of others, certainly. Yeah, and also so you know today Bobby Joe, you know, he hasn't had
his execution date yet. He's still he's still alive. He's still on death row in Florida.
You talk about that as well, But first let's talk about somebody like me, Lisa McVeigh. What did this whole experience motivate her to do in terms of her career path.
Well, she actually end it up becoming a deputy sheriff with the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. So the very agency that helped her and you know, brought her abductor to justice,
I'll bring her abductor to justice. She ended up going to work for that agency, and a lot of her work has been with as a as an advocate for children abused children, and she's you know, she she's taken it to use this really dark time from her life and this very negative experience, and and and because by using it as as a motivation other victims and you know, try to try to bring some light out of out of the darkness that she experienced.
Now we go to the Union Correctional Center in Rayford Floor and you talk about that Bobby Geelong has got a lot of women pen pals, as you write in the book. Tell us a little bit about what this Litharia was doing in there. And before we talk about this very very cryptic thing that was said by again one of the most infamous infamous serial killers of all while he and Long shared a sell or at least shared an institution, tell us a little bit about what Bobby Geelong is up to while behind bars.
Well, his appetite for these women certainly didn't seem to diminish because he's you know, while he's been in there, he reached out to women different ways that he could, and including having things posted on the internet. You know, this this this man who was the classified ad rapist ended up posting his own classified ads essentially on the internet. And you know that the things he posted are included
in the book. But essentially he's you know, soliciting women at all different ages for sexual interests that he has. And you know, women have responded to this, and as you said, he's certainly had a lot of pin piles, a lot of women female pin piles during his time there. So it's you know, it seems it seems really hard to imagine that women, knowing what he has done, would would want to correspond and communicate with him about these
kind of things. But they do. Yeah, and he's been you know, definitely interesting and having those kind of correspondent relationships, sexual relationships, so to speak. So those have been ongoing.
Now you talk about before Ted Bundy's execution January eighty nine, he befriended long while they were doing time together in Florida. What did Buddy Bundy tell an FBI agent about Long?
Yeah, So, based on whatever conversations Bundy had with Long, certainly made an impression on Bundy, because he did mention to an agent that had assisted the task force there when they were investigating all these murders. Bundy, you mentioned to that FBI agent he said, he said, you know, it's a good thing you got them when you get
when you did. It's lucky you got him when you did, because otherwise his numbers would have surpassed mind, you know, obviously referring to his murder victims, and Bundy had quite a few himself, So for him to say something like that certainly tends to give you a little bit of a pause. Yeah.
You know, the thing is is when you can impress a guy like Ted Bundy, which again has had impressed everybody in law enforcement and the world with his ghastly crimes. When Ted Bundy did reach out to law enforcement another time as well, at least, but it seems quite telling that he seems to be quite impressed with the potential of Bobby Joe A Lung.
Yeah, and you know, that's actually something that Gary Terry remarks about too, that if they hadn't got Bobby Joe when they did, if you know, if he hadn't made this this error in letting Lisa McVeigh go, you know, if they hang out that lucky break and were able to catch him through that, you know, Gary Terry remarked that, you know, there's there's no teal on what his victim count would have been. He would have just kept doing it because you know, he certainly didn't feel any kind
of remorse for what he had done. He never really expressed any true remorse for the for the killings and things, so he just would have kept doing it. You know, the number would have just kept going up, so very much in line what what Bundy had mentioned as well.
What was his behavior like at trial, because again it seemed to be that there was a couple of things going on or at different times, So tell us what behavior he exhibited during that trial.
H Well, you know, at various times during the trial long could behavior could change from from just kind of being some one and sitting there to having you know, outbursts, and you know, there were some occasions where he really exploded and made threats toward the prosecutor or or whoever, and and really showed this kind of checkle and hide
sort of personality going on there. So you know, he he you could you could certainly see from that how he could deceive these women and you know, fool them into thinking he's this nice, gentle kind of guy, and then of course he has this hidden monster inside that that that that's unleashed later on, just as as as they saw at different times in his courtroom.
Debet, Yeah, absolutely, Now there when you talk about I would think that Florida where I thought Florida would have a quicker route to the death penalty to execution. Why is it just because he's just finally got through with the twenty two years all of the appeals and motions that he could possibly have have exercised as his rights. Is it now that there is some weight for a date execution date for him or what is the climate in Florida right now regarding the death penalty?
Well there, you know, fairly recently in Florida there there was a lot of challenges to the death penalty and the statute and how the death penalty could be imposed, and it was it turned out that it was it was deemed to be improper for unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, so the Florida legislature had to go back and rewrite the statutes for this and how a criminal defendant can be given the death penalty, how the definiteity can be imposed. So all that took a while to get sorted out.
It finally has been, but it certainly affected how pending death penalty cases were being handled, how they were whether they were moving forward or not, because you know, there were a lot of challenges being made by the all the people on death row, and that certainly disrupted things. But it's it's also it's also taken traditionally, it's taken a while even before that. You know, a lot of these death row inmates spend many many years on there,
some of them for decades. I don't remember off the top of my head what the average death row inmate stay is before they're actually executed in Florida. But it's pretty lengthy. I mean, it's it's a pretty lengthy process. So certainly Bobby Joe Long has been on there longer than a lot of them have. And the explanation for that is I'm really not sure why his case has
been there for so long. I mean, he certainly had these appeals drag on for a long time, but he still hasn't had a death weren't signed yet for him. He doesn't have a have an execution date set, so you know the question of when that would occur, it's you know, you really, your guests is about as good as mine as far as that goes, really just kind of depends on when the the governor decides that it's it's time.
Do you think in your opinion from everything you've seen, because you cover murder trials in Florida and so you've seen a lot of what goes on, do you think with all the natural opponents to the death penalty on one side, and then all the motions and appeals and extra care and caution that's afforded somebody that's been given the death penalty in Florida, do you think it's worth it In terms of this twenty two years, we would talk about nineteen ninety seven where they reversed the first
degree murder. They've reversed a first degree murder conviction after Lisa mcveigh's testimony. You know that was not sufficient for first degree, So that was an acquittal, you know, twenty two years. Is there is maybe the the attempt to have the death penalty just delay everything. Is it really worth it in your estimation in terms of overall.
Man that that is such a such a loaded question, so to speak. You know, it's it's you know, there's there's good arguments on both sides, really, but it certainly seems like that the victims or the families of the victims shouldn't have to be shouldn't have to wait that
long for justice. You know, you see examples where these family families wait for so long that some of the family members die while these death row inmates are still alive, still living there, you know, waiting for their execution date. So it seems like there's something wrong with it in that respect. You know, certainly, you know, we have to protect the rights of individuals in this country, make sure they have a fair trial and that we're not executing
innocent people. But on the other hand, it's such a huge use of resources over the years battling these things, and you know, that's so that's one of the arguments, of course, is is it better just to give them all life sentences? And you know, because it's ultimately cheaper that way. And really, I mean it's such a it
just boils down to people's opinions a lot. I think, you know, some of the you know, some of the victims' families think it's better for one of these defendants to rot in jail so to speak, you know, live the rest of their years in the small cell. But others want to see an eye for an eye kind of justice, you know, and see them actually pay the ultimate price and be put to death.
Yeah. And whether I believe in the death penalty, which I don't believe in it philosophically for other reasons, but I certainly do understand. I think I can understand how I would be asking for it, demanding it for it in these cases having endured again, I think part of it,
as you mentioned, is just takes so long. I think having to have retrials can only make the victims' families believe that there's something wrong with the judicial system, and not to say pro or con, just to say there's something wrong with the delay of justice.
Yeah, I mean, I think all of this in a sense, I'd like to see it kind of move forward a lot quicker and just be a judge jury execution or bam bam bam kind of process. But you know, on the other hand, it is important to make sure that that things are being done properly, in the police are putting these cases together properly, that the evidence is being properly found and and put forth, in that prosecutors are
doing their jobs properly as well. So you know, there there are instances of abuse, you know, both in both in in law enforcement and also in prosecutors prosecuting the crimes after the perpetrators are caught, So it is important to have that as well. But certainly in our gut, it certainly is a lot of times there's this this wish or desire that things could be expedited so much quicker than they are.
Yeah, certainly just for the just, for the for the survivors and the victims' families, and yeah, I my my heart it goes out to those people, certainly every time I read these stories. I want to thank you very much JT. Hunter for coming on and talking about Deadly Deception true story of Tampa serial killer Bobby Joe Long. It's been a pleasure as always, Thank you very much.
JT.
Hope to talk to you again real soon, thank you very much.
Thanks again. It's as always it's great to come on here and talk about these things with you, and you know, it's too bad the subject matter is as grim it is as it is, but the discussions are always very interesting and engaging, So thanks again for having me on.
Thank you very much. We have a great night, good night, thank you.