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You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Good evening, This is your host Dan Zuhanski for the program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have written about them. David Mahler, a forty three year old East Coast lawyer, came to Holly for the celebrity lifestyle, the movie industry, and the women.
At his seven level home in the Hollywood Hills, Maler rubbed elbows with the ceed elements of the entertainment world, wannabe rock stars, drug kingpins, and adult film stars, one of whom introduced him to Kristin Baldwin, a pretty upbeat blonde. One night, during a violent argument in his bedroom, a vicious, drug crazed Maler grabbed a gun, A shot rang out,
and Kris Kristen was never seen alive again. The book we're featuring this evening is Date with the Devil with my special guest, journalist and best selling author Don Lassiter. Welcome back to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Don Lassiter.
Thanks Dan, it's great to be here again.
Well, thank you very much. This is one wild tale, as we were talking about beforehand. Now set the stage for us a little bit. We should really paint a picture of the king characters here, because there aren't that many characters in this story, but they are very, very important and very interesting characters. Let's maybe start with Kristin Baldwin.
Kristin Franri Frenna Baldwin. Tell us a little bit, she's from New York originally, but tell us everything that you found out about who Kristin Baldwin was and her early life leading up to this faithful day.
Well, Kristin, as you said, was born in New York and her parents were somewhat of no maddice at first, and they split up. Eventually. Her mother remarried a man who in the electronics industry, and he moved them to California to a very upscale San Fernando Valley section called Westlake Village. Beautiful home, rich environment, movie stars, upscale people live there. Kristen grew up in that environment and in
an upper middle class lifestyle. Eventually she left home, moved to a coastal community and went to some college, and then she found that she was attracted to Hawaii. She went over to Hawaii and spent ten years over there, surfing and working as a waitress. Very happy life. But eventually she came back and she was a little difficulty in finding some roots. And that's what happened when she met David Maller.
Now she was how old by the time she had met David Maler though when she was.
Saying early forties, I believe about forty forty one at the time.
Right now, tell us about David Maler. Tell us everything he found out about David Maller. His early life up to him becoming a civil attorney. Seems successful if he's living in Hollywood Hills. But tell us about the early life of David Maler. Please.
It's interesting Dan that in my book I said his childhood was somewhat uneventful. He did. I knew he had some drug problems. He confessed that during the investigation. But I'm going to fill in a little something that happened just a few days ago here. I received an email from someone who is very close to David in his childhood, knew him quite well, and who said that you didn't tell half the story of David. He was far more
evil than you even realized. And this person told me a considerable amount of about David, his fights with his own father, his hitting his grandfather with a baseball bat, is getting out kicked out of several schools, and his drug usage. So that establishes a little bit more of his background than I was able to tell in the book. He went to law school, he earned he passed the bar examine both New York and New Jersey, and was
practicing there for several years. At one point he was living with a young woman who was from also from California. He met her during a trip out here and they fell in love, and she went back there and lived with him over a year or so. They continued their relationship for quite some time, even after he came back. That he moved to California. But it's a little questionable why he moved to California. Some people think it was just to come out here and live in the lifestyle.
Others think he had some problems with some of his clients in New Jersey. It was even suggested that there was some let's see criminal aspects to some of his people that he didn't want to be around anymore. So he decided to pull up his all of his roots and move to California.
Now was he a successful attorney? Was he would he handle high profile civil cases? What was his career like once he did get to Hollywood.
Well, he was quite successful in the East Coast, but he could not pass the bar exam in California. So when he moved to the Hollywood Hills, he was a commodities trader. I put that in quote marks.
Now it seems glamorous. He's living in a big, you know, plush, plush home in Hollywood Hills, but he's sharing the rent with a lot of co tenants. So maybe you can introduce us to some of those co tenants. And so please start with one of the most important roommates, Donald, and you can pronounce the last name, so I do not get it wrong when.
I Donald van de Velde was a professional musician or a rock star, Well, his goal was to be a rock star. I should say he had. He had had certain levels of success prior to this episode and had issued some some CDs. But at the time he was living with David Maller in the seven level house in Hollywood Hills. He was having pretty rocky time. I understand since then the Donald has re emerged and is doing
quite well in the music business. At that time, he was pretty much living as a handyman, and so he was one of the tenets of the big house that David Maller took uh. He became the least holder and manager on the house prior to his arrival, a man named Karl Norvig And that's that's a an assumed name. Several people, or I should say a pseudonym. Several people
in this book have pseudonyms to protect their privacy. Carl had been the manager of the place and lived in the upper stories before David's arrival, but David took over, so Karl Norvick moved down a couple of floors, and then a third person, Jeremy Moody, lived in the floors below that, and then Don Vandervelde and his wife lived on the bottom floors.
Now there was another roommate Johann Langley as well lived.
We're not going to talk about Johann Langley.
Okay, I understand, got it? Okay, Now, now what was the relationship? You say that they were tenants, but how did they all come to live in this home? Were they friends by any route? Or tell us how they all came to live in this in this place.
No, Actually, the man we're calling Karl Norvik, had been operating, had been a leaseholder and manager, and he had least he hadn't rented I should say, space to Donald Vandevelde and to Jeremy Moody, and then when Maller showed up, he took over. And so then those three men then were his tenants in the house. They weren't necessarily close friends at all, although Norvic and Mahler became quite close friends, but that turned out to be somewhat of a disaster for Norvic.
Now, right from the outset was this party central this home? And if we're talking about drug use, we're talking about having some parties, but we're talking about drug use specifically what drugs were used.
Maller had a habit he brought with him. He liked meth, he liked cocaine, and those were his two primary drugs, but he was also quite hooked on booze on mostly.
Vodka, so was whatever whatever could get you through the night. And he was a serious drug user. Anyway, we're going to try to establish he was indeed. Yes, Now, just previous to May twenty seventh, two and seven, David Maler met with a business associate on May twenty third in Newport Beach. Maybe you can tell us what happened with this meeting and tell us about this meeting.
Well, just a week before that meeting, Maler had met Kristin Baldwin. Let me just give you a little background how he met. When Maler came out to California, he was acting as a commodities trader, but he also wanted to get into some other industries and he was very interested in strippers and the porn industry, and he managed to make some contacts in that area. A rather well
known porn actor at the time named Michael Coniuccente. His his performing name was Damian Michaels had met Maller and he somehow introduced him to Kristin Baldwin because Connoscenti had met her. I think in a restaurant, just in chatting up, and then they started dating a little bit. I don't know that Christen even knew that Michael Connocenti was a porn actor, but he introduced Kristin to Maller. They started dating.
One weekend, Maller told Kristin, I have some business in Newport Beach and I would like to take you down there with me, and she had readily agreed. He had a brand new Jaguar and nice clothing and was spending quite a bit of money, and so she said sure,
so she went along. The two of them went down there and they had a business meeting with one of the Maler's clients, and they were seen by the video cameras, the security cameras going into a very plush hotel down there, and that night there were some arguments in their room, and Maller in anger drove away and just deserted Kristin into the hotel. The next day she had to find
some way back. Most people assumed that she took a taxi all the way from Newport Beach back to the San Fernando Valley, which would be at least a one hundred dollars taxi ride, right and then the next day then she called Maler and said she wanted her money back and she was going up to the house in the Hollywood Hills to see him.
Okay, now, so what happened when she did get there? And at least and where was it? Was Donald at their president at that time.
He was Kristin and Kristin and Maller. We were having a terrible argument about, probably about the money. No one knows, certainly they were arguing about. At one point, Mahler telephoned Donnie van de Velda in his bottom floor apartment and said, come on up here, I need your help. Van de Velda raced up some exterior stairs and went in and there was Kristin sitting on the floor crying where some wearing some flimsy shorts and a haltertop, crying and begging
to leave. Maler is walking around wearing a white terry cloth robe taken from the Marriotte Hochel because they still has the label on it, and he's yelling and screaming and carrying on like a crazy man, according to Van Develda, And pretty soon he goes into close and comes out with a revolver. He puts one bullet into the chamber and spins it and starts clicking it at Kristin and
at Donnie. Donnie said, the heck with this man, and he stepped out, and as he slammed the door closed, he heard the gun go off.
So what did he do right after that?
Well, Donnie raced down his apartment, just in fear and terror. He was just stunned and he didn't know whether she'd been hit or not. A few minutes later, he gets another call from Maller, come on up, I need your help. He goes out and he looks in and he sees her, her hand extending out from under a blanket. She's on the floor covered and she's quite still. Donnie is terrified. He's just struck dumb, and he says, I'm not helping you,
and he left. A few minutes later, Karl Norvick was also summoned up to there, and he saw the body as well, and he was he was just shaking it. It's just just almost hysterical. He was so upset. He also refused to help mall Within said, well, I'll get someone else to help me get rid of this body.
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But what he really did is go get in these Jaguar and drive to a hotel out near Lax where he met one of the most colorful characters in the whole book, a man we called Atticus Kings. Atticus is as a person who has procured hookers for Maler for months and months and brings them up to the mansion in his little van. And so Atticus met Maler. Now with a dead body of a young woman lying in that house. Maller and Atticus are partying at the hotel.
He goes out and finds a hooker. They come in and they party all night long drinking and destroy a three thousand dollars television set and just have a great time. Just a stunning sequence of events considering that he had just killed a young woman.
Now what does he talk about with Atticus Keene? What is he? What is he? Does he mention anything about Kristin?
And all he does? He mentioned that there's a body he needs to get rid of, and Atticus says, man, I don't want anything to do with that. I'm not doing that. So one more of his Francis turned him down. He also made several phone calls to other men and they all turned him down.
How many more people did he call asking for help in disposal.
Well, no one knows for certain. We know that he called Michael Conocente for one, and Michael didn't wantnything to do with it, and probably one or two others. Finally, about the third day after he killed her, about midnight, his Jaguar is photographed by a security camera next door to the house in the Hills, and he pulls out and then backs into his garage and then pulls out again and is gone for several hours, just long enough.
It was later determined too that he could have driven out to Barstow way out in the desert, over one hundred miles and back, and that's where two weeks later, Kristin Bowen's body was discovered.
Okay, now tell us about the discovery of the body, and then I'm gain a little bit of the sequence of events. A little confused here, But is Kristin reported missing immediately? And if not, why not tell us what happened right after in terms of anyone realizing that she was in danger or missing. Tell us about that.
Well, because Kristin had moved around to several various apartments and several jobs in the in the months prior to the murder. I shouldn't say murder because there was never a murder conviction. Next. Prior to the killing, she didn't have regular contact with a lot of people. She had a sister who lived in the area and they often talked by phone or by texting. And the sister hadn't heard from Kristin for nearly two weeks and she was
getting a little nervous. But no, there was no no missing, no missing person's report, no indication or any crime at all. Until about two weeks after the killing. A woman was driving out in the desert. She crossed over this low bridge over a wash way out in the middle of nowhere, and a car came around a curve from the opposite direction nearly had a head on crash, but the young woman driving her pickup pulled over to the side of the road in time to avoid the crash. But she
was stuck in the shoulder and she was frightened. We're out in the middle of this one hundred and five degree desert in the middle of the day, and she had no water and her cell phone wouldn't work. So she's sitting there, doesn't know what to do, and a couple of marines pull up behind her and offer to
help her. They can't get her car unstuck, so they stepped down into that wash to get some rocks or sticks or something to put under her tires, and one of them spots the glint of a golden wristwatch sticking out from under the low bridge. He walks over and he finds a dead body, a desiccated, mummified He couldn't even tell the sex of the body, but they called the detective and now there's a homicide to be investigated.
Now you talked about decomposed and this is important how you've described it. But how decomposed is this in terms of as far as the police are concerned or forensics are concerned.
Well, the flesh is almost completely desiccated and dried and black. The clothing is almost in shreds. The face is just virtually a skull covered by black leather. But amazingly, when they took the body into the morgue for autopsy, through a new process, they were able to put some some material on her fingertips and draw draw up fingerprints, and that was that led to the identification of the body as Kristin Baldwin.
They could tell through autopsy as well, maybe not the complete story, but they at least knew how she was killed, or at least tell us about that.
What they did determine, well, Dan that wasn't even certain. There was some question later about one autopsy report said there was a hole in the chest, another said there was a hole in her head, and neither one were as absolutely conclusive as to what the cause of death was. But circumstantially it was later indicated that she was probably shot, either in the chest or the head.
Now, the other thing for all those CSI bots out there and everybody talking about DNA in the last twenty years. This body, this corpse, did not provide a DNA sample.
Know, there was no DNA available at all on her, and I'm not certain why. I've talked about that with several experts, and there may have just been failure to do the process correctly, because as you may know, the mumbified body of King Tut produced DNA. So it's mysterious why there was no DNA in this case. But there wasn't Perhaps it wasn't even necessary when they were able to identify her through fingerprints right right.
And then later we'll talk about how they got around this DNA quite easily, and of course that's just a nature of DNA. Now, so what do the police know on June first? Tell us what happens on June first, and in terms of the police and what the police are toold.
Well, Karl Norvik, who was one of the two who saw the body, worried about it for but two or three nights. He was just in agony. What shall I do? What shall I do? He was afraid of Marler because Marler was an extremely controlling and at times violent person, and he seemed to have a great deal of power he exerted over clients, friends, people, who was a powerful man,
and Norwick was scared for his own life. It also would turn out later that Mahler had kind of pulled some shenanigans on Norwick, costing him a great deal of money. And Norwick's own mother had trusted Mahler to invest the money that cost her her home and her car later, so there were some stress. There was some stress between the two men. Norwick left the premises after he saw
the body and went to another county. But finally, three nights later he decided I need to report this, and he called the police, and that said in motion, detectives going up to the house in the Hollywood Hills. But remember, now there's no body, there's no report of a missing person. There's nothing except this man calling and saying that he saw a woman who'd apparently been shot in Maller's bedroom.
Now police able to get a warrant, and if they were, what did they find at the home.
The police came out and about midnight after Narvik's called and three of the finest detectives I've ever met in my twenty years of writing, Detective Wendy Burnt, who was the supervisor. Detective Vicky Bynham was one of the two assigned the investigators, and Detective Tom Small. I just can't say enough about how terrific these three were in doing
this case. But Wendy Burnt dispatched some night watch people out there first to the house, and they didn't have a warrant, but they did knock and the resident renter, Jeremy Moody, allowed them to come in. And as two or three uniformed officers went in, one of them glanced to a doorway to the left from the entry which led to a garage, and he spotted spots of blood on the floor of the garage. That led to a warrant. Then where they could search the place.
Now, once they had that warrant and probable cause, what evidence, if any, was found in the house? I mean, do you think, obviously a person that's well accustomed or well versed in the law tell us what police did find, if anything, in terms of evidence. Once they did get that warrant for the home and fall.
In bedroom, they found at first a lot of clean up material, but the place was a horrid mess. The guy was not a good housekeeper and apparently didn't hire anyone to do that. There were a lot of cleaning material, and of course an experienced detective could see, oh, there's a crime scene and somebody's been time to clean it up. So that inspired them to begin looking at the carpets, and they began to see that there was a blood underneath the carpet. Now, meanwhile, one of the officers went
downstairs to the renter's rooms. Jeremy Moody, his girlfriend had been spending the night, and they knocked the door, and knocked on the door and allowed her to get dressed and went into the room. One of them just happened to glance into a closet and in the top of the closet in a shelf, he thought he saw something move, and he did. He looked up there and pulled some things aside, and there was David Maller up there in a fetal position of the top of the closet, hiding.
And so how did they proceed from there? Well? What did? What did? What was David Maler's state at that time, just his psychological state once he was hiding in there and was caught.
Marler had this wonderful excuse. He told him, Oh, you know, I heard some noises and people were hitting on my door at night. I didn't know what it was, and I, you know, I have some a lot of clients who may not like me very much, and I was afraid. So that's why I was hiding in the closet. I didn't know what was going on. But when they talked to Donnie van Dervelda down in the bottom apartment, Donnie was shaky and frightened and he had a hard time
expressing himself in clear terms. But he also mentioned having seen David Mahler with that gun. So David Maler under warrant, is arrested and Moody and Donnie van Dervelda are transported to the famous Hollywood Police Station Detective Bureau for investigation and questioning. You know, Joseph Wamba has made that Hollywood Police Station world famous because not only did he write a couple of nonfiction books, but he wrote several fiction
books all centered in the famous Hollywood Police Station. It was fun for my co author and me to go and get the tour of the detective Bureau there.
Wow, that must have been fun. Yeah, probably breathe oozes in breeze crime that place.
It does it? Does it? Just there's just so much history there. The famous Onion Feel killing was you know that was that was the center of that place.
Mm hmm, absolutely a true crime classic. Now, how does the how how does the interrogation go? Tell us who police concentrate on. Obviously they've got Donnie's testimony, but uh and and of course he what does he tell police? And how do they proceed with David Maler once they have this information? Obviously they're speaking to Donnie for first and foremost, and obviously right from the beginning, David Maler is trying to and concocting his version of the story.
So tell us what police were able to determine from uh Don's testimony?
Or they learned a little bit from Jeremy Moody first, the tenant, and he told him a little bit that he knew about so he didn't know anything about the killing yet. But Donnie, of course had been almost an eyewitness and he I think my readers of this book, Date with the Devil are going to enjoy Donnie's interview. Donnie is like an out of control machine gun speaking or I think I compared him to a fire hose, a loose
fire hose. He just talks in incomplete sentences and just spraying from right to left, and the detectives had such a hard time getting him to put any kind of an understandable story together. It's humorous in a way, but it's also tragic in a way. But Donnie provided some excellent information for them, and of course that caused the detective to zero in on David Maller as the person who caused Kristen's death. So now David's been sitting in the sale for several hours waiting for his turn. But
he's so confident. He's an attorney, he knows he can outwit these two amateurs, these two detectives, what do they know. I'm a I'm a sharp guy. They can't pin anything on me. So Vicky buying him and Tom Small put him in a little interview room and they start talking. And as I said, these are two of the smoothest detectives I've ever met. They don't use good cop, bad cop, but Tom is a powerful force when you speak to him, and Vicky is such a sweet, gentle, little motherly type person,
and they use this to just wonderful effect. And gradually, very gradually, they start getting admissions, little comments here and there, Ballard.
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Dropping In a nine hour interview Dan, they finally got this guy saying, well, maybe, if you if you can, if you can promise me this or promise me that, promise me that I can go home tonight, maybe I can tell you where the body might be. I have sources that might know that. What else might you give us? Well, if you promise me this or promise me that, I might be able to tell you where the gun wound up in a trash ban on on Sunset Plaza Drive.
They they got this guy spilling the beams all over himself and he's a he's a he's a professional lawyer who knows how to with them, and they just beat him to a ball with all that.
At the same time, though, he is intimating, very highly intimating that that Kristen is alive.
Is that'scre Yeah, he's he's suggesting that. He didn't say body, He said I know where she can be found, and he did name the desert. He said out near Barstow. And he finally admitted that he had taken her out there, but she was she was she was maybe not feeling well, maybe not in perfect condition, but he left her in front of a hospital.
Out there, yeah, equivalent to a hospital.
Yeah, right.
So so basically he believes in is deluded still, you know, feeling the effects of all this cocaine and crystal math. And when you talked about Donnie's disjointed rant to police, he was just dying to confess. But the thing was he was tripping over himself to do it. Is that he had been doing lines with Kristin as well, so he was indulging in the crystal math as well, wasn't he.
Yeah, well, yeah, he he. Here's many people in the in the music business. He imbibed once in a while in a little short or a little injection, I think, But he wasn't. I don't think he was a drug addict. I think he was a tweaker.
Yeah, but it does explain part of that testimony that you know, hard to make sense of it.
So that's right, state.
Yeah, Okay, So now we have David basically boxing himself into a corner. You're seeing. It's quite hilarious actually in some regards. What do police do as as a result of this information, where do they go next?
Well, next, they arrest him, in charge him with the murder. But you know, remember now they don't have a body yet, but they rest him on suspicion of maybe kidnapping or something of that effect, just so they can hold him, so the body doesn't turn that then until almost two weeks after her death, when when they it's discovered out in the desert. Now the investigators can move forward with a homicide case.
Now, how does how does the prosecution decide to try this case? And then before we talk about how the defense lines this up, but tell us about what the prosecution thinks that they have in terms of evidence in how they're going to proceed with this case, and obviously who are their likely witnesses for their theory on the motive and why this all happened and who did it.
Well, evidence is very scarce in this case. As I said, the autopsy was a little vague about the actual cause of death, and the gun was ever found, although Mahler said it would be in a trash barrel. Apparently the trash barrel had been emptied and they never found, so the evidence was pretty sparse here. So the prosecutor moves forward.
Bobby Grace, one of the best prosecutors in the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office, took on the case, and they wrestled with what the charge should be, and finally they went for second degree murder because even with Donny van de Velda's statement, they realized that Mahler was probably under the influence of drugs, was acting crazy, and would probably present some kind of a defense in which he wasn't really responsible due to his mental condition. And that's exactly what happened.
Later, right, Yeah, very interesting, you know, so they they have do they believe they have more than a circumstantial case though in terms of the evidence, because they have by this time where at some point, by the time the trial happens, they have evidence of him asking to dispose of a body, they have that type of evidence. Does that type evidence survive for the trial though?
That yes, that that will that You're correct, they did have that evidence of Donnie's having having seen him pointing the gun, his own admission that he took her out
to the desert. And but these are all circumstantial. And I you, I attended the entire trial, and I was in the defense attorney put on a great case, presenting experts on bipolar disorder, and it certainly appeared to me that that jury might very well even come up with a verdict of involuntary manslaughter, in which Muller would have walked out of there a free man, just on time
served while waiting for the trial. And I think it was very touch and go all the way what kind of a verdict they would come up with with the skimpy evidence and the mental disability case.
It was very interesting. I'd like to, you know, actually check out sort of the background on that that the psychiatrist that did testify for the defense, because his testimony fit almost note for note or piece by peace, basically Don van Dervelda's testimony, so that it fit it said, well, this created this and this is manic. This is what happens with the manic mind, and this is what this drug does, and this is this is what this person people have been known to be manic will do, which
fit exactly the description of Mahler's erratic behavior. So explain a little bit about that, because I agree with you there. He was a game changer in terms of his testimony was quite strong. He made some points that, like you say, it would be somewhat convincing to a jury at least, and all you're looking for is one jurors to get this reasonable doubt. So tell us a little bit more about that, because I think that was part of a very smart defense strategy.
It was. It was an excellent defense strategy. Mister Young, the defender had a down pat and he presented a great case to that jury that this is definitely bipolar disorder. This man didn't have any idea what he was doing at the time. His temper was was flaring. Donald van de Velda's own testimony supported that. And he's he's spinning
a gun, he's walking around with that. He's naked except for his robe which is open, and he's running around there like a crazy man, scaring the heck out of Vandevelda. And it appeared to me that they had a very good, strong defense case. Now they were hoping desperately that Atticus King during that episode at the hotel would show that Maller was very well within his right mind. He drove over there, he was, he was calm by the time he got to the hotel. He's uh, he's he's partying
with the hooker. He's he's uh, he's buying all this great expensive booze and they're having a wonderful time. They get drunk and blake break a TV. But but let me tell you something, Atticus King was, He was the best. Was one of the most colorful witnes as I've ever seen. Atticus, with probably not even a high school education, completely baffled both the prosecutor and the defense attorney. He would not answer a question directly, no, no matter how now they
rephrase it over and over. Even the judge Dan was sitting there covering his mouth trying not to laugh at Atticus King's testimony. It was hilarious. This guy is, he's rotund, he's he likes to wear these flashy white or bright red jumpsuits. And he came in. I described him like a wrestling star coming into the arena with the spotlight on. When he walked into the courtroom and he sat in that witness chair and he gave them no one any useful information. He was beautiful.
Yeah, need to very much enjoy himself as well.
He did. Yeah, he's a character. And that's what Ron Bowers, my couth and I have said that this book has the best cast of characters and his cass in Hollywood, of course, of any book we worked all together. But back to the trial, So Atticus didn't help. The defense attorney put on the experts to show the bipolar disorder.
But somehow, somehow, that jury saw through all that and they knew that this attorney, maybe perhaps by his own behavior, sitting sitting on the prosecution or the defense table, this guy looked arrogant and was smirking and being defensive and trying to argue with the judge. And at one point he was very out of order and had to be handcuffed, and usual, you know, he's wearing a suit, and usually defendants for a murder are not, or even manslaughter are
not handcuffed in front of the jury. But his behavior and maybe Maler was trying to prove just how to vout of control he is. But the jury saw through that and eventually came back with a second degree murder conviction. But that wasn't the end of the story.
Dan, now tell us what happened obviously the appeal process as for any person's right, but especially a person that did fairly well at trial despite this verdict and has the means or would have the means, especially one way or another a lawyer would take this because of the high profile nature of this. And maybe you can tell us how big the coverage was of this as well, because I think this is, like you said, has had all those elements. How big was this story in terms for the media?
You know, ordinarily this would have been all over the headbines and the television show that it got very little coverage even despite the color of the story and they explosiveness of it, because unfortunately Phil Spector was being tried at the same time for a very very similar murder.
Those crime boffs who know about Phil Spector, the famous music king in Los Angeles, who took Lana Clerkson up to his matsion got angry and produced a gun and started waving at her and pulling the trigger and killed her. And that's almost precisely what David Maller did to Kristin Baldwin. So to two murders. But of course Phil Spector had all this notoriety, and he's famous, world famous, and he's
in the music business. So the news media were only interested in Phil during that time and then also during during the during the Mahler trial, interestingly enough, was one of the biggest forest fires in Los Angeles history. It covered exactly the span of the trial and burned, you know, thousands of acres and the hills just above Los Angeles. So the media was focused on that, so our story didn't get a whole lot of media coverage.
Yeah, now back to the appeal process. Obviously, as per right, they have the right to appeal. On what grounds did they appeal and were they successful? And tell us about that.
You know, Ron Bauers and I were a little mystified because we knew that Moller missed the six month deadline for lodging an appeal, so in September last year, we were both stunned when we found that an appeals court had overturned the verdict and the sentence of course, and that the whole process was going to have to start over.
The appeals court found some extremely rare of technicality in the jury instructions the judge had given in defining what second degree murder is, and it had nothing to do with whether Maller did it or not. But it's some little, little, tiny technicality that the appeals court decided to carried weight
and they overturned the whole thing. And so the book was scheduled to come out and last November, but I as soon as I heard in septemb member of the overturned verdict contacted the publisher and they push it out to this June. Now we thought, oh my gosh, can the book ever come out? Because this could take two
or three years to get this guy retried again. The legal process is so slow, but remarkably incredibly in my view, last February, Maller when they were starting to have hearings to have a new trial Maler stood up and decided to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter. Rather than face the possibility of maybe first degree murder or second degree murder again with a virtual life sentence, he decided to accept
a twenty year sentence for voluntary manslaughter. And I was a pretty happy guy because I call the publisher and said, Okay, we're back in business. Hope we can bring our book out in June.
Yeah, I know that feeling. The book I was doing was delayed at the last minute for two and a half years, so it was like, Okay, that was a long wait. So yeah, yeah, Now voluntary manslaughter versus second degree murder, maybe you'll have to tell me how you second degree murder is a little bit different in Canada where I am. Second murder is anywhere from the possibility of parole of ten year minimum before you're eligible for a parole to twenty five years and that's that's life.
And usually people do not spend the rest of their lives on either first degree, but especially second degree murder convictions. Now you say voluntary manslaughter, why would he take that deal as opposed to the second degree of second degree conviction?
Tell us what the second conviction would mean in real terms, in typically what would happen with a person like David Maler and what was the deal that he got, and what in voluntary manslaughter in terms of how much time you'll actually do, what would that actually be?
Well, the original second degree murder conviction with some added specifics like use of a weapon, threatening a weapon, of assault with a weapon, of use of a gun. Those are enhancements to the sentence that made it over forty years. Originally he'd been serving over forty years, but by coming back and pleading guilty to voluntary manslaughter, the basic sentence I believe is fifteen years plus the enhancements which make it twenty. Now it's a little uncertain as to whether
he will be eligible for parole or not. I think that's still yet to be decided, but the opinions are that he will have to serve about at least eighty percent of that term before he can come up for parole. And knowing Mahler, with his behavior and his aggressiveness and his need to control everything, he will not be an ideal prisoner inmates, So he's probably in a service full twenty and he's I think about forty five years old now, so he's going to be in there for a while.
What was I going to ask as well too, in terms of how much time did he he was He was refused bail obviously most people are in murder cases. But how he was in prison since two and seven.
So this this took place in May of May of two thousand and seven, and the trial was September two thousand and nine, so he.
Has also had the additional time of in prison already, so we can add that. So he got a pretty decent sentence despite the plea agreement.
Which he did, but that time served between the time he was arrested and the time of the trial was two years. And that's why many people were sitting there nervously thinking, if the jury comes back with just a manslaughter conviction or involuntary manslaughter, even he might have walked out of that after that first trial if that's what the jury had decided. But they were pretty bright and pretty wise when they came back with probably what was the correct verdict.
Yeah, it was interesting to see. The difference is because we've probably discussed this before, or at least you may I have discussed this before on this program. That there is that difference. The same evidence that I heard at that trial would have made would have given him one way or another, through a plea agreement or through trial a manslaughter. And we don't have the specifics that you have the first degrees or those type of determinations. It's
just a manslaughter. So but with manslaughter at that time, he would have had credit for the pre trial custody. At one time he would add double credit for that
pre trial custody. And typically manslaughter sentences were around the range of ten years, and we automatically have a two thirds of a sentence before a mandatory parole, so like good behavior, so we're talking about a pretty short sentence if a person was convicted, and in our courts, typically what this person, David Maler did would be considered insanity. There would have been no bonus sentencing for those other crimes that would have been concurrent, and so it would
have been a different outcome. I've been looking at a completely different outcome for the same So that's what it was very interesting to me to see the same kinds of things that I do here we do here for the defense of psychiatrists get up and it's almost seems tailor made to the testimony that they are facing, and then they're fitting that psychiatric testimony. It's very interesting to hear that and do not go ahead.
I'm sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say it. It was just a fascinating case and it was just I was on the edge of my seat that whole trial, just trying to see which way it was going to go, one way or the other, and trying to you know, have you noticed I don't know if you have many trials you sat through, Dan, but everyone thinks you can. You can look at a jury and try to guess where they're going, And my experience is that's totally impossible.
Jurors somehow automatically when they sit and then those chairs up there, have that ability to put on these impassive masks of faces and betray nothing. It's amazing how they can do that.
Well, all I know is that I've really only attended to murder trials, but the one murder trial that I paid any kind of it, and I wasn't watching the jurors constantly. But when you do mention that I have, you could not tell what was going on at all, especially the evidence that these people had to look at and hear, you know, and I have seen I won't say which trial, but people sleeping at the trial, so
you know' not compelling. It's not compelling to everybody because there is so much, you know, for every not for everybody. Is it is fascinating. I think people lose. I think the more you know, the more interesting it is. And this I think the true crime reader is one of those very knowledgeable people, whether they've been at a murder trial or not. Great authors like yourself have brought the trial to these people we want.
But there's one point in this case that I could I could see the emotion on every juror's face, and it was this moment during the victim impact statements before the sentencing. Kristen's sister, Robin, walked in there and she was carrying a little what looked like a little wooden jewelry case or something like a little cask, and she walked up to the lectern and she stood there for a moment and she put that little cast down on the lectern and she looked at the juror and she said,
this is my sister. And she was carrying the ashes of Kristen in that box. And I tell you, every person in that courtroom had goosebumps on their arms, and I could see the tears welling and the jurors' faces. And she spoke of her loving relationship with Kristen and how they'd been so close, and now this is all this left. This is my sister.
What was the composition of the jury in terms of male female?
And sort of roughly, but I think it was about seven women and five men, if I remember. I may be wrong on that. I've forgotten. I've seen so many jurors and I believe that's close.
Right, And so finally they got when was this trial? Finally? Was it? You say, two thousand and eleven? Was this finally dealt with?
And no, September two thousand and nine was the trial three years?
No?
No, no, But in terms of all the appeals and everything, Oh well.
The appeal was just last. The overturn was just last September twenty eleven. Yeah, right, right, And then it was just what four months ago, five months ago that he four months ago that he decided to cop a deal.
And it was interesting that you just got the email, you say, not that just a few months ago from someone that grew up with David Maler.
It was a person very very close to him during his childhood who knew all about him, and this person has since since. I was amazed because when I was when I first received the email, I thought this person was going to excoriate me for not being fair with a person that they knew so well, poor David. But as it turned out, this individual wanted to reveal just
how bad David was. And this individual has since sent me fifty typed pages of great detail about his childhood and some of the things that were going on in his family life.
Well, well, whenever you do the follow up, so you have all this other incredible. That is amazing. How you were in every you are in every camp in this. You know, you're at the trial, You're getting personal messages from people that knew David Maler. Are you speaking to all these People's incredible to be in the midst of all of this, and you're tell us a little bit about your partner, Ronald Bauers, too, the gentleman that you
have as your co author. Tell us a little bit of our audience, a little bit about his contribution and who he is.
Ron is an extremely valuable collaborator. We've worked on four books together. Ron is a forty year veteran of the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office. The last ten or fifteen he was the person who prepared audio visuals for all of their trials, all of the murder trials, and he has wonderful files of everything we're thinking about right now. Putting together a book of an illustrated book with photographs of a crime history of notorious crimes in Hollywood and
Los Angeles is right now. Ron's on one of his sixth crews as a lecturer aboard the cruise ships telling about Hollywood crimes, and the audiences, mostly Australian and British, absolutely love it. Yeah, they're just fascinating, fascinated by it, and they know more about it than most Americans. For some reason, I'm always very complimented when Ron says don when I mentioned your name, a lot of them say,
oh yeah, yeah, I know Tom Lassiter's books. That's a nice feeling from British and Australian people.
Well, I get a lot of fan mail from Australia and some from England and as far away to Sweden. A lot of course from America, but quite a few people are tuned in from Australia and then they keep telling me, well, could you do some stories from Australia, And I said, well, you know this. The fact of the matter is is that some of these cases are a little bit older, and I give them the heads up on busy guys like yourself not being so eager to revisit, you know, crimes twenty years in the past.
But at the same time I recognize that Australia and England have you know, illustrious true crime histories very much. America is not the only place hotbed of true crime activity. There are other places where there are a lot of authors and a lot of amazing and crazy stories as well too.
Ron Danny is still there.
Yes, I am sorry.
You're fading way out on my phone here, so I don't know if I'm going on battery here. I guess we're getting pretty close to the end of our hour. Anyway, let me put in a quick plug. I would hope people might go to my website Don Lesster dot com and check out some of my other books. One of them Your Canada was very involved. One of our emotion notroyous killers was Charles ng who escaped to Canada, and there was quite a controversy to get him returned to
California for trial. Your Supreme Court finally had to make that decision.
Yeah, this amazing story. That's the first interview that I did with you, don and my introduction to your writing. And what a heck of an introduction to And that's tell our audience what that book is called.
It's Die for Me, and it's about Charles Ing and Leonard Lake who killed anywhere from maybe twenty to forty five people up in the Gold Country of the Foothills in California. And Lake committed suicide and Charles Ing was tried and he's on death row now in California.
Yes, this is an amazing story. Now tell us how many true crime books you do have, and tell us what your next project is. And yeah, tell us what your next true crime project will be.
Well, I'm looking at that right now. And as I said, Ron and I are considering an illustrated book of crime history here. I'm also even considered a book from the individual who contacted me about David Mother's background, But those are kind of open right now, and I haven't pinned down another true crime story yet. But I know, I've written twenty books and I think, let's see, seventeen of my guests are true crime, and you're.
With most of a lot of those books are with Kensington Press, and that's Pinnacle True Crime imprint.
That's right.
The imprint is Pinnacle and MICHAELA. Hamilton, the editor in chief there are just one of the greatest people in the world to work with. She's been my editor for several years and I just think the world of Michael.
Yeah, she seems great. And you know the thing is when I know that when I first start looking seriously at true crime, just you know, as part of the
research for my own book and just readly. I mean i'd read true crime, but obviously I got much more immersed about two thousand and four and I start seeing the names that everyone sees in true crime, the big names like yourself, and then i'd see the imprint Pinnacle and even Killer Clown, the John Wayne Gacy story from nineteen eighty three, believe was Pinnacle, and I was I
was surprised. And then I started seeing night Stalker with with Philip Carlo, and you know, it's amazing the rise of the Pinnacle and just in the last few years to be really the top dog in true crime if you're looking for those kinds of stories. There are obviously other people in true crime, other you know, companies, but
Pinnacle seems to not shy away from any story. And and then that and in that as well, it seems that a lot of really great authors have gravitated towards Pinnacle, and Pinnacle really, like I say, is a top dog in true crime and uh and puts up good, great books all the time.
So they are by the way, I got just an email, just just an hour ago, I got an email that I will be doing a documentary about Date with the Devil for television and that's that'll be my twelfth TV documentary.
Well when what will that be aired on? Do you know?
Asy on the I D channel, the Investigation Discovery Channel. But we haven't started taping. Yeah, so it'll probably be later this year.
Well, congratulations on that. I look forward to seeing that. I love that channel.
Thank you. I do too. They say they all true crime fans that know the ID channel, I think, Dan.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the thing is too, is they don't just cover American crimes. You see Canadian crimes of merit in Australian I've seen from all over the world. And yeah, if you if you love true crime, boy, I just plunk yourself in front of the TV set there and you'll get your filth, no doubt about it. But there's so many other programs too, Oprah Winfrey Network. I see there's you know, true crime is slowly I think,
gaining in prominence again as it was once. You know, it was a lot of great authors wrote a lot of really big and important books in true crime, and I think people have forgotten. Sometimes when I hear people say I don't really read true crime, they say, well, I haven't read true crime, and I say, you know what, You've got to remember it is history as well, so it's just that strange history as all.
It is.
Well done. Well, Don, I want to thank you very much for coming on the program and talking about your latest date with the Devil. Thank you very much for this interview. I hope you have a good evening.
It was my privilege, Dan, and thank you very much. You have a good evening too.
Thank you very much, Don. Good night, good night.