COLD BLOODED MURDER-Brad Hunter

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You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Geese, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening.

Murder is the most vile crime known to man. It can be triggered by love, or money, or sex. Those are the three big ticket items for homicide. But people are strange. They will kill for the most obscure and ridiculous of reasons. In thirty years covering murder, Brad Hunter has discovered each one has its own flavor. Cops and friends can be stunned by the evil lurking within a

Great to be here, Dan, how are you today?

Fine?

Thank you, Thank you so much for joining me and our audience with this Cold Blooded Murder. Let's start off with just a brief outline of the stories that are in this book, starting with Arsenic in the Bowling Alley. But before I start, just give us the criteria that you used to this collection of twenty five stories.

I was looking for stories I'd done over the years that were more memorable, that had more of a dramatic arc to them than two guys shooting and in a parking lot at three o'clock in the murning. A lot of these are tangled tales of love, gonna rye, sex and money are frequently players and them bad kids. It's almost like, sort of like an element of watching forensic files where you can tell within five minutes whether it's the father, the mother, the son, or the daughter.

Or some combination thereof. But yeah, those are the ones I looked for, and I looked for.

Another element I looked at, too, is geography in place. But I like doing stories that have strong sense of place, what's going on, whether it's a rust belt town in the Midwest in the late nineteen seventies or early nineteen eighties, or Los Angeles at any time, or small towns in Texas, that sort of thing. Those are some of the criteria. Those are the ones that kind of jump out at me.

That I was from a small town myself.

Brand knows how to talk to the farmers and folks, so we'll send him right rather than some guy with a heavy New York accent.

So interesting.

The other common element of this collection is the truly horrifying crimes that are contained. Let's start with just and give us an outline of these stories as I mentioned them, and then we'll go more in depth to particular stories that warrant even more exploration. Let's talk about Arsenic in the Bowling Alley November two thousand.

Arsenic in the Bowling Alley concerns the matter of Ann and Eric Miller, who were a high flying couple in rally Durham, North Carolina, r a big part of the high tech scene there. She was working for a computer company and he was a pediatric AIDS researcher. She decided to play outside the marriage, and he slowly got sicker and sicker and sicker, and until finally whenn ambulance came and got him at the Bowling Alley on his last night,

For ever interesting.

Your next story is Angel Faced Monster and this is in a place called Alba, Texas. And this is March two thousand and eight. In the Kathy family.

Yeah, this one.

You have what you have, and I mean some of the rebel without a cause element. It's the Kafes were very religious people and whatnot, and their daughter Aaron wasn't particularly keen on that and wanted more independence and like a lot of teens, wanted to do what she wanted to do. And standing in the way were her religious parents who didn't like her boyfriend and didn't like much about the scene she was in. She was cute and

It's very interesting you you write that he became an ordained minister and this idea forgiving his daughter. He went to visit her twice a week and they just avoided the entire murderous subject when he was visiting it.

Yeah, and that's kind of the bizarre thing that there might be an elephant in the room sort of thing. But people take comfort and religion and sort of I guess difficulty with that level of faith.

That you know, you can let a lot.

Of elephants be in the room and not really say too much. And that's that's what happened there. I mean, only her age saved her from the death penalty.

And believe it or not, I know it seems like they give it like candy.

It does.

But that sort of thing you would probably die for that.

Interestingly too, he was shot eleven times, and as you write and you describe, there are times when they just make sure he's dead, or they believe they're making sure he's dead, shooting him in the back and shooting him at numerous times. And yet he drags himself three hundred yards to a neighbor's home and is able to survive, and then of course give the police this tip that

They were hard core religious people and it was that religosity ran headlong into teenage hormones.

Absolutely.

The next story you have is the I five killer, and you write that in October nineteen eighty, this horror show, and that truly is an understatement.

Began.

This first victim was Cherry Ares, and she's a twenty nine year old X ray technician and she had earlier ran into her ex classmate, Randy Woodfield. You write by sundown she was dead. But in October ninth they found in an apartment they found other victims as well. And this Woodfield character, you right, Randy Woodfield, You right about his background? Who is this Randy Woodfield? And tell us more about his this murderous rampage.

Sure, Randy Woodfield was grew up in Oregon, but he was a good football player. He played high school football and then he got drafted by Oregon State and at least several of the coaches thought that he could make it in the NFL. He had the size and the ability to get the job done. So, but his problem in high school that there's some flashing incidents in high school and there are more incidents in college, including a rape beef. But he manages with help of football people,

He kicked off his killing spree there.

Now they asked to me, he was only convicted of one murder, and they suspect these good for probably about forty homicides right up and down the I five. The five.

The I five runs from Canadian border.

To Mexico, and that's the northwest. That was also noting the hunting grounds of Ted Bundy and the Green River Killer. It's a lot of remote areas and whatnot spectatullar scenery, but a lot of remote areas and perfect for somebody who wants to kill.

There was numerous victims that were racked up in this murderous rampage, and the crimes were horrific, sodomizing children and.

Raping and murdering in brutal manner.

The question you say is that and the question they had at that time is what they thought was such a seemingly normal person. What could tournament to such a savage killer.

Well, you always look at the upbringing, and his brother avoided him, and they were on the same football teams in high school and college, and his brother wanted nothing to do with him. And there's no scientific explanation for it. But it's sort of the bad seed argument, you know what I mean, He's just a bad guy.

The tally that you write, though is final count is twenty five and about one hundred and forty other crimes, including robbery and sodomy and various crimes related to assault in this nineteen eighty one trial here. Now, the next story you have is the vile mister Winger and his wife Deborah Winger tell us about this vile mister Winger in this diabolical plot that he almost pulls off.

Well Mark Winger, he's in the Midwest. He what he wants to do is he, like a lot of these guys and were women, wants to start a new wants to start fresh.

So he decides he's going to kill his wife.

But he sets it up with this guy who drives her from the airport in the Springfield in Missouri, home that the guy calls and he comes over and he basically frames this guy. He kills him, he kills his wife, and then he kills this guy and he frames the dead man for murder and took police quite a while to sort it out and some of the other details emerging that he's pretty horrific individual.

Yeah, and this is all thanks to there's a skeptical cop, but he has a partner that has a hunch on this, and so the skeptical is senior partner doesn't think much of it, but keeps it in his mind, and sure enough he listens to him eventually, and so they because he would have likely gotten away with this without a little bit of that a dedicated cop looking at this a little bit differently, Let's talk about the next story, which is Orgy of Death.

And I mentioned in the beforehand when.

We spoke that this is something I like to discuss because this is such a unique case. I'd never heard of it obviously, but it just has some very very unique and horrifying elements. Let's talk about Orgy of Death.

Sure, this is kind of sort of back to tim in place.

It's the late nineteen seventies in a place called Holland, Michigan, which is on the shores of the Lake Michigan. And it's a story book town that even the creator of Wizard the Wizard of Oz l Frank Baum with summer in sort of thing, but at this time there was It's also known for its huge pickle pact. But at this time the local paint company was on strike and they brought in scabs and security to keep the paint flowing as it were, into this mix. Now, a lot of them.

Were kept at stay at this place called.

The Blue Mill Hotel, and that's where this woman named Janet Chandler. She was I think twenty at the time. She was a church girl in the choir. Shy didn't say too much, but what all these guys, these people brought in to the Blue Mill was drugs, boozing, loads of sex, lots of partying all the time. And effectively Janet Chandler was was leading a double life on one and mom and dad sire as the church going Janet

To death at rape.

But there was a wall of silence over what had happened. In fact, the wall of silence remained in place for twenty five years until some student filmmakers did a movie about it, did a documentary about it, and that kind of was a bit of a kick in the ass for local cops, and then they began looking at it again, and they started getting They started with her, and they started getting the picture of what happened, and they discovered

Time she was murdered.

And many years later they rested six and they arrested it was twenty four present at this Yang rape men and women, and some of them are dead now and some of them are still in prison. Laurie Swank was released from prison. But yeah, I fairly sorted the story quite tragedy.

It's a horrifying description that you do in the book with these people present partying. You say that when she was actually tortured to death, or while she was being tortured, there was applause. This Laurie was really upset that this Janet had sex with this Arthur Carl Peva. But this the betrayal of her friend, this older man named Lynch that she had dated, helped crack this case as well

Well, Lynch was Lynch was a wreck by the you know, by that time, and he had he had lived with the guilt of this for decades, and over time he eventually, you know, he came to trust the detectives involved in and from the Michigan State Police and told them the whole story of that terrible night. Now, I mean, I think probably he got a load off of his conscience, but I mean he ended up dying I think of

Absolutely not.

Your next story is called Daddy's Girl, and this is in San Diego, in a community called Rolando. There's a nine to one to one call my stepdad's been shot, and again kind of alluded to it some of these stories. You it's like a forensic files in that Oh yeah, pretty well, have a grasp of what's going to go on with this story. So this this is called daddy's girl. Just tell us what happens in this almost obvious tale. From the beginning, Well.

Tim McNeil was a very successful lawyer in San Diego, and he had married a woman. She had she had two children, and he had essentially adopted his children. I mean, he was when the mother had mental issues, and when they divorced, the children stayed with him and it was unrelentingly kind to them. But and his daughter bray Anson adored him. But what happened was is that, you know, she said that her father had been an intruder and her father was shot and then you know, I mean

Absolutely.

You have another story called homicide in the Heartland. This occurs May two thousand and nine. Another nine one one call, Please send a car to check on this man's wife. And when they come to police come to this home. Very very interesting. There is a message written in paint. It says I am always watching. And so the Sherry Coleman is dead, her son Garrett eleven years old is dead, and Gavin nine and so there's these expleted on the

Back to his own hands.

But yeah, I mean, yeah, Chris Coleman was a piece of work.

And it was interesting again in some of these fair number of these stories from the United States that very certain participit. You know, that religious aspect, you know, he was. He was a bit of a high flyer in that he had. What his wife didn't know is that he had a girlfriend in Florida who he would see frequently and spend all kinds of time.

Speaking with on the World Wide Web.

And the police got onto that. And the object his thing was is that he wanted to again, as we've said about three times, start a new life with this woman in Florida. But he got caught and is in prison in Missouri forever, with numerous appeals being torpeded.

Yes, absolutely, you do keep tabs on all of this via something called PostScript, and so you talk about where these perpetrators what would be in terms of parole eligibility.

And most of them had the death.

Penalty spared one way or another, through plea bargaining or through moratorium on the death penalty itself. So most of them are doing some sort of likely spend the rest of their life in prison. But some, as you mentioned, have been released and will certainly be released, won't they.

Yeah.

I mean it's an interesting thing because some of these situations, I mean tough a lot of people in the world over. The American justice system is very draconian, and it can be sure, But because.

Your sentence to one hundred and fifty years doesn't mean you do one hundred and fifty years.

Mind you, If you're getting one hundred and fifty years, chances are that you're going to serve the lion's share of your sentence. But yeah, and they will, they will release them eventually. I mean, I don't see someone like Anne Miller getting out there. Her husband had an agonizing death. She shot him in the back of the head. It should probably be look at less time. But that's what they determine as well, right, I mean, how horrific was it? A lot of these cases pretty horrific.

Yes, speaking of very horrific, you include the dating game killer in this collection, and so we won't go into that right at this time, but his murderous rampage was recorded in this book. In this you talk about you included this as well, because there's a commentary on southern California being the happy hunting grounds for homicidal meetings of all kinds and even serial killers. With the lure of California Hollywood not just for aspiring movie stars.

Well, yeah, California is the author James Elroy, who I interviewed many years ago and whatnot. He simply put it in to a lot of ways for people who are you know, true crime fans is James Elroy said to me, he said, people come to Los Angeles to be someone else, and when you have that little self esteem, terrible things are bound to happen.

And that's that's one of the things I mean.

In Los Angeles in the nineteen eighties, you know, there was the Hillside Strangler, there was the nightstock or there was the Freeway Killers. There was like any number serial killers happening all at the same time. And if you know Los Angeles at all, it's a staggering number of different jurisdictions. And you know, communication wasn't quite what it was back in the day. Somebody from LAPD robbery homicide sees something, he's going to raise an eyebrow, whereas.

The pop from Newport Beach, he's not getting it.

He's not seeing it right. So different levels of talent and one not. But I mean, there's people tend to people with troubles, not always with troubles and whatnot. And this was pointed out on Hunter S. Thompson's seven old book Hell's Angel. And people sometimes are camp followers, bottom feeders.

So they keep moving.

West and have you know, and they have troubles and whatnot, social problems or whatever, and they keep moving west until there's no place else to go. It's the same as southern Florida as well. Right then boom, you're at the Pacific Ocean. There is nowhere further for you to go. And I think that that kind of unleashes the beast to an extent. You think it might be, wow, I'm finally here, but it doesn't because the problems tend to

Absolutely, and you're.

Right in the end of the dating game killer that he remains in Corcoran's state prison. But there are one hundred and nine photos of this photographer of the unidentified women Rodney al Kala took, and they remain online to this day. One hundred and nine photos waiting to be identified.

Yeah, they found them in a storage shed of his or storage unit in Seattle, and nobody's able to connect these photos, which are you have various levels of disturbing. They're troubling, they're snapshots and whatnot, but they've never been able to link any of them to him. They know they're his, no one has come forward and said that's me. No one has come forward and said I know her.

It's one of those things, like John Gasey, that the mystery surrounding the murders continue to go on and on and on and on and seemingly without end.

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And that's all over YouTube. Your next story is called Murder in Farmville, and.

You say the crime scene just resembled nothing less than a slaughterhouse. Four corpses, people bludgeon to death, the hammer and a wood splitting tool. And after that these people were disfigured, their faces, disfigured beyond recognition. Incredible story.

Yeah, it's pretty wild. It's you know, it's one of those one of those situations of careful, be careful about the company you keep.

This young woman, I'm a Niederbrock, was.

Teenage girl who was into the insane clown posse. They would consider themselves jugglers. I don't know a lot about that world or necessarily want to. And he had met this guy who the Internet, who is also an insane clown posse fan. Now the parents, I mean, her dad was a Presbyterian minister and they were good, solid middle class people.

They'd recently divorced but were on friendly terms.

And so mom allows Samuel McCroskey. Here's aka Psiko Sam in the world of qure com. He comes to a state for a concert and whatnot with these people with Emma in Virginia. Well, what happens is he has some issues and he freaks out and he murders Emma, her mother, her father, and her friend Melany, and then he goes on the run. He's picked up at the airport. But the thing that's interesting, but that story is going into

It's just these but with Across, this was more than a phase.

He pashed them death with camer gave their heads and really wait wait, troubling.

It was this and again it's it's a reoccurring theme in why some people killed. But there was this incredible rejection of him. Soon as he came. They had dated online in this fantasy world Emma and this psycho Sam, and she was impressed by his credibility in this horror core wrap business, I guess this culture. But when she actually saw him after a year. He was overweight, He was a shy, he was a shy loaner.

But bad hygiene.

Bad hygiene. Yeah, always seems to.

Be a common scene here too in some.

Of these Yeah, incredible.

You have another story called Nasty Nurse. Just give us the background on this extraordinary story.

Michelle Bachel she was n nurse in West Virginia.

From her high school prom queen cheerleader and all that.

And she ended up with a guy named Jimmy Michael.

But she was always carrying on. She she had a multitude of affairs. So he What happens is is that she skips out of work and Russia's home, then goes back to work, and then she gets a call from the cops that her hous is on fire with her husband inside. She'd given him some drugs to essentially knock him out and or or I guess what's better. The knockout is basically render him immobile rather than being knocked out, And the house was set of blazed and he died

Of a new life with a new man, and they.

Had suspected her for quite a long time, but they eventually taught her.

But she was not the one to take home with the mom.

She was like kind of floy kill Billy posh would be the best way to describe where she came from. And one noted and there was more stories vouter she would she got what she wanted, and apparently what she wanted was her husband Jimmy out of the way.

Yeah, you have this particularly horrifying story that you call Hollywood horror, and you mentioned Black Dahia at that time in Los Angeles, Elizabeth Betty Short. But then you quickly go to the main character in this and this is a Blake Libel, a child of one of Canada's wealthiest families. Grew up in Toronto in Forest Hill and raised by his dad, Lauren Libel, billionaire real estate developer.

And Blake lived his playboy.

Lifestyle and drove ferraris and race cars and so, but wasn't enough money from dad. So what happens and what is his what are his dreams? What are his aspirations? What does he try to fancy himself as ideally?

Well, he's Blake Bibel wants to fashion himself as a comic book graphic novelist that Hollywood producer mishmash of pop culture thrown into into one pot.

And he moves out to Los Angeles in two thousand and four and helped along with not only a mass of inheritance from his mother who's passed away, but he's getting eighteen grand a month and a mansion and all bills paid for from his father.

This kid is super, super, super spoiled.

So he wants to he wants to get into this.

Sort of world.

And he ends around with a lot of other Toronto Trustafarians hanging out in Los Angeles at the time, including his brother Cody, who was famous for being a pigeon for card Sharks in Bossi Angeles. But one guy I talked to him who knew Blake Libel had dealings with Hi mean he was in the movie business, said, even by the weird standards of comic book nerds.

That come in pitching your ideas, his hygiene was worse.

He was weirder than anybody else in that new You and So. But he seemed to settle down at one point, and he married a woman named Amanda and they had two children. But he was smoking reefer like it was going out of style at the time, and not really having.

A whole bunch of success.

I mean, he had the one book he did called Syndrome, but I don't know how other than a concept, because somebody else wrote it, somebody else drew it, somebody else edited, and somebody else inked it. So he had actually very little to do. But the prosecutors would eventually would call it a blueprint for murder and pretty sick book. So him and his wife split up, but.

He ends up moving into a condo.

And initially, you know, he blows all kinds of money on his new girlfriend, Anakassian, who's Ukrainian woman, And initially he blows all kinds of money on her on trips and eiels and all.

Sorts of luxury and even buiser and Mercedes.

But he gets block picked up for sexual assault in California. And this is around the time she's decided twenty sixteen, she's deciding, despite the financial good, he's it's not worth it being with this guy.

And that's even after she gave birth.

To their baby girl. So he wants to have a meeting with her, and he goes to her house and to their home and their shared condo, and he proceeds to torture her to death for eight hours and the point for draining all her blood and when the cops arrive, he's in his underwear and look looks out of his mind. Some of a lot of the cops in on this. In Southern California, of course, gold standard and murder is the nineteen forty slaying of Elizabeth Short aka the Black Dahlia.

Crimes ever seen in Los Angeles.

You right, that part of the horror was that her scalp was completely removed and part of her face was right side of it was torn away, and she had been bitten.

Yeah, you know, we can go add honesty about the grewsome details because there are plenty of them. When that woman went through absolute hell before she was mercifully released from this veil of tears. And at his trial it was just like a no hope for and I you know, still in Southern California legal circles, there's still a lot of belief that he should have got the death penalty. That surely it was a death penalty crime. But you could also say it's a matter of NCR. But I mean,

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For these messages. Now you have some more titles in this collection. You have the taptic called Cup of Lies, you have one called Comic Book Killer in Macombe County, Michigan. And you have a story called Boy Toy Terror. You have that you talk about Elvis execution, and so there's some stories about Elvis as a perpetrator and Elvis as a victim, and these are noted Elvis impersonators. But you have a story called Hotel Hair Air Horror, and this involves Ben Nowak Junior, a fifty two year old and

Well, normally they're based in Florida, they live in Miami, but they find him in the hotel room in Westchester County where.

He was supposed to be an age show.

They find him with his head essentially caved in and believe the murder weapon is a LAYMP and he's it's a long way from home, and so the questions start rolling already, you know, is the robbery, is this targeted and they start looking at his past. Homicide detectives always look at the family first and landed squarely on Nursey, who Ben had met while while she was still stripping. He had a horatious sexual appetite and he had a

And she would be left penniless.

And that was ultimately the motive, and she recruited her brother and some other people to kill her husband, Ben Nawak.

She later tried to blame it on her own daughter, who was who was close with Ben. And the other thing.

Other interesting thing was, as it comes out, is you know, the detectives in Florida are investigating this as well. They take another look at the death of Ben Novak's elderly mother and they conclude that she had died in a fall at her home. New evidence they turn up determines that she had been she had been pushed and had that she had in fact been murdered, and the perpetrator was Darcy Noak because the mother always hated her and

While that's fascinating, and you also talk about that this crime inspired the Lifetime movie Beautiful and Twisted, a made for TV movie starring Rob Lowe as Ben Noak Junior and Candice Bergen as as Bernice Noak. So that's fascinating. You have another story called Legally Dead, and you have another one called Sinister Scrapbooker and take place in Ocean City.

Yeah. Yeah, The Sinister scrap Booker is interesting. Erica Siffrett he hooks up with this guy.

She was like a high school basketball star and she's on a basketball scholarship and she meets this guy, Benjamin Sifra, who's.

A former military man and whatnot, and they hook up and they're going to do stuff together. Now, her parents are quite wealthy.

She's an only child, so they invulge her even a.

Thing for scrap booking, and so they opened the scrap booking store. Well, the couple they go down to Ocean city, which is a lesser known resort on the eastern spot of the United States. Nice beach shs and you know, fairly affordable and whatnot. And they run into this other

It's interesting that there's a ruse used in this thrill killing, very very original. Instead of just killing them, they came up with the ruse that they had been stolen from or where's my wife's purse and so from there then they said this is the game we're going to play. You find the purse and you live. So that that's such a horrifying fate for these people that think, oh, it's some kind of gross misunderstanding. However, it's just the diabolical nature of this game.

Well, yeah, evil, if she had met him it's always one of those questions. I mean, you can say Paul Bernardo never killed until he met Carla Homolka. So I mean it's one of those, one of those things which came first, the chicken in the egg. I mean, she probably settled down with some nice boy from her small town. She probably would have been all right, you know this guy, and maybe this guy would have been all right too, bj would have been all righty themselves, but together they were explosive.

Well then again, she used this innocent scrap booking hobby, but she scrapped booked the murders themselves and kept souvenirs like at that place from one of the victims. So and she documented everything so very much unlike your depiction, very much like a psychopathic personality as well.

Absolutely, that's always the question too in these cases is what was just somebody over the line to, you know, go from being a nut to a psycho, murderous psycho. Right, Whether any really help with.

No, absolutely not. You have a chapter called the Suitcase Killer. A couple floating suitcases, blood leaking from them, and of course the sickening contents.

It's amazing. There's two suitcases.

Found, one with half a body and then another with the other half of the body.

Well that was yeah, that's the case.

But Melanie McGuire, Melanie was a fertility nurse, so that she was eventually arrested. She had access to drugs, this chloral hydrate, and she was arrested in two thousand and five. Now, Brad, the last story in this book is called Coach Killer, and this is David Temple January nineteen ninety nine. His wife Belinda, she's eight months pregnant. He says he went out to get some sodas. Tell us what they find and what is behind this story.

Well they find. What they find with David Temple is David Temple's tells cops and there are those in Texas.

They're still a lead. He's innocent. But he comes home, does he you know? I think he went to the store to get some popper, some soda or something like.

That, snacks, and he came back and his wife, who was Linda, was eight months pregnant at the time. She was dead of a.

Apparent self inflicted gunshot.

At least that's what that's what he was telling cups that he didn't understand it.

And the whole rigmarole of malarkey. He didn't think.

No one said that. But what David Temple was doing, David Temple was everybody's all American sort of thing, the local football coach, which in some parts of Texas bestows a godlike massage upon a person. And that's what he was, and what he was doing was he was also having it in there. And they lived in this place called Katie, Texas, just outside of Houston, not far from Houston. And that is what he complained in recent days about his wife putting on weight. Well, of course, then they met in

This murder, you write that eighteen months after he remarries this Heather Scott. So it takes them from ninety nine to two thousand and four till they arrest him and take him to trial. And of course that trial he has the famous Dick to gear In of famed Houston attorney who had defended Robert Durst. And but prosecutor Siegler, who you right now is the host of the true

I also covered the Robert Durst case when I was working for the New York Post. I got sent down to Texas to cover that. Island say, one of the forgotten parts of the Durst case is he was bizarrely acquitted, but he had chopped off as the neighbor's head and Austin and Galveston Bay whilst going around Texas Golf Coastmunity dressed as a woman. So yeah, lots of back there as well.

That's incredible.

You'd see that the what money can buy is a defense like that after the fact, with no witnesses whatsoever or seeming any evidence to corroborate what he said in that it was self defense. So with the best attorneys, you get the best defense, and an incredible defense he had in that particular case.

Well, the gharon got him bail as well, and when that's when he went on the run before eventually getting pulled over in Pennsylvania after stealing a sandwich with three dollars and forty.

Nine cents at a convenience store.

And was arrested there, and that's when I flew back with him in two Texas Rangers back to Texas. Just sitting across from observing him for three hours was interesting enough.

In this collection, it seems that there are many, many stories of people that are not content with their relationships and whether it be with their parents or be with their wife or their husband, which leads to the motive of murder.

Yeah, it's it's one aspect that's never I've never been able to figure out that planned approach to something like that because it seems to me, I mean, it's not condoning it, but that heat of the moment, nafan the guts or gunshot or whatnot between couple, you know, horrific as it is, you can understand that. But the plan ad and whatnot, I mean, particularly when we know that you're the first person OPS are going to come to.

They become like dynamite in some people's hands. Most love quarantine boys just sit in mote, right.

They don't decide to kill their underequited love or family and your friend.

You know what.

All these stories though very many horrifying aspects as I mentioned, but also just the excessiveness of it. You have the Terry was shot eleven times and survived and they tried to kill him. There is the disfigurement. There's the facial disfigurement of some of these victims, the sustained eight hour torture in Orgy of Death, the Jackson Pollock crime scene inspired with blood everywhere crime scenes, and the man hogtied with his eyes cut out. So these are stories that

Well, yeah, I didn't send out to be the Ghoulmeister, but these also happened to be extremely interesting, compelling stories. Absolutely, I wasn't jumping into West Craven territory. And that's one of the things, because I mean, these murders are just extreme examples of what sadly happens every day. They're just

But like a lot of these are just next level that.

Yeah, I mean, there's obviously some true psychopaths in there, and if you know they're not psychopaths and they certainly display a staggering array of psychopathic behavior.

Yes, well, I just got to say this collection is beyond the pale in terms of just fascinating but horrifying, and just some of the background to some of these stories make them so memorable. I want to thank you so much for coming on and talking about your book, Cold Blooded Murder, Shocking True Stories of Killers and Psychopaths. For those people that might want to take a look at your other work or do you do any social media, it can.

Be found on at Hunter T Capital T Capital Capitals son so do o Son, that's my Twitter handle. Feel free to drop me a line B Hunter at postmedia dot com, or you can follow my column pretty much every on crime pretty much every day in the Toronto Toronto Sun dot com.

Thank you so much, Brad Hunter cold Blooded Murder Shocking True Stories of Killers and Psychopaths. You have a great evening. Thank you for this interview.

Thanks for having me, Dan, Take care, good night,