CAMOUFLAGED KILLER-David A. Gibb

claim you're free. Welcome bonus. That's Chumbuck Casino dot com and live the Chumba line. No pers necessary, dvoid over if I lost terms conditions eighteen plus.

the British royal family. As one of the most respected and trusted soldiers in the military, he was also a rapist and a murderer. This is a disturbing true account of how one of Canada's highest ranking military officers became one of Canada's most notorious criminals, including his ultimate capture, trial and conviction for a twisted spree of sexual deviancy

and two brutal rapes and murders. Camushflage Killer. The Shocking Double Life of Canadian Air Force Colonel Russell Williams is the book that we're going to be profiling this evening with my special guest journalist and author David A.

a wonderful book, by the way, Thank you. Let's start off a little differently than your book and let's get to the character of Russell Williams. Take us back to the early life of Russell Williams where he grew up in Canada, and tell us about his early family life right from the very beginning. Based on your research.

It was it was created to be a perfect little community for the PhDs that were working at the nearby nuclear power facility back in the nineteen sixties and the earlier. So so it's a very very sanitized community that it just it gives off a very odd aura. And I've known a few people who have actually lived there for some period of time when they could not wait to, as they say in their own words, escape the town.

But he stayed there until he was only six years old, and then they moved on after his parents became involved with another couple, the Counterparts. His father became involved with the his best friend's wife and his mother Williams, his mother became involved with later became involved with the uh that woman's husband, her husband's former best friend, and they did a switch through there and Russell will move with his with his brother and his mom down to Toronto. At that point.

And uh uh the the the the one thing that that did stand out was the fact that there were people, including a former teacher, who said that his his mother back then was ravishing, gorgeous, well figured brunette. And she later said, when she saw pictures of Jessica Lloyd Williams's second murder victim, that she was a dead ringer for what his mother looked like back in those days.

later serial killer. There there were lots of people who had known him back in high school who said that he seemed a little strange and a little unusual, but they no more would have suspected he'd be a serial killer than they suspected he would later be the commander of Canada's largest air force base. So there were no indications during his elementary school years, during his high school years,

and even into his university. Here is there was very little in the way of anything bizarre about his character.

well with his peers and with his teachers. And I also access some reports that had been filed by Children's Aid Society investigator who as part of standard procedure, would come in and observe the family back in those days whenever there was a divorce occurring, and their report on Russell was that he was a very well adjusted, very bright six year old boy, and who showed a lot of love for his brother and his parents, and was

a very loving, well adjusted kid. So again, even even for the trained eye, they could not see any pattern of disturbing behavior.

be socially or publicly affectionate with her. They'd walk hand in hand, but any other contact would be reserved for behind closed doors, and they never were seen kissing in the hallways or anything like that. Now, unfortunately, she's she's not willing to talk to anybody. I do know who she is, but she's stated she didn't want to go on record publicly as to what happened in their relationship. But that was the only girl he saw during high school.

During he did have another another flame just as he was entering a university. He apparently was the one who broke that off. Then he met a foreign exchange student from Japan, and that was the one that ended up breaking his heart. Apparently she she returned to Japan after her studies and left him broken hearted. And apparently he did not date again after that until he met his his wife, I mean several several years later, a dozen

years later. So he was quite a stretch there with no with no female interaction apparently.

of power and prestige. And he seemed to be during his university years kind of getting to know himself and moving away from the economics and the bookish type jobs to one that he would be in a position of power in. And he did apply to the RCMP as well, and he was actually accepted as an ARCYMP officer after a barrage of the tests, but he put that on hold to wait and hear back from the military first,

because that was his prime objective at that point. Apparently he had been he had been inspired by Tom Cruise and Top Gun and that was that was now his plan for the future.

ladder as quick as he he's humanly produced. So and uh and the people I had spoke to who had worked with him in the military just said he was he was the ideal officer. He was the ideal candidate and from the get go people knew that he was going to be an achiever.

In fact, that's where he married eventually, Mary Elizabeth Harriman tell us just where he was stationed, it's sort of the same time that he met Mary Elizabeth tell us that that time, that time frame, when did he meet Mary Elizabeth Harriman, And where was he in terms of his stature in the military, and where was he based at that time?

the top. But they had already joked about him being uh the c A s one day and uh they

they knew, they knew he was. He was going to be targeted for for a very senior position at one point in time, and that at that time he was he had the weekends off, so he would drive out to Alberta, another western province, and that's where he met Mary Elizabeth and he would if she was still in Calgary at the time, he would drive out every weekend in his little hatchback and spend the weekend with her and then drive back drive back to the base before

Monday again, which is a huge, huge drive. To anybody who looks at the map, that is one huge drive to do return every weekend. So he was apparently head over heels in love with Mary Elizabeth and they were engaged in the very short order, and like I said, they got married in a small art gallery in Winnipeg.

So tell us about how that worked and at what time was Williams and that he was in Tweed, And tell us where Tweet is in terms of geography.

has about fifteen hundred people. It's a very small town village actually, and Cozy Cove is just a on the outskirts of town on a lake actually on a little heart shaped bay on the small lake in town. And it's a very very tight knit community. It's since become very very volatile because there's a lot of mixed emotions there right now and a lot of politics being played out. But there's twenty twenty two houses on Cozy Cove Lane proper.

Now the community does extend a little bit further. There's dirt path that you can go through and cut into other little college of sacks. But Cozy Cove Lane itself is very small, twenty two homes. And these people used to be a very retirement age community. But these days you have it's very eclectic. You have blue collar workers, you have white collar workers, you have people who come up from the city on the weak and a very

eclectic mix of people. And Williams and his and his wife blended into that environment because they they had a big home in Ottawa and they were looking for a cottage where Russ Russell could stay during the week when he was working at the base, so he would he would often stay there through the week and then either drive back to Ottawa, his home in Ottawa to be shared with his wife, and she was she was working in Ottawa, so she would stay at that house and

he either he would go back and visit her on the weekend or she would drive down to the cottage and visit him on the weekend. But uh, he was, he was. He was there in Cozy Cove himself throughout the week, the weekdays as he was working at the base. So I'm not sorry, I go ahead.

to her as Mary Elizabeth. There was no pet names for either one of them, and he would actually tell the neighbors she would like to be addressed by Mary Elizabeth. I don't call her Mary or Liz, maryl is police caller, Mary Elizabeth. And he would use the same the same name when he when he when he'd come out, he'd be cut in the lawn and he'd he'd be lounging with a book underneath the the umbrella, and he'd say, Mary Elizabeth, would you would you like a drink? Would

you care for a drink? And the neighbors just thought that that was very unusual that that they were so formal around one another, And there was never any any public aside from the handholding when they went on walks, There was never any public displays of affection that would make one think that they were in love with one another. They were often described to me by by neighbors as appearing as though they were business partners or brother and sister.

So they they found it very unusual the way they interacted with one another.

somebody who was so far up in the military. How he how he couldn't tie his his boat properly and would let it drift out into the middle of the lake, and how he had no idea how to change blades on his riding lawn mower, so he he would often he would often help his next door in a neighbor

with with menial chores like that. And there was one time that Russell Williams was scheduled to drop the puck at a charity hockey tournament in Belleville here as well as as the as the base commander, and he went to Larry Jones and asked, how do I drop a puck? What is there to it? So Larry Jones took him with with a puck and some hockey sticks out to the garage and showed him how to drop a puck. So he he just found uh, he just found Williams to be a bit of an anomaly that way, and

uh to be quite reclusive. Well, when he didn't need your help, he he wouldn't even know he was home the house. The house would be kept dark. He would always keep his vehicle parked in the garage, The blinds would be closed, the doors would all be shut. He said. One time he heard music coming from the house and he went over to check it out because he thought somebody may have broke in and was scared when suddenly Williams popped his head up from the.

claim you're free welcome bonus. That's Chumbuck Casino dot com and lived at Chumba Lane necessary if I lost the terms of conditions eighteen plus. Hey guys, it is a Ryan. I'm not sure if you know this about me, but I'm a bit of a fun fanatic when I can. I like to work, but I like fun too. It's a thing. And now the truth is out there, I can tell you about my favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino. They have hundreds of social casino style games

to choose from, with new games released each week. You can play for free, anytime, anywhere, and each day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses. So join me and the fun. Sign up now at Chumba casino dot com. We're necessary lost in terms conditions.

and make it easier for him to sleep at night. Now, oddly, I mean a lot of the breakings occurred between the hours of one am and five am, and he'd be in a lot of these homes for upwards of two and a half hours, which in itself is incredibly strange. Usually, when somebody breaks in to steal something, you go in, you grab it and you get the heck out of there. Again,

you don't. You don't stay in the house for two and a half hours, undressing, posing in there for self portraits and their garments, lying in their beds and uh. It just completely bizarre. But the fact that he claimed to his wife to be out for for late night jogs before going to bed, it just would it just seems beyond belief that the di Spose wouldn't question you when he came back several hours later, uh, in the

wee hours of the morning. But that was his excuse, That's how he that's how he put it to his wife, was that he required these jogs to to relax and to settle in for the evening. And uh truth truth was he was when he wasn't breaking in, he was using these these jogs as a reconnaissance uh tours around the neighborhood to find out where the single women lived or where the attractive women lived and set up his agenda.

the police that investigated these break and entners. Tell us just what happened and the police reaction from the very first breaking enters that occurred in Cozy Cove.

Williams took a took a liking to the twelve year old girl and she became the target of his first break in when they were actually up in Sudbury and Northern Ontario town for a death in the family, a family illness later turned to a death. He used that opportunity to go next door and spend several hours going going through her stuff in her bedroom and taking posing in her in her underwear and on her bed, taking portraits of himself, and he returned. He returned to that

house several times. But from there it just it just continued. He preyed on other homes in the area. Uh. None of these were noted at the time or reported the place, with the exception of one. He was he was just so meticulous at that point in time that he could enter a house, he could spend hours there, he could have his fun leave with a few what psychiatrists called souvenirs or trophies, and people were none the wiser that

anybody had been in their home. There was only one incident that was reported to place in cosey Kove, and that was not given priority treatment because often the police will consider these nuisance nuisance crimes, which is the wrong thing to do, of course, because quite often, as in the case with Williams, it's a sign of a future

sexual predator basically in training. But they didn't have much reason to alert the neighborhood at that point in time because very few had even noticed that their stuff had

been disturbed. But then the breakings. Then he moved his focus to his Orleans neighborhood near Ottawa and started breaking into residences all around their home there, and the Orleans police received more complaints and they were quick to jump on things, and they even had people working under cover on the street in weight lying in wait to watch for anybody suspicious approaching homes because he was just he was amazingly adept at slipping in and getting in without

without anybody noticing, and spending like I said, hours inside and then slipping back out. And he was he was like a ghost figure. He was really getting under their skin. But from from what I hear from neighbors in Ottawa, they the police did not alert the neighbors of the neighborhood of the breakings occurring. They they they put their own man power out there to try and solve the crime, but didn't alert the neighborhood out of fear that it

would it would rile the community. And there are neighbors now who resent that because they think they probably could have helped catch him if they had known that there was fetish burglar on the loose in their community, because a couple of times they did come close to defining somebody who was prowling around, but it was dismissed at that point.

it all. So he did escalate his behaviors and instead of leaving leaving the homes away that he had found them, he would purposely leave dirt and leaves from his from his shoes, he would he would he would track Muth through the house and as he's climbing in the windows, he would leave streaks down the walls and in some cases later on he left notes, taunting notes for his victims and left photo albums out opened up to pages with some photographs missing that he had kept for himself.

And so he made a point of letting his victims know that they had been broken into. And I think it was all part of just the looking for a thrill he needed. He needed an escalation to to feel that adrenal insurge.

Police in Orleans a completely different story. Again, They were they were working with the residents at one point after failing to apprehend them himself, and the neighbors were trying to set up their own organization, their own community organization to meet, kind of like a neighborhood watch program, but they were discouraged from doing that because it may may

scare them away. They were actually used using the community, the neighborhood as as bait in some respects to lure this guy to a position where he would be caught. So it was just the was an ongoing police effort, but they did have some suspects. But there were stories of when they were interviewing the suspects as they were sure were responsible for the breakings, they get a phone call reporting another one. So he was always.

And he found an insecure or an insecure window that he was able to crawl through while she was alone in the house, and he attacked her while she was lying sleeping in the bed. He overpowered her, and basically, the long and short of it is, he did not rape her, and he promised her that he wouldn't hurt

the baby. He promised her that he wouldn't hurt her or raper as long as she she did complied with his with his demands, and his demands at that point were to tire her up, to remove her clothes, to have her pose for for for photographs for him from pretty lurid photographs, and then he would let her go.

And that's essentially all he did. He he was there for a couple of hours and took a series of photographs of her and had her pose and demeaning and dehumanizing, humiliating positions, but he did not He fondled her, but he did He did not engage in any sexual acts beyond beyond touching. So that was the first first assault, and two weeks later he repeated the the action with another another neighbor of his, who's since come forward with

with her name. It's Lorie Mascot, and she's an older lady, at least in comparison to his first victim, who was very youthful in her early twenties. The second one she was forty forty seven years old, quite an age difference, also blonde hair. But he broke in there through through

an open window as well and attacked her. She was lying sleeping on the couch she had fallen asleep watching TV, and he'd be pretty much went through the same motions with with her, having her, tying her up, blind folding her, warning her not to try to look at him, and just to obey his commands, and he would he would leave her safe afterwards. And that's that's what he did.

Was he posure and again in demeaning positions for two and a half hours, and took photo graphs, and oddly enough, he seemed caring and compassionate, whereas with the first victim, he'd promised her that he wasn't going to harm the baby. She she tried to dissuade him by saying, I've I put on some some weight from having the baby. I don't think you'll find me attractive, and he told her,

I think I think you're you're perfect. And then with the second victim, he even got her title and all and and rubbed her temples and uh got her got her water and tilern alls to to help her headache that he had given from smashing her head with his flashlight.

So quite a quite an odd behavior pattern was exhibited during these two early attacks, and that's where a lot of experts had gone wrong in believing he was what they call a power reassurance rapist, which is basically a rapist to fantasizes about having a relationship with these people, consenting relationship and they're actually trying to move in as they're as they're forcing themselves on them as a as

a boyfriend role. But late later that was that was corrected and it was revealed that this is just basically he was. He was going through basic training for for his later assaults and kind of learning, learning who he was and what his techniques were going to be by taking these couple of early early evenings just to practice tying them up and humiliating them.

They didn't believe that some of the terminology that she said he used like he had told her to roll over onto her tummy, And it was their learned opinions that people who do sexual assaults, rapists do not use terms like tummy, and they're not as polite as as what she was claiming this guy was, and that they would they generally want to instill fear that they would hurt the baby if they didn't comply, and this guy

was apparently promising that he wouldn't hurt the baby. So they questioned her story, her credibility, and they thought maybe it was just a apploy to the guilt the boyfriend with the With the second with the second sexual assault, they thought, based on their past interactions with this lady that she seemed may have been doing a copycat type of fence just to so she can get some government money on the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, and she might

have just been playing it up that way. So unfortunately they didn't take these as serious as they should have at the time, nor did they put out a warning to the community after the first sexual assault, which is now the basis of Lorie Massacot's civil suit against the opp for failure to warn the neighborhood that there was a sexual predator.

by the police. So no, no doubt she was who She was disturbed by that, but she felt she had to do her part in order for this guy to get caught, so she went along with what the police were asking of her. And but she did claim to feel very humiliated during the whole procedure.

might think. When exactly did the police finally get it through their head that they had a serious predator on the loose. When did this happen and why what crime precipitated them actually coming to their senses and realizing they had a serious predator in their midst.

for some reason it was an unusable sample. I'd like to I'd be very interested in finding out why such a substantial sample would be unfit for analysis, because they later did get DNA from from both the first sexual assault victim as well as the second, Laura Masacot, and that could have been connected readily at that point, had had they got results back from the sample that they obtained in Ottawa, and it was it just it was it's very peculiar that, based on the testimony as to

what he did at this particular residence in Ottawa, he he not only adulterated hair brushes and and garments, but he ejaculated over addresser her treasure drawers. So there should have been substantial fluid to be able to obtain the DNA analysis on So I'd be very interested in finding it more about why it was unsuitable for analysis, because that was a huge opportunity to link begin linking these crimes up. And he did get the they did get

samples from the two sexual assault victims in Cozico. But Laurie Massacot was what was put up by somebody she knows to call the police and claim it was her next door neighbor that she recognized the voice suddenly after further review in her in her head, than she recognized

the voices that of Larry Jones. And based on based on that alone, apparently there's no indication that they had anything else to go on other than other than her word, they went and searched his place while he was at hunting. One day, he got back from hunting and they were literally tearing his place apart, looking for a whole list of items from lingerie to women's under garments and computer computer discs and photographs and cameras. And he was he

was beside himself. He didn't understand what was going on.

and they were still hot on his trail. So they were wasting a lot of time, unfortunately, with with his false lead that they were given about Larry Jones.

about Lorie Massacot's description that didn't really seem to fit. Tell us a little bit about that. Well.

tall and lean either. He's he's very he's got a very pronounced ver belly, and he's proud of that as well. But apparently, when when the cops were focusing on him, he just ripped his shirt open and he said, do I look like this as fact that you've been given the description of and they had no answer for him. So it was very, very bizarre that they chose to focus their efforts on him, and as we know now, it was a lot of wasted time.

at the Air Force base. He had flown with once before and learned that she lived alone, and he found her attractive and he made a mental note of that, no doubt, And he was able to access her personnel records at the base and find out when she was away on assignments and used that to break into her house to do her little reconnaissance, make sure there were no males living there and check out the flora plan.

He always liked to acquaint himself with the floor plans of the places before he made his final attacks, so he broke in there exactly a week before the murder took place, and stole some of her under garments and posed for some pictures, once again his typical signature. And then he returned a week later and broke in, broke in through a basement window, and lurked in the basement

waiting for her to fall asleep. She came downstairs to check on her cat, or to find her cat to feed it, and he jumped sprang out from behind the furnace and and started attacking her and uh the the the assault went on for for several hours, and it was it was I presented quite graphically in the book, because later his behaviors are are analyzed as to why he why he did certain things that he did do.

But the details are very graphic, and I I had access to video transcriptions and I was at the ascensing hearing for four days and heard all the testimony, and it was it was very very graphic details. He wrapped her face up and a towel and duct taped around it, and he ended up killing her by by suffocating her with the duct table over her nose in her mouth. The scene was was quite quite brutal. She he beat her quite severely because she did put up a fight.

She tried to She tried to fight her way out of it, and as a result she suffered a lot of injuries. But oddly enough, after the it was her boyfriend who discovered her body a couple of days later called the police, and the police then told the public that there was no reason for public concern, that there was no public risk involved. They they were suspecting it as a domestic occurrence at first, but later ruled out

her ex boyfriend and her current boyfriend. And yet for two months the public was still told it's it's there's no public risk here, even though again they got DNA from Marie France's home. Why this was not immediately connected to the DNA obtained and cozy cove the DNA that was obtained in Ottawa that apparently wasn't usable all all these, all these linkages should have she should have put a fast end to this, But but the public word was that it was it was an isolated incident, no threat

to the public, and carry on as usual. Unfortunately, it was two months later that Jessica Lloyd went missing.

right past her home. Now he he claims that he saw Jessica Lloyd through a basement window exercising on her treadmill. That that is a little a little tough to buy because her house is set a couple hundred feet back from from the highway. At highway speeds, you can hardly it's to raise bungalow. To be able to see an a basement window somebody on a treadmill is a stretching credibility. I think it's much more likely that perhaps he saw her out cutting the lawn or something and took mental note.

But I believe he had been stalking her for some time before he made his move, and the night he the night he abducted her, he drove off the highway, parked his parked his truck by a roll of trees that kind of demarks the property line, just kind of blending with the darkness. It was a full moon that night, so it did cast some shine down enough that a passing police officer stopped at Jessica Lloyd's door before she had returned home. After seeing Williams's truck park there. She

she thought it was unusual. The female officer knocked on the front door to to find out if it belonged there. Nobody answered, so the officer got back in her cruiser and drove off and never followed up and never took a note of the plate. Apparently, and unfortunately that I mean the officer apparently is dealing with a lot of stress and it has been off of stress leaves since.

But that action alone could have saved could have potentially save Jessica Lloyd's life, because there was eight hours in between when she was reported missing the following day and when she was killed by Williams. But William Williams just lurked, lurked in her in her backyard, waiting for her to get home, and once she had got home, gone to her bedroom and the light was turned out. He made his move and slipped in through a rear door and

and attacked her as she lied in bed. And he put that girl through close to twenty four hours of humiliating torture and just tormented her endlessly, at one point taking her from from her own home blindfolded into his vehicle and driving her back to Cozy Cove and keeping her for the remaining time at the cottage in Cozy Cove, where he ultimately killed her.

the ones who were killed. But unfortunately there were there was There was no nothing like that, because the two that he murdered acted polar opposites to one was fire fighting back, giving it all she had to to break free, and the other one was compliant and giving him everything he wanted out of hopes that he would he would let her go in the end.

The base was literally torn up and they were doing all kinds of restructuring there. There was the temple around the base was just through the roof, So no doubt he had his share of stress, but he managed to He managed to keep ball in order and he never showed any sign. According to everyone I've interviewed, he was one of the most calm collected individuals they had ever met, and he never once appeared like he was out of control.

vehicle wrong. Two I believe they said it was in nineteen ninety nine to two thousand and one Nissan Passbinder and his was a two thousand and two Passbinder. But they did get the they did get the make of the vehicle correct, and they did get the brand and model of the tire correct. Two from the from the prince, from the from the footprint, they were able to determine

the type of boot that was that was worn. And oddly, bizarrely enough, when Williams went when he was called in for the interview at Ottawa Police Headquarters, he drove the same truck and he wore the same boots and he used it at Jessica Lloyd.

up with it again afterwards. But luckily when they did the roadside stop, which is typical investigation procedure, they waited till one week from the night that Jessica Lloyd disappeared and set it up just outside her residents to talk to people who would routinely pass by that time of night and that day of the week and see if

they had seen anything out of the ordinary. Now, their secondary purpose was to look for any vehicle that matched the years of the pass find that they were looking for and had the kind of tires that they knew belonged to the vehicle as well. So while one officer was questioning the driver, the other officer was taking a look at the wheels and the tires, and that the

model of the vehicle. And with Williams, he was one of the first stop that the at the traffic stopped there and they realized that his vehicle came very close to matching the years they were looking for in the pathfinder, and he had the right tires and he had the connections.

Murray franz Como, with the first murder victim, worked at the base the sexual assaults that happened in Cozykove where his cottage was, and Jessica Lloyd had disappeared right on the route that he used to go back and forth.

for holding her captive somewhere. So that's when they decided to call him in for an interview at the police headquarters.

and so that's the way the questioning went. And they also picked a person that was very, very experienced and potentially could get him to build a rapport with Williams, so he had a definite strategy to be able to go in and question him effectively, where at the same time they were gathering evidence via warrants to be able to further their investigation.

and making wise cracks and smiling for the camera. He became a very different man over hours of questioning by Detective Sergeant Smith. But he did he did produce. He was asked to produce the boots off his feet, and he volunteer surrendered them to Smith, and they matched up with the castings that they had made from the Jessica Lloytsch property. And he basically he put the nails on his own coffin there.

But tell us how at some point he put some things in front of Colonel Williams that he hoped would get a response that he eventually did get.

And UH Smith used that to his advantage, and he has struck up a respectful raport with with Williams. He didn't treat him like a criminal, like a like a dirty predator. He he spoke with him on a on an equal basis as as commander of military forces, and UH paid him a lot of respect that way, which obviously worked well with with Williams and then his character and his need for UH prestige and and and respect

that way. But it was the the evidence once once UH Smith resented the footprint evidence and the tire treade evidence and similarity in the vehicles and presented that to the Williams.

the Canadian military establishment. So in that, in that, in that respect, he gained Williams' trust. And I mean it did not come without with effort, without effort, and without a lot a great deal of reflection on Williams's If you've seen the video or I have read the book, there there are long periods where no words or exchange. He's just sitting there, stroking his chin and staring at the floor, no doubt, fighting with the turmoil. What what should I do? How can I make this best? And

eventually he just he just caved in. And when when Smith handed him or actually no, Smith asked where where Jessica Lloyd was, and the breaking point was Williams just looked up at him and said, got a map? And from that point forward he he let it all loose.

clothing that he had hidden. Tell us a little bit more about how extensive a confession and disclosure of evidence that the Smith was able to get from Colonel Williams.

So he he told Smith, I'll tell you exactly where everything is as long as you promised to pull your men out of there, and uh, just target specifically where I tell you. So he gave them, He gave them complete directions to where in the ventilation systems. He had computer hard drives hidden. Then on these computer hard drives, he had meticulous records of all all his breaking enters, the addresses, the dates, and the times, how long he was there, what evident or what items he took from

the home. And uh, he was just meticulous with his records keeping that way. So he basically he just he's saying he sank his own ship because they they otherwise probably would have had a real hard time connecting these these multiple break ins to him. But he just had

all the evidence there and waiting for them. He also gave them directions to to boxes that were filled with boxes and bags full of women's garments and photographs of his victims, and photographs of Jessica Lloyd along with some of her identification that he had taken that were in boxes, in unpacked boxes in the house that they had just

moved into. Oddly enough, and uh, they uncovered most of the most of the items in the Ottawa home, but he also gave them directions to places in the in the Tweed cottage where he had duct taped some eight millimeter videotapes of his attacks underneath his piano and other items in the in the Ottawa home, as well more computer gizmos and stuff like that too, and discs and files. So they had a bounty of evidence. At at that point, they had just hit the mother load. They really their

their their case was made for them. They didn't have to do any any further digging after that.

about that. But basically, unlike many many trials, and you point this out multiple homicide, the defense lawyer decided just to enter a guilty plea at the trial. It's not correct right.

his wife. There was also indication that he had evidence that they had found relating to photographs of bondage and discipline and s and m and a lot of it involving teenage girls that he wanted to keep out from the media spotlight. So it's been rumored that that was part of the part of his desire to get it all over with as quick as possible.

But he pled guilty to all of the charges that were brought against him, and it took I believe it was some like forty forty minutes to read out all the charges that that were in front of him before he played guilty. But then the Crown, the Crown Attorney, Crown Attorney's office provided four days of graphic evidence as

to his crimes and showed photographs. In the photographs that have been released that you can see in in my book, and they've been in different newspapers as well, are very tame compared to the photographs they showed in the courtroom for hours upon hours, and they did they did not show the video, but I was able to get my hands on the transcript of everything that occurred on on the videotapes, which I used to create some rather disturbing

scenes in the book. But four days of very graphic evidence, and the Crown Attorney said they were doing that so that it would be on the record, so that ever he applied for parl that it would be there and could be used to prevent that release from happening. But go ahead, uh did. There were in the in the courtroom. It was a very very tense, very emotional four days.

I mean half the courtroom were where media, as you can imagine, and the other half were were family, family members of victims and even a couple of few victims themselves and the uh the feelings were just palpable in the courtroom. I mean, the tears were constantly flowing. They had they had boxes of Kleenex on every the end of every pew for for all the family members. Family members would often they'd get up and leave before the evidence was presented as to what happened to their particular

family member. And uh Andy Lloyd himself left the courtroom with his mother just before the evidence uh began for Jessica Lloyd, and he passed within a couple of inches behind walking right behind Williams behind the plate glass of course, but I just imagining the restraint that was necessary for him to get pass within a couple of inches of the man who who who humiliated and brutalized his and killed his his his baby sister. Was just it's unfathomable.

But the courtroom was it was a very quiet courtroom U S s I from the the emotional outbursts occasionally, but everyone was just just glued to the testimony because up until that point, nobody knew that he was involved

in cross dressing. That was that was released that came to light during the sensing hearing UH and the and the hundreds of photographs that they showed those in the courtroom of him posing in very provocative poses and in in their undergarments and on their beds and doing a very unspeakable acts with their with their teddy bears and their their hair brushes and stuff like that. So it was it was very very intense four days. But Williams

did get up, to his credit, he did. He was asked by the judge if he would like to address the court with anything, and he did get up and offer a He spoke for about five minutes and and there was nothing that that was going to do to There's nothing that could help him with his sentence was automatic. There was not going to be any any form of leniency. He had been disgraced publicly and exposed for who he

really was. But at least he at least he stood and addressed the courtroom again with with with no indication that it was an attempt at being self serving, because there was nothing to be gained from it. So that's how the that's how the the courtroom testimony ended. Now, of course he was emotional in his speech, but his his tears, there were no tears coming from his eyes, and when he lifted the tissue to his face, it

was to wipe his nose and not his eyes. So as to whether or not there was true remorse remains a hot topic of debate amongst the experts, but most tend to agree that he as a sexual statist, and with the list of personality disorders that he's got, that he's not feeling remorse, and he has a little compassion for the victims and the families of the victims.

high in a public position of authority before. I mean, in order to if if you go into the history of serial killers who have been this high ranking in the military, you'd have to go back to the days of Joan of Arc to find a similar ranking officer who was exposed as a serial killer. So, I mean, just the position in society that this man had was just devastating to the community, to the country, and most

of all to the military. So obviously they went into immediate, immediate damage control to make sure that the public was aware that this was a very one off case and that the military did not create this person, and that he was just a bad guy who managed to infiltrate a very sound and honorable military community, and he could have belonged to any profession really, So it was just then, of course, if the public got concerned with whether or

not the screening methods are appropriate, that the military, and that opens up a whole letther can of worms. He's seeing that there are no psychological tests involved. From the time new recruit goes through the ranks and the sense of military ladder and becomes a colonel and he's given command of a military base, there are no psychological tests given to those candidates. So is there room for improvement? I believe there is, and so do many of the experts.

It was personal, it seemed it was professional, but it also was an incredible chapter in the military's history that they wish they didn't have to have gone through.

pretend it didn't happen, then it really didn't happen. And I just disagree with that mentality altogether, because this was a huge wake up call for all of us to realize that there's predators in our mists, and and so sometimes there are the very people that we were taught as children to run towards for help, that that that

that we are are capable of such grievous actions. So I think it's a huge wake up call, and I think we we do ourselves with the service as a society if we if we try and and and bury all all memory, all recollection all accounts of of what what he did. I think we really need to to

examine him, try and get some answers. And that's that's really what I've I've I've tackled in Camouflage Killers is to go after the whys in the house, because those are the questions that haven't been answered by I mean, it's been in Canada at least, uh there was media saturation last year, but those questions remain unanswered, and that's that was the focus, uh of my efforts over the year of digging and prying and consulting with the experts to try and figure out the the reasons for for

such a person being created and why he was willing to risk everything he had he had he had got over the years based on his his sexual verses and really, I mean it's it was fascinating discoveries and disturbing discoveries. But I think we need to examine that and if we if we pretend it didn't existed, then we're just

that we're destined to repeat history again. Not not to say we can prevent people like this from from hurting us, but the greater the understanding we have of them, hopefully the easier it is to to understand anomalies and people and bring it to bring it to the attention of those who could help them in early stages.

University of Toronto. And at the same time, it's not to beat up on the police in Canada, but the police could have done a much better job in this case. They could have done a much better job in apprehensiing apprehending Paul Bernardo. They could have done a much better job in apprehending Robert Picton. And yet, as you've just pointed out, there is no analysis of these type of people. There's no study. The story is high profile and then it just drops out like never hear about it again.

It doesn't warrant any examination or analysis. And at the same time, it seems like we can't because we don't have so much experience with these type of offenders. There seems to be just as much a lack of understanding as before Paul Bernardo appeared on the stage, or Colonel Williams or Robert Picton. So it seems that we're destined to repeat ourselves, just like you say, because we are resistant or reluctant to try to understand these type of offenders.

in communications between police forces. But again taking a look at the Williams case, there's huge evidence of I mean, the the opp who policed Cozy Cove were not enlightening the Belleville police of what was happening just up the road. And when the Belleville police we're investigating incidents down here, they weren't aware of the sexual assaults that had taken place in Cozy Cove just a half hour drive away.

They're just a huge, huge miscommunication gaps where uh, there was one one lady who was broken into and had sex toys, sex paraphernalius soul on from her. Williams left a taunting message on her computer go ahead and call the police. I'd love to show the judge you're really big dildos. And when the police came and responded to her call, they weren't They weren't aware of the sexual assaults that they had taken place just just a short

drive up the road from her. And then when Jessica Lloyd went missing, it was just a few hundred feet away from the house where the sex toys were stolen, and police were canvassing the neighborhood. She had this victim had to remind the police that she had been broken into and had sex toys stolen and taunting messages left. This is a spitting distance from Jessica Lloyd's house, so that the police just there's still they still need to

improve communications. And the whole fact that after the sensing hearing that the police and the Crown Attorney's office said we can't discuss any any more facts about this case for thirty days until the appeal timeline has been exhausted. Thirty days later, they issued a statement that nobody, none of the police officers or Crown attorneys involved in the Williams case, we're going to talk to the media anymore out of respect for the victim's families. So it's been

a big, huge media blockade. There's no more questions can be asked, no answers are there to be given, just one, one huge blue wall. And that is not how you improve police services and improve investigation techniques by bearing it along with a lot of people just hope this case will go away and all memories of it will be eradicated, but hopefully my book will make sure that's not the case.

these types of offenders. And you do a good job

at the end of the book. Some people put this near the beginning of the book, but you placed it well in the back of the book for the analysis of this person, the Colonel Williams to try to identify his personality psychological profile, and so you do an admirable job, and that is what we didn't discuss, along with some of the other things that happened after the sentencing, that people who are compelled to buy your book after hearing this interview will have the added bonus of finding out

some of this other information. It's just really, really fascinating. So I want to thank you for an incredible job putting this thing together, this book together, because the research must have been daunting. It's a fascinating, incredible story, and it's a fascinating read. It's really you're on the edge

of your seat reading this entire book. So I applaud you for what you've done, and like you say, I hope it does become a catalyst for at least some sort of study review that Canadians can realize that this is something that they need to know about, and maybe the police forces will It might be a wake up call for them as well, because we just keep getting

too many of these cases. Where with thy class and which is the American equivalent of VYCAP, we should have a system that did the police agencies communicate with each other. This is not the sixties or the seventies when they didn't have that type of technology, and yet we're seeing the same sorts of problems where just a few, like you say, just a few miles down the road, the police are unaware of crimes that could easily or should be readily connected anyway.