With the Lucky Land slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.
It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the weather's five. But we're just gonna circle up here a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. It's just these cash prizes add up quick, so I suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and start getting lucky.
Play for free at Lucky landslips dot com. Are you feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details.
It is Ryan here, and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win?
Like?
Are you at fist pumper, a wooo, a handclapp or a high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But if you want to hone in on those winning moves, check out Chumbuck Casino. At chumbacasino dot com, choose some hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com. Noe's necessary void over every boy Law you're dating Clay Lost.
You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good Evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime History and the authors that
have written about them. When the urge took hold, serial killer Larry Bright brought women back to his home. After raping and murdering his victims, He brutally disposed of their bodies. Sometimes he built a white hot fire and burned them in his backyard. Other times he dumped them along nearby roads and fields. For years, Bright had trolled the roads and backstreets of Illinois for the most helpless, desperate women
he could find. Then one woman escaped, and suddenly police were looking for bodies everywhere, trying to find out how many women Bright had really killed and what he'd done with their remains. Step by step, an all out investigation would shock hardened detectives. From interviews with women who survived their encounters with him, to the forensic search for bone fragments and pieces of burned, buried flesh, the case against Larry Bright finally closed like a vice on the man
who turned his victims into ashes. Bone Crusher with my special guest Linda Rosenkrantz, thank you very much for agreeing to this program, and welcome back to the program. Linda Rosenkrantz.
Thank you very much. Dan.
Thank you. First off, what made you decide to write about this killer and this case in particular, Well, my.
Publisher always tells me that readers like to read about serial killers, and in my research, I came across this, this case and I was fascinated. He killed you know, eight women, and I thought what would make someone do such a thing, and just got involved in it and went from there.
Now, the story of Bone Crusher is set in Peoria, Illinois, and tell us where that is in relation to Chicago, and from your research, what type of community is prior Peoria, what is it best known for? And after that you can tell us about the what's really featured in this book is also the low track that's featured in this the place where the most vulnerable women are available in Priora. So tell us a little bit about that set. The set, the scene for sure.
Period is about one hundred and sixty five miles south of Chicago. It's between Chicago and Saint Louis. And it's a blue collar community, blue collar city. Industrial. You know, industry started there. There was pork industry and flour mills, and you know, it has universities and it's always been known as sort of a typical American city. And the phrase will it play in Peoria? I'm sure folks have heard that originated there because it was such a typical city.
In the twenties and thirties, vaudeville acts would go to Peoria and try their acts out, and if it worked in Peoria, they figured it would work across the country.
Right.
So, you know, it has everything. There's affordable housing, there's great schools, colleges, medical facilities, arts. But, as I mentioned in my book, is a ced aside to the city and as a place that's just inhabited by prostitutes and drug addicts and people like Larry Bright who preyed on them.
Right now, Larry Bright is the or a central figure of this story. Tell us about his life growing up, and tell us about his mother surely and their relationship from what you could find.
Right, Well, he was born in California and then the family moved to the city in Illinois Morton and his parents' divorced when he was young and his father really wasn't in his life until he was maybe in high school. So he was really a mama's boy. She would do anything for him, and he would do anything for her. You know, he was a type of kid in high school, got in trouble, liked to party, do drugs, involved in burglaries, fights,
you know, ended up in prison. So you know, he didn't have a great upbringing at all, no one really there no real male role model anyway.
And what was from his friends that grew up with them? What type of personality other than get in trouble?
What was he?
A person that had a lot of friends despite his criminal leanings?
That was he?
Was he? What kind of personality was he?
Well?
He, I mean he had some friends, not a whole lot, but he just liked the party. They would go into the woods. There was there were various camping sites where they would just go and do drugs and drink and party and that was pretty much what his life was growing up.
How was he with women? Did he have early relationships with girls? What was his what was his relationships with women like when he was young?
And you know, no, I don't. I don't know that. I wasn't able to find that out. I tried talking, wanted to talk with his mother, but she, you know, she called me back and decided not to. So I don't. I don't really know about his relationships when he was in high school.
Now you're you're talking about Larry Bright as a young man in his twenties, early or you know, late teens. Now, what was his personality? Like you said he liked the party, but what was his what was his his idea of you know, did he go to Did he frequent prostitutes at an early age? From all the information you've got, No, it doesn't seem.
Like at an early age. And I'm not exactly sure when that started. It probably started maybe in his later later twenties. I would think after he was in prison for burglary and after he got out of prison. I think, I mean, he had a serious, serious relationship several of them as a matter of fact, and he was married and no children of his own, although one woman told him that they had a son, but the son really wasn't his and he was devastated to find that out.
So it's really unclear when when he started, because he told so many stories that it was. It just wasn't clear what to believe.
Now, you talked about drug use in partying, and we were talking about crack cocaine, So this is this is a drug problem much evolved if you're resorting to crack cocaine rather than some other drugs. So when from your research, when did he seem to be seriously doing crack cocaine and around what age and what part what time of his life was he doing this?
Again, I I think I would say it was probably well, I think he started that early on. I mean, you know, they started smoking marijuana and then I think they went into cocaine. You know, maybe in his early twenties. He was a pretty hardened drug user.
Now what did he do for employment? What was his interest in?
Well, he did sort of odd jobs. He built barns and dismantled barns and did brick work and yard work, whatever he could find. No discernible skills that I could determine.
Now, what was his relationship with his mother and where did he live and under what circumstances he win it.
He lived with his mother throughout most of his life except when he was married. They lived at one house in Illinois, and then in Peoria, and then they he lived in the base, and then when they bought the house at which he murdered the women, he was living in sort of a makeshift garage type apartment, you know, no kitchen, bathroom, one sort of one large room and a bathroom, and his mother lived in a larger house in the front.
From your From everything that you've learned in writing this book, what was the mother? What was the mother like? What was what was her life like?
Her life wasn't easy. There was there was insinuations that at one point in her life she was a prostitute, but no one ever proved that, so it's really unclear. But she seemed like a hard working, really nice woman who had no idea what her son was doing. You know, I'm not sure if it's that she didn't think he could do anything wrong, or she just just didn't have a clue about what he was doing.
Now, you said he was married to someone. What was that marriage, like, how long did it last? What was it characterized by? Did you find out anything about that marriage?
It wasn't. I don't think it lasted very long. And I'm sorry, this is what There were so many things involved that I don't remember everything. But he was abusive to the women he was with. As a matter of fact, I think one of them was pregnant and he he claims he was defending himself, but he hit her and and she had to go to the hospital. And I'm sorry, I don't remember if she lost the baby or not, but she did, right, So he was an abusive personality, so it didn't last very long.
Now, a lot of stuff starts happening in Peoria. In the low track. There is a woman named Linda Fields that was found dead on February twenty fourth, two thousand. Now, how was she pardon in Wisconsin? In Wisconsin? Okay? Now, how was she killed? And what was her relationship to Larry Bright?
And Larry dated her and her body was found She had been strangled and her body was dumped under a tree near her home on Lake Avenue, and she was just wearing a nightgown and her shoes were next to her, and Larry coincidentally or not, moved back to Peoria the same month her body was found. Now, Larry, in his interviews with police, he says he killed her. He said he didn't kill her. He said he doesn't remember. He said he has visions where he killed her, maybe their dreams.
He just doesn't know. So her death was never attributed to him.
Now you've getten a little bit ahead. So I just wanted to make sure that with this Larry Bright, was he a person at least of interest? Did police at least question him at that time?
Not at the time, No, not until he had been arrested for the murders in Peoria.
Okay, Now we'll jump ahead a little bit to March twenty first, or March of two thousand and one, or March twenty first, two thousand and one. And what occurred that day that.
I think if I remember, it was the day that Ken Gibbons heard some dirt bikers yelling something in a field and apparently they had seen they had found a body of a woman, and that was Wanda Jackson. And she was one of the first bodies found. But ultimately they could never connect Larry to her murder.
Right now, you including Bone Crusher talk of serial killer Joseph Miller as well as other serial killers. Why include Miller and other serial killers and why are they an important part of your story?
Well, Miller had killed women in Chicago, and he had been in prison for fifteen years and then got out and murdered three or four more women in Peoria in nineteen ninety three, nineteen. Yeah, he was found guilty in ninety four of murdering three Pura prostitutes, and so police were finding bodies of other women but then discovered that they were probably connected to him rather than to Larry.
So you know, they were finding finding bodies. But the reason I included other serial killers is because they all well I can't say all, but but it's sort of a they sort of do similar things and pray on similar people.
You know.
They pray on the most vulnerable, the people they think no one is going to miss, you know, So that's sort of why I include them, and also to show and Miller. Actually, it was the first time that DNA evidence was used in Peoria County to convict a murderer. To analyze the DNA in the blood and connected him to the women.
Yeah, and it also it also is real evidence that it's quite the phenomenon when you can name two or three serial killers, or there's suspicion of two or three serial killers and one.
Step into the world of power, loyalty and luck.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.
We're family, canolis and spins mean everything.
Now you want to get mixed up in the family.
Business, Introducing the Godfather at Champa Casino dot com. Test your luck in the shadowy world at the Godfather slode.
Someday I will call upon you to do a service for me.
Play the Godfather now at Champacasino dot com.
Welcome to the Family vdW group. No perch is necessary if we're privited by loss he terms and conditions eighteen plus small.
Hit a small area outside of Chicago. Absolutely, that's incredible. You know a lot more prevalent people think okay now. On July twenty seven, two thousand and three, Sabrina Pain was found. Who was she and how did she die?
Well? She they they were all African American women and she was found in a cornfield in Tremont Township in Taswell County. The bodies were disposed of in Peoria and Taswell County. And you know, she was she was like the other women on the street selling their bodies for drugs. I would say most of these women were drug addicts more so than prostitutes. They were only into prostitution to pay for their drug habits. All they wanted to do
was get high. And you know, And so she was dumped in this cornfield right now.
Not too many months later, February fifth, two thousand and four, another victim is found. And who do police find?
Barbra Williams, a gentleman who was on the way to drive his wife to work, saw the body of a woman in the snow, and he went and and called police. Is this was this the one? Yeah, she was in the snow, she was parstially clothed, her feet were in the roadway and when police were called, they they thought that maybe she had been dragged from one place to another.
Now, these women, uh, so far have been strangled.
Yes, all of them?
Is there so far?
Is there anything that the killer left is in terms of how we strangled them? Is there any evidence of is there any similarity so far with any of these victims other than their black prostitutes from the low Track.
No No Now.
Two weeks later, incredibly, Frederica Brown is discovered and who is she and how is she discovered?
They found her again lying in the snow in Peoria County, but a man driving an all terrain vehicle found her near Hannah City and she had been strangled. She was dumped about thirty feet from the roadway. She was wearing a coat and jeans and a shirt and they didn't they they weren't sure if she had been walking in the area, but she had been there for a number
of months. They thought she was there for a while, and she had lived with her boyfriend who was also addicted to drugs, and she had three children who were in foster care. And you know, another person with a hard life. She'd been arrested for prostitution, battery, robbery and another woman ultimately, like Wanda Jackson. Did we get to warn to Jackson. I'm sorry, but Larry was not connected
to this. They couldn't connect him. Police think ultimately they think he murdered her, but he never confessed to her. He never confessed to two of the women. So the police found ten women over this period of time, but Larry only confessed to murdering eight of them.
Now by this time, you know, we're into February two thousand and four, and there's been these a bunch of victims, and is what is the what is the press's response? Is there? Is it? Is it high profile? What is going on in Peoria in terms of the media and what's going on with the police. Is this paskporce set up yet?
The task forces? Task force isn't set up yet? You know. The obviously the more bodies they find, the more they're thinking maybe these are connected. And and I'm sorry, but I'm just I'm not I think the media obviously or not. I think that they're sort of involved in this. But but there's not a lot of media attention. If I recall at the moment, they were obviously newspaper articles in the Peoria Journal Star, you know, each time a body was found, but no one was connecting them yet, right, and.
The police certainly weren't so right. Okay, So we jumped ahead to August twenty second and a woman named Laura Lawler is found and who is she and how is she found? Is there any is it similar or is there some differences.
Differences Laura. Larry disposed of eight of his victims with intact bodies. Four of them, including Laura, he burned and so police didn't find her on August twenty second. She was reported missing on August twenty second, but police didn't
find her body because there was nobody to find. Larry built a fire in his backyard and burned these women, and then after the fire died down, he would take what remained of their bones and crush them, hence the name bone crusher, and then he would scoop up the bone and ash in pails or buckets actually big frosting buckets that his mother got when she worked at a local supermarket, and disposed of the remains at various places
around Peoria and Caswell County. He disposed of some of the bones in his grandmother's yard, so you know, ultimately confessed and said that he strangled her and burned her body and then just dumped the remains. So police didn't know about her at this point, right, Okay, missing?
Okay, Now there are some people that come forward and very interesting characters so that the police have some idea who Larry Bright is because he's not on their radar initially. What happens there are some characters Vicky Bomar, there is another woman named Tiffany Hughes, who's who's Vicky Bomar.
By the way, Vicky Baumar was a woman. She's ultimately the woman who testified against Larry at At in court at a hearing and and they got an indictment. He kidnapped her, raped her, took her back to his house, probably would have done to her what he did to the rest of them, murdered her. But she locked herself in the bathroom and he tried, he tried to get her out, and finally he said, if you just come out,
I'll take you home. And she had didn't have much choice. Now, what it seemed was when the women, the women who fought the hardest, he let go. For whatever reason he you know, maybe it's just I don't know. I can't get into his head. But she got away and she he said, or right, I'll take you back. But when they went, when they were walking to his truck, she saw a neighbor of his and she ran over to the woman and said, you know, he just tried to
rape me. He wanted to kill me. And the woman said, let me call the police, and she said, no, just take me home. And so Vicky, she didn't tell anybody right, didn't go to the police. But someone but after all these murders started happening, someone went to the Tiffany went to the police. At well, Tiffany went to the police and said that she another woman she also had been
raped and kidnapped by Larry. And then someone went to the police and said, you know, maybe you should talk to Vicky Boemar because she told me the same thing happened right now.
Who's Tiffany Hughes.
Tiffany Hughes was another woman who was taken by Larry and her story appeared in the Peoria Journal Star, and so, you know, she said, I was kidnapped by this guy, you know, he tried to kill me, and so they
ran her story. And after Vicky Boehmar's friend, I think, saw that story, they went to police and said, or just hearing more about the murders, the friends said, you know, you should talk to Vicky because she said the exact same thing, you know, but none of the Vicky didn't go to the police initially because she had a warrant out for her arrest and so she was afraid, afraid to go because she was afraid she would be arrested.
And in that interim there were other victims. We didn't we'll go through some of the other victims, but it was Shirley en Trap Carpenter. Yeah, there was Tamara Tammy Walls. Right. There is also the everything really seems to get started after Linda Neil's discovery and then the task force tried to link her death with five other black prostitutes from in Tazewell County area. Right, I'll tell us a little bit about that task force. I just mentioned it. It's
after Linda Neil's Audi's discovery. Tell us a little bit about the task force, what its purpose is, what they think they're going to see, And they do have a they are trying to link these murders together, or they think they can.
Well I think I think right, I think that they thought at this point that that they they probably were connected. So there was a task force that consisted of members of the Peoria County Sheriff's Office, the Peoria Police Department, in the Taswell County Sheriff's Office, as well as some people from the Illinois State Police. And this is all they would work on. They got some one thousand tips into the hotline and they would rank the tips, you know, serious,
not so serious, something we should look into. And that's all they worked on with these cases. And in fact, Larry called in a tip on himself, well, because he wanted to stop and knew he couldn't do it on his own, and he called and said, you know, I think you should look into Larry Bright. He's probably the
one doing this. And what did do as a result of that, Well, well, it was around the same time I think that that Vicky had had told them about him and she and she picked his photo out of a you know, a photo array, and so he was already on their radar screen and and they arrested him for kidnapping Vicky.
Now, who were Tyresia and Terracita? And what did they say to police?
Two more women also who were held by Larry and raped against their will, and and one of them, as a matter of fact, actually it was Tiffany who had who had gone with Larry, and and she was with Linda Neil and Larry drove by and didn't remember her, but she remembered him, and she said to Linda, don't go with him. You know he's crazy. But Linda, she's not sure if Linda ever did. But the next day is when they found her body. So it's it's obvious
that she did go with him. But the other women were also taken by by Larry and and and talked to the police. You know, people one person or another would say, you know, I think you should talk to so and so, or I think you should talk to to so and so. I'm sorry, I've just got this a little confused. Teresia was was a friend of Brenda Irvings, whom we haven't gotten to either. She she was in prison and she told she went. She said she wanted to talk to police, and she gave them the names
of people who might be involved with these murders. But but they weren't. So I really apologize because it's just it's so hard to keep all these straight. But but ter Teresida was taken by She was taken by Larry when he lived at the house on his first no, second house, second house that he went to his to his house and and no, I'm sorry again. He took her when he was living on McClure Road, not where he murdered all the other women, Not where he murdered
the women. And he brought her to his basement and raped her and and then and let her go. He was living in his mother's basement at that point. And he would tell these women, and he told her too that he was a police officer. And so you know, he told him not to go to police, go to the police, because no one would believe them because he was a cop, right, no one would believe what they had to say.
Now, as a result of speaking with all these women, Teresa Teresia and Terracita, Vicki Bomar and Tiffany Hughes and other people as well as some of Larry Bright's friends from the past, what happens on November eleventh? And what do they try to charge Larry Bright with? Initially, they well.
They charged him with kidnapping Vicky Boemar. That's how they first arrested him.
Was also step.
Into the world of power, loyalty and luck.
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.
With family, canoli's and spins mean everything.
Now you want to get mixed up in the family.
Business, introducing the Godfather at Champa Casino dot Com. Test your luck in the shadowy world at the Godfather Slodge.
Some day I will call upon you to do a service for me.
Play the Godfather now at Champa.
Will come to the.
Family vdW group, No perch, just necessary. I believe were privateed by loss he terms and conditions eighteen less.
So some drug charges, possession of a controlled substance.
That's I'm sure, I just don't remember. I'm sorry, but yes. But but they arrested him mainly for her, you know, for kidnapping her, and then when they searched his house they found drugs.
I see. Okay. Now, now the thing is is that they're searching his house and but they are trying to question Larry Bright. Now how does he does he cooperate? What is his demeanor? How does how does Larry Bright respond to being picked up and arrested for anything?
He was calm, He was glad. I really do think he was glad. He wanted it over. He couldn't stop doing it himself. I mean, all his his interviews with police. I looked at all the tapes, the DBDs. He was joking with them, you know, laughing like they were friends. I think he was just relieved that it was over.
Now, what does what does AIDS have to do with this story?
Well, Larry thought he had AIDS. He he was involved in a relationship with a former prostitute who had AIDS and he thought that she had given him AIDS. And and there was speculation that he was murdering these other women to sort of in revenge for what she did to him. Right, I'm not sure that was true. But it turns out he did not have AIDS. He was tested finally when he had when he was arrested, and he did not have AIDS at all. So did he
believe he did? I think he believed he did. But you know, and he never said he was murdering them because this woman, Ernestine had given him AIDS. That was just pure speculation.
I see. Now, how does he like again? How does he does he cooperate or not cooperate with cooperates?
Yeah, I did it, And I'll take you to the bodies and the remains, not the bodies they had the four bodies. I'll take you to the remains. And so you know, they drove around with them. They stopped at McDonald's or burger king and got him lunch, you know, fries and burghers, and and they he drove them to all the sites. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Sorry. Part of the agreement was though, that that they not search his mother's grounds, and the police cooperated.
Well, he's no, not so much the mother's ground. He didn't care about anything else except this fish pond that he had built for her. It was an elaborate fish pond and it had really expensive i think coy in it. And he was so concerned, you know, he said, don't don't well, don't dig up the pond please, you know, she didn't know anything about this. There's nothing there. And and so they said, fine, they wouldn't dig it up.
Ultimately they had to, and they they brought the fish to some wildlife preserve or something, because he was really worried about about the fish.
Sure, that's that's nice of them, compassionate of them, you know, after all. So so he's cooperative, he doesn't he doesn't ask for a lawyer right away, or he's he's he wants.
To tell the other and she got him a lawyer, but Larry really didn't do The lawyer said, don't talk. But Larry would you know, Larry would send notes from jail to the cops and say I want to talk and they said, but lawyer says not to and he said, I don't care, and he would just sign away his rights and talk to them, tell them everything they wanted to know.
So what did he what did he all and what did it all entail? What did he tell police? What's the details that he gave, what's the motive he gave, what are the what did he tell police in the end? And how many murders did he confess to?
Okay, well, he said it all. It all went back to the crack cocaine. And after a while he started hearing voices when he wasn't When he wasn't smoking the crack, he was fine. But once he did that, he'd hear the voices that said kill, kill. And initially, you know, he would just go out and not he wouldn't go out looking for anyone. He would just pick someone up,
and then the voices would say killed. But then after a while he did what he he went hunting, and he knew from the outset that he was going to get someone and murder someone. And he just said it was the voices and he couldn't stop the voices, and that's why, but he wanted it.
To stop, Okay, And how many does he admit? How many he.
What he admitted to and what he was ultimately convicted of are two different things. He also admitted to murdering two or three women in other parts of the country. He he got a settlement. He heard his back at work, and he got like a ten or fifteen thousand dollars settlement, and he went on a cross country trip and he went to Arizona and some place I don't remember where exactly where his father's family had come from. His father
had since passed away from cancer. And he claimed he murdered women in Arizona and a woman in whatever state it was, I just don't remember, and another one I think, either in Oregon or Washington. But the police could never you know, they can't. The police in Peoria contacted the police and those other states, but they could never find anything to connect Larry to anything. So I don't know, you know, was he did he make it up? Did
he really do it? It's very unclear. And as I said, the sheriff thinks that Wanda Jackson and Frederica Brown died at the hands of Larry Bright. But Larry only confessed to eight women, not those two. And he kept say you know. They kept saying, well, you know, or he kept saying, if I murdered them, why wouldn't I tell you. They also they're not sure about Linda Fields, as I said, because he just kept saying, Oh, I had a dream
I did it. I didn't do it. But they think he didn't confess to her because he would have had to have gone to He was afraid of going to Wisconsin because he didn't want to be tried there. I'm not sure if they would have sought the death penalty there or it was going to be far from his mother. And the police kept telling him, look, we have eight they have won. You're going to be here, so don't worry about it. But he never he never confessed ultimately
to murder her. He said, yeah, I think I did. No, I didn't. I'm not sure. So he never really confessed.
No.
He so he admits they ate, right, and then how does how does the judicial system proceed from there?
Well, there's a couple before we before we go to the judicial system that there's an interesting as I mentioned, he burned eight bodies and dumped for intact, which is is very unusual. Serial killers usually do one thing. They usually, you know, just kill and dispose of they're victims the same way. And so police thought that Larry had some kind of there was some strange reason behind this, but in Larry's mind, it was all very logical. So the police said, why did you not burn these four women?
And he said, because my mother was having company, my grandmother was coming over, and I couldn't light the fire, so it was just a matter of convenience, you know. He that he burned the bodies. But it was also unusual that nobody smelled anything the neighborhood, you know, his
mother said. They asked his mother and she said, yes, you know, I smelled something strange, but he told me it was plastic, you know, and he was always burning leaves or brushes, so no one in the neighborhood thought anything of it either.
Incredible, so I'm sorry. So there was a few areas, you say, There was a one burn area, and then there was where he dumped the ashes was by the kickapoo coumera.
He dumped them in various places, you know, As I said, someone his grandmother's yard, in his grandmother's yard, places that he had gone to as a child, you know, when he was younger, when he partied as a teenager, places that he knew well. And he you know, he would drive his car and then you know, pack the car and take these buckets and and just just dump the remains the way. And then in one place he threw the buckets in the stream.
You know.
There was really no rhyme, no reason to where he decided to dump them.
Yeah, so it must have been a horrific job for the anthropologist and the forensic people to go through the regard.
Oh my gosh, it was. And the only they were only able to connect a jaw bone. I think it was to Barbara Williams. Actually no, I think it was Tammy Walls. She had had had surgery and so that's that was the biggest piece of bone that they found. I mean, just ash, you know, literally the bone. There was no way they could identify any of the other bones through DNA or or otherwise.
Now there was a there was initially that that Larry Bright wanted a deal, wanted he wanted to he wonderfully guilty, but he also wanted some kind of deal.
Well, no, he wanted to plead guilty and the judge wouldn't let him. He said, I just want to say I did this. He wanted the death penalty off the table, but that wasn't the reason that he couldn't plead guilty. The judge wouldn't let him because he wanted to make sure he could that he conferred with his attorney. He wanted to make sure he got the right advice. He tried twice to plead guilty and the judge wouldn't accept his plea right, and then there was talk about a trial.
You know, he decided he was going to have a trial, and then ultimately he decided he wanted to spare his mother all that pain, so he you know, he said, you know, I'm going to plead guilty again. And the DA talked to the families and said, you know, he wants the death penalty off the table. He'll plead guilty. Are you willing to go along with that? And they were, you know, they said we want him punished and life in prison, you know, was okay with them.
Yeah.
I thought it was remarkable that the district attorney actually was seriously considering what the family wanted in this respect, I thought that was pretty admirable, right, kind of unusual, so absolutely incredible. So so basically the trial wasn't wasn't much because it's just there.
Was no trial. He just pleaded guilty and and the DA just went through you know, ea hearing.
Right, yeah, so so, and what was the attendance like at the trial that some of the victim's family show up?
Some of them did right at the hearing or the set hearing, sure, right, yeah, yeah, some some showed up. I'm not sure all of them did. I couldn't. It was hard to track them down. I talked to a couple of families, but I dialed more disconnected numbers than I think I've dialed in my whole life. You know, it was just the kind you know, not all their families lived the kind of life the women did. But
you know, they're they're they're not well off people. They move a lot, they don't have phones, and it was really hard to get in touch with all of them. I wanted to, you know, and I also wanted to talk to Larry's mother, but she she just you know, she said, let me think about it, and and she you know, she just she just couldn't. I want to. I want to say something. And I'm not sure if you or your listeners will think there's something wrong with
me the saying. But I saw all the the all his tapes when he confessed, and and and in the beginning, he said to the police, I want to make I want to make a tape for my mother. I want to talk to her and I do that. And they said, yes, they said, but anything you say can be used against you. And he said that's fine. And so they went out of the room and he made this tape. And I have to tell you of this was my fourth book. He's the fourth murderer that I've written about, and I
truly believe that he was remorseful. He was the only one of the four murders that I've written about that I think showed an ounce of remorse. I think he was truly sorry. And I actually felt myself responding to him in some odd way, you know, I thought this, he's deep down. I think he was a really nice guy. As strange as that sounds. He murdered eight women, but he wasn't. I don't he didn't want to do it. I really don't think he wanted to do it, and
I and it's drugs. It really was the drugs. I believe.
Well, I don't know if I can agree with you, but you were you were there, so you you and you know the thing is, I know what you're saying, because I think this is an unusual case because he
really did want to unburden himself and he didn't. He wasn't didn't seem like a publicity hound with this no, and he you know, he when you're trying to plead guilty and you're getting advice, I mean, it does show something because it's sure certainly is unusual for even the most guilty people to do what he was willing to do so right, I don't know about voices in the head, but something compelled him to do what he did over and over again.
But I believe but he was truly sorry. None of the three, the other three that I've written about, one of whom was also a serial killer, two which was spouse on spouse murder, I don't. I don't think any of them were sorry. They were sorry they got caught, but they were not sorry for what they did. I think he really was sorry. I mean, I don't know what, that doesn't do much good for anyone, but I could feel that from him.
Yeah, it's well, I mean, I don't know blame it on the drugs, but certainly, certainly he was on those drugs, and certainly drugs have a profound effect on certain people. You know, he didn't come forward necessarily, but there is some merit to cooperating with police, at least for the victims, showing, you know, trying to show them where the disposal sites were. Didn't have to do that if he was pure evil.
So right, and as I mentioned, he did call in a tip on himself. Yeah, he could couldn't come forward because he was really he didn't want to hurt his mother. That was you know, he felt she didn't deserve a son like him, and he didn't want to cause her any pain, and he thought that that was a way to do it. But he was sorry. He was sorry for murdering the women. He was sorry to their families, he was sorry that she had to live with what he did. He really was sorry.
And you saw that. And see the thing is, if you saw it later on as one thing, it could be possibly contrived. But if you saw it in the confession, to police itself.
In the and in the beginning in one of his first confessions, right, yeah, yeah, absolutely right. It wasn't after it wasn't contrived, and it was just him and the video camera, and he was talking to his mother and it was as if she was sitting across from him, and and and he was sobbing. I mean, and you know, none of it was contrived. He was truly, truly sorry. And I know your listeners will probably think, you know,
I should be in a looney bin or something. But I felt that motion from him, you know, I knew, I knew that deep down, this man just was so sorry for the pain he caused everyone, you know what.
I thought it was another interesting aspect of this story. And I guess it's just a bit of a commentary. But it's the last few stories that I've talked about on my program, starting with the Stevie Cameron and on the Farm about the Robert Picton in British Columbia. It's almost the same story of three or four of the last stories, in that you have a sub sect section of people that are the most vulnerable, the prostitute that is plying their trade on the street. These were all
these weren't young women. These were older women, which I found interesting as well. But they're they're increasingly even more vulnerable among this group of people because they're willing to go into a car for drugs. They have this intense need for the drug and it's usually crack or something like that, and so they'll take even more increasing risks. And people always wonder, well, how did they rack up
this these these big numbers? If these women were disappearing, and it's some of their friends and co workers, and and really what it was is that people are that desperate.
Right and and and he and he knew that actually because he would say to them. He wouldn't say, you know, let's have sex or whatever. He would say, do you want to get high? And they did, and that's all they wanted to do. Yeah, And you know, I mean, women were disappearing, but it didn't matter to them. The need to get high was so great that that they had to do it. They couldn't stop.
Right now, Larry Bright, what what was his sentence? What did he receive?
So he's life in prison, never getting.
Out, He's never going to get out, and his appeals have been exhausted.
He no that was part of it. There were no appeals, that's right, right, that was part of the part of the deal.
I thought that was interesting too. Just again save some people because you'd really it felt like you get any closure. That's that's a misnomer. But I mean for appeal to just hang around and hang around. I know the case I was just involved with. The appeal just finished. It's you know, seven and a half years later.
So well, my first book in nineteen ninety eight, the murder happened. His appeals just ended like a month ago.
Yeah, you know, I mean, and.
They're actually there may be one more. I don't know. You're right, but he didn't he didn't want to appeal. He you know, he just said no, I you know, I just want this over. I did it. I want to plead guilty. I just want it over.
Yeah. Incredible. And was there any real response from them? I know the mother and Larry were very close. Did she do some media? Is there any update on her? Did she?
I don't, I don't know, you know, she did. She talked to the media after, and you know, people were following her when she was going to visit him. I think I think it was hard on her, you know, and and I felt really badly for her when I talked to her. You know, she asked me what the title of my book was going to be, and I, you know, I was like horrifi that I actually had to tell her. You know, she she didn't do anything.
You know, she thought she was raising her kids the right way, but you know, she had no control over what happened, so it wasn't it wasn't easy for her obviously.
What you know, you bring up an interesting, you know point, the conversation you had with his mother. What did she say when you know, it's almost like the Capoti moment, when you know, the the inmate finds out what this with the story with the title of the book is called, you know, in cold Blood now bone Crusher. Obviously, there's not much, doesn't seem to be any seemingly seeming sympathy for her son. What did she say? How did she didn't say a word?
She didn't say a word about it. You know, she just asked me what I was going to call it? And I hesitated a long while and then just told her. She didn't say anything. But I have to tell you, I said to her, I think he must have been a good guy, and she said he was, you know, and there wasn't much else I could say to her.
Yeah, it's always the classic, the the mother is still visiting the killer's son in prison, or at least keeping course. It's amazing the mother's you know, loyalty and love never ends, you know, right for most of these people anyway, No, incredible, of all the serial killer stories that I've covered, it's incredible how many families still support their brothers and sisters and people accused of these who are in this crime.
Right.
Incredible. So what are you working on now we we were talking earlier.
Yes, I've just started my fifth book. It's called The Killer Debutante. It's about a woman named Kelly Cannon from Nashville who was a debutante growing up, you know, cheerleader, debutante. She had gone to medical school. She married a doctor and he was divorcing her and threatening to take the kids,
and she wasn't going to let that happen. So she strangled him with the court of a cell phone charger and put they were separated at this point, and dragged his body into a closet and put this big dresser in front of it and left it for the poor maid to find two days later.
Wow, and when do you when's the rival date for this book? Oh?
Probably they usually it's usually like every two years. I've just started this one, so I would say a year and a half to two years that one will be out.
Right now, Well, and where are you located in America?
I'm just outside Boston, about thirteen miles west of Boston.
And have you in your books have you covered anything from that area?
Yeah? My first book. As I was mentioning that the person whose appeal just ended was a guy, a doctor, world renowned alogist, Dirk grinded her and he murdered his wife in a in a park near their home. He had sort of this seedy life. He was visiting prostitutes and having an online sex life, and apparently she found out and was going to divorce him, that's the theory, and so he murdered her, and it claims he didn't, but the evidence is just absolutely convincing that he was guilty.
So he I think, you know, one of the last of his appeals anyway, was he just denied a new trial about a month ago.
Right now, just for our audience, sometimes curious that some people have asked me to, you know, ask this question, how did you get involved in true crime in the first place.
I used to read and rule all the time, all right, and I'm a writer. I'm a reporter. I'm a writer. I've been a reporter since the late eighties. And one day I said, I can do that. And so I found that case I was just telling you about. I put together a proposal, I found an agent and she found my publisher. And this all happened in a month. Wow, And I hadn't written a word. I had something else I could show the publisher, and so we signed a contract. And then I went, oh my god, I have to
write a book. And so you know, and I've been with them ever since, and this is you know, now I'm starting my fifth book.
So that was still a pinnacle Kensington exactly. Yep, right, oh yeah, great, great, great company. I've seen the company really rise in the last few years as well. In the last about five years. You see, Saint Martin's Press was really big, and you know, there's a five majors, and then Kensington comes along and is competing with everybody. Really is is a close number two. I see in
the bookstores. It's all Kensington, right, some of the really good authors are now getting published with them, and they're covering some of the best stories. And I really like, you know, their criteria, you know, I mean two crime writers want to true crime readers want to read the most sensational story. So that's what Kensington does.
So absolutely, you know, it's interesting that the criteria you know, they sent me, you know, it has to be only certain parts of the country, you know, and it just and like serial killers, teenage murderers, kids you kill. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Well there's a you know people what Like I asked the question once. I said, you know, if you really looked at the crimes that were in cold Blood, you know, the crimes itself, especially these days, wouldn't it wouldn't be that high profile, just just just a you know, an you know, escalation of crime in general. That it's not like it's not an interesting story, but it is a less shocking story. Stuff like that goes on almost every day now.
Right, exactly right. But I think it was the way Capodi wrote it. It was sort of a I mean, he fictionalized it a lot, so I think it was his writing style that propelled that book as well.
Well, I think you know, what would happen is is something that wouldn't happen.
Now.
You can imagine that if you had a publisher that was willing to give you enough money to hire a really good lawyer to sustain the person's life now that they had the death penalty that they were gonna they were gonna hang. So he had enough money from the publisher, and he was such an esteemed author that the publisher paid for the legal representation, and then also he paid the warden so he could be there almost every day,
so he had unprecedented access a right. Plus plus he paid for the guy's lawyer so that he would stay alive and he could befriend him in a way that you and I could never do. And then he fictionalized everything. So you know, it's it's I think it's a good lesson in marketing. I mean, you know, he how's a true crime with some of the devices that he did. It's a great book, of course, but you know he he pent the rules and no one else got to do the same, so right.
And I don't think that would ever happen.
Now, No, No, I think you have to take notes now and he was ninety seven percent recollection rate. Nobody's going to take your word on that, right, but at least, you know, at least it got true crime at that time, like in sixty five, I guess a popular genre all of a sudden, so you can you know, we can always thank.
Them for that. That's absolutely right.
Yeah. Well, I want to thank you very much Linda for coming on my program once again. Another great book and another great interview. We've been talking about your latest, uh true crime classic soon to be classic, I'm sure, bone Crusher. And I just want to tell our audience you've been listening to Linda rosen Krantz and her book, Bone Crusher. Go out and get it. He destroyed their
lives then their bodies, Bone Crusher. Thank you very much, Linda, have yourself the good evening, you too, bye, Thank you, thank you, bye bye. You've been listening to program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them, with your host Dan Zepaski, have a good evening,