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You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about him Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Good evening. Summertime in Florida, tourists flocked to the subtropical paradise for its beautiful beaches, abundant sunshine, and the magical allure of Disney World. For one midwestman mother and her two teenage daughters, a trip to the Sunshine State seemed like a dream vacation, but the promise of a sunset cruise by a friendly stranger turned that dream into a deadly nightmare. This is the true story of that tragic encounter and the hunt for the Sunset Killer, a modern day American Monster.
The book for.
Featuring this evening is American Monster, The Search for the Sunset Killer with my special guest, journalist and author and attorney JT. Hunter, welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. JT. Hunter.
Thanks Dan Grief to be back here again talking with you.
Thank you so much for this congratulations on this new book. Incredible. Let's go to as you do right in the very beginning of your book and your prologue, we go to Tamarack, Florida, and please find a woman nude on the street, or if someone finds a woman nude on the street positioned, she's identified as Ebalis Bergeriice, a student at Broward Community College. What is the condition of the body and some of the circumstances that they find this woman that day?
Yeah, this was in nineteen ninety. This was a few days after Thanksgiving, November twenty seventh, nineteen ninety. A couple guys that had been out in their weekly bowling league were driving back home in a residential neighborhood. You know, it's kind of a typical middle class neighborhood. And as they made a turn at night here, their headlights illuminated
something laying in the road up ahead of them. And when they got a little bit closer, they saw that it was a woman and she was laying in the street. They stopped, jumped out of the car, went over and got closer, and she looked to not be alive anymore.
And the body looked as if it had been positioned there on purpose, such that rather than you know, just kind of haphazardly being tossed out of a car or something, the body had been been propped so that it was in kind of a you know, a doggy style position at the head down and the the buttocks up, and you know, appeared to have some uprasions and some marketing vindicating that, you know, foul play had had occurred for sure.
What did authorities find out about heavy Virgicallease and what where she was working? In details of how she met her fate, well Evie.
She she was known as ev to her friends. She had been working her normal job at the Sawgress Mills mall, which was in the nearby city of Sunrise, Florida, and she had as usual closed the store that she worked at and apparently had walked out to the mall parking lot with one of her co workers, as it again was kind of her typical routine, and when she got to the parking lot there at the mall, her she saw that her car's tires had been slashed. Two of the tires on her car had been had been slashed,
so both the tires were flats. You know, she was stuck there, and by this time her coworker had walked off to her own car and had had left, so Evie was there by herself. And at some point shortly thereafter she was taken from the parking lot by an unknown person. And that was the night of November twenty six. You know, it was probably about ten thirty, almost eleven o'clock at night at that point. And then her body was discovered the next night.
And police also found that there was another attempt at that same parking lot, but that woman had called her husband and her husband had picked her up. But the intentional flattening of the tires in that parking lot didn't they.
Yeah, exactly, there had been the same sort of situation had occurred to another young woman's vehicle as well, and you know that woman was similar to the ev and you know in age and body type and those sort of characteristics.
Yes, when you say at the time, you write that there was no suspect DNA at that time. They did a reenactment on television but there was no real response. Everybody's just summed it up. What a tragic loss with an angelic woman, angelic girl. You go to the in the book right away, you introduced the Sunshine State and you talk about the three major cities of Tampa, Clearwater, in Saint Petersburg in it being the second largest metro area in Florida, has a lot of water, over four
hundred square miles of water. And we go to June fourth, nineteen eighty nine, and three bodies are found by three different voters. Tell us the condition of the bodies and what the Coastguard finds after these voters tell them about these bodies, what's the condition, what do they find?
So about six or seven months before the incident with Evie in Sunrise, as you said, in June of eighty nine, there was there were some boaters out in Tampa Bay there in the Tampa Bay area, and on this particular day they came across some gruesome discoveries. Three bodies ended
up being found in the bay. The first one was found about nine o'clock in the morning, nine nine thirty in the morning, a you know, a boater was coming back from a trip and he saw something in the water floating ahead, and he got closer to it, he saw that it was it was the human body floating face down in the water. He of course called for help and the coastguard was dispatched to the site and they ended up pulling a very decomposed floated body from
the water. It was a white female, you know, about one hundred pounds, and she was nude from the from the waist down. She just had a T shirt on basically, and her her hands were bound with rope anchor anchor type rope, and her ankles were also bound as well, and she had some pieces of great duct tape on her chin, apparently having you know, been fin gagged with the duct tape and having having slid down during the
decomposition process. And the coast guard officer that that found this individual described it as as really being a really gruesome thing to see and described as the horrible look on her face that she had, you know, that was frozen there in death, you know, indicative that she had
this really terrifying experience. And shortly after that first body was found, not even maybe half an hour an hour later, another voter came across another body, a different part of the day a couple miles away, and this was another female, same sort of condition, bloated, decomposed, hands and ankles, bound with this rope material and again again duct tape as well.
And a significant thing about these these two bodies as well, was that they had been they had been tied to what turned out to be these concrete blocks, like these home construction cbs kind of cinder blocks. They had been tied to these blocks to weigh them down. They didn't discover that with the first body because the block wing
the first body down was was stuck underwater. Somehow. They couldn't they couldn't get it dislodged no matter how hard they tried, so they ended up having to just cut the rope, and you know, later attempts to try to find that that that block were unsuccessful as well by divers. But but with the second body, they were dated in fact, have the concree body block attached to the rope. When they retrieved the body, they were able to bring that up. So so that was a common characteristic as well. So
that was the two bodies. And then you know, half an hour maybe half an hour later or less from the second body, a third body was reported, and you know, again the co start with despatched, the sin and pain sort of situation. Another another female, another white female, another floated decomposed body, hands and ankles, bounds, gagged, uh, concrete block,
every everything the same as well. So really a really really gruesome discovery of these three bloated bodies floating out here in Tampa Bay on it, you know, and otherwise it's really nice summer day.
You're right that because that they were in the water, any hair fibers, fingerprints, semen, or any other trace evidences washed away. And so the effort to identify victims, they have a press conference, they display the jewelry found, and then they have the medical examiner do the autopsy. What's the what's his result? And then how do they what do they what can they tell and what can't they tell about what happened before or after death concerning these three bodies, three people.
Exactly as you said, because the bodies have been in the water for so long, the you know, the the water emotion of the water had washed away any sort of you know, forensic evidence that typically might be found at a crime s team. So it made it you know, much more difficult case was just from the get go for the for the police, as far as that goes. Was in the medical examiner, you know, found the cause of death the stain for each of these three victims.
To fix you up for all three of them. And of course, you know, drowning is a form of that. But the bodies had been in the water for such a long period of time, which the medical examiner estimated they had been in the water two to three days before they were found. It was it couldn't be, you know, determined definitively that drowning was the actual cause of death
versus strangulation as the cause of death. So that sort of circumstances of how they died kind of had to be pieced together a little bit later on as the investigation went forward.
In the investigation, that moves forward four days after the body's found, you right, if there's the first lead. This is June eighth, they made at a day's in noticed the beds not slept in for about a week and nothing used like the towels. So and she had read about the three bodies in the newspaper and told her manager, So from that, what do police determine about these bodies, these people found.
Yeah.
So so several days after the bodies were found, you know, police really didn't have anything to go on. They still had these unidentified bodies, uh, you know, Jane one, Jane two, Jane Doe three. No leads at all had no idea who these people were. But then, but then several days later, on the on the eighth of June, a made as you said, at at a hotel at a day's in off of the Court and Cambil Causeway there in the
Tampa Bay area. You know, noticed this one particular room at the hotel there hadn't been it didn't seem like it had been used for quite some time. That you know, the people that had had taken the room had had checked in. Obviously their belongings were there in the room, but the beds didn't appear to have been used. And you know, the whole time they in the subsequent few days and the room appearance hadn't really changed in those
those days those days as well. So finally, at this point, this this particular maid who had you know, read something in the newspaper about the bodies being found, three bodies being found, as you mentioned, you know, got suspicious, rightfully so, and reported it to the general manager of the hotel there, who who you know, checked out the room himself and
then notified the police. And the police were you know, showed up to the scene obviously and came to the can to the room there and and checked it out. And they were able to determine obviously from the hotel registry who the room had been rented out to, and it turned out it was rented out to a mother and her two teenage daughters from Ohio and their names
were with Joan Rogers was the mother. She was thirty six years old, and her teenage daughters, Michelle who was seventeen and Christy Rogers who was fourteen at the time. So these three women had had taken the room, had checked in. You know, there was all sorts of you know, their their suitcases were in the room there, there are all their other belongings were in there as well. Camera
film was in there, both both undeveloped film. Undeveloped camera film was in there, both you know, used in an unused film which you know a little bit later the police developed the film that they found in there, and that kind of helps with the investigation as well from but certainly being able to identify who the victims were was you know, a big, a big moment at the investigation because prior to this, you know, the police that
really had no idea who these people were. So this, this finally gave them their first break in the case.
You talk about this family, this the Rogers family, and they're from a little place called Wilshire, Ohio, and they lived on a small farm. You say, the population was five hundred and Jones Joanne as they called her, but Jones husband was Hal Rogers, and tell us about this trip because this was a big deal for this family and how was scheduled to go, but he could tell us about this dream vacation for this little family.
Yeah, you know, as you said, the Rogers family, they were from this really small, very rural area in Ohio there and you know, actually I could really get a get a feel for it because you know, growing up, I used to go up every summer. Basically I used to go up to my grandparents' house in very rural area of Missouri and again a very very small town, very similar, so I could really get a sense of what it would have been like for this family. You know,
growing up there. But they were from this this area everybody knows everybody by name, that sort of thing, and they didn't really travel much. In fact that the girls had never been out of state on a trip before, on a vacation before ever, So this was really a big deal for them to be making this trip. And you know, of all the places they could have gone to, h they decided, you know, to go down to Florida, you know, for for a lot of reasons and including
you know, the the amusement parks. You know, Disney World of course is this big draw, that sort of thing. So so they planned this this vacation and you know, it was really meant to be kind of an escape for them, especially for Michelle. She had some some problems there. The preceding couple of years, she had suffered sexual abuse at the hands of her uncle, who actually lived on the same pharmison. He had started abusing her, sexually abusing her when she was fifteen and it continued, you know,
over a period of the year or two. So so the staycation, you know, a big part of it was to get her away from that whole scene, you know, having to deal with, right that traumatic experience, having to deal with the police talking to them afterwards, that sort of thing. So they planned this vacation. As you said, the father, Hal Rogers wasn't able to go. He had to he basically he had to stay back and take
care of the farm that they had there. You know, they had various crops planted that needed to be tended to. They were behind on that because of the rains and things that particular year. And then also they had you know, they had dairy gattle there as well, so they someone had to be there to take care of those as well. So he stayed behind. But he didn't want to you know, party through for and ruin a vacation so to speak.
So he you know, he encouraged his wife and daughters to go ahead and go on the trip and have fun. So they left, and you know, it was it was planned to be you know, a good, a good over a week vacation. They had lined up and they they
left on May twenty six. When they left Ohio, they drove down and you know, stopped at various places on the way, went to you know, went to jack and Mille, went to the zoo there, went to Silver Springs when you know, the famous glass bottom boat rides, Silver Springs, went to Kennedy Space Center, all that stuff, and then made their way to Orlando and stayed in Orlando for
several days. You know, went to Sea World, went to Magic Kingdom, went to Epcot Center, all that kind of stuff, and then you know, towards the end of the trip, they made their way over to the Bay Area and that's when they got over there. They drove over to the Bay Area on June first, which was about a week into there in their vacation at this.
Point m hmm. Now back to hol Rogers and he finds out about on the same day that he expects his family back, he finds out from police that they're dead and they've been murder and June thirteenth, there's a funeral. And you had mentioned that John Rogers had lived on the property, had been co owner of the farm and lived on the trailer and had abused and raped Michelle for eighteen months over a two year period several times.
And so he had bought hell, had bought his brother out of the property, and his brother had traveled to Florida on a vacation prior to how Rogers family traveling, So there's some tell us about the funeral and just some of the observations that they find about how Rogers.
Well, yeah, the funeral, you know, it was attended by a lot of family, a lot of friends you know, showed up for it. There was you know, about three hundred people showed up for this funeral in mid June, you know, at the church there in in the area, you know, kind of this kind of this Gothic style church. And you know, of course there was a lot of a lot of sadness, a lot of emotion. A lot of Michelle and Christie's friends were crying throughout, and you know,
as you would expect. But you know, how how didn't show a lot of emotion. You know, based on everything I found out about him, he you know, he tended to kind of keep his emotions inside, didn't really show his emotion much. And and you know that kind of came across with some people as as as odd you know, that that he wasn't reacting like you know, they thought maybe a father who had just lost his wife and only two children should be reacting, and it, you know,
just struck them as as as strange. So so you know, there were some suspicions arose from that, like, well, you know, did did how have anything to do with his family's murder?
Right?
You know, was he somehow involved with this, especially because of what happened with Michelle and his brother who had you know, we already talked about, had had raped her for a while there, and you know how had actually posted the bail for his brother to get him out on the rape charge, which was also very very strange.
You know, he later explained his reasoning for doing it, but but certainly, you know, it would seem odd that a father would post the bail of the rapists of his daughter, right, so that only you know, kind of fed this kind of suspicion that was that was arising, you know, around and around it how and and you know, did he or did he not have something to do with with the murder of his family?
And I just that investigators, despite their procedures, by September, the Saint Petersburg Police Department to spend their task force investigating the case. Well, they take twenty four detectives to two detectives. But in October, you say, something happens in this case. Regarding it, Detective James Cappell tell us what happens, what he sees, what he realizes.
Yeah, so this particular detective, he had just been reviewing this publication that you know, at the monthly publication put out by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement FDL, and he was just reading through there and he came across a notice about a rate that had occurred in Madera Beach, which was which is, you know, it's pretty close, it's about twelve miles away from the Bay area, in the Tampa Bay Area, and he read about this particular rate
that had happened on May fifteenth of that year of nineteen eighty nine, so you know, we're talking about just a couple of weeks before these three bodies were profound floating out there in the water. And so he read about this rape and it had it had supposedly it occurred on a boat got on the water, and you know, that really piqued his interest. And so what he did is he ended up traveling up to Canada to interview
the victim from that particular rape. The rape victim had been a young woman visiting the Tampa Bay area there from from Canada, and so he flew up there to meet with her and to discuss with her what had happened, and you know, about all the facts of the case. And you know, as as it turned out, a lot of these facts really really raised some red red flag as far as you know, the three bodies that were found a few months.
Later, you talk about some of these facts. Jan Bradley had a friend, Becky Matthews, and her mother in law. You write, they came to Madeira Beach and stayed at a condo owned by Jan's aunt and uncle, and so this is Mother's Day dinner at the condo. And then after Jan and Becky went to meet some friends at John's Pass, a boat dock area with restaurants and shops not too many, not too far away from the condo, and apparently they went to a seven to eleven and
met a real friendly guy. What were the details in terms of the offer by this friendly guy and the circumstances that only Jan ended up on this boat.
Yeah, so they, you know, they were at this seven eleven convenient story that they stopped in and as they came out in the parking lot, this guy, you know, called out to them and he introduced himself. He said
his name was Dave Posner. You know, he looked to be in his early thirties, you know, had a had a tan, kind of a little pot belly, a mustache, this kind of strawberry blondish hair, and he came across as this really personable, friendly guy, and somehow another that the you know, the fact that these two young women are from Canada came up, and so he started telling him about how he has lived in Upstate New York,
you know, which is pretty close to Canada. And you know, they had a pleasant little chat there for a few minutes and then you know, they said they had to get go underneath their friends, and he, this guy, Dave Posner, said, hey, you know I can you know, I can take you over there. It's fine, I'm going that way anyway, and you know, convinced them to grab a ride with him.
And you know, on the way over there, he kept chatting with them, and you know, he mentioned he had a boat and he said, hey, you guys should come out on the boat with me. You know, it'd be a lot of fun. You know, it's great sunsets, you know, this sort of thing. So he invited them out, you know, basically on kind of like a sunset cruise, and you know, they Jim eventually, you know, said okay, yeah, that sounds good. Let's do it. And they they arranged to go out
of the boat with this guy. But then, but then Becky decided that she didn't want to go anymore, and Jim basically said, well, you know, you already arranged it. I can't you know, tell him no, he's already planning it, So I'm gonna go ahead and go anyway. So she ended up going out on the boat with this Dave's guy by herself, and he took her out on the water and they had a really really good time, you know, kind of kind of did played like a little tour
guide for her, showing her sights and things. And but then at some point after you know, an hour or two out there on the boat, he had some kind of problem with the with the engine and he said he had to go back to shore for a while to fix it. So he took her back and dropped her back off where he picked her up and said, hey, you know, eat me back there in a couple hours, and hey, make sure you bring bring Becky back with you this time, and then we'll all go out again.
So uh, you know, sure enough they met back up again, but Becky still didn't want to go, so Jan went by herself again. You know, by by this point, she was feeling more comfortable with the guy because you know, she'd been around him, he'd been out there and you know, don't seem very nice and pleasant and you know, not certainly not threatening any sort of way. So she met him again and went back out on the boat with him, and they went back out and you know, we're having
a good time again. And then you know, and then eventually things changed. You know, they had thought this saw this like beautiful sunset, just as he said it would be. But you know, as after the sun went down, this they posed her character change.
Yes, uh you say that he comes on to her real strong and tells her he's going to have sex with her or she's going to have sex with him, And he tells her, is it really worth losing your life over? And uh so what does he do eventually, uh, regarding this woman after his sexual assault.
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Yeah, so he does he does rape her out on the boat there and then he takes her back, takes her back essentially where he picked her up at, and you know, it comes up with kind of tells her that so, you know, I know you're going to report me as a police but you know, give me a favor and wait a little bit, you know, because I need to, you know, mentally prepare my old mother, who's
you know, fragile. And he's not going to take this news very well and this sort of thing, so, you know, basically trying to evoke some sort of sympathy, I guess,
but he does. He drops her back off where she was and let's you go, and you know, as she steps off the boat, he says something like, oh, you know, watch your stuff, you know, which is kind of a kind of an odd thing to say too as well, just have to, you know, brutally rape somebody you know who you know, threatening their life, then you can drop
him off and say something like that. But so then so then he let her go, and you know, it kind of turned out later on that she was really fortunate in a way in that, you know, she had a friend who had met Dave, also had seen him and knew that they were going out on the boat together.
These sorts of things because you know, this dave guy knew that there was somebody had seen him, seen his face, and you know, he couldn't he couldn't maybe do what he otherwise might have done had nobody else known that jam was out there with him.
Now police have a description, and they they create a composite drawing and November third press release with the sketch. He's described as five foot nine, one hundred and ninety to two hundred pounds, short, reddish blonde hair, mustache, tan complexion, a seventeen foot boat farber Last powerboat and had great duct tape and several ropes on board. And you say the phone calls came in, Yeah, they the you.
Know, the police released a sketch and then you know they started getting phone calls and various weeds and started chasing after those and spending time investigating them, and you know, some more promising than others. Is you know, typical case and investigation. But but you know, nothing that really seemed to be getting them any closer to actually figuring out who this person was or or you know, being able
to identify them or catch them. For sure, you know, they did, they did seek the assistance of the FBI, and they gave you they have met with the FBI, the UH the Tampa investigators went up to UH the FBI's headquarters and met with them and were able to get a profile of the of the killer of the of the three you know women's and whose bodies were found.
They were able to get a criminal profile made of the person who did this, and they actually released some of that information to the public as well, and the hopes that that would help with the investigation too. You know, the profile found that this was something that had been planned by this killer, that the victims were most likely strangers, and that you know, control had been a been big element of the crime that had been really important to
the perpetrator. He had, you know, maintained control throughout the situation, had used restraints on the victims, had you know, had very likely uh committed sexual assault on them prior to killing them, and and you know, had obviously tried to dispose of the bodies to conceal the crime, which you know,
turned out to be an unsuccessful attempt. You can see it, and accounted for what happens in the decomposition process, you know, otherwise, you know, but but for that the bodies, well I have never been discovered and no one would have ever known what happened to these rogers.
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characteristics to this particular murder of these three women. But you a character that merges be very important emerges early on. And her name is Joanne's Stephie. And she had seen that initial description that I talked about, the composite that was done November third, and she saw the sketch on TV and noticed the resemblance of the men that lived two doors down from her. She saw some of the same things that were covered in that report. What did she do with this information? Is Joanne Stephie.
Yeah, so, Joanne Stephie she had seen the composite sketch that had been produced based on the you know, the input from from Jim Bradley and her friend and and when when Joanne thought, you know, it kind of struck her that this this sketch looked very similar to her former neighbor, a guy that had lived next to her, uh for for a period of time, uh in this residential neighborhood that she lived in there in the in the Bay Area. So it struck her that that there
was this, you know, pretty close resemblance. But she she mentioned it to some of her friends and neighbors there, and and you know, it was basically given the caution that, well, you know, before you say anything about something like that, you know, you need to make sure you're absolutely one hundred percent sure, because you know, that can ruin a guy's life, you know, if you go and try to say, oh, you know, this is this is my neighbor here though
that you have in the sketch, and then it turns out, you know, he's innocent. So so she was he was reluctance, a little reluctant to say anything, you know, because she didn't want to want to do that ruined some guy's life. But she did, you know, she kept this sketch. She actually you know, stuck it on her refrigerator there, refrigerated the war and then you know, kind of put it, put it out of her mind. We went about her life.
But as the as the investigation continued, you know, they got they got a couple of years into the investigation, and they the police, the investigators made the decision that they were going to release photos of the of the three Rogers women, of Joan, Michelle, and Christy and blow him up really big and put them on billboards, you know, off off the roads in the Tampa Bay area there in the hope that someone would see them and you know, be able to provide some some more information and give
them some you know, some new leads it. You know, at this point, they were basically, you know, they're basically stuck. They weren't really making any progress in the case at this point, just kind of spinning their wheels by now. So they did that, They released the pictures on the billboards.
This was in the summer of ninety two. So this, you know, we're three years and to the investigation at this point, you know, and they released the photos and the billboards and again, you know, some leads are generated from that, but you know, nothing again really to substances. But then a couple of months later, there's a decision made to go even beyond that and release some actual evidence recovered from the scene and put in on billboards. And this is a you know, this is a pretty unusual step.
You know.
For one, police don't typically release that sort of information in an ongoing investigation, you know, because they're worried that doing that is going to somehow adversely impact the investigation. They want to keep certain facts to themselves that only you know, the killer would know. They don't want it out there, you know, in the public domain, so to speak. So they did this, and what they did is what
had been recovered. One of the things that had been recovered was a brochure, you know, like its first brochure advertising some attractions there in the Saint Petersburg area. And on the strictul their brochure there was handwriting and there there was some handwritten directions it seemed like on this on this brochure, and the handwriting wasn't that of any
of the three Rogers women. And you know, it was suspected that whoever wrote those directions on there, you know, they either had something to do with their smunger or at the very least they you know, might have some information that could you know, help out with the investigation. So they what they did is the police, you know, blew up these directions, this this prossure and displayed that on these billboards and you know, real prominent areas and
so that people could see it. And you know, of course, pictures of these billboards were then put in the newspaper with a story about it and showing on the news
and all that sort of thing. And as a result of that, joe Anne Steppie saw that, you know, I believe she read it in the paper the next morning, saw pictures of the directions that had been posted and things like that, and and when she saw the handwriting again, it was something that really seemed very familiar to her, just as the sketch, the composite sketch, seemed very familiar.
Now the handwriting seemed very familiar to her. So she she went to her friend who had who she thought might have some handwriting samples u pertain to this, and sure enough she did. So they were able to compare some handwriting that they had from this individual again, this this former neighbor, against the handwriting samples displayed there in the billboards, and sure enough, very very very similar. And at this point she was, you know, convinced enough to actually notify the police about it.
Yes, it was. It was interesting you write that it was a work order for something she had he had done for the woman. And and right away when police canvas and talk to the people, the consensus is he was a really nice, helpful guy and his name was obas Chandler.
Yeah, and you know, everybody they talked to seemed to have the same sort of perception of him as as you said, as this as this you know, kind of
nice guy, helpful guy. You know, he'd helped his neighbors a certain things at certain times, and which was actually consistent with what the criminal profile had had, you know, predicted that he would be this this guy that would be blending in to the community, that he would seem like kind of a typical friendly, you know, next door neighbor kind of person and that's apparently, that's indeed how he came across that he was, you know, able to be able to maintain this ruse and blend in the
whole time, and you know, no one suspecting anything bad about him at all.
So they do a search, but they have him. He's he's his name is and he has a driver's license for this game's right, But regardless, they have him. With a search of his home, you say, they find a quarter million dollars worth of jewelry and tools, videos, SMBD and a green shirt that Jan Bradley said he had
on when he raped her. And they find out more about the robbery from his wife, Deborah tell us what police find and what they hear about some of his activities with his wife regarding absences from the home.
Yeah, so they were able to eventually, once they identify him as over Toba Chandler, they were able to, you know, now that they had this information, they were able to dig into his past and and interview his wife and things like this. But you know, they did find out that he had committed a bunch of robberies in his past. He actually had a very extensive record of various thefts and robberies, including you know, the substantial jewelry robbery that
happens in the Bay area and some other things. But he had he had a lengthy past, you know, including you know, home invasion robbery and they the Beach area. He had been involved in some sort of counterfeiting scheme, had been arrested back in the early eighties for counterfeiting, served you know, a prison sentence, a lengthy prison sentence
for that. And you know, again as I think, as you mentioned, you know, he had this alias James Wright, and that's when what he had gone by for years and years and was able to you know, it really kind of struck me when I was looking into this one of the things that it just seemed like he was able to evade detection, like just by such as simple means as using this false name and in false driver's license, And it really struck me, like, how how was that never able to be you know, seen through,
or how was he able to pull it off by that? Like how would the police not be able to find out his true identity? But nevertheless, he was able to do this, and so he had this extensive record, and you know, once they did identify him you know, by then he was he left the area, so they had to track try to track him down there where he was. They finally caught up to him, finally arrested him.
Uh.
You know, we're able to interview his wife as as you mentioned, and you know learned that you know, he did have a kind of a history of of of abruptly leaving at times, not really telling her why or how long you'd be gone, and that sort of thing, and you know, and then you know, coming back eventually, but so you certainly had this kind of track record of unexplained absences.
He's eventually there's a grand jury indictment and he's eventually charged. There was some information. He has a daughter named Crystal Mays, and police find out that there was some contacts and he says some things to his daughter. This trial is unique in that normally you would see a two prosecutor team, maybe an investigator as well, but in this regard, you right that there's four prosecutors on this case, isn't it.
Yeah? The State Attorney Office, you know, they really handled this as an extremely important case. You know, it had been it had been the investigation had taken so long, and it was you know, it was a famous case, the infamous case. You know, three You don't find three bodies and the Bob and the bay very often, So it was it had got a lot of press attempted press attention, and so that the State Attorneys office ticket real seriously and they devoted a lot of resources to
the prosecute the case. And you know, the trial itself ended up being followed very closely by the media obviously as well. And uh, it ended up being a very ementful trial too.
Jesus as an opportunity to stop for a second for these commercials. Now you talked about that he had this prosecution team against this Rogers, but they also had a fine defense team as well, including an attorney named Zenobar or Zeno Bar. And he had a strategy for this regarding the Madeira rape case and evidence that would be raised at this murder trial. So it's a little complex, but tell us what this legal strategy was.
Yeah, so the lead defense a journey for Zinneberg. He had, you know, he had originally was fighting having anything brought into the trial about the Madera Beach rape. You know,
he wanted that excluded. He actually, you know, quite quite hard to have that excluded for quite some time, but then when the trial actually started, he abruptly abandoned that strategy and decided that, you know, rather than try to fight that, you would just say, yeah, this rape happened, and basically basically admitting that, you know, his client had
committed this rape. But the legal strategy essentially boiled down to that it was it was a it was a different case, and it wasn't it wasn't sufficiently similar to be able to be pointed to as saying, oh, this can establish guilt of murder, you know, and the thought process being that, well, the jury knows that Oba Chandler is going to be serving some sort of time for this rape, then perhaps they won't be as inclined to
want to find him guilty in the murder trial. So that's kind of the legal strategy that he was using.
The other part of I don't know what's strategy, but the defense attorneys Cenobar had promised that that Rogers would testify on his own behalf, and he certainly did so. What there was the main issue, or one of the big issues, was his handwriting match from the directions he gave to Rogers family on the brochure, but also the effect of his testimony at this trial. As you write, tell us a little bit about testimony, what he said and its effect.
Yeah.
So, so the defense made the decision that uber Chandler would would testify. You know, of course, in the criminal trial that the defendant does not have to testify, They don't have to take the stand. And quite frequently, in fact, you know, as you probably know, that these defendants don't take the stand, right just because you know, there's a lot of risks involved in that, you know, including being subject across examination by the prosecution if you do that.
So oftentimes they don't take the stand. But in this case, ober Chandler took the stand. He did testify, and you know, I guess the belief was that you know, he had been able to pool people for so long, and you know, he had this personality that they figured he'd come across well as a as a witness, and that you know, the jury would believe him, you know, and saying that he had nothing to do with it, and that he never took him out on the boat and all this
kind of thing. But but it actually kind of blew up in their face because the jurors didn't really by one, they didn't find him persuasive, and in two, they didn't really like him. When he testify it, he came across as as someone who was, you know, not being honest and someone who was not someone that could be believed in, someone that they didn't really like. So it really kind
of blew up in their face. And you know, one of the one of the issues that came up in his testimony was, you know what happened when he was out on his boat on this particular night because they were able to place as being out on the bay the night that the murders would have occurred. They were able to place him out there based on phone records that that they subpoened and were able to track down showing that he had been out there and made calls
from his boat on that particular night. So so he had to admit, you know, that he was out there, and you know, so the question Campbell, you know, what
were you doing out there? And why we out there for so long and all this kind of stuff, And so his explanation was that he had had mechanical issues with his boat out there and that he'd basically kind of been stuck out there for a long period of time while he was trying to deal with the you know, the engine issues that were going on up there with the boat, and he, you know, he basically got trapped
in a in a lie. And you know, it came across very clearly to the jury when it when it happened, and it was a you know, a big, a big almost like a Perry Mason kind of moment, you know, when the when the prosecution was able to show that what he was claiming could not have in fact happened at he queened it.
Yes, it's very interesting, as you're write, very exciting that at the same time that he's testifying about this repair ironically with duct tape, there's an assistant state attorney watching the proceedings in the very courthouse and knew all about boats and immediately knew that the why the story sounded false just not possible mechanically, and like you say, a trialed then it just this whole thing that he thought was so clever blew up in his face as a lie, as you say.
Yeah, and you know, and it really it really surprised his attorney as well, because basically the attorney basically bought the story as well. You know, he basically believed what Pliant was telling him, and you know, so he was he was, he was, this is a big unexpected turn
of events, and this that he said this. This other member of the prosecution team was was watching it, and he happened to be familiar with boats, knew a lot about him, and you know, knew that probably wasn't true, and so they dashed out and got a you know, an expert witness to come in and testify about it.
It's interesting too, when you say in the in the closing arguments, and when the prosecution scoffs at the defensive point that trying to give some semblance of a good character in Oba Chandler in that one of during one of his assaults on the boat where the woman narrowly escaped because her friend was waiting for her, he tried to because she was menstruating, he tried to sexually assault her anally, and she told him that she had rectal
cancer and so he didn't. So the defense remarkably brought that up as some kind of character point for Oba Chandler in this trial. Very very interesting, and that was scoffed at by prosecution.
As you're write, yeah, it's a kind of a crazy thing to bring up, as you say, there, you know, they're trying to show, oh, well, he's not that bad because you know, he didn't actually anally raperr. You know, he like as if he had some sort of you know, compassion or something, and he wasn't that bad of a guy for not raping her that way. He raped her another way instead, you know, as if any sort of rape would be you know, Okay, So he was an interesting fact to take for sure.
An you're right that there was uh, this is ten days of trial testimony, but the jury deliberated for only eighty minutes. What was the result and what was the reaction from Oba Chandler, Yeah, it was.
It was a quick, quick deliberation. He was he was found you know, guilty of the murders of the Rogers women, all three counts.
It.
He didn't really Chandler didn't have much of a reaction. He was pretty stone faced for it. And you know, it took the jury even less time to come up with the recommended penalty for the crime, which ends up being the death penalty. It came to that recommendation very very quickly, and so he was convicted in all three counts in the Rogers murders and given.
You right. And we didn't mention this already, but there was some talk of this as well, right from the profiler in the beginning that was brought in from the FBI that it was it seemed that there was a possibility that they were these women were alive when they were thrown in to the water, and the judge made sure that everybody heard that they watched each other die.
He mentioned and he said, imagine the terror, and so was very it was emphasized what the horror that these women experienced one by one seeing what was being done to each one of them and then realizing and who was last, no one knows, but the horror of seeing each other subsequently be raped and killed and thrown overboard as they determined likely alive.
Yeah, I mean, that's something that really really hit me as well when I was when I was writing this is just imagining that scenario and imagining being one of these women out there, you know, being a mother or one of the teenage daughters out there on this boat at night and experiencing this, and just how horrific that would really be. And the judge really really brought that
home as well. And the sentencing and you know, I quote I quote it in the book, and you know, she was really effected and conveying this and and she said, one victim was first to watched, Imagine the fear, one victim was second, one watched, Imagine the horror. Finally, the last victim would see the other two disappear over the side,
was lifted up and thrown overboard. Imagine the terror. Chandler's torture of these three women was over with their panic and fear in the water before their merciful death is unfathomable. And yeah, it really struck me. It was just I mean, you almost can't imagine how horrible that would be. I mean just yeah, just a parent having to witness their child being brutally raped and murdered in the scenarios, just it just it just leads a back casting around.
You know. The thing is that what from everything from first responders, from the public that saw the bloated bodies, to the coast guard that had to experience the horror of seeing these people unrecognizable completely to the people, then the task force, the Sindra Cummings, Detective more JJ Goyhagen and the other people that were dedicated and this case hit them personally and they were all involve bringing this
guy to justice. But also what we did mention was there was very interesting array of inmates that were feted
and then were prosecution witnesses. So some of the horrific dialogue that was provided at this trial that people can read about also reinforced from the Madeira rape dialogue to other things that Rogers said to these inmates that reinforced that he was referring to these murders and in his incredibly talous nature and some of the horrific remarks he said apparently about the Rogers murder and what he said to these people before they were killed, and other victims
that narrowly escaped murder on from Rogers itself. So it's the trial is very eye opening and his testimony that a lot that you provide is harrowing as well. Well. It's an incredible trial. And one of the like one of the jurors I mentioned, he wrote that he had a smirk on his face and he that Jurdis wanted to wipe that smirk off his face.
Yeah, exactly. He just said, you know it really some of the testimony that came out really underscored the callousness that the cold bloodedness that he had and that he you know, how he carried out these crimes, and you know almost you know, seems seemed really proud of himself what was for it, kind of bragged about it.
You write that he was appeals wound through the court slowly. Seventeen years later he was up for execution, but which you're right, was very interesting. We go back to the prologue now. In your epilogue that February twenty fifth, twenty and fourteen, there was a major announcement in its five year old homicide and well we had mentioned that heavy burge bridgey Burgratories pardon me, I'm paturing that name in
November nineteen ninety and Coral Springs. There was improvements in D and day the technology and Chandler lived one and a half miles away from the mall where she was last seen. What is that announcement in regarding this woman.
Yeah, so this is one of the things that really interested me in the in the case too, when I was researching it. You know that three years after OVI Chandler was executed. He's you know, he's tied to a new crime, to another murder, you know, thanks to advances in DNA technology, and you know, and you know this is we see this happen in other cases as well. Obviously, as the as the technology has improved, the ability to solve various unsolved crimes has has occurred, and that certainly
happened here. And you know, he's executed in twenty eleven, and then in twenty fourteen there's an announcement from out of Broward County that that over Chandler has been identified as the killer of Evil's figure Ease. As you said, that had happened back in nineteen ninety. So this unsolved crime, now, thanks to the DNA advanced technology, is able to be solved.
And what had happened is investigators there in Broward County, had you know, aware of the fact that the technology had gotten better, had decided to go back and take a look at this again. And using this better technology, they were able to identify DNA profile from some semen that had been still on some swabs taken from the victims of vagina back you know, decades before and after entering that that DNA profile in the in the database, you know, a match came back for O the chandler.
So so this this murder, this wall and in soolved murders, finally solved. And you know, it really struck me that, you know, that's the great example of how the policing technology advances have helped, you know, solve these otherwise unsolvable crimes.
Yeah.
Yeah, And closing too, you say that Detective Glenn Moore, which was instrumental in this investigation, satisfaction. He had a satisfaction in knowing that the task force, timely aid by members of the public, succeeded in getting a serial killer permanently off the streets. So some semblance of satisfaction. I want to thank you very much J. T. Hunter for coming on and talking about your latest American monster, the Search for the Sunset Killer. I want to thank you very much for this interview.
JT.
Hunter.
Thank you, thanks for having me on again, and uh I look forward to talking to you again in the future.
I hope absolutely. Thank you so much. JT. Hunter.
Good night, all right, because