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Notions you are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The.
Nightstalker, DTK.
Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Good evening. In this breathtaking cultural history filled with exclusive, never before revealed details, Celebrated rock journalist Joel Selvin tells the definitive story of the Rolling Stones infamous Altamont Concert in San Francisco, the disastrous historic event that marked the end of the idealistic nineteen sixties in the Annals of
rock history. The Altamont Speedway Free Festival on December sixth, nineteen sixty nine has long been seen as a distorted twin of Woodstock, the day that shattered the sixties promise of peace and love when a concertgoer was killed by a member of the Hell's Angels, the notorious biker club acting as security. While most people know of the events from the film Gimme Shelter, the whole story has remained
buried in various accounts, rumor, and myth until now. Altamont explores Rock's Darkest Day, a fiasco that began well before the climatic death of Meredith Hunter and continued beyond their infamous December Night. Joel Salvin probes every aspect of the show, from the stones hastily plan tour preceding the concert, to the bat that swept through the audience, to other deaths that also occurred that evening to capture the full scope
of the tragedy and its aftermath. He also provides an in depth look at the Grateful Dead's role in the events leading to Altamont, examining the bands behind the scenes presence in both arranging the show and hiring the Hell's Angels as security. The product of twenty years of exhaustive research and dozens of interviews with many key players, including medical staff, Hell's Angels members, the stage crew, and the
musicians who are there. Including sixteen pages of color photos, Altamont is the ultimate account of the final event in Rock's formative and most turbulent decade. Book there was examining this evening is Altamont, The Rolling Stones, The Hell's Angels, and the inside story of Rock's Darkest Day, with my guests, journalist and author Joel Salvin. Welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Joel Salvin, Thanks Dan,
good to be here. Thank you very much. A little bit different book to look at today, but an incredible look back in history and again the darkest day in music's history, definitely. So let's ask I asked this question, why a book about Altamont? Now, how did you become involved? Why did you want to become involved? Tell us a little bit about that.
Well, I worked for most of what we might laughingly refer to as my adult life as the pop music critic of the San Francisco Chronicle. I started there in nineteen seventy and the Duns, the aroma of Altamont was still in the air. So it's been a part of my lore all along. I came to know the musicians who played their stage hands, people who attended the concert, and I heard these stories all you know, all those years. Why now, well, let's just say that there's a I
was time for a good story. This is a great story. I was not so convinced myself at first that it was a great story, because I was so it was such common material to me, I was so a nerd to the drama of it. But it was suggested that I look into this a little bit. Uh, And I went down to Monterey to visit with Rock Scully, the manager of The Grateful Dead Roca told me the story of how Altamont started. It was a beautiful day. I hadn't seen Rock in ages. He looked great. We ate
outside and I drove home. It's about two and a half hour drive to San Francisco, and I drove home just feeling like I had a gold nugget in my pocket. This story, this story was so good, and it's just streamed. This is how a book opens. And about two months later, Rock died. He'd been sick that day. I didn't know it. Like I said, he looked so good. I was taking
photographs of it. But it felt, really at that point like these stories were evaporating and we had to do this right now or it was just going to not be possible. And it's certainly been the case since the book's been published. I think three or four people that I interviewed for the book have died since it.
Wow. Yeah, now, let's as you do in the book, take us back to and you include this fantastic the historical backdrop, But you have to take us back before nineteen sixty nine to be able to explain the phenomena the free concerts, the status musically and culturally of the Rolling Stones, and the Grateful Dead in some of the bands,
Woodstock itself, and the sixties counter revolution. So tell us about jan Winner and the humble beginnings of Rolling Stone, and tell us to start to begin to tell us who were the major players before we talk about the December nineteen sixty nine Altamont concert.
So you're so right, Dan, this was just a huge convergence of social, political, cultural, and musical factors out there, and it was really difficult to lay that stuff out. The underpinnings of all this. That was the most challenging part of the book for me. And you can't separate what happened on stage and with the Hell's Angels and Meredith Hunter and all that that day, with the culture of the time. The historical moment wood Sock had been
three months before the moon landing, the Manson killings. The Chicago police shot Fred Hampton, the Black Panther in his apartment that very week. It was just an extraordinary moment in our nation's history. You mentioned Jon Lennard. The Rolling Stone magazine was successful by that point, was about a
year and a half old. Jon was the publisher and founder, but it was largely a kind of underground music magazine, sort of a hit parade or a tiger beat for hippies, until the Altamont thing challenged him journalistically and they rose to the task. Their twenty thousand word article cover headline let It Bleed was really the first authentically accurate journalistic
account of that day. The mainstream media just kicked that bucket down the hill, and I mean the New York Times noted it is a joyous advanced although one concert go or had been stabbed to death, but otherwise it was wonderful. The local newspaper radio has pretty much taken the same thing it took Rolling Stone to really pull the curtain back on what the violence and negligence of that day, and in doing so they really established themselves as a legitimate news magazine with that one issue.
Let's go back and tell it in the sequence so that we can understand how important Jan Winner and the Rolling Stone Magazine is to this story and is to history period and this murder case as well as we will see. Let's talk about the bands and San Francisco. Now, San Francisco, you can tell it better than anyone. It was outside what I guess the rock music thought was New York and Los Angeles, and it certainly San Francisco
was not known nationwide as you write. So tell us about what happens with the San Francisco music scene in some of those bands, those players, and how do they get exposure before we talk about again this planned free festival here with the Stones and the Dead and some other bands.
Okay, I can do that. So in nineteen sixty six in San Francisco there was a tremendous explosion of music based primarily on people who have been experimenting with the psychedelic Doug Lst. There are a couple of dance balls
in town, the Fillmore Auditorium and the Avalon Ballroom. They were putting on shows every week, and there was a whole variety of new sounding rock music, rock music they had never sounded like this before, with bands with funny names like Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Big
Brother in the Holding Company. These bands were entirely unheard of outside of certain neighborhoods in San Cisco in nineteen sixty six, but by nineteen sixty seven, the national news media had begun to find out about this fifty thing in San Francisco. In January sixty seven, some hundred thousand people showed up at the Polo Fields and Golden Gate
Park to listen to those dams. They did so without any violence, any strife, and the gewords, which blew everybody's mind that that many people could come together without any you know, horrible incidences. They were compared to professional athletics, and the cops just couldn't believe what a different crowd it was from say, like a football game. So that's like where the beginning of this whole San Francisco mythology began.
It was no mythology, you know, these dams lived in the Haye Ashbury and a Golden Gate Park and they were just if the day was sunny and they felt like they'd take their gear out in the park and just start playing, and they didn't care who came or how,
or if they got paid for it or not. And so this was like a new kind of renaissance of arts and culture on a lite electric psychedelic level in California, and there was no Internet at those times, so there was very little information outside of the immediate experience, right, you know, there were magazines, they weren't newspapers weren't covering it. The record industry was ignoring it. By the summer of sixty seven, which the media called the Summer of Love,
san Francisco is very much and everybody's focus. One hundred thousand kids descended on San Francisco that summer. The Jefferson Airplanes second album, Cyrialistic Pillow, was the biggest record of the summer. White Rabbits and Somebody Love all over the airwaves, and the entire record industry sort of looked at San
Francisco as like having a new answer. San Francisco in London became the sort of axis on which the rock scene revolved at that point, and by two years later in nineteen sixty nine, San Francisco was the center of the rock music universe, and the Airplane was one of the big bands in the world. There was a big brother in the Hold Income. They had a number one album that year. All the great new bands, all the exciting new bands, Creeden's Clearwater Revival Santana was lie in
the Family Stone. Those were all out of San Francisco, and it seemed like that, you know, there was just something so authentic about the music these hippies made that it had resonated all around the world, and especially in London, where the music scene had always been very fashion conscious. You know, understand. I mean they look like they transmografy music into style in England, and that's a very close relationship that they didn't quite understand from five thousand miles away.
With what little faint hints of it they could get lisps, you know, LSD was hard to come by in London and light shows. They were just guessing at what was going on in San Francisco. There was very little back and forth until like sixty eight. So the Rolling Stones in nineteen sixty nine found themselves in a financial bind.
They were broke. They had a manager who had bottlenecked all their royalties and they were advised the only way they could get new money was to form a separate company that he wasn't involved in toured the United States. They hadn't been on tour in the United States for three years. The previous time, you know, they were like do a half hour set at the end of an entire card of like one or two hit wonders, doing three or four songs a piece, and then get the
hell out of Dodge. Right. But in the ensuing three years, the rock scene has just changed so totally. In the United States. I mean, like Leed Zeppelin was the big act that year that fall in October, touring behind their second album, and you know, they had a two and a half hour show with like a half hour drum solo.
So the Rolling Stones seeing the United States as a financial opportunity to show up here to do this tour, and they and it gets complicated by many issues now because they're trying to get into this world of this new world of woodstock rock, and there's so many public pronouncements that must be made. You know, you have to be in favor of free music, and you can't be seen as gouging your fans, even if you're asking seven dollars and fifty cents about twice what everybody else gets
for concert tickets. Right. So the Stones are trying to brush up against this San Francisco thing, and they start talking about this free concert right from the start. It's a thing at the time free concerts, and Jager mentions it in a press conference in Los Angeles beginning the tour.
Once the tour starts and they find out how much impact they are really having, what size of opportunity this American tour really represents, then you know they start over time on this idea of well, let's do a concert movie, and let's let's have a free concert kind of our own Woodstock at the end to frame the movie. Now, they don't even really get this in gear until the end of the tour in New York when they finally meet with Albert and David Masels, the documentary filmmakers who
would shoot the Madison Square Garden shows. But that's just the next to the last show on the tour. There's some footage, but they don't have a movie. The only way they're gonna have a movie is if the Stones go through with this giant Woodstock the in free concert
in San Francisco. Well, behind the scenes, there's then a power struggle between the Stone's front office and the Grateful Dead, and the Stone's front office has taken control of the permit process with the Parks because It was Rock Scully's original idea to get a permit in the name of the Jeffson Airplane and Grateful Dead and bring the Stones on. It's like a surprise special guest announced like the day before the concert, sort of pull one over on the city.
But the Stones insisted are their guys insisted on you taking up the permit process themselves, And that ended any prospect of ever playing in San Francisco, because, believe me, the mayor of San Francisco is not interested in hifty smoothing of the park. So Jagger goes ahead the next day and announces at a New York press conference that they're going to have this free concert on December sixth,
somewhere near San Francisco. We don't know where. As late as Tuesday, before the Saturday of the scheduled concert, they did not have a location. Then they stumble across this racetrack about sixty miles north of San Francisco called Serious Point, strike a deal with the guys that are running the track,
and start building the stage and sound system. The next day, the corporate owners of the racetrack find out about this deal and they call up the Stones lawyer and they do not believe that the Stones are doing this movie for charity, and they don't happen to be in the film business themselves. They want a piece of the film and they want a rental. And now the Stones refused to budge. This is all about money. They don't get to spend any money. They scale me it for twenty
four hours. The stage is going up. At serious point, the sheriff is calling and telling them if they throw there, they're all going to be arrested. And that's when this guy, Dick Carter shows up, calls him to the Stone's lawyer's office. He's got a rundown speedway sixty miles east of San Francisco, and I mean nowhere, past the suburbs, past Exurbia, past hundreds of acres of cowell passer over a hill and in a valley on the edge of nowhere. The biggest
crowd he's ever had, six thousand for demolition. Jersey's almost out of business, but he says the show's can have his raceraft Altamont speedway for free. He just wants to publicity. It's Thursday afternoon. The show's supposed to start on Saturday at noon. Rock Scullia the Grateful Dead, gets in a helicopter with Michael Lang, the producer of Woodstock, not really sure what he's doing with and they fly out over the Livermore Valley where Altamont is to take a look
at it. As they dip down over this racetrackt Rock looks out there and he sees all these broken glass and these oil stains and these wrecked cars from the demolition derby sitting there thinking what the what the and he hears Michael Lang say, oh, this is perfect. We can do it right here. Fst Thursday afternoon, they start moving the gear over from serious points sixty miles away by helicopter. Five trucks that are driven by volunteers raised
from the radio come helpless homes concert. They put the stage together fighting night in the dark, without many flashlights, and they're still plugging in equipment and wrapping tables. When the band starts the next day at noon, there's three hundred thousand people there in the middle of nowhere. No running water, no food, concessions, no parking, no nothing. Just oooh, all these people shut up. The cops had no idea
they were coming. There's a very bad setup for what happened, and what happened was what you know, you would expect from something like that.
Let's go back a little bit to the relationship that the Rolling Stones had with the UK Hell's Angels and the difference as you point out, between the UK Hell's Angels and American California Hell's Angels with Sunny Barger and crew. Tell us about the relationship the Dead had with the Great Pardoner, with the Hell's Angels and their own guy that were former I guess former angels, So tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, well, the Angels were very much a part of the San Francisco rock scene. There were presents at all the outdoor concerts and in fact at the Human Being they guarded the electrical cord and the handle of the Lost Children. That was one of the big things that
you know, everybody was like, oh my god. The Hell's Angels, well, you know they partied with Ken Casey, and Ken Causey was the acid evangelist who provided the environment where the Gatful Dead started, so they all kind of knew each other, and especially the San Francisco chapter. So when the concert was originally planned, Rock Scully said, we got to invite the Angels. They're coming anyway, so we met whom we
should invite them. So he took Sam Cutler, who was the Storms tour director, over to meet with some of the officers of the San Francisco Chapter. And the first thing Pete Nell said was, we're not cops. We're not gonna do security. Oh, you know, we just want you to help out in any way you can. And you know, we want you to feel welcome, and you know, we want to make you feel welcome. And teachers, well, we like beer. The Samson says, well, we'll buy you some beer.
So he buys five hundred dollars with a beer for the Hell's Angels and they come over. Keep in mind, if that concert had been held in San Francisco, which at that time was planned for, then the San Francisco Chapter would have had jurisdiction, and that's a different thing altogether. Those guys were well known to the dance. They hung out backstage, they rode bikes together, they took business together. They were all together, more civilized bunch of Hell's Angels.
And once it moved out of San Francisco and the San Francisco Chapter lost jurisdiction. Then it said a different ballgame, and in fact most of the problems of Altamont were causing the front stage by the San Jose Chapter, which is a brand new chapter, had been formed just that summer after a violent, vicious turf war with a group called the Gypsy Jokers. They've wiped out the Gypsy Jokers and took like a few of the Gypsy Jokers and some of the South San Francisco Angels and formed this
new San Jose chapter. And the Santase Chapter showed up, and they were strung their bikes across the front of the stage because well they were gonna buy tall stage from three hundred thousand people a mile away, and they knew that nobody would touch a Hell's Angels fight. Well that didn't prove to be the case. But the San Francisco Angels showed up. They were backstage, they were on stage. They went out in front with the pool cues. That
was the San Lease guys. One of the most important jobs in my book was to was to teat the Hell's Angels fairly at last, and to give those guys their names. Back By the way, Dan, because I look over all the reports that are reporting that came before and it's just Hell's Angels this and Hell's Angels out. Oh look, you know, these were people, and some of them were as a gass and a paull that what went on that day, as anybody was. Some of them were extremely helpful to the doctors. Some of them were
very helpful to the film crew. There's a lot of different experiences in Altamont for the Hell's Angels, And you know, I wanted to be fair and honest and real about that, you know, like Paul Hibbitts, they called him Animal. That was the guy who beat up Marty ballin the Jefferson Airplane vocalist and I want to you know, he died a few years ago. He spent most of his life up in Alaska. But he was really apparently a very fun, nice guy who's off intoxicated that day, real high, A
lot of people were. There was, as you say, a lot of bad drugs going around. And he also did love the Fist party. So you know, Animal was a bad flash point. And yeah, he beat up Marty once in front of the film cameras. In the second time backstage, and then he beat up Rex Jackson the Grateful Dead's Roady who was the big bad enforcer of that band. And when Rex got knocked out, everybody on stage knew that the Angels own the stage, so some of them misbehaved.
They were putting in a bad position. But the Stones didn't have any idea what they were. The guys that intended to be Hell's Angels in London, that they that they had backstage at their free concert in Hyde Park. Those are some candy ass guys with clean jackets with their colors drawn and chalk and they rode mop heads for prying out loud. They had no idea what a California Hell's Angel was anymore, and they knew what a real California hippy was or what a pre concert was
really like in the park. They just thought these things could be just manifested out of the ether and Jaggers in particular, so a total disregard for like practical realities.
Let's go to the day itself, and of course you talk about you mentioned three hundred thousand people, and no one had even planned on these kinds of numbers, and certainly no one was prepared for any kinds of those numbers in any conceivable way. Whatsoever. What was the idea about the Golden Gate Park? Was there some confidence that the concert Kent would be organized? And why was it
not able to be originally? I mean, you had the other speedway site, but why could have not conceivably been done at say, Golden Gate Park.
So this whole thing starts late one night in London of about two months before, when Rock Scully of the Grateful Dead brings over a bunch of Sensoma exotic marijuana grown in California, to Keith Richards. So they stay up all night smoking this grass and talking about like things that are going to happen, like the Stones ending tour, and Rock tells Keith that he can fix it for the Stones to play a free concert in Golden Gate Park.
He'd get a permit in the name of the Jeffson Airplane and Grateful Dead and then announced the Stones like special surprise guests twenty four hours before then. He was sure he could do that. I'm not sure what Keith thought Rock Scully was. You know, did Keith think that he put on a suit and went to an office in the morning. Rock Scully was a hippie. He was a fantastic guy. He was very very smart and well educated and highly verbal, but he's also like the attention
deficit disordered poster child. He'd taken so much LSD. There his pupils and just full brown blobs floating in buttermilk.
Uh.
And you know, it's not exactly like the kind of person that you know works in the music business in London. So I don't know what Key thought of Rock or what Rock really thought, because I know he also suggested that the Stones should do a concert at stone Hens that night, and and also dreamed up taking the Stones to the taj Mahal for a concert. So who knows,
but the idea stuck with Keith. And when the Stone stops a Los Angeles and started seeing all the tremendous excitement around both the Stones themselves and this free concert idea, then they contacted Rock and asked him to make good on his his boast, and he showed up with Emmitt Grogan and the Diggers. They were sort of like a hate Ashbury community group down in Hollywood, and agreed to
do this with him. Now, the permit thing came unglued, and that's another complicated backstage politics deal because there was this guy in the Stones tour going by the name of John James. That wasn't his real name. The Stones didn't know that. He told the Stones he worked for Chrysler and could get them free cars. He told Chrysler he worked for the Stones and could get them an endorsement. And with that he wriggled his way into sort of the touring party management. And he was a big shot.
He was also on the witness protection program and seemed to know some cops. He bought some off duty New York cops around to guard the Stones, you know. And he stepped up at some point and said, oh, I can handle this permit thing, and this he took over the idea of contacting Now that just wasn't gonna work. But Grateful Dead knew the system, and they knew how to tickle it, and they knew how to work with subterfuge, and they had the Parks Commission all lined up and
all that. But the minute the word Rolling Stones came out, then the deal was done and they were never going to get into Golden Gate Park. And this guy James just called up the Mayor's office and you tried to throw the Rolling Stones name around. That was not how it worked in San Francisco, so that was just over as soon as he picked it up. There's an interesting thing that guy ended up being the signator on the contract with Altamon. He was never on the stones as
pay Well. He had no official affiliation with them at all, and yet here he was like guaranteeing all this stuff and when the legal thing went down, he was the guy holding the bag. No wonder he disappeared.
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slash murder. Blue Apron a better way to cook. Now we lass left off, Joel, I want you to our audience to set up, as you very vividly doing your book, the day itself and again the confluence and convergence of events and circumstances that are Altamont that day, including as
you said, the lack of preparation. But talk about the bad LSD and to be fair as well as you do in the book the San Jose guys with the pool cues, these prospects in this new chapter were out of control and there was more than a hint of violence right from early on, we'll say, so take us back to that day and some of the things that even the hippies were seeing, armed with only peace symbols.
You know, I love the way that chapter opens because I chose to start the con section of the book at the police station and twenty six year old acting watch commander and the guy who caught the phone call on the way out of the office at eight in the morning, was asked if he knows anything about a concert at the Altamont Speedway with the Rolling Stones, and it means nothing to him, and he makes a note of it and passes the note off to his acting
watch commander because he's going home and he doesn't know who the Rolling Stones are. Yeah, that's where we go out there. At the beginning, it was just it just flopped on that end of the world. And yes, then you're still right. From the very onset, there was a flood on the ground and violence. The crowd was in a bad mood. The conditions were terrible, and the first
band of the day, Santana, got things going. But somewhere in the middle of their first song, concert goer jumped up on this four foot tall stage and ran across the stage, chased by three or four Hells Angels and caught up with him on stage right and from the keyboard player and beat the kid to a pulp. The band was horrified. They've never seen anything like it. The stage was overcrowded with like two hundred people of a very menacing Hell's angels right over your shoulder. The next
act was Jeffson Airplane. That's when Animal called cocked Marty Ballin and nobody had ever seen that happen before. Musician beat up on stage during the set. That was just incredibly shocking, and nerder to stop the concert Paul Kantner of the Jeffson Airplane and get into a shouting match with Sweet William Fritz at the San Francisco chapter, who was on stage. Those guys knew each other. Canner couldn't
believe what it was happening. Bill Ladner, the road manager from the Jeffson Airplane, used to ride bikes with those guys. He knew every one of them months that were on stage from the San Francisco chapter. They couldn't believe what was happening. The pal cues were out in front and all through Santana's set, all through the Airplanes set, any perceived and in fraction crimes real and imagine were punished. The doctors told me they were surprised how many girls
they were stitching up from with lacerations and invasions. These guys were pumped up on reds. It was a sleeping pill. They tend to like frustrate people. So they had noticed the anger pill and really bad LSD. LSD that has been cut with strychnine or methamphetimine over stimulus is in nineteen sixty seventh the Summer Love. People who made LSD were missionaries. They were zealous, and those chemists want great
links to make sure that those compounds were stable. Two years later it devolved into a criminal enterprise and the chemists were just throwing anything in there that it made it work. Methamphetamine added to LSU would overstimulate the users, causes all kinds of side effects. I guess you call them side effects. And there was a lot of drinking going on now in this so the love again drinking and psychedelics and didn't mix. Now Here we're at Alphamont,
people are guzzling red Mountain lime. And the medical symptoms of mixing psychedelics and alcohol are erratic behavior and violent outburst. And we got a lot of that. So you have all this and the psychiatrists, I thought, the psychiatrists working in the bumber camp, they were overwhelmed from the minute they opened for business. They couldn't believe it for what they were seeing. And then these guys were from San Francisco.
They weren't dabs in the woods. But this was just an extraordinary, outrageous thing that was going on right from the start beyond the tale, and they worried since they knew how remote their kent was, how there were no stage announcements about its existence or any signage pointing the way that they were only seeing the of what was going on out there. So what we're talking about is probably tens of thousands of people on drugs.
What can you explain for our audience the three hundred thousand people show up? But what is the phenomena at that time? Because it always wasn't like that, and maybe isn't like that now that somebody would want to rush the stage. Was there actually people rushing the stage or was there a couple of things going on in terms of people pushing from behind? Were some people trapped against it?
Yeah?
There was the will in them.
No room down front. Real Marcus is a Rolling Stone reporter, was there that day, and he told me that at one point, standing up down front, he got off his leg, onder one leg, and he couldn't get his leg back down because the crowd was so tightly crushed together that he stood there on one leg trying to get his leg down. Nobody would help him or cut him a brake. So yeah, the crowd, of conditions, the hostile nature of
the crowd, and the drugs, the weather. It was thirty seven the night before, very cold, and warmed up to the low seventies, really unseasonably warm. And then at the end of the day after coffee stills nastly young, and the two hours before the Stones came on after dark, forty mile an hour winds went through the place and the temperature dropped twenty degrees and then he turned dark and the Stones came on and all helped. Bro Cluse.
Let's talk about Patty Brenda Hoft and her boyfriend Meredith Hunter. And he's black and she's white, and what did they notice, according to her later, what did they notice about the angels and their attitude about a black and white couple. We're talking nineteen sixty nine.
Paddy was from Berkeley, where, you know, the most progressive community in the country at that point. Patty was always aware of the kind of looks she got when she was out with Meredith. But I don't have to take her word for it. Tony Frunchis was the Stones bodyguard. He was on stage all day. He's a six foot eight, two hundred and eighty five pound guy with a thirty four inch waist, a former Air Force boxing champion and one of the couple of the Hell's Angels. Gave him
some trouble earlier in the morning. He took from both backstage and broke his hand on their faces. So nobody messed with Tony the rest of the day. And you can see pictures of Tony because he's tallering and everybody else. He just stands out in the crowd and he said, oh, yeah, he saw him. Meredith was wearing a bright green suit. He was just out in the max and Paddy was a gorgeous seventeen year old blonde girl. Yeah, Tony saw him from the stage, and he saw the Angels see him too.
Now let's talk about the Stones and the delay. You talked about the weather changing and the mood and increasingly got worse, and again without any kind of services at all, that this was just an increasing and obvious chaos almost everybody at first they might not have been able to see it. So let's talk about the Stones and their delay and why there was a delay, and what their attitude was despite what they least they could hear and were told about the Angels.
So the Stones always claimed that it's bass player Bill Wyman showing up late that caused them to go on when they did. But that's full. They weren't going to go on until it was dark. They were making a movie. That's what this was all about. They were going to film all the other acts in the daytime and they were going to be the one act of the night time. Why because stars come out at night. So that's what that was about. There was them, they were going on
before dark. They were outrageously making audiences wait on that tour. They didn't care when they went on. I saw the second show in Los Angeles before them on that tour and they didn't come on until four in the morning. They didn't want to follow out Contina Turner, who had been put on a little too good a show. So that's not really why the Stones didn't go on until then. They went on at dark because what.
Was the state of their awareness before they went on in terms of potential danger and some of that you talk about in the book, the naked fat guy was a tease knocked out. So there were some people out of control and other people who were also out of control exerting some good beating on a man like that.
So they walked in from the helicopter. Richards had spent the night there pretty much the question in his backstage, dressing them a little trailer. But the rest of his guns walked in through the chaos, and they saw him and witness what is going on, even if they didn't see any immediate like beatings or anything. But they got back there and people fetchers Michelle Philips as the Mamas and Papa's been there all day, told them what was
going on, and then they left. The angels, you know, the Sunny Barger of the Oakland chapter and his guys showed up about five o'clock just before sunset, filed right all the way through the cloud. They got back and introduced to the Stones. Sony thought they were a bunch of dishies. And they've certainly had plenty of angels around them, you know, acting as a guards and escorts and stuff like that. And you can see in the movie when they pushed through the crowd to get to the stage.
That is quite an intimidating scene. There's usually two hundred people on the stage and many, many, many large and violent looking menacing figures, all crowded around the band and and as you watch the movie you can tell, I mean, the angels just marauded throughout that set. What happened was the third song of this set was simply for the
Devil and Sunny. Barger of the Oakland chapter saw some kids from the audience jumping up and down on a motorcycle and shorting out the battery and setting a fire, and he dashed into the audience to knock the kid off the bike and put out the fire. Well, all the other Angels saw Barger, and they just followed. They didn't know what he was doing. They just they just followed him into the crowd and just start laying waste in the front row. The jagger stops the dan and
starts pleading with the audience. Brothers and sisters, what are we're fighting for?
Uh?
But it's just bloodlust now. And they start the second They finished Stucimity, then they start the next song. They had problems with that. They started the second time, and that's when Predith Hunter pushes his way to the front of the stage and gets a Hell's angeles shoving him back down, and then he goes back up to get in that guy's case, four or five angels tackling from behind, and they start stomping him and kicking him. He gets
loose from them and pulls out a gun. That's when Alen Casorrow, San Jose Hells angel standing nearby, reaches down to his ankle where he's got a knife in his seat, and does a pure wet and jumps on Hunter, stabs him in the neck, and as they follow the ground together, stabs him four more times. The angels swarm over him, and Pasorrow is separated from the Hunter, and the angels continue to stomp and kick Hunter and stand on him
and finally leave him alone. A couple of concert goers managed to get him up and carry him to the lip of the stage and they put him on the stage. Everybody saw him, everybody. I talked to people on that stage and they all saw this. It didn't happen long because the angels just came swarming over this and push
the body back into the audience. A young doctor intern named doctor Robert Hyatt had answered the call for the doctor of the stage happened to be standing there and he said his arms had hurt for the next week, but he carried the hundred backstage to medical camp, and doctor Fine, the head of medical there, took a look at Hunter realized that nature of his wounds clearly possibly mortal have put another doctor on the reviving him, and wants to try and get a helicopter to Metavat did
you ever find anybody in charge or anybody that would give him the infermission to use the helicopter? So he called the ambulance. The Hunter died waiting for the ambulance. Now the stumps. Meanwhile on stage, they don't know what to do. They've just seen this body and it's the all concert just falls apart, right, And so the young guy, Mick Taylor new guitars. He says, let's play the new one,
and Jagger says, okay. Well that Tuesday they've been in Alabama recording, and Saturday that at that point, after Mareth Hunter's they publicly debut their new songs Brown Sugar and let me tell you, the concert comes back together in an instant. I've heard these sixteen track mixes that Bob Matthews is the Grateful Dead recorded that day he played them for me, and his living them is the only
place you could hear him. And Ah, the Stones played great and the beatings continued, and by another sort of weird trick of fate, instead of being blinded by spotlights as most performers are on stage, the spotlights never showed up. So the only lights they had at Altamont was fifty thousand watts of back lights, and they used all of it and it made the front rows entirely illuminated the stage.
So all these beatings they had taken place, the Stones are seeing them full living color, which they're not used to. And they powered through another hour of the show after Hunter's death, and they never stop again. They just keep going. And there's problems there was trying to climb on stage, and they just play their flats off just I mean, Charlie Watson and Bill Wyman they had locked down, and Keith Richards and Mick Taylor, their guitars are grinding together
like bears and jaggers. He's singing this really convincing committed thing, you know, like really like he means it, not not that grouping characterizations that he sometimes gets into. So you know, they were terrified. They were surrounded by all these manazing figures, they were witnessing all these beatings. They couldn't figure out anything to do but play their show and get the hell out of there. And they where to go. They hid in the music. They buried themselves in the music.
They that's what musicians do. It's it's just, you know, kind of heroic.
There was a more than was there was a basically essentially a threat from the angels that they weren't going to get off that stage. Richard was quite vocal and had said some things, and they both maybe Richard's a little more wholeheartedly, had said, well, we're gonna quit, We're gonna stop. Wasn't there more than an implied threat that they better continue?
I don't think there was ever anybody who was going to take that seriously. The idea of stopping and walking off in the middle of a set one of three hundred thousand people and pitch black out of this cow pasture didn't seem like a really safe, secure idea of to anybody. So I think, you know, Keith Billy was very the anthem rooster. Hey, those cats stopped at and we're gonna not gonna play with with these huge guys that could break him in half, standing, you know, a
stepping away from him. I mean that was definitely from gutsy stuff. Boy the horns, they say, and Jagger, I got a Jagger credit for really trying to you know, put oil on troubled waters and really you know, reaching into the audience and trying to relate and get these people to wise up and be with them. And that goes on all through the set. At the end, when he says goodbye, he says, well, we have some troubles,
but there's been a good time. That isn't in the movie though, you know, the movie is not a very active partrail of the event. Oddly enough, you.
Talk about really a couple essential characters who introduce Paul David Cox and Baird Bryant. So explain who these two people are and their role at Ulti Mont.
Paul David Cox was one of the concert goers who carried Hunder to the stage, but more importantly, he was an anonymous caller to Rolling Stone magazine who gave an incredible first person account of Hunter's beating and killing. It became the lead section of the Rolling Stone cover article. And it's just the sort of thing news magazine's dream for. You just get dropped right in the middle of the action. So subsequently, of course, he was a important witness in
the trial, and that's when he disappeared. He was reluctant to reveal his name to Rolling Stone, and I believe he's only identified by a single name, And in fact, this journey had a hard time finding out who he was, and then when they did find him and he ran away, they only found him just a few days before he's before he's supposed to testify. Far Bryant was the cinematographer who actually captured the Hunter assault on film. He didn't
know it at the time. He was lying in the prone position on the top of a dam behind the stage shooting of the hol on stage action. Eric Sarnon was also on stage with a camera and saw the scuffle. Both Bryan and Sarno hit their zoom button, but Eric Sarnon hit the wrong way, so he zoomed back. Bryant hit the right one and zoomed in. He never knew what he got on film, or even if he's seen anything.
He just sort of followed his instincts until the film was developed and they saw the dailies and realized that yes, indeed they had the killings on gat Bryant was interesting by the way that cinematographer that shot the cemetery cemetery scene, an easy writer, has a long background in Bohelian life in Paris.
Now you talk about the exit. You alluded to the helicopter. When we're looking for a helicopter be able to fly Meredith Hunter to hospital. It was reserved and nobody could. He said, well, I got to get authorization and nobody could find anybody to authorize the helicopter. So that's why the ambulance was called and he died as a results. So other people jumping the copters, other bands they leave, they jump into crowded copters and they get out of there.
What is the you do? You talk about person drowning, but more importantly you introduced a guy named McDonald, so quickly talk about the other crazy deaths that occurred at ALTAM McDonald.
Yeah, five investigators got to do that town Jim. Yeah, he's a surfer, stoner fireman down in Santa Cruz. I remembered every ride that he got hit. Tacking to the show, a met some friends, he got high on asset. He had a great time, split up with his friends, and he's leaving. He's walking out through this dark field. He sees his car started moving slowly and he said, hey, you know, give me a ride and go where you're going. He does, I'm going to Santa Crash. We're going to
San Francisco. He says, I'll that be good. So they opened the back door and slays room for one more. He gets in and he's tacking this couple guys in the back seat. There's a young gallon a baby in the front, and another couple of guys driving them and sitting up the front, and they don't all know each other. They're all sort of like you know, ride grouping up and they're going through the cloud very slowly. They get up to the highway traffic still clouded, so they decide
to pull over and make the fire. And Jim has a blanket because he remembered. It gets cold up there and hits like with two there and he gets this flanket out of his napstack and he pulls around his shoulders and his fists and sort of tugs it tightly together, and the next thing he knows, some guy is shaking his shoulder and here's the guy say, hey, this one's
still alive. Some acid craze concert guards stroll in the car under their assumption or beliefs that he's being chased by Hell's angels, drove it through the exiting cloud at speeds up to sixty miles an hour of The Highway patrol figures guests to the top of the hill, launches, crashes down on this campfire, kills two people that Donald's sitting. The next dude seriously injures the young mother and McDonald man.
He's pulled out there by a highway patrol metavac. He dies in the helicopter and has to be brought back to life in the emergency room, where he's blatlined. Mother comes up to hand or his possessions, and he's got this blanket right, and on one side of the blanket his body, his outlines, his squirts of blood, and the other side is a tire attack.
Yeah, well, now we missed one little profound point, so I'll just go backwards just a little bit. When Meredith Hunter is stomped and Meredith Hunter has been stabbed with a big, large knife. And there are people go to help him, Paul Cox, another concert goer. And what did the angels say to those people and to Patty about Meredith Hunter laying on the ground, Yeah.
Leaving alone. He's going to die. Don't cry over him. He's not worth it. Yeah, those are bad guys. On the other hand, you know, Uh, you pull a gun in the crowd. Uh, that's a very difficult uh decision to make. Uh. And uh my detectives got to do that. Who was a former Alameda County Sheriff's homicide and that's getting worked on this case. Uh. He said that Allan Tosorrow wasn't held angel a public considered as he ro so and and keep in mind, to Sorrow was acquitted.
The sound not guilty, Uh because of Hunter pulling a gun. Who knows whether he saw it or not. Who knows who intended to shoot? Uh? Certainly from all accounts and from the film, you know, it looks like he pulled it in self defense. But you know at that point you've updates in the game, and you know that what happened happened that you noticed that I refused to call the murder wasn't a murder, right, was a killing.
Now there's the story that you tell, and there's a story that Yan Winner and Rolling Stone, you know, break out of their relative obscurity and into national headlines and importance. But tell us it was amazing and surprising. Tell us what the reaction is. First in the New York Times and other the Examiner and other papers, how do they report on what everyone else saw? What was the quite different story in the news the next day. In the following day.
Yeah, it's crazy, Yeah, three hundred thousands say it with music, was the Sunday newspaper headline in San Francisco. The guy went on to go on great length about how well the groovy time was having. Young people are getting together. Oh yeah, some guy was gab to death, but really it was a wonderful day in the sun and the New York Times a parly I said the same thing, much shorter, because of course, you know, it was happening
out on the West coast. But they noted the death of concert go what was otherwise a flying you know, Woodstock like festival. That was the accepted myth at that point. But Woodstock myth was so large that the media was the mainstream media who were you know, not hit or or with it or at all. But they just read it as like, oh, yeah, somebody died, but it was another woodstock, you know. Yeah, good Rolling Stone to the vaults. They're
real in Canada and that that, you know. I mean, they were so far I heard the homicide investigators had to come over and get an advanced copy of the magazine to figure out what their case was almost about.
We just alluded to it, but tell us where Rolling Stone really succeeded and had a coup in terms of witnesses that really opened up the story for him and revealed the truth about what actually happened.
Well you know, uh, the truth that actually happened. The Rolling Stones themselves have never really opened up to it. Their whole attitude is the grateful Dead and Hell's Angels responsible for this. I mean I ran into Ronnie Snyder in Los Angeles couple of weeks ago, he's the producer of the tour. He pretty much said the same thing. Oh yeah, you know, they went through with it because the Dead insisted on it. Uh So I don't think that's that just doesn't make any sense and it doesn't
fit with the facts. What fits with the facts is you know, a really dangerous, volatile cocktail of of of greed and innocence. Uh and and the Stones uh uh I think we're builvi had lots of both of those. And that's what happened.
Pardon me, I'm What I meant was what was the key for Rolling Stone Magazine in terms of how they broke this and what was their coup in terms of how they discovered the truth about what happened as opposed to what was being reported as some you know, further loving that had occurred at three hundred thousand people lollings down.
To put a team of eleven reporters on it. These were hit guys. They were from the rock scene. Went square all the time newspaper reporters. They saturated the story. It's twenty thousand words, couverished pretty much everything that's in my book almost and did it the week afterwards. It's the extraordinary piece of journalism. And they were, you know, you know, supervised by imagineer John Burks, who was a veteran of Newsweek, so he knew what news magazine stuff was.
It wasn't just an undeydound newspaper guy that had never had a tough breaking story before. But they did great job.
Now with this as well. Like you say, the police are playing catch ups, so with this they have now an idea of who they may question because based on this, and everybody's also awaiting film from a cinematographer that, as you write in the book, she was accidentally dosed on acid and spent about eight hours underneath the bleachers and then rallied and got some amazing footage. So tell us about this this fight to who was going to be
able to see the footage first? Tell us it's a profound story, the stones, the angels, and the police, who gets to see the film and how everybody reacts differently.
The filmmakers were very protective of their daily as they hit him. They got out of town with film before anybody noticed they were gone, and they took them straight from the lab to place out of Malibu where a
director and I associated with the project lived. They were really careful to find out what they had before they found out before they showed anybody, and they brought him up to San Francisco about a week and a half later, and they screening at Francis Coppler's American Zold trop studio for the two district attorneys who then took the footage and had blow up skills made from him. They didn't know what they saw. They couldn't identify the guy. They
didn't know what to do with what they had. The guys who were investigating it couldn't figure out where to go with this. They first ran down to La and chased some rabbit hole down there. Rolling Stone magazine was more health than anything. I mean, they didn't seem to be any big hurry to get out to the traft. They could go out that night because of the traffic, they didn't really go out till Monday, two days later. There's weird investigation. It took them three merchs to fine
to sorrow. He's been in custody since Tuesday after the conscience on another charge, obviously.
And they didn't even talk to Patty for a week, didn't they?
Are they talking to Patty on Monday? Yeah? Yeah.
Now eventually, again it's not easy because the angels aren't aren't going to identify. They put a couple of angels that they suspected through polygraphs, which led them to believe that they knew something, but nobody was going to give up this name. But eventually, as you mentioned, Pasario Alan Pasario, Pasero gets charged. He's already in jail on a pretty
heavy two to ten already. And it's crucial because the film and the people who did the film and are there are crucial witnesses, reluctant witnesses that are set for this trial here that maybe nobody was, you know, anxious to put these people in front at a court, but really they do so.
People are very worried about. Angels are very known for intimidating witnesses, and it was widely presumed that the Faro was going to go down for this since this obviously he did it. George Walker was the brant defense at Trinity the Angels hired is San Francisco's first prominent African American attorney and also integrated the basketball team at UC Berkeley as All American after the war and graded the
Air Force sixty one bomber missions. Quite by an amazing guy, and he played with Johnny Cochran saying finding for Johnny Cochran made sure that the Sorrow got an entirely all white jury, which is not easily due in Oakland, California, immediately underlined almost every witness the prosecution brought, and then especially the damning piece of film place the prostitution thought would show that to Sorrow killed Hunter, and actually what turned out so the jury was that Hunter pulled a gun.
So George Walker was still a lot ninety two is a brilliant, wonderful man, and he saw this all the way. He said, he never thought he would lose it.
Now you chronicle in this book as well, that disaster seems to happen. I mean, obviously, the the the love Piece generation failed, or it seemed. And this was a concert that many have spoken about, was that catalyst or that end of that that dream. But bad luck, and extremely bad luck follows a lot of these people, bands and managers and all kinds of people. So tell us a little bit about the litany of disaster that followed the people that were involved in Altamont.
Oh. Yeah, it's such a I mean, I don't want to drill to you down, but you know, the airplane was splintered within a few months. The stones were never the same, the dead were never the same, angels were never the same. Perry of transmitted suicide. The dead's manager responded with all their money that the Stones went into a dark period of lawsuits and and drugs. I mean, oh no, it was. It was a terrible tale spin. How are we doing on time?
We're just almost gonna wrap up. I just wanted to ask you what this at the end of this, What if anything that you didn't set out to unlock or determine. Is there anything at the end of this that was surprising to you that you did were able to conclude from all this research and this investigation in Teltamont.
So there was there was no like big new discovery like I knew about the vehicular manslaughter even if Scott do that didn't I literally read upon it. So there was no big like aha things. But the extraordinary detail, almost granula, of how heedless and irresponsible and violent and darkness was that game as a surprise to me. Uh. And and the power and the propulsive uh nature of this narrative that that that surprised me to uh. And it's more not any one detail, but the whole accumulation.
Well, I want to thank you very much Joel for coming on, and I want to tell people too, with this Altamont, the Rolling Stones, the Hell's Angels, and the inside story of Rocks Darkest Day. There's some fascinating photos in this incredible photos and the incredible history backdrop that you present here as your roll as of Rocks are Analyst, is just a fascinating step backwards in history. I don't want to thank you very much for coming on and
talking about Altamont. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much, Joel Selvyn.
Thanks an, take care you two.
Good night.
