ABOVE SUSPICION-Alan R. Warren

then female bodies were found. Soon this quiet town Tweed, Ontario was in panic. What's even more shocking was when an upstanding residence stood accused of the assaults. This was not just any man, but a pillar of the community, a decorated military pilot who had flown Canadian Forces VIP aircraft for dignitaries such as the Queen of England, Prince Philip,

the Governor General, and the Prime Minister of Canada. This is the story of serial killer Russell Williams, the elite pilot of Canada's Air Force one and the innocent victims he murdered. Unlike other serial killers, Williams seemed very unaffected about his crimes and leading two separate lives.

journalist and author and podcaster Alan R. Warren. Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Alan R. Warren.

big involved in the war. So he took that job, moved the family over, and they moved to Chalk River.

And you know, that was about nineteen sixty nine, and his mother was pretty much a stay at home mother, but she wanted to do more, and so what she did was she started her own business and it was working with children and children with difficulties, and this was kind of unheard of, and what it did was, at first it created a little rift in the community because in the sixties, what good wife would go start a business and ignore her family or not take care of

her husband and kids. That was kind of the tone back then, and so in mainstream community she wasn't real popular. Now. At the same time this happened, the nuclear plant happened to take on a Czechoslovakian man, Jerry Sooka, and so him and his wife moved to the same Chalk River to do the same type of job because they were both immigrants, and probably because Russell William's mother was feeling isolated in the community, they tended to lock onto each

other and become good friends. And this was a they did everything together. And this is where there's a little bit of talk about the family, you know, because there was a swinger sort of club going on in kind of an underground part of the city, the town, and that they were said to be part of that, and so that was, you know what, we don't know how much truth is in that. That's why I said there was a rumor. We don't know. But they spent a lot of time together and did everything together, and the

boys grew up pretty normal. Russell, for instance, he played the piano, he belonged to the school band, he delivered newspapers, always did things right, his grades were quite good. It was quiet, very very respectful. People said he had great manners as a kid, behaved quite well. Uh, never got himself into trouble. You know. It was kind of an all in all, pretty pretty good family scenario at that point. But where it changed was probably within a year of

them being there. For for some reason, his mother, Russell Williams's mother took Russell and his brother and moved out of the house, and the story around town was that his father was having an affair with missus Sofka, the Czech couple that came over as well. So she filed for divorce, and within four months the father and missus Sofka were together. And because again there was so much negative talk about that kind that was a scandal in

the sixties, and so they moved to New York. They up and left, and the mother ended up getting together with mister Soka and in fact marrying them, so they swapped partners. Yeah, And because of the again more talk, and because nobody would take their kids to her business, she up and moved to Toronto. So that's kind of the early days in Canada when they were small and what happened with the parents, and it's so it's left.

You know, his father with the new wife has moved to New York pretty much dropped out of sight, and Russell and his brother or living with the mother with a new new father stepfather in Toronto.

And they were just really into it as kids. But when they got into the school school and even into college, none of them went for that sort of thing. They all headed into the In fact, Russell went into economics and did four years. His brother became a phg d. He's a family doctor. So they didn't really take it serious, but they were really involved in it excited them. And just when he graduated from the university, and not even before they're out of the dorm, he shared the same

dorm room with Jeff. His friend, and he came in and said he's going to join the Air Force. And Jeff was like, what's that all about? Right, this is crazy, And in Jeff's words, he said that he thought because at that time, we're in the eighties and Top Gun was a big movie and that whole thing was going on with Tom Cruise, and he thought that he was just you know, catching the wave, as you'd say, and kind of getting into it. It's the trend. He's excited.

He wants to be that pilot, you know, that sort of thing. And he didn't take him seriously. So it was a surprise, one of the first of many that was going to happen. And so he went that direction and Jeff said, well, you know, he's my best friend and I'm there for you. Man. It was these kind of words and if that's what you want to do, do it, But in his heart he thought it was last year.

the house. They had six roommates. He was the one that gave everybody schedules. This is this is who cooks today, this is who gets the groceries. Here's zoo cleans. He was very organized. He refolded his clothes all the time, and even when they had little parties in the dorm room, he would just sit in the back and fold his clothes and refold them over and over all night long. So he was just very quiet, and they figured he

was a little more shy. So nothing, and all of a sudden, so he you know, they graduate, he gets into the Air Force, and this is the late eighties, and all of a sudden he comes up to Jeff and says I'm getting married. I want you to be my best man. And Jeff was like, what, who? I haven't even met anybody like who you? And he introduced him to Mary Elizabeth Harriman, who he ended up marrying that July. So it took them from February to July to be made and it came out of the blue.

And that was again another one of those surprises that took him off God, and he couldn't figure it out where this person came from. He liked Barry. She seemed very polite, very nice, She was a smart girl, she was going for her degree and pretty pretty like. He had nothing bad to say about her, and they seemed to get along quite well. But it was just where did this come from? It was like the Air Force thing, Where did that come from? And so that was two

big shocks on him. And I'm not sure. Jeff seems to be pretty easy going and when you talk to him, he seems to be pretty oh, okay, I can take that type person. So he's not offended by it, but just really surprised that this is the same guy that he lived with for six years and they did everything together type thing. Where did you meet her?

That's Chumbuck Casino dot com.

think he's telling me the truth. But the other side to that is, if he didn't know about this woman that all of a sudden became his wife, and he didn't know about the Air Force that all of a sudden became his career, maybe he had at that time some secrets that he was running a secondary life somehow that he could make it on you know, not unseeable to Jeff.

And you go on, tell us some of the really important things you talk about in nineteen ninety four, tell us some of the stuff that he is involved with militarily and the status that.

in charge of Trenton. So that was probably the biggest boost for him. And the other thing is he was going for his masters in defense, and if you look at his master's deposition, his whole his whole thesis about going in and attacking first in Afghanistan and taking taking over. He was he was a warhawk, and he was very aggressive in his thinking toward battle, reorganized in that way.

And so he really rose to the top almost immediately because they what he had did in the Secret base as well as his thesis made him look like he could be a war general down in the US easily, and they thought he would work really well with the Americans. So he was the right person and at the same time he was able to sell himself publicly, so he showed up at all the different events, the charities would

shake hands. He had a really good presence on TV. Tall, good looking, always pristine, dressed well, well behaved, you know, perfect manners. He was the perfect candidate to go where he became the head of the largest air force base in Canada.

And when they'd go over to the neighbors for coffee, he would always get up and get get get her coffee, or get her drink for her, refill it, carry it for hold the chairs, take her jacket. He was extremely well mannered, and the neighbors thought, what a nice, nice guy he was, because he was quiet, he was polite, and he was so good to his wife, and yet

and a good, good military man. And she talked more than they did as couples, so most of the neighbors tended to get more information from her and more about them as a couple from her. And but again they loved her too. She was a caring person. She wanted to be a you know, a great help in the health community. And she rose quite quickly up to being one of the executives of the Heart and Stroke Foundation. So they were like, consider it the perfect couple.

bathing suit or you know, minor things. And at first people looked at it like they misplaced it, they lost it, something happened to it, and they didn't call the cops, right, So there was quite a few of those, And how we found out was later, once all of the terror of the break ins hit, everybody started thinking back, oh, remember I lost this when I lost that, So we're sort of lost it where it started and how much

it was. But what we do know is how he would specifically scope out places and break and enter and and nobody would notice. He would he would do it with precision and take undergarments and sneak back out. And you know, the first actually the first ones that we knew know about, would be his, the Murdochs, the neighbors, and Tweed the one neighbors and he, uh, he went in and he took all the little the twelve year

old girl's underwear drawer, completely emptied it. And in fact, when they got back the second time from a trip, the daughter came down and said, you know, I know, my underwear draw's empty. And of course the parents and both of them when you talked to him and said, well, you know, she's never been the neatest and the first thing you say is that you check the laundry basket or maybe the floor, you know, you know, because that's

how she was. But when the mother realized that there wasn't one pair of her underwear left was the first time that she brought it up. So she called the police, and then the police came and see and this is where it kind of broke because when she found out about this, she went to the town meeting and told everybody because the police had been keeping it secret, so

it hadn't been out in the media. People weren't realizing this was going on, and she brought it up at the town meeting, and of course other people jumped on and people started reporting. The police. Now when we talk to them, said that only about fifteen percent of those break ins were reported, right, that's the rest of So he was doing it very very well. And not to mention, a lot of the neighbors trusted him. He is a colonel. He's upstanding man, a very nice, polite man. And they

would go away. They would tell him, you know, the Murdochs all the other neighbors would say, oh, yeah, we're going away this week. We're going somewhere for two days. Keep an eye in the house. Sure, I never thought second about it. Why wouldn't you. So that's how that That's how it went. Now. The other thing is too we looked at at that time and we were thinking

Tweed is where he started. But actually in Orleans, the same sort of thing had been going on a few years before after they had moved to Orleans, but the police did not tie the two together. And you know, I'm not exactly sure why, maybe just the distance and the type of policing and how involved they were with each other's communities. But up in Ottawa, their break ins were not tied in with tweeds break ins.

And this was one of them. This is really kind of the stepping stone was after Alaska, within you know, a couple of hours from his trip, he had already attacked this girl and tied her up, blindfold her and assaulted her. And now so this was kind of a step older from what he was doing before. Now he still would take a lot of her undergarments, and he

had a strange way about this too. He would have them tied up in a chair and blindfold it, and he would take all their clothing and he would try all of the different clothing on himself as well as the girl and take pictures. So it's not like he was just having sex with them or assaulting them or doing something like that. He would actually be doing It's almost like a photo shoot, spread or catalog it. He

would put them all in order. He would take diferent outfits and put them together and take pictures and film wearing it. And he seemed to have this obsession which was kind of unusual, you know, because you could see him taking undergarments and different girls clothing, you know, maybe as a trophy or as different reasons, but actually be taking them and trying them on. And then he wanted

to do it in front of them. And because he would have them blindfold it, he would make them touch him wearing it, so he'd be wearing their panties and bra and make them with a hand feel his body wearing their clothes.

when he was filming, you could see him. There was no hidden he wasn't hiding himself from the camera. Then he would have steel cameras, two of them, and he would throw them on the chair or the bed wherever they were tied up, and he would be filming the whole process. But anything that super excited him, he would stop, pick up the camera and start taking pictures. And it seemed to be the things that really excited him were

certain angles that the clothing was at. So he would lay under let's say, the right breast and take like eighty pictures, you know, just a certain angle, or whenever he got blood. So there was times when he assaulted or he was hitting them and blood would come out, or they would fall to the ground. He would stop and take a big ball of pictures. He was obsessed with getting still shots of the pain.

in this incredible book. Let's talk about the murder of Corporal Marie France come o, and and let's talk about how he met her, how they wound up working together in two thousand and nine, and then tell us a little bit about his method of operation and how he makes sure that well, some of the will say the work that he does beforehand to pick and select his victims.

as well. She had flown all over all over the world and taking more foreign dignitaries in her career, people from you know, Egypt and India and Australia and things like that. And she had actually done one of these trips with him that went all through Canada. So they had one big project they did together. So that's how they met. And she was corporal in the same Trenton Air Force Base that he ended up being the wing commander.

So they knew each other from working together on one main thing and that's about it as far as information you get. So that's how that happened. Now for him, why he chose her. I can't really say. Later in the interviews he just said that he didn't care about any of them. There was no specific reason why he chose the people he did, so you know, we're leaving that. But what he did do is he would find out

where the person lived. So he found out where the corporal lived, and he would wait so he would make a setup. So if it was close enough, he would plan his day by jogging around and he would jog and look and try to get all of the different schedule that she would have and try to see who was there, who was coming in, who was that coming out, and kind of what kind of lifestyle she was. And then when he found out when she would be gone, he would sneak in, break into her basement somewhere, and

he would go through the house. So he would go up into the bathrooms and into the bedrooms, the drawers, and this time he was looking for anything to do with the man. He wanted to make sure there was no male visitors, like she wasn't having men that were staying overnight, or there wasn't a boyfriend living there or a brother or anybody else. So she looked, so he looked everywhere for anything that would show if there was a male involved, and of course with Marie Kimo, the corporal,

there was none. She was dating a man, but they were not living together, so that's how he would do it. And so eventually he waited for the time, and when the time was right, he knew that she was going to be alone. So he gets to her place about two hours earlier, breaks in the basement and waits, and in that particular case, he waited and a couple hours

later she came home. She was on the phone for a little while talking to her boyfriend, planning different things, and then she was going to bed, so she hung up. But she in that particular case, she was looking for her cat, and she went down the stairs to find

the cat, and she spotted him, spotted his eyes. He had a mask on, but she saw his eyes, and that's when the struggle began, and he actually took control of her, beat her enough times, and he hung her on a hook in the basement from her on her back, and he tied her up and blindfolded her. And then while she was there, he went upstairs and he did he hung comforters over the bedroom window so nobody could see.

He also would take her keys and break them in the locks of the doors all around the house in case somebody else come here, so he would get notice. You know, he was very well planned. This was all thought out quite well. He was thinking about all the things he could and couldn't get away with and setting up different things. And then he went with her. He went back downstairs and untied her and unhooked her and was taking her up the stairs, and then she jumped

on him and started a big fight. And that's when he hit her on the head a few times with the flashlight and then smashed her head right into the wall. There's huge dent, and she passed out, fell on the floor and tons of blood coming out. And that's when he would stop. You see, we would know because he would stop and take eighty pictures of the blood slowly as it's running across cement floor, and he wanted to almost catalog it, get detailed pictures of every movement that

blood made. Yes, it was just incredible. And as it continued, he took her upstairs, tied her to the bed and blindfolded her and raped her, attacked her several times and beat her several times. And again he set up the tripod, filmed the whole thing, and he just would do this

for hours and hours, and even after he killed her. Yeah, you're right, he had to go meet with the intelligence that morning, so I think it was five point thirty when he was finished, and by eight thirty he was in meeting with the intelligence, and the intelligence agents picked up nothing. They had no idea. He wasn't upset, he wasn't nervous, he wasn't anxious, he wasn't unhappy. He was he was normal Russell. He was perfect chipper, top of the day, right on top of everything, just as he

always was. So they didn't they did not have a clue that that's what he was up to, just as shortly as three hours ago.

He left Prince, He left blood. He left all sorts of things as if he I'm not sure why, because how you could be so so calculated and so planned and so protected in what you were doing, and yet you would leave, you know, you'd walk through the blood and walk up and down the stairs and you'd just wipe things down and throw it in the wash and kind of leave. And it almost it almost almost almost two people, you know, doing the same event, Like the first guy was planned and calculate it one the second

one was somebody different. And that is eventually how he got caught.

The plumber was there and they were talking outside and Commoe's boyfriend pulls up and he was more worried because she didn't show up for work one but not only that, she had just got back from one of those big flights where she had flown all over with dignitaries, and she was on the phone the night before to him, planning a lunch date to talk about the people she had met and things that happened on the flight, and so there was no answer in the phone, and so

he was worried about that, and it was lunch, so he almost lunched. So he had it to the place and actually had her keys from her mother had given him the keys, and he went inside and found her dead and came running out screaming, and that she's dead. She's dead. Anybody know what happened? Anybody see anybody strange was his cars, and of course the neighbor and the plumber came over and everybody was in shock. You know, this is you know, a quiet, little sleepy rural community

that nothing like this has ever happened. And so of course all the talk came, and then soon the police came. He was pretty devastated, way way beyond what you would normally expect. But the police cleared him pretty quick when they came down and started doing the search and talking to all the neighbors and canvassing the area, and they took him in requesting and stuff, and he was cleared pretty quick.

that he could do that and fit the part. There was nothing unusual about the way he behaved, and if you look at that and look at those scenes back then, he was totally acting as he should have.

And so he started running by, and for some reason, something about her caught her eye, caught his eye, and he made it a pretty regular thing, and he got to know her time frame or patterns, and so he decided he'd check it out, just as he did before. So she's gone out, he drives up and with her particular lot. She lived in a house, and there was an empty lot beside her house, so it was an

unsold empty lot. And so what he did was he pulled his pathfinder into that lot and waited to make sure she was gone, and then he walked across that lot and broke into her basement sliding doors. And what he did was he checked out the house again. So he goes up through all the rooms, the bathroom, bathrooms, drawers. He's looking for any sign of a man or anybody else that lived there. And he found no signs of any any males at all, nothing, and he had never

seen any you know, in all of his surveillance. So he uh so he comes back out down to the to the truck and leaves. And that was this kind of as you know, his way of doing it. So then he must have planned it. And that same day, a week later, he comes back exact same scenari, but this time he's gonna wait for her. Now. The difference is when he pulled into the lot and he's waiting, a car drives up to the front of Jessica Lloyd's house and they leave their lights on. They get out,

walk up to the front door, ring the doorbell. Wait, nothing happens, so they get back in the car and they leave. Okay, So then about maybe twenty minutes later, Jessica Lloyd comes up, parks, gets out, goes into her house and goes upstairs, and he waits until it's all pretty much dark, and he figures she's gone to bed. Then he makes this move, comes across down through the sliding doors in the basement, up comes into the bedroom and attacks her. He thought she was asleep. Actually I

described that. How you know, he was so good at breaking in and not leaving any noticeable brakes, you know, on the doors or the handles, and he would even sneak up to the room and a lot of times he could set up his tripod and his camera and then attack the woman and they hadn't even noticed, So

he was very, very precise. But she opened her eyes when he was in the midst of attacking her, and so he beat her quite severely, and he tied her up and continued to do the same sort of thing, took off his clothes and he raped her several times. Now this was a step up as well, because then he started doing things that were a little bit more aggressive.

He like he tied the metal strips around her neck and would twist them so that she would choke, and then he would force her to do things and if he did, if she didn't, he would he would kill her choke her. So he started being even more aggressive with this one than he was with the one before. So he was upping his game, as you would say, he was getting more violent and caring less for the for the victim. And this went on for hours and

then there was a bang, a noise somewhere. It startled him threw on his clothes, and he wanted to know if she had anybody else coming over. She said no, And so he picked out clothes, put it on her and shoes and dragged her out, threw across the field into his truck, and he drove her home. And then he took her into his house and he took her upstairs and made her shower, raped her again, tied her

up and beat her and raped her again. And then she also tried tried getting away by pretending she was having convulsions, and he believed it for a while, but not anything, for she never got away. And then and all the way through it, of course, she was doing the same thing. I don't want to die. You're not going to kill me. Please tell my MoMA I love her, and through all this, and you're not going to die, he would say, and all this, and then of course he takes her down to the car and he kills

her with the flashlight. And he took over seventy pictures of her dead on the basement on the in the garage. That's where it was. He stopped and took all those pictures, and and that's sort of this is sort of where not only it causes him to get caught. But he also when you talked about Larry Jones earlier, this is kind of the key part here because his neighbor in Tweed, the other one, Larry Jones, was a retired grandfather and lived alone or actually had a wife. Yeah, I'm sorry.

And what happened was after this killing happened, he went over to Larry Jones the next day, who would go hunting all the time, and he said, Larry, what do you hunt? And he said, well, partridge hunt partridge. You know that, don't you. Oh no, I didn't. I didn't know. Where do you go? Where do you set up your camp?

And of course Larry told him why I go up, just describe where the camp was and said that's where we set it up all the time and it's great for hunting, and oh great, Well, you know, have a good day. And Larry Jones at the time even said that it seemed kind of weird that they've been living for years together and seem out of the blue. When he got back from that hunting trip, he had found that someone broke into his shop. Larry Jones did, and when he went into the shop, he was worried about

all this equipment and stuff being stole. Nothing, Nothing was stolen. And later he found out that he had an old, dirty jacket that his dog would sleep on while he worked in the shop, and he had a pair of gloves that he would use that were pretty old and rady and had cut stains and blood on it. They were both gone, and what he had done was Russell Williams had gone in and taken those items and wrapped them in the body of Jessica Lloyd, and then he dumped the body of Jessica Lloyd up at the camp

where Larry Jones was doing his hunting. And it became a little bit even more intense because there's this story too that Larry Larry Jones's son, who was working at a sears and was friends with Jessica Lloyd, the girl that was killed, got a call from Jessica, you know, something about what her water pump or something was broken in her house and needed help. So the son calls up, you know, Larry Jones, because he's a neighbor, and said,

can you go over and look at her. So, of course Larry Jones goes over there and tries to fix her heater pump, and or whatever she had in there and put his prints all over the place. He fixed it for, didn't charge her and left. So now you have. Now you have Larry Jones prints all over Jessica Lloyd's house. You have parts of his clothing wrapped in Jessica Lloyd's body and is dumped where he goes hunting. Yeah, you could,

you know, you couldn't ask for a better setup. And of course the police questioned them, arrested them, rate at the house, and of course when that news came out, nobody in the community would talk to the Jones. He was evil, bad, he did it. He's awful, and that's kind of where the community was at at the point. So yeah, so he he didn't just kill he was setting someone else up to take the fall for it.

like the total professional. You'd have no idea that he had a body, you see, And when he did that one, he still had her body in his basement, you know, Jessica Lloyd was still wrapped and done because he didn't have enough time, so he just kept her on ice, so to speak, while he went to work and can do like I said, a really high pressure and do

it very well. It did not affect him. But I will say in talking to a lot of analysis and psycho and psychologists throughout this, it seemed to me that in order for him to be calm, he had to do this.

let's say, his job, he felt out of control. In order to feel into control again, he had to go back to the time when he was a kid to achieve that. And that was that was back in the day where his mom and dad were together, and you know, it was considerate that his father used to slap his mother around a lot and was quite rough with her. So he was trying to find that calm spot and so what would calm him down and bring him back

to normal was committing this act. And that's why they were elevated, and they lasted longer, and they were more aggressive each time because the pressure seemed to be getting higher with his job.

And so both her prints and his shoe prints were all across because it was in that winter ish but melty winter season, so there was some little bit of snow, but there was definitely a lot of mud, and so they tracked those prints right across from her back basement sliding door, right to the to the truck. And then plus when he came in, he didn't take his shoes off, so his prints were all all around there as well.

There was a blood in quite a few places, and it was just a really sloppy cleanup, and they knew right away something had happened.

rung the doorbell, and then left. That happened to be a policewoman for the police department, and what it was was she had seen the Pathfinder, Russell Williams and the Pathfinder in the vacant lot in the dark, so she thought she would check on the door, you know, check on the house. So she went rung the doorbell to see if there's anybody home, see if they knew anything about that, see if things were okay. But she didn't

go any further. She just turned around and left. So she described that to the police, and so they knew they were looking for that. So they went out to the field and they started taking tracks of the Pathfinder as well as the foot tracks, and so they decided to set up a roadlock and just start checking for people driving by the area with the same type of vehicle or tire, and quite a few were going through.

And of course, you know, this was the luck of I guess William's turning, because normally he'd take his BMW to work him back and just used the pathfinder for you know, side things, nothing major, and this happened to be the same night he decided to take his pathfinder to work. So on the way back, he got stopped on the roadblock and they noticed his tires matched and it was the same type of vehicle. So they put him on a list and they let him go by

and he went home. But that list, they started putting people on surveillance that were on the list, and that was kind of the break. That's how he first got spotted, and that was the thing that stuck out. And it wasn't long later that Detective Smith decided to call him in for an interview and he did it on I believe it was the Football Championship Sunday, the Great Cup Sunday. Told him to come on in and that's when the interview started.

the whole body language. It's like real kind of yeah, what do you want? You know, And and anytime at the beginning the detective would ask him a question and he'd go check, yeah, like he was being real kind of a why ass. And even when the detective said to him, well, have you ever had your rights read to you before? And he's like, no, have you ever

been interviewed before? And then of course he plays the old Well, I've had interviews much tougher than this, you know, in order to become top security, I've had some pretty big interviews. Like so, he was a real smug, real kind of you know, he was trying to talk down to the cop in that way. That's how I took it.

we're here for. We're too sexual assault and a couple murders. So he confronts him right away.

and all the tests. And then then he then he said, well, can we uh take your boots and check those as well? And he let them take his shoes, his boots, and and within two hours, like I said, then he holds and he uh shows him the tire trucks. Here's here these your car was and and that's how he put it. Your pathfinder was parked there, Your shoes walked into her house. Your shoes were there when she was murdered, your shoes and her shoes went back to your house, like like

you know, he just sort of put it all. If you're not wearing them, somebody was wearing your shoes. And between the that, that and that, that's when Russell started kind of being on the defensive and kind of kind of going, well, what's going to happen to my wife? What's going to happen to the house? And that that

was kind of the break. So within an hour after that, when they kind of agreed on a few things, he pointed out he just said, where's the map, I'll show you the body and he pointed out, just.

something goes wrong. Technically it gets thrown out. This is this is something that wouldn't get thrown out with the confession. With the confession, so if he could get him to write letters saying yes I did, I'm sorry, I killed your daughter, I'm sorry I did you know all these letters they could still have that into evidence. So that was kind of a backup plan that Smythe had, just just to make sure in case the confession didn't count.

Now that that part of it ended up being kept out in the trial, so that that whole part of the underage stuff and that was kind of the sore spot because what happened was the prosecution decided to keep all anything to do with pitiophile out of the trial and the charges if he would confess guilty. So he just took the took the plea of two murders eighty eight break kends, I believe, and two assaults and put away for life, no parole, and there was no trial.

It would just be a redout in confession or you know, a plea and that's it. And so it was kind of done to protect the media or to protect the military.

that they found. You know, it was very very it was very involved, and they just thought they would just kind of not mention it and walk away and just put them away, replace them within a day, and melt is you know, burn his uniform, melt his metals, strip them from everything, replace them within a day, put them away for life. Done and it doesn't come up, it'll it'll you know, just go away. And I think that's wrong. I think it's a bad thing to do.

So I think that they're being overprotective of something that it's you know, he was mentally mentally, something was wrong with Russell Williams and he did these crimes. But the whole the whole air Force is not bad because of it.

concurrent sentences for everything. So really he's only pleading guilty to something that he would certainly be convicted of with the overwhelming evidence of the records that he kept and let's let's just talk about You talked about all the pantees and all the but there's much more, like sex, toys and photos and videos tell us just not the numbers, but just the full extent between Tweed and his home of stuff. Evidence that they found at those locations.

she does. So they do the tests and they find there was thirteen Duffel bags, I believe there and now in the bags would be all the clothing, you know, like and he started out with just panties, but it got to where he was taking dresses, shoes, bras, bathing suits, and then pictures. You know, he would go into a place and go through their photo album and take pictures for himself and leave whither is see he was getting

more brazen. He would then he would leave a couple of their pictures on the band so they know he was there, you know, And then he'd go and he took like vibrators. Then he started going into the mother's rooms and take their vibrators. He had eighteen vibrators I

think was the total. But he would take a picture of his penis laying over top of the vibrator and then leave it for them, or he would take a picture and put it onto the computer of the woman he took it from, and he would say something, usually in French, but he would say thank you very much, or I can't wait to see you tell the cops what you had stolen. He was really being he was like playing Koi with these people. He was taking all these things and being almost pushy. And when he did,

he also would film all of his stuff. So it was a girl that he attacked, the film would be in there, all the pictures would be in there, and none of it was hidden. So they found all of it pretty much at ease. And so that came to the question is if they could do that, why did

his wife not know it? You know, at least if she didn't know how he mustn't have been worried about her finding it, right, I mean, it wasn't hidden the way, and there was tons and tons of evidence, And the other thing is okay, so after the police find all this stuff, do the search warrant, come back. The first day she comes back, the wife, that is, what does she do? She calls her lawyer and sues the police for scratching her hogwood floors. Yeah, got that didn't make

sense to me. You know, if could you imagine you're at home, had the police come and says, okay, your partner's spouse has confessed to murder. This is a search warrant. We're going through the house. You got twenty minutes, get out, We're going to go through stuff, and you leave. They do the search, and then and then you come back home. The first thing you do is call and say they scratched my floor. I want them to come fix it. I mean, I don't know. I think it's it's but.

door neighbors they're Murdochs. When they were away three weekends, he would go in and he would set up the tripod, lay in the girl's bed, twelve year old girl's bed, take off his clothes and wear all of her clothes, try them all on for hours, and then do that again the next night, next night. And so what he did was he filmed it and took pictures and would put that on his desktop so it would be under her name, and it would be all the events he did with her, even if he never attacked her, just

with the clothing. So that was all over the desktop. And she's not a stupid more and they're sharing that for emails and stuff. I don't know. I just I leave that open.

she is. She's probably back in England. She has wealthy parents with the big oil company and she's probably somewhere there.

they they found him, they caught him in time. He didn't die. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead.

was because she was blindfolded and attacked. And remember when we were talking about the Larry Jones, a neighbor, and with the jacket and the different things, the fingerprints that they had, well, when all this was happening, she testified that she thought it was Larry Jones's voice, so that that kind of threw the book at him, and he since has come out and said that that was only because it happened that Larry Laurie Mascot and Larry Jones.

Their two kids were involved in a marriage and they had a really bad breakup, really bad breakup, and he's saying that's the only reason she identified his voice. So I have to mention that because that that, you know, it added to it and it made life worse for him.

And the other thing that I found interesting was how the Murdoch's, the next door neighbor, the one where he had, you know, six bags of her stuff, a twelve year old girl, they bought his cabin at Tweed right, well right, And that's that's kind of very unusual to why they would want I mean, a girl was murdered there and

all of the things that happened and they bought it. Now, they did an exclusive interview with mcclean's and they said that it was only to protect it from becoming a place to go, becoming a you know, like a B and B or something to someone making a business out of it, and that's why they bought it.

little towns. So yeah, it does change it. You know, I still think that they would have things still would have happened. They wouldn't have caught him at that time, but it would have changed, you know, just the whole ground that we worked on, so you know, to actually sue them, and I know that that's going on, you know, with that Lorie Mascott and some of them had sued the police for that and and I know there's some problems there to blame them. Well, I wouldn't have been

raped if you would have done this. I don't, I don't know. I'm not I don't see it that way. I don't think it would have been solved, and I don't think it would have stopped the attack from happening. But you know that my guess is as good as anybody else's. I'm not above on knowing the real answer to that. It's just it's so hard to look back and say, right, you know, I don't know, go ahead, sorry, I just I don't know how you feel about that.

I just you look at it, and yeah, it would have changed the playground and the way the police were dealing with it, But I don't think it would have changed William's behavior. Yeah, I mean, it was too soon in it, and he was still getting more and more and more. He was still doing what he was doing.

And just because police were looking for a serial killer or it was publicly notified that there's a serial rapist something going on, I don't know that it would have changed much because you know, along these terms, the Scarborough rapist was going in, Paul Bernardo and all of that was going on the same scenario, tied up, blindfolded, beaten, and killed and raped girls in the same age groups. It didn't stop Paul from doing it. I don't think it would have stopped Williams.

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