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Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. Oh we're talking true crime all the time. We're so happy that you're here. It's Tuesday, June twenty fourth Wild Night of Headlines everyone, so again, settle in. We were just saying, this is my favorite two hours of the night, so I'm so happy that we're all here together. Listen this Diddy thing. Diddy is going to have closing arguments. The prosecution apparently may rest as soon as Thursday, so so much on that.
We have a very special guest who is back. Matthew Lee Russell of Inner City Press is back and has been in the courthouse and is going to be reporting to us live, so we can't wait to have him in the next segment. And then also Travis Decker, father accused of killing his three daughters. He remains at large and his now ex wife and mother of those three beautiful children speaks out for the very first time. And also we have some new developments in the Brian Coberger
Idaho college murders. Once again, the defense is stacking the deck, and apparently one of his former jailhouse security people guards if you will, is apparently going to speak in his favors. So first and foremost, let's get to Diddy. But before that, I'm Stephanie Leidecker, I head of Katie's Studios. We make true crime podcasts and documentaries. I know we're probably sick of hearing me say that by now, but I get to do that every day with Body move in and
Courtney Armstrong and this incredible team. And we really want to hear from you. So eight eight eight three one crime. Please join this conversation. Lots of headlines to get through, but we really want to hear from you. So, Diddy, Courtney, where do we want to begin?
It will start me go take it away, Body, I'm doing it. It's gonna be me.
It's gonna bead jumping.
Day twenty nine. Can you believe it's been twenty nine?
Day twenty nine in the trial against Diddy Comb's there was another full day of testimony from summary witness Joseph Circiello.
He is the special Agent for Homeland Security.
He's doing the summary witness testimony and just a quick recap. A summary witness means somebody that's presenting a lot of like super complicated evidence in summary fashion and making it like super digestible for the jury to understand. So it's a lot of evidence all at once summarized and.
A lot of texts just like lots of stuff kind of summed down.
I guess it's like.
A succinct version of a lot of complicated information. Right. The defense did not call any additional witnesses. The prosecution and the defense rested their case today. Done, it's done. Closing arguments are expected to begin Thursday, but we don't know for sure, but it's expected to begin Thursday. So prosecutors are alleging that from two thousand and four to twenty twenty four, so for the past twenty years, did he operated a criminal enterprise that involved kidnapping, arson, bribery,
and sex trafficking. He used his influence in the music industry to lure people in and he's facing life in prison. He has pled not guilty to all these charges. It's I mean, today was a big day. They're done, they're closing, They're done.
I'm so curious what your thoughts are in terms of just the optics, you know, is it a big finish? The prosecution is resting, their court has gone tomorrow, they're off tomorrow or at recess tomorrow. So this was it. This was the big, the big crescendo, drop the mic. I don't know about a summary witness being emotional enough, you know, sometimes, you know, reminding everybody the emotional stakes involved can really be moving to a jury. I wonder if I feel like they just kind of went out
with a whimper, yeah, instead of a bang. You know, it just was kind of like a whimper.
Well, I agree with you from the defenses, excuse me from the prosecution, but I think the defense actually had their way a little bit with this witness. So Boddy, if you want to explain a little bit more of what went on with Ciriella's testimony, sir, I think he defense got their bang.
Joseph Circiello showed text messages from Jane where she appeared to be a willing participant, like in this this whole thing. He showed Jane texting a male escort. His name was car Burrolay, Am I saying that right? Carbroley Carburlat car Brolet, he is a male escort. In December of twenty twenty one, he sent this text message, Okay, now listen, don't don't get grossed out by me saying this. It's not me saying it. Okay, This is Jane to him Tody, no, no, no,
I'm sorry. Coberlet to Jane. Copy it's a pretty court to Jane. The escort to Jane, understood a pretty intense night. That was the roughest sex we've ever had. Loved it, and Jane responded, definitely one for the books. Damn baby, you got me so hot. Listen, I feel really dumb saying this. You want you want to come back tonight
or tomorrow morning. Several days after the six change, Jane sent him the escort travel arrangements, so it made it appear like Jane was not only a willing participant, but like actually engaging and like arranging, you know, for all this to happen. The jury also saw text messages in which Jane, again she's a pseudonyme, appeared to express her love and appreciation for Diddy. I'll never take you for granted,
one message, said. The defense showed. Text showed texts suggesting Ditty and Jane tried to hide their sexual activity from the staff, which is going to go to, you know, racketeering. The racketeering piece, like, not all the staff was involved. You know, they didn't have knowledge of this. It was Ditty's private life. You know, it's it's all this. So in one two thousand twenty three message from Diddy it said, you find place I can't have KK. No, yeah, you
wasn't arranging all this in this particular case. Again, I'm not accusing KK, but in this particular case though, just to say one little quick thing here before we move on two pieces to this one that might have been the case that day that you know, who knows what else was happening at Comb's Enterprises where, you know, or maybe they had had a combo, maybe she was giving
some pushback, who knows. But maybe just because that happened one time, that doesn't discount the many, the many years of this and you know, again, if she knows that he really wants Apparently, according to Jane and Cassie's testimony, they sometimes use the same escorts because they felt as though a that was more intimate, meaning they meaning the victims felt that at least they a little bit had some familiarity, and sometimes that felt safer and a little
less scary. So for if you know that you have to participate in these things, is it possible just putting it out there that maybe Jane or any of the victims were engaging with the same people and showing some sort of excitement about that because it was more of a controlled environment. Again just playing devil's advocate, because again, this is complicated emotional stuff, and I fear when we whitewash it too quickly with one broad stroke, some of
the nuance might get lost. And for victims that's really hard.
It is, and I don't discount any of that. However, taking this is actual testimony, and you asked why not the big bang? For the defense, what this does prove? And even if it was just this one day, the defense can say, oh, look, this was Jane, she was doing the arrangements. Look her and Ditty. Jane and Ditty are saying you know, KK can't know. Therefore there isn't collusion.
These aren't people who are working for Ditty or orchestrating these it's people doing it quote willingly, And to ask your question out.
Yeah, has anybody ever been with somebody an ex or something again, just go with me here for one quick second where you just knew things were terrible somewhere in the back of your head, but you know, somehow you still like put that aside. You ignored it because your feelings were involved, so you sort of said what you maybe shouldn't have said out of contract.
Make excuses or make your excuses.
And sometimes you make those excuses and put it in a text because you want to, you know, gain back some footing or make them feel comfortable, or you know, think about it. Some of this stuff was so intimate and you know, graphic that I think, according to Jane's testimony, at least it felt almost like she was the only one that was in this little intimate circle with Diddy and his crew, and only she knew him in this way.
We also know that's not accurate, but you could see how that could get real twisted if you're already going into this, you know, wide eyed and with rose glasses. I'm just playing it out a little bit, but I do think one text exchange or even the.
Jury is going to think like that. That's the important thing, right.
I Yes, and where I stand is looking at this as evidence again taking emotion out of it. Of course, what this exchange shows, or what the defense argued that this exchange shows, is that Combs's staff was not involved in this exchange that is being read on cross examination, and they weren't engaged in organizing or funding the encounters, which is what you need for the rico charge. We are talking about really the ditty trial coming to the very end. Give us a call. What are you thinking?
Eighty eight three to one crime and we have a talk back?
Hi, True Crime tonight, love the show. Did you guys see that Diddy personally told the judge today that he was doing a great job. That really rubbed me the wrong way because it just seemed so arrogant, like he's super confident that the judge thought he'd get off, you know, just because he's famous. He's sure he's going to get away with it. What did you guys think of that?
I so agree. I could agree with him more.
It goes a line gross, It goes in line with not calling anybody. It's like, look at are we are very confident in our case? Like that that the that the prosecution has not proved anything.
I just think it falls in line with the hubris of it all. And how about the.
Fact that these women and victims and assistance and people have really put themselves on the line. So whether you like it or agree with it, it's not for us to decide. It's hard for me not to get emotionally attached to some of this stuff. But I feel for Jane. I feel for his ex Cassie. Even so for Cassie, she had a baby, she was pregnant, you know, God willing, she was.
Ten years of her.
Life were dedicated to this dope. So here she is like sharing these intimate, horrifying details. People are the jury is seeing these tapes. How vulnerable and you know, demeaning must that feel like in the moment, But you put it all there because you want justice well.
And her domestic abuses out there for the whole entire world to caculate on commonly make fun of exactly, you know, it's it's I feel bad for Cassie.
I do too, So I also feel bad for victims to be to come forward because why would you you know, this is like again, like I thought, it was like pretty bold for this group of women to step forward to say like, yeah, this is something I was into for a minute and judge it if you will, But like then it got really crazy and out of hand and I wanted out, but I couldn't get out. And now I'm being you know, revenge porned, and like, these are really intense things.
So they put.
Themselves out there. They have to face the person who's done this to them. They know they're dangerous. They've seen the CNN video of you know, did he beating Cassie with one hand while he holds up his towel. They know what the repercussions are, and yet still they showed up. Cassie Ventura still showed up nine months pregnant. She went into labor two days later. And now he might get off. Its seeming like I took a vote right now, and
we did in the studio. It was seeming pretty I might be the last man standing here on guilty as charged, which is kind of scary for those who stood themselves, who put themselves out there, I should say they are I'm especially being a community right, yes, like that puts a target on your back by very dangerous people that we did prove he's dangerous.
Lots more to discuss Matthew Russell Leaf from Inner City Press is joining us. He has the inside scoop from inside Diddy's courtroom. Later in the show, it's Pride Month. We're going to be highlighting Matthew Shepherd and how much he has impacted our society. Give us a call eight to eight through on Crime hear true crimes in it.
Matthew Russell Lee from Inner City. He's here because he's been inside the courtroom at the did He trial? So Matthew, welcome back.
Glad to be back, Glad to be back. I'm resurfacing. It's coming to a close, so I'm glad to be back on before you know, it's decided one way or another.
It's the home stretch.
Matthew, what are you thinking before we say anything, what is top of mind coming out of today?
I know it's a big day.
Tomorrow court is not in session and then Thursday could be closing arguments. Did he or maybe he'll be home by the weekend.
Well no, no, I mean I actually think that just for in terms of scheduling tomorrow. Sadly, we do have to cover something which is the charge conference, the ever important charge conference in which they argue what the legal instructions are going to be to the jury, and that's actually pretty important. I think that's I think sometimes you know, people get I get a lot of responses as I'm live tweeting this, so people react. I'm not saying emotionally
is wrong. It's important to like know how you feel about the thing, but a lot of it is going to turn on the legal instruction given to the jury. Plus just so people know. It seems like now that the closing statements are going to go for Thursday and Friday and the jury was it was said late today by Assistant US Attorney Comi that the jury probably won't get the case, i e. Start deliberating until Monday, so they have three days before the holiday. So that's that's
where that stands. But if you wanted to the thing, believe it or not, like today was really a roller coaster because it seemed that the defensive cross examination of Special Agent Cercelo was really I thought it was very scattershot and it had it had me feeling like, if this is all they have their law, they're they're they're done, meaning the team Diddy, and it's hit. Didty and his nine lawyers or ten depending on how you count them. But the rule then there was something called the rule
twenty nine most yeah, exactly, it's basically it's done. It's sort of it's almost every defendant does it. After the government rests, you say they didn't prove their case, don't even let it go to the jury. And most judges are never going to go with that, because you if it even got this far, it's obviously a close enough question to go to the jury. But they their arguments and it's kind of a preview of what their closing will be and what their appeal if he's convicted, would be.
And I have to say, I don't like to say I I know how you not just how you all feel about it. Having sat here, I think Diddy is one of the most weirdest and sickest people that I've seen come through the courthouse. And yet and yet they do have some arguments, and so I don't know if if the arguments will will will we'll have traction with the jury. But I could see some of the arguments having some traction with an appeals court.
We just recently were doing a poll even in the studio here. So honestly, like if you had the same poll yesterday, it might have had a different answer, but as of today, most people around in the studio today feel like he's going to get off. I'm the only one that thinks, for like, say that you did, you did. I could see it in your eyes, and I also, yes, I.
Can tell yeah, I know, I can see that. It's it's it's it's difficult, it's sort of I think it's I think that I think the jurors would be hard pressed not to. It's fun. There's five counts, so I don't want to. I don't like predicting things, but I would be surprised if you were if he were found not guilty on all five. I would. But I definitely think that there are problems with the Rico charge. Everyone
has said it from the beginning. Yeah one, And it's not just as simple as saying, you know that Rico was passed like for the mafia. Right, So it's trying to apply to other things, but it's often applied to drug gangs. But usually the enterprise that it's it's directed at is a criminal It's a criminal enterprise, meaning like the whole goal of the enterprise is crime. That would be like the Banano crime family or the Bloods or
the Crisp or that, you know what I mean. And this is like it's a it's a business empire totally based around one individual. And then it's it's it's really depressing in terms of like being an intern or or you know, being a personal assistant, because there's no question that these people became now I don't know what percentage, but a big part of their job became preparing these quote wild king knights and bringing drugs to combs, you know, And so it is, it does. There's criminal there's no
question that employees are the enterprise. We're committing crimes for the boss. I don't know. If I don't know if that's Rico, then I think like maybe ten percent of the business of the United States. I was going to say, Cinic could be Rico, right, because all it takes is somebody saying like, hey, I'll help you cheat on your taxes, right,
I mean, these are much worse crimes. But if the idea that if any of your employees help you with your personal crimes, your business is a Rico enterprise, it's it's You're going a long way with that.
You said you felt that the defenses questioning was scattered. Did I hear you correctly?
I do?
I do?
I think, yeah, I think people. I mean, it's difficult when the government ended with with this this. You know, he's a summary witness. It's not like agents Orcelo knows anything about the case. He basically, despite being a highly experienced, you know, twenty year veteran, they basically give him underlying exhibits and say, you, who are a respected special agent, should testify in court that the charts that we show to summarize the evidence is actually backed up by the evidence.
So Comby spent a good day with him. Basically, they you know, because so much of this trial, uh, you had the live testimony of Cassie, you had the live testimony of Mia, the witness known as Mia, and the witness known as Jane. But so much of it is about text messages that they just had. They've we've had probably four days of summary witnesses reading parts of text
messages back and forth. And the government wants to emphasize, you know that the that Jane or Cassie said I don't really want to do it, and Combs was like, come on, let's do it, and and then and then on and I it's totally the right of the defense to say, wait a second, aren't there other exhibits in which Jane and Cassie say I really want it and that and that's really it's kind of and so the people that are that are disgusted by Combs are disgusted
by those questions because they're basically cherry picking things from in both cases pretty early on in the relationship in which the person was still in love with Combs.
Yeahline, no, it's not math you I want to hear. Did he hus been complaining about the sketch artists? He's been saying he's making me look like a Koala bear. Do you think that's a fair assessment, like or do you think it's optically like what he wants?
Yeah, exactly. I think I think that was a very I think he wanted to highlight the fact that he's become this I agree, this kind of like harmless old guy.
Yeah.
And also, by the way, I know there's there's two main sketch artists here on stn Y. And they also work sometimes down the street in the State Court and they always get complaints's. They're both very good artists. It's just that nobody likes how they're portrayed. Nobody, and also people view that people view these court sketches depends on
what their politics are like. During the Trump trial down the street, if they made Trump look, you know, somewhat normal and even sort of like younger than he really is, then then then Trump detractors would say, you're a propaganda hands. And of course one time they one of them drew I think Tom Brady, and didn't make him look good enough, and he got a lot of firestorms, so I think, but I think I will say this about Shohn Combs.
He's definitely it's very limited what you can do as a defendant unless you testify, and today he confirmed that he was not testifying. But he's done everything that he can to impact the trial without testifying. He's nodded at the jurors today, the simple, the simple, alu Kish exactly the elocution. He didn't get in trouble for this today, and I think it was he wasn't in the presence of the jury, but it showed the way he's thinking.
He was asked, you know, mister Combs, you know, how are you feeling today by the judge because he has to ask him, do you know you know that you could testify and you're choosing not to? He said, I'm feeling fine, and I just want to tell you, judge, you did a great job. And the judge was kind of like, there's no money in.
Your pocket for any time I have anything to do with it. I'm not saying that taking any money, but like you know.
Always too smart to be swayed. But yeah, the judge is too smart to be swayed. But I think it does show. I mean, I think also I believe Combs must believe defendants. Do he believes he's going to be exonerated? Maybe he does, well, he always has them. He definitely doesn't think he's going to lose, because if he really thought that on the current record he would lose, he would testify I exactly.
You would be throwing everything at it. Does he know something that we don't like? He really does seem like he thinks he's going to be home next week, which maybe is the case.
I think he's probably convinced, not that all twelve and there's no universe in which all twelve are going to say, did he thumbs up? Great job? Bro? But I think all he needs is one. The thing is that everyone thinks that, and here in SDN Y at least, and I think in the federal court system as a whole, you know, everyone thinks that. And then the conviction rate is like over ninety five percent?
Is it really? Oh, I do not know that.
That is the rate. That is the conviction rate. So it's it's that's why. Sometimes that doesn't mean that it's automatic. And I've seen since I've been covering it here, I've seen what often happens is either a mistrial, Like a mistrial is a big victory for the defendant, even though in this case it wouldn't be that great because I'm I'm positive they would put him on trial again. You know, oh yeah, absolutely, are they really believe in this? They
believe in this case. And I think I think in a way that the sort of what makes it hard to win this case is is that the victory it's not the conventional victim, right, it's not. It's not I mean, let's put.
It this way.
It's not like a runaway was turned into a prostitute and then tried to escape and couldn't or that's right, that's yeah, Yeah, they I mean, I was going over even just before calling in, I was. I live tweeted the this real twenty nine motion argument by by Alexander Shapiro, who's like going to be the appellate lawyer if he loses, and it was very she said, it's it's kind of mean, but she said, like, it's not. It's not coercion to not be taken on a yacht trip to Turks and Caicos,
Like that's not what forced. That's not And in a way in the in the government's theory, I think what they're trying to do in part not in part. I think they saw everyone saw the CNN video and they said the law has to be able to get to this, and California authorities didn't do it. It was beyond the statute of limitations. This seems much worse than even domestic violence. It's a it's a whole company, you know, used to conceal these horrendous sexual, weird, sexual and abusive things, and
so they wanted to bring the case. But now they're in a position where it's this philosophical issue of is it coercion to say I'm not going to pay for your house unless you do a freak off, which is pretty much what Jane was told. That's beyond the there was one. There was an evening of violence, and I'm not but as she said, they're trying. They're very much
focused on the economic threat, but at a very high level. Right, If somebody is impoverished and you say I'm going to cut you off and throw you in the street if you don't turn trick, that's coercion. If someone's living in a gated community and has is getting five thousand dollars a month in child support and you say, if you don't perform it, you got to move out of the house, is the jury going to find that coercion.
Listen, we are not done talking about Diddy and Matthew Russell. Lee will be back and we have much more coming up. Keep it here a true crime Tonight, we have a very special guest. Matthew Russell is here also from Inner City Press. He's been in the courtroom in the.
Diddy trial, literally in the beehive, reporting and doing such great journalism. Thank you for being with us, Matthew, because we have some top line questions and we know we have you on borrow time. Here's the biggest question. No, we're all divided about it. It's one loaded question. Where are the celebrities, where is KK the chief of staff? And why is there no defense witnesses being called? Is that strategy or just confidence?
Yeah? No, that is exactly I mean. I think it's weird. It's not unheard of for a defense to say to basically just put in exhibits as they did today. It's not unheard of. They had said, of course, at the beginning they might have a two week I remember Mark at Nicholer Day to be as long as two weeks, and then exactly they had a long list. Then they said it would be two weeks. I certainly expected them
to have a psychological expert. I think they may end up regretting not having that, because so much of this turn on what the jury, What the jurors are going to think about coercion? I think what I think. The reason they didn't do it, by the way, is that
the judge very much limited the government's psychological witnesses. A woman called don Hughes, she wanted to talk about coercion and was basically not allowed, so she did a much shorter There was a there was another case here was the Kevin Spacey civil case where he was accused of sexual assault on a on a young male actor, and in that case, half the case were the dueling experts because it was all about knowing and knowing consent. So
I think judges are different. Basically, Judge sub Romanian decided in this case that there were enough facts that to not have a turn on whose expert you know, was more compelling. So I agree it was surprising, But as it got closer, I sort of realized and again, this is this they think. These are very experienced defense lawyers. Who knows that they all agree internally. I mean in terms of the ones who came up from Atlanta, I thought did a great job. And I don't know if
they're having the same input. This is the way they decided to do it, I could, you know. I think that they think that they they've they've they've laid, if not jury winning issues, appellet issues. The thing is that appeals take a long time, and and even if you've got one charge somehow reversed and sent back for retrial, he's still going to be in jail, Like I see, no if he's even convicted of one of five charges,
He's not going to be like released pending sentencing. He's in jail, you know what I mean.
So it's just, yeah, well, he's a massive risk.
I've never seen somebody. I've never seen someone in detention being convicted of anything and getting out pending sentencing. If he were out, you could argue, let me stay out pending my sentencing. And sometimes you can even say let me stay out pending appeal. There was a guy here in a white collar case that stayed out for four years and then got a pardon from President Trump, which I know we've talked about last time. I don't want to get it. Stir that one up.
Because it could be an outlier. Is that the ultimate hump card?
Right like that?
You know, pun intended because listen, is he feeling confident? You know, I'm not going to call any witnesses. Why open Pandora's box and maybe I'll get a part in.
Yeah, there was in terms of the celebrities, I do the one thing I wanted to point out, I agree it wasn't. I think people had this perception there was a whole side of Diddy's life, which were these garish parties in the Hamptons and like we've heard almost nothing about that. I think both sides agreed that that for some reason, I mean, I could see why the prosecution wouldn't want to go there. I'm surprised that the defense.
It seems to me they might have wanted to go there in the sense of just trying to confuse the case and say, you know, he was a very high profile person. Look who came to his parties, you know, I mean, there were some high elected officials, for example, went to these things. I think, as it turns out, these devious, not devious, these terribly violent, sick things that he did, they were not taking place upstairs in the Hamptons,
you know. I think it seems like these freak offs were very much organized by his staff in Miami, Los Angeles and hotels in New York, and they very much involved a certain you know, a stable of about six male escorts, at least the ones that we've heard about, and you know, and Jane and Cassie. The weird thing is that there was late in the trial there was another name, Chelsea was thrown out there. I'm not trying to out anybody that this is the name that was said.
It turns out that there are other of Combes's girlfriends that may have been at least in part brought into this world. And it seems in at least one case, he was juggling two possible freak outs at the same time, sort of like and his staff was saying, like, Okay, we have to get one into a different hotel and not let one.
And it wasn't.
In most of these things. It was like Jane being and I don't mean to it's terrible, but you know, feeling jealous that he was had public relationships with rapper Young Miami in a hotel room. Yeah. But it turns out there was also competition, it seems, among freak off I think that the government somehow decided to they could have gone much bigger with the case, and this is the way they chose to do it. If they win,
then they're the smart ones, you know. And and if they don't, then they have only themselves to blame, because there there definitely are more victims out there, and in fact, there's a dozen civil cases more just here in the Southern District of half of them are male of people saying parties, yeah, and we're drugged and we're given you know, drugs and we're assaulted, you know, violently assaulted and woke up, you know, bleeding, And I don't know if if that's
true or not. And the cases are all at an early stage, but I feel like there's a whole other part of ditty that's not on trial. In this case, they've really sculptured. This is a case about freak offs, about about using his business enterprise to to to you know, bring about these weird performances that that were terrible and that really it's hard to say they were consensual, but they're saying that they were, and they have some text messages that make them look that way.
This thing is going to be unfolding for a long time after this trial. You're the bad so good Matthew came.
I mean, it's fun. I like to do it this way. I like to like really get like like in terms in in actually like live tweeting it. It's made me really focus a lot more. I see. I know other people that are covering it, and there are times where they'll be like, uh, you know, it's really dragging. I'm going to step out. And I'm not putting them down. I'm saying like I for some reason since I started doing it this way. Like if I step out, people are like, what's going on? Why? I get pushed back like.
Well, what you're doing is like.
Super employed during the defense. You know, it's crazy.
So many people rely on what you're tweeting, So it's super important that you're doing and I'm really glad that you're doing it.
Yeah, I don't do it.
I don't love that.
I don't have to do it for every trial, but for this, it's so appreciated it. And I did do it for Gleaine Maxwell. That's one thing I wanted to I wanted to compare it to if you don't mind, is that there was a big trial here. It was after Epstein, you know, was dead. I'm not I don't know how to carry whatever. I won't characterize the event, but after he was reported dead, Gallaine Maxwell was put on trial. And in a way it was similar in this sense that the victims, many of them later went
on to become models. They weren't. This wasn't like you know, uh uh, you know, impoverished immigrants from you know, the Baltic States or Southeast Asia being turned into prostitutes. It was,
but it wasn't it still wasn't this. I think that what she was convicted and I think honestly a large part of it to the jury was this this evidence that he she on behalf of Epstein targeted kind of white generally, I have to say, white working class, pretty teenage girls in Florida and and and and ruined their lives. It felt much more like a victor. It felt because of the age and because of the sort of like socioeconomic imbalance. It looked a lot more coercive than this
does now had a lot of money. But yeah, no one is saying that Cassie or Jay or Jane were poor, right, and I don't think that they Maybe they couldn't, but they didn't go the prosecution didn't didn't go into their backgrounds to say this is why they were susceptible to this, do you see what I mean?
And what about the fact that they couldn't get out? So like another key difference between Epstein. I'm so glad we're talking about this, by the way, and Keylane Max was my favorite topic. I definitely nineteen more years with you.
You know.
The big difference also is the idea that they were being videotaped or filmed or recorded nineteen eighty five the way I say videotaped, but like the fact that they were is video or film of them, and they didn't really want that to be exposed to the world, and that was being used as revenge porn. Similarly, in Epstein's case, you know, allegedly there's you know, people were being recorded and maybe that was being used as you know, collateral damage.
Is that accurate for you?
I think it's.
I mean, I think the I think the reason the Epstein thing has given rise to probably more conspiracies than this case is I don't think he was necessarily filming it to blackmail the women as so much. The idea is that he was providing a sort of like you know, prostitution service to extremely powerful men and has proved right. There was a guy that was huge in Barkleys that they he's lost his job Jess Staley, all kinds of litigation around it, and so the idea and there's you know,
they always talk about massage. I won't go down this hole, but I think that the filming here, he don't I mean, I want you to go down. In the sense of comb I don't know if Combs was filming in the first instance, just to to have have h you know, extortion material over the two women. I think they were themselves. That's what the defense tried to show. They were filming this so that on a you know, on a on a rainy night, they could use it to do. They
had something called when they said movie night. When they said when when when the movie night didn't mean like watching It's a Wonderful life. They meant watching previous porn that they themselves had produced.
Right, But also but it didn't didn't he say he was going to send it to his.
Mom, her mom, And that's going to be a big thing that I'm just saying, there was enough if you really followed the thing over the whole four weeks. I'm not saying he didn't have in the back of his mind when he filmed it. He did. It was coming back from from the south of France. They were sitting next to each other on the plane and he said, I'm going to release this video and destroy your life. And then when he thought that Cassie had left him for Kid Cuddy, he said, I'm going to I'm going
to release the tape. There's no question that you used it for extortion. So I'm not trying to say that that didn't happen. I'm just saying that there's more. I guess I'm saying it seems like in the case of Epstein, the allegation is that he filmed these things to get blackmail material against powerful, poutful Saudi princes, and in that Sean Combs was just it's a different era too, right, So I don't know how many people film themselves in the bedroom, but they seem to like they were just
using an iPhone. It's much easier to film. You don't have to have a surreptitious camera system. They just set
it up. They were constantly finding there's a There was one instance in the trial where one of the staff members that testified found an iPad which he thought was like music, you know, mus editing software, opened it up and found a video of in this fat being with another man and Combs watching, and he brought it to Combs and said, you know, maybe this is not supposed to be out there, And he later got grilled by Christina kuram, did you well, how did you find it?
Have you given it to anyone else? Because Combs didn't want these things to go out because he would be extorted for money.
You are the best, Like Stepanie said, we could have you for nineteen hours. Thank you so much for joining us. You're so insightful. Everyone. Please follow Matthew on x at Inner City Press get all the latest in the trial against Sean Diddy Combs. Also his book Did He Do It Us Versus Sean Combs available on Amazon. Also his book on Galaine Maxwell Maximum Maxwell.
This is my thing.
I think the defense, even though they're not bringing on any witnesses and one that I think they ended, I think they went out with a bang.
And the reason I think that is.
Because the text messages from Diddy to Jane when Diddy says I don't KK can't know. I think that's super powerful because if I'm a juror, right, I'm going to be like, KK is very important.
Why didn't the prosecution bring her on?
And then I see this text message and I'm going to be like, that's why they didn't bring her on because Diddy didn't involve KK in this.
There is no enterprise and that's why I'm hearing.
So KK is Sean ditty Comb's chief of staff, Christina Korum. She's been cited in several of the civil lawsuits and has come up several times in testimony during this trial. And people have been curious where the big dogs are, where the celebrities? Where are the big dogs? KK being at the center of that. And what you're referring to is this text exchange where it sort of absolves KK because he, you know, Diddy himself is saying she shouldn't know.
She can't know about this, right, So that's basically hiding all this nefarious, you know, activity of these freak offs and whatnot. So if I'm a juror, I'm going to be like, well, that's why the prosecution didn't bring KK on because there is no enterprise, and if they brought her on, she wouldn't be able to add anything of value to the case. Kind of like, as a that's what I'm going to be like, Okay, you know, like maybe there's something there. Maybe there's no enterprise and there's
no rico. That's what I'm thinking.
Courtney Armstrong, what would you like to say, Well, I think.
The defense didn't you know, didn't bring her on because of what could have happened in cross Here's deal. I think there's no universe in which KK did not have a ton of knowledge. Of course, so I think that is as a matter of fact in my mind. But to your point, body, what was proven in court was right, Yeah, there is no enterprise, keep her out of it. And if that is the last thing, then the prosecution did the job for the defense.
One hundred persons.
That's and listen, I'm not saying that there was there wasn't an enterprise. I'm just saying, as a juror member, where I'm gettingly.
Allowed, this is like taking on facts right right, And I'm just going to ask, because we have we ever sent a text if taken out of context, oh my god, out of a several years period, does that count? So KK was told to not know about something in this one particular text exchange, you know of it required a summary witness to summarize all of the texts between KK,
Christina Korum, and Diddy and his staffers. And we also have heard an other testimony that you know, they were back and forth the assistance and including with KK kind of being like you know what is happening here right now? Like there was some knowledge of nefarious behavior. I guess the larger question is who was organizing that and who was paying for that? And I guess that's what makes it an enterprise.
I'm so confused.
So listen, I guess there's so much more to unpack here. Make sure you stay with us. We'll be right back. This is true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time, obviously, even talking a ton about Diddy. It's looking like his defense is ready to not bring any defense witnesses to the table and that we're going to rest and there may be a verdict as soon as Friday or top of next week. So we're in the
final countdown of that. Also, Travis Decker, the man accused of killing his three children, remains at large, and for the first time, his wife ex wife is speaking out in its heart wrenching We'll get to that very quickly, Courtney. You want to take us through a little bit. What's happening in this Travis Decker case.
Yeah, it's so much tragedy. So Travis Decker, there has been a massive man hunt. He is thought to have murdered his three young children, and as Stephanie mentioned, his ex wife just and the mother of the children just spoke out. This was when she was addressing a crowd at their memorial in Wnachi, Washington, and in her discussion, she mentioned that her daughter's Petln nine, Evelyn eight, Olivia five,
that all of them were in therapy. They were learning to discuss their feelings openly because their parents were getting a divorce. What wonderful parenting on her part, A beautiful and Whitney. The mom said, I'm so thankful for that time that I had with the girls. I truly hope that the legacy of the girl's lives lives on in everyone's heart forever. They were incredible, So that's something for us to all just ingest for a moment that this mother put out there.
I watched this video and it was so heart wrenching. It's too much. It's too heart wrenching. I mean it really was. I had to do it in small doses.
Yeah, it is just we all feel for this woman and these girls. There's been a little bit of change, seems in the feeling of the authorities running the manhunt, and someone from the Sheriff's office they said, and I'll actually read this because they said it succinctly. At this time, there's no certain evidence that Decker remains alive or in this area. Yeah, seemingly strong early leads gave way to less convincing proofs over the last two weeks of searching.
And they went on to say that they will continue searching. Decker does remain a danger to the public, and they mentioned that they will keep on the search for Peitlin, Evelyn, and Olivia Decker. But that's a change, guys, that's.
A big change, even just from this week, because he went into the woods, you know, really unprepared. We know that he was not he didn't have his medication, and you know, there was some question as to whether or not he was being aided by locals in the blood.
There was that blood on the trunk.
So I wonder why they're making this public state because I mean, seriously, if you live in the area, until this man is found, it still remains a dangerous situation. Either they maybe know a ton of information or or maybe they're not showing their hand.
Maybe.
I mean, we'll see how it plays out. Unfortunately.
I can speak for all of us here though, and anybody who's you know, joining us tonight, that our hearts are deeply with that beautiful poor mother and her kids. I mean, I don't know where you put that, so ye, we could all just send some prayers and thoughts.
Absolutely.
Uh.
Daniel Park he's the man who was charged with aiding the Palm Springs fertility clinic bombing. So he's he's been behind bard and bars and he died in federal custody. That just happened this morning.
That's not society guy they said.
They haven't said, but we know that he Yeah, he died in custody and his cause of death has not been made clear.
So I think that's what makes us in fact, next time we talked to Joseph Scott Morgan, I want to talk to him about that.
Hmm.
Absolutely. So that's just something and it evolved me.
He's a fairly young guy. He's a fairly young guy, so I don't it's not like old age or anything, you.
Know, No, he was.
He was a young guy. So that's something we'll be keeping our eye on and see what goes. Because body, I agree with your assessment. The Minnesota shooter, Vance Bolter, he is the man who murdered politicians in Minnesota and tried to do so for other politicians. So it just came out that he had sent we knew that he sent texts to his this family group. A text and he said that dad went to war last night. I don't want to say more because I don't want to
implicate anybody. Well, the police later found his wife in a car with her children, and she was there with two handguns, ten thousand dollars in cash, and passports for herself and her children.
There's something going on with this dude. I am sorry. I am not a conspiracy person, but there is something up.
This guy had all this cat He was like cash flush.
Yes, his house was paid off, he had seven cars, he had this other apartment, and he worked on a restaurant.
Like, none of it is adding up to.
Me, none of what would that infer to you? That he was maybe he's getting paid by somebody talent, and that he was making these targets in exchange for financial gain to set up his family in a way that maybe as a restaurant worker he would not have been able.
To perhaps, and he was also it seemed like he was putting together his career, his jobs because he also worked what for a funeral home?
Yeah, he was transporting I believe for like a funeral home. He told his friend that he he was removing eyeballs.
Remember this, like, yeah, it's something's going to come out, because I agree, there's just there's something happening here. And
then Coburger, which Stephanie you had mentioned, Brian Coberger. He is accused of murdering the four Idaho students in college and a former jail guard has been called to testify, and it's a guy, a correctional officer where Coburger was taken after his arrest at his parents' house in Pennsylvania, and so he will be testifying for the defense, as will a guy named Anthony Soma who went to school with him. So we'll see what that brings. But witnesses for the defense are coming at us.
That's very good news. And now we have a talk back.
Obviously, Diddy was friends with a lot of famous people, and a lot of famous people are really quiet right now, Well not Kanye, right, Kanye showed up.
He was pretty quiet, though, he was quiet, but he showed up quietly, wearing white. But like other than that, he left after ten minutes, so there was really not much of a thing to be said.
But yeah, why is anybody so quiet?
Well, I wouldn't listen if my if I don't care how close I am, but if my friend is, you know, getting all these allegations, I don't know that I would, you know, optically, for my pr I don't know that I would be showing up and giving him my support, especially if I have inside knowledge that he might be guilty.
True, But if you thought, if you had inside knowledge that maybe he was guilty, wouldn't you want to speak out and support the victims who are nameless?
That's well, but you know, a guilt by association, you know, so they could get their hands dirty, so you know, maybe there's moral struggles they're going through of oh, could I support this in the same vein on cross examination? What might happen one night when I had two drinks too many or whatever? Total speculation on my part, But you really do open yourself up once you go on the stand and.
You're now you're on the cover of People magazine. You know, every text, Stephanie, we're yapping about it forever. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's maybe Jennifer Lopez, right, she was obviously one of Diddy's exes. Maybe she had a different experience and can't really relate to some of.
The testimony that we've heard from other some of the other women.
Yeah, I mean, that's it's entirely possible that he's a totally different person now than he was when they were together.
I mean that's yeah, that's a good point by both of you. But that think in your lives how that's happened.
I bes though on one thing that excuse me, I shouldn't have phrased it that way. But you remember did he has a little bit of a checkered past. Oh remember he went to Howard University and there was this stampede thing that happened. I don't know if you guys are familiar with this story, but oh yeah, they were selling tickets to this big event. He was a college student at the time, you know, really you know, excellent university, and they had over sold this event. Meaning like I'm
you know, this is paraphrasing. These are not the exact numbers, but say they were able to hold one hundred people in a certain auditorium, they oversold it to like five hundred people, knowingly that they were way out of their league, and then ultimately when that place got packed, there was some sort of a stampede. Lives were lost and Diddy
kind of dipped. The assessment was that he was aware that this was going to happen, and that he was aware that this was deadly, and that he was aware that it wasn't going to affect him and life goes.
On, and I think he mayor criticized the mayor criticized him for allowing like young underlings to like plan and take care of all this, but he didn't really face any consequences for it, which is interesting because maybe that's why they're so confident because that's not the only thing that in his past where he kind of got away with something.
Many times, it seems like potentially for decades. You know, we know that he's been associated with this. Tupac not accused of it, of course, but you know, was maybe in the in the conversation at least that's being brought up. So you are, I am, oh, yeah, you think he's going to be home with just by Saturday. I want to go to that trial here we're going to yeah.
So yeah.
And in case you're just not familiar with this, we kind of talked about it a bit last night. Is that Tupac, the you know, acclaimed rapper, was murdered it and Poet Love was murdered, and you know, the insinuation was this East Coast West Coast Rappers thing and Diddy being on the other side of that allegedly that trial's happening, and that trial's happening in twenty twenty six, so just kind of around the bend, and the accusation is that Ditty was somehow involved or had offered money.
To have that hit done allegedly allegedly allegedly.
Again, these are just interesting like threads that we're seeing either not tying up, which I think is really worth discussing, and also some threads that still might So in this moment today on Tuesday to twenty fourth, it does not appear that any of the big name celebrities that have been touted on these lists included by the defense back in the day they said.
Well, we're going to have a hundred witnesses.
Those witnesses that are famous and associated with this case, or at least with Diddy really have not come forward, nor have we seen them, so who knows. Obviously Didy watch remains, so we'll be following that very very closely. But also this killer Dad allegedly accused of killing his wife. After many years, this has gone unsolved. It was Mother's Day, she was riding her bicycle and then suddenly the bicycle
is found, but she is not. And now years later, after a lot of chatter about this, you know, dad of two, his children are older now who have stood by him this entire time, he's brought and brought into custody and that case is going to be an ongoing one and guaranteed to be a huge try. Well, you know, Faddy, I know you've been following this closely. Do you want to fill us in a little bit.
Yeah, so this this case is like kind of complicated, so it's probably something that we're going to be talking about often. We're just going to give a little bit of backstory to get everybody kind of up to speed on where we are today. So Barry Morphew, that is, he was married to su Suzanne. He was indicted Friday for the second time on June twentieth for the alleged
murder of her Suzanne. She was just she disappeared on Mother's Day in twenty twenty like the height of COVID, right, you remember, and yeah, outside I've been Yeah, right after going for a bike ride near their home in Mofat, Colorado. Well, Barry got arrested in twenty twenty one, so about a year later. I think it was almost exactly a year later, actually, if I remember correctly, And prosecutors pointed to suspicious text, unusual.
Behavior, and a little bit of forensic.
Evidence suggesting Suzanne may have been planning to leave him because she was having an a face. She sent him a text saying, you know, like we just need to end the civilly.
I'm done.
I'm being paraphrasing, right, So, but however, the charges were dropped another year later, in twenty twenty two, because the prosecution recognized they just didn't have enough. And once you prosecute someone, that's it. You don't get a second chance, right, Well, Karen Reid, but normally unless there's a mystery.
You said those two words not bad. Yeah, this was the first day I have been Mum's the word, Karen Reids.
So in September of twenty twenty three, another year later, they found her body. And they found her body and it was basically skeletal remains that were discovered along with new compelling evidence that reignited everything. So the new compelling evidence that they found were her bone marrow after the autopsy and whatnot. Her bone marrow contained a substance that's called BAM and I'm not you can look it up. It's it's a lot of fancy medicine words that I
can't pronounce. And this BAM is basically a cocktail tranquilizer that's used on a deer farm to tranquilize deer. And the important piece to note here, Barry is the only one in that area of Colorado basically that had a prescription for BAM. Really yeah, wow, Yeah, So that's basically what they were missing. Now, it's also kind of important to know that her skeletal remains were found, okay, but there were things that made the investigators suspect that she
didn't she wasn't put there initially. And some of those things are her bones were bleached, which means don't be like me. It doesn't mean they were actually bleached with chemicals. They were sun bleached. So she had exposure to the sun for an extended period of time.
Wow.
Her the clone thing she was dressed in like a biking outfit, okay, and the clothing didn't show signs of decomp So that's another thing. Another one was that there was no bug activity or the lack of bug activity, so there weren't like those husks and those cycles of maggots that we that we learned from Jess. Yeah, so they don't believe that she was was initially placed there. They think that she was moved at some point, which is frightening.
If I'm understanding, and if what the prosecution is alleging is true, then her husband kept the clothes she was wearing, put her somewhere where there was no bug activity, and then decided to put these clothes that he'd been storing who knows on her now decayed body.
Well, is that right? Would she?
Is that?
Assuming that she he took her. Just to add to that courtney, that he put her somewhere indoors and we doped her there for a couple of years.
Well, her bones were bleached, so and that means by the sun, right, right, So she was out in the open. And that doesn't mean there was no bug activity there. It just means there was no bug activity or burial site where they found her.
I understand.
Oh, so that would have occurred already.
That would have occurred that her initial resting place, but when he moved her, and he could have gone to a store and bought a new.
Outfit to put on her. Oh even weirder, I know, and her hair mass was gone too, which is wait, what does that mean? I don't know, Like she didn't have any hair. Yeah, I thought your hair didn't go away. It doesn't. Oh, so she didn't have any hair like he cut it off?
Well, I asked Joseph Scott Morgan this on our show on Sunday. I feel slightly and he mentioned, and he mentioned that it's possible because she was out in the open that birds used it for nesting, so they smoothed.
Down and they pick it up.
Listen.
I'm addicted to those balls eagles in in Big Bear, so I know they do this too.
I love that, I know, but not if they're taking her beautiful hair with them. I have mixed feelings. Then this is like a I'm so curious to hear more, but I'm also slightly nauseated. So the idea is that her beautiful body was found without her hair, and she had been redressed by her wackadoo potentially allegedly allegedly husband who was married to her for so many years. They shared two beautiful children that are now adults, and they've
stood by their dad. And he's dressing her after knocking her off a bicycle and drugging her with BAM.
Well, I don't think she actually went on the spike ride.
He think he was faking the bike ride.
Oh yeah, the bike ride is completely made up, either allegedly allegedly allegedly.
Really, this is like a full time job, Barry. So he may be drug he posed he staged.
Evidence shows that that she was because the BAM, which is that chemical that tranquilizer in metaboli in her body, which means that she had basically in her system for quite some time before she was murdered.
Oh listen, I am really intrigued to see what comes out in trial and what evidence is laid out. We want to hear from you. Eighty eight three to one Crime. Give us a call and we have a talkback right now.
Hey, this is Caroline. I'm such a big fan of the show. I had a question actually about the case about the man in Colorado who killed his wife on Mother's Day. So you said she was staying in a hotel away for work, and she was killed on a bike ride. So is he lying about where he was or was he following her for a while, Like I guess I'm confused on maybe the timeline of that.
If you guys have any insight, it is confusing. Caroline, thank you for that, yeah, and thank you for the talkback. It is confusing. So there's no evidence that she actually went on a bike ride. In fact, if you read the grand jury indictment, which I've read ad nauseum a million times because I'm.
Obsessed with it, like it's horrible, but that racks because that's why you're so good. You well do notice every detail and take the time I try. It's really important.
Thank you so it in this indictment it said, God, now I forgot what I was gonna say, because it was important I had to do.
With the bike. It was clarification for the bike ride, and thank you, thank you so.
In the indictment it said that they believe she was killed at home because the location of her phone along with his phone and when it was turned off, like it was connected to a certain tower at the home. Additionally, they found the cap for the syringe that he would have stuck her with in the dryer. I took the dryer apart. You guys, they they dismantled the dryer. I don't know how they was. Yes, this guy, remember there was no bike ride. There was no bike ride. But
he did go to a hotel for work. But the time that he was there didn't really match with this job.
It's a lot.
Listen, there's a lot to unpack, and we're going to throughout you know, the next the next couple of weeks, like for sure, because there's so much and I have a whole timeline I can go over, you know. I mean, I have a whole spreadsheet on this case.
We haven't going to do a whole night on this.
Oh yeah, So I'm understanding it because I do remember when he was first arrested about a year to your point, in twenty twenty one. I remember that, Yeah, and I remember his daughters really standing by him. They seemed lovely beyond you know, he seemed like, I don't know, based on nothing on the news.
You know, I was like, there's no way he did that. You know, this guy's he's grieving.
Well in it that released and so basically what they thought or what you know, Barry and the kids were like, presenting was that, you know, Susanne was having an affair, and she was, she had rekindled a relationship with like an old high school sweetheart, but he lived out of state. And the idea was that she basically went on this bike ride but really wasn't going on a bike ride and went and ran off with this guy.
Right.
That was basically what they were thinking, well what they were presenting to the press and the police. Right. But of course this guy is like, what do you mean, No, Like, I haven't talked to her in three weeks. She's ghosted me, you know, Like yeah, so it's very there's a lot.
Do we know if his children have spoken out since the arrest. I haven't seen.
I know, not that I don't listen, I mean, and I don't expect them to. This has got to be especially this bam evidence, right, because he's the only one with access to this cocktail in like in this area of Colorado. He's the only one with this prescription and he's had it since twenty eighteen because he had this deer farm in it like Indiana, and he stocked up on it when they moved to Colorado, and he's the
only one like with a licensed slash prescription. You have this medication and they found it in her bone marrow. Now this is medication too.
It's important to know. This is horrific and it's not meant for humans. By the way.
Okay, so there's no been, no studies on humans. But it's my understanding and reading about it as much as I possibly can, that you are kind of conscious. Now you're tranquilized, but you're you're conscious.
Oh my gosh, throw away the key, away the key.
Well, listen. Coming up next, it's Pride month and we are highlighting a story not just important to us, but important to the entire LGBTQ community. It is the twenty one year old college student Matthew Shepherd pivotally important. Give us a call eight eight eight three to one crime. We want your thoughts, keep you your true crimes tonight.
I'm feeling a little mad about this very or few case. Thank you for that.
Yeah, it's made me angry. I don't know that I knew that much detail, So thank you for unpacking that. And I definitely want us to keep covering that.
H It's terrible. It's just a terrible tale. We actually have a talk back, and here we go.
That's just Kim and the thought that I've had a few times regarding the Karen Reid case. If the one coup left to go to work at one thirty, where was his car and where was John at the time, I'm very confused.
Well, well, well, isn't that a great question? A little throwback to our Karen Reid posts. The verdict if you haven't been following along as many of us have, Karen Reid was found not.
Guilty of two of the three charges that she was accused of.
She was accused of killing her boyfriend, maybe accidentally, after a long day of drinking, running him over with her lexus on a very stormy night. But she's now been in released and those charges are no longer a thing. Yeah, I throw it to you, guys, because I have a stinking suspicion. You know what my opinion is on this? What do you think that means?
I think it makes no sense. Nobody's doing their paperwork at the office at one thirty after a night of drinking. That is insanity, by the way, So it's in the wee morning, thirty in the wee morning. But the question is so interesting because if what the prosecution says is true, then John o'keef, the victim in all of this, would have been lying right at the end of the driveway of the house, and therefore the officer would have what stepped over it. Again, if what the prosecution allegens is true.
His body is at the flagpole, wasn't it. It wasn't at the end of the driveway.
With the flag poles pretty much at the end of the driveway or pretty close to the driveway. I haven't physically been there, so I hope I'm not saying that incorrectly, Like.
Could you just miss him because he was maybe married in or snow?
It's I mean, if if it's one thirty when he left the house and I don't know that it is, but you know, is it possible that snow was covering I mean, it was snowing pretty hard.
It was a blizzard. I mean, it really was. But how could he not see him?
Yeah, Ryan Higgins, I mean, the guy is an officer and would know how to look for or notice that somebody.
I mean, you know, I don't know that he would have been like where's John. I mean, as far as they knew at the party. Let's call it that at the party, Karen and John just didn't show up.
That's fair. And I guess we'll actually never know if he was wondering about that that night, because there's no cell phone.
I mean, anybody ask him that in trial?
Do you guys know? Like, wouldn't one wouldn't the defense ask him that, Like, Hey, you left to go to work at one thirty? How come you didn't see John out there? If Karen Reid hit him with her car at twelve twenty four or whatever whatever.
Time it was, And why did you get ready your phone? Yeah?
And why did you go to work after drinking all day? Right?
It was clerical work too. It wasn't as though he had a shift or something.
It was like administrative paperwork that he decided to get ahead of at one thirty in the morning, allegedly. We also don't know where he is, nor has he done any of the post Karen read Verdict press.
He's disappeared.
Most people have done press, every one of them that was in that house or at that after party. Not all of them, but the heavy hitters have spoken out, the Alberts who were the homeowners, you know, Proctor who was the initial trooper who covered the case and was a big witness in the first case, and then was you know, fired for his job for his terrible law.
Enforcement skills at that time.
But you know, even he has done, you know, an interview, but we haven't heard from Higgins in reporting them too.
Yeah, the mccabees too, that's correct.
But Brian, really his suspicion was so I mean, there's so many suspicious things with him. You know that he went there to move vehicles due to the storm, is why he went to the police department at one thirty in the morning. Yet he did that inside and is on footage seen with what appears to be a cell phone. So he's not moving vehicles, he's not doing paperwork. He went to retrieve whatever was on that cell phone and throw it in a military base in the garbage. That
is what I think. And I loved that talk back. And now body, we want to shift to Matthew Shepherd. Such an important story so to talk about.
I mean, I remember when this happened, so you know, I'm old enough to remember when this happened, and it was very shocking, even in these times, it was shocking. So this happened in nineteen ninety eight and Matthew Shepherd, he was a twenty one year old gay University of Wyoming student and he was out at a bar and he was you know, basically lured into a car and was brutally murdered. He was murdered by two men, Aaron
McKinney and Russell Henderson. They tied him up to a fence and beat him severely and left him to die. And Shepherd was temperatures too, yeah, right right, And he was found like eighteen or nineteen hours later and was taken to the hospital and he succumbed to his injuries six days later, and both suspects, Aaron McKinley and Russell
Henderson were sentenced to life in prison. Shepherd's case drew massive national attention, and I think this is one of the first cases that I remember a gay person being murdered in it being on news every single night. I distinctly remember this, and ultimately this led to the Matthew Shepherd and James Bird Junior Hate Crimes Prevention Act of
two thousand and nine, which Obama implemented. The Shepherd Burn Hate Crimes Act was a humongous step in the right direction, you know, like for protection, but we still have a long way to go in this country in the current political environment is not favorable, right.
No, And you know Judy and Dennis, Matthew's parents, you know, they became huge advocates after such terrible loss. Remember this was a violent crime, yeah, you know, the likes of which you know, we hadn't really seen maybe at the forefront, so you know, to be left there the way he was.
But yeah, for.
Eighteen hours, and he was alive, and he was alive, and he was severely beaten, and by all accounts, Matthew Shepherd was just a sweet young man, like the sweetest young man. I want to mention the other man that the act honors, James per Junior. He was a black man who was murdered the same year as Matthew Shepherd. You often don't hear about him. He was offered a ride unknowingly by three white supremacists who then chained them up to a truck and dragged him to his death.
Two of his killers were put to death and one was serving life in prison. So it honors both Matthew and James. And you know, I think, listen, no, murderer is good, I mean none, and they died horribly. But I think this the Hate the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, that is, you know, in their name, basically gives them a legacy, you know, which is protecting hopefully, hopefully protecting people in the future.
Right.
And it also it helps with the prosecution of people who really need to be prosecuted for these crimes because the acts. The Act gives federal authority, which is more power to assist and to take over investigation, and more manpower and all of the above.
Right.
It's interesting too.
One of the the convicted killers in the Matthew Shepherd case, McKinney, he his defense used a really controversial defense and it's called gay panic, and if you don't know what that is, it basically shifts blame to the victim. Right.
So basically what he's.
Saying is like, Matthew Shepherd was coming up to me, I panicked, you know, like it's disgusting using that kind of language. And the judge famously, right, was like, no, you don't get to do that.
You do not get to do that.
In fact, if I remember this correctly, those two men basically almost pretended that they did so that they kind of beframeed word with you, and therefore they lured him and knowing full well that they wanted to do unspeakable things to him, right, And I mean, and I'm talking unspeakable. This was an amazing twenty one year old student.
He was a college student. Oh, he was so sweet and his family's so lovely.
Yeah, and you know, there's there's plays and films and books and all kinds of activism surrounding this case. And there's really good documentaries about Matthew Shepherd, and you know, and additionally too, this kind of sprung up that it's just important to talk about the Trevor Project. Yes, right,
so I'm familiar with the Trevor Project. It's a twenty four our twenty four hours, seven days a week resource for It's a crisis support center for LGBTQ people that they can call at any time, specifically youth, right, because when you're young and you can't talk to your parents, I mean, like especially if you're in the closet, like what are you supposed to do? And maybe you're going to be rejected? Right, your friends are gonna beat you up. Your friends are gonna maybe not want to be your
friend anymore. And now not only are you feeling maybe a little in crisis and suicidal, but now you've just lost your entire friend network and your parents are you know, disappointed in you. Like it's just a really bad place for people to be. So if you are listening and you can hear my voice and you're feeling alone, I just want you to know that you're not alone, and you could call the Trevor Project. I'm sorry, I'm a nightmare. I'm so sorry.
No, it's nice. The opposite of being a nightmare, this is, you know.
Call the Trevor Project at eight six six six I'm sorry, eight six six four eight eight seven three eighty six. And do not be embarrassed to call them. Please call them if you're having any kind of, you know, harmful thoughts. They're there to help you. They're a wonderful organization. Do not be ashamed. You have nothing to be ashamed about.
Be shamed, no, exactly. And we'll put that on the website too, so you know we have that information in one place.
Okay, I'm it's so listen.
It's so prevalent, even according to his recent as a twenty twenty one CDC Survey Survey, forty six percent, almost half of LGBTQ plus adults have reported experiencing some kind of discrimination or harassment due to their identity. So to have an act that is protective of that is a legacy for Matthew Sugar and I think Shepherd.
And I think you know, listen, he his life was cut way too short. But it's just lovely that there is something to remember him by. And like the Matthew shep Foundation, I think is I think is the name of it too. They do a lot of outreach as well, and you can google that and find them. His mom is very involved in it, like his mom and dad are so proud of him. Yes as well, they so
lovely and they're absolutely lovely. But yeah, no, I loved that the Gay Panic Defense got you know, in the toilet by the judging very famously.
It's it's very good.
One more time. The Trevor Project Crisis Hotline can be reached anytime one eight eight eight four eight eight seven three eight six.
I don't know how the time really flew. It's crazy, really flew. We actually have a talk back. Let's go to that real quick.
Hey, So I think I was listening to your podcast about the Diddy parties, and I think that when partying becomes non consensual, I think that that's where freak off crosses the line.
Yeah, yeah, fair like you have to get consent every single encounter, right, You have to give consent every single encounter, and I don't.
Might have gotten a little loss in translation with all the Bill Maher talk, et cetera. Even if you've consented once, I mean, you know, two years later, what do you mean. Bill Maher was like, well, you know it was consensual. And you know in the Diddy freak offs, you know Jane his ex and ex Cassie Ventura, you know it's mixed messages.
You know it was.
But yeah, it's a sentiment.
It's a sentiment that many people with and I, you know, I just think it's worth the clarity. Again, this is my personal opinion only as a woman, But yeah, you need consent, and just because you've consented to it the first time doesn't mean fifteen times later makes it okay. Because we know full well based on that testimony, if you believe it, that they wanted out, and that is something that should have been respected.
My two cents, My two cents only.
But I don't even know should that be called an opinion or just a fact that consent should be a baseline for really any interaction whatsoever. Yeah, you know, regardless of gender, regardless of gender, right, and even you know, any situation. And actually, for anyone here who's young or old, who's listening, and you are in a situation that seemed fun and you quote got yourself into and feel embarrassed, it's okay to get yourself out of it. If things
feel that you don't want them to continue. You're not at fault for allowing something to get to a certain place and then saying no, that is your right, That is your right.
But you know, stuff like this that we're seeing in this ditty trial as he potentially gets off. You know, again, it's a very mixed time. That's a mixed message.
You know, we are hearing.
Cassie Ventura specifically said in text that she did not feel comfortable doing this anymore, and also Jane said it felt very degrading and she wasn't comfortable with it anymore, and she was coerced back to do it or told if she didn't get back in there. You know, there's stuff my released to the press, or there would be some sort of repercussions. And we've seen how violent he can be. That's a tough spot. And you know that's a tough spot.
So I don't know. I can't belabor it anymore.
But our talk back makes a good point, like the freak offs crossed the line, right, especially in light of the text messages like you said stuff like yeah, what do you think? What do you when do you think the So we think the jury might get the case Monday, right, so Thursday and Friday, according to Inner City Press. Right. He was a guest tonight. Wonderful by the way, he was so so good. He said that they probably get it Monday. How long do you think they deliberate? Real quick,
real quick? Oh god, h three days, three days, Stephanie, that was my day.
One day.
I say day, I say two days, You say two days. So we're two three okay, all right, smack in the middle.
I think one day, but it could be a one day and they just all don't think he has proven to be a rocketeur.
I think they're going to be able to prove the sex trafficking. I don't know about the rico. I just I mean, I think it's possibly Rico, but I don't know that the jury is going to think that.
And what's interesting is tomorrow is that sentencing portion of this, So you know, the sentencing night will have charging conference exactly, will have very interesting intel about what the charges entail and sort of what the judge had to say about that tomorrow, so more on that obviously. And also we have a very special friend of Kat and of ours, journalist Connor Powell, is joining us tomorrow, So big round of applause for that true crime tonight. We'll see you tomorrow