Hi, welcome to True Creeps, where the stories are true and the creeps are real. We'll cover stories from grotesque gore to. The possibly plausible paranormal to horrifying history to tense and terrible true crime and. Everything else that goes bump in the night. We're your hosts, Amanda, and I'm Lindsay. And we want you to join us while we creep. We cover mature topics. Listener discretion is advised. Hey, everybody. Today we're going to be talking about the history of werewolves.
I don't know why I'm going to say it like that, but I am werewolves. It sounds like you're going for the creepy vibe, but all I'm thinking is Twilight. We've had shapeshifters or werewolves on our list for a minute, and as we were thinking of what do we want to do in 2025, one of the things that we'll do is we'll look at when things are coming out. Is there a true crime show or a movie or something like that or books coming out? And we'll match things sometimes.
Originally, I was like, oh, there's a new wolfman movie coming out. We could do werewolves. And then I was like, meh, Wolfman, whatever. And then I saw a preview for it. It looks good. And I was like, oh, it actually looks very good. It comes out today. Obviously, we have not seen it, but that's what inspired today's episode. Other than a general interest of werewolves, because. Of course I have a general interest in werewolves. Because she loves Twilight. Oh, yeah.
I mean, I was Team Jacob and Tilly imprinted on a baby. That was a very weird. It got real weird. It got. I mean, it was already weird because how they had the baby. They could have just had a baby and then a little girl and then a tween. And instead they were like, we're gonna do abomination. But the memes that were born because of that, it was all worth it in the end. Yes. Also, that doll has to be haunted by someone. Absolutely. That thing's haunted, right? Yeah. What was I gonna say?
What a time could know. Before we were researching, I did not know that people actually thought that there were werewolves in the world. I thought it was like how we talk about cryptids, right? Where we're like, bigfoot exists and we. Say it and we're like, no, maybe. He does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know, like a folklore or cryptid. A Jersey Devil, if you will. But not like a. There were werewolf trials. Yes. Just like vampires. Like how they would bury people.
Mind blown wild but so people actually believe that their neighbors were turning into wolves and eating people? Mostly children. Werewolf lore is incredibly widespread and there seems to be variance all over the world, which is fascinating. Which means there is so much information about werewolves, lycanthropy, all of this. So we're going to cover a good bit of history today. It's mostly centered in Europe. We plan to discuss shape shifters in various ways in future episodes.
But this is like our first little toe dip into werewolves. There's some other ideas that we have. That one that overlaps with mushrooms, which I love. A two parter. She tries so hard to do more mushroom episodes. Amanda's like, if you want to be my lover, you gotta bring out mushrooms. That was also a conversation right before we started recording. Yeah. We've been talking for like four hours now. Yeah. We're in our first recording session of the year. So we did two in a row.
But okay, werewolves. So variants all over. And when you're thinking about why is that. Why is it that so many cultures have werewolf lore? It's because wolves exist in a lot of places. So they're an animal that you commonly see. So if you see an extra big one, you might think it's a wolf. You're also more likely to be like, oh, it's a variant of this thing that I see.
And I would imagine that livestock and human killing is more likely to be attributed to a thing that exists in a place as opposed to. Not like, we've got wolves around. So let's blame it on a wolf. Yeah. A mystical wolf, if you will. Yeah. But interestingly, even in places where there are no wolves, like Iceland, there is werewolf lore. And part of that is because people move around and when they do, they bring their lore with them. And they're werewolves. And they're werewolves.
They pack them in their bag. Now, you can't track a werewolf. Mm mm. No. They don't meet the size capacity. Yeah. So you have to bring them on your carry on. They don't count as a personal item. Too big. You have to do bark air. Bark air. Is that a thing? Yes. Anyway, werewolves. So there will be some at the end of the episode already. But we're heading to wolf superstitions to start. In some parts of Europe, if you see a wolf before he sees you, then you don't need to be scared of him.
However, in Greece, if a wolf sees you first, then you temporarily cannot speak. It's because you're admiring how beautiful that wolf is. You're awestruck. Yeah. Wolves are so pretty. You're aw struck. Oh, my gosh. In many cultures, just seeing a wolf is considered a bad omen, which I hate because I love wolves. Beautiful. Pliny's 28th book includes that many parts of wolves, if taken from a live wolf, has healing properties. Don't like it.
Which some of these you can't take from a live wolf, by the way. No, never. This is awful. Yeah, don't do it. So don't ever do this to any live animal, but take its flesh, its fat, its liver, jaws, and if opened and put over a door, they will fend off thieves, demons, sorcerers and murderers. But you know what else would? A lock just feels easier. I was gonna say. Or that makes so much more sense. Cause I was gonna say. Or you could paint a symbol on your barn. That fends off a snallygaster.
Right? Yeah. Oh, it's a seven pointed star. I feel like it would fend off everyone else too, because they just be confused. They'd be like, why are there so many points on that? Something's fishy in there. Exactly, exactly. Something's not quite right. But yeah, locks. That wasn't the first thing my mind went to. That's sad. Perfect. No, it's perfect. Okay, okay, okay. We're taking things from live wolves. Don't do this. It's horrible excrement. Which why. Okay, it just can't be there.
You have to take it from it. Yeah, that was my thing. It was like. It can't be like, they're just pooping. Does it have to be unpleasant for the wolf? Right, right. And this next one, like, you also can't take from a live wolf. Like, that's just not possible. Right, right. Ashes and bones. Next few teeth, if worn as a necklace, it will deter wild beasts. Got anything else that would work for wild beasts? Lindsay? I can't think anything. I just, I can't imagine.
Like, if you're an animal, right, and you're animal and around, you're pulling around and you walk up to someone and they're wearing a tooth necklace. As one does. As one does tooth rela. I could imagine being giving, like giving them like an up, down and being like, never mind. And like plotting away being like, I'm just simply not going to fuck with you if you're wearing a tooth necklace.
Real or fake teeth, I think that'll work also that will deter unwanted romantic events, as I think as well, wearing a tooth necklace. Okay, again, real or fake? Doesn't matter. We talked about tooth necklaces at one point, didn't we? I feel like we did. We absolutely did. Because when they would extract teeth, they would string them together so that they could sell them to make dentures for other people because they were incredibly expensive. Right, right, right. Well, okay.
And last one is their tail hair. And that was good for love charms. Again, don't have to kill them to take that or hurt them. No, at least that one's fine. You want their tail hair? Sure. It's just like, look, nothing is more attractive than when someone is wearing tail hair. Like, hot. So let's move on to some werewolf lore and the variance between it. So, again, there's so much werewolf lore that we're really going to focus mostly on Europe.
So throughout different time periods and cultures, werewolf lore varies. Not surprisingly, in Germany, if seven daughters are born in a row, one of them will be a werewolf. In other countries, like Argentina, it's sons, not daughters. And in some cultures, it's that one of them will be a werewolf. And you won't find out until someone turns 13, and that's when they'll become a werewolf.
Okay. When we're talking about werewolf lore, there is a distinction between what's considered an involuntary versus a voluntary wolf is interesting because I'd never really considered it like that. So there's voluntary werewolves, which are people who choose to shape shift, and they're considered to be more evil because they're choosing this life versus involuntary werewolves that transform because of a curse or some other trigger that was done to them.
Okay. These werewolves are considered to be victims. And some lore does offer ways to reverse this or suggest that it will go away on its own eventually. But some methods of reversal. One, a woman falling in love with the werewolf or someone performing a ritual or ceremony to remove the curse. Yes. Amanda, she raised her hand so politely. I was like, that's why people started writing about it. Everyone falling in love with werewolves is because they were trying to cure themselves.
The first place that I went to was two things. Firstly, we talked about shape shifters and it came to worms and how to make someone not worm. Because remember, we weren't using a. It was how to make someone not worm. Yes, yes, we talked about shape shifters and, like, how to reverse it. But, like, okay, so ceremony to remove the curse, or you have to find someone who does love you because your partner doesn't already then? Because if that was true, you wouldn't have been able to be cursed.
But can you think of any very classic stories of a wolf beast, mean person who can only be cured with someone loving them. I mean, most kids movies are kind of like that. Yeah, like Beauty and the Beast, for example. You mean he's a fucking werewolf Wild. Yep. Anyway, with voluntary werewolf lore, there's also some different other variants in there. Some can turn with the assistance of a salve or an ointment. Okay. Others can turn at will with the use of magic, of course.
And either of these types could have gained the ability to transform with ointment or magic by creating a pact with a devil. And then there's this other wrinkle that there's also the possibility that these people aren't actually transforming into wolves. They're creating the illusion of wolves. So the terrible things they're doing, they're doing as a person, but they've created an illusion that they're a wolf doing it via pact with the devil. So specific, is it not? Right? It is, yeah. There's.
There's a lot that goes into this. So now we're going to move to werewolves in early literature. Love it. So the oldest werewolf legend is the Arkanian king Lycan, and no two versions of the story are written exactly the same as we've seen with a lot of old stories. Right. So let's talk about the myth and some of its variations. So, per the story, Lycan had 50 sons, a few daughters, and several wives. That's a lot of babies. Sounds stressful. So his sons were, as one would say, fuck boys.
That was the old timey term. Yeah. And Zeus visited them as a peasant to test them and see how bad they were. Are you also just thinking of feeding the beast still? Mm, mm. The sons killed a boy and mixed his entrails into a meal that they prepared for Zeus. How kind of them. He was super pissed off about it, so he threw the meal across the table at them. Then he also, you know, just for good measure, killed Lichen and his sons with, of course, lightning.
Classic Zeus Gaia protected Lycan's youngest son. So one was still alive. Some variations say that that youngest son was originally the boy that was killed for the meal, though. So again, very different things that happened in other variants. Lycan sacrificed a child on Zeus's altar, and after doing so, he immediately turned into a wolf. Interesting. And then in another version, Lycan and his sons all decided the best thing to do would be to kill the youngest son.
And then in doing so, they transformed into wolves. And then lastly, one other version, Lycan tried to murder Zeus, and when he failed, he was Then turned into a wolf. So it seems like at the end they always turn into wolves, but we don't know who actually dies. Yeah. And. Or why. Yeah. There's also a mention of werewolves in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and that's from 2100 BC, a long time ago.
Basically, the hero dumps his girlfriend when he finds out that she turned her previous lover into a werewolf. That's a good reason. It's either a very good idea because you're distancing yourself from someone who can turn people into werewolves, or it's a very bad idea because maybe the previous dude dumped her and then that's why she turned him into a werewolf. I. I need more details. Maybe being a werewolf was cool though, because then you can communicate with your dog back in 2100 B.C.
Not really in this because you're going to eat babies. I mean, they say dogs eat babies a lot of the time too, but that's just an out of hand thing. I don't think dogs eat babies. I'm just telling you what people believe about werewolves, man. I know, I know. Some people think dogs are bad too. I know. Like, and they're wrong. Werewolves are good. Hence awu air. Yes. Okay, so we're going to get into some time period lore and more details about what people believed.
So in the medieval period, which was the 5th century to the 15th century, people believed that werewolves had skin that had two sides, basically. One was human and the other side was the wolf. And it had like coarse, dark hair. So they believed that in order to transform, you know, they just turn their skin inside out, as one does, of course. Easy. That makes me think of a reversible skin jacket. I'm uncomfortable. You're uncomfortable? Oh, no. Like, ugh. No, thank you.
Yeah. Which also meant that they were called skin turners. Ah. Ooh. Right. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I hate it. And people are like, werewolves are bad. But why are werewolves bad? Because everyone thought they were cannibals and that they routinely raped, murdered, and ate humans. A lot of times stories are about children. So in the 11th century, Picard of Worms, who was known as the corrector. Ooh. Wrote about the penance he required for people who he thought were werewolves.
And it was basically that they should just go for 10 days, just e bread and water. And then like, they be good. Okay. Like, it should fix things. And I'm like, I don't think that's true. I be like, that's a. I mean he is the corrector. Of worms. So later, people began to believe that the wolf skin was beneath the human skin. So if someone was suspected of lycanthropy, they would be skin, because they would search for the hairy wolf skin beneath their own. I hate that. I hate that, too.
Let me just cut you open to see if there's skin, extra skin down there. No, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want you to do that. Then, Starting around the 15th century, people began to wonder if witches were also werewolves. Some thought that they could shape shift but were not werewolves, or that they could enchant regular wolves to do their bidding. Okay. There was also this kind of idea that they could have an enchanted wolf that they would ride. I like that.
So, like, you could be a witch who was a werewolf, but not all werewolves were witches. So, like, if you were a woman who probably lived alone. Right. Because I always thought that that was weird and had a pet dog. Nah, you're a witch with a werewolf. So if you trained your dog back. Then Werewolf Amanda is absolutely a witch with an enchanted werewolf. So in the 1400s, werewolf lore begins to surface and bubble up around the witch trials.
From what we've seen, it seems like they were kind of mixed up. So they would include werewolf concerns with the witch concerns, but they wouldn't necessarily say they're a werewolf. They're like, they're transforming and murdering and eating babies, but they're not saying the word werewolf. So it's kind of hard to tease apart which is which. Okay. Some would also say that witches would take a wolf form for a nefarious purpose, like mutilating livestock or hurting people.
I mean, what else would they be doing with their day? Honestly, if I'm going to go be an asshole, I'm going to transform into a wolf first. Why not? So in Petrus Memoris vloggle Malavikorum in 1472, he stated that there were those that believed they could transform into wolves by using a quote, unguent, obtained from the devil, and that it was the same thing that was given to witches that gave them ability to fly. The Devil's like, sweetie, let's make a deal.
I'm going to give you this little magic ointment. You're going to say, fuck Christian Sky Daddy, and then you get to be a wolf, go eat babies. They're like, heard, great, heard, done. Say less. As the kids say. So then in a 1475 text by Johann Vincenti, he had an entire chapter on lycanthropy and he noted that it was merely a delusion from the devil and that people were actually in a trance. So again, they think that they are acting as a wolf, but they are not.
They are human while they're doing these acts. And we'll get to like another situation where people are making this distinction and there's a particular reason why they're so dead set on that. There's not actually a transformation. Okay. So as we all know about the witch trials, there were werewolf trials and there were werewolf trials in western Switzerland starting in the early 1400s, which then spread across Europe until the 17th centuries or wild.
We're going to end our discussion on trials and stories in the 17th century today. Typically, those accused were immigrants, unhoused people and hermits, which I feel like that's still the trend today. Always. Right. Many of the people who confessed to being a werewolf had delusions or were tricked into confessing, which again, being tricked into confessing things is another thing that still happens today.
People believe that werewolves would hurt children and adults and would have multiple kills. So back in this time, the idea of someone being, let's say a serial killer or a pedophile or, you know, the worst of the worst was unheard of. No one would do that. No human would do that. The only thing that would do that would be a wolf. So of course they, the people that did all these horrible things were werewolves. Yeah. And you would have to be in league with the devil. Of course.
No good God fearing person could do this. It's that you had to be in league with the devil. Wild. Right? We've talked about Christianity's struggle with pagan traditions several times. But that mixed with anything bad happening was coupled together as someone working with the devil and. Or being a witch or in this case, a werewolf. Oh, no, we don't understand why you're doing this. Cultural practice and a child goes missing, therefore this is what happened. Of course.
Yeah. It's almost like somebody who listens to heavy metal and wears all black. And then a kid goes missing. People just blame them because they don't get them. Does that sound familiar? Yeah, just a quick satanic panic starting in the 1400s to now and the werewolf trials. I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted by humans. Yeah. So we're going to discuss some of the trials, but this is not an exhaustive list. So these are just a couple that we'll be talking about today.
And the first one we'll talk about is in 1521 and Pierre Bourgot And Michel Verdun. They were both shepherds and they were charged with being werewolves. Their trial was ran by inquisitors, and Pierre and Michel confessed to making a pact with the devil for food. Some sources differ in this and say that the pact was actually that he would reject God if the devil would protect his sheep. But either way, it was like something to help them live.
It seems they both said that they met a man in black who prepared an ointment for them. The ointment would then turn them into werewolves. They also attended midnight witch gatherings. And while in wolf form, eight children. Sounds like a party. Pierre and Michel were convicted and burned at the stake. There's also a third conspirator in all of this as well, and that was Filbert Monteux, but he never confessed. Filbert was, you know, still burned at the stake, though, just for good measure.
So in general, there were witnesses to people being werewolves. And what these people said that they saw was massive, glowing eyes, unnatural beasts with long, sharp teeth. And of course, they'd be running at a mystifying speed. Future confessions from alleged werewolves would also include meeting with a man in black, receiving an ointment pelt or self tending witch ceremonies. And of course, they would do spree killings. Of course. What else would you do?
So the next trial was that of Giles Garnier in 1573. And Giles was an immigrant living in the forest of a French town named St. Claude. And he was accused of attacking, abducting and mutilating children near Dole. He was tortured. So he confessed, and specifically Giles confessed to killing four children and then said that he fed those children to his family on a Friday. And apparently the Friday part made this a double. No, no. Because you aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays.
And when I read that, I was like, I just feel like killing children is the first. No. And then eating children is the second. Like that' The. No, no. And that maybe eating them on Friday can be the third one. Like that's like the, the least important part of that story. I feel like, like if you're eating children, that has to be worse than eating them on a Friday. Like the problem isn't the day of the week. Like. Right, right. So he was convicted and burned at the stake.
Shockingly, some people believe that his confession was coerced because he lived nearly 40 miles away from where the children had gone missing. Yeah, and that's not an easy trek. 40 miles back in that day would take a long, long time. So it's not something that someone would do on a daily basis or, you know, be able to do. Yeah. So it's almost like they just blamed an immigrant. And Giles was near St. Claude, and in St. Claude there was a judge named Henri Bourget who had very intense beliefs.
And he was like, there are so many fucking werewolves and witches and they're terrorizing St. Claude. He was a lot about it. And because of this, a lot of people were charged in connection. They used the terms werewolf and witch interchangeably. Interesting. In 1598 alone, he pronounced 17 deaths for these crimes. He wrote extensively about demons, and to him that included werewolves.
And at this point, the church's official position was that only God could transform someone and that any transformations that a person made were by the devil. Of course, any of these physical transformations that were from people who were in league with the devil could only be illusions because only God has the power to do that. So it like they had to create something. Like, how are they doing this if it's not God transforming them? Oh, it's that they're not actually transforming.
It's an illusion. They're doing this as humans, but we're just seeing them as wolves. And Bougier had to reconcile that with what he had actually seen. Because per him, he had seen alleged werewolf snarl and walk around the courtroom. Yeah, I don't believe him. But you know. And then in 1588, a nobleman was coming home from hunting and then he encountered someone who claimed to have been attacked by a werewolf. Gasp. During the struggle, the man cut the werewolves paw off. I don't like that.
No. He pulled it up from a bag to show the nobleman, and to both of their surprise, it looked like a hand that would have been a woman's and it had a ring on it. Can you just imagine some guys like, oh, no, I was attacked. Here's the paw. And then you pull the hand of a woman out. Right? It's a woman's hand. Yeah. And everyone involved is like, that seems like a legitimate thing that could have happened. Clearly her, she transformed back into a human. Right.
That's the only reason this guy might have a woman's hand in his bag. Exactly. And now we have another twist. Now the nobleman was in shock because he recognized the ring on the hand. Because it was his wife's gasp. So he went home and wouldn't you know it, she was missing her whole hand. It was just gone. Whole hand gone. When you get home to your significant. Other and they're missing a hand and. You'Re like, oh, he lost your Hand. That's a problem. So you know what he does?
Guess what he does. So of course, the right thing to do would be to call her a werewolf. Right? So then she was arrested and stood trial for being a loup garou. She was ultimately burned at the stake. So this poor woman lost her damn hand and then she was burned at the stake. Well, also, right, like, okay, so one loup garou, French term for werewolf. But also, you're a guy who attacked a noblewoman. In the struggle, you cut off her hand and you leave.
On your way back, you see her husband coming up the drive. How are you going to explain what just happened exactly? Would you blame the woman? But also, like, the husband being like, well, there's no other reason why my wife would be missing a hand. Right. No one could have just attacked her and cut off her hand. The only possible excuse here is that she's a werewolf. Like, but also, what kind of weird attack is that? Just gonna chop off your hand?
How is she still like, yes, upright, awake enough and alive enough to be burned at the stake later? Like back in the day, you lose a hand, I feel like you're gonna bleed out. But okay. I also just don't know if I'd keep the hand or I'd be looking at it, like, more than once. And I googled, can you bleed out if you lost your hand? Yeah. This is opposite information. Some say in a matter of minutes you would just be dead if, like, there's no tourniquet or anything applied.
But then others say if a body part is completely removed or cut, like an amputation, it doesn't bleed much. So who could know? Well, here's what happened. So he cut her hand off. Then she took a trip to Arizona and she just went ahead and put her. Her arm on the pavement and it cauterized it. She was like, no worries. And she's held it above her head. No worries. You could do that. I bet you could. I bet someone has. And she was a werewolf. So she flew one air. Anyway, so.
So Germany, 1589. Peter Stump was gruesomely executed. And he was actually said, this is actually the worst of all of the executions we're going to talk about. He was tied to a cartwheel. Then while alive, his skin was removed with hot pinchers. I hate that. Then the executioners decapitated him and kept the head to the side and burned the rest of his body at the stake. His head was then attached to a carving that had the body of a wolf.
And it was like Hood in the town square so that everybody could see it. And they were like, this is going to keep other people from conspiring with the devil. I just really want to point out our children not being so, like, horribly traumatized in this time. Because people are like, it's not that humans could ever hurt a child. It's that there's monsters. And by the way, here's the head of a man on a statue in the middle of the town square. Act like, this is nothing. You know what?
I can explain that. Okay. In Disney movie terms. Okay. Love it. So think about all of the movies that we watched as children. Okay. We watched lion king. We watched mufasa die. Yeah, they're always killing the parents. Yeah, they're always killing the parents. Bambi. There's lots. So parents are dying. All of them. But now when a kid watches those, they, like, they're so sad and they're traumatized. But back in the day, that was normal for us. We were watching land of the lost, right?
We were, yeah. I mean, you're right. We were watching all the weird stuff. Yeah. With. What was it? The dinosaurs were eating the people there. We watched jurassic park. We watched all this stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, my parents were not censoring the movies I watched. They weren't like, don't watch that. I watched scream. Yeah. Yep, that's what it is. So back in the day, seeing a head on display, no biggie. Kids today are too soft. They can't handle a human head on a wolf body. Statue.
Soft. Too soft. Snowflakes. Exactly, exactly. A lot of them. I hope everyone hears the. The sarcasm in my voice. Jesus christ. Yeah, we're being facetious, obviously. Deep sarcasm. And so another thing to just keep in mind is that we're talking about places that have lots of wolves in, like, in places in europe and in places where there was a legit wolf population there, where, like, sometimes wolves do things like kill livestock. Right. Sometimes wolves are gonna wolf.
Even things like that are being blamed on people. They're not like, it's the wolves doing this. They're like, people are killing the livestock. And it's like, for fuck's sake. Like, get your. Get your shit straight. But also, if there was a person that they didn't care for, that was an easy way to get rid of them. Yes, exactly. So we're gonna move on to 1598 to Jacques Roulet. And this was in touraine, in angers. Hopefully. I'm saying that right.
Pronounced words dot com gave me a lot of different variations There. Two hunters were walking through the woods and found a couple of wolves eating a dead 15 year old boy. That is very sad. The hunters chased the wolves and then came upon Jacques Roulet in the woods. His clothes were tattered, he had blood all over him. And apparently Jacques had human flesh under his fingernails. That image. I just wonder how much flesh was under there for them to determine. It was that.
Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Horrific. Still weird. Okay. He became known as the werewolf of cod. Jacques was tried for being a werewolf. And he said that he would use a salve his parents had given him in order to transform into a werewolf. So now parents are playing the role. Look, they're the middleman between the devil and werewolves. Parents. Look, the holidays just passed. Did your parents give you lotion, creams, ointments, salves? You should check. It might turn you into a werewolf.
What are you doing at night? Yeah, like, yeah, what are you doing at night? You don't know because of that lotion? What are you doing? Are you tired? When you wake up, think about it. Oh my gosh, I am always. You're a werewolf. That's it. So Jacques also said that both his brother and cousin would turn into werewolves. And that the three of them would murder and eat children together. It was a family affair. Narc. Oh, and narc.
Yeah. He was sentenced to death for murder and of course, cannibalism. Jacques appealed his sentencing to the parliament of Paris, who then reduced his sentence. His new sentence was for two years imprisonment. Then to go to a mental institution. Their reasonings was that his confession was taken under duress. Interesting. I mean, I'm surprised that they even gave him a shot. I do think that in most of these circumstances, these people are probably not guilty.
But it is possible that some of the people were doing these things and they just charged them. They were like, you're doing this because you're a werewolf. But like, maybe they actually are murderers. They just don't know how to conceptualize people being that bad. Yes, yes. And we'll get to a story about that in a minute. But in 1598, there was the Werewolf of Shalom. And Nicholas de Ma was known as the Werewolf of Shalom or. Or as the demon tailor. Because he was a tailor. Oh, I like that.
So apparently the trial documents were so disturbing, like with accounts of what he did, that they were destroyed immediately after the trial. That's a bad idea. But this might be a situation where maybe he was that bad. He was believed to lure Children into his tailor shop and then sexually assault them before slitting their throats. Ugh. So I think a bad dude. Yeah. You then butcher their bodies, then consume the remains. That's not good.
When he wasn't able to lure more children into his tailor shop or there was a lull in the children around, he would then go into the woods to find prey. And apparently this is when he would turn into a wolf. Right. He didn't want to ruin his tailor shop. And I want you to remember, he is a tailor. That's what. That's his job. You would think you wouldn't want a bunch of blood and, you know, guts around your shop. You would think that.
You would also think that he wouldn't have barrels of bleach bones. And yet that's what law enforcement found when they searched his tailor shop. Oh, no. It's unknown whether they were able to confirm whether the bones were human or not, but he was convicted of murder and burned at the stake. Witnesses say that he was screaming curses until he died. But, like, I do think that if I was being burned alive, it probably wouldn't be saying kind things.
I'd probably be screaming awful things at people. I don't really take that as damnation. A lot of this is outside of him being a wolf. Like, it's like he did this fucked up stuff and then when he couldn't find more kids, he went into the woods. That also sounds like a case where perhaps there was this awful person and then the media added this other sensational element so that they could call him the werewolf of Shalom. Yeah, because Demon Taylor also, like, you don't.
That doesn't even talk about being a werewolf. Just to note his name. Are you not thinking the Demon barber of Fleet Street? Oh, yeah, I absolutely was. Thank you. Okay, now we're moving to 1598 and we're going to talk about the Gandelian family. So a pair of siblings, one was a man, one was a woman. Along with the man's, two children were tried for being werewolves. The sister was Perne Gandelian. She claimed to be a wolf and witnesses said she did display wolf like behavior.
What does that even mean? Yeah, I don't know what that means, but okay, who could know? I don't know what she was doing. Woofing it up. She attacked a pair of children and was arrested when one of the children escaped and told authorities about her. Authorities arrested her and then tore her to pieces. Now, the brother, Pierre was then accused of being a shapeshifter. And a witch. Pierre and his son both confessed to having an ointment that gave them the ability to transform into a wolf.
When they were imprisoned, they began walking around on all fours and howling. Pierre's daughter was arrested as well. And Pierre and his children were hanged and burned, although they were not accused of having murdered anyone, just that they were shape shifting in some form. So, like, it's Perne who's the like, theoretically, supposedly the fucked up one here. And yet the entire family is murdered because they all might be shape shifters.
So in the 1600s, there continued to be werewolf trials in France, Germany and Switzerland, and they were more prevalent in rural areas as the practice wore out. Again, that would make sense because there would be more legit wolf attacks in these areas. So in 1692, a man named these was 80 years old and he was on trial for being a werewolf in Livonia, Sweden. He laughed as he confessed to becoming a werewolf. And he said he traveled to hell three times a year.
He went on to say that he would also battle witches and devils so that he could make sure there would be a good harvest. So it seems like he's like facetious. He's like, oh, I'm a werewolf and I travel to hell three times a year. Right. Like the appropriate response to being called a werewolf. Yeah, yeah. So he was eventually convicted of practicing folk magic. He was then flogged and banished from his town for life. Oh yeah, fucked up. But at the very least, like, he got to live.
And it's just an interesting way of being. Like, this is ridiculous. I don't know if he lived long, 80 years old, and then be banished from where you live. Like, I don't want to be friends with any of you anyway. I guess from what we could see, there's not really a definitive answer to how many people were convicted of being werewolves or how many people died as a result. The figures we saw ranged from several hundreds to upwards of a hundred thousand. It's a lot wild.
We're moving away from the trials and we're going to talk a little bit more about interesting werewolf things. So some physicians describe lycanthropy as a type of melancholia. And like melancholia was kind of like a catch all for any type of mental illness, but it was often like depression. Right, right. And then they said that their patients would imitate wolves at night and stay indoors during the days.
So if you liked the nighttime and you were more active in the nighttime werewolf, obviously symptoms of this flavor of melancholia included. Being super dry, like all over. So your mouth is super dry and your skin, your eyes, everything. So they lived in Arizona. Yes. Being pale since they didn't go out in the sun. Fuck. Oh no. You're fucked. Uh oh. A languid expression and hollow eyes. And what we think they meant by that is like kind of that dead expression in maybe dark circles.
Something like that, yeah. And then incurable ulcers on their legs. And that's from running into things, you know, during their nighttime adventures. Fantastic. Now, how to treat being a werewolf. Very specific, Very specific. So they would bleed the patients nearly to the point of fainting. They would give them nourishing foods because if you're nourished, you won't be a werewolf. I just feel like it's like that Snickers commercial everyone knows. Hashtag clean eating for werewolves.
Oh my gosh, you aren't you and you're hungry and it's like a werewolf. That's hilarious though. Yeah. Yeah, that would be very smart. Okay, then the next few things in order. Sweet baths, which is like a spiritually cleansing bath. Then of course inducing vomiting a few times after your bath. Look, everyone knows that bloodletting and making someone vomit is going to cure everything. Well, you have to take a bath first. Yeah. Then you give the patient theriac.
And that was made from a combination of over 70 ingredients, like Viper's flesh, opium, honey, wine, cinnamon, black pepper and bread. The ingredients were pulverized and then mixed with honey. So it was very sweet. Delicious. Sounds like something. That's why they were vomiting. No, this was afterwards. I know, but then they vomited more. Yeah. This diagnosis did overlap with the werewolf trials. So there were people who said that the illness, although mental, still came from the devil.
Interesting. Lycanthropy was eventually used to describe when a person had delusions of being an animal, not just a wolf. It was latest described as a form of mania. And I would think that today we would describe if a person was thinking that they were becoming a wolf. Likely if they're have. If they're remembering it, I don't 100. I mean, that's a delusion.
But if they aren't remembering their time as a wolf, which most like, I feel like werewolf movies and stuff, they don't remember what happened today. We would think of that as dissociative identity disorder. Right. Like if you black out and there's another consciousness in charge. For people who have a dissociative identity disorder, their system is going to have different consciousnesses in control at a given point. And one of those could be a wolf.
And if you're thinking of it in that way, in the movie split, James McAvoy becomes the beast. That would be an example of this, which I thought was interesting, where he. Like, he actually is becoming that. It's not like hyperbole. Right. So the belief of people turning into werewolves declined and faded out in many European areas due to population growth and industrialization. Right. They have less wolves. They have less wolf stuff around.
They're generally, like, having fewer beliefs and, like, mystical things, if you will. And people with illusions of becoming a wolf were increasingly considered to be dealing with a mental issue, not a spiritual one. There are some modern histories for what these historic werewolves were. One of these modern theories is porphyria. And these symptoms include sensitivity to light, reddish teeth, and hypertrichosis, which is excessive hair growth. And this is a hereditary disease.
So when people think that it's passed down through a family, it could be that they have this disorder. That's so sad. Like, if you had this disorder and they're like, you're a werewolf. You're like, I literally cannot control this. Then another theory is that people were not seeing this or experiencing this. They were hallucinating.
So you could be hallucinating seeing a wolf, or you could be hallucinating being a wolf, but that these people were purposefully or unwittingly under the influence of hallucinogenic substances like herbs or mushrooms, and that this would also make sense for ointments and salves. Right. So, like, you get some salve from some random dude wearing black, you think you're now a werewolf. You are just tripping balls, right?
Yeah. And it's also possible that the people experiencing it or the people witnessing it had air got poisoning, and that they could be hallucinating because of that. And then just look at other. Just this is my own theory, just the two, that people and animals suck. Right. Humans do shitty things because they're shitty people, not because there's some supernatural force. Did you say humans and animals suck? Yes, because sometimes it sucks that a wolf might kill a kid, a wolf might kill a child.
They're hungry, they need food. They're going to kill the smaller human because it's easier to trap and kill. Yeah. There is so much werewolf lore, I've said it a thousand times. But we might do future episodes on werewolves and. Or shape shifters. I think this is interesting lore, especially when you're thinking of how did this actually impact people's lives. Right? Right. And how did werewolf love stories begin? Yeah, this is how. This is how.
And like we talked at the beginning of the episode that I didn't know that werewolf trials existed. I'm shocked if other people knew this. Apparently Amanda knew. She was like, oh, yeah, that happened. And I'm like, what? Well, I didn't know about the trials, but I knew that people thought people were turning into werewolves. I mean, I assume, I guess that makes sense that they would have a trial because then they'd try to. Yeah. Convict them of something. But, you know.
Yeah. Once I realized that the werewolf trials were tangled up in witchcraft, I was like, okay. I'm less surprised by this, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah. People are good at people. Yeah. So we would love to know, do you have any other theories on what werewolves could have been or why people were thinking people were werewolves? We want to know, as always. Also, I'm sure everyone listened to our last episode, right? We got real science. Y. It's very, very interesting. Science, science.
But we talked about how we're going to be doing more with our Patreon too, this year. That's our goal. So we want to interact and do more Patreon nights and fun stuff. So if you're interested in doing that. Our first Patreon night's coming up in February, so if you want to join our Patreon, you can head to patreon.com truecreeps check it out. Our lowest tier starts at a dollar, so, yeah, just a buck. Just a dollar. You can help support the show. We have a Patreon only Discord group.
There's other tiers that include things like stickers, T shirts, holiday cards, local jam. Just some great stuff. Yeah, but we love our Patreon. We love interacting with them. We have great chats over the break. We also had a few Patreon members that visited Arizona, so I was able to give them recommendations on where to go. I love it. I love it. It's the only acceptable time to be here. Okay. They did it right over the winter time.
And we do appreciate anyone who's listening, but also our Patreons because making true creeps isn't free. So it helps us fund the cost of making the podcast, which is so, so helpful because doing this. Yeah, well, with that, have a great weekend. Thanks for creeping with us. Thanks for listening and as always, a special thank you to our patrons who support us via Patreon. Please see the link in our show notes to learn more about how you. Yes, you can begin to haunt the dump guard vortexes.
Or even become a scorching Sasquatch. Ooh. Also in our show notes, you can find the link to our website, more information on our sources, our social media handles, and our merch store. We'd love for you to keep creeping with us, so if you like this episode, please subscribe, rate, review and share the show with your fellow creeps and or ghosts. I beg of you. You're o struck. It sounds like you're going for the creepy vibe, but all I'm thinking is Twilight.
Amanda said that a few minutes to me ago and I didn't. I was. My brain was elsewhere. Honestly, I was writing. It's probably. It's probably general relativity on a post. It. That'll make. You should know what that means by now. But I looked up and I went like, generally, like, you're just generally always thinking of Twilight. And she looks at me like, what? I was like, oh, werewolves. Werewolves. Got it. We're here, we're here. I understand you have to do Bark Air. Bark Air? Is that a thing?
Yes, I'm sorry. I would say it would be. I'm so sorry. Aw. Air. Do you like that? No. Bark Air is an airline where you travel with your dog and they are treated like first class airline dogs. Hell yeah. I don't think my dog wants to be on an airplane, though. I don't think she wants that. I was thinking that I. Hopefully it'll go down. It's insanely expensive right now, but when we eventually have to bring our dogs to Maryland, it might be so much easier to fly with them.
I'm not putting them in cargo. Also, Spectre would just kill himself. But honestly, in my head, you were just gonna drive here. Oh, no, we will. But like, how nice would it be to not have to stop every few hours because I have the most anxious dog in the world. Oh, yeah. That's fair. Yeah. In my head, you were in an RV driving across the country. Okay. Okay. I don't know. I had a hope in my head, I was like, that's what they're doing. They're taking an rv.
We've never discussed that, like, that being the way you would travel. But in my head, that's the way it is. Sure. I'll. Yeah, RV will just pop out of nowhere. Also, did you notice, she said, when I moved to Maryland, by the way. Yeah, yeah. Also Bark Air, you know, if you ever want to work with us, if. You want to sponsor us, you can do that. I love the idea of this. You're gonna have to Google it. When we're done because, yeah, it's amazing. I'll send you TikToks. They're so cute.
I mean, I'm sure it's the cutest thing ever. Like, no doubt, no doubt. Hallie's always wanted to be on a first class flight somewhere. Honestly, I could absolutely see you're not. There's no way you can expect what I'm about to tell you. Of course, I can absolutely imagine Hal in the stewardess outfit from the Britney Spears music video for Toxic. Yes. I thought of that immediately. When you said that. When I said stewardess, were you like, oh, the Toxic music video one.
Because she's just gonna look good in that blue. That's her color. She would. I've never seen her in that, but I think that that shade of blue might be her color. It would make sense. I would definitely somehow get a dog costume of that for her to fly on. Bark Air. Yeah, look. Bark Air. Amanda is a dog trainer. She's got an incredibly cute dog that could be in a commercial for you. She definitely could dressed as Britney Spears. It's all she's ever wanted. So werewolves.
Hear me out, hear me out. And then look, is it going to cost a lot of money to license Britney Spears music? Yes. What you do is you get a parody of it. Something about yours truly. And it goes, don't you know they're not toxic? And it's got different treats for dogs and they're not toxic because it's the good things. It's like fake Raisinets where it's like. Not grapes because that makes them sick. Love it. So good. But wolf tail hair. Oh my gosh. Do you wolf tail tail hair.
Why couldn't I say Hallie just my son plays the drums and Lindsay knows. Did she do it? Hallie sometimes wags her tail so hard that she hits the drum or she shakes. Mm. She just hit the kick drum. I was like, did she go, didn't. She's getting there. Perfect. That grilled cheese looks amazing. I have whole wheat raisin bread upstairs and I might make a grilled cheese with that. Kids today are too soft. They can't handle a human head on a wolf body statue. That people are gunna people just like.
Gravity is going to gravity. Gravity gonna gravity. Gravity gonna gravity. Go gravel. I can't fucking speak. That's gonna be our new thing. Gravity's gonna gravity.