podcast 388 – Yes, “the Trinity” is a Problem – Part 2

In this second part (part 1 here) I interact with the rest of this discussion between Dr. Sean McDowell and Dr. Fred Sanders.

I do register some significant agreements with them, but on the whole, my criticism from last time stands: their apologetic defense of “the doctrine of the Trinity” is not anywhere near sufficient to rebut or refute the arguments presented by today’s unitarian Christians.

I also explain some historical problems with various things they’re saying. Detailed knowledge of early Christian theologies and Christologies disrupts a number of common trinitarian narratives and assumptions.

Questions addressed include:

• Was the doctrine of the Trinity copied from pagan religions and/or Greek philosophy?
• Can one read pretty much any pre-Nicene written source and find that the author is trinitarian?
• Was the doctrine of the Trinity established at the council at Nicea in 325?
• Was new creedal language produced by the council at Nicea a breakthrough in theological clarity?
• Why is there no clear “Trinity passage” anywhere in the Bible? And is this actually a good thing?

At the end I offer to help.

Links for this episode:

Tuggy, “When and How in the History of Theology Did the Triune God Replace the Father as the Only True God?“

podcast 115 – the aborted council at Serdica in 343

podcast 114 – the recycled creed (342-359)

podcast 113 – the council at Antioch in 341

podcast 31 – Dr. William Hasker on the “Arian” Controversy

podcast 30 – The Council of Nicea

podcast 29 – Arius

Prestige, God in Patristic thought

podcast 270 – Origen’s “one God”

Tuggy, What is the Trinity?

10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity 

Clarke, The Scripture-Doctrine of the Trinity

Biddle, The Apostolical and True Opinion Concerning the Holy Trinity

podcast 348 – Novatian’s On the Trinity – Part 2 – Two Thieves and Three Arguments

Hanson, The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God

Unitarian Christian Alliance

Church of God General Conference

Spirit and Truth

podcast 357 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 2

podcast 356 – Seminary student takes Trinity class, becomes unitarian – Part 1

Dustin Smith’s The Biblical Unitarian Podcast

Sean Finnegan’s Restitutio Podcast

McIntosh, ed. – Craig vs. Hasker vs. Branson vs. Tuggy – One God, Three Persons, Four Views: A Biblical, Theological, and Philosophical Dialogue on the Doctrine of the Trinity

This week’s thinking music is “Discipline” by Mr. Smith.