Welcome to trains.
I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchernas.
Eric, you love music, I love music. Everyone loves music. And it turns out there is a music ETF. I did not know that.
Yeah, there's a history to this. Famously, Quincy Jones filed for a music ETF I don't know, ten twelve years ago. It was going to be called QJ and it really just never launched. I think the issue I might have got held up in the SEC because you can't really advertise using a celebrity like that. But remember we actually interviewed them inside ETFs and asked them about the music industry. I mean, you'd think it was going to launch anyway. It never launched, so there was never really a music ETF.
Then the k Pop ETF launched, but that's more just South Korean stocks and the entertainment industry there, which is a whole section of music for sure, but not the
whole industry. And then boom, we finally got the first music ETF launched recently, and it's been a long time coming, and it's into a world of thematic investing, which is very popular, and that's sort of where we're at with this and it's going to be fun to explore because I met the person behind it at Exchange and I was blown away by some of the stats that I didn't realize. I'm into music, but I didn't know a lot of the background in this, and I thought it was interesting.
The person behind the ETF David Schulhoff. He's the founder and CEO of Music Global Music Industry UTF ticker in USQ this time on Trillions the Music ETF. David, Welcome to Trillions, Thanks Jill, Thanks Eric. So I want to ask where this idea came from for you personally. Eric mentioned a little bit of the backstory. It seems so obvious music's a thing. There are companies these who are big on this, there are record labels, There's been so
much disruption over the past few decades. Why did it take so long to put this into an ETF.
Well, first, there really weren't a lot of companies until the last ten years that could be publicly traded. So in the last ten years you saw the evolution of tons of K pop companies, companies around the world, in Taiwan, in Japan, yet obviously in the US he had Universal Music Group, Live Nations Spotify, went public, Sphere, Madison Square Garden. So about two years ago, I was going to do another publishing company because if you recall, I had a
company called Evergreen. We owned all the rights to MC hammer, jjkle, Bill.
Monroe, death Row.
I was going to do another music publishing company, like two years ago. I'm like, wait, Blackstone, KKR, Apollo, Providence Equity Partners, everyone's like buying all these rights like twenty times.
I have no edge anymore.
Twenty years ago I did because there was no competition, and I'm like, what am I going to do next? I'm like, wait a second. All these LPs are all locked up at all these private equity firms, and they're all investing in music. I should be creating a completely portable and convenient way for both retail investors and sophisticated investors to invest across the music industry. So I designed an index and we launched an ETF that would allow investors to capture the growth of music worldwide.
I have so many questions there because it's been amazing to watch the series of headlines over the past few years as artists basically sell their catalogs, and I even saw very recently. I think Kiss just today that the headline just moved right. Obviously, Bob Dylan was a big name. There's been a ton of artists who have been able to capitalize on this. Your industry veteran here, what did you witness and how did you have to wrestle with that?
Yeah, so when I was cutting deals, I was buying them for like five to seven times.
Okay.
So in the last you know, ten years, Catalogs sold at twenty twenty five or has highest thirty time for Springs Springsteen sold at thirty and they got a lot of private equity money, and Sony did it smart deal. They got an outside nancying to put up the money.
They got a guy named Todd Bowley who owns the Dodgers and you know Dick Clark Presents and the rights to like the Golden Globes anyway, so he put up some capital and look, people love music and they're struck by celebrity in an age of like cheap interest rates. That's basically what caused this, you know, flood of music publishing deals. And it didn't stop there. It was with Neil Young, it was Tom Petty, and you had all these companies out there, tons of royalty trusts like Hypnosis Reservoir.
All the big.
Public companies were all buying it, and all the private equities. So I said, look, there's got to be a way for a retail investory to get exposure to this, right, like somebody who was an e trate account, a Robinhood account, or just a family office that doesn't want to have
to put their money into a fund. And so this is something that really got created to give exposure to investors across music publishing, across recorded music, across live music, across ticketing, really across the entire spectrum, domestic and globally.
That's what this is designed to do.
And when did you identify that the ETF was the right way to do this?
So about two years ago, I'm in Corsica. Okay, I'm on a beach and I'm thinking about what to do next.
By the way, that seems like a whites choice in general.
Well, I was like looking at the blue ocean and I wanted something completely different. I was looking literally, I'm like I need blue ocean in my mind. And I pulled out a piece of paper and I wrote down something that I wanted to invest in. So I wrote down all these companies that I would want to own, and I'm like.
Wait, wit was the first one?
Well, first one was like Universal Music Group, right, the biggest music company, and then probably univers Universal and Warners and Sony and companies like Madison, Square Garden and Sonos and Technology, obviously Live Nation, obviously Spotify. I wanted a category killer in streaming. And I'm like, wait a second. As I'm writing all these companies down, I'm like, there
are five verticals here in this fund. You have streaming, you have content and distribution, you have live music events and ticketing, you have equipment and technology, and you have satellite and radio.
How great is this?
And I'm like, Okay, now I need to figure out what makes these companies eligible into the fund and what are the determinant factors. And I put together an index which scraped the universe of music companies and we created MUSQ.
Love that.
So I want to go into the companies in the fund first though, I just want to ask about the music industry and the revenue. When I wrote my last book, I was trying to compare the mutual fund industry to the compact disc and basically how ETFs played the role of the MP three. They came along and totally disrupted mutual funds which were like.
The compact disc.
And I have a chart showing how music revenue got cut in half after the MP three, like from Napster.
For the next seven years.
Then it started to come up a little bit in the past couple at least the chart I had, I think I might have ended twenty twenty one or something like that. So it's three years old. But when I met you, you said the revenues is actually really good. And I had thought music might just have to live in a new normal of get half the revenue at once got because everybody was paying seventeen bucks for a CD and only half the songs were good. This new
normal meant less money. But you say, that's not the case. They figured out how to make money. So just as go into this sort of macro revenue case for music and how much money is there?
Sure, Eric, So in the mid nineties, the recorded industry peaked at about eighteen billion dollars.
Okay, you are correct.
In two thousand and three, two thousand and four, Napster hit and the MP three, and it was like opening Pandora's box. Everyone was stealing and ripping files and through that got was the birth of Spotify and all the streaming companies, and that began to take off. If you
read the IFPI report, which was published last week. The ifpis International Phonograph Report, music today is at twenty eight billion dollars recorded music, okay, and it's ten growing at ten to twelve percent, right, so it's twelve billion dollars more than the peak of the industry which Eric alluded to in the mid nineties. Streaming today in the United States is eighty four percent of all music consumption, okay,
and it's fifty percent of all music consumption worldwide. Streaming is growing at eleven to thirteen percent according to both of those reports. So what's happening is that we've entered into the digitization of the music industry, and the entire business today is now being streamed. Content and distribution is being streamed. You also have, by the way, vinyl is
a growing business, growing at eight to ten percent. And the last statistic, because I could just go on about statistics, consumers today are paying forty percent less than what they paid in the mid nineties, so they're actually used to paying more. So that just goes back to the overall investment thesis here that music today is undervalued and undermonetized and under hyped. Music is cheap compared to what people are used to paying for CDs, for vinyl, for physical goods.
And so what's happening is all the streaming companies are now starting to raise rates. Spotify raised rates two quarters ago, they crushed earnings two hundred and thirty six million paid subscribers or subscribers grew by fifteen percent, and recently Spotify announced that they were raising rates a second time by
another ten percent. So now you'll pay twelve dollars and that will not stop because that's still fifty percent of what people are paying for Hululu, for Netflix, for Disney, for HBO Go.
So music overall is just cheap. Streaming is growing, and.
Yet it's hard for these companies make money. Spotify has
been a dog for a long time. Audio books, the podcast initiatives all really not music, right, And so I'm curious when you want to talk about what's in the portfolio, but when you think about what you put in the portfolio, Sure you could have a pure play audio company like a Spotify, but you know, an Apple so much more than just music, even though music is part of what they do, right, So how do you think about how you bring those companies into your portfolio?
Well, first, Spotify is six hundred million subscribers worldwide, two hundred and thirty six million paid subscribers, and by raising it a dollar, that drops an incremental two and a half billion dollars to like the boys like three billion, you know, yeah, I mean, And it's really an inexpensive way to generate incremental revenue from existing users. And the podcasts and the audiobooks, by the way, are a carrot to get new users. And so look, they are spending
a lot of money today. They spend a lot of money with Joe Rogan. They now control all the monetization and distribution with Joe Rogan. The audiobooks business has become incredibly successful, top sellers like Britney Spears and Prince Harry and these are all big titles. Podcasts are a huge part of that business, and so look, they're going to continue to spend money on content as they continue to grow. But they are a de facto leader and we have
all the other streaming companies in our fund. Right, So we have obviously Apple, Amazon, Google, We have companies like Click digital companies like Genie corpor and Cacao. These are the two biggest streaming companies in South Korea, so we give exposure to streaming as a category around the world. We've I think twelve or fourteen streaming companies in our fund.
Let's talk about portfolio construction here, because you open this thematic ETF up And I'll be honest, sometimes when I open a ETF's holdings, I like to not know any of the companies because I already own the popular companies in my S and P five hundred fund, so why do I need to own them again? So when I see companies I don't have never heard of, I actually kind of like that now in your fund, once you get past the top five, I've never heard of most
of these. But the top five Amazon, Google, Apple, Spotify, courses in there, and Sony especially the top three, those are the magnificent seven stocks. It looks like you market cap weighted it, and those companies do many things that aren't music. So I guess when you just talk about the construction, the filtration process to get in the fund and then that weighting decision.
Yeah, now, thanks for the question. That's probably the most frequent question I get asked. So, in terms of portfolio construction, all the companies in this fund have to generate more than fifty percent of their revenues from music, right or they have to be a top five player or control more than ten percent global market share in one of those five segments. So Spotify clearly controls it generates more
than fifty percent of the revenue. But after Spotify and after ten Cent, you have Apple, Amazon, and Google that are the third, fourth, and fifth largest streaming companies in the world, So it would not be fair to exclude them from the fund. And so but what we've done is we've capped their weight at seven percent, and so all the companies in this fund are market cap weighted. The three big names you highlighted are capped at seven percent.
So what this winds up being is twenty one percent of those three companies and seventy nine percent of companies you've really never heard of or maybe only heard a few of them, but you have to include them because they're a huge part of the streaming economy today in the United States, Apple and Spotify really control the streaming market. Apple's doing a lot for the music industry. There's tons of curation, they're breaking new artists, they're doing just a
lot for the industry today. Anybody who buys a mobile phone, that's like the quick service that they're offered and teed up. So they're doing a huge service to music publishers, to songwriters, to artists. So they're very much part of the music ecosystem. But for the most part, is Eric pointed out, Look, we have I think forty two or forty four companies in the fun today. These are many of them you
haven't heard of. Sixty percent of them are international companies like Him in Taiwan, Avex in Japan, Believe in France, Ctsaventum, which is like the big live music company in Germany. And then we've got all the K pop companies, and we've got companies in China like Cloud Music, Intense, and so we're really giving investors broad exposure. And a lot
of these companies are hard to trade. You can't just get exposure in music today by buying Universal and by buying Warner Music Group and maybe some of these streaming companies. You really need if you want exposure to music. This is what this fund is designed to do.
What about the private We talked earlier about how big money private equity money has started to invest or buy portfolios. Does your filtering process filter out the private equity sense, I'm sure they do a lot more than music.
Well, first of all, I got to say, like, we're a much better return than private equity. So they're paying twenty times, right, that's a five percent yield on a cash flow. That's before the private equity firm takes their fees, their management fee, their carry, So it's even worse than five percent. If you look at our index, we're performing substantially higher than that for the quarter. I think we're
up eleven percent for the quarter. The index is performing really well when you put that up against the SMP and we have total liquidity.
Right, you can buy.
Our ETF, you can sell it the same day. You get exposure to all the these publishing companies, you get exposure to all the record companies. You don't have to have your money locked up.
So you'd rather not have private equity, right, And.
That's what I meant to say. Yeah, yeah, no, we'd want to not have private equity in the portfolio. The returns just aren't good when you're paying like that kind of multiple for the big marquee acts, and so I just think we're a much better solution for investors who want exposure to music. The returns are more enlightening, they're more favorable. You have liquidity, and you have total diversification.
You're not just on music publishing. It's like we're giving access to the whole ecosystem of music.
Let's just talk about the state of music. I was talking to Joel about this earlier. This is probably me just being like old man on the lawn, but it just seems like a lot of the current stuff is just not that great, Like it doesn't have much depth. There's not much melody.
Was his opinion, by the way.
And I get Spotify taking off because you basically catalyzed all the old stuff too, which is to me, I just feel like the golden age of music is over.
Yeah, I would have to respectfully cut you off and say I think you're wrong.
Go back to your launcher.
And everyone's entitled to look. Music is a universal connector, so everyone's entitled to it. But I don't know you have the CMT Awards on Sunday Night, Zach Bryan, Laney, Wilson, Jelly Roll, all amazing country artists performing. You got Billie Eilish. Today you've got just so many amazing talented writers. You know what I think is interesting, Eric, which I will
kind of at a high level agree with you. The days of vinyl when you put on a record and you kind of embraced the whole album, like you listen to every song. And I think digitization today has made it easy for artists to promote singles and maybe they've found a quick way. That's why, by the way, a lot of the emerging artists are very unhappy right now when Universal pulled their catalog from TikTok, because TikTok is the most powerful marketing tool in the music industry today.
But a lot's going on today right so people can generate music very quickly. AI is obviously a topic that's you know, hotly debated today. Artists can create fakes too from music, so there's a lot of concern around the quality of music, even whether it's authentic. Today you have no federal copyright protection in your voice, which is really interesting. Think about that you have protections for name, image, and likeness, but you can't protect your voice. And what's happening with
AI is it's causing deep fakes. And so in Tennessee a couple of weeks ago they passed the Elvis Act, which makes it a crime to lift somebody's voice.
And profit from it. It's a good name for an app, yeah, I'd say.
So would you say there's an AI player that gets into the music business, are you going to run from it or filter it out? No, So we have included or filter it out, so we're neutral.
We actually have all the companies that are actually delivering the tools to artists to create AI. So if you look at our technology holdings, focus right Dolby Roland Yamaha, a lot of them are creating tools, audio tools, recording studios, giving artist tools to sample new music to create new songs.
But you know, the deeper.
Issue today that needs to get resolved right now, it's only handled at a state level, is really like, how do you protect artists from deep fakes from getting ripped off? You know, the estates of Bob Marley and Frank Sinatra are concerned. They joined in this artist coalition, this advocacy group a lot of interesting stuff today. But just to go back to Eric's point, look, music today is something like one hundred to one hundred and fifty thousand songs
being uploaded today. I do think quality is something that needs to be looked at. There's a lot of like streaming fraud on some of these services. And yeah, it was just a lot more difficult back in the day to create a record, right you have to go into the studio and do it. Now you can rip it and create it from your bedroom, from your desk, And so that's what's going on today.
Well, well, Eric's out in his front line with the lawn chair. We got a record player recently, and so I started buying vinyl and we have an eight year old and I actually, I think he really enjoys interacting with the record player. It's tactile, whereas before, you know, I'm playing music on my phone and I'm dictating the playlist, like he can go flip from side A to side be he's conscious of albums again. Like, I've just really enjoyed having something that's so tactile in our lives again.
So I wanted to bring it back to vinyl and with the vinyl exposure in your portfolio.
Yeah, so, well, we have all the companies that distribute music obviously through vinyl, so all the record companies. Vinyl is just another medium, right, so we tackle it on many levels. We have companies that manufacture vinyl players like the ones I mentioned. They manufact you can buy them on Amazon. I think Yamaha is a vinyl player, and Focus right does. And then obviously at the record company
label they license their content on vinyl. But vinyl's growing at ten percent, okay, according to the IFPI report and the RIAA report. And by the way, it's a really promising statistic because it just shows like opportunity for the super fan. The swifties are devouring phono records, and then
it's a great windfall for just heritage artists. Right for fans like Eric, you or myself, we're probably stuck in days of Steely Dan and Pink Floyd and we want to, you know, listen to these albums and maybe you know, speak for yourself, Okay, I'll speak of myself.
Well, I'll say there's really good I think I should. There's definitely good music being made. It's just not mainstream in my opinion. The mainstream stuff to me, I don't get whereas back in the sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties it fell to me the stuff that was mainstream was also really good.
Can we I just have this episode to old man balchiness.
Yeah, that's fair. I'm sure I'm not alone, but I will say the country thing is interesting. I have found some country more intriguing lately to me than regular rock, and so there's a couple of artists I do like, and I find that maybe that depth I'm looking for has moved over to the country genre. Is that growing in terms of like share?
The genre thing is super interesting because you've got what Eric observes about country, but classical music that has a whole loyal fandom. Hip hop obviously gigantic. So do you think about exposure to genres when you're building a portfolio?
Yeah, So, first of all, you mentioned country. Country is actually the most profitable component of music today. So for a couple of reasons, more people by vinyl on and albums on country number one. As performance country songs are on the radio longer than hip hop, longer than pop, so they actually generate performance revenue longer. And I think today there's just amazing music there. They're writing full albums.
Morgan Wall and Chris Stapleton, Zach Bryan, Laney Wilson, these are all amazing artists and they're all you know, they're all writing full albums and people listening to them, and they have amazing tour. Springsteen just appeared with Zach Bryan at Barkley's the other day. They've got huge audiences and unlike the other art forms setting aside, like Taylor Swift, who's just a phenomenon, and Beyonce's a phenomenon.
There's a guy on my team who works out of London. He wants to create an ETF SWFT. I'm so obsessed with Taylor Swift. He thinks you could make a whole ETF just around stuff. She likes stuff. She's like her supply chain. And this brings me to the sort of Taylor Swift is saving the economy articles that we saw about a year ago, let's go over the actual numbers.
What I read was entertainment is four percent of GDP, and I guess music is one percent of that four percent, and then Taylor Swift would be a percentage of the one percent. I guess can you sort of put Taylor Swift's contribution to a music and then be the overall GDP into perspective.
Yeah, well, first of all, the according to the Luminate report, you had four trillion streams last year. Okay, Taylor Swift was five percent of all those streams. So give you context on Spotify what she's generating in terms of like audience and revenue. On top of what you just said, there's the Taylor Swift effect, which is much higher than a few percent to economy right to hotels, to airfare
to ticket So look, she created a cultural phenomenon. I don't dislike the idea, by the way of creating an ETF around Taylor Swift because you could include a lot of different What she's done is incredible. She's by the way, she started off as a country artist. I used to publish her because Liz Rose was one of my writers, and Liz Rose tear drops on my guitar with Taylor, and so we used to actually publish Taylor's first album.
So I met her when she was fourteen, when I had my company, Evergreen and Integrated Copyright Group in Nashville. But what she's done is incredible. But she's not alone. There's a lot of talented people out there. I love what Beyonce's doing in Country by the Way, and she's got the roots. She's from Houston. I love what she's doing. The covers of Joe Lene are incredible.
I think it's amazing.
Yeah, so really interesting, It's like but yeah, to answer your question, Joel, country's big, and we own every facet of it in this fund, through concerts, through ticketing, through merch, through recorded music, through publishing.
Okay, so I want to ask about the ticker. What other options did you consider other than MUSQ, which music I love. But were you faced with any difficulties acquiring the.
Ticker face with no difficulties. I was honestly shocked it wasn't taken. When I saw it was available, I quickly jumped on it. I just spoke directly.
You know.
We're nominated for Ticker.
Of the yearly April seventeenth at the ETF dot Com Awarts. Thank you will see what happens. But I do think people recognize it speaks to who we are, It speaks to the soul of this fund, and I was pretty psyched that I'm getting a lot of traffic from Elon Musk on my Twitter feeds in the.
US bodes well for a certain savvy online.
You know, that wasn't the reason I did it, But I'm not upset with any accidental traffic on folks that are interested in what we're doing. And I do get a lot of people that text me, email me, you know, are you associated with Grimes and Elon? But that's not the reason. It just speaks to the heart of who we are, and it's a ticker that people know and and look, my goal is to really make this as
exciting and big as people love me. This is really a fund for not only for investors, but it's also for melomaniacs.
Okay when you're I sense it.
Everybody in this room, you know, from Magnus to Eric and Joel is a melomaniac. And you know, I wanted to really create a connection, an emotional connection between music and an opportunity to invest in it and make it accessible. And that's what this is designed to do.
And how do you feel about performance? So far?
Really happy with performance? I mean, look, we have some very big names in our fund that are performing extremely well. Spotify is up one hundred and thirty percent for twelve months, seventy percent for the year. Sphere is up fifty percent, Live Nation is up forty percent. And then all these companies are all passing down. All the record companies are all delivering. Look at the quarters that they just delivered. Warner Music Group was up eighteen percent, a Universal Music
Group with fifteen percent. Sony was up. And there's a reason for this because seventy percent of all of the revenues from all the streaming companies get paid to the life labels, right, that's the contracts between the publishers and the label, seventy percent of the So as the streaming numbers go up for all the reasons we identified before, seventy percent of those revenues get passed down, and that's just more money to artists and writers. And so we're
really happy with performance of this fund. We're capturing all the growth and innovation around the music industry, and I think things are only getting better between streaming and content and live music. Look at the numbers that Live Nation just reported. Revenues are up twenty five percent. Between concerts and ticketing and sponsorship. The average ticket for a Taylor Swift concert was thirteen hundred dollars. The average ticket price for a Morgan Wallin concert is seven hundred dollars.
Yeah, Jesus is.
Right, you have kids one hundred dollars.
And then if you have kids, okay, you got four or three d the right.
Yeah, by a way. So Taylor became a billionaire.
We saw that a couple of days ago, and that's really kind of what's connecting it, you know. And Sphere is obviously another great stock and a top holding in our fund. And look at what's happening there, I mean, or expensive tickets, but look what you're seeing. Look at how you're experiencing that.
Yeah, in Vegas, that is a sphere.
It's a sphere.
And now you're gonna go see Ded and Co there with John Mayer. It's gonna be awesome. You two is incredible. And it's a bad experience is you can't recreate the live experience. That's why people are always going to pay up to go out. That's why live music is always going to be big, and that's why people are going to pay for music.
And let me ask you a question about that. The way an artist gets paid now, has it shifted from like was predominantly from the CDs, and now it's more because of touring or is it the same as it ever was now?
Yeah, So look back in the day, the hard format was the primary out with the primary sale, so you had was a royalty tied to a cassette or a CD sale, right, and then everything kind of got digitized, and now it's through streaming and digital downloads. Touring is something completely separate. There artists who deals with concert promoters, they get advances and then the concert promoters booked them in venues, and so those are two different revenue sources.
So an artist is signed to a record company, right, and there are many ways that the artists can collect revenues today. You have performance revenue, which is when the songs get played on radio. You have royalty revenue when the songs get streamed or get sold on CDs or on cassettes. You have synchronization revenue, which is when the songs get used in movies and TV shows and commercials.
Right.
And then you have mechanical sales, which are tied to the publishing So if you're the writer, right, all the anytime a song is streamed, they pay royalties out to the publisher, and so artists if they're not the writer, they're just getting record royalties. If the artist is the writer, right, and also the artists they're getting both of those royalties.
So multiple revenue streams in the music industry. And today just with the digitization to music, you're just getting exposure to music consumption and there's so many touch points today, so you're getting really that's why you got tons of blanket agreements now too. You have guilds like the National
Music Publisher Association of America. You have the RI DOUBLEA that protect rights for artists, for songwriters, and they're entering into these blanket agreements with Spotify's and streaming companies to make sure that they're scraping the universe of royalties because anytime, and that's what's going to be so exciting with like AI and blockchain. AI and blockchain is going to put artists and songwriters on a direct payment rail whenever song
is used. It's going to simplify the process because today you have these big performing rights organizations like ASCAT, BMI and c SEC that are entering into blanket agreements with the venues with the restaurants, right and so, but they collect the money, they hang on to the money for nine months, then they pay out the artists. That's really antiquated.
It really shouldn't be that way today. With blockchain, there should be a direct payment rail one pay for one play, And that's kind of where things are going too, so eventually they'll be there. Already is a lot more transparency for artists and writers and to see how many streams they have, how much income they've generated. That's kind of where the whole industry is headed.
Is there anything that you you don't have exposure to that you wish you could have exposure to?
Yeah, obviously Navidia.
I wish we could include Navidia as an AI stock. Really, i'd have to rewrite the rules of the fund.
I mean more, if there's something that is private and not accessible for you to be able to put it in EF, what would that be.
Look, there's some really cool music companies out there, private companies.
I don't know, song vest or you know.
Look, I like this company. I like this company that just went public, Jukebox. They're just specifically selling off fractional shares of songs, right, I really like what they're doing. So they're they're buying out portfolios from private equity firms and the securitizing them so you can own pieces of songs. I love that bowiesque. It's kind of Bowiees. They've done again. They're democratizing music. It just shows you how big music is.
There are tons of ways to sell music to customers today, and so in a perfect world, i'd like to be everywhere. I want to give investors exposure to all the exciting new technologies that are out there. But we had to design something very specific, and we're really focused on public music companies.
All right, final question, favorite ETF ticker other than your own?
I really love I love Chat h A T.
I think that's awesome, and I like good Luck Yeah yeah yeah, I like Block and Chat. I think those speak directly to those ETFs.
Okay, David Joelhoff, thanks so much for joining us on Trillions. Thank you guys, thanks for listening to Trillions. Until next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you'd like to listen. We'd love to hear from you, or on Twitter. I'm at Joel Webbers Show. He's at Eric Paulchness. This episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus Hendrickson, Bye
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