Welko our Jollins.
I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Balchutas.
We got a big deal in the podcast today. I'm excited about this one.
Yeah.
We needed to counterweight. The last two were a little off the cuff and we needed something heavier and deeper.
We needed a heavyweight. We did. So we're going to be joined by George Gatch, who's the CEO of JP Morgan Asset Management. I'm excited about this one in part because JP Morgan has become such a big force in the ETF industry relatively quickly.
Yeah, and active in general. People don't realize that when you look at all the active mutual funds and ETFs and you add it all together. JP Morgan is now fourth after Capital Group, Fidelity and Vanguard, and they've come up from like eighth in only a couple of years, passing Pimpco DFA T. I mean these are heavyweight firms. People may not know that. I think they think of JP Morgan, they think of bank more so than asset management.
But that is some powerhouse surge there, and they have taken in about four times more in inflows than any other active shop. So they are on fire when it comes to active and it really was embracing the ETF. The ETF is the majority of those flows, although their mutual funds are actually treading water, which is which helps because they don't have to offset any outflows in the mutual funds. Really, and the ETFs have been a big hit.
They've got a couple. They've got the biggest stock active ETF and the biggest bond active ETF in the world.
Who knew muscle, that's what we call that. So joining us in this episode George Gatch of JP Morgan's asset management, this time on Trillions, the new heavyweight. George, Welcome to Trillions.
Oh, thank you, gentlemen. Great to be here.
Okay, So when people think of JP Morgan, I think most of the time they think of Jamie Diamond and the bank. Can you just describe how, how and where the asset management part came from and how you've become such a dominant force so quickly.
Yeah. Well, I think Jamie would refer to us as the hidden gem within JP Morgan. We've been managing money for a long long time, well over a century in fact, if you replay the tapes a little bit in the seventies during the trust banks JP Morgan Morgan guarantee trust with the largest asset manager in the world. So we're on a mission to regain that position as being the best asset manager. We have eighty five hundred employees that
do only one thing, manage other people's money. One of the largest commitments to research, fundamental research, and we differentiate our size by being exclusively focused on active management. And I think as we talk about our success in ets and more broadly and active, I think that's a key, key different trading point for us.
And when did that ETF light bulb first go off for you?
Well, you would have to have been blind to have not seen that ETFs were something that there was significant amount of demand in the industry. And so about ten years ago we said, we think this is a really important innovation and benefit for investors. It was at that time pretty much exclusive to passive but we thought we needed to develop expertise and capabilities, and so we launched
our first ETFs, which were factor tilts essentially. So we're trying to bring some degree of differentiation to the market and we've been on a journey. One of the the important differentiats I said before, is our focus on active is. We had a debate within JP Morgan Asset Management about
should we try to be a scale passet manager. And when I became CEO six years ago, I really made the decision that we're going to focus on our straints and put all of our resources in into active and that was represented in the investments we made in our ETF lineup. We do have some passive capabilities, but those are really building blocks for our active multi asset strategies, target date funds, and other things that we offer.
So when you showed up six years ago and already Vanguard black Rock had the passive game like down, was it more of like there's an opportunity and active that those two have conceded and that's how we're going to show up. Or was it like we'll get to the passive stuff later, but we need something like a hallmark product to really distinguish ourselves.
I mean, it's amazing we saw, which is this massive title wave of investors moving from active to passive and you can see that and flows in mutual funds, and that's also represented in the intellectual capital that many asset managers they focus their resourcing, their research on tracking markets, and they did a good job of it, and it
was highly a feeling to investors. I saw that as an opportunity where we could help exploit the ability to outperform markets because there was simply less focus on it from most of our competitors. I also think there's this kind of cultural underpinning that's very powerful. To have eighty five hundred people that are all believe in the ability if you have sustainable sources of information, of an information
advantage of the ability to outperform outperform markets. And that's important for our sales teams, it's important for our product development, operations, fund accounting, etc. Everyone believes that we have an advantage and we can exploit that to help people outperform markets.
So I've been watching you for years. I saw you guys come in and I saw the passive first sort of the beta knockoffs. They did okay, there was some BYO money, but then JEPPI to me, really changed everything in gp JPST. That's the bond in the stock when they're the biggest. What I've found interesting and what I think this is my theory on why it has worked so well because you came in and really made an impact on something that people were kind of writing off
a little bit. Most of these big asset managers, they were like, hey, let's come out with like free index funds like Fidelity, just to offset the active outflows. So we look like we're you know, in business still versus just bleeding out slowly. But you guys are like, no, we can make active work. One thing you did that I think takes guts though, is the expense ratios. To me, they are they feel fair. You know. A lot of the problem with the active management is it's like ninety
basis points. It's largely S and P five hundred stocks. They came in jep's thirty five BIPs. That's the same as the R six class of your mutual fund, which is the cheapest class. So in essence, they're giving the ETF investors sort of the cheaper share class of the mutual fund. Not only that, you get fundamental stock picking. There's an options overlay, so there's a lot of legwork involved. And it's JP Morgan. So I'm thinking of an advisor always.
I'm always in their brain going does this seem like a good deal. It's like they can go to their client now and say, look, I'm going to get you JP Morgan. That'll that's really cool. That's lucky you have that. A lot of firms don't. I'm going to get you in options overlay. And it's just like it's going to take the ball down a little bit, YadA YadA. It feels fair at thirty five BIPs, and I think that's part of the magic.
Would you agree, Yeah, no, absolutely, you know, and I think we all know, and we've looked at other industries and other firms. If you don't evolve and adjust your business model to the changing needs of investors financial advisors, your business will with her. And so you know, we made decisions to build products we think that, from both a pricing and an investment standpoint, have a highly differentiated offer relative to others. Now, we didn't apply the strategy
of a covered call options only in an ETF. We actually did it first in a mutual fund. So what we're doing is bringing our best ideas that we have in mutual funds, separately managed accounts, what we've run for institutions, and then putting them in an ETF and then going through a process of how do we price that relative
to the value that we're adding to investors. And the great thing about ETFs is there's very few little friction relative to revenue share or transfer agency costs or other things, so it allows us to do it at a price point where then financial advisors can make the decisions to
add fees for the services they're providing. And so what this has really done is seeing the disconnecting between manufacturing and the costs associated with manufacturing versus services related to advice and financial planning and other components of high value
added things that advisors do themselves. And I think that's one of the reasons that ETFs has grown so rapidly, both in passive and active, which is you see this movement towards fee based programs and away from transactional revenue sharing and other things that's good for investors, and so we're playing to that theme and the way that we price in service products.
I will say, you make that sound easy, but over the years, I think the fun companies that are just fun companies, it is tougher for them. I see them sometimes try to make the ETF industry come to their on their terms and it doesn't work. You kind of have to meet the ETF industry on its terms, and I thought JPM was.
Like Judo a little bit, like we're going to use the energy and like redirect it a little bit rather than take it head on. If you like that, I've brought Olympic sports in here.
I like metaphors. I don't know about that one, but it's it's hopefully everybody listening understands. That flew over my head a little bit. But the idea of having a bank where asset management is a portion of the revenue, and obviously Jamie Diamond has all these other groups making money. There's a lot of things to work on and so it's not like the whole thing depends on this one mutual fund revenue stream. So you can make that ETF leap a little easier because it does involve us a
little bit of self cannibalization. Although if you get enough assets, you win in the end. But it's been tough for the traditional nineties er mutual fund company to do that because this is all they have. And I don't know, do you feel like that that you work in this
gigantic diversified bank type company. Does it give you a little more freedom or is that more just the Jamie Diamond management thing to just let you do what you need to do, because I don't feel like others are given the keys so much as you guys were in terms of pricing it and being able to sort of maybe go a little cheaper than you probably would like to.
The way I think about it is the asset management business is to serve investor, and we are measured to compete with the best asset managers in the world. That's the way the board and that's the way Jamie judges us with us, and we have the ability because it is a fiduciary business is a very important point, and we're hemetically sealed because of the conflicts that exists between
the bank and the asset management. We can't trade in our ETFs with JP Morgan Chasing Company, but we have the ability to reach out and pull in the expertise and skills that are maybe difficult for other monoline asset management firms to get. Cyber technology, artificial intelligence that bank has since seventeen billion dollars a year on technology. We have the ability to pull in generative AI expertise to help apply that to managing managing money. So I would
describe this as the best of both worlds. The other thing I would point out, which I think is important for us, is they're kind of two I think two ways that asset managers approcess. One is around marketing what's best to sell, and then you have others who are deep fiduciary managers where they lead from the investment standpoint, how do you generate returns for clients and a risk
adjusted away. Some lean too much in one way, therefore haven't been able to adapt their product offering rap enough. Others lead the other way, and they end up producing products that don't aren't in the interest long term investing
interest of investors. What I think we have been able to do is balance that decision making between a very strong investment led fraduciary culture and a very strong focus on investor needs and demands and adapting our product line and capability more rapidly, maybe than some of our competitors have.
We talk about a lot how the ETF is a terror dome, the ETF industry is a terrordome, and that you know it's taxing, especially for all the juggernauts that have to compete with one another. What's it feel like to walk into the Terrordome every day and have to compete.
Oh, it's great. I mean this is this is one of the most exciting areas of the industry. I mean the level of innovation. You pointed out the competition, and it is invigorating for our teams and my people. And I think that's one of the things because ETFs are maybe they've been around for a long time, but they're quite fresh as it relates to, you know, the active asset management space, and I think it's it's it's bad, you know, a degree of optimism and focus on the future,
and the competition is awesome. You think about, like what the competition of the asset management space is meant for the quality of what investors get today, and the innovations that we've seen in mutual funds and separately managed tax optimization and all of that I think is calling in a seismic shift that's happening where ETFs will likely be the most important product and vehicle for individual investors and maybe institutions for the next decade. So I think it's incredibly exciting.
Yeah, do it you like to compete against you?
I feel sorry for them.
Actually, that's a good segue. I have a good example of what I think of one of the We always look for these interesting matchups inside different categories. And you know I titled this Vanguard versus JP Morgan grabbed the popcorn.
So JP Morgan popcorn for that.
Yeah, I mean this is really interesting to me. JP Morgan launched a high yield active bond e tf JPHY. It's seeded with two billion, which is unheard of.
Pretty good start.
That's a good start. You're already the biggest one. Nice just like that's like born on home plate right there. Now. A couple of weeks later, Vanguard filed for an active junk bond ETF and everybody had been writing them off because people had thought they would file for a drunk bond ETF at some point. Everybody wanted them to because they have a mutual fund, and they never did. And I think you got them to launch, in my opinion, because they see the numbers. Vanguard is nineteenth in active
ETF and they're not nineteenth in anything. That probably pisses them off. And they see you come in, you're cleaning up, you're running circles around them, and you're bab basically biting at their heels right now in third place of overall active, so that I really I can't ever say I've seen Vanguard look a little nervous, but this looks like that.
Because Vanguard is a great firm and obviously huge innovator in ETF space. The way I think about it, three trillion dollars in fixed income ETFs globally, five percent of that is indexed passive. This is a space where the average manager outperforms the market. So I think investors have loved the ETF package and therefore have gone down that path of allocating to fixed income, and now that their world class capabilities active capabilities in ETFs, I think we're
going to see a massive shift. And what we did was we went to one of our largest clients, one of the most sophisticated asset owners in the world, and asked them whether they wanted to participate in us launching a high yield ETF. And that shows the strengths of our traditional institutional business and relationship. On day one, the ETF had four hundred and fifty positions source from our
credit and portfolio management capabilities. So as an investor, if you can into our fund on its first day, you would have be fully diversified UH in the in the sectors and securities that we think are our most attractive. It's a great thing. I never thought I would see the day where we were able to launch a e t F and have it be the largest et F in the category on day on day one. It's a great position to be in.
I want to talk about JEPY because we mentioned earlier JP Morgan Equity Premium income ETF that has just crushed it. And can you dissect why JEFPY has been such a success. And also were there any other names that you considered for the ticker?
We're always wondering about the best, the best, the best tickers. I mean, I think this is you know, as I said before, this is not a strategy that was first in the ets. It came to our mutual fund lineup first, UH and and it all fors the investors the opportunity to get their toe in the water, get allocation to the upside potential of equities, but at the same time generate very attractive income and have some less volatility and delivers. So I think it's an idea that has applications to
every asset class. I think it's a core position over the over the long term, as we see volatility spike, you're likely to see greater demand for these types of products. In markets like today, where you have UH momentum in stock prices, it's likely to be something that's not the first the first choice, but over time in a market cycle. I think these strategies and we've obviously replicated it not
just an S and P five hundred which JEFP. We've done it in Nasdaq stocks with j E p Q. We've also applied a similar strategy to our hedged equity. We have one for US strategy and we also have one for an international strategy called OLAH. So I think these types of products that give you equity exposures either downside protection or high levels of income will continue to be quite attractive. We launched them around the world Canada
our product range and USETS in Europe. We were the first to list a active ETF strategy in Hong Kong two weeks ago, which is actually a replica of jeffs. So this is an error where we're seeing demand globally around the world to these types of strategies.
If you look at Europe, I was just in Europe a couple of weeks ago, and Henry showed me the active ETFs there. JP Morgan is like in a league of their own, so like here there obviously right up there there's a couple good active ETF managers, although some of them take money from the mutual funds, so they
offset when you look at the boat. That's why when I looked at your numbers in terms of mutual fund plus ETF, it was very impressive because your mutual funds were able to at least eke out a little bit of flows, which is not the norm. JEPQ, which is the one you mentioned. It's jetp's little brother, except it's a little more feisty because the cues have more volatility. So it seems like to me that jepq's double any
other of your ETFs and flows this year. So it's kind of like it hasn't surpassed JETPI in assets, but it's it's getting, you know, it's taking in more money. I think the idea here is if you write call options on the cues, what you do is you give up extreme upside, but what you get in return is
some income. So it yields eleven percent that income can actually buffer the downside a little, so in essence, it's like diet cues in a way, and that to me is a strong selling point that is somewhat performance proof because if you have a year where you underperform the cues, the value proposition is still there because a lot of older investors are like, I'm happy to give up a
little upside. I really I've made a lot of money and that deal they strike with an issuer like jep Q or JETPY, it's a brilliant concept because it doesn't totally rely on performance year to year like say other ETFs.
Do I have that right? Yeah? Absolutely. I think this is why these strategies are so durable because I think the demand for these types of products of high income, exposure to equity markets, and less volatility. I think that's a theme that we're going to see to continue continue to play out. Now. It is the number one selling product that we have year to date, and I think there is an important point relative to kind of our
strategy around this. If you look at we got into the business and saw strong flows through these derivative income strategies JETP and jep Q, and through our short duration fixed income JPST, which is the largest fixed income ETF in the business. But over the last two years, more than half of our total flows have been in other products.
And I think that's what I see. I'm so encouraged about the strength of active fixed income, which I mentioned mentioned before, our JPI, which is an income fixed income ETF, our Core Plus strategy, which is our best selling fixed income capabilities. I think that's what you're going to see happen in the in the industry is we're going to see more and more flows expanding into other into other areas as more investment capabilities become available.
And you also you oversee everything, right, So you've got mutual funds ETF And I read a little bit about your push into alternatives. What does that mean? What for you? What is the push and alternatives? Black Rock says the same thing. I think some people like, what does that mean? And what kind of products door we expect?
And does it mean crypto?
Don't worry, I'll get there.
So sixty forty diversified investing all alternatives to a diversified portfolio and new increase return and reduce risks not a new novel idea. It's been around for a long long time. We've provided those tools for our big institutional clients for a long long time, and we've got leading capabilities in real estate, infrastructure, hedge, fund of funds, private equity, et cetera.
And I think there's two parts of this. One is we believe in building stuff internally, so we have a number of investment strategies that we've seated growth, private equity, and number of things that you know, over time will become important options for our clients. So that's part of it expanding the universe of offerings that we have for clients.
So you said private equity, and I think did you launch an interval fund that has private equity credit or both?
Yes, we have. We have two strategies today that are private wealth alternatives. One is called JPMF which is a private equity strategy private equity secondaries, co invest and fund of fund And we also have a jpm RET which is a ten tender offer strategy, and both of those are designed for individual investors, have lower minimums, W two, tax reporting, etc.
But the interval means you can only get your money out quarterly, something like that or is.
This something It depends on the strategy and the fund. But yes, there tend to be limits on redemption. These are these are ill liquid strategies, so it's very important relative to you know, education and disclosures to clients.
It's interesting you picked the Interval fund. You're not alone. I think Blackstone picked one. Vanguard is looking into it. But there is a small shop or two in State Street that try is trying to put privates into ETFs. I do think ETFs are the pervert vehicle that to me, they are like digital music, and Interval fund feels like putting it into a CD. You probably could get it done and listen to the music that way, but it's not as convenient. On the flip side, privates are ill liquid,
so you know people hesitate to put them. But what do you think of this move to try to get privates into ETFs and even further to democratize them fully. There's some talk of like, well, this is the private companies just trying to unload this stuff on retail because they had a nice run and the naves that they price all the private sets sometimes aren't quite reflective of reality versus when you put something in an ETF, you got to price it every day. I don't know. What
do you think of all that. It seems like something that's on the cusp of like really breaking through to the retail world.
Yeah, Eric, I think it's I think that's a great question. Interval products, and there's a range of capabilities that now can be delivered in structures designed for ill liquid securities, and that's where our focuses is building out these capabilities of private equity, private credit, infrastructure, et cetera, to make them available to individual investors to complement sixty sixty forty ets,
like public mutual funds are priced daily. ILL liquid securities have been used in public mutual funds and in ets, but below the fifteen percent liquidity ILL liquid bucket. And I think the principle should be if a product is priced on a daily basis, that there should be limits to the amount of securities and the strategy around valuations. So I think we should be very cautious about how we integrate private securities into ETF structures. There are other
vehicles where it makes more sense. The disclosure is better. Now. I'm not saying there aren't opportunities to include I liquid securities in ets. We have to be very mindful of the issues that you raise.
How much demand is there from on the consumer side for products that you know, I have this that liquid stuff. But are you know, effectively ANTF. Do you see the demand there?
No, not necessarily. I mean I say demands for the ETF structures which are suitable for you know, daily valued securities. So I'm not saying we see a you know, significant amount. Now we do see demand for private alternatives to individual investors significant significant demand.
Question though, is the demand because these private equity vehicles seem to have less volatility and can be a true alternative. But then you know, there is some criticism that, well, the reason they're alternatives or have lower volatility is because they don't have to like live in reality of a true market. For example, SpaceX probably has a similar profile to Tesla, but you wouldn't know it from the navs.
And I think this is one of the critiques of private equity is that largely they're to move like public equities if you put them in the you know, reality. And I believe there was even a story on Bloomberg about like JP Morgan trying to trade some of these and these private shops. It just seems like they're a little hesitant to actually let this stuff into the reality of a real market, because it's like it would like, remove the veil, what's the emperor's new clothes, what's the
The emperor has no clothes. The emperor has no low volatility. Sorry, that's almost as bad as your Judo metaphor. But you know what I'm saying. Am I wrong there? Or do you think there's some of that fear of like? And so does retail? Do they understand that or is it just a matter of like less companies go public. Hey, I want a piece of the action of these companies, but you know that aren't going public.
I mean these these securities trade on appointment, and I think you have to be not not not not every minute of the day, and so I think you know that needs to be taken into consideration. But there's some realities here, right which is a decade ago, there were eight thousand public companies. Today they're four thousand. There are multiples of that in terms of private companies that offer return opportunities to clients, and the same is true in
the fixed income markets. There is a large, growing market of private securities that offer return opportunities for individual investors. The question is packaging that in the right way. If investors have long time arisons, they shouldn't be concerned about what the pricing is on any individual moment. And I think that's the opportunity with some of these vehicles that offer exposure to these markets but are also disclosed that you're not going to get your money every day. Ets
you're going to get your money every day. Valuation is incredibly important, and that needs to be the premise around the types of securities that you include in these portfolios. And I do agree. I think the people are salivating over the opportunity in the ETF market and the individual market, and they want access to it. But we have to be thoughtful about it. And I think that that's the perspective that we bring.
Speaking a thoughtful when I've been running these numbers on ibit and ETHA that's the black Rock, Bitcoin and Ether ETF. When I run like fastest to twenty billion, and I look at all the ETFs that have got to twenty billion quickly or fastest to ten billion, I bit blowing everybody away.
But guess who.
Guess who's record they're breaking. It's either IMG which was a fast end jetpy. So here comes ibit getting to ten billion, twenty billion, thirty billion, four or five six times faster than Jeppy, which was in some cases the fastest to that number. You see that, What do you think is there any any bit of like jealousy, like hey, we should get a piece of that action or I
don't know. I'm just curious as the numbers grow and become more astonishing, and a firm like JP Morgan, which is traditionally it's not what you do, and if that's your roadmap, it wouldn't make sense. But on the flip side, more companies are doing it, and it's growing and growing, and you may hear clients asking for just curious, how you you know, wrestle with all that.
Yeah, listen, I think we have a guiding principle around what types of ETFs we will launch, and we're going to launch ETFs that we believe are durable and have a strategy for how to incorporate into a long term investment strategy. Now, I know that may sound kind of boring, but boring can be quite successful investment investment strategy. So that may mean that we move, we lose some trendy fatty ideas, but we're going to you know, we're going
to stick to our guns. I think that cryptocurrencies are quite a speculative investment, investment in quotation, and it has significantly higher volatility in the S and P five hundred, no income, no intrinsic value. We don't know how to incorporate it into an investment. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying we we don't see a way. That we have summer analysts who come in and one of the projects we always give them is give us
an investment thesis around crypto bitcoin. Uh, And they come back and say, we can't tell you how to value a bitcoin. And so that's that's the premise around our investment capabilities. And listen, there are lots of ideas that people are launching water ETFs, animal spirit ETF. So that doesn't mean they're good ideas, and we're going to We're going to stick to those things that we think makes sense for for investors. And that's the discipline we bring to our product development efforts.
If you could pick up one thing in the ETF marketplace and bolt it to your strategy, what would you like to.
Acquire what would I like to acquire?
Yeah, what ETF out there would you most like to bring into your stable?
Listen. I think acquiring things as an asset manager is credibly difficult to do successfully. We run almost four trillion dollars of assets, we have over five hundred strategies. There isn't a gap in our offering. I also find it having built a lot of businesses at JP Morgan over the last thirty nine years, from our global money market fund business to our mutual fund business to our ETF business. Let me tell you it is a hell a lot
more fund building things that it is acquiring things. And now that doesn't mean where we don't look at everything we do because I think it makes you, it makes you smarter. I think there's quite a different culture in the ETF business because it grew out of passive. So the strategy was let's launch against as many indices, be first and own as much of the market as possible.
I think as that relates to active, it's quite a different philosophy that you need to bring to it to be successful because the strategies ultimately have to helperform in order to succeed, and that means it needs to be more focused, and they need to be capabilities that you have total confidence over full market CYCLI or likely to outperform. So ours isn't to do everything at all costs. It's to do things at a very focused level where we
have a competitive advantage. I'd rather build it than buy it.
You're in a good spot. I mean you really, I get that. A lot of these firms, Joel that have acquired firms, they came in late and again they launched a couple of products on their terms and nobody cared. And they're like, oh my god, they panicked and they just bought companies like I said, JP Morgan had they just it's like they just came in. You know. I used that metaphor of a castaway. You know, Tom Hanks
is the middle manager. At the beginning, he's like a little chunky and then you know, forty five minutes in the movie, he's like weighs one hundred and forty pounds and he's spearfishing. That's a legacy active manager on day one versus third year in. But JP Morgan kind of came almost as the spearfisher guy. And that's you know again, and I don't know, does Jamie Diamond take pride in this because it really is unusual to come out and sort of pass all of these massively popular mutual fund
companies and active assets. Does he understand that, like, hey, my firm is taking in four times more flows than any other active fund company out there? Does he follow that much going on?
Is?
I think he greatly appreciates the asset management business and the strength of what we do. Now. Remember Jping Morgan Chase is number one in investment banking, number one in retail banking in the United States, So perhaps his expectations are that we bring the same from management business.
Yes, he's like, why are you not number one?
But listen, you know, I think the thing that the board of Jping Morgan Chase, one of the things that I think they've done a great job is they allow us to manage our business as an asset manager. That's the way we compensate eight people. Our business has a very long tail. The decisions that we made five ten years ago are the reason that we're having success today. So it's a little bit different, and I think they, you know, allow us to manage the business that way.
All right, final question, it's one that we always ask what is your favorite ETF ticket other than any that JP Morgan does, other.
Than a JP Morgan ETF. Oh that's a very difficult question. That's why I asked. I mean, I really only know our ETF.
So yeah, any any that give you a chuckle when somebody says moo, for instance, does that make you laugh?
I laugh quite a bit when I watch look at ETF product development and what's what's coming out? That is? That is for sure?
They just fired. They just filed one Jedi, which is like JEPI Jedi is a I believe it's a Space ETF or something like that Drone.
I would hope it Space.
That's a good ticker.
It is a good ticker. So Jetty Jedi and now Jetpy anyway, Jetpy's pretty good. It's I'm a big fan of vowels, and you guys have a lot of vowels. Jet by jet Q. It's just easy for an analyst. Jpst a little trick here, but hello, what do you call it? Hello? Sometimes I have names for tickers and the asset managers, like nobody at our shop calls at that like jaw.
You're not pronouncing it great Janus.
People are like, that's j triple A, only the Bloomberg people call it JAW And I'm like, all right, well.
Anyway, that's one of the amazing things about the ETF effort at JP Morgan. I'm not sure portfolio managers knew the tickers of our mutual funds. Well, let me tell you. They know the tickers of the ets that they're running, and they you know, what's probably the most important product capability that they they offer, and it's how they get paid. They get paid and the shares of the ETFs that they run on behalf of clients. It's pretty unique.
Ola Jade, that's a good one.
What's jade?
That is the active developed markets? So you got a temp some some interesting ones in here. You wouldn't it would be weird if you went too crazy. You don't want to go to full.
I'm sure there's the full direction.
They're the crazy ticker. Yeah, you want to middle it out?
Yeah, yeah, all right, George got going to stay mainstream.
George Gosh, thanks for joining us on trias. Thank you, John Munch, thanks for listening to trillions. Until next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg terminal Bloomberg dot com. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you'd like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. Hit us up on social I'm at Joel Weber Show, He's at Eric Falchine's. Trillions is produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Brendan Newman is our executive producer. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast