Comedian James McCann Destroys Triggernometry

You're all touchy about Grenfell Tower. You're a good Catholic boy, aren't you, Jim? Yes, masturbating. Trying to stop there. How's that going? Not great. You gotta take back America. I believe in ya. Ta take back America? Yeah. I'm not an Enoch Powell supporter. He was gay. What do you mean Enoch Powell was gay? I mean he was a gay man.

Who did gay things. He was married to a woman his entire life. Of course. No married man could participate in homosex. I love gay people. Big fan. Obviously the gay stuff has to stop. But as people, some of the fans. That's not gonna work. Sounds like people hate freedom on this podcast. Last summer, Francis and I spent a week with Ralston College students and professors in Greece, and learning about the roots of Western civilization in the very place they emerged was genuinely moving.

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Welcome to Tricknome Trick. It's an honor and a privilege to be here. You said that way too fast. Yeah, I was ready. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, it's great to have you on. Yeah. I'm not gonna get arrested in the UK from being on this show. Are you planning to go to the UK? One day. Well then you don't know. I went last year. No, it w it wasn't that bad. I thought you could get away with uh more things than I thought I could get away with. Hm. You're all touchy about Grenfell Tower.

Yeah, a little bit. Like really, every strata of society doesn't want to talk about Grenfell Tower. Yeah. And did you try and make jokes about this in the class? I did, I did a good five on Grenfell Tower. Like a like a tower on fire. Um No, it's it's it's really like a national it does it's not clear from the UK media from abroad that that has stayed with The UK people. But boy, you will think about it a lot. No one wants to talk about it. You say that it's like the N word.

It really takes the air out of a room. Did you do that as well? Did you do that much? No, I left that one out. You you know what is comedy but finding where the crack is in someone's You find whether difficult ten you know, the points in the body politique that have to be unspooled. And that's yours, I think. Really? Talking about all the musks, that was fine. A lot of musks. Really? That's interesting. People were happy to talk about the musk.

Compared to Grenfell Tower? Wow. They wanted to talk about the towers on those mosques. It was beautiful mosques. I did keep calling them beautiful mosques. That might have helped. That might've eased it. And and and what what did you think of London when you were there? You said it wasn't that bad. What were you expecting and what was a reality? Thought it would be like peck em over the whole thing.

But it was really just localized to Peckham. They were very nice. And Peckham, by the way, great. Love Peckham. Peckhamplex? Beautiful. I did go to the convenience store where you can buy a knife next to a schema. What do you call them here? What do you call them in the UK? A face covering. Not that kind of face covering the uh not a ski mask. Yeah. Yeah balaclava. Balaclava's next to the knives behind the counter. Oh. Is it convenience?

It's too convenient. Shouldn't have to go to two shops if you're gonna murder people. But it was I mean, it's beautiful. Great chicken. You guys don't like KFC over there. You look down on it, you've got proper chicken plates. I wouldn't say we've got proper chicken places, we just

We've finished. We've got PFC, we've got yeah, we've got we've got all the knockoffs. We'd love it. Pecum fried chicken. That's it. It's a great brand. It might be Pakistani. But the important thing is it's a great country and you're on the way back. Yeah? Maybe. Not so sure. But you're here in the US, you're Aussie originally, right? Yeah. How how did that happen? It was kind of an accident. Uh I got offered a job and I got fired.

A year and a half ago and uh I was in Steubenville, Ohio, which is just outside of West Virginia, on the Ohio River, uh unemployed. And uh three months of rent and no money. And then Shane Gillis said, You can come and open for me and I moved to Austin. And it's been great. But it was a very strange I got the full poor American experience. That's not good, is it? Yeah, I don't want to be poor in America. No. I I always say America's the is probably the best place in the world to be rich. Yes.

Okay place and and a good place to be medium income, but a horrific place to be poor. Is that about right? You haven't been on the bus yet. No. Oh I've been on the bus. Oh no. No, no. I took a uh I was y because when I was skin in Oh two, the first time I came to America and I took the bu the bus in LA. Yeah. And I was the only white person on the bus and they looked at me almost as if to say, How has this Jew ruined his life?

I believe it. Oh, how have you fallen so far? You had all these advantages. There's been a mistake. Yeah. Whereas in the UK public transport is very normal. Yeah. Rich people do it. Yeah. And it's nice. Yeah. It's kinda nice. Not not as nice as it used to be. But anyway. The buses are beautiful.

I mean the bu you guys really pick graphic design on the buses to work that red bus in London. Love it. Mm. Walk you can walk everywhere. I love that. That do you miss that in the US? That's yeah. Yes. Yeah. We need a walkable

You need to be able to walk places. Yeah. No, to have a body politique, to have people congeal and love their neighbor. You've got to meet them sometimes. You can't just be in your car all the time. I g I completely agree with you. Yeah. I think it's so important. Like you wanna you wanna think. You go for a walk. Yes. And it's so interesting. Like

You talk to the Aussies and the Europeans and you go to them and you always say it low because it's kind of taboo because Americans think you're weird. You're like, Do you miss walking? And they go I do it. I try and do it here. It never ends great. But I have got to see a lot more of Spanish. Style. Austin, which I would never see otherwise. Mhm. I would just drive from my little white suburban neighborhood to the place I work. But if I go for a walk, I have a fajita breakfast.

I have a little weird pineapple drink. No one speaks English. It's great. But you never encounter that. You never had you don't know what's out there. are always in the automobile. So come back to the poor thing. Okay, yeah. In America. Yeah. There are more workarounds here for being poor than people think. Like uh for medical care, you can't there are little hokey

If you keep asking and keep trying, you can get care as a poor person, I discovered. Pe specialists will see you for little money if you call ten of them. But it is you have to have a hustle.

You know what I mean? You have to really push for it. But it's out there. This thing of like it's a nightmarish system. They can hit you with a bad bill, but it's it's not like a third world country for the poor. But boy, we could do something about the why can't they do public transport? Why don't they want to?

'Cause everyone wants to have their own car. But even in like liberal California, if they tried building a high speed rail between San Francisco and LA and you'd think that would be the easiest thing in the world, they can't do it. It's billions of dollars over budget and it it hasn't been built. They cannot. They cannot will themselves to have a train. Why do you think that is? I don't know. You've been here and you know, you've been in a country where they really have it.

We can't build anything anymore either. No, we can't. Rishi Rishi Sunak got rid of that high speed link between the north and Birmingham. You're gonna build that other train, right? To build anything basically in Britain is like five times more expensive than anywhere else because if there's some rare bat that happens to live near where you want to put the train tracks, you have to do a multi million pound consultation. We've got a bedger.

Badgets. Is that it? Yeah, we love badgets. We love all animals in the UK. We do. We we sentiment sentimentalize animals like no other nation. Oh yeah, yeah, you can you can kill people and no one would give a shit. But if you kill if you displace a badger, yes, you're in trouble. Maybe they should say that they're grooming gangs for animals.

Then people will talk about it. No, people will cover it up. What's happening with the gro uh when I was there years ago, everybody knew about the grooming gangs. People took liberals, Guardian readers would go, Oh yeah, the grooming gangs. That's real. Everybody acknowledges that there were grooming gangs.

Nothing has ever been done about it. Everyone's been very quiet about it. Why? There's an inquire well There's an inquiry uh that is happening now and all the victims and survivors have res a lot of them have resigned from it'cause they th they say the government isn't taking it too seriously, and the government isn't taking it seriously enough. Because

um of the diment the of the racial component, let's say. Right. Right. Because it it Pakistani uh people b from a very particular part of Pakistan are way over represented in these crimes. if you start addressing that seriously, you then blow the central ideal ideological component out, which is we're all the same. Yeah. Um and they just can't do anything. They've got five racial categories and they're very

Open to they're all different. They know whose fault it is. And for different I mean, really d you know. White people take blame for some things and but you guys just clump all the non whites into one BAME? How do I say that? Yes. We don't do BAME anymore'cause people realise it was kinda retarded. But you've got Uh you've got Asian. And Asian means something different. Asian means

uh Pakistani, Bangladeshi, India and etcetera and like we there's the Asian community. East of the Urals, everybody's Asian. Which is kinda weird'cause they all kinda hate each other. Like the Indians and the Pakistanis are not best friends. Historically there are problems still. Yeah. Yeah. But when they come to Britain, they're Asian.

Great. It just seems like a wide cudgel to It is. To deal with. Yeah, you gotta deal with the grooming gangs. I think you'll figure it out. I d why? Hm? You've got to. Why do you think we'll work it out? Stiff up a little.

That's about it. Are you worried that's the you're not convincing me. I'm trying to convince myself. I would like Britain to be great, but I don't see I mean how you don't have very much land. You don't have very much your military is very small. What are we hoping for for Britain? What is the dream that Brexit could achieve? What is like what is what is best case scenario when Nigel Farage says we're gonna make this a great place?

What does that mean? Where is the growth opportunity? Is it just repatriation? There's got to be other stuff. I think what Farage is talking about when he's m says makes Britain great again is particularly under the EU we had to live and abide by certain laws and legislations which weren't in British interest. So by becoming independent we could be the masters of our own destiny. You can make your small cheeses.

This is the example. Well But is there hope that a factory will be built somewhere at some point? Well this is the thing you you coming back to public transport and cars, right? W in in Europe and in Britain especially we have this thing called net zero. Yeah. Which is Even the craziest liberals in America all think all want a big car and want to be able to drive around and have electricity in their house and for it to be cheap and free and gas to be

you know, priced at as low as possible and all that. Yeah. In Britain we don't have that. In Britain we wanna make energy very expensive to save the planet. People were annoyed by the low emissions zone. I did find. They were happy to talk about the low emission zone when I was on stage there. Grenfield Tower, not at all. Low emission zone, that started to be something people were acknowledging was a problem. No?

I just stumbled around for two weeks and spoke to some people. And they talked about the low emission zone. There was a lot of people wanted to complain about the low emission zone. I heard that uh who's the who's the current uh Prince of Wales? Uh the current Prince of Wales is uh w is William William. I heard he got pegged. I d I don't believe it. I don't believe it. But that's what people are saying. That's like a nasty rumor about him that I found out.

I love Kate. You w why do you like Kate? Charisma. Aura. What's there not do you not love Kate? I'm a fan. Really? Yeah. I'm a huge Kate fan. I don't think that her husband was pegged. I don't think she would marry a man who did that. I don't think she would do that.

I heard about I'm just saying these are the things I heard about when I was in the UK. This is all I know about the UK. Yeah. It's that and the new station. But the future king gets pegged. Yeah. We we not true. Nasty rumor. Yeah. No one should even talk about it. Well I'm glad we've established that. Yeah. And the new statesman podcast. We can't forget about that. Who's this l there's this lady who writes for the Atlantic now?

Who interviewed Jordan Peterson? Helen Lewis. Yes. She's now uh we would disagree about almost everything. She's very good. She is very good. Yeah. She's interviewed me. I I I respect her even though I d yeah, like you say, I don't agree with things. But she had a very her and Stephen Bush had a very charismatic when they were in charge of the New Statesman podcast, that was a great podcast. Everyone was having fun.

Seemed like the Labour Party might be cool and groovy and people would like them. Didn't turn out that way, I understand. This is all I know about Britain. I'm just throwing every British fact I know. But James, let's go back to America. Okay. Cause your stand up deals with a lot of America uh your love of America.

In particular the quirky little idiosyncrasies of this co of this beautiful nation. Yeah. So what do you think of it? Do you love it? Are you American now? Are you America? I don't really believe in immigration and uh being able to become someone you're you weren't born in. But I love America. You don't believe in transitioning for immigration? Yes. Transcultural is a cultural determinist. Yes. And uh no, I mean it's a look, it's a great country. I like college football.

And I like traveling around and all the beautiful American people. But there is this gulf between them and m that I to become American feels What's the gulf? That's the Gulf of America. It's um I don't know. I think maybe as a Commonwealth person uh some s kind of irony. I don't wanna That sounds like a dig. People often you know, from the countries of the monarchy, we dig on America and they we go they don't understand irony, they don't have

the bleakness and the darkness that we have in our soul. They don't though. They give it a go sometimes. The hipsters in Brooklyn. Yeah, and and Jews in America, they've got that sense of shit. Jews everywhere. Right. Nothing but nice things to say about the Jews' capacity for cynicism. Big historically well informed cynicism. But yeah, in in the Greater America, there's like there's a Puritanism here and like a

Childishness makes it sound bad, but there's like uh yeah, optimism and hope and I find that It's very uncomfortable, isn't it? Yes. I don't know what to do with it. But it's also tr I mean, they have that and then they've built a beautiful, huge, powerful Yeah. It's great. It is great. And Britain must have had that once. I'm sorry to turn it back, but you guys have I mean, do you when you were running an empire, were you like that? No.

So when did it kick in? When did all the cynicism start with the Brits? World War One I think. What is it? Yeah, yeah, but yeah. You won't Yeah, but Pyrrhic victory though. Yeah. You held on to the Empire after that one? For a bit. Yeah. And then World War II is is what's held on.

You guys didn't even want the empire anymore. You lost the moral legitimacy in owning other countries. Yeah. That's a that's your problem. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think we should go back out there and reestablish what is ours? I think that would be an interesting start for the not for the other countries, that might be really bad for them, but for Britain's feeling of a purpose and a place in the world. I mean, having lost India.

Is India better off? Yeah, this will be good. Is India better off for having lost the British hand? You gave'em railroads and infrastructure and you kept the peace between the Muslim and the Hindu. Is that not something to is that not nice? You stop people burning their wives? Did they burn their wives? This is like my favourite British.

You know, like they go to a wife burn is like some commander of the British army and they the the Indians start burning their wives and they go, You can't do that the Indians go, this is our culture. And the British go, Well it's our culture not to let people burn their wives. It was after the man had died the woman would have to be burned to join him, I think. By the Vikings. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of a boat. Yeah. Say a lady. Most days for us are jam packed.

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But that's look, th let's talk about the Empire. You are one of our former colonies. That's right. Yeah. And d do you feel a sense of gratitude to to to Australia? Every day. every day with my hot water bottle and my cup of tea and my Father Christmas instead of Santa Claus. And my yeah, who wouldn't like it's very n the British. And when I go there, boy, it feels like home in the UK. Hm. Because I'm looking at you and y you look a little Irish to me, James McCann. It's in there.

But even then, what is Ireland if not I mean they're not as open to saying some nice things happen. With the British, yeah. Obviously Ireland for the Irish and up the Ra and all the good stuff. But we've got to acknowledge we've got to acknowledge that there was give and take. Someone's been hanging out with Shane.

Shane does not endorse sectarian violence. Well, I would like it if kneecap were not addicted to cocaine so visibly. I've never met them, but everything I see from them, they look very I don't think that's the spirit of Irish independence, is it? Just to be gacked out of your mind all the time?

The the thing about kneecap that I find very troubling is their music is good. Yeah, it's great. So it doesn't matter w the crazy shit that they say. Well I mean I'm not saying it doesn't matter, it matters. Mm-hmm. But also their music is good. Well that would that's true of all Irish revel this is where Hamas have a big problem long term. The music game. No good song. Yeah. ISIS, not one banger.

Well some explosion. But uh Yeah, the Irish have great Signette O'Connor. Yeah. Do you know C Matt? No. She's great. Beautiful Irish songbird. She's a big sa Graham Norton has a sort of lyrical quality to his I'm not sure he's he's an up the rock kinda guy, but yeah. If you g I reckon I reckon if you get Graham Norton after a couple of drinks.

Well, we could talk about sectarian violence with him. Wouldn't that be fun to go on the Graham Norton show and get t they you know, they bring you alcohol. Yeah. That's my dream is to have eight Guinnesses and by the end be going, Ew the rock, Graham.

Wouldn't it that be fun? I think that would be fun. I mean it would be a fantastic way to end your career in general. I think they might edit it out. Yeah. Yeah. And edit you out. Shame. Shame on the BBC. Why does it exist? You've got state media. Yeah. Get rid of it. Here's the thing about the BBC, which every single person in the UK will say, I love the BBC, I loved what it was, I loved the comedy. Let's be fair, the the good comedy the BBC produced and Channel Four.

Those sitcoms were the best very good job for a very long time. They didn't do they did the best job. They're better than all American sitcoms. The Simpsons is You've done nothing to compare with the Simpsons, but I will say you've done a very good job. What about faulty towers? It's fine. What I what excuse me. Okay. What about the other uh Monty Python stuff? Life of Brian. Right. Oh, you shut up now, huh? No, no, I mean it's fine. I mean obviously deeply anti Catholic, but otherwise.

What about the downsides though? How dare you? How dare you speak that way about the emerging religion in your country? As the Church of England withers on the vine, it's over for them. Are you covering that? I know you asked that at the end about what's the one thing we should talk about. We will. I'll save it.

You kind of already gave it away. Church of England is collapsing and no one's talking about it. All the Africans have just left. Well, w the Church of England basically is like become uber woke. Sure yeah. And ever ladies. You're letting ladies perform the priestly rites? That ain't right. Shut that down. You're a good Catholic boy, aren't you, Jim? Yes. Well I mean obviously.

lot of problems. Full of sin. I think dogmatically I'm on the page. I try to be. A lot of problems. Going on the road, going to hotels, being all alone, masturbating is trying to stop that. How's that going? Not great. I mean they give you a a Bible so you can read it afterwards and cleanse yourself. Do they give the there's a book of Mormon? Do you not know that? No, I've never seen it before. Someone's never been suicidal in an American hotel room. No, that's right there.

It's amazing because there's so many Mormons in this country, but in England it's seen as this kind of weird the only thing if you say to a person in the UK about the Mormons and they say name one thing, they'll say the musical, the Book of Mormon. Yeah. Which is great. Well y it's an American centric religion. Mm. It's all about manifest destiny and how good America is. So I can understand if you guys are unhappy about that. You gotta take'em back. You gotta take back America. I believe in

Ta take back America. Yeah. Civil war number four. I'm guessing there was a third one in between. Maybe a second. It's your it was yours. You had the right to it. They beat ya. You can beat it. You tried again. You tried you had that what? Eighteen something war. You tried to take America back once and it didn't pan out. But do you ever You think this is a good moment right now? They're looking for leadership. They're looking for leadership. They say no king.

They can have one. Kirstarmer. That's not who I'd put forward as the guy. Why do you all hate him? This is the He's the least popular man though Y but see this is the thing, is like No one actively hates Keir Starmer. Right. The country's just gone to shit and he happens to be in charge and he can't do anything to not make a wave. Is it noticeably more shit than it was ten years ago? Caveat. Yes, it is. There are people who hate Keir Starmer and they're all on the left.

Uh okay. What I'm saying though is like well I guess what I'm saying is it's not actually his fault. Right. He's just a boring guy. Who can't fix the problems of the country because they're very hard. But what fix I mean, how would you fix any of the problems? All of the Britain's grandeur is built up you have a you had a huge empire. Before the empire you were what, a a pirate state?

There was nothing going for in terms of world importance before the fifteen hundreds, what did Britain There was no great towers, there were no great marble things, there was no uh top hats and People, Mary Poppins type behavior. It's all built on the wealth of empire. And you give up the empire and you go, why is it all falling apart? It's because you're not extracting wealth. From Africa. I I think you have to choose between being a great country and accepting a mediocre place in the world.

And sadly that would require a lot of violence. But you're gonna become the Singapore of Europe? Switzerland's already done that. You're not gonna get all the banking. No? Switzerland has a independence to it that the Brits don't even want. You're so pleased to be you have the European continental ideology on the side. So who should we colonize, do you think?

It's a great question. I haven't decided yet. Certainly Normandy you have a historical right to. Yes, absolutely. And Brittany. It's in the name. Maybe that's what I meant to say. They still play bagpipes there. Well, in Brittany. Yeah. I think they'll they'll that's a reasonable that's a reasonable uh excuse. Henry V takes that?

Am I right? You're testing our history in the state. They don't know about any of that here. I'm excited to get to speak to anyone who knows the name of more than one king. How about Henry the Eighth? Henry the Eighth Terrible Guy. Is that because you're Catholic and he set up the Church of England? Yes. He set up the Church in England. Elizabeth sets up the Church of England. Really? I believe I'm getting that right. I'm being scoured. Check it out. Check it out.'Cause he's got a laptop.

I think I'm right. I s I I'm pretty sure that Henry established the Church of England. He was the first head of the Church of England. He maintains that they're still part of the Catholic Church, but that he happens to be the head of that church specifically in it. He doesn't break with them on doctrinal points, and I think he acknowledges papal supremacy in the rest of the church.

Possibly I mean do you know the Blake poem the the song Jerusalem? Yeah, of course. And did those feet in ancient time. This is the conspiracy that Christ in his youth goes to Britain. and establishes the church there before he establishes it in Jerusalem and thereby Rhine. And thus there is some sort of weird

clandestine British supremacy that he can lay claim to. That does sound very like some of these American religions who believe that Jesus You guys fit started it. Once again they're just aping the British Cultural trend, I believe I think I'm getting all of that. This isn't true, right? This is a thing. I think this is all true. No, no, no not that bit. Go on, Billy. Uh Thank you so much. Where are you reading that? Fact checked. Where are you reading that?

Get that on Wikipedia and do a little deeper dive. I'm not accepting your chat GPT take on this. Fact check failed. No, I'm right. No, you can't just say that. This is the problem with the modern world. Right here. Right here. I'll be vindicated by history. No, this is this is an American. You present them with facts about their crazy little conspiracy theory and their rebuttal to you is

I've turned my phone off to be polite. I can't look it up. No, I'm right. No, I'm right. I think I'm right. This is the modern I know you. I you clearly I think I'm right. I I it doesn't matter how many times you say it. The people will decide. But see May history judge me. History will we are judging you right now. We are history. Yeah. We sit here in judgment.

I think I'm right. There's four people in this room that don't agree with you. Well you're all British. You all have you're all invested in this Church of England. No no one no one is not invested in the monarch is the head of the religion, surely it's still you can be executed for not being. You I d I don't think there's anything you could be doing Britain to get ITQ. I don't want to talk about it too much. I wanna leave that to the end. But boy

Do you not think the Church of England collapsing is the big problem ultimately facing your country? You were run on a state religion. You've had uh You had a real thing going for yourselves. Mm-hmm.

That is a major part. The fact that we don't have a religion which leaves a vacuum at the heart of culture. Yeah. Which therefore means that there's there's n there's nothing that we all agree on. Whereas here they do have the constitution and there is like a There is like a weird love of the constitution here that is I've never encountered anywhere else.

Like the founding fathers are sort of saints. You you don't go against the founding fathers. The constitution is a beautiful document and must be respected and can't just be Remove I mean you guys don't even have it. No, we have an unwritten constitution. Which is not a constitution. And we've got one but it's very boring. It's just a you know, how much does the Governor General get paid per year? There's not a lot of rights enclosed in the Australia.

Except by like the penumbra of well, they have a freedom of religion, so freedom of speech. implied. Do you want a freedom of speech in the UK? Yeah. Do you want that enshrined by law or do you want that as a norm? As an uh everything is always better as a norm. Yes. Because they would disagree here. Yeah. I think as an uh having things as a norm is much better.

Sure. But the question is is that sustainable'cause norms are subject to change and laws aren't. Right. But it's much better like my view is it's much better to have a society when no one kills each other than having a law against murder. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And to the extent that you can achieve that, that's better. But you've lost the norm of free speech in the UK, you know. Correct. Yes. And so what is the I mean, how would you get that back?

Dunno. Um, I think the only way is via the law. I think the only way is to enshrine it in law. And then to have it tested in the in the court of law. Or maybe we could stop teaching three year olds the if someone said something that hurt their feelings, that's a violation of the you know Losing the schools is big. Right. Yeah. Uh that's where all of this shit comes from.

And there have been attempts to sort of wrestle that, but like Toby Young spent the last fifteen or whatever years trying to take over. He was trying to start up charter schools. Is this correct?

And this was How do you know so much about the UK? It's weird. It's on the internet. I spoke to a lot of people when I was there trying to figure out I also I liked the Toby Young book. He used to have uh the funniest articles in The Spectator every time. So I Looked into what he was doing, and then it seems like I mean, the right was not really interested in holding on to the institutions anywhere for the last hundred years.

We just let the universities go. We let the schools go. We let the church go. Maybe that's pivoting back now, but I don't I mean in America, boy, the right is trying to march through the institutions in a big way. But is that Is it working? Certainly it's making a lot of people very unhappy. And there's big protests and the New York Times is going delivered. But that's what that's what that whole Project twenty twenty five thing is, is let's stack

They call it the deep state, but you just have the civil service. There's a much nicer, cheerier name for it. But there's is there any sense that I mean this all right, this is weird because reform is probably gonna win this next election.

We spoke about this briefly. If nothing changed, if the if the election's held today and they don't change, you know, if they don't get preferential voting instead of first past the post and all these things, all right, then you have three, four hundred reform guys in Parliament. The whole civil service is still... Whatever that Oxbridge b B C Guardian Reading. Whatever that thing is. Blob. The blob. You call it the blob? Yeah. I like the blob.

But how do you is there any how would you change the blow up? That's the real fight, isn't it? That is the real fight because it needs what is called root and root and branch reform. Yeah. Because you can't implement policies because What the minister does is the Minister of Let's say of Health presents it to the civil servants.

But it if the civil servants don't want to enact the policy, yeah, then the strategies they use is they don't refuse to do it. They just make it really difficult, make it slow, tedious, arduous. So by the time it gets through it's instead of taking weeks or a month, it will take months if not years. This is yes minister and yes prime minister. Which is a great see this uh the you're as a country you're very comfortable with you had a sitcom explaining that that's how it works.

And then Americans they go, there's a deep state and people freak out and go, No, there's not. And it's like of well of course there's people running the government that have jobs.

Who aren't just elected, who are there before and after. But the right I mean, Thatcher sort of steps out of wanting to even attempt to remedy that. They just go, We'll make government smaller. We won't we'll give government less to do. We won't try and Keep government as it is but put our people in there instead of the other parties being. But is there any I mean are people to is is Nigel Farage trying to do that? Yeah.

Yeah, no. They part of what they want to do is cut the number of civil servants, get rid of all the ones that are ideologically possessed, so to speak, et cetera. But the actual biggest challenge for reform, you talk about three hundred, four hundred guys in parliament, is where do you find

three to four hundred people. Who are good people, who are conscientious people, who don't have a scandal rating? Th there's no way. Well that's part of it. But it but you also then have to be charismatic. Because this is the difference between the US and the UK. President Trump needed

Like ten people. to be the face of his But no but I mean even prior t prior to prior to forming the government to get reelected. What he needed was him, Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Junior, Elon at the time, J Dvance, right? The I probably missed Vivek was also involved. You had these like six, seven people. And that's what you needed to win. Then you get into government and you can appoint whoever you want. Yeah.

What what Nigel Farage has to do is have three to four hundred people who are actually capable of getting elected in their own right under the reform umbrella. Yeah. And that and finding three to four hundred people who can do that. Yeah. You know how at the beginning of every year people say this is a year things change. Then by February, everything looks the same. If you've been sitting on a business idea for months or even years, 2026 is your line in the sand.

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There's not an easy pipeline in Britain, I wouldn't think. Well, so you're gonna get, you know, I mean they've got a lot of like puritanical small colleges here. They've got a lot of it's a big country. They've got they've got a whole I don't want to say right wing, but they've got a right wing infrastructure of academia and journalism that is not You have an aristocracy, you have the Tories.

But that uh th they don't seem to be a part of this reform thing. You seem to have sidestepped them. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that sad? No, because no, the Conservative Party isn't really kind of fit for purpose if we're being honest, because the problem is No, exactly. He has an allergic reaction to them. But it's fourteen years that they were in power and they did

you know, they did nothing. They d in fact they just made the problems worse. And in the f words of Kemi Badenock, the current leader, who was in who was in government at the time, we talked right and governed left, which basically admits that they gaslit a nation. Particularly when it comes to immigration. I mean yeah, the immigration thing is It's a big issue. You could say that. Um, but I don't understand Well, I didn't want to talk about Enoch Powell.

Uh there was a rest is history podcast about him recently. They've done Enoch Powell. And what they don't acknowledge is that the things that he they do very briefly they acknowledge that a lot of what he said has come to pass. I'm not an Enoch Powell supporter. I've got to say that. It was gay.

You guys didn't want to believe that Enoch Powell was gay. But I'm telling ya, if you look that up. Okay, Billy, look that up. But he What do you mean Enoch Powell was gay? I mean he was a gay man who did gay things. He was married to a woman his entire life. Of course. No married man could participate in homosexual. That's not the pro that's not the problem with Enoch Power. People have a right to be attracted to people of the same sex.

But he the crux of that speech that is the rivers of blood speech. Seems to be he's worried about the native population of Britain's response to the immigration. And that does seem to be taking place. There is like a there is a there looks like from outside there's a groundswell of anti-immigrant feeling. There is. Well that's rough. But I don't I don't think it's fair to say that that's what Enoch Powell was worried about.

He was worried about the way that at least I understand it, the fact that the native population would be put in a position of relative weakness in in up in relation to immigrants. He c so there's the that expression that the Whatever the black man will have the whip hand over them. But he I think when he closes in that speech, he's saying the thing to be worried about is the response of white Britons

uh as they have that feeling. Not that it'll take place. I think he's he's doing an odd There's more nuance in that speech. speech than I think. I'm not convinced about it. Francis, when you said to me, let's get James McCann the comedian, I think it'd be great. I did not think we'd be talking about Enoch Powell being gay. Oh, we've gone quiet over Enoch Powell being gay, have we? This is a potentially one case. But then someone else on these

He had many what? He so he appar so just for you the people won't be able to hear that, allegedly one of his tutors said that he had a homosexual affair. Yes. But then someone else said he just hadn't met any girls yet. Which is always the excuse really, isn't it? Yeah. I mean gay guys do meet a lot of girls.

And also as well Why is his gayness or otherwise relevant? Because I think that's why you guys hate him, because you're such a homophobic country and you won't listen to the nuance of what he was saying in that speech because of his homosexuality. And I think that's wrong and you should be more open. Well, you're a Catholic, you should think that's right. We I don't know if you know this. There's a lot of gay guys in there. Catholic I love gay people. Big fan.

Obviously the gay stuff has to stop, but as people some of the best. Some of the best. So back to Enoch. So you think Do you know what? There there's people watching it going, I knew they finally, finally, they're talking about Eamlock Powell. Well you guys you weren't able to have a coherent conversation about immigration.

For ages. Yeah. And then you like I mean, all of Europe has done this and then they seem to be overreacting. I don't like the alternative for Deutschland. No, I d I mean that doesn't seem nice. I would like a nice centre right Government who can have a normal amount of immigration so that people don't get really angry and but this is the problem, right? In Britain we had a nice centre right government which was the Tories.

who governed like they were li completely left wing, who left the borders open, who allowed illegal immigration on a scale on i I mean, the scale of it I I o I don't know if you heard me say this, but the The year I came to Britain which is ninety five, ninety six, depending on when you start counting. Um

N fifty five thousand people a year came to the UK legally. Yeah. Applied for a visa, came with a passport, blah blah blah. That's the number of people who come to Britain illegally right now, every year. That's the scale. And the legal number is so more people came to Britain legally in the last twenty years than the entire history of Britain. More people in twenty years than in two thousand years.

Swamped by people who weren't born there and then slowly integrate them. The Vikings didn't immigrate the Sark. No, no, no. This is all complete bollocks. These are all violent uh what Of course. Well this is the nicest invasion you've ever had. I mean as far as the invasions of Britain go, this one is pretty smooth. If you view it as immigration, terrible failure. If you think of it as an invasion,

It's really nice. It's pretty decent. Yeah. Never before has an invasion had so much back and forth and meal sharing and beautiful films made about it. Sexual assault levels are not what you'd expect from a Viking horde. Again. Grooming gangs, so bad. But if that's the extent of the rape that's happening across from a wave of invasion, I mean the people of Germany when the Soviets were coming in, they would have dreamed for levels of rape like that. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean also when the Soviets came over, the Germans didn't give them benefits and stays in full star hotels. You might have to get rid of all the benefits. Yeah. We might. That's sad. Well, you know, it it isn't it isn't because I've always said this as an immigrant myself. I I don't really understand why people who are not citizens of the country would receive access to the benefits. Well it's sad to watch someone die. of an illness that you could feel.

Sure. Mm-hmm. Uh I would exclude healthcare from that personally, but what what I'm saying is if you can't sustain yourself in the country to which you've immigrated. Yes. Then you should go to your country. Yeah. In Australia we this is never the conversation is about benefits and immigrants and things'cause we have rich immigrants. That's the we're facing a I don't know of a country in the northern hemisphere that's having this, but it's quite hard to get to Australia if you're

I mean there's a big sea and there's a lot of policemen in the sea. But we've got very wealthy people from India and China coming and they They can support themselves, but they also take, you know, housing. The housing market is flooded with new arrivals. We've got hundreds of thousands of people showing up and we can't build houses quick enough.

So and there's still the unease, even though there's not the benefit conversation. There's still a a sense of displacement and uh I think Australia's getting pretty rowdy. I haven't been there for it. But it looks like They're not happy. You know what w I always found interesting about Australia is that on the one hand you've got this macho sporting culture of like you know, the the bloke representing. Absolutely. Look at you. You're a big hunkin' man, James. But you've also

Yeah, y you went pretty woke and a bit doo doo. Yeah. No but and this is uh kangaroo, D. H. Lawrence. He picks this as a problem almost a hundred years ago, I think. Really? Yeah, we've always been it's an it's an urban place. It's a cosmopolitan society. We've got five cities. No one lives in the middle. Some people live in the middle, they're great people, I love and respect them. But b as a percentage, it's like eighty percent urban.

And it's all suburbs that go on forever. So you're gonna get I don't wanna be again deterministic about this, but That breeds a certain kind of, you know, success looks more effeminate when you don't have land and farming. All the things I don't want to do. Can we have countries then? I mean, isn't the isn't what's going to be required to stop these immigration problems so beastly that it's is it worth it? This is sort of Camp of the Saints type territory. But uh

You know, I mean we're talking I mean in in Europe they're talking about putting people on trains and shipping them out and s and in this country they're rounding peop they're stopping you on the street and they're bundling you into a van and you have to go over there. And this is this is not an easy wa

Hm. No one likes no one is a big fan of what actually getting on top of immigration looks like in the airplane. Yeah, I don't know about no one but I get your point which is a small number of yeah. Uh no, I I don't know if it's a small number. The way I l s what I see from the American writers there are a lot of people that are not only comfortable but are like delighted.

Right? Which is fair enough. If your country has been invaded as you described it, with millions of people, I understand why people in that moment start to prioritize solving the problem more than their compassion. Yeah. And that will happen naturally when when that's the situation. But your point, I think, broadly is correct, which is the bulk of the general public believe in a border but also don't want to see

the the things that are now happening for that border to exist. Yeah, it's very Which is why y it's better to have a border in the first place. Yeah. But I will say I mean I d I'm I'm meeting many I don't know, right wing luminaries in America. In conversation I don't see anybody

comfortable with, you know, kids being split up or people bundled into vans or whatever. On the internet I see. I felt this about the Charlie Kirk thing where there are all these people online going, It's good. We love killing our enemies. I didn't meet anyone who actually felt that I see people do it yeah, on their Twitter account do it and that gets very magnified.

But to what extent are these people actually existing in the world as well I I totally take your point, but then counter qu counter argument would be I remember a hell of a lot of people that I was friends with. Yeah. Uh in twenty fifteen going, I don't know anyone who voted Brexit the you know, the following year. And I'm going, Well, that's not necessarily a reflection of

what the sentiment is it might be a reflection of who you speak to. Yeah. You you see what I'm saying? I do. Um and The th I mean the evidence is that there are increasing numbers of people on both left and right, in this country and in others, that think political violence is justified. Yeah. I mean they've always felt that in America. Yeah. Like you guys. The Brits, they really You guys were taxing tea and they started killing. Saying you can't be here anymore.

We're running it ourselves. And then America they always got we don't like political violence, but all their greatest treasured historic memories are acts of the Civil War. Yeah. And how many presidents have been assassinated or strawed? I don't know. Two of them might have been poisoned. S four were killed definitely but six men. Oh I thought you said forty six hours like when he said he knocked how it was gay. He was gay.

Why are you looking? Look it up, Jamie. Church in England. Pinoch Powell. Two were poisoned. Maybe. Who? I don't know. JFK definitely wasn't poisoned. Unless it was very mildly sometime before. Right. But uh I think there's two suspected poisons. The the thing is, is not only is America violent politically, America is just a very violent society.

Like you look at the movies, like you for instance look at there's some great Aussie movies by the way. Right? There's not like three. We got Babe in the city. Yeah. Pantana. Which one? Lantana? I haven't seen Lantana. Um well Peter Weir. Well he did a couple of great ones and with the Ozzy director Peter Weir. Mad Max Two. Yeah. Great movie. But they're not violent, really.

I was also gonna say chopper, but that totally undermines the argument. Yeah, undermines the argument. But carry on making it. We we've destroyed the premise of your argument, but go ahead and make it. I'll accept it. Okay. But oh also violent It's just every movie, American movie, seems to have violence running through it. This is a very violent society. So the murder rate the homicide rate in is here is five times what it is in Britain. Uh in places. Yeah.

Uh if you look closer at those numbers in some places, that number's very low here. I don't want to go into it. What wh why have you clammed up about that? Hm? What he's saying is rates of violence are higher in certain areas than in others. Yeah, in the Hamptons In the Hamptons there's not a big murder rate. Right.

Right. In certain parts of St. Louis, boy, watch out. So you don't want to talk about this, but you besmirch a good name of Enoch Powell. Your words, not mine. I think Enoch Powell was uh had a lot of problems. I didn't know I was coming on the Philo Enoch podcast. You're the one that's championing him. Yeah. I said he was gay and wrong. And gay and nuanced, I think is. He was nuanced. He was nuanced. And gay. As me as many of the great I mean, they know about stuff.

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Well I think we should be open to some of the gay people in our lives. Next thing you're gonna say he was non binary. Not to the again, the sex practices. No one should be masturbating, no one should be having sex outside of marriage. Why are you looking at why are you looking at our crew? I want them to back me up. He did have long hair. What do you mean he had long hair? He purposefully had long hair.

He wanted to be like the Spartan. It doesn't make him gay. I mean it what were the Spartans? It's it's a step closer. Spartans? Yeah. I mean They were practicing intercural lovemaking. Yeah. What is the intercural love making bumming each other? No. No. The legs. The what? It was shameful to have sex in the bottom. So they would have sex with the legs. You would push the legs together of the young man. Only a Catholic would know about this. You don't know about intercural love mate? No.

There is nobody I've ever met who knows about intercural lovemaking. Yes there are. They've been keeping it quiet around you. They've been looking at your thick, beautiful legs, and they've gone, I don't know, give the game away.

I think I hope I'm saying that right. That's the only one that I think I might have got wrong. So you're you're in Austin? I'm in Austin. He is in Austin. You're gonna need a better transition wherever you're going. No, I didn't know where I was to go. This is like Theo Vaughn. Remember the first time we interviewed Theo Vaughn? Yeah. We just finished our first ever Rogan episode.

Uh we on that episode we were kind of like we were kind of excited to be there. Yeah. So we were like, ah so Joe was like, oh, do you guys smoke weed? Gave us a joint. Um, and so that we chill out a little bit. Yeah. And then we went home And interviewed Theo Vaughn completely stoned off our heads. And then did a bit of insecural love making. He wouldn't go for that funny business. No. That's why he's got the mullet. Yeah. Lady on the back, fella on the front.

Take your pick with the league. Business up front, party out bank. Business and players. But anyway, it was a pretty crazy interview. And um crowned by him saying, uh, you guys have we call it autism, which is one of the most viral clips of trigonometry ever. To this day we get people coming up to us saying that. You guys have we call it autism. And this this fe this has got the same feeling this episode. I don't think I have autism. I don't think you've got to be a big thing.

I think I'm just on my Do you think the spike in low level autism is something to do with the fact we're all on a phone now for four hours? I think ADHD definitely. Yeah. Because if you think about what a mobile phone is, it's a permanent distraction tool. Yes. So weird. So it would therefore make sense that your ability to concentrate is severely diminished with one of them in your pocket. Yes.

So we gotta get ri that's why I got the small phone, to help me wean off being on a phone. I don't wanna be on a Does the size of the phone make a difference? I mean not really. I got a black and white one that just didn't work very well. That had it like a Kindle screen and a you know, it just you do need a phone to function. Right. This is uh Do you know Ivan Illich? Yes. He wrote Tools for Conviviality. No ah, yes. So same name as the Tolstoy story. But it's also a um

Also a writer that writes about he's dead now, but he wrote about technology and that a a tool can be good in the first phase. You know, you get the car and that's great. Um, and then you build a society for the car and that's dreadful'cause we're all in traffic and we've changed the way that everybody lives. So that the tool can get out of control. New polity, shout out. Mark Barnes he introduced me to this idea and they got a great magazine on it. But

The phone at first the phone is great. You can do everything with the phone. And then we build the whole society for the phone. You can't get from A to B without a phone. You can't no one has a map. No one is able to give directions. The signage on the freeway is dreadful if you don't have GPS now. So how do you live without a phone? You ca we live in a society where it's almost impossible to live without a mobile phone. Right. In a way that twenty years ago it

It was all built different. So how do you get rid of it now? You can't. You right. But we've got to have some sort meet us halfway phone making companies that if you want it to not destroy your life, that should also be an option. You should be allowed to live in a society without having a technology that's making you a worse person that everybody knows that. But for them, the more you are on your phone, the better it is for them.

So that's the real issue. Yes. I'm open to the government stepping in. Having a special government phone. Maybe not. Zoromamdadi for phones. Yeah. I don't hate him. Why not? He's charismatic. It's a terrible reason. Isn't it? Yeah. I mean Hitler was charismatic, James. It's a problem that I have. That I love charismatic people. Even when they I don't think Bill Cosby did it. How could he? America's dad. I don't want to believe. You don't want to believe? He did it.

But it hurts to believe. You don't want to you know Jimmy Savile. People didn't want to believe that about Jimmy Savile. Raised millions of spinal charities. Uh Gary Glitter, who I think is still at large doing terrible things, but what a songwriter. They still play his music during the Super Bowl. It's a great song. Yeah. Ringo's the school bill?

Do you you remember in Joker, the original? I never watched it. Rock and Roll Part Two When he was dancing down the steps. Yeah. And it's an iconic it's an iconic scene in modern cinematic history. Finally we've reached the subject of pedophilia. Francis is in his element.

Who's being a they keep accusing do you think all right, the Charlie Kirk assassination did get people to stop talking about that letter that Trump wrote to Epstein with the drawing on it. The drawing is unsettling. The boobs are not big enough. Did you feel? Did I feel the boobs? When you know when you saw the picture of the boobs, did you think that's a question?

That wasn't the first thing. No. No. Well if they were huge boobs, he would be vindicated as just being a man who loved the women. But the boobs are very small on the drawing. Which tells us He liked an a child's physique. What was going on on the island. They were buddies, they were hanging out. I was hurt when the boobs were too small in the drawing. You guys didn't get upset by that? I'd just like to remind everybody James is a comedian.

It's not alleging that the President of the United States is in fact the Peter Phot. People keep alleging it. I mean I'm not alleging it. I'm not alleging it. Elon tried to walk it back a little bit. He did? It's not the sort of thing you can walk back very easily. No. No, it it isn't. I would like an explanation for the small booth. If we ever interview President Trump, we'll be sure to ask him.

Make him bigger. Dissuade the notion that hey he doesn't seem like a pedophile to me, he doesn't act like that pedophile. But the size of boobs is not necessarily correlated with the That's the sort of thing he should say.

Like w I remember when I was at school, I'm not gonna say her name'cause it's kind of embarrassing, but that I was fourteen, there was a fourteen year old girl in my school who had absolutely giant tits. Yes. Right? That's not proof of anything. But that's what the far left would be saying if the drawing had big boobs, if the birthday card was booby.

But since it was not booby, we have to accept that there is a symbolism to a small boob, separate from the real world. There is a visual language of a small boob. I think I'm four for four. No you're not. You're not. You're not. Enoch Powell wasn't gay. Yes. The Church of the Henry VIII was the supreme leader of the church or whatever, the Ayatollah of the Church of England. I said he was. Yes, in the Church in England, yes. No, the Church of England. Let's look up how deep that break went.

And what happened under Elizabeth and whether or not there was a shift under her. Right. And then this whole thing with the small boobs. They were small. Okay, I'm not denying their size. I'm not I'm just saying that's not evidence of Peter Phillips. I'm saying that if I was writing a birthday card. Well maybe you like big boobs, maybe you like small boobs. There is there is look, some men's not pretend that's not an open political question at this point. And a difficult one.

That the Trump administration was in real trouble before that assassination. I'm not saying anything out of sorts. The r every every comment on all the Trump pictures on Instagram was released the Epstein files. That's gone quiet now. After the small boat. कर दो कर दो कर दो कर दो कर दो I just want answers. I'm just asking questions. Okay, Candace. It's been great having you on the show. I will need to s if Candace Owens is vindicated. About what?

Bridget Macron being a fella. Yeah. Which she probably won. No. But if she is, she's got to get the Pulitzer Prize. Her career can now only go one of two ways, as it has to either end or she's celebrated as the greatest journalist of modern times. Isn't that an exciting Historical moment to find ourselves in? It is. No. You don't want Candace Owens to be vi No. It's it's the most mental thing I've ever heard. Probably.

What do you mean probably? Almost certainly. This is what happens when you spend too much time in America. This is what this is what everyone in America is like. Like, look, I know that this is probably true, but what if this it's the end what if the aliens thrown a Hail Mary?

Yeah. And if that it's and it's a wild heymary. There's nobody at the other end of the field, James. That's what the testing will establish, whether or not there's someone at the other end of the field. She's had two kids. So they say. What you mean? I'm just saying I like the narrative, I like the charisma, I like the story. Let's find out. Let's keep an open mind. Mike. I thought this was an open minded podcast. I thought this was a podcast where po it's in the buyer.

Isn't that the point? We're exploring dangerous ideas. Candace Owens is exploring a dangerous idea. Maybe a mistaken idea. But don't we love that she gets the freedom to explore the fruit? Sounds like people hate freedom on this podcast. I'm just saying let's find out. I'm not saying one thing or the other. I think I'm in the clear. I don't think I've said anything that will get me in trouble. I think what you said about Enoch was positively b blasphemous.

I don't consider him to be a saint, unlike some people on this podcast. I just think we should all look more closely. At the difficult historical question. James? Yeah. What's the one thing that we're not talking about? I hesitate to collapse that we really should be. Collapse of the Church of England. I think that's really fundamental. You're gonna be a Catholic country again, and while I celebrate that

Uh, I think it's weird and I think it's odd that no one's talking about the total collapse of the Church of England. The pews are empty. doctrinal fractures ripping through the whatever they call that conference. The pews aren't empty. I go to a a church in uh in London, which is uh a um Church of England church. I'm glad they've got one. That's anecdotal. You were against me using anecdotal evidence before. I think if we look at the census numbers it's not strong. Yeah, it's true.

Um and it was all done in the hope that they could connect with the youth and it didn't happen. The youth turned away and the you know, the baby boomers got to feel hip with the guitar music and the lady up there. You know this is a huge I just don't know why no one's talking about the collapse of the Church of England. Because it is statistically happening. Catholics are holding on. They're losing South America. People should talk about that. The evangelical thing in South America.

I see no one really reflecting on that in a meaningful way. It but it suits the South American temperament. How? Because they're histrionic emotional people. There is no stereotypically The Catholics in South America? Oh no, I'm so many statues covered with blood, weeping, special medals. Oh yeah, they love all that. Yeah. Yeah, my my family love all that. But it's that prosperity gospel that's yeah getting underway there that spooked.

Alright. England will be Catholic. Thank you, James. Not by any choice of the government. It just seems to be happening. You killed so many people to get rid of the Catholics and they're back and you're not even angry about it? I think that's a big one. I'm also thrilled about it, but I think you guys should be stained. It's been great being on the podcast.

We love freedom. Do you? Yeah. Do ya? Hmm. With that, head over to trakepod.co.uk where James is gonna answer your questions in exactly the same way he's answered ours. Did the podcast political comedian kill the stand up comedian? What do you think of Joe Rogan as well? I don't say this lightly. Last summer, Constantine and I spent a week with Ralston College students and professors in Greece.

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