An Honest Conversation With Tommy Robinson

I've gone from being spat at, to being punched, to being hugged, to being embraced, to have my hands shaken. And that process is now where the country's at. My cousin, when she was 14, my cousin was 14, she woke up naked in a house in Berry Park.

by loads of bearded men. Remember, 7-7 bomb plot, they picked up their bombs in Luton. A fertiliser bomb plot, come out of Luton. Stockholm bomber, come out of Luton. Luton was named by the CIA as the epicentre of terrorist atrocities and the planning for Europe. And that's why I kept asking people, what would you do? Tommy, when you look back at some of your behaviour, do you think that it's tarnished your message? I had no option.

Do you think I want to be out fighting? Well, I do though, Tommy. You're a football hooligan, right? No, I'm 42 years old. Do you see what I'm saying? In the Quran, 7% of Mein Kampf is Jew hatred. 7%. 11% of that book. My camp is banned. This isn't banned. This is taught across the whole country. If they want to implement real hate speech laws, this would be banned. Relax, relax. This is not an ad. I just wanted to let you know that you can watch this video without any advertising at all.

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Tommy, been a long time coming, mate. Thank you for being here. It's all right. We've got a long conversation ahead of us. Lots to talk about recently. You just said before we started, it's been the worst week of your life. Just so people know, we were supposed to interview...

last week, the more I'm getting ready in the evening thinking about how we're going to do this interview, because it's in the morning the next day, and then there's a video of you standing next to a guy that's clearly just been knocked out. I'm going. He's probably not going to turn up tomorrow.

didn't turn up. Here you are. Before we get into all that, though, the one thing that I think is really important is for us just to understand for our audience and for ourselves, what's your story and who you are and how you got here? right and i think that's a really big part of it that gets missed very often. People kind of have an idea about you, as I once did, by the way, I will say this, right? But they do not have the full picture. So let's talk about that. Tell us how, why you were here.

So that idea, I remember 2015 was the first chance I got to give a presentation of my life. And it was at Oxford University. I walked into Oxford University. Everyone hated me. i was getting booed shouted out screamed that you know when you go oxford university debating society you get a three-course meal i didn't get any of that yeah i just got invited in

But by the end of the presentation, I've got a standing ovation. And all the people there said, I didn't know any of this. And I brought them back every time to growing up in Luton. And I remember saying to the audience, I don't know where you grew up.

But please picture yourself. I'm going to tell you my story, what I saw growing up, what happened to my family members, all the changes I saw, and then ask yourself what you would have done. Keep asking yourself, what would you do if you saw this? So, yeah, I was born in 1982 in Luton Town.

My mum was an Irish immigrant, Tulum. She's one of eight from a poor family. And I grew up in a town that is one of the most diverse and multicultural towns in Europe, actually, in Europe. So I saw firsthand... what it's like to grow up in a multicultural community, but also what it's like in a town that, when I was born, had one mosque in 1982 and now has 45. So we're nearly a 50% Pakistani population of Muslims.

And I saw the problems from that. And I spoke about them. And I guess when people say I'm guilty of things, I'd say, yeah, I'm guilty of being a decade ahead. But that's not because I had some golden light bulb or could see into the future. I just saw... my hometown i saw from growing up as a child to what had happened and when i grew up and again i'll start off so if you line all my friends up and you get 30 of us the majority of us are sons of immigrants

whether it be St. Lucian, Bulgarian, Italian, Irish, all of us are sons of immigrants. I went to school. Some of the best people I met growing up, some of the people I love from growing up are Muslim. But that doesn't change that there's a massive problem. So talk to us about that, Tommy. You mentioned...

Look, I imagine most people listening to this can imagine what happens when a place goes from being... mostly one group of people to mostly another group of people right and we have friends we have a close friend of ours who grew up in bradford right and he talks about what he experienced as a white guy in a mostly pakistani school

Right. Most people don't think about that. So when you talk about problems, right, what do you mean? Like, give us an example. So I mean that going to school, and I noticed it when I got to high school, or even just, I talk about when I was, we used to have an under 18s nightclub, and when people talk about racism. and victim of racism. So I've been a victim of racism untold times. I remember going as a young group of lads going to an under-19s nightclub where we had to walk through the town.

We'd get robbed. We'd get spat. In the end, we had to hide our money in our socks because every time you went, you got robbed and mucked by Pakistani gangs. You'd get called a dirty ghoulah. Little white boy, slapped around. So when people talk about racism, I think, I've experienced it my whole life. I've seen it my whole life. I've seen, and when we're at school, so if you come into our high school, well, I went to a high school called Puttridge High School, which...

was still a majority non-Muslim school, but then they bussed children from the Muslim community up on buses into the school. Now, when you went into our school, and there's never been a racial tension in Lumen. Never seen it. Never seen racism.

The town is divided by religious lines. That's it. It's white and blacks like this growing up. And it always was, especially in Luton's football scene, which we can get onto. All of our groups and lads, we're a very diverse bunch of lads. Always have been. Luton's. Football hooligan element was always seen. The actual racist clubs from the 70s and 80s would always...

have a big day out in Luton because Luton's lads that would be resisting them were always white and black because that's what Luton has always been. But there was never really racial tensions. At school, and we didn't create this, Muslim playground, that was the front playground, non-Muslim playground at the back. So even in the playground, it was divided. When you walk into the school dinner hall, so go into the school dinner hall, and when you walk in, you'd have everyone sitting in the mix.

Chinese, Indians, blacks, everyone sitting at tables together. In the corner, there'll be 10 tables of Muslims. That's just how it was. And the playground, is that the school mandating that or is it just how the kids saw themselves out? That's just how it divided. Right. That's just how it divided. And if one Muslim got in any fight, a hundred of them got in a fight. So something very different. I've never seen that until I got to high school.

And then I got to high school and see 10 or 20 men booting one kid. And I'd never seen that because people had a fight before. and they just had a fight. Now, literally, and then when you get outside the school gates afterwards, say when we were 13, 14, and we had some trouble with some Pakistani kids at school, and trouble's going on, when you come outside school, there'll be 30 men. Men.

There's no 30 black men or white men coming up to school. They're all at work. But there's 30 Pakistani men waiting outside school to confront the 12, 13, 14-year-old kids. So I saw that also at school. I very quickly saw. Young girls that were at our school, we viewed them at the time as children. I'll be honest, we used to view them as slags.

at that time, because the girls who were 13 were getting picked up by Pakistani men outside. They'd come up to school gates and literally pick the girls up in school uniforms, and the girls would be going out and giving blowjobs to taxi drivers, and we'd all know what's going on, but we never viewed them as victims at that time as children. We were children and they were going out. Basically, they were victims of this grooming gang. My cousin, when she was 14, my cousin was 14. She woke up.

naked in a house in Berry Park, being raped by loads of bearded men. She'd run out on the streets and the prostitutes rang her dad. The street prostitutes rang her dad. She was just a child. Sorry to interrupt, Tommy. When was this? This was when I was 13 years old. So that would have been 96 or 95? 96, 95. And a lot, I do this at Oxford University, a lot happened in my life at that time.

which whatever happens in your life shapes your worldview, shapes your view. You understand. Even there was a murder of a gentleman called Mark Sharp. Google this murder. Mark Sharp was with his son. His son was my age, probably when I was 11, 12. His son was my age. He was friends with my uncle's. And he's drove past and he's had a bit of a road rage with a car full of Pakistanis. And he's called them a wanker as he's gone past. They've followed him. They've called for reinforcements.

More cars have turned up. As he's got out with his 12-year-old son to get a takeaway, they've jumped out, they've beaten with bats, beaten with poles. There was an explosion of violence in Lulon that we didn't understand at the time. coming from the Muslim community. When we go back and speak to the elders in our community, it seemed to have been stemming from the Gulf invasion.

after the goal something was happening in Luton which none of us knew about yeah and it's only later as we as I get in in my life which I'll get to that I started to understand Oh, this is what's made it. This is what this is. Because there was always something different, which I didn't put down to the Muslim community, because at the time it wasn't about them being Muslims, it was just the Pakistanis are very different.

That's how I saw it. But Mark Sharp, they snapped a knife off in his head and killed him. He survived for three, four days in hospital. I remember his family left the town. The Pakistanis all went on the run. They got them back in the end from Pakistan. I think they got four years.

It's not justice. They've got four years for a brutal murder where six to eight of them jumped all over him, snapped knives off his head in front of his son. So I remember seeing all these things. And then my cousin, when she was being prostituted in the end, the police just say she's a drug addict.

Because she was. She was on heroin, because they got her hooked on heroin. Now, and I remember even when I got a chance on Jeremy Paxman years later, and I remember saying to Jeremy Paxman, when I went on in 2010, and it's now, it hasn't aged well for him.

And when I went on the chat show, I said, they're picking our daughters up from schools. They're picking our sisters up from schools. The gangs are operating so different. They're not challenged. And he was like, really? You expect us to believe this?

I remember saying, Jeremy, do you know anyone who's hooked on heroin sold to them by a Muslim gang? You don't. I do. Do you know anyone who's been killed by a Muslim gang? You don't. I do. Do you know any girls that now wear full niqabs that aren't allowed to see their family? You don't, do you? I do. Do you know anyone who's been prostituted and groomed and raped? You don't, do you? I do.

I said, so I don't expect you to understand, but I do expect you to listen, because this is happening in town. The reason why the English Defence League has gone bang is because what I've seen is what is mirrored across every working class community in this country. If Islam was to evolve, which it needs to evolve...

to fit in with Western democracy, which is clearly not. Clearly there's a problem. Clearly the English Defence League is a phenomenon that swept this country. And with the issues I'm talking about, Jeremy, if I ask you, do you know anyone that's hooked on heroin sold to them by Muslim gangs? You probably don't.

I do. Do you know any beautiful girls that you went to school with that are now wearing a burqa that don't see their family? Probably don't. I do. Do you know anyone who's been murdered by a Muslim gang? Probably don't. I do. Do you know any 15 year old girls that you know that you've grown up with that have been raped or pimped? You don't. So I don't expect you to understand.

These are all personal issues of yours? Personal issues in towns and cities, like mine, that are happening, and they're not happening with the seat community.

They're not happening with the Jewish community. And indeed, they're not happening with most Muslims. No, they're happening within the Islamic community. That's why I'm saying that it's an Islamic problem. And I'm just a simple person, so I'm just a normal person. But when I'm looking at it, I have to look for where this hatred is coming from.

Are you seriously suggesting there aren't white drug dealers and there aren't white gangs? Of course I'm not, no. Or Sikh gangs or any other kind of... No, I'm not, but I'm saying some of these specific issues are coming from the Islamic community, solely the Islamic community. Terrorists wanting to blow us up. constant hostile activity towards our youth. All these problems and from sitting back there's got to be something it's coming from. None of the other communities are spreading it so...

We're a symptom of the problem. The English Defence League... You're claiming that community is spreading it. Actually, what we're talking about here... Yes, exactly, as you could talk about members of the white community doing all sorts of atrocious things. Not 24-year-old groups of 10 of them hanging around outside school gates. You've never seen a white gang? And purposely targeting... Never seen a white gang? Are we going to pretend...

that Muslim groups are not out there purposely targeting our youth and pimping them? Are we going to pretend it's not happening? You're not pretending white people aren't doing that? Not in the same manner, not in the same group. They're saying it's a cultural thing which is going on within their community.

But that was, so I grew up in Luton, I've seen all these problems, and again, I'm going to reiterate again, that doesn't mean, because some of the best lads I know were Muslim lads, yeah, at school. But when there's a divide, and I'll explain the story again, when there's a divide...

Something very different happens with this. I remember coming out of a nightclub in Luton, and I remember seeing about six Muslims beating one man. And it was my ex-wife who said, stop them, stop them. And I remember going in to pull them off him, and then they attack you.

And then, as it's all going on, a Muslim friend of mine stood on their side against us. And he didn't even know him. And afterwards, I spoke to him. And the whole town's going on. There's all this chaos going on. It's us and them. The divide, you can think, your friends, it's us and them. When that divide line comes, it's us and them. And that divide, which I never understood again, I'll tell you the moment I understood it, but all this is going on.

I'm seeing lots of changes in the town, seeing a level of aggression, a level of hate, rapes, criminality. Fast forward to 2000 and to when I'm 19, I think I'm doing my apprenticeship. I left school. I left school at 16. I got an apprenticeship as an aeronautical engineer at Britannia Airways. I went to work there. And I saw, do you remember the Beslem School Massacre? Yeah. In Russia. In Russia. That was my...

For people who don't know, Chechen terrorists took over a school. They held it, I think, for one or two days. And then the Russian special forces went in and it was a bloodbath. And for people who don't know, that's coming to the UK. I think that's... So this happens. So Chechen terrorists take over to school, and I can still see it, yeah? Because, and this was my real, you know, everyone's had that moment that wakes them up. Everyone's had that moment that...

I think a lot of people would wish they could just close their eyes to it. I think once you're awake to this and you understand some of the problems, you can't turn off from it. But they take over a school, not one Muslim, not two, a whole massive gang of them, yeah, jihadists.

take over a school, the parents then get phone calls, so they know their children are in the school, they know terrorists have got their kids, the parents come to the school gates, the military are there, the Russian army are there, and the parents are outside, and the women are dropping on their knees, holding their heads.

as then you start hearing the Muslims butchering their kids and they're killing them and butchering them. And I remember watching it going, what the hell is this? What the hell is going on here? That was my moment to start looking at Islam. And two weeks after this, I saw a group in Luton called al-Majreddin. The leader, the second in command of that group was a gentleman called Saif al-Islam, which translates as Sword of Islam. He's in a chicken shop in Luton and he's doing an interview.

And in that interview, he says a attack like Beslam would be justified on a British school. And this is when I'm probably, I don't know, I might have been 19. Might have been 19, I can't remember. I was young.

And I'll be honest, and from my background growing up in Luton, as I said, Luton is a, so people understand the town, it's probably one of the most poverty-stricken towns in the country. It's a rough and violent town. It has a lot of problems. Take Islam out of the equation, it's still got a million problems, yeah? And growing up there, I'd say chisels who you become. But I grew up and I looked up to my uncle's rule.

lead members of Luton's football hooligan scene. So whilst I went to school, stayed out of trouble, I was always in the group that was getting in trouble, the likely lads, but I never got involved in any criminality, whereas a lot of the kids I grew up with did.

My mum, probably because of my mum and her parenting, my mum was strict, but I left, done my apprenticeship. But when I saw this, I was a young lad full of testosterone and I used to go to the football element with Luton Town football scene. And when I watched this...

Muslims say this, I thought, who's this man? And then I looked at him and I understood Al-Majreddin. Now remember, there wasn't a terrorist attack in the UK until what, 2007 was it? So there hadn't been a terrorist attack. There hadn't been...

No one understood jihad. Yeah. I look at this group, Al-Mashradeen, who are now a prescribed terrorist organisation, but at the time they weren't. And I look and they're holding weekly events in our town centre outside Don Miller's bakery, outside the local bakery. So I looked at them and I looked and they were a global caliphate network and their head office was on Biscuit Road, which is where we're from. And it's like...

Who the hell are these like? And in my presentation at Oxford University, I showed, so after September 11th, like when you went to your local shops, I don't know what it was like, but at my local shops, there was pictures of the 19 suicide bombers with Magnificent 19.

It was celebrated in Luton. It was celebrated at a local college. They held a march for the anniversary of the first year through the town centre. So it was celebrated. September 11th was celebrated. Openly. It was openly celebrating the terrorist attack. Look at my presentation at Oxford University.

I show the posters at my shop and all over the phone boxes, all over the shops, Magnificent on in. It was celebrated. And so I looked at this group and I went down the town centre the next Saturday. And I'll be honest, because on a Saturday...

Back then, as a young man, there might be a hundred of us on a Saturday that would go to Luton Football. And we'd travel around the country going to football together as young men. And I looked at this group, and when I went down there, there was a police officer there.

And I said, and they were openly like, now they try and hide it. They were openly recruiting to send people to fight against our armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. They were openly promoting jihad. It was like, remember, this is at a time when Abu Hamza, hook.

Yeah. When he was holding his seminars in Finsbury Park, when he had hundreds of men on the floor in the road calling for war against Britain. Remember, they weren't getting nicked on hate speech or anything like that. They were just allowed to do it. So as I looked at this group...

I thought, they've been operating, a mass network have been operating for 20 years in my town. Which then explains, and I tried, I tried having this, I sat down with Bim Arms when we started the English Defence League and explained to him, your community, the Islamic community, It's very entrenched. It's inward looking. You're all here. Now, within this little community, you've got, let's just say 200. We've got more. Let's say 200 pure radicals.

who are working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and they're working to promote jihad, supremacy, intolerance against the non-Muslim community. So once they're operating all these years, the explosions of violence...

that are coming out, and they weren't just coming out onto us in the streets. Remember, 7-7 bomb plot, they picked up their bombs in Luton. Fertiliser bomb plot, come out of Luton. Stockholm bomber, come out of Luton. Luton was named by the CIA as the epicentre of terrorist atrocities.

and the planning for Europe. That's Lumen. So when people are saying, I said, well, you know these lads, like the ones who were killed fighting for ISIS, the ones who, Saifel Islam, who's done jail for terrorism, Roger Ibrahim, the ginger convert. I used to hang around with him as a kid.

So we're not talking about, when you read about terrorists, to some people this is a million miles away, I went to school with that mug. I queue up next to him in the bank. His sister lives around the corner from me. So this isn't a million miles away from us. So when in 2004, I went down town centre, police were there. I said, what is this? How are they allowed to do this? She said it's free speech. I said, OK, let's see if it's free speech next week.

And then the next week I organised my first ever protest, which was called Ban the Looting Taliban. That's what I called it. Tommy, can we pause there for one second? Because one thing that I wanted to ask you about, and honestly, I'm not coming at it from a place of judgment, but I do think it's an important part of the conversation. You mentioned the football hooligans, right, which you were part of. A lot of people...

It's a very, it's not a uniquely British thing now that you get these ultras in Italy, you get them in Russia. Yeah. But it is kind of... To most people who don't know about it, they really don't know about it, right? So can you explain the firms and the hooligans? Because you say you go around the country supporting Luden, but it's more than that, right? It's more than that. It's young lads who like to get...

to a football game and have a fight with others, right? Is that fair? That's fair. If you're someone who values free inquiry and independent thinking, which let's be honest, is why you're probably watching Trigonometry, then our sponsor, Venice AI, is the tool for you. Here's a hot take. AI is exploding right now. But seriously, most of the tools out there are just clones with slightly different skins. Venice AI is different. It offers uncensored AI chat, images, and coding.

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You'll find the link in the description of this episode or type it in v-e-n-i-c-e dot a-i slash trigonometry and see what you've been missing. And now, back to the show. Right now at the Home Depot, you'll find storage solutions made to fit your needs. Grab an HDX Tough Tilt to protect your tools. Or keep your sports equipment contained with reinforced SnapFit lids.

or stack up and make better use of your space with bins and totes built to last. Whatever your story, we've got the gear to keep it organized and protected at The Home Depot. How doers get more done. That's fair, which is going to sound moronic. To most people watching this, they're going to think, idiots. Absolutely idiots. But remember, I'm 42 years old now, and I'm a father of three. I was 20. I was 18, 17, 16. Young men.

Young men finding their identity together, which I'd say I found my identity going to football. I found it. And when I say I found it, I look at the problem in Lulon and I look at the erosion of our identity as young English men. It's gone. And I'll give an example. When it's St. Patrick's Day in Lune, there's a three-day festival for St. Patrick's Day. When it's St. Lucian Day, we have a massive, tense...

Park, fairgrounds, everything, yeah? When it's Eid, the whole place is locked off, everything. They've got fairs, they've got everything. When it's St George's Day, it's banned. Yeah? So... We're made to feel ashamed anyway. I remember it was St George's Day and the local, the school, Icknield High School. Now, do you remember the Trojan horse plot? Where the Muslims have infiltrated the schools and got on the boards.

No. So what's his name? Michael Gove was leading on it. He'd done very well trying to expose it. So the Trojan Oral's plot. So the best headteacher in the school in Nick Neild, he come out and the girl come in wearing the full niqab and he sent her home.

and Sherry Blair represented her. They sued the school, yeah? And when they sued the school, Anne was redeemed, because that girl was, which Sherry Blair represented her, but that girl was the sister of one of the main terrorists in Luton, one of the main extremists in Luton, yeah? So then they protest outside school gates.

And they put pressure on the school. And in the end, Mr. Kelly, I think his name was, who was a great headteacher, the best at that school, they ousted him. He had to go because he stood up against a niqab in the school. It's insane.

This was going on. That same school then, a few years later, when it's St George's Day, they told all the... We've just seen the recent thing with the British Culture Day where the girl got sent home in the Union dress. Did you see this? Yes. That's nothing new, right? So...

Young children in a school in Luton, they sent out letters saying, if anyone brings in the emblem of St George, on St George's Day, you'll be sent home. So kids, our parents sent them with just a little pin badge with St George's flag on it. You're going home. Because my mate's kids were at school at all times. So I rang the school. When Pakistan won the cricket, they had a massive celebration in the school. Pakistani flags everywhere. It's our national day.

What message are you sending to the children? Now, and all this, the reason why I'm explaining this, because it plays a part, I guess, into us as young men feeling like we don't have an identity in the town. Now, on a Saturday, we'd come together. from that estate, that estate, that estate, that estate, as young English lads, and we'd go to Luton together and form a brotherhood.

where we travel the country. And yeah, I think I'm quite tribal. I think we are, as men and humans, we're tribal. If you go to certain places in the Amazon now, I bet one tribe fights the other tribe. For no reason at all, just they fight.

That's what it was like growing up in Luton. Our school would fight that school every week. There'd be fights. Our town, and I guess that developed onto our town, would fight that town. Our football club would fight that football club. Now, so people understand, because it does sound moronic.

Speaking about it now, lads go to football and even if they're not fighting, it's giving them a sense of identity. It's a culture. They're having a good day out. And when men are going to football and fighting, they're not pulling out knives. They're not...

You'll get 20 lads, 20 lads in a back street and they're turning up and having a punch up with each other. Again, I get it. If you're watching it, you think it sounds moronic. But unfortunately, in a town like Luton, that was plagued by Islamic gangs taking over everything. All these migrant gangs taking over everything. Well, on a Saturday, there's 100 English lads. On a Saturday, yeah? So I used that 100 English lads in 2004 to tell this group, Al-Madridine...

You're not in the town anymore, lads. Yeah. So and we turned up and it was called Ban the Luton Taliban. Now, I made leaflets. at that time. And I actually went, so before I've done my Oxford Union present... Tommy, can I just stop you there? Just to make it clear for people, when you say English lads, it's not white lads, it's white and black lads. No, white and black. Yeah, I don't see... Because people could see... People think, no, I don't see colour. White, black and Asian lads.

Yeah, yeah. We've got Sikh lads in the group. So I don't see colour anyway. And I've never, sometimes journalists have said that when they've come here and said, bloody hell, there's a lot. I don't see that. I've just grown up in that. White English or minority in New England. I've just grown up with that.

I'm not bothered. But then, so we'd all come together and we'd done this demonstration and I went, when I was doing the Oxford Union presentation, I went into the library and I went back through all the old newspapers because, stupidly... I stood barefaced with this leaflet. I made leaflets. I went around the whole town and basically said on Saturday, we're coming out against this lot, yeah? Now in the leaflets, my rhetoric has never changed. We're sitting here now.

The country's, I think, shifted, totally shifted. And my rhetoric's the same as it was in 2004. So my first demonstration, which I dug the... leaflet. They basically put the leaflet that I made on the front page of the newspaper. So I went into the library, got it to show people at Oxford University. Here's what I said in 2004. Now in 2004, what I said, whites and blacks.

are being racially and religiously targeted in this town. They're being attacked violently. The Pakistani gangs, and I named the gang, they're called the Gambinos. Very original lads for Pakistanis.

But there are gangs called Gambinos, and there are 100-strong Pakistani mob from the Muslim community who use heroin. And what I said is they're using heroin as a weapon against us, because they are. They're coming into our states with heroin, and they're destroying the states. And in fact, back in...

When I was a few years younger, there were little riots in an estate in Lulun. And Muslims come from all over the country for these riots. But it was one estate fighting against them. And that started because they brought the heroin in the estate. They damaged families and people tried to resist it.

But the police crushed the English lads, basically, at that time. But as this is going on, so the leaflet said, whites and blacks being religiously and racially targeted. So I named the Gambinos in 2004, and I say that they use heroin. to prostitute our youth, to then use them in paedophilic gangs. That's grooming. That's now labelled as grooming. This was 2004. And I said, if we know the shops are doing it.

And we know which men are doing it. And we know which businesses are doing it because they all use the businesses. You know, this is now common practice. We know which tax... It's taxi ranks. It's takeaways. But we've known that the whole time growing up. We're looking at it thinking, well, look what they're doing. Nothing's happening. You don't crush them. You crush us all the time. So at that time, I made the leaflet and I stood up and about, I don't know, probably 200 lads turned up.

200 young lads turned up that day, and they weren't there. The extremist mob didn't turn up that day. I thought, it's worked. It's worked. They're not here. But then it didn't work, because I'd done it barefaced, as Stephen... Yaxley, Lennon, yeah. I stood up and I'd done it. I read out the leaflet on the town hall. And boy, I was expecting, I don't know what I was expecting, but the fallout from that, probably because I probably brought a lot of heat on the gangs because I named them, yeah.

And this was 2004, and I'll show it Oxford University presentation. Fast forward 2007, the Daily Mirror run a national story on chemical jihad, and they named the gang in Luton who are working with the extremist terrorist groups, funding them.

So they're working hand in hand. The street gangs work with terrorists, which is why when I come out against this, all the young little Pakistani mobs, I was the target after this. I was the target. And if I wanted to go out in the town for the next few years, I had to go out in 20 lads.

So I learned very quickly, but I also had a lesson growing up in my life with the Pakistani community, or the Muslim community, if you show them any weakness, they're going to run all over you. So if you show them any fear, they're going to run all over you.

There's only one language I understand. There's only one thing they respect. They respect. And it's strength. Not cowardice. Not appeasement. They actually respect. I have Muslims now shake my hand in the town who don't like me. I don't like you, Tommy. I respect you. You stand on your values. So this is 2004. I organised this protest in my name and the fallout from it.

comes at me big. They smashed my mum's house up. I was targeted by them. We had, just being honest, as young football lads, we had clashes with their gangs then after that for years. For years, yeah? But it got to a sort of truth's point after a few years. because there was clashes either side. It got to a truce point and I knew some of their gangs because I went to school or something. But it's like, no, you're not, you're not, you're absolutely taking the piss. And I'd seen so much.

And I'm only giving you a little two seconds of growing up in Luton, of what I've seen, all the problems and the wrongdoings. And in Oxford University, I showed there were 68 attacks against non-Muslim houses. in the area of Bury Park. If you watch the presentation, you'll see. Now, the Howards were 88 years old, an old white couple. They don't repair their windows anymore. They stopped repairing their windows because they just get smashed again. Palmer.

who's, rest in peace, because I know the lady died recently, but I know her son. Her son's one of the most respected black men in London, yeah? Now, and I grew up looking up to the man, yeah? Now, he, at that time, his mum's house had been attacked, and the police done nothing.

And the reason they're getting attacked is because members of the Muslim community wanted them out because there were non-Muslims living in the Muslim community. Now, there's actually national news stories on this back then. And when we went to football...

Our football hooligan liaison officer, because every football club has an officer whose job it is to understand the hooligans, know who they are, get intelligence. He pulled us aside and said, I'm just going to tell you honestly, you need 200 men down there. He goes, they're not going to listen to you. You need 200 men.

That's our police telling us nothing's going to happen here, yeah, unless you get men together. And there was a game against Watchdale. This was going back then as all these attacks were going on. And about two, three hundred looting lads come out. And there was a bit of trouble that day. But it was in response to the attacks, the continued attacks. Then the police launched investigations. Then the police started dealing with it. Only then.

Because they don't otherwise. So this has gone on 2004, first demonstration. 2009, in between this period, I was an aircraft engineer. I'm then now, by 2009, I'm running a successful... plumbing business I've got a sunbed shop in the town centre and between me and my wife I've got seven properties and I'm doing well and I had done what everyone else is trying to do my passion was making money

I had enough money, get out of Luton, like everyone else does. Get out, run, get into a village, get into a nice area, set up my family. I had my first child. And then my first child, 2008, and then the soldiers' homecoming parade in Luton.

It's a Tuesday morning. Soldiers are giving them the freedom of the city. And again, to make it personal, because it is personal. As Lutonians, it's personal, because it's our town. Every time you hear our town's name, it's due to terrorism. We're fed up with that. Every time our town is...

Every football away fan sing about our town being full of terrorists. Everything's about terrorism. And then they attacked our soldiers. And in that regiment, which was the Royal Anglians, Scott Montridge was 26 and he died. He's from our estate. Michael Swain was 19 and lost his legs. And when they've done that, they're then attacked by the same group, Al-Majreddin, that we've already been confronting for years. They're attacked by them. So 2009 comes...

And when they're attacked, just to understand, I remember, and bear in mind at this point, I know who this group are. These are jihadists. These are the Nazis of the millennium. That's who they are.

and they're free to do what they want. No one's stopping them. Council aren't stopping them. Police aren't stopping them. In fact, they're letting them. And that day, I stood in the town, it was Tuesday morning, stood there with my cousin, got down to town hall to show respect for the armed forces, and saw police everywhere. Too many police.

What's going on? Saw 30 niqabs all together. Then started spotting the main Muslim radical lads, Saifel Islam, Roger, Ibrahim. Started looking and thinking, right, what's going on? And then the police took them through the town hall. They opened up the doors of the town hall.

And they took a group of 20 of them and walked them through the town hall. So I'm watching it thinking, what's going on? They walked them through the town hall. So as the soldiers marched down here, which is the back of the town hall, they put the Muslim protesters this far.

from the soldiers and let them attack them. They spat in one of the lads' mum's faces, soldiers' mum's faces. They shouted, butchers of Basra are baby killers. They shouted all this stuff and done this protest. And there was probably 20 of them there, 60 of them down here.

by the town, by Don Miller's bakery, because that was their little meeting, which was where they always are. 60 of them there, but the police actually stopped, because some of our lads got arrested on that day. The police actually stopped 330 of them coming into Luton, off the motorway. So imagine there was 500 of them.

Imagine the damage they would have done that day. But this story went worldwide about looting. And it was that day. And bearing in mind, I'm getting on my life by this point. I'm doing all right. And I remember speaking to my cousin and speaking to some lads after that and said, we can't let them do this.

Like, they can't get away with this. Because if they do, what's next? And we've seen the progression. That same group that attacked the soldiers is the same group that burnt poppies on Armatist Day. is the same group that Michael Adobalajos was part of that went from attacking the soldiers... One of the Lee Rigby killers, right? Attacking the soldiers on the street, burning poppies, beheading the soldiers. I made a video about Lee Rigby's killer two years before he done that.

We showed him in a video. Here he is in Harrow. And then so in 2009, this happens. We know who they are. And we said, no, enough's enough on this issue. Enough is enough. And do you know what we've done? And that's why I kept asking people, what would you do? This is your town. Anyone watching this? You live in this town. You've seen all these problems. There's a total two-tier policing. Now, two-tier policing is part of national vocabulary.

But it wasn't. But it was for us. We've always seen it. So, do you know what I've done? I organised a protest. But before we'd done any protest, I set up a petition, got three and a half thousand signatures, and I approached the council. And the petition said...

ASBO, antisocial behaviour orders, which is what they use. So in our estates, if two kids are continually causing trouble together, they'll give them an ASBO from being together. And then they'll give them a perimeter around the shop so they can't hang around. So that normal people can go to shop.

without loads of little hoodies causing mayhem. So what we ask for is implement these orders against this group so that when my mum or my auntie or any of our families go down to town centre, they're not being accosted. Recruited. Vulnerable men aren't being recruited. Because the Stockholm bomber was an innocent Iraqi Muslim who come to Newton University from Sweden. And on Freshers' Week, which is when these groups are active in the universities, he was recruited. And he was on his own.

And then he'd end up going and blowing himself up. This is a process of grooming, of radicalisation. So we'd done this petition and said, look, stop them, ban them. The council won't even meet with us. The council just ignored it. And when they ignored it, then I said, right, OK.

Why do you think they ignored it, Tommy? They're so scared. Do you know they've never said no? At this point, I'm looking at them, take them through a town hall, and think, you've never told them no. Like, if I say now, we're going to protest outside East London Mosque, what are the police going to say? No, you can't.

You can't come outside the mosque on a Friday afternoon because it's going to cause mayhem. Or you can't stand in front of our armed forces. If you want to protest those soldiers... who were peacemakers. They weren't at war with the War Angler and Regiment. They were training their armies. You want to protest that group, go to the government. Protest the council. Whatever you want to do. Spitting in their faces.

on their return home tour of duty. So we were angry, really angry. So I organised and I made leaflets again. And I said to my cousin, and it's only because there was two of us, because I never... We shook hands. Because you can't go into this one foot. We knew that. We can't do this half-eyed. We're either in it or we're not. And next is a soldier's funeral. I knew that. They've done this today. If they're allowed to carry on...

And then there was big tensions in Luton at that time. Big tensions. Like, there was problems going off against them and against us. And it was like, there was so much trouble going on. But, and then I remember, because there was a, I think... There was the Salafist mosque in the town, which is the old synagogue, yeah, which is where the Islam, which is where the Stockholm Mama went. So as I drove, when I was younger, my Muslim mates would say...

That's the problem. And as we're driving the car, that one there, the axe, that one there. I said, well, he said, that's the terrorist mosque. So we knew locally that's the terrorist mosque. But when all this blew up, the main leader of the terrorist mosque, Qadir Bhask was his name.

become a chair of the Luton in Harmony program. So they set up a program to try and counter our protests, called it Luton in Harmony, and brought the main terrorist and sat him around the table as one of the men calling for harmony. We organized, I organized my first protest.

over this issue. And we set up a group called the United People of Luton. And we turned up to protest that day. And it was bank holiday. There's two bank holidays in May. So we've done the first bank holiday on the Sunday. Now, we were angry, but... It was a community. It wasn't just football, lads, because this was an issue that everyone was upset about. So it was my aunties were there, families were there, kids were there. And I paid the cameraman £450.

to come and film everything. And the reason I've done this is because I understand two-tier policing. I've seen it my whole life. So I know what's coming. The minute we try and come out. So we've turned up. Cameraman's turned up with us. They stop us in the street, put their hands in our pockets, make us take our shoes off.

search us, what's your name? And as they're doing this, I said, you didn't do this to them. On that soldiers' Hong Kong parade, you did not do this to them. I know you didn't, because I watched it. Why didn't you put your cameras in their faces? Why didn't you ask them their names? You just walked them through.

Yeah. So why are you doing this to us now? We're coming out as a community and we're trying to get to the war memorial, which is at the other end of the town. And the police kettled us for three hours. They locked us in at the front, locked us in at the back. They come through on a horse, knocked out my mate's teeth, the police did. A little black lad called Isaac took his teeth out.

So they kettled. My auntie had to urinate in the street. I remember standing there as women were urinating the street thinking, well, Muslim women wouldn't have to urinate in the street. You would never dare. lock Muslims in a group like this. And I went back again to previous protests because I'd been following this group. They held an anti-Gaza protest, which is just a pro-Hamas protest. And in this protest, there's about thousands.

thousands coming out of the Muslim community. And it's led by this group. They're leading it. Safe of Islam, all the terrorists, they're at the front of it, yeah? They've organised it. And they're going, Khayouba, Khayouba, Khayouba. And I remember thinking, I wonder what that is. So I started looking at it.

And Kayuba was where Mohammed beheaded 600 Jews, raped the leader of the Jewish tribe's wife, married her that night. So I started, I'd gone through a process of understanding a lot of this stuff when most people weren't understanding it.

So I was becoming knowledgeable on it, thinking, OK, I know who they are. I know what that is. I know what's going on. So we held our protest, and the police just locked us in. And they locked us in, didn't let us get to the Warmore Rule. So I think, will you let them get to the Warmore? And now you won't let us. So...

First of all, we're angry with them, the Muslim community and the extremists within it. And after this, it's become more about civil rights. It's become more about, no, you're not doing this to us. And then, after that first protest... They come to my house, the police did, they raided 14 poppies. And what they did is, cleverly, which is what they're still doing now, it's their tactic, is to put fear into the community from speaking out.

Keir Starmer just done by weaponising the judiciary after the riots, by Lucy Connolly, Peter Lynch, me. They try and put fear, set as arm pulled by people, to make sure everyone else shuts up. So when they come in our houses, they went to my mum's.

And anyone who got nicked, I wasn't at home, so I didn't get nicked. Anyone who got nicked got given bail conditions not to enter Luton Town Centre 24 hours a day, seven days a week for three months. So then we sat down after and said, well, that's what we wanted for them.

So rather than give it to the terrorists, they've given it to us. And everyone was arrested on public order offences, yeah? No one got prosecuted. So these were just... And this become a tactic of the state. This was bullshit arrest to then employ...

to enforce bail conditions, to limit and prohibit your freedoms from protesting and standing up. So then comes the next protest three weeks later, and this is what changed it for us. Because I turned up that morning, I was wanted, as were all the other lads who were banned.

And I turned up with 100 balaclavas. And we met at a pub. And it was football lads. And we met up. I gave everyone balaclavas. We all had T-shirts that said it was a Luton logo with no surrender to Al-Qaeda. We met up. And again, I brought the cameraman. And I brought the cameraman. I rang the police phenomenously and said, stay out of the way today. I'm just giving you a warning because if you could have lit a match and threw it in the air, I think Luton would have just gone.

It was ready. I've never seen anything like it. And I've grown up in the town my whole life. And I remember at the time, after the first demonstration, I had Pakistani lads ringing me up saying yaks. Like, these are terrorists, bruv. Like, you're not messing with the street gangs. Like, you're upsetting everyone here. I remember saying, yeah, well, there's 500 of us. Because at the time, there was 500 of us. I said, there's 500 looting lads, and everyone's had enough of it.

We've had enough of the terrorism. We've had enough of the rapes. We've had enough of the heroin. We've had enough. So the second demonstration comes. Balaclavas are given out. We all then go into the town centre. Police attempt.

to stop it. And I warned them at the time, I said, don't try and stop it, because the town's going to burn. I'm telling you now, just let people get to the War Memorial. Let us have our day at the War Memorial. But they tried to stop it. And then there was running battles through the town. And then the images that then took this to international recognition was men wearing balaclavas with England flags on our town hall steps, which was then seen, which I understand why it was seen.

I then took the video of Luton's lads that day and I went on messaging boards around the country, which is football chat forums at the time. This was before the rise of social media, really. But every football club has a chat forum. Millwalls, football lads, Tottenham's football lads, Chelsea's football lads, they all have their own forums where they talk. And then put the video up and said Luton are making a stand, basically, against this, yeah? And that...

And people talked about the tactics at the EDL. This was the United People of Luton. And on that first demonstration, when we all met up, when they kettled us, the second one, I remember we sat in, it was called Brooksy's in the town centre. And I walked in and some big white skinhead lad had come in.

He said, and he sat down, he goes, are you the organiser? I said, yeah, this is all Luton's lads. And he goes, well, we've heard about what's going on. There's 30 National Front getting off the train station. I said, fucking great. I said, because we're going to smash their heads in lads. He's like, what? I said, look around this pub.

When the National Front come into this town, they're going to get battered. They're going to get run out. And they did get chased out. Tell people about the National Front. Because this is one of the big issues with you, Tommy, isn't it? For people who are not educated about this issue.

um a lot of people call you far right and in doing that now we can talk about you know the different aspects of your behavior some of the street violence and all that which is an issue and we'll talk about it But when they say far right, what they really mean, what they really mean, I think, is that you're racist, you hate black people, you hate brown people, you hate Jews, etc.

And the National Front are people who actually are all those things. The National Front are all those things. They're Nazis. They hate everyone. And there's never been the presence of those sorts of people within the town of Luton. So people say that about you, but what you're saying is you have always actually fought with and against those people. The whole time. Why?

Why don't you like the National Front? They're the same as the radical jihadists. It's exactly the same. In fact, they're now coming together, aren't they? They're now joining together. Hypnosis gets a bad rap, but it's not a gimmick. It's a legitimate therapeutic tool banked by research. And when it comes to weight loss, it can be a game changer. Hypnotio is a self-hypnotherapy app that helps you break bad eating patterns by working at the subconscious level where the real habits live.

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They're now joining together. They're now joining together. It's mad. You now see Nick Griffin sitting down with radical Dili Hussain. They both want supremacy. He wants white supremacy. He wants Islamic supremacy. And here they are together, they're basically all coming together just because they hate Jews and everything's the Jews' fault. That's what's brought them together now. But at this time, and our first, if you dig up... The first Luton, United people of Luton...

we had NF go to hell on our banners because we thought, you know, when you try and do something like this, we knew it would attract certain types. So we made it very clear. So this is Luton. We've had these two issues in Luton. All hell's going off. We then watch our... And if you look at the footage, go on... Luton Protest was a YouTube channel, and it's called The United People of Luton. You'll see the first ever protest.

And you'll see hundreds of us. And we're standing outside the town hall cheering, we are Luton Town. And then I see the leader of the council saying, all these outsiders have come into our town. It's like, we're not outsiders, it's our town. It's our town.

And they're taking the piss in the town. So this is all going on. Tommy, one sec, sorry. You've got lots to say. Which is great. And you've got loads of time, as we discussed. So we're just going to jump in every now and again because there's little bits that we want to... I do remember seeing somewhere, I haven't fact checked this to correct me, but something about you joining the BNP or something. What is the truth of that? So 2004, I joined the British National Party.

So 2004... Because they are basically the continuation of the National Front. They are. Nick Griffin was the leader. Nick Griffin was... They're the political wing of the National Front. They were. So 2004 was when I held the first protest about the loot in the Taliban. Right. Now that time, that's when I started going down the rabbit hole, looking online.

for who's talking about this. And to be honest, the only people who were talking about it was a group called the BMP. The BMP then were talking about it and then I think I messaged and they set up a meeting at a pub called the King Harry pub. And this is documented by Searchlight.

Searchlight was a far-left magazine. Now, Searchlight documented it as when the MiGs fell out with the BNP. The MiGs is Luton's football hula-bill element. It's called the Men in Gear. So we've turned up to this meeting where this is the group that's talking about...

these issues. Even back in 2004, they were talking about the grooming and rapes in Bradford and things like that. So they turn up to a meeting and we all turn up and they say, oh, he can't come in, he can't come in, he can't come in. It's like, what? They say, non-whites can't join.

So you're fucking joking. So at that point, you can't have a meeting in the pub. In fact, you can't operate in any pubs. You can't operate in any pubs in Luton, because that's what Luton is. Our problem, which was my... And you know, when you went on the BNP website at that time...

It had 10 points. TV's for old age pensioners. Every point, every point you'd go, I agree with that, I agree with that, I agree with that. Now, at this point, bearing in mind before this, I just, I didn't know the difference between left wing, right wing, and I didn't care.

because I was a working-class kid on a building site, earning money, didn't give a shit about politics, understood Islam, what was going on, but never ventured into politics. I didn't understand there was left-wing newspapers and right-wing newspapers until I set up the EDL.

And then I got a shock of my life. Absolute shock of my life. And I went through this learning curve. And this is kind of before the internet really is what the internet is now. So you can't just like AI search stuff. No, there was nothing. Right. The way to get your message across was get on the street. So you turn up to this meeting of the BNP, you realize they're racist, but you still joined?

No, I joined at that point as soon as I came online. Now, there was a leaked list. There was a leaked BMP membership list. Oh, you joined online and then you realised. Okay. But then when I realised, so the leaked list shows the membership, say, from 2002 to 2008. I joined in 2004 for one year.

So I'll join up with a year's membership. Don't rejoin. You can see the lead list. There's no rejoining, yeah? So at that point, it's like, right, you lot, fuck off. We'll do it our way, yeah? Which is, as lads in Luton, we'll do it our way. We organise our protests then.

We set up the first protests, had the two protests. Then, after they'd attacked our soldiers, and this still, for me, is still insane, yeah? They'd attacked our soldiers, and then I look online, and I'm following this group. They're holding the Islamic Roadshow. So we're looking at them. They were in Wood Green. So they had a street stall in Wood Green and we went in the back of a lorry, about 40 of us. And we pulled up down the end of the road, jumped out. There was one in, police were there.

But we shut down their stall again. So our tactics at the time was, let's follow these terrorists. Let's see, instead of going to football against Chelsea on Saturday, let's go find these up. That's basically just the truth of what we were doing. Let's shut this lockdown. Let's confront them.

And remember, the police were letting them act the way they wanted. Now, they become a prescribed terrorist organisation by 2010, after one year of the English Defence League chasing them around the country. Then the government stepped in, the Home Secretary, and then said, we've got to ban them.

Well, you know, you should have banned them 20 years ago. You banned them because there was street problems. They only listened to that. So at the time, I understand. Do you know something? I interrupted you there because... What you just said, I think 10 years ago, people would have been like, the police only react when there's street problems. But I can't argue with that now.

When I look around at what's happening now, I can't argue with it because they cover up and ignore stuff until people are really angry. And then they act on it. I mean, that's just people can say that's whatever. That's just a fact. If you look at our country now, if you look at the protests outside micro and hotels and all of this stuff.

They have been ignoring all this shit until people actually started getting angry. That's just a fact, right? It's a fact, and I'd say since 2001, when the Muslim community rioted in Bradford and the riots spread to Oldham and the riots spread to Stoke and... At that time, those riots, if you look at the cost of the riots, this was after, I think, an old age British pensioner was beaten by a gang of Pakistanis.

which provoked 200, again, football lads at the time, I think, from Holden. I think they marched into an area, a Muslim area, which then triggered race riots where... Entire place is burned through Bradford. They come out of Bradford and burn everywhere. Since that point, if you look at it, it looks like the government just went, OK, Muslims, do what you want. Yeah.

And the Muslim leaders, which they always do, and I've seen example after example of this, which we'll get onto, they just threaten violence. They just say, we won't be able to control our youth. yeah you've got to stop these people you've got to arrest him stop him shut down this and then the government just go and we'll just pander to them so you've seen and then now the country's seen it you saw on the hamas riots you saw them calling for jihad on the streets

Literally calling for jihad, and then the police are putting out a statement saying jihad has lots of different meanings. Not when it's coming from his butt to here, it doesn't. Because that man saying it is part of a prescribed terrorist organisation in most countries, but not this...

Pathetic country. It is now. But it wasn't at the time. Again, it is now. Why now? Why wasn't it? For the last 20 years, his but to hear, every Islamic society and every university around this country was his but to hear. So kids are going to university and a terrorist group, because they're now a terrorist group, but they've always been a terrorist group. Just our weak, pathetic government didn't prescribe them because they didn't want to upset people.

It's like mad. You don't upset them until they're calling for jihad, until they're openly saying the madness that we know they've been promoting anyway. They've made universities total no-go zones for certain communities, and whilst jihad runs. So, at that time, this is going on.

We look at the Islamic group. We then, we then, I see a young boy called Sean. He was 11 years old. He's in Birmingham and they get him up on stage, about 200 of them. I used this video in my Oxford Union presentation just to show people, look at what happened.

Because there's a story to what happened. Before the English Defence League was born, you have to understand the 15 years in Luton. Then you have to understand what went on with the UPL. Then you have to understand that the government, the local community council ignored us, suppressed us. Then you have to understand the police attacked us.

silenced us, bullshit charges to control us. Then comes the English Defence League. And it only come because Sean was 11 years old and they got him up on stage and they had a banner. saying Jesus was a Muslim in the city centre. Imagine we had a banner saying Mohammed was a...

was a Christian or something that would upset them. You just couldn't do it. Anyway, they'd kill you. But the police would stop you and all. But they had Jesus was a Muslim, hundreds of them screaming Allah Akbar whilst they converted an 11-year-old boy who was out with his mate shopping in Tanta. And I remember watching it going, right.

They can't do that, right? They cannot be doing this in city centres to kids. So we then went as a group of Luton lads. We said, right, called ourselves the English Defence League. I made T-shirts. We all wore them and we went to Birmingham. for our first ever, and it was, if you watch up, and this is where I learned a lot about the media, we went to Birmingham as a group of 50, and we got run and smashed everywhere.

Lads were getting beaten unconscious on the floor. There was newspaper clippings of English men with blood all over them. And there must have been... A mob of a thousand Muslims. And the police put us in a pub, yeah? And we were in this pub for three hours. And they couldn't clear the streets. So then the police end up getting us buses. They go and take buses to try and get us out of there.

They bring in buses. All the bus windows go through. And as we get out on these buses, everyone's getting smashed to hell. We're looking down the side streets and it's bricks littered everywhere. So I think they've been rioting for hours. Yeah, we've been rioting for hours.

And our banners read, Nigerian Christians, we stand with you as victims of jihad. Because, again, I'm down the rabbit hole at this point, and I'm organising it. And I saw that five Christian churches were blown up on Christmas Day. And it didn't even make our news. And I'm thinking, Christians are being massacred. Christian Nigerians are being butchered.

And nothing seems to be... Why is no one speaking about this? Where's the Christian leadership in this country? And I'm going down all these rabbit holes thinking, what's going on? So we'll go to Birmingham, and our banner said, Muslim, no problem, because I hadn't gone down the rabbit hole that much on the reality of Islam. I'd just been looking at groups.

Muslim, no problem. Extremest Muslim, big problem. But what happens is Salma Yaqub, which we didn't know, Salma Yaqub went in a mosque and she told the crowds of Muslims that the BNP, the National Front and the racists were here to attack them, which was us, 50 lads. So they come out and they rioted, but no one spoke. I remember watching it thinking, we've come here about Sean, because we had banners, what about Sean's rights? We've come here about this Christian kid who's been converted.

And no one's even spoke about it. So no politician spoke about it. Police didn't speak about it. No one mentioned it. We were called racist. We were called far right. And we were bad. That's basically it. So I watched this. And then after this, I saw this is how the EDL developed. From 50 men, these images went all over the country.

And people were talking about bloody Luton went to Birmingham today and got battered. And when I say people, I guess football elements in clubs were talking about it. Then there's a Christian graveyard. A church has been brought in Longside in Manchester.

And they're just bulldozing over the headstones. I remember them watching that going, well, you ain't doing that either. That's insane. So we then said, right, we're coming from Birmingham. We're now the English Defence League are coming to Manchester.

And that was a real changing moment, because when we turned up in Manchester as a group of 50, 2,000 young men were there. 2,000 young men were there like that. Because they'd watched the videos of the Muslims smashing everyone, and men who were not going to be smashed, that's how it started.

who were going to defend other English men at that time, which is so, people talk about, well, the English Defence League was a bit of an explosion. I said, after what happened to us in Birmingham, it was never going to be female school teachers and nurses that were coming out on the street. And I went for four years leading this group, and I think we're very lucky. And I decided to leave myself because I felt it was counterproductive to continue marching into cities.

I understood then maybe we weren't having the right effect because maybe we were giving the radicals and the extremists the ammunition for some other Muslims to join them. to say look at this lot yeah but we went around the country and remember at this time when I left Luton and I started meeting families and people and understanding Jesus Christ in every town city our daughters are being raped in it what I've seen in Luton

I'm then sitting with families. And again, I'll tell this story. We had our Blackburn demonstration. We went from Manchester to Stoke to Blackburn. Blackburn was chaos, but there was thousands. And I went the night before and sat with a family whose 12-year-old daughter had been missing for three days.

And there were 16-year-old brothers there. And they're crying. The family are crying. And then when we went to the demonstration, there's trouble flaring with the police. And I remember going down the front of that demonstration to try and calm the trouble. And who's at the front fighting the police? A 16-year-old brother. Who am I even selling? I've just sat with that family last night. The police ain't doing nothing. His daughter, his sister's missing for days. So that level of anger.

And the reason people talk about the phenomenon of the English Defence League at the time, because we went from here one day to within six months, we had divisions in every town and city and with the largest street protest movement in the Europe scene. And we didn't plan it. We didn't have control of it. The police had no idea or intelligence on it. So it just went home across the whole country. And why did it go home across the whole country? Because everyone, if you just look at Rotherham...

1,400 victims. Well, those 1,400 victims have probably got four family members each. That's 10,000 people just in Rotherham who have been directly evicted by the rape of gangs in that town. So when all these people have been silenced and scared to talk about it, people used to whisper about Islam.

all of a sudden you've got 3,000, 4,000 men walking through the streets singing We Are Infidels, and we've had enough of this. And I go back, and again, when we say what was the... I can look at mistakes we made, look at errors I made. my personal behaviour at times. I can look at all that and you learn a lot from it. But I just look at the graph. And if you do a graph and you set 2009, which is the formation of the English Defence League...

And you have a line like this for the Muslims who are arrested for rape of children in gangs. And the line goes like this. The English Defence League forms. And again, this is the only time they act when there's a resistance. Unfortunately, it just goes through the roof.

They realised in corridors of power, up and down this country, in government, they all of a sudden realised, we've got to do something. And in fact, Andrew Norfolk, I don't want to speak ill of a dead man because I know he's died recently, but this is his words.

He knew his words in an interview. He knew the gangs were operating. He knew the victims were young white girls. And he was too scared to report on it. Along comes the English Defence League. And what he says is, we needed to take it back from the far right.

Far right, what you mean by far right is families, fathers and Englishmen who ain't backing down on this issue, yeah? And we went through, our daughters are not, in the end, our banners said from 2009, our daughters are not Halaomi, yeah? Because that's how they've been treated.

Literally. And no one's doing anything about it. So then arrests start going through the roof. The government's not listening. And when I say they're listening, they were listening. When we set up the English Defence League, we're in Luton, and they called me for a meeting, the council did.

And I go to the meeting and they've got about 10 of them. And they had cameras set up like this and they had a Labour baroness. She was baroness from the Labour government, a black lady. And they sat me down and said, tell us, what's wrong? So I'll tell you, you want to know what's wrong?

And then I went through and I said, where do you live? She said, St Albans. Where do you live? Hitchin. These are the people who represent us. Where do you live? Not one of them lived in Luton. I said, you're not none of you to even Lutonians.

Yeah. And Mohammed was there. And I said, you live in Berry Park, don't you, bro? He said, yeah, I do. Yeah. I said, I know you do. So you represent your community. You're on the ground in your community. And you know what's going on in your community. You lot have got nothing in common with me. Or any of us, in fact. Yeah.

None of you are probably working class either. You're middle class. You've come into the council. You're in high role, 100 grand a year. And you're the people making decisions. So then they said, well, what's wrong? I said, OK, you see this park? And I took them up to Farley Hill in Luton. And this is a...

problem across... This isn't just... What I've seen in Luton is mirrored for every town to see. The problems of the gangs, the problems of the drugs, the problems of the police, the problems of appeasement, but the problems of funding and neglect of the working class. So I took them up to Farley Hill.

And I said, you see that park there that was built in 1960? This is a predominantly white council estate. So let's go down the Muslim community. So we drove down the hill. That's a £330,000 state-of-the-art park. Why? How come they've got that and we've got that? How come?

How come, because they class the Muslim community as a regeneration community, how come their community centres are free? How come for their kids to go play football is free, and ours it's not? We have to pay £5 each, which we don't have. So everything's built for this.

And nothing's built for this. And if you look at the achievements of working class kids now, white working class, the biggest academic underachievers, there's a reason for that. And it's what I've experienced my whole life. It's the two-tier policing, the two-tier funding, the two-tier council, the acceleration for this community and the...

ignoring and neglect of this community. So there's so many different things that played into it, but the English Defence League went bang. We travel around the country. I think in hindsight now, we're lucky no one was killed. We're lucky there weren't a sectarian conflict.

when, I think in 2014 was it, six Muslims got caught with guns, bombs, IEDs on the way to kill us. They got 30 years in prison. If they would have successfully targeted the English Defence League demonstration, this country would have blown up. So I get to 2014. I have a refreshing moment in jail at the time as well, thinking about my life, where's it heading, what's going on, what's our objectives. And at that point, I decided to leave the street protest element. Joe Wye as well.

interview, if I was sitting in and out leading the English French League, you'd both be grilling me on negative behaviour of members of the English French League. Rightfully so. Because some of it was moronic. But we were never talking about the issue.

I think any opportunity I got where I should be talking on chat shows and news shows, I want to talk about the problems this country faces. I want to talk about what I've seen. It wasn't, it wasn't, that wasn't happening. All right, people, it's trivia time.

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So I think, I don't know, tell me what you think, but I think partly the way you've been treated historically is bad class. I don't think anyone can deny that, right? Because you're making the same points as Douglas Murray. You know, Douglas speaks very, very, very well. You do too in your own way, right? But you make the same point. But the difference is Douglas is never on camera punching people.

Do you know what I mean? And so I think it's partly about class, but partly it's also about that element of it. This is why I asked you about the football hooligan stuff, because I think a lot of people, I tell you my opinion, right? Because we talked about this before we started.

We haven't had you on for a long time, even though a lot of people have wanted us to. And it's always the concern for people who have an audience, right? Which is, I think the point you're making on many, many issues are incredibly important and much more than that.

You've been proven right. Let's just be honest about it, right? On the grooming gangs, on the two-tier policing and all of these things that you're talking about. But the worry always is, is we can all feel now the countries are, I mean, it's a fever pitch, right?

We can all feel it. And the question for all of us is, what is it that we are... amplifying what it where where are we trying to take this do you know what i mean so when people see you getting involved in all these physical altercations and fights and you know you're standing there some guy's been knocked out the worry for a lot of people is

I might agree with what he's saying, but by pursuing this further, are we actually increasing the risk of a lot of violence? And that's a worry. Do you see what I'm saying? I totally understand. So people understand.

If I hadn't had the upbringing I'd had, and I hadn't grown up basically off the streets of Luton, then the first punch in the nose I got, and the first threat to my life, I'd have run away. And I never would have stood in the face of Islam. I never would have stood and continued saying, no, no, no.

It was my upbringing that done that and my background that done that. But there's not one single image of me or video of me being an aggressor. I'm defending myself. So, for example, last week, the incident last week, I'm not lucky enough to have a half million pound security like Nigel Farage.

I challenged Nigel Farge to walk the country with no security and tell me you won't end up seeing him getting attacked. We've seen him get an egg on him even when he's got 20 security. Well, go and walk through the towns I walk through. I walk everywhere on my own, lads. Everywhere. So last week, as a perfect example...

is I'd been out in London and I uploaded pictures. There were some lovely encounters with Muslim lads. Everything was good. I spent the whole day in London. I was at Parliament Square. I had Brian Rose podcast. I'm going about my business. And unfortunately, I've had to. for 15 years.

I've been beaten unconscious in Essex. I've been beaten in Luton. I've had to sit my kids down. I remember my face was rearranged. Absolutely rearranged. A car pulled over because I'd been getting jumped on on the side of the street by a gang of Pakistanis. And the car driver said... when I woke up. If I didn't put over, you'd be dead.

They're jumping on you non-stop. And then my face was out here. I remember having to tell my kids. It was just before Christmas. My kids were only this big. So I said I got kicked in the face by Santa's reindeers. But I remember having to sit these stories down. And for too long...

I said, I'm not a punchback. I'm not a punchback. So, for example, last week, I wish I had security that could intervene and tell people to stand back and don't start on him. But, for example, this gentleman, now, unfortunately...

There's been time and time again where I've had the need to defend myself. And I'm not going to apologise for being a man either. I will defend myself if I'm put. And do you know, for too many years, when I started the English Defence League, I realised, damn, the police want to get me.

Prison's a dangerous place for me. And I sort of had my hands be on my back. Because how I would have reacted, and I had to change how I'd react. How I would have reacted as a young man in Luton with someone calling me a cunt, I'd probably have banged him out as a kid. I probably wouldn't have tolerated that.

Then I realized, well, I have to tolerate some bitch. And I learned very quickly to use my mouth rather than my hands. As I become this figure that has to tolerate people who have... And I don't blame even the gentleman last week. I don't blame him.

for having a hatred of me, yeah? Because he has a hatred built of me. What happened, Tommy? What happened was I walked through the train station and now I've seen the CCTV as well, yeah? When I say this was the most scary week of my life, there's been an instant...

I sent you the voice note, yeah? So I'm walking through, and what I now know is a gentleman steps off the train at St Pancras. So he's ready to leave St Pancras. I come into St Pancras, and I go to get my train. He sees me, and he beelines for me. He follows me, but he doesn't just follow me, he gets here in my face. He's in my face, he's confronting me, telling me he'll end me.

telling me how little I am, screaming at me. I mean screaming at me, yeah? Screaming at me. And I'm the whole time just going, mate, fuck off. And I do warn him multiple times. I said, look, and as I was watching, I'm paranoid anyway. I've just come out of seven months in solitary confinement. I'm pretty on edge. I remember for the last couple of months, I'm not myself anyway.

I know that, yeah? I know that. So I don't feel myself... Well, in fact, you did ask to postpone our interview one time because you didn't feel right. Because I don't feel right. And I remember going into London to see some... A lady was terminally ill, God bless her, she's died now. I remember going in to see her, and I was like, I'm ready to blow here, yeah? I'm ready to blow. But I've been sat in a cell for seven months on my own, and then I've been bang, thrown out. So...

I had all this, so I made a decision to take a back seat for two weeks. I took my son away, played paddle, walked daily, routine. I needed routine. I've got all this, but as this gentleman comes up to me, he's aggressive, he's threatening, and what a lot of people... And I'm so relieved because as this has gone on, basically he follows me for...

Two minutes. And he's getting in my way. And I'm trying to get around him. And I get away from him once. And he comes back after me again. And I say to him, mate, if you come back in with my space, I'm going to defend myself. Because in my mind, he was just trying to get close enough to snake me.

That's what I was thinking the whole time. I know what you're doing, but I know what you're doing. So I was trying to move back, and I get to the top of the escalators at the stairs, and he's following me. So now I think, well, he'll kick me downstairs, yeah? I'm going down to a train. He'll kick me in front of me. And he was a big fella.

If you look at it, he was a much bigger fella. It's not hard to be bigger than me, but he was a big fella. I then step back to let him go. So I go, you fucking go. You go down the stairs. But he doesn't go down the stairs. He gets to the top of the stairs and he turns on me.

And at that point, which this is the problem we have, at that point, let's just say there is a recording. Yeah, there is a recording that has exactly what he's saying. Yeah. Now, the police are not probably aware of this. They don't have this. Right. So there is a recording of exactly what he's saying. It makes very clear who the aggressor is. It makes very clear who's threatening who. Now at this point...

I just know, because things happen quick, don't they? This has all happened quick to me. I know I've had to defend myself. He's ended up asleep on the floor. I've only hit him once, yeah? I've pushed him, and then as he continued to come at me, the whole time I'm going backwards, but I couldn't really remember at the time, or straight afterwards. So as soon as this has happened, he don't look in a good state.

I'm thinking, right, I'm on London Underground. I'm on my own. Crowds are going to come. This ain't going to be good. So I leave. As soon as I leave, I contact the police, which is the recording you would listen to. Contact the police and say, look, this has happened. i've been walking i've been accosted i've been threatened i've tried to get away multiple times

I had no option, right? I don't... Do you think I want to be out fighting? So I don't want to be out... Well, I do, though, Tommy. Yeah, do you? You're a football hooligan, right? No, I'm 42 years old. But you see what I'm saying, right? I see what you're saying. Have you seen Trainspotting?

No, I have years ago. Do you remember there's a character in that called Begbie, right, who's always starting fights? Yeah, yeah. And I don't know if this is true of you, but I'm going to be honest, from the outside, it does... It does look a bit like that's your person. You like him.

No, but I don't. Do you see what I'm saying? Do you know the feeling for me? I'm not big. Do you know the feeling for me? So when he come up here, I was startled, yeah? And there may be times when people watch me, yeah? Yeah. And I may seem confident, right? Because I have to seem confident. Of course. But at the same time, I'm shitting myself.

Every time I go to jail, I'm shitting myself. When I walk down the street sometimes and four lads stop, I'm thinking, for fuck's sake. But again, I've learned there's only one language people understand. So there's only one language. All I'm saying is, the only reason I'm challenging you is... I think you are someone, look, 500 years ago, right, the country would be desperate for people like you, right?

Because you'd be on the front line fighting some fucking war, right? You're a warrior. So when you say, I don't want to be fighting people, I don't believe it.

Well, if I wanted to be fighting people, I could have a fight every day because people say things to me every day. I don't want to be fighting people. Least of all, a drunk idiot at a train station. All I wanted to do was get home. Now, what this developed into was the worst week of my life because obviously this has happened at a train station. I've contacted...

the police, said, look, lads, what do you want from me? Let me know what I need to do. I'm up for an interview. I'm telling you, he was the aggressor. I've had to do this. I contact the police for that. I then go home and then I'm seeing things develop.

blood transfusions. He didn't have blood transfusions. They made it look like he's dead. Have you ever seen forensic tents? Like, forensic tents, full boiler suit officers. I'm thinking, oh, he's dead. He's dead. And then I'm thinking, Jesus Christ. And then I think, there's not going to be any...

CCTV. They're going to get rid of... This is what I'm thinking, because I don't trust the system. I think they're going to get rid of CCTV. They're going to get rid of it. And then I look and think, right, I know there's a recording of this last moment. I know there is. There's a recording.

What do you mean? How do you know? Because there is a recording, yeah? There's a recording. We'll see if it goes to court because the recording will get played. What I'm saying is the witnesses, the witnesses, because, so the witness statements... Am I allowed to talk backwards? I've got a bowel condition that I can't identify the witnesses, but the witnesses say stuff that didn't happen. And it's on the fucking recording, right? And guess what? The witnesses don't like me.

Don't like me, even the police officer said after interview, do you think maybe their negative opinion of you is what's made them say this? Because when I get to a police interview, I've obviously contacted the police, and this is where it's all mad. The media are chasing me down. They're in gyms, they're at people's houses looking for me and Tenerife. I'm not on the run. They're telling everyone I'm on the run. I've been in contact with the police the whole time.

I've told the police I'm coming back on Monday because my flight booked was already to come back on Monday. So I'm coming back into Manchester Monday. They said, can you come back into London? So I said, OK, I'll change my flight. I'll be on this flight going into Luton at this time. So I give them the details. I then turn up and there's police everywhere and I'm thinking...

Well, I've arranged to meet you, lads. And then they're like, are you surprised to see us? I said, well, I'm not surprised to see you because it's me that told you I'm here. But when I get to the police interview, bearing in mind at this point, I've had to ring my kids on FaceTime, cry my eyes out, saying, kids, I'm gone.

I'm watching what's being said. I think they're going to remind me. A judge is just going to say, put him in jail. I'll sit in jail now and solitary for a year. GBA Section 18, they nip me on. That's 10 to 12 year sentence. I think I'm going to spend five, six years. I'm finished. My life's over. So for this week, I'm thinking my life's over because I've been accosted, threatened and attacked and I've had to defend myself. It's like, so when people say there are images, there's an image of me.

in Hitchin, I don't know if you've seen the video, where some young hooded Gambian migrants were coughing in an old couple's face. I don't know if you've seen this. They attack an old couple during COVID, give her a black eye. I'm with my kids. I get out of the car, I end up fighting three of them, yeah? So, yeah, again, maybe if I was like 90% of the other men in England, I'd have drove off and pretended I didn't see it, yeah? Maybe. And the same with threatening me, so...

If you're going to come up to me and threaten me and want to commit violence on me, I'm going to defend myself. I don't want to. I don't want to. And when you say football violence, just so people understand again, so people understand the football element in it. Lads who go to football have usually got good jobs. They work five days a week. They're good people. They're working-class men, but they don't mind a rival punch-up with other lads.

It's not like they're out robbing people, out terrorising people, or 20 of them are jumping one person. If 20 lads started booting one lad at football, the other lads wouldn't let it happen. They wouldn't let it happen. I know it sounds mad. I remember going to Bristol. We went to Bristol and there was 11 of us and 60 of them. This woman, I was probably 18 or something. There was a big fight on the bridge. One of our lads got knocked out.

We've all had to give it legs. And then we've rung his phone and the Bristol lads have answered it. We said, we've got him here. He's in the pub with us, right? And I said, is he all right? They said, yeah, we'll drop him and meet you. And they've dropped him off. So there's like... I see what you're saying. I guess the only reason I was challenging it is it hard. I'm not judging, Tony, genuinely. I'm just saying my honest opinion, right? And we can disagree about it. When you say...

you don't want to get in a fight. I'm like, Tommy, you spent most of your youth going to football to have a fight, and now you're sitting here saying you don't want to get in a fight. I don't want to get in a fight. with random people walking down the street, and most of them, and I'll give you another example. There's a lad called Bob, yeah? So I'm out in Hitchin. Hitchin's lovely, by the way.

Different world. I realise there's places outside of Luton when it comes back. I thought, Jesus, what I think is normal is not normal. I thought, growing up, this is normal. This violence is normal. This is normal. Everyone has aggression. If you look at someone, you might be in a fight. I went to Hitchin.

Wow, what a lovely place. I went to hit gym and I was out and this bloke went online and he put, anyone who wants to attack, get Tommy Robinson, he's in this pub. Yeah, I was with my friend and both our partners. When I left the pub, there's six lads waiting.

I get rushed. They come at me again. I catch him. This attack, I get a blood clot. So this gentleman this week had a blood clot. I had a blood clot here. I had to go have an operation. This happens. I then go, I go home and on the, on the, on the business.

ownership hub of pubs in Hitchin, because they're all part of some group, they're all saying the far-right racist Tommy Robinson was in Hitchin fighting last night. And one by one they're going, he's barred, he's barred, he's barred. I'm thinking, I've never caused a problem in Hitchin.

How am I getting barred? I got attacked. So I've gone to the pub and said, how are you barring me? I didn't do anything wrong last night. I got rushed. It was two days later. So I found the gentleman who said this. And I found his address. And I went to his house. It's in Letchworth. Knocked on the door.

Sister answered. She said, what the fuck are you doing here? So tell Bob I'm here. Tell him to come outside. This is the man who promoted violence against me. He wouldn't come outside. He shut the door. So I put my phone number through the letterbox. Leave my phone number there. And then I go home and I put a picture of him on my social media at the time.

I said, you need to call me, mate, yeah? And then I get a text message. Sorry, Tommy, I was drunk, yeah? Tongue-in-cheek moment. I said, it's not a tongue-in-cheek moment. I got violently attacked. You need to see me, mate, yeah? I said, well, I'm just going to come back round.

Right? So he agreed to meet me next day in Café Rouge in Hitchin. So I've walked into Café Rouge and he sat there with his two little steadheads. He's an Asian lad. Two little juiceheads. And I said, come outside. And they said, you can talk in here. I said, shut up. If I wanted to get him, I'll get him.

I said, so just come outside. And as he comes outside, my mate's waiting for the camera. I said, tell the camera why I should be violently attacked. And he's like, I said, I got violently attacked because of you, but you're calling me the thug.

You've incited violence against me. Why should I be attacked? He goes, well, you hate the immigrants. I said, okay, let's start there. I don't hate the immigrants. My mum was an immigrant. Most people I love are sons of immigrants or immigrants. So I don't hate the immigrants. So what else do you think? You want to deport all the Muslims. Never said that.

That would mean deporting people I love. So when I went through all of the things he thinks, we established I don't believe any of them. So you hate me because you think I stand for saying. And at the end of it, I said, I'm going to do Bob. And I shook his hand. He was open border policy. We had totally different views.

But he was all right, yeah? And he goes, I'm sorry, you shouldn't have been attacked. I said, so Bob, I'm going to delete this. I'm never going to share this video, yeah? This video ain't going out. I'll shake your hand on it. Well, forget it. I'm going to delete everything, yeah? But you're making these judgments. The nearest mosque to you is in my town.

You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what you're talking about. And then I found out who the kids were that beat me up. The six of them. And I went and found him. He lived in a 1.4 million pound house with his mum and dad. They're little students. They beat me up because there were six of them.

They couldn't fight. And then when I went to his house, I knocked on the door and his mum's answered. I said, you need to tell your son I'm here. Where is he? She goes, he's at university. I said, get him on the phone and tell him I'm here. So she rang him up and he said, mum, ring the police, quick, ring the police. I said, don't ring the police.

Trust me, don't ring the police. And I'm thinking, don't ring the police because your son's in trouble. I'm not in trouble. So anyway, she rings the police. I then leave. Police run away. The copper rings me. Says, Tommy, right, we understand you've been to a house today. He goes, now...

I'll be honest with you. I went to meet at the police. He goes, I'll be honest with you. We would have thought you were there to threaten. But we spoke to Bob, whose house you went to previously. And Bob spoke very highly of you. I said, how come you spoke to Bob?

And they said, because you put the picture of him online. I goes, okay, so I put the picture of him online. So you went to see Bob. But you saw what he said then. So you saw that he incited violence. But you went still to see him as a victim. When I'm the victim. So you know I've been attacked by six men.

They then prosecute. So this has gone on. And I said, mate, I was just going to see the kids to challenge him, which is what I do with most people on this issue, which is why people say, oh, you're threatening us. No, I'm challenging him. The police end up charging these kids. Now, this kid was a university student.

He's probably never been in trouble in his life. And I didn't want him getting charged. And I said to the police, I don't want him to get done. I wanted to have a conversation. And through that, one of his friends' boss rang me up, who was friends with my friend. I said, what's going on? I said, I don't want them to lose their careers. I don't.

They're stupid. They've attacked me, but they need to learn a lesson. And then I didn't turn up at court, so the case got kicked down. But that is a prime example of when I went through this kid, the six kids that attacked me, they're all white. I went through their school group, all their photos. Not a single non-white friend. If ever there's white privilege, it's them. Yet they hate me from Luton when they have no idea what it's like.

So they have no idea what it's like living there and that's the majority of the problem. So even this gentleman who's confronted me at the train station this week and it hasn't ended well for him, even him, I don't blame him.

Because he's feeding off probably a narrative that you probably swallowed 10 years ago. He's racist, he's extreme, he's a Nazi. All the things the media told you. Now, why did the media tell you that? Because they didn't want to talk about the Green Gangs. They didn't want to talk about Islamic radicalisation.

They don't want to deal with these issues because these issues are their policy failures. They've failed. This issue that we're all worried about now, the reason why mums are out on the streets, the reason why there's protests outside the migrants' hotel, is because of their failures. They've imported this problem into the country.

And they've tried to scare the hell out of everyone. And when I say the level of... We're talking about these grooming gang inquiries now. When I started the English Fence League, in the first six months, I had three police raids.

They fabricated charges. They put me under bail conditions. Bail conditions not to contact the English Defence League. The bail day, Yorkshire police travelled down. They're rearing their mind, Rotherham's in Yorkshire. Yorkshire police travelled down to my mum's and my kid's house, raided them with machine guns. Then gave me bail conditions for a criminal damage on a £30 door, they said. I was in a hotel. They said I damaged the £30 damage. And then the bail conditions was not to send an email.

not to be in a group of two or more people with the English Fantasy League. My bail date was the same date I was due to talk about grooming in Yorkshire. And I put in a complaint through the IPCC. and said, this is all politically motivated. The reason for this arrest is fabricated. You've done it to stop me talking. It took two years for the results. They just accepted it all. Yeah, we did. But remember, at this time...

No one was talking about grooming. No one knew about grooming. The police were still in full-on cover-up mode. If you look at who was in charge of Rotherham Police during the biggest scandal, which is 2006 to 2012, probably, the officer in charge of Rotherham Police is now in charge of counter-terrorism.

I face counter-terrorism trial next month, in October. It's like everyone who had dirty hands, it's why Labour can't allow this inquiry. Because every councillor in Labour, or worker within the council, who was in charge 15 years ago, or during the height of this scandal... They've all rose to the top. Tommy, when you look back at some of your behaviour, do you think that it's tarnished your message? I think that my behaviour was impossible. Like, as a young man walking down the street...

I'll tell anyone. Try and talk about Islam. I think Saira Khan. Was it Saira Khan? I was on a chat show with her and they're all attacking me. And I was trying to talk about grooming. This is 2010. And they're all screaming at me that I'm a racist. And all I kept saying is, what have I said that's racist?

Like, there's not one thing I've ever said that's racist. Why are you shutting down this debate? And she said, well, and I said, I've got death threats threatening my family. And she said, well, I haven't got death threats. Do you know why I haven't got death threats? Because I'm a nice person. And I said,

Try and talk about Islam, you'll have death threats. Seven years later, she spoke about Islam, and then she's sitting on loose women crying, saying, I've got death threats. It's like, welcome to the real world, darling.

What has happened to me through having this opinion and speaking out the way I do, it's destroyed my life. It's destroyed my wife's life. It's destroyed my mother's life. I live with constant death threats. I've got some of them here if you want to read when we talk about a two-tier policing system. I have to wear a bulletproof vest. I've got people wanting to murder me. Well then stop being a racist and a bigot!

Can you please explain one thing I've ever said. I am a British citizen. I was born in this country and I do not spout off rubbish like you do. What am I saying that's rubbish? I haven't got death threats. Do you know why? It's because I'm a nice person. Please explain. If you talk against Islam, you'll have death threats.

culture it's even more taboo because once you bring shame to your family that's it you know you the consequences are you could be killed you could be ostracized and literally you just You know, the whole family splits up. When I came on here to talk about what happened to me, it was a family member. It took me years to come out and say it. And I just did it spontaneously on Loose Women. The repercussions on my family have been horrendous.

Did some of them not believe you? They didn't believe me. They had a go at my mum. You know, it went all the way back to Pakistan and the family there. Which illustrates perfectly why, as a 13-year-old or whatever, you wouldn't come out and say something.

Absolutely you wouldn't. So when they talk about my behaviour, I don't think, I can, I understand people's questioning of the tactics of the English Defence League or the aggressive street presence of the English Defence League, but without the English Defence League? We still won't have the conversation back then. But it's not just the English defence, Tommy. So, for instance...

I think it was in Leeds Crown Court, where you breached a court order, where you're recording those... Again, I didn't breach a court order. So let me tell you what happened. Okay, you tell me and then we'll talk about it. So... I did breach the law in Canterbury Court. So basically, there was a... I read this story. I got contacted by people in Canterbury who said that Muslims running a takeaway...

A young 14-year-old girl was drunk. She got lost. She went in and asked for directions. They took her upstairs on a mattress and six of them raped her one by one. All of their DNA was found and they're all out on bail. One of them has skipped and gone to Italy.

They changed the name of the shop and reopened the shop. So I was thinking, well, that can't really have happened. So I've gone down there. I've gone down to Canterbury. I've stood and watched the shop. I've looked at the ownership, looked at the change of name, thinking...

That's still the shop. They're still the same people. As I've done that, kids are walking past going in the shop. So I went up to people and said, do you know what these men have done in this shop? Everyone's like, what? No. I'm thinking, well, people need to know.

So then I thought, right, I'm going to get the men. I'm going to get a picture of them. So I went outside Canterbury Court because the men were starting their first day of trial. So I went outside Canterbury Court and they were already in court. Now, I didn't know at this time that you cannot film on court property.

So if you stand on the court steps and film, which is what I've done, I filmed myself. The judge let the men use a back exit. So the judge protected the alleged paedophiles from alleged they got 25 years in the end. One of them never got one. But so at this point...

I went home after that video. You say protect, Tommy, but isn't that part of what the judge should have done for that case? I think what the judge should have done, when there's six DNA matches on six pedophiles who had raped a young English child, they should have been in jail on remand, but they weren't.

They were walking the streets. There was still a danger to the community and someone needed to warn the community. Yeah. So that's what I went to do. Now, the next morning at six in the morning, boom, my door goes through and I'm dragged down to Canterbury Court before the same judge. Yeah.

who, bear in mind, again, it's pretty embarrassing for the judge. She's let these out on bail. They shouldn't be out on bail. So then I'm before the judge and she gives me a three-month suspended sentence because I breached the law by filming myself on court property. Now, after this, have you heard of Kingsley Napoli?

They're one of London's leading law firms. Remember, I'm a citizen journalist. So I haven't studied. I've become a journalist. I've gone from street protest movement and I left the English Fence League in 2014 and I went to prison and I come out of prison and... Ezra Levant in Canada offered me a job and said, please make videos for us. And then I started making videos, realized that instead of talking to people on the street, what I need people to see...

is what I've seen. I need them to understand what I understand now from growing up in Luton, the problems, the dangers. I want to bring the issues that these lot aren't talking about into the average home. So we'll bypass the mainstream media. And we'll have people sitting at home in their lounge watching this. So I realised this is what we need to be doing. So I've become a citizen journalist. And I didn't know the laws. So I paid myself to go on a course with Kingsley Napoli.

where they taught me you cannot assume guilt. I didn't know all this. You can't say he's a people. Yeah. It's an allegation. If someone's charged with... I didn't know this. If someone's charged with an attack... By the way, I'm only laughing because it sounds funny. To be fair, when we started this on Exaculous and we weren't trained journalists either.

we had to have people explain libel laws. Because we used to joke about big corporations, they're all stealing money, they're all doing this. And then somebody would be like, you're going to get done for this. The Halal Authority, they sue everyone to talk about Halal. So again, I'm just giving...

context to what you're saying. I went through that same process of trying to understand. So I paid this law firm and went down and had training. We had training all the time to understand you can say this, can't say this, don't assume guilt. And you see if there's a report restriction. This is on the judiciary website.

The judge has no power to put a reporting restriction on information that's already in the public domain. So when the grooming gangs, the police start making arrests and they start charging and bringing court cases against these gangs. 2012, it probably started, the cases. There's a case in Oxford. In that case in Oxford, what we heard, because when there's a six-week trial and the media are sitting in court, they're writing everything every day. So we're getting six weeks worth of news.

We're finding out the girls are called Gula, Dirty Gula, so they're racial crimes against the girls. There's religious comments against the girls. The girl was heated up an iron rod. She was 12 years old and he had a letter M and he heated it up and he scolded her bum because she was the property of Mohammed. Another girl, they took her tongue and they nailed it to a table.

Another girl they took to the woods and they poured gasoline over her and to scare the hell out of her, she's urinating herself in the woods. So we found out a lot of the details here in this one case. What the government did after that.

because whilst they have to deal with it, they don't want everyone knowing what's going on. What they then did is they brought in reporting restrictions for every single case. So now, so with the Leeds case, for example, there's a six to eight-week trial, and there's reporting restrictions, which what that means is they banned...

Any of the details have been spoken about until the end of the trial. So instead of getting six weeks' worth of news and commentary, you get one day's news at the end. 30 men convicted. You don't get the details. You get one day's use. So very clever by the government. And that's what they've done on all these trials. So when I went up to Leeds, I stood outside. I said, right. But if you watch the video, what I said is, I've got Muslim lads I grew up with.

who would want to punch these men's head in for the allegations they face. So again, it's not all Muslims that are doing this. But... There's a problem here. And I get the facts of the case that were already in the public domain. Bearing in mind, I'd looked at this gang. I knew what chicken shops they were working in. I knew they were still in contact with kids. I didn't let on any of that. I said, these are the men's names from a BBC website. Let me read you their names.

I read the 30 names, or obviously 30% of them call Mohammed. All of them are Muslim, bar one. So I read the names, read the alleged crimes, read the alleged victims. Police then come up to me outside court. They arrest me for breach of the peace. And I say, what breach of the peace?

I'm then put before the judge. Now, he, the judge, Judge Marston, gave me a 13-month prison sentence within two hours. So I wasn't allowed to speak to my own legal brief. They said no. I wasn't asked if I was guilty or not guilty.

I was carted off to prison for 13 months. And then two hours later, my car's still outside the court. I've gone to work. I'm a journalist. I've gone to work. But before I've done that, I also know the rules of court are, if there's a reporting restriction, it has to be on the door. and it has to be on the screen. So I went into court, took a picture of the door, I took a picture of the screen. I kept those pictures, I produced them in court. There was no report restriction.

But I believe there was a reporting restriction. So I still stuck to the guidelines of if there was a reporting restriction. So I didn't mention anything other than what the judge has no power to limit. So originally... The allegation was I breached a reporting restriction. So they locked me up for 13 months, tell the whole country I pled guilty. I'm sitting watching, I'm in jail. I'm transferred from, I'm putting HMP whole, 13 months. When he put me in jail that day, he let all the...

We can now call them paedophiles because they're all convicted. He let them go home. One of them packed his suitcase and has never faced justice. He was more worried about me than he was about the paedophile. So they've all gone to prison. I'm in jail. 10 to 11 weeks. I get moved from HMP Hull.

which has a full 5% Muslim population, where I was okay, to HMP only, which has a 33% Muslim population. Now, this was a damaging sentence for me, and it was damaging for my mental health. It changed me as a person. I went into jail one person and come out another.

because I spent 11 weeks in solitary confinement with no food, no one to contact, because I couldn't eat the food because it's by Muslim. I had five tins of tuna. That got me through a week. Five tins of tuna was all I had. So I went through all this. During that prison sentence, they played so many games. They come to my cell and said...

Where's your wife? I said, I don't even get a phone. I get a phone call at lunchtime, yeah? My wife works in a school. My kids are at school. So I only got to speak at a weekend. So I'm sat in this cell all day. What do you mean, where's my wife? Well, there's intelligence. She's going to be attacked with acid. And then they shut the door.

And that would drive you mad, yeah? And they knocked on my wife's door, they knocked on my mum's door, giving them all these intelligence. I'm in there, I get 13 months, and after 11 weeks, it goes to the High Court of London, where we find out, not my words again...

The entire process was flawed. Judge Masterson had done nothing that he was supposed to have done. I wasn't asked to plead guilty or not guilty. I wasn't given time to prepare anything. So I'm released from prison. Now, the story they went with was that I breached a reporting restriction. They then had to change that. Because I'm released from prison. I'm let go. I walk out. And at this point, 660,000 people signed a petition demanding my release. 30,000 people marched on Parliament.

When I come out of prison, the government were doing government-funded questionnaires on social media about people's views of me. So they were obviously worried, saying his popularity's grown from this case. There was a free Tommy movement worldwide. Gert Wilders flew into London, spoke at a demonstration. He's now won the election in Holland, a congressman.

Gossard, Paul Gossard, flew in from America and spoke at the same event, saying release him now. This is outrageous. He's a journalist. Americans can't understand the reporting restriction thing because rather than limit... The public in America, they just limit the jury. They put them in hotels. They let the public know everything. You can watch live cases. But this all happens. I'm released from prison. I then find out when I'm released that there's a documentary being made by Panorama 2.

called To Take Me Down. Yes. Have you watched Panadrama? Yeah. What a work of art it was, eh? So I then find out they're doing a documentary against me. I send someone undercover into them. So when I send someone undercover into them, at this same point, the government have took this case back to the old Bailey. Now when it goes to the old Bailey, now I've got a chance to defend myself.

I produced the pictures that show there was no reporting restriction. I produced the judiciary guidance on their own website that the judge has no power to limit anything that's already in the public domain. I produced all of this. It goes before the head judge.

And he kicks it back to the government and lets me go. There's a video of me coming out of court. We're all singing. It's great. It gets kicked back to the government. The case is gone. I then produced a documentary called Panorama where I exposed that Panorama was being used.

It basically had the head of Panorama sitting down, telling people what to say in an interview, making agreements and deals with people, making sexual allegations against me. If this documentary would have gone out, it would have finished me. I'd be finished, yeah? Maybe that's what's happening with Russell Brand, who knows? Maybe it's what's happening with other people, who knows? I don't trust anything anymore, yeah? But Panorama...

I produce a counter documentary to it, which ends their documentary. And I produce it and release it online. It has 2 million views in 48 hours. From this, I'm deleted off of every social media. And the Attorney General re-prosecutes me.

for the offence that's gone. I'm taken back to court. Do you know what they've done? The judge, the judge, the head judge of the Old Bailey who removed him, you can look this up, the head judge of the Old Bailey who said no and sent it back to the government, they removed him.

And they replaced him with the first ever head female judge, Dane Victoria Sharp. I then go before Dane Victoria Sharp. Yeah. And this is, I should do a documentary about it to show people what happened. When I'm outside Leeds Crown Court, what I said in my video is I said to the media. To the journalists who have harassed me, even this week harassing me flying to Tenerife, you're always flying to my holidays. I said, instead of harassing me, why don't you harass these men?

They've raped 100 kids. Why aren't you at their businesses? Why aren't you taking pictures of their families instead of targeting me? I said, so don't harass me, harass them. But it's very clear if you watch the context of the video that I'm talking to the media. Dame Victoria Sharp. cuts that video and says that I caused fear, alarm, to the Muslim paedophiles as they walked into court.

To be fair, Tommy, because I know people in that courtroom, they also said that these were the people who were just involved in the case, but not the Muslim pedophiles. They were scared because there was an element of the crowd that looked pretty menacing.

No, on my case, it was just me. My first case, it was just me. So my first case, as they walked into court, I said, all I said to them, very calmly, how do you feel about your verdict? They said, fuck you, I'll rape your mum. Okay. Not a surprise for me, hearing that from you. But that's it, yeah? It's like, okay. I mean, that's one way to incriminate yourself. That's what you call a credible threat right there, right? So then, so all I asked was that.

As a journalist. All I asked was that. So when Dane Victoria Sharp has me in court, what I'd done is, as I walked into court and all the journalists, a whole scrum of them come around me, I just showed her the video. I said, well, what's the difference? Because look what they've just done to me. That's all I've done to them. So if I made them feel unsafe, they've made me feel unsafe, no? But this is where they can show me the man, I'll find the crime.

All right. We're getting into the weeds here. Let's talk about what we're actually talking about. Well, they sent me back to jail for that, for causing alarm and distress to the Muslim paedophiles. They gave me another 10 months. So I spent time in solitary. They sent me back into Belmarsh for a crime I've already sent jail for. and deplatformed me. I was deleted off YouTube, deleted off Facebook, made a dangerous person. The point of this is all because I exposed the BBC.

All because I made a documentary. Watch it. Panadrama at trfilms.co.uk. All my documentaries are there. I'm not just saying it. My journalism and investigative journalism, I think it's the best in the country. Okay. Go for it. Do you want to? Well, I just missed. Did you know that saffron has been shown in human studies to help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up without grogginess? That's what makes evening being by Verso so interesting.

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Here are some of the things people are saying. Dennis said, I've had trouble sleeping for years and evening being is the only thing that keeps me asleep at night. And David wrote, I was pleasantly surprised how effective this wasn't helping me sleep through the night. Click the link in the description or head over to ver.so and use the code trigger at checkout to save 15% on your first order. What I'm really interested in, Tommy, and I think it's really important to have this conversation.

properly right is you talk about the fact that you you're a very smart guy i can tell very smart we've sat across some Some of the most intelligent people in the world. You're a smart guy, right? But you were not educated. You just had experiences when you were growing up. Is that fair to say, right? That's fair to say. So you know this. You know this. You've seen that. You've seen this happen to your cousin. All of these things are going on. You experience things.

But then, and this is where I really want to hear your opinion, right, is you started to actually study. You started to look at Islam. you read the quran you you try to understand the scriptural part of all of this right and this is really where i think a lot of the conversation is now at which is about islam and the west

Why is it that things are becoming more tense? Why is it that thing you talk about how when Muslims fight, non-Muslims, even your Muslim friends will join them rather than you, right? So what is it that you've learned? And what is it that you believe about Islam? Can you explain that part to people? Yeah, so 2010, it's the Quran. 2010, I'm in jail. I'm doing 22 weeks of solitary confinement at that point. For what?

for illegally entering America. It's a stupid move. I'll tell you the truth. I sort of lived my life where I think if you worry about consequences, you're never going to bring about change. And I wanted change. So I felt at that time in 2000, I went to America in 2009 or 10. I was detained at JFK and deported. And I thought, no, I've got an important message to give America. And so I went again on a friend's passport. I got in.

Yeah, I got in. And I gave a speech called A Warning to America. And what I've always said is I wish someone come to my town 30 years ago and said, listen, this is what's going to happen.

unless you stop it. So I went to America, knowing what I was doing was wrong, knowing it was risky, I thought I'd end up in jail in America. But I didn't. I got detained here when I got back, and I spent 22 weeks on soldier confinement. Now, a Muslim outreach... Mate, you know what? You're fucking insane. You know that? Like...

From what I've seen of American prison, that is not a place you want to go to voluntarily. No, but you know, crazily, crazily, I thought at the time, remember, we began the English Defence League, and I'm a deep thinker, yeah? Yeah. I believe this country's in danger.

And I believe my children are in danger. And I believe the enjoyment and freedoms we've all had are going to be eroded and taken. And the kids won't have them. And this is far bigger than me or my kids. This is about a generation of our kids. And I believe that. And I've believed it since growing up. I agree with you. So when this was starting... What do you mean by freedoms, by the way? I mean the ability to speak. Because they just curtail and suppress. And it suits the government as well.

So they create the problem a lot of the time, which they're doing. And I think maybe I've played my part in that role where they want us all clashing with each other. Because as we're clashing with each other, we're not looking at them. And they want everyone separated into gay, straight, black, white, BLM, this group, that group. You're all warring with each other. And whilst you're warring with each other...

They're implementing so many laws that you're not even listening about, and all those laws are going to curtail and prohibit your speech and your ability to even have discussions on any of these issues. And the reason being that... most issues are coming from the government. It's their failure. It's all their problems. I don't blame Muslims for coming here. I don't blame Muslims in the UK for wanting Sharia law because this tells them to all it. So I don't blame them. Let's come back to that.

So you got to America because you thought you had an important message. I spent two days in New York. You know, if I knew I was going to do 22 weeks in solitary confinement, I'd spend a few months touring, wouldn't I? I spent two days. I've got 22 weeks in solitary. Whilst I'm in...

Now I get sent a Quran by Muslims to try and convert me. So I take the Quran. I think, right, I've got a lot of time on my hands here. Let's have a look at this book. Now, I don't know how many people know this, but the Quran is not in chronological order.

I didn't know this. So one thing Muhammad says one day is next to something he says 20 years later. So for you to try and, any of us to try and make sense, it's like what the Christians used to do. They wanted everyone illiterate so they could control the population. The Quran is like an encrypted war manual.

that you can't make sense of. And it's important that you can make sense of it because abrogation in Islam means whatever Mohammed says later in his life supersedes to what he says earlier. So if there's two contradictory verses, if he says, love the Jews, and then later he says, kill the Jews, then which one did he say later?

This one matters. This prohibits this one. So they give me the Quran. And then I thought, right, let me make a few points here. Let me make, do not be friends with Christians or Jews. And I challenge anyone to do this. Pick up a Quran.

and go through and make reference to the verses that tell you not to be friends with Christians or Jews. And I started writing these verses and I had pages of them. And I was like, it was like a jigsaw just fell into place. Everything I've seen growing up, the Muslim playground.

The Muslim dinner tour. The friends who side with them. Well, they're taught from a little age. Supremacy. They're taught not to be friends with us. They can't be friends with us. 70% of this book talks about us. How they need to treat us. So as I'm reading it...

I started making sense of it. And that was my, and I didn't stop after that, if I'm honest. I didn't stop learning. And then when I got out of jail, I thought, right, many people watching this probably just think Jesus is like Mohammed. Mohammed is like Jesus. Two prophets, two alleged prophets.

Right. They're nothing like each other. Because I took the biography of Mohammed by Ibn Ishtak. So I like to go to the sources, the most recognised and renowned sources in the Islamic world. So again, not Tommy Robinson's opinion. This is not my story. This is the Islamic scholars of history, the best ones there are, of their life of Muhammad. So I started reading Life of Muhammad. And I read it. Jewish tribe surrender.

And this is why it's important so people understand how important scripture is. Do you remember the Peshawar school attacks? I don't, no. In Pakistan. So the Taliban, or Al-Qaeda, one of the two, they attacked a school and there was outrage about it.

But what they did when they attacked school is they pulled the pants down of all the kids. And anyone who started puberty was killed and beheaded. And anyone who hadn't was sacrificed as war booty. Well, that's exactly what Mohammed did. This is why scripture is important. So the Jewish tribe surrendered. Now, when they surrender, Mohammed tortures Qanaanah, he's the leader of the Jewish tribe, setting fire to his stomach to rob his gold. What sort of prophet is this? I'm thinking...

What sort of man is this? Jesus says, turn the other cheek. Mohammed's torturing and burning people and robbing them, yeah? So he's robbing them. And then after robbing them, he takes that noi, Sophia, so anyone, any Muslims, and when I have this conversation with Muslims, I don't even know about this. Half of them, yeah? I said...

He took the man's wife that night and married her. Now, here's the two different worldviews. I see that as raping the man's wife that night. Other Muslims have said, well, no, he saved her from a life of slavery from all the other men raping her because he took her. He was actually really good because he saved her.

What? But anyway, he beheads these people. He does this. And I started going through his life. And he walks past another Muslim at another point. And this is all in scripture. And he says, have you deroged her? He's not about another slave. He said, no, give her air.

So then I started understanding, and I started finding verses in here, there's four, that say, outside of the four wives, what Mohammed tells you, is you can take non-Muslim women as sexual slaves. And you'll blame, one of the verses says you're actually blameless. So I think, well...

Rotherham, Telford, all these towns and cities, are they taking non-Muslim with sexual slaves? Now, this is not confusing. Boko Haram's leader, when they took the girls in Nigeria, come out and said, Mohammed has commanded us to do this. Well, he has. Read the scripture. Al-Qaeda... ISIS, what did they do to the Yazidi? This is not made up. There's not 30, 40 different terrorist groups all singing off the same hymns here. This is a problem. And again, it's great that the majority of Muslims...

Don't read this and take it literally. That's great. But the problem's coming from this. And I tried to have this conversation with Piers Morgan. We'll get on to him. I tried to. I tried to have this conversation. So what I've done, as I learned and learned more, I then learned about Islam. I learned about Muhammad.

I think we need to understand who Mohammed was. If we've got four million British Muslims now who think Mohammed was perfect and Mohammed married a six-year-old girl and he raped them when she was nine, we're going to have a problem. If Mohammed beheaded and took sexual slaves, we're going to have a problem.

If Mohammed taught all this, in the Quran, 7% of Mein Kampf is due hatred. 7%. 11% of that book. Mein Kampf is banned. This isn't banned. This is taught across the whole country. Now, you're not even allowed to have this conversation. Well, you are. We're having this conversation. We're having it, but Labour government want to bring in Islamophobia laws that would prevent us even having this conversation. And you say you allowed it with...

We've come a long way. You are now. This is fair. Look, this is why I wanted to ask you about this, Tommy, because... I don't know exactly what I think about it. I just want to hear your opinion, because you've been talking about this for a very long time, and I think you have been, I was going to say demonized, and I think it's probably the correct term. You have been demonized for talking about it.

But I also think as the nature of what has been happening in this country is coming out, that I know just speaking to lots of people, these are people who are not going to be on the streets in a riot. These are people who are sitting in TV studios and they're doing...

you know, comedy, and they're doing journalism, and they're doing politics, and none of them will ever say anything publicly. But there are a lot of people now who are going, you know what, Tommy's been saying a lot of things that have been proven correct. So that's just where we're at.

people can pretend that's not happening that is what's happening right but what i'm trying to understand is what it is that you're saying because one of the things that i don't understand genuinely don't understand is where we go from here, right? What is it that you think we ought to do? Because what you're saying, correct me if any of this is not your view, right? What you're really saying is Islamic doctrine is divisive.

and hateful towards non-Muslims and it is about domination, right? And it's incompatible with Western freedom and democracy. And it's incompatible with Western freedom and democracy. Which is where I think a lot of people's concern with that message is for the simple reason of like, what do we do? That's the point. Is that a fair question? If we accept this, if you accept we're right, what the hell are you going to do? Right. Because you've got four million Muslims here.

And not just got four million Muslims, but you've got Saudi and Qatar own half the capital city. The money is embedded in the nation. Qatar has spent three quarters of a billion pounds. Qatar houses Hamas. Qatar has spent three quarters of a billion pounds radicalizing Muslims across Europe.

They've messed up the whole of France. To be fair, Tommy, Qatar and Saudi are two very different states. Yeah, they are, because Saudi actually, Saudi under the new king, are actually becoming quite progressive and actually trying to deal with some of these... And the UAE. And the UAE. And the UAE, yeah.

This is another part of the discussion, which is really, I think, really important. And you keep saying that, and I think it's important to emphasize. I've come back from Uzbekistan a couple of months ago, and I grew up in Uzbekistan. Soviet Muslim country, right? They don't have a problem with this shit.

They don't have grooming gangs. They don't have extremists. The extremists they have all leave because they make life intolerable for them, right? UAE, Saudi Arabia, a lot of Muslim countries are actually much better at dealing with Islamic extremism than we are.

There's a reason for that as well. There's a reason for it. So UAE, Saudi, they ban all these extremist groups. Muslim Brotherhood, not allowed to operate. We actually give home to these groups because it supported British foreign policy. with the with the war in afghanistan with the soviet we wanted a measure

We funded the Masurati. The Americans did. The Americans and us. We gave home to their leaders in Europe. We allowed them to grow, foster, and all of a sudden, Boris Johnson put it on here. This is Boris Johnson. Remember what it says in the Holy Quran.

Slay the unbelievers wherever you can find them. We will perform jihad against the kafar, the unbelievers. That was in Boris Johnson's book, 72 Virgins. So he knows what Islam is. But then when he comes in power, he totally pretends he doesn't. He fully gets it. And why does he do that? There's many that understand it. Boris Johnson's one of them. Yeah, but he's a coward.

And he took a different line. So when we say, what are we going to do? And most of these countries come down hard, but we didn't. We gave home. The Muslim Brotherhood have got offices in our capital cities. It's like they wouldn't be allowed to operate in the UAE or Saudi Arabia. No. Now, Saudi Arabia...

that you can't give any homage to Hezbollah, Hamas, these terrorist groups. And look at what's happened in Iran. But I think most people in our country need to understand how quickly a country can change. Look what happened to Iran. under the Ayatollah. Look at the Islamic Revolution. They went from freedom, loving...

Women walking around miniskirts. And I remember there's videos of them laughing in halls when they say women will have to wear a hijab. Now you get killed if you don't. And that happened quick. So the question always is... What do we do? What do we do? Because as you say, there are lots of Muslims in this country who are great...

Like the stereotypical grooming gang perpetrator is like a taxi driver, right? I've said this before. The taxi driver that drives my wife and son around when they need to go somewhere is an Afghan man. I will trust no one more than him to take care of my wife and son because they're really good people, middle class family, wonderful people. Right. So there are millions of Muslims in this country, actually, who are not in any way a threat or a problem. Right. Is that fair?

That's fair, but there's millions that are. Here's the problem. I don't know. Well, you think there's millions of them? 23% want Sharia law in this country. It's well over a million that are a problem. They need to leave. Okay. I would say how much of this is culture? Like we know, for instance, with the grooming gangs, they come, the vast majority of them come from a very specific region in Pakistan and Kashmir. So how much of that is?

a cultural issue, and how much of that is Islam? Because we also need to separate that. Well, there's lots of Sikhs in this country who come from Kashmir. They're not raping kids. But there's also Armanis and Saudis in this country are not raping kids either. No, they're not. If you look at the gangs, and I've done the demographics of the gangs, Somali, Afghani...

Iraqi, yes, the vast majority are Pakistani, you know, the vast majority, because the vast majority of Muslims in the UK are Pakistani. That's it. Now, if we look at, it's Moroccans who are doing it in Holland. There was a film called Loverboy created in 2007, and our pathetic country didn't allow it to be played in our schools. They clamped down because it was racist, yeah? Now, that film was an educational film to be played to children to educate them on the Loverboy.

boy techniques? Grooming, right? 2007, how many kids could have been saved? But because of racism, and if we just rewind a little bit, just to make one clarification. When I set up the English Defence League, as a street protest movement on the street, what would you want? Because we had a lesbian and gay division.

We had a Jewish division. We had a Hindu division. We made it very clear of who we were and what our mission statement was. Do you know the Scotland Yard have a metropolitan domestic extremism unit? And the head of that unit...

come out and made a statement saying the English Defence League are not far right. So although everyone now believes the English Defence League was a far right movement, that's because the media told you 10,000 times it was far right. So it becomes far right. Same as me. But it wasn't. There were problems with it.

It attracted the brave and the strange and the dangerous at times. But fast forward to where we are. What do we do if you accept this problem? And that's this where the government just buried a head. And what do we do? Well, you need to start addressing it. You really need to address it. And what we're seeing now, the swing across the whole of Europe.

I've been saying it for years. When the cat's out of the bag, which it is now, the bubbles burst, the dam's broke. The country's awake. Everyone can see it. This ain't going away. So to keep on what Kiyosama tried to do. After the riots, after Southport, which again, people talk about, you know, like you said, there was a worry about me because there's an element of violence at times. That's just me defending myself. If you listen to my message, do you know after Lee Rigby's attack?

After Lee would be beheaded someone, I stood to 10,000 English Defensive League supporters in Newcastle. My speech said, there's 600 Muslims serving in the British Armed Forces. They're doing a hell of a lot more for this country than we are.

If you abuse a Muslim woman walking down the street, you're a coward. You smash up a mosque, you're a moron. So my message has always been this. Now that doesn't excuse that there's elements, there's been problems because there's... a level of aggression and anger in this country, which has been simmered and underneath and boiling.

for decades. And at times it's come up. So how do you do that? You need to harness it and channel it. When the riots went in the Southport, I made it very clear. I made videos. And the reason why I made videos is because I was worried for those young men. Yeah? Because I understand their anger. Because...

20 years ago, I put on a balaclava. I run through the streets of Luton. So I get what you're doing, but there's a better way than that. Which is what? Which is, I remember making a video saying, where are the men?

Get those kids' masks off their faces because they're all kids. When I was watching the trouble going on, they're just young kids. They're going to ruin their whole lives. They're going to get put in jail. And they're angry. I believe they are justifiably angry. That's what I believe. That level of anger, if we look at where the protests were.

Hull, is it Hull or Hartlepool? Hartlepool or Hull, one of them. A Muslim man in the hotel, left the hotel and stabbed a pensioner to death for Gaza. I don't even know if people know about this, in a terrorist attack. He was in the hotel. There were trouble outside that hotel during the riots. Of course there was.

There was trouble outside the hotel in Tamworth during the riots because Mohammed left the hotel and raped an English woman who was walking home. Of course there was. In the last, there's been eight Muslim migrants in hotels who have raped women. There's been 25 sexually assaults against kids from migrants. in hotels this week there's been two 12 a 12 year old gap

raped by two Afghanis. There's been the attack in Warwickshire. There's been the sexual assault in Epping. And I challenge anyone to do this. Some of those cases, we have to say, for your benefit, Tom. Allegedly. I wouldn't like you to go to prison for something you said on here.

For people who don't understand British libel law, you have to say that until someone's been found guilty. Until they've been proven guilty, yeah. Right. But even Afghan, they put Libyan forces in a military base. They raped two men.

They make two men, yeah? Now, so all this is going on, right? We know it's going on. Everyone who lives in these towns and cities knows it's going on. The difference is this used to be confined to Luton. Right. And towns like Luton, yeah? Not anymore. It's in your village. So just... I...

There's a lot of the stuff you've just mentioned there that we've talked about ad nauseum on the show a lot, right? As you know, I'm first generation immigrant myself. I think illegal immigration is completely unacceptable.

And just shouldn't be happening. There shouldn't be boats coming over the channel. They should be turned around and taken back to France. Like, none of this should be happening. We shouldn't be putting people up in hotels at the taxpayer's expense. We should be, if you want to have asylum, you process them outside of the country. They could stop that like that.

Of course they could. And I think it's a balls problem. We don't know how to do it. We don't have the balls to do it, right? But they will have the balls when they see the public opinion. Exactly. But what I'm asking you is, for example, you mentioned 23% of Muslims in this country watch Sharia Law and you said they need to go, right? So what are you saying? If someone believes...

In Sharia law, we have to deport them. If someone wants to overthrow the democracy of this nation and replace it with a violent ideology, we need to deal with it. And most of these people, say, for example, there's 40,000 British Muslims or Muslims on the terrorist watch list. 40,000. Out of that 40,000, I think 50% of them hold dual nationality. And they've got to go.

Why are we following them? There's 3,000 of that 40,000 who are monitored 24 hours a day, seven days a week at a cost of £9 billion a year. Now, as the demographic changes, as the demographic changes in this country, we could deal with this.

these problems when it was one or two percent muslim population yeah if we get forward to where we're at now six seven percent and we look at the projected growth forecast of the islamic community when we get to 25 for say for example well that 40 000 is going to double or treble that's an army That's a problem. How do we afford it? Say Pakistani Muslims make up 3% of the British population. They're responsible for 33% of child defects.

Do you know how much that costs? Due to cousin marriage. Due to cousin marriage. 76% of Muslims in Bradford, Pakistani Muslims, marry their cousin. How much is that costing? Why are we tolerating this nonsense? Because Mohammed married his cousin. I don't care what Mohammed done 1,400 years ago. You're in Britain. Sort it out. We're not paying for it anymore.

Well, our country's struggling. Our people are struggling. Our own people on the streets. They're homeless. They're hungry. They can't heat their homes. And whilst this is all going on, you're spending how much on hotels of who? Men who are culturally impossible to integrate or...

late into this country. And that's just, and that's not being, and do you know what's mad here, which I think needs to come out, is Abu Halima, do you know Abu Halima? Sorry, Abu, I'm going to talk about you. Abu Halima was on the documentary called The Jihadi Next Door. He's one of the country's most...

Biggest Javi terrorists. After the Salman Abdi attack in Manchester, I started looking at Manchester. And I saw the Muslim population went from 25,000 to 50,000 in 10 years. The next 10 years, it went from 50,000 to 100,000. What's going to happen 10 years later? Another 10 years. Manchester's gone.

That's the reality of it. We are walking into a ticking time bomb and no one's addressing it. No one's talking about it. Nigel Farage even said, I'm not bothered about demographic change. You need to be, mate.

You need to be. Because as these problems progress and they get bigger and bigger and bigger, how do we deal with it? But anyway, Abu Halima, so I'm messaging him. I get a message just from going to jail when I was arrested on terrorism charges, which I've got a court case coming up for. And he messages saying, Tommy...

I've been watching what's going on with you. Do you want to know what's happening? I said, who's that? He goes, Abu Halima, do you remember me? You come to my house. So after the terrorist attack with Salman Abadi, I looked up the country's most feared terrorists or the biggest jihadists. And I thought, right, where are they?

So I went to Abu Halima's house in Northampton. He's four doors up from a school. So if he wants to get a knife, bear in mind what they'd just done, if he wants to, no one's stopping him. He's next door to the school. Whose kids are in that school? They're ours. Not Amber Rudd at the time. Not Amber Heard. she was home secretary her kids ain't in that school ours are yeah so i went to his school please come and um so he said you remember you come to my you come to my house to me

So I replied saying, you're still a little jihadi, are you? And he said, no, I'm not, Tommy. And it surprised me. I said, what do you mean you're not? He said, I'm still a Muslim. I don't believe any of that madness anymore. And I went, OK. He goes, what they're going to do with you now under terrorism legislation is what they've done with all of us. So we've all been silenced. We're not allowed to talk. We're not allowed to do this, blah, blah, blah.

So I'm going back and forth with him in this conversation, trying to get a sit down with him like this so the public can hear this conversation. He said, do you know the biggest threat to Britain, Tommy? I said, what? He said, the boat people.

Is this the country's biggest jihadist? He's telling me the boat people. He said, what's happening to British people's houses? What's happening to the British people born here? So I think so many people from immigrant background and even Islamic background are looking at what's going on going, what the hell is going on?

What the hell is going on? Everyone's too scared to talk about it. And the government, Keir Sama, so when the riots happened, well, as soon as they mentioned English Defence League, bearing in mind, I left English Defence League in 2015. It's been redundant since then. There's no English Defence League.

I saw Sadiq Khan talking about it this week. It's like, mate, it's been gone a decade. What are you talking about? You're trying to dig up this old ghost. And you dig it up for your own political benefit. And the reason being that rather than Keir Starmer and the Labour government say...

People are angry in every town in the city, which is, is it Friday today? No? Thursday. Thursday. So tomorrow there's, no, there's 14 protests in different cities, yeah? It's coming, okay? Things are, this problem's not going away for the governments. So as this is going on...

Keir Starmer, rather than say the public are angry, far right, English Defence League, everyone's a racist and not just that. What we're going to do is we're going to get the courts and we're going to scare the hell out of you. And they thought it would work. And it didn't work, did it?

Because people are coming back. So when people say about me and my element, I have held three huge rallies now called Unite the Kingdom. I learned a lot. Leading the English Defence League, held 80 national demonstrations. I learned when there's problems.

I'll be honest, there's demonstrations going on this Friday night. I don't think that's a good idea. I wouldn't organise a demonstration on Friday night. You're going to get people drinking. You're going to get people when it turns dark. If you look at all the demonstrations we organise, they're early. They're away from pubs.

and we make sure it's over at an early time to stop these elements. And the reason being, the government want that. They want you wearing a mask. Take off your mask. Don't... Don't wear a balaclava. Because what you do by doing that, if you allow it, which we don't allow, if you allow that, you're allowing infiltration. When those riots happened last Southport, if you look at the Sunderland riot, where they burnt the police station...

It's 10 men wearing fully black. That's the gut. I'm telling you, look up special demonstration squad. The government have squads, police squads. We've seen it on January 6th in America, the FBI. They have squads which infiltrate legitimate protests.

And this may sound like a conspiracy theory 10 years ago. I watched it with the English Defence League. I know how they operate. I watched what they've done. They provoke trouble. They have the media waiting to take pictures. What did they just do last week in... in Epping. They bust in, the police brought in protesters to provoke reaction to then label the innocent families and scared families who want to protect their daughters as far-right thugs.

I know what they do. So we made it impossible in our meetings with the police. I come back after being, I was censored. I was deleted. I was invisible for five years. Elon Musk, 2023, four, gives me back my... Social media. I come back to the UK. I was exiled, pretty much. I wasn't in a good place. I'd obviously made this film that I recently went to jail for. I was too scared to release it. I didn't want to go to prison.

I come back to the UK and we start organising rallies, and our rallies, under this banner, Unite the Kingdom, is about uniting Britain. And it's about uniting... Do you know what's sad, which is a worrying situation, which we should be worried about, is as this progresses, as in... Terrorism, attacks, rapes. There's a problem coming from a section of immigration into the country. That's my view. And it's Islamic immigration. What's happening now is there's a rise in ethno-nationalism.

There's a rise in anti-immigrant sentiment. There's a rise in these groups that are growing. And there's a rise in people who don't understand or are just blaming everyone else. So our movement is saying, no, most migrants come to this country and they love embrace my mother, one of them.

They love, embrace and celebrate it. We want to bring them people together under one banner. And we want to do it in a joyful manner and a celebration manner where we focus on our identity as British people, not a white identity as British people.

Everyone who wants to be part under that banner, come along. And we've held free rallies. And the last one I've done was Trafalgar, July 27th. 100,000 people, not one arrest. In each of these events, and do you know how our relationships change with the police? It's insane, really.

Any patriotic rally was met with violence with the police up until 18 months ago. When I had my first sit down with the police, and unfortunately, again, I've learned you have to deal with the police and the government in a certain way. When I sat down for my first meeting with the police, I said, I'm going to tell you what we're going to do, yeah? I could, if I wanted to, lads, bearing in mind these Hamas rallies, if I want to, I can organise a protest.

on Tower Bridge in London, on the same day and same time as they do theirs. And we can have a confrontation with the Hamas radicals. We don't want to. What we want is a family event in Parliament, outside Parliament. with music, celebration. So let us do what we want. Stay the hell away. We will police ourselves. We will not allow us face coverings, not allow us alcohol. We will monitor our own supporters. And if there's a problem with our supporters, tell us.

And we'll deal with them. Because you coming in, mob-handed, with crash helmets and right gear, just don't wear right gear. Stay away. We'll work with you in any way. If Antifa and left-wing extremists are here, we'll change our location and we'll start here.

We just want to have a peaceful day. And that worked with the police. And in the end, we're clapping the police because, and to any of the people organizing demonstrations now at hotels, you have to liaise with the police. Because if you don't liaise with the police, then you'll see conditions coming in. where you can't go down this road, can't go down that road. And when those conditions come in, you'll then get riot police blocking the road. You'll then have a clash of people.

So I've learned a lot. I know how these demonstrations work. I know how to liaise and negotiate with the police. And even, you know, again... It's a sad state of affairs, but the English Defence League, do you remember, they were opening a mosque in Luton Island Down Centre, and I went down to the shopping centre, 2013, and I met with the owners of the shopping centre.

And just basically said, I'm going to tell you what happens here. I went to the bakery, which was Robbie's family bakery. It's been there 40 years. I went to the Muslim restaurant next door and spoke to the Turks. I said, what do you think about the mosque opening there? And they said, we don't need a mosque here.

We don't need... And this is the Muslims. They said, if you put a mosque there, it's going to be 100 men outside our shop. So I went for all this. So I said to the shopping centre, if you open a mosque there, I'm going to shut down the shopping centre. When the English Fence League come and demonstrate, it costs...

500,000 to a million pounds, please. And you will board up your shopping centre. That's what's going to happen. I'm just letting you know. We don't want to do this. You need to listen to the shops here and what they want. It worked. They cancelled the mosque. By then, they opened up toilets in Burnley. Burnley or...

One of the northern towns. And the toilets were a hole in the ground in the shopping centre, like a Saudi toilet. I rang the shopping centre, said, you've got two weeks. Changed the toilet. Now, this isn't good, but at the time, I knew what worked. When 364 councils I wrote a letter to, you can Google this, and it was Christmas, and six...

councils changed the name of Christmas. They took the word Christ out of it and they called it Winter Illuminations Winter Festival. So I sent 364 letters off personally to the councils and said, I'm warning you, as the English Defence League, we're going to hit your city.

If you change the name of Christmas. And it all went in the news that we were blackmailing the council. So I said, well, I'm just warning them. We don't want to come to your city, but we will. Now, they all listened. The next year, not one single council took the word Christ out of it.

And do you know what's upsetting? When I had meetings with Muslims about this with the English French League, Muslims don't care if we celebrate Christmas. This is some liberal joke in a council making a decision... for community cohesion, which doesn't work for communication. You're actually causing resentment. So I learned very quickly that, unfortunately, when you have a bit of power like the Islamic leaders have, you can threaten things.

And it gets done what you want. But I think we've now reached a point, Tommy, where things are febrile, to put it mildly. What's that mean? Febrile means if... It's like it's going to boil over. It's a powder keg. It's where we are, unfortunately. You can admit it or you can't. So do you think what we do, and for people who are concerned about this...

is that people need to have peaceful demonstrations. There need to be activists. There needs to be people talking about this in a calm and respectful manner. Totally. I think that, again, which is what we're planning on doing September 13th.

I think we're going to have half a million to a million people. I think it's going to be the biggest patriot gathering this country has ever seen. And our diversity of our crowd and the demographic of our support base has totally changed. It's mainstream. Whereas they had us...

as a fringe element. They had us, yeah? And they had control of social media. Remember, we were banned from every social media. So when they had control, they could tell everyone who we are. Then now people can see our videos ourselves. They can see what our events are like. They can see what the gathering's like.

I'm worried, and I think the government should be worried, and the country should be worried, about the mood of the nation. Because the mood of the nation is people aren't enough. People aren't going to be silenced anymore. When people, when you take away the freedom... of an English man or woman's children to walk the street, which is what happened in Epping.

They can't walk down the street in their school uniform. When you take that away, what do you expect is going to happen? And that's mirrored across every town and city in a minute. So if you ask the British public how they're feeling on safety, they don't feel safe.

And whilst you don't feel safe, what Keir Starmer should have done after Southport is they should have come out as a government and said, we're listening, we understand, we understand the anger, right? Let's try and work together to stop this. But they didn't do that. They say, you're all racist, shut up. And what that's led to is where we're at now, 12 months later.

You put a load of people in jail, you let criminals out, you locked up patriots, you murdered Peter Lynch, Lucy Conley still... Some of them were, some of them were racist and there were riots which were unacceptable. Some of them were, but there were also Muslims writing along the street. Agreed, agreed. And none of that was on the mainstream media.

Keir Starmer didn't mention it. Keir Starmer said, we're going to protect you, the Muslim community. It's like, well, no, no, hold on. It's our daughters who have been raped in every town of the city. Why are you going to protect us? It's our daughters in every town of the city who are being gang raped, not Muslim girls. There's not one. Find me a case, anyone, of a group of non-Muslims raping a Muslim. Find me one case. Because the fact is there's hundreds of thousands across this country.

And when you even try and talk about it or get angry about it, you just need to shut up. You're all far right or you're all racist. Well, that doesn't wash anymore. That's not going to wash. People have had enough. People don't remain silent. But what's happening now is it's organic, which is good.

I said I was going to go Epping the other week, didn't I? Yeah. Wrong move for me. Wrong move for the people of Epping. Because if I went there, it's all about me. And it gives the government and the council and all the opposition the chance to diminish. the local community's fears, which is what they've done after the riots. They put them under the bracket of far-right, bracket of Tommy Robinson. They blamed me for the riots. They blamed me.

I was called in for peace, calm and non-violence, and they made out that I was the instigator of riots across the country when I wasn't even here. But I think that most people are sitting where we're sitting, as in something big is happening here. When I say the country's primed for evolution, it is. The mood of this nation, I've just, you know, down the end of the year, there's a petrol station with the Greggs. I had two people come up to me in that Greggs who were talking about September 13th.

the level of feeling this country

and the emotion and passion and fear that the public are having. When I see people, I remember I've gone through this for 15 years. I've gone from being spat at, to being punched, to being hugged, to being embraced, to have my hand shaken. And that... process is now where the country's at, where they're going to look, when the public realise the state of our nation, the safety of their children, the absolute destruction of our culture, our identity and our future.

When they realise they're going to look at who's to blame. And they're going to look to the politicians and they're going to look to the journalists. They're going to look at who lied and they're going to look at who told the truth. And that's why even, I'm going to talk about Katie Hopkins. Katie Hopkins had to flee Britain four years ago.

She was hated. She now comes back. I walk the streets with her. She gets a hero's reception. Because people see that some people, and it doesn't mean anyone's perfect. Same with me. It means I've made mistakes. People accept my flaws. But we told the truth. We stood on principle and continued, regardless of their threats, their intimidation, their silence. And I don't blame people who are sitting out there who are scared to talk.

You should be scared to talk because we don't have free speech. How many people do you hear say we live in a free country? No one anymore. Everyone knows we don't. They're locking you up. I haven't heard that phrase for years. I remember when I came to this country, I was a boy, right?

That's what I thought. That's what I thought Britain was. That's what I thought the West was. And people would use that phrase. In fact, I remember kids would tease me for being Russian, right? And I'd be like, shut up. And they'd be like, it's a free country. No one says it anymore. No way. No, not just anyone say it. You see what you just said. I, up until 2009, when I started my activism, I thought I lived in a country with free speech. And then I realised, well, this country doesn't exist.

And I'll give you an example. You know, I was just arrested for this GBH Section 18 to do with the gentleman. When I was arrested, I was detained and questioned and arrested for three tweets. One of the tweets I was arrested for was sharing a Daily Mail article.

Now, what they said is, they said, are you, they're basically trying to say, have you got qualifications as mainstream journalism? So I said, no. And then, so my solicitor said, well, all he's done is share what the Daily Mail said. And then they said, the Daily Mail protected because... recognized media are protected by this law, you're not. So it's like, well, I've shared something that's factual from the Daily Mail, but you're going to arrest me for it.

And they arrested me for that, and also sharing a Palestinian flag that said, fuck Hamas, fuck Palestine, fuck Islam. And I shared it and just said this. I've been arrested for that. We don't live in a free country. Now, I wouldn't mind, but they weren't arresting people who were calling for jihad.

This two-tier level of policing, they're not arresting. It's like hate speech laws are not there to prevent hate. They're there to shut us up. And one level's being shut up and the other level get amplified opportunity to promote their hate and intolerance. If we had... If they want to implement real hate speech laws, this would be banned. The command will be banned tomorrow because there's 100 verses in there that call for violence. Lots of books will be banned. You can buy Mein Kampf.

But that's banned. Okay, you can buy Mein Kampf. I thought you were going to pull it out there, Tommy. You can buy Mein Kampf, but these three books are banned by Amazon, yeah? This is just my life story. This is a... This is not my opinion. This is the Koran. And what this Koran does, do you know the term Islam is a religion of peace? I have heard that. Yes. But no one had ever said it until George W. Bush. We sat for months.

trying to find, historically, figures, military, religious, political, that ever said Islam was religion and peace. And all you'll find is Islamic leaders saying, no, it's a war manual. It's warrior manual. So that lie... which was told by George W. Bush, is now just repeated as some sort of fact. But these books were banned by Amazon. As you just said, you can buy Hitler's book. So how can you ban? There's nothing hatred in these.

But you're literally burning books now and you're burning books that challenge your your failures again. And what is what is the demographical change to this nation and what does it look like? So as anyone watching this, OK, five, six percent in the country are from the Islamic background. Look at the mayhem. From 5%, 6%. What do you actually think it's going to be like at 20%? This isn't fear-mongering.

We've got a duty as English men and women to protect this country and protect our kids. And everyone's seen what's happened since October 7th. It's accelerated. Well, what are we going to do? Because unfortunately, a lot of the groups that were for harmony are actually calling for the obliteration of an entire state of people. And people have seen it now. There's no smoke screens. People can see the hate. And it's not a minority. It's mainstreamed.

And unfortunately, that mainstream hate is coming from the left and the liberal left, along with an Islamist alliance, which we've seen this alliance before. We've seen it in Iran. We've seen where the communists and the Marxists joined along with the Islamists to overthrow and topple the... topple the country, and the first thing that the Islamists done is kill them. So we've seen it, and I just think that, you know, as a generation of British men, are we really scared to talk about this shit?

Are we actually going to remain silent and look at our country and see that there's a thousand years of Christian history in this country, over 1800 years Christianity has been in Britain, but a thousand years of England. We're going to let, in 70 years, spineless, corrupt, globalist politicians import medieval backward cultures into this country and allow them to grow dominant and superior to us? That's what we're seeing. Luton is a blueprint for every town and city.

You can ignore it because you think it's Luton, but it's your town tomorrow. And the demographical change and the growth in this nation shows that. So yes, you made the comment earlier about your taxi driver, who's probably a lovely man. I bet a lot of Germans were lovely. Join the war.

I bet loads of them were lovely. It doesn't stop the dangers of Nazism. What we see with Islam, not Muslims, again, people don't understand. So if I criticise the Bible or Jesus, it doesn't mean I hate Christians, does it? Doesn't mean I hate every person that follows it. So separate the two. Muslims are people. If you speak hatred against Muslims, it's bad. You entice or encourage violence against Muslims, totally wrong.

Your God-given right is to look at this book as an Englishman and say, what does this bring? It's a book. It's my right to look at Mohammed's life and say, having sex with children is pretty wrong, though.

You're not really a moral compass that we should be following. In fact, we shouldn't just be following you. Do you know my local politician, Gavin Sucor, he was a Labour politician and at the height of the English Defence League, I'd never met him and there was a chicken shop in Luton and he was in there. So I walked in and said, all right.

All right, Gavin, yeah, you held a Celebrate Muhammad Day at Parliament. He said, yeah. I said, what do you know about Muhammad? What do you actually know about him? He goes, well, no, Muslims respect him. I said, OK, well, Nazis respect Hitler.

We'll celebrate Hitler, shall we? What do you know about him? And he's just looked gobsmacked. You don't know anything, do you? You don't know anything about him. Yet here you are pandering. It's like Jess Phillips basically sitting on her knees in a mosque. It's mental. The level of absurdity, appeasement, cowardice from those politicians. We've got 650 politicians in Parliament and not one of them spoke about Islam.

Since Churchill and Gladstone, no one in that House of Parliament, bearing in mind the jihad attacks, think about Manchester, think about 7-7, think about Lee Rigby, we've had all these attacks. But it's worse than that, man. It's worse than that.

One of their colleagues was killed by an Islamist, Sir David Ames. Do you remember this? Yeah, but the public probably don't even know who he is. Because all the MPs stood up. Do you remember what they talked about in the House of Commons? Probably Islamophobia. No, they talked about online hate.

We got a crackdown on it. Their colleague has just been murdered by an Islamist. A Somalian jihadist, wasn't he? Right. Murdered by an Islamist in a surgery, in a constituency surgery, i.e. the thing that they all go and do. And his family is still trying to fight. His poor family is still trying to fight. His daughter. His daughter is still trying to fight against a system that, do you know why they can't have that conversation again? I can tell you why, because I've speak to them.

They're all terrified. And by the way, like you said, they're not wrong. They're not wrong to be terrified. The problem is they're terrified, but we're not anymore. I don't think the public is terrified anymore. The public are not terrified anymore. It's like, oh, you put us in prison. Well, that didn't work, did it, mate? You know what I mean? That doesn't work.

OK, that doesn't work. And it doesn't work because once there's a reality that the country is at stake, that the entire Christian nation, that the entire population and culture and identity and children's future is at stake, we don't care about you putting us in jail. Yeah, because, and these are an argument I had with my ex-wife so many times. She's like, just shut up, what about the kids? I said, this ain't about the kids.

What about their kids? I mean, it is about the kids. Yeah, it is. But what I mean is, she's like, just shut up to make sure our kids have a... I said, okay, but what about when they have kids? Yeah. Yeah? And they're a minority. I know what it's like to be a minority in Islam. I've seen it my whole life.

I know it's like, go ask the Christians in Afghanistan. Go ask the Christians in Iraq. Go ask them in Syria right now. Go and ask the Druze. Go and ask them. What's happening? You can't because they're fucking dead. And they're all dead or getting killed. And the thing to remember about this is, you know, we say these names, but these victims are real. I knew, said David Amos. He's a big West Ham fan.

I met him a few times at West Ham. He was a lovely man. And nothing changed after his death. Yeah, he was a fantastic MP and he was a wonderful constituency MP. He was murdered. I remember I was in shock. I didn't know him that much. I met him two or three times, but he was a lovely man, had lunch with him. And then I just saw people, just his colleagues. He gets murdered. We've got to stop Tommy Robinson. Well, they talk about online hate. And I'm just going.

This is cowardice of the worst sort, of the worst sort. An innocent man dies who is your friend and colleague and you do nothing. That is an abdication of responsibility. I've never actually spoken about this, but... it made me feel physically sick. It made me feel physically sick. And it actually changed a lot of my opinions because I saw firsthand the cowardice because it's very different when you've never met, you know, you say names.

And there's a part of you that finds it, you can empathise, but you can't sympathise because you're not there. But when he was murdered, and bear in mind... This was just someone I used to sit with and have the occasional lunch with two or three times and we'd talk about West Ham. And he'd tell me about the glory days of, you know, the 1970s of West Ham and, you know, Billy Bonds and all this.

And then I saw, like, the way they just didn't even talk about him. Do you know that feeling you're feeling, yeah? In every town and city, that's our daughters.

So these attacks, these rapes, and I'll explain, there was a Tom Costello, he got the best grades, he went to a private school, got the best grades at Oxford University, and he's a journalist, and he'd done a documentary with me. And he'd come and spend, I said, come and spend time with me in Luton, we're at the local estate and we're at the pub.

And when you walk anywhere out here, everyone knows each other. So everyone's hugging, embracing. And when we sat down, he goes, I haven't got this. I've never had this. I said, what? He goes, the community. You all know each other. Everyone loves each other. Everyone's hugging. Because he's gone to private school. Then he's gone to university.

And then he's gone to a new town. He doesn't know everyone. I said, so you see what you've just seen there, Tom? He said, yeah. I said, so say when Sarah is raped by migrants, do you understand how all of us are feeling it? Yeah. Do you get how we're all fucking raging about this? So that sense of feeling when we talk about the moral cowardice, let's look at Piers Morgan, for example. Piers Morgan was in charge of Daily Mirror. Are we going to pretend that he didn't know about grooming gangs?

Are we going to pretend the head of Daily Mirror, at the height of the grooming scandal, we know Andrew Norfolk knew because he says he knew. We know the government knew. We know politicians knew. We know the police knew. Let's not... Piers Morgan knew. They all knew. And what did they do? They shut us down.

They shut down the debate trying to be morally virtue for everyone. Like, we're not like this. It's like most people now. I look at the same people who shut me down now are all trying to be as loud as they can about what happened to the victims. It's like...

You knew what was happening. You're trying to rewrite history here. These people, you're trying to rewrite history. You knew. Certainly Piers Morgan, the head of a media outlet, knew. I understand how some people in different backgrounds and living in different towns and cities or villages were not aware, but everyone in our towns knew. We all knew. So that feeling you get there, and I've had, I just, so people say, I've got to know survivors, families.

I look at some of them. I look at Sammy Woodhouse. Have you had Sammy on? No, not yet. You should get her on because I look at her. We've had a number of survivors. But I look at her and think, how the hell? She stayed in Rotherham. Have you had Marge Mia on? The Muslim lad from Oldham? No. Oh, mate, he's like a warrior. He's Pakistani. He's like a warrior. Because I know what it's like trying to talk about these issues. And I'm a man.

And as you said, I don't mind a punch-up. I'm a man, but I'm not really up for backing down to them. But I look at some people like that. Sammy Woodhouse, single parent. taking on the Rotherham gangs, still staying live in the same area, the threats she must have faced, the threats her family must have faced. I look at Raj Meir and he's in the community and he's exposing all of them. He's exposing all the corruption in Oldham Council from the Labour Party and the grooming gangs and everything.

So I look at these people and think none of them have had any recognition. None of them have had any support. None of them. None of them. Do you know what they've done? So there's a group called Seek Awareness Society.

You should have him on, Mohan Singh, yeah? So they're a charity. So when I started the English Defence League, we sort of formed a relationship with the Sikh community to try and, I'd say, understand each other. So there was racist attacks against Sikh schools down in Essex by young white kids shouting EDL.

I'd go down. They'd ring me and say, can you come down? There's problems with the kids. So I'd go down to the estate. There'd be 50 kids there. I'd walk over. They're like, Tommy Robinson. I said, what's going on with the school? And they said, they're all terrorists. I said, no, they're fucking terrorists.

They're the best immigrants this country's ever had, Sikhs. They're 88,000. It's education. I'm going through it with them. And then I spent time traveling around to Sikh temples and Hindu temples, watching their education program. They do an education. So they get all the girls and all the sisters and they hold a seminar. And they've been doing this for decades. And the women sit down and they show them how the grooming gangs operate. And I remember I spent...

A couple of years we were going around, and my mate pulled me out after, who was filming with us. He said, what do you think of this? I said, this is brilliant for the Sikhs, brilliant for the Hindus. Who's doing this for us?

Who's educating the white working class children and women and sisters and mothers on how to stop these gangs? You're not even allowed to have the conversation. Do you know how much criticism Seek Awareness faced? It was only until Rotherham. When Rotherham came out, a lot changed because then they realised we're telling the truth. They realised they're telling the truth.

But the Sikh awareness and these groups were seen as hostile because of India's problems. They thought it was just they didn't like the Islamic community. And then when all this grooming come out, the funding went to the Muslim community, to taxi companies, to report it. And it's like...

You're funding the same prop. They were the problem. So I just think the whole thing and just the emotion you saw, I could see there you're getting upset because it's someone you know. Yeah. I knew. You knew, yeah. We know these girls. Yeah. So that level of emotion, I'd say it's what drives me half the time because I think, no, no. Do you know these girls? I've done a five-part series called The Rape of Brim.

We're on to episode six. I'd love to be able to finish it without all this police nonsense. We're on to episode six. That five-part series, if anyone wants to watch it, go to trfilms.co.uk. We investigate the gangs. When we investigate the gangs, I sit down with 12 to 18 survivors, and we heard their story.

there's a team behind me, so I get the credit of the documentary, but there's a team of volunteers who, we've done a police-style investigation. As we started investigating, I'd sit down with a survivor, and I'd interview her for three hours, four hours, five hours, the team would. We'd then put it into a database, and we'd...

We got 254 names. And just so people haven't listened to my stories, you need to watch these films. You need to understand the scale of the problem. Telford has a 1.7% Muslim population. There's none there. That's why we picked that city. The police identified 1,000 victims in Telford, yeah, of the Muslim gangs. Five of them are dead, murdered, yeah? Five out of 1,000. We sat down with 12 to 18.

Out of those 12 to 18, we identified 254 names of rapists. The police investigation identified 200 rapists. They prosecuted 11. So when you see the trials going on, they're just like a little symbol. The police going, yeah, we stopped them in Telford, prosecuted 11.

What about the other 189 that raped? They're not getting prosecuted. Now, take the demographics of the Muslim community for Telford, get rid of the under-16s and get rid of those 70s. So let's get the men that fit the age bracket that could have been raping. There's only 1,000 men.

Out of that 1,000 men, the police identified 200 of them. We identified 250-odd. Then the independent inquiry, which wasn't statutory-powered, which if it had statutory power, it means that... So when you see this argument going on now with the government, and they're on about an...

doing an inquiry into the rape gangs, and the government won't give statutory power. So if the inquiry has statutory power, it means the police, the council, all of them, can be summons to court under oath and then ask the questions. The government, and this is where... The insanity. Sean Davies is the MP. Sean Davies is the MP for Telford. I watched him in Parliament recently talking about the need for this inquiry, statutory power. I've got a letter that he signed. He signed a letter.

to Amber Rudd. He signed a letter to block the inquiry. And now he's trying to rewrite history in Parliament. I figured, no, you blocked it. I've got ten of them. We call it the Telford Ten. Ten of them signed a letter, secretly, all Labour. all councillors, to block statutory power. So Telford had an inquiry that identified 1,000 victims. It had no power. So the councillor and the police just ignored it. They didn't give any evidence.

They just stood back. So the only way the solicitor has got the evidence with their inquiry was to sit the victims down like we've done, yeah? These investigations, if there's an investigation now, if there's a historic investigation in towns and cities, I think they've saved five or six to come forward, it has to have...

actually power, because no one can be exempt. Politicians need to tell the truth, and if they don't, then they're viable for jail. That's where we're going to get to the bottom of it. The reason why Labour won't do that...

Because Councillor Hussain in Rochdale went to court, Labour councillor went to court and gave a character reference for the rapist. The ex-mayor of Bolton, Muslim, went to court and gave a character reference for the rapist. They gave character references for the rapist. They didn't lose their job in Labour. They didn't lose their position. They accelerated.

What did Sarah Champion Troy speak about? They got rid of her. She said about the Pakistani gangs. They ousted her, replaced her in Nashar. who was on record sharing tweets saying that the children and the victims need to shut their mouths for the sake of diversity. There has been a cover up. Oldham, one of the men in charge of Labour Council for protecting kids, is in jail.

as one of the gang rapists. Councillor Jagler, this is the Rotherham case. Labour, he was the councillor. He was working with the gangs, all proven. Labour are in the middle of... These are... We've got somewhere, they used to call them Asian gang, Asian rape gangs. We got finally to Muslim rape gangs. They're trying to call them Pakistani. They're not. They're Muslim. We need to get to Labour's Muslim gangs because that's what they were.

Tommy, final question is always the same. What's the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be? Before Tommy answers the final question at the end of the interview, make sure you click the link in the description where you'll see this.

Through your journey, what has been the most bitter pill to swallow? What role do you think your social class and the way you express yourself plays in how elites and the political class have responded to you? Can you share any stories of growing up in Luton around Stacey Dooley and Andrew Tate? Yes. What's the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be? Demographics. By 2041, white British are a minority in Britain. That's not acceptable. It's just not acceptable.

Same way wouldn't be acceptable if black Nigerians become a minority in Nigeria. It's not acceptable, it's something we need to look at, we need to talk about massively, because no one wants to talk about it and we always hear it's a minority, it's a minority, it's a minority. No, it's not. Not anymore. And when it becomes a majority in towns and cities, the minority rights that protected them are not protecting our English kids. So it's not good.

So I think that the demographical change in towns and cities and the projected growth forecast birth rate accelerate. I see even Nigel Farge now saying he's going to get rid of the two cap for benefits. No, you need to keep the two cap for benefits. My local imam's got 14 kids with three wives.

I don't want to pay for that. And the Islamic community, if you look at the birth rate and the demographical change compared to the non... The black community, the Hindu community, the Sikh community, there's no explosion in demographical change. The explosion in demographical change in this country is Islamic.

birth rate and Islamic immigration. We either stop it now or we're going to be in a situation where we can't. So that now, we're running out of time. We're running out of time. I think we need direct democracy. By 2041, we lose them directly. Tommy, I'm not necessarily in disagreement with you, broadly speaking, but... To a lot of people, it will sound like there's quite a bit of inconsistency with what you're saying. On the one hand, you're saying, you know, black, white, Sikh, all great.

But then you're saying... I'm saying that England is historically a white nation. It is. They cannot become a minority in the white nation. And unless you talk about this, you leave it to the FNATs and the Nazis. Unless you address, because the majority of the public are worried by demographic change. The majority. It's not racist. It's not racist to say that England has to remain a majority white country. That's not racist. And exactly the same, like...

Japan should remain a majority Japanese nation. If it was changing, how come it's only Western nations that have to accept this sort of diversity? Nowhere else has to. So unless you actually have this conversation and actually address the general public fears, you leave the only people talking about this as ethno-nationalists. And ethno-nationalists are growing in number, growing in confidence.

And if they're the only people addressing this specific topic of a conversation, then you leave people to join them, listen to them. and be radicalised by them. But what I don't understand is what's the difference between their position and your position on this issue? You're kind of basically saying the same thing, aren't you? No, they're saying that non-whites need to be expelled from this country. All of them.

I'm saying that we need to address the Islamic demographic. I believe we need re-migration of many of the so-called fake asylum seekers because they're not asylum seekers. They've gone through 16 safe countries. They've come to this country. All the foreign nationals in prison, 12,000 of them, got to go. had your watch list, got to go. There's so many issues we should be doing. I'd stop the Qatari money. I'd stop the Iranian money. I'd stop it all. I'd stop the... And essentially, so...

Biggleswade, again, little example. Biggleswade is a town near Luton. There's Muslims there. There's no mosque. They're pretty well integrated. Pretty well integrated. No extremism. Yeah? There's no Saudi-funded or Qatari-funded or Wahhabi-funded or Salafi-funded mosque which is promoting this insanity to all of them from a young age. So I would love... I want freedom of speech for us. I want freedom for everyone. I want freedom for Muslims. They need to leave Islam.

Tommy, thank you very much. Thank you, guys. Make sure to head over to Subset, where we'll carry on the conversation with your questions. We had more questions for you than any guest in the history of the show. So there'll be a lot of content behind that paywall. So go on over there, subscribe, join our Substack, support the show, and you get to hear a good chunk of time with Tommy behind the paywall. See you there.

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