Hello. My name is Dori Robinson and this is tree speech a podcast where we strive to listen to the forest through the trees. This week's episode was written and recorded in Massachusetts on the native lands of the wabanaki Confederacy. Penacook, Massachusetts and Pawtucket people and a New York on the land of the Lenape tribe. Tribes tree speech is co-written and produced by Jonathan Zellner
who will be joining us today. This is the final episode of our season and we will begin with a discussion of to bishvat the Jewish New Year of the trees, which began last Sunday evening at Sunset. We thought this would be the perfect way to commemorate the close of our fourth season. And we will also discuss our thoughts on the guests, and topics that we've covered since we began. Can this current season last September.
It was absolutely delightful for me to be interviewed by our producer, Jonathan for this episode, and to discuss with him to bishvat and this season of trees. Let's listen. Hello to Dory. Hi Jonathan it's so nice to see you. I'm sitting in your seat. I'm not start as you usually do by saying, thank you for taking time out of your busy day to be with us. So happy that you're here to talk about to burst fats and die. I am excited to speak with you today.
Let's Jump Right In this. Feels like a celebratory episode, so let's start the festivities is celebratory. It's so it's so fun when when everyone gets to hear your voice when we get to have a conversation, let's start, then I'll just ask you for people who may not know what is tuba schwantz to bishvat, is a wonderful Jewish holiday, it's one of the minor holidays And it's known as the new year of the trees. It was originally for tithing
purposes. So, basically, in Judaism the law judaism's, and actually a very agriculturally driven Community much more so than sometimes we even realize, so the the laws, the agricultural laws say that you don't pick the fruit off the tree for the first three years of the trees life. And in the fourth year, you Bring a tithe or bring a bit to the at the time at the temple to feed the priests but also the
poor and such. And so the idea was how could you tell if it was the first three years or the fourth year? How could you tell you know, who's keeping track of every single tree and when you planted it and what counts as the birthday? And so, they came up with this idea of having the new year of the Trees of having two bishvat be the day that all the trees that had Been planted that year. That becomes their birthday. So that that's when you start counting their time in existence.
And that's because that's when the sap starts to come into the three itself. So as you know, I'm in New England. So it's a time that everything looks very Barren and you think nothing's going on. But as we know very well and when we've talked about a lot is that it's actually a lot of internal work is happening. So to bishvat started as a holiday about a ties, but then began to evolve in beside that the 15th or 16th century.
A lot of kabbalists in Israel decided to really investigate it and make it something even bigger. And so these kabbalists, these Mystics created a Seder for to bishvat to think about all the different kinds of fruits and all the different kinds of wine. Wine and all the different kinds of ways that we connect with nature.
So the Seder breaks into four different parts, and each part has a different kind of fruit, whether it's soft on the outside, with a pit on the inside, such as a date or an orange, that has a rind on the outside and soft on the inside and all the different ways that that helps us reflect on. When are we soft on the outside and hard on the inside? When I re hard on the outside? Outside and soft on the inside. So it's this really lovely satyr that many people.
Celebrate and now in modern day, it's more of our birthday or Arbor Day. So it's a day that Jewish communities plant trees or send money in order for trees to be planted where they're needed. So it's just about our continued connection to Nature and the environment. It's beautiful. It's very cold in New York City today. So, The idea that even though we're all bundled up, not looking at one another screwing around the streets that the sap is slowly coming into the trees
and that they are coming alive. Celebrating this Reaper, this new year, I've never attended a satyr. So could you tell us what that is, referring to what that looks like? And then, maybe go into, you had talked about the fruit, the hard, and the softness. And I'm not sure, also, exactly, That means as it applies to us. So I'd love to hear more about how this to bishvat is celebrated. Yeah, it's true.
It is really cold here. And I remember as a child when we were celebrating to bishvat and like synagogue and whatnot, and there were all these photos of Israel and date trees, and pomegranates, and all these warm things, and we're in February and were bundled up. And so it was always a very, very funny moment to eat fruits and nuts and Things that that aren't really accessible usually in February.
So the Seder was created in the 16th century by catalysts and Mystics and they really focused on imagery and symbolism meant to Mark, the Four Seasons and in kabbalistic or mystical Theory, everything's always broken into spheres. There's a lot of alignment with concepts of chakras and and these kind of things, they really go very deep and mystical. Yeah. Oh, it's beautiful. Um, the Seder is referring to, it's a meal. Is that right? Or it's so it's at a dinner table at Sunset which is
determined. Usually the rabbi's would say when you see three stars in the sky, that's when that's when it's officially Sunset because how could, how else can you tell? You know, it's about. Yes, yes, yes, in the pre-google world. How else are you to know? So you see the three stars? And then what happens? So seder means order, but it is referring to a meal. So the order of the meal has, there's lots of rituals that are in a specific order to take you
on a journey. And so it's split into four sections, and we start with winter. So, the first sphere is Asia, which is relationship with land and place. And so, it's really concrete and physical. So, you start with white wine for this because it's the most Barren, the This is really protection about Shields and defenses and and we think about what it would take to remove the outer shell.
So fruits are nuts. That might be related, might be almonds, bananas, coconuts, papayas things where you have to peel something or break, something open in order to consume it, asea means actualization, fruits and nuts. That have a heart outside and a fleshy inside, and they're supposed to sort of Find us of the ways that we sort of pull ourselves up. And winter, makes us all feel a bit dormant and all feel a bit cold. And so how do we connect with what's hidden inside us and
start with that? So the actualization is a removing the outer covering or the hard shell to get to the authentic inauthentic, exactly. And so the next is yet Sierra, which means formation and It's about relationship with communities. So again that first one is like relationship with land in place and being, you know, just sort of Landing, if you can think of it that way. And then you'd see a first of all, with the wine, you still
have your white wine. But you add a little bit of red to it. And that's how you start bringing yourself to spring. So this is marked by eating fruits with pits at the center. And what's fun about this is that pits are often discarded. Like I always bring updates their sort of the Thing to talk about. So they're soft on the outside, hard on the, inside the seeds, on the inside, you throw them away and that's what causes
rebirth. And we eat these fruits to remind us that flowering trees were once. Barren, that, that there's a process. The mystics would say that this is a world of inwardness, of emotion, a sense of feeling and that what we were protecting before in the previous fear is part of what's like really, really important, it's the heart, so some of the things we would be looking at. Our apricots, avocados cherries, olives, peaches plums, but again with that knowledge of there's
soft and fleshy. And what's inside is really so important because it's that seed that creates regrowth and continuation beautiful. Then we get to relationship with the world which is in the part of the Seder. It's called Bree I or creation. Actually, the first book of the Torah of the five books of Moses or what might be known by others. As the Old Testament is Genesis is translated for us, as is about creation, connects to creation and it's about eating fruits that are entirely edible.
So that's about reminding us of the wholeness of the world with that, that if everything is soft, then you're more able to as opposed to winter when you were closed off. You're now able to open up and and really connect there's no more protective shells or hard internal elements and so this could be blackberries, blueberries figs grapes, strawberries things like that. And of course we've added more
red wine to the white wine. So that we come to summer, we finish off with a solute which means nobility, but it's really about our relationship with spirituality. And there's no fruit involved with this. So this is really the mystics saying that this is a world of pure spirit. So you don't need any food at all. It's about our spirituality, our highest selves. When we're not necessarily
thinking about our bodies. How we just sort of blend in with everything in the in the world and find balance that way, you pour all the rest of the red wine into your glass. So that it's fall. It's completely red, but a satyr. So you would eat those things along the way. But you would also probably have poems from liturgy or the Bible or Jewish thinkers, who care about the environment or non Jewish thinkers, who care about
the environment. Because it's most satyrs are also very driven to talk about the environment and to talk about our connection with nature and how being a caring responsible. Human means being an active person who who takes care of the land around us. How else is to bishvat observed? Is this happen that you sort of sit with or think about throughout the next day or the next day's to ruminate on or what, what is your experience with this particular celebration in my experience?
It's usually I've been a very active holiday that you have the seder at night, but then during the day the next day or sometime of course in our modern world, sometimes we're not able to take Monday off because of a minor Jewish holiday, right? But sometime during that day, or that week, There's planting trees, there's tidying up a community garden, there's trying to send money to other places that might need trees. There's bringing in speakers about Environment.
So it's usually got this very active. Let's go that kind of element to it. I love that. It sounds wonderful and it's so visually Rich, you know, it engages all of the senses, I would think as a child or as a young person that if it would have quite an effect on on a person, is there a specific memory or a specific thing that sort of stands out in your mind about? Taking all of this in as a
younger person. So I would say that I didn't really learn about or participate in satyrs until I was a little bit older, the focus for me while growing up. I'm I came through the reform movement that is extremely social justice oriented. So we sort of at the time, that's not the case anymore, much more integrated now.
But at the time, the focus was planting trees helping the environment getting out into the Writing and, of course, February or end of January in New England, that was sometimes hard to do. So, there was, there were often drives to buy a tree in Israel and have a tree planted in
Israel or dedicate a tree. That would be planted at a different time because, of course, the environment and that this big awareness of the environment that Israel's, you know, when you can plant a tree in Israel versus when you can plant a tree in, New England is so Very different. But I do remember being a kid in Sunday school and decorating the classroom. I do remember, trying fruits and nuts and things that I hadn't tried before.
As a little kid, I do remember distinctly how the teachers said here, try carob, it's just like chocolate and the Betrayal that occurs horrible, because also Court carob, if you just said, here's a cool. Saying eat it, then I could love it for what it is. But we definitely did sort of mini satyrs and there's a blessing for everything that is always a fun day. But now, the Seder has become. I think it was a little seen as a bit hippie.
While I was growing up and now it's much more mainstream. So it's also nice to see how Judaism evolves and Jewish practice involves within communities. And so, it's lovely that now, it's a very mainstream thing to do. So yes, that is a great segue to today as you celebrate to bishvat, are there any specific things in your mind that you are thinking about or applying to this day or contemplating with, with the new year of trees? What does it mean to you in 2023 in 2023?
And it actually so much of what we've learned by doing the podcast comes to mind. So I definitely I am going to be with a community doing a Seder, very much looking forward to that. And then for me personally, I've been grappling with what I individually can do. So I have this small little garden plot and I need to tend to it a little bit. There's a little bit of a mess right now and it needs a little bit of love, even though it's dormant. I want to make sure that she's
ready for the spring. There's also a community thing here of a group that gets together and and picks up litter everywhere. So seeing what I can do in my own Community is what's going to be a top on my mind.
and I think I'm also so sad that this is our last episode of this season, but a small break for now, but it just seems so relevant somehow to have this be our last episode, being the new year of trees, which This contemplation, but also this forward momentum which is really wonderful and I thought maybe we could take a minute while we're both here together to just sort
of commemorate and discuss. The the season of tree speech that we just embarked on, which started with embracing Autumn and perhaps maybe you could speak a little bit about the seeds of the Season. We never know exactly where the
season will go when it starts. But there were some things I know I know that we had discussed that we really wanted to highlight and to lift up within the podcast and and to sort of be our guide throughout the trajectory of the interviews and episodes we were very forward about our themes for
each of the first three seasons. And for this, I recall that we were really thinking about the divine feminine in the wake of Roe vs. Wade, being overturned really thinking of the power of Women their Insight strength, ability to heal themselves and those around them and their innate interconnectedness with nature. And so though we never said the divine feminine out loud, we were really focused on finding women to elevate to highlight and the work that they're doing.
So we started the season with the story of Demeter and Persephone, which is such an interesting story especially when you You started in Autumn, and then look at it in winter at a time, that is quote, unquote Barren. But again, over the course of the Season, we've learned time. And again, that nature is busy even when we can't see it.
So, we ended that episode with Heather Porter who gave us this gorgeous meditation on sacred rot, the idea that what is falling, what we need to let go is actually doing work. That, that is good for the environment and Good for ourselves. When we let things go and go through the process of composting and making rich soil, so that things can grow later. I just thought that was a really
powerful perspective. Yeah. It was really Illuminating just to see things from a different vantage point and I love how that Trace is all the way to to bishvat at this point, then so he's absolutely getting rid of the Sacred rot. Which again, seems that those Those two things don't really go together perfectly.
And then from there sort of, moving forward to the next justices in ecosystem, with Kristen Patterson, which I can say, our is very connected because part of the letting go of what is not serving became a big theme because Kristen Patterson was really focused on the interconnectedness of Reproductive Rights and climate Solutions and saying, here's
what's not working. Let's that go and move towards what could work that episode also had Christina Eskridge who took all of her background interests, and abilities and talents, and insights true to form Elevate theater companies, this marriage of health and Healthcare and theater and Community which also she was stepping into working within that full-time making that taking the leap into To her making that her main focus in life which was about letting go
of the things in her world in order to see these, these other passions. Yeah. And for both of them with Elevate theater and withdraw, down lift, Kristen had made the statement that generosity is a mindset and both of them seem to really live like that, which I really admire again. This is what we had sought after is finding people who Make their worlds better by taking whatever, they have at their fingertips, their own talents, their own interest, their time, their experience and creating
this change through. That doesn't require all of these things that are outside of ourselves. But we all have that capacity and that ability, we all have those seeds inside of us which leads us to What Lies Beneath and thinking about compost and that's what casaya was doing.
Doing was I was creating compost in the Merrimack Valley and saving us from the amount of methane gas that we could have experienced and it's also a delightful because it's connecting us with a part that we don't normally think of, you
know, especially entry speech. We're looking at the tree itself, what we can see and we're not thinking of the soil that the tree is in. So that was was fascinating to think of how do you even start What Lies Beneath and then I have a log that Vein The Return of spooky trees which is always one of our favorites fun at that time of year to get into the lower and the myth. Yeah, spooky trees. Oh my gosh, we love spooky trees. And then we wanted to replay the Liberty Tree episode which also
is very timely and important. Our country sort of going through these Cycles once again where it seems that we are in that same. Same place that we were at the time of the Liberty Tree and everything with the same challenges and violence and and needing to figure things out.
And it's just always so interesting to see how within that story that the tree, the symbol of the tree and then who tells that story is so important and crucial to understand, and I was happy that you were able also to voice your concerns. Cern's, within the world and within your experience, in a way that we haven't really done with, in this podcast and looking at the rise of violence and anti-Semitism within this country. And I was so grateful for that
opportunity. And the way you encouraged me because it is scary to speak up about these things. And so I was really grateful for that. Well, I think that's sort of what our podcast can do Best In My Eyes, is it? It's tree speech. So you know we're looking at current events and things that are happening right now and processing and digesting and looking at how how they affect us, how they affect nature, how we affect nature, and all of these relationships.
So, it's very important. It's very important. And speaking of learning to use our voices, aren't the next episode up was a conversation in the clearing the immersive installation. Created together and The Inspirations for that. And how much the concept of wintering played into that, which, again, sort of continues. We have introduced these challenges that and our take on it is to take our lead to take our example from nature. And to go into these places to heal ourselves and to heal our
communities, and our families. And most of the time, I think that requires a little bit. Bit of soul-searching or becoming quiet, and listening for the answers, instead of maybe being so reactive. It's so vocal.
It takes some inner growth. I think to get through these places where we find ourselves as people and as a country, and as a world right now, which the Trees, of course, teach us trees, teach us. And it was an exciting opportunity, because you and I both come from the theater world and For on the podcast, we found various ways to make the podcast theatrical, but this was the first time that we were able to collaborate and and sort of approach more physical
theatrical experience. Yeah, it was, it was fun at the end of the day to figure out how to bring the podcast into a physical space. And we'll see what happens in the future as well. We'd love to see some other installations. So stay tuned. From there, it was really wonderful to welcome neshama carlebach up to ya to speak about her story and to do, we had it done a show on family trees and which is swept.
Yeah, I know. It seems to be the thing that everyone is taught at some point, this idea of a family tree. And I like that, we questioned that structure and then also looked at what that and examined, what that means, why We use that term, it's very own. Again, you know, going back to is this, the only system that works for us and if not, how do we let that go? How do you create, where do you fit into the narrative?
I mean, it really, it was so interesting how much that episode resonated with our autumnal equinox episode and the story of how do you create your own Dynamics, in your own family story, and maybe make something new? What sort of A Shinto, you have to those people, your family members are those people who have come before you as well, as looking forward to setting the landscape for the type of world and experience that you want, for those after two to have as
well, this was one episode. That the only thing, I wish I had thought to say was to ask our listeners. If they have family tree stories, they would like to share or Shinzon, the concept of family trees. Well, and if they do feel free to contact us through our website tree speech, podcast.com or if you go to Anchor, if you listen on that platform, you can also leave us a voicemail so that would be fun. Sharing a terrible winter solstice which has sort of become a little bit.
It was our second year. So it's now a tradition of Of course, I love that type of ear. We let the light in while also enjoying, we deterring. You know, we're in that frame of mine so we're going internal. But also noticing the little, the little bit of more light letting the light in each day and how to bring that into our lives, learning all the ways that winter can bring so much joy. It's such a glorious time of year. So I really appreciated being able to enjoy the winter
solstice. And to share it with everyone. It's one of my favorites for sure, me, too, and that leads us to. I was even thinking about the, the next episode, The open-air Life. Today, as it was so-called and I thought, no, there's no such thing as, bad weather, only bad clothing. It's a big only bad preparation bad. So I got it, you know, the right socks. The right yeah. Everything and I was fine.
It's yes, very enjoyable. And so looking at the Swedish idea of free Lutz Leaf, which is the open-air life of being outside. And then, interviewing Linda Baker was really a thrill that was really so in such a thrill. Everyone I told about the book before we even release the episode was like, oh my gosh, I love that thought and it's such a, it makes so much sense. And I will say, you know, I'm
already quite a walker. Hiker, but even more so since that interview since speaking with Linda, now I'm like wow I haven't been outside enough today. Let's make that happen. Yeah, she's very inspiring and the book is beautiful. As you I think I love you beautiful to touch the illustrations there rest. Yes, I can't recommend it enough. It's really a wonderful resource. So it delightful, I do think that there's so many people who are waiting for spraying and just to be able to go outside
and enjoy. And appreciate something in any weather is so important. It's so huge. I think so often we get into this idea that yes we're waiting for something or counting down the days or whatever and I don't I think it's important not to want time to task by so quickly. I think I think it's important to enjoy wherever you are whatever time of year and to see all of the beauty, the light the
possibility within a cold day. Something that I also recognize that The really made sure she wasn't skipping over which I appreciate it. Is acknowledging when it's not safe for people to go out or communities where that might not be the case clocking, the privilege involved with feeling safe enough to walk anywhere at any time and I thought that was really important and that's the other side of that, right?
Is to understand. If we are able to harness and explore the possibility that that isn't the case for everyone. Yeah. So if you have it to be able to work towards these outdoor spaces, being safe, and accessible and, and for everyone to be able to wear warm clothes. And to understand that there is more than enough for everyone. And how can we make sure that things get to the people that don't have access to them?
Is also part of, I think, what? All of our speakers do within their lives and their work and also just A constant thing that needs to be addressed and to it to be looked at very much so that leads us to to our last episode which was trees with Megan Buell who started the transgender resource, education and Enrichment, Services nonprofit in Indiana and saw the needs for something. Again. This is void of an area that needed to be addressed.
And she jumped in rolled up her sleeves and made it happen. And is so inspiring. And also, I just loved when we sort of found this organization and and saw the tree metaphor and then again, see how trees are so interrelated in everything that we do as people they're sort of in our DNA, no matter what and to be able to interview her and to hear about the work that she does all over the United States.
It's and that her plans to continue to do that work and to, to use education, to bring a part or to bring into the world peace and understanding and better living condition for so many people is really astounding. Again is just another example of how we all have these stories and these things that can be shared and can be used to. Make the world a better place. What the season?
I mean, look at all that. So many inspiring people who shared so much with us. I think we will always be grateful to all of our guests for taking their time to sit with us and to share their stories and experiences and their inspiration. I look forward to seeing where the podcast will go further. Let's all take a little break and regroup and then we'll start up. Again in the meantime, though, the producer had be must tell everyone that we do have a patreon page with patreon.
You give little goodies to the wonderful people that contribute ours. I think our options are like two dollars or five dollars or ten dollars a month. So not a huge investment if if you are capable and 100% of that money, of course. Horse goes to, to producing all of the things that have to go into bringing this podcast to
life. We've posted a few things, but we will start having our tree house hangout where we'll meet and talk about trees and then things that are meaningful to us. So if anyone feels inclined at all, please, we'll have a link in our show notes. But join our patreon page. We're really trying to build a community of tree-loving Seeing people who love, who also see the connection of trees, within all of things that are happening in our world right now. Well, it was a pleasure to
re-interviewing you today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for joining tree speech today. Jonathan I love Hearing my line. He see you in the new season. Hearing my line. He see you in the new season.