Author, Philip, Carr gomm. Once wrote the songs of our ancestors are, also the songs of our children family ancestry, whether it is motivated by curiosity or striving to find connection has created a multi-billion dollar industry as more than 26 million people have taken. An ancestry tests in the last 10 years, it's not difficult to see why we are rooted in our ancestors, including their physical and genetic traits. Yes.
But even more. So their lives and stories in mod Newton's latest autobiographical book. Ancestor trouble Newton, observes the stories, we tell ourselves about our ancestors have the power to shape us. It is Further interesting to note how our family lineages are often called our family trees. But how did this tradition of looking at our family lineage, as a tree begin? And what happens if we don't find the answers that we seek
were guarding those trees? Or even find things that disrupt our understanding, of our families and ourselves, In today's episode, we will examine the origins of the concept of family trees and speak with award-winning singer song, writer, and educator neshama carlebach about her Artistry Inspirations and the journey of understanding that she has taken as a direct result of her own family tree as the daughter of the renowned and musical Rabbi Shlomo carlebach.
I am Dori Robinson. And this is tree speech. A cast where we strive to listen to the forest through the trees. This week's episode was written and recorded in Massachusetts on the native lands of the wabanaki Confederacy, Penacook massachusett and Pawtucket people and in New York and the
land of the Lenape tribes. Tree speech is co-written and produced by Jonathan's out, Nur with a light theater, Guild Some people believe that the visual depiction of family trees with family members on various branches and leaves began in medieval art with the tree of Jesse and artistic depiction of the ancestors of Jesus, of Nazareth. The text on the image includes a passage from Isaiah, but a shoot shell grow out of the stump of Jesse, a spring shall Sprout
from his stock. Jesse father of King David was depicted as the Patrol route from which the ancestors of Jesus. Sprung in the later medieval period, the nobility adopted the tree as a symbol of lineage and by the 18th century, family pedigrees were commonly referred to as family trees, although the foliage had disappeared and The Roots appeared at the top rather than the base of the diagrams.
Genealogy comes from the ancient Greek, gonna Loggia, meaning the making of a pedigree the and is the study of families family, history and the tracing of their lineages using among other things. Oral interviews, historical records and genetic analysis. People strive to demonstrate kinship and pedigrees for many. The goal is to trace the descendants of one person for others, it's to learn all sorts
of information. Genetic traits, DNA legal next of kin or preserving family, traditions even More people often want to figure out where the story of their family fits in the larger story of the world, today's guest has had to do this examination and personal ways, but also on the public stage, there are a few rare, wonderful things that came out of the first year of the pandemic and for me meeting the shama was one of them. An individual with an abundance
of generosity. She participated in over 300, Zoom events from fundraisers to galavan's and life cycle moments all to provide Solace comfort and uplifting music to communities around the world. During a time when we all needed it. So very much. I met her working on one of these events and immediately felt a sense of kinship Neshama began performing from a young age, having come from a musical, Jewish Orthodox family later. She sees practicing as an orthodox Jew.
Instead sparking public conversations about the place of women in Judaism, even more. She shifted from performing her father's music to writing her own. All the while collaborating with performers of various faiths and music Styles neshama, now has her own presence in the Jewish and Musical. Old having sold over 1 million records. Making her one of today's best selling Jewish artists in the world neshama and I spoke about how her unique family tree has shaped her life.
Let's listen. Michela, it's so good to speak with you. I was just saying to before every time we speak, even if it's just for a few minutes, it feels so wonderful and nourishing. So thank you for making the time today. It's my honor, truly, thanks for inviting me to be part of this odd. This is gorgeous. The theme of this episode is Family Tree, and I could think of no better person to speak with the new because you have
such a rich story. Re and you come from a musical family, your father, being the late Shlomo carlebach known throughout the world as the singing Rabbi, what were some of your earlier memories of music in your household. So, I want you to also know that my mother side is also a very musical family. My grandfather was a Cantor and he hits a whole string of amazing stories about how my grandparents escaped from Russia and the 1900. It's but one of the ways in which he escaped very bad fate,
as a Jew, was to sing. And from when he was 13 years old, they would put him up on the table and he would sing my grandfather died. I think he was 93 or 94 and he sang all the time. He had an incredible Rich voice and my one of my mom had four older brothers. One of them played clarinet in an orchestra like in a very big Orchestra and another one of my uncle's name was Sir Cyril Irving. Glick. He was a composer who won like incredible.
We grew up in Canada and he won the governor general award for his compositions. But I definitely feel like my music comes from both sides of my lineage from all sides of my tree, and it's definitely very much alive in my children. Both of my children are prodigious musicians and I feel, I feel very much like it's the, it's the breath. It's the air. In my life, it's not that. Oh, I had music in my home, as I think my home was music growing up. It was filling every space.
Every corner it is. It is the fabric of our breath. It's who we are. That's just so beautiful. What a beautiful image and it seems so true of you. Thank you. I just came to me must be because of you I was going to say it's because you're a songwriter, that's something I think about especially at Will speak as a Jew. Is that the people who sang are also very much keepers of stories, your descendant of a cancer. I mean you. So you have that extra layer of being the keeper of stories.
Thank you. I love that. My father used to say, as long as we tell stories, we never get old. Mmm, because our stories are what gives us life and I think that's actually really true. And, you know, it is as we're thinking about the analogy or The connection to the Earth and to trees. It's true. Because it's our truth, it's Our Roots, it's where we've come from. And when we can plug into it, it always gives us life.
You know, when we're proud of our Journeys, whether the stories are painful or extravagantly. Gorgeous. We have so many stories, each of us so many Journeys. So many intersecting branches. And when we can connect to ourselves, we do have life. I believe it. I absolutely believe that stories and music are a life force for us. Yeah, keep us growing. Yes, I wanted to share this with you. I'm just going to, you know, you
didn't ask me, but about this. But when we first started to speak about your love of trees and this podcast, I wanted to share this little word of Torah with you. You know, from my jewy self because, you know, I can't help it. My father used to say you have to have a cash Torah on you, like It's like going out with a five, you know, like you just just in case you need to pick something up, you just have like something in your pocket.
So there are few Torres that I've held my whole life, kind of like the cash Torah in my pocket in case of need. So this is one of those tours. That's really kept me going. The amazing thing about to be Schwarz which is the anniversary of the tree that the birthday of the earth is that in most places in the world, the trees are dead in most places, when that hot that I'm of year when it comes around, there are no leaves, it's cold outside. The the tree.
Look sad, you know? And then we learn that. That is the trees birthday. So why is that? Why is it that the birthday is celebrated not in the depth of Summer? Why is the tree celebrated in time where that's cold? So, the Kabbalah says, which is actually very interesting and I think there's probably dissertations to be written about this concept actually.
That onto bishvat on that day. Something extraordinary happens from the inside of the earth and the sap from the bottom, and the inside of the earth comes up through the ground to nourish the tree. And so the tree may have been sad at the tree may have thought. Everything is over. I'm done now. There's nothing left for me. And then suddenly on that day of the birthday, the sap starts to come in to see pin from the
inside and it's a secret. It's not not for the world to see, it's not big branches, it's not cherry blossoms, it's not flowers, it's from the inside of the world, to the inside of the tree and that's that's the birthday. Because I think we sometimes put so much emphasis on what happens on the outside and the external affirmation what everyone reflects back to us about something meaningful. And we learn, it's like, it's not about anything else, it's not about what happens on the outside.
It really is about the story. It's about the roots, it's about the sap. It's about what you're receiving on the inside that nourishes. You, and I love that. I love thinking that. That's, that's the anniversary to acknowledge and celebrate. Eight. And so I give that, that little thought that Holy, Holy intention over to you, we have to learn from the trees on every single level but that that always that sustains me that thought. That is such a beautiful thought
and it's so true. Even while dormant that there's nourishment happening, That You Don't See on the outside, easy on the inside, want to treasure, yes, but you have to receive it right? The job to receive if you don't receive it, you know, you don't receive but it's always coming
up for you and I really believe. Also, it's in those moments where it's the most dark or it's the most cold, that's like when we're at the end when we think, you know, no one remembers us that's when the love comes in. If you receive You think we all have a lot to learn from that thought, actually, well and you hit on a good point that it comes from the roots, we think of trees in their biggest Bloom and of course I'm in New England. So we often think of trees in
the fall. So we're always looking at sort of the top and the extension, but not the roots. Yes. Yeah. So how did you start to receive neshama? How did you start to what when you are receiving this music? What made you take it from the roots and branches? Branch out with it in your own way as your own music maker. So only a few years ago, did I, did I begin to receive from the inside? Took me a really long time.
I was in a very sad place and could I have received earlier possibly, but I wasn't, I wasn't open to it, for whatever reason, everyone has their journey. I had to like really go through incredible loss and pain for my spirit to open and to see my own worth and to begin to sing from a place that was really me as opposed to just trying to reflect the outside. I think I spent too much of my life trying to emulate my father. Resuscitate, my father, you
know, bring him back, honor him. I don't know why I had that compulsion actually, but I think it if I had a debt to him, I think I've paid it and I'm really, I'm very, very grateful that I was able to to wake up one day and to decide that I wanted to, you know I kind of make the joke like to leave my parents basement. And move out on my own. And when that happened, when I was, I think I was able to be a human, and a mom and a partner and an artist but that only just
happened just a few years ago. So I'm all brand new, you're a sapling, I'm selling, like you're still the sapling, I love that as a fellow rabbi's daughter. I do think that we see both in the household and in our spirituality. Tea and in our religious community how how it is done by someone else leading and then to it takes a lot of Bravery to go on your own, and make it your own, and to find your own voice. And to keep growing from that agreed. Agreed.
We're all we got very caught up in what we think people want to hear or like to hear or what? We wish we sounded like or look like. And I think it takes a tremendous Amount of inner work and perseverance to push all of that aside. And I think that's my, I mean, besides my children, my greatest accomplishment has been my ability to to surpass my own expectation of myself and and wake up to who I was meant to be before.
I was 90, you have stated that you believe that music is our connection to the Divine, every blade of grass, Every bit of creation had its own Melody. Every part of creation was a symphony that was how they spoke to one another. And on this podcast, we do a lot of examining. How trees communicate with each other and with us. Can you expand on this melody of Nature and can we hear This Magnificent symphony today? I hope we can.
I hope I think that the greatest sadness is that we Not attuned to the songs of nature, because if every blade of grass is singing, then how much is every human being singing? We Miss, we miss it so much, but I think that if you go outside and you close your eyes, you can absolutely choose to tune in and you'll feel it. It might take some time, it's
not immediate but it is there. I promise that's also a cupola that that amazing concept that when God created the world, World, he created, he, she created the world with some and I definitely feel it when I go outside. Sometimes I just, if I'm having a hard day, I just have to walk outside and breathe. And I don't know if that happens for you. It's really, really special and precious. So I think I think people people can do anything if they choose, but you have to be open to it.
You have to decide, you have to receive exactly. I think that there's a world of to-do lists out there that I am. He was so being outside can really make the difference, really I'm going inward. So let's talk more about your journey, family trees are complicated and you had to meet these challenges in a public way with such Grace, and compassion and integrity. How were you able to hold such space for your own? Needs your own faith and the
legacy of your family. So my father Rabbi Shlomo was is is an extraordinary human being who had a whole lot of stuff, gorgeous stuff and painful stuff. And when he passed away in 1994, I took over his work in order to support my family because if I had not gone to work, we would
not have had our home. It's very recently that I've started to be honest about that when people would ask me why are you singing I tell folks to remember my father and I love him so much and I want to keep him here. And that was definitely true. I think Tim also to my detriment, but we were impoverished and had I not gone to work, we would not have have survived my family, we would
have lost our home. And so I went to work to sustain him and hold him, singing his music all over the world and several years after he passed several women wrote an article in Lilith magazine Dean talking about how he had abused them sexually in his life. And when that happened, when that came out, I was Orthodox at the time. And so when I say I was singing my father's music and I speak about the community of my childhood.
There is, it's very complicated. So, when the allegations came out, it was 1998, everyone around me, declared that these women were Liars, they're lying, and they're only doing so now for their own and I don't know what what anyone gains speaking about pain, and they're liars. And you're my father was perfect. He was, he was the Messiah. And so God forbid, and at that time, I was very Orthodox, and I
had accepted my space. As an orthodox woman, is being less than I am. I'm not strong because I'm a woman, I'm deficient because I'm a woman. I said, Shalom Sonny shot. There was a there was a blessing that you say, thank you God, you know, sorry I didn't say it. I acknowledge that men around me would say she lost on E Esha. The thank you. God, for not making me a woman and that didn't offend me, I'm offended. Now, as I look back that I was not offended but that was my
world. Like God, you made me as you made me and there's no choice in that and then everyone around me was like, well, you're too bad. Someone didn't have a son because you Could have been something and I apologized for my existence all the time. And I was a woman who had been hurt as well and no one believed me and I didn't know how to hold
my own pain. So when the people in my life told me that the women who came forward to reveal their stories about my father and they were Liars, I believe them. And I've had the opportunity publicly to apologize for that because I'm ashamed that I wasn't stronger at the time, because I would have I have had a very different reaction then I had, if I had been stronger and I was not so we go through our
lives. 1998, he's not here. There's no trial, there's no, you know, I mean, there's, he's not here anymore to present any kind of story or two to receive whatever Justice he would have received. And I, as his daughter continue to hold this everyday, people would talk to me about. It asked me about it and I would never comment in 2017 and here I am going through my whole cycle of life and, you know, my my seasonal change, my shedding of Leaves and fall.
I'm taking this analogy way too far for you. During when I got divorced in 2012, I stopped being Orthodox. So when I stopping Orthodox, I began to spend time with, with Jews who were not Orthodox, which meant that women could sing before 2012. Before I decided I wanted a different kind of community. I never knew any women who sang?
I didn't have any sisters who did this, I was The only woman in a room full of very aggressive men, that was how I felt pretty much all the time in my career, having to navigate having to you know, bring my father in almost like a like an
indivisible bodyguard. You know, my father said, my father said, you know, because I couldn't I knew I wasn't enough on my own but when I met women who could sing I began to appreciate the value of being a woman, It took me a really long time and when I began to appreciate who I was and appreciate them, my world shifted completely, and my relationship with God shifted, my relationship with my with my Artistry shifted and then when the me to moment began in 2017.
And the allegations against my father resurfaced, I had a very different reaction. And I think it was mostly because of the inner work that I had done and because I was no longer afraid to see that women don't lie. What does it mean to receive? Someone's truth? You know, it means. You have to see things that hurt. You means that you need to, you need to breathe through your own reaction, to their truth, to hold them to be present for them and hearing that.
My father had done these things. Before I couldn't. I couldn't hear it at all. It was. And it was About their pain was about mine. You know when you're when you're in pain is really hard to hold other people and that was me for a very long time and when the allegations resurfaced it was like it was a massive Epiphany for me. My I just saw my whole life, I saw my whole world, I saw my father, I saw myself. And I heard I heard them. I knew it was true.
I knew it. that must have been very difficult to acknowledge and sit in and hold space for What did you do next? I decided I wanted to dedicate my life to hearing and to being an activist. So I began to respond. I began to write and wrote several articles speaking, very specifically to how it felt to
hold the truth about someone. I love so much and didn't love very much at the same time once I started to have to hold all of that and And even as I was going through, all of these revelatory moments, that did not stop, my family, my music, my father, and me from being canceled. And I think, actually, I'm still canceled. I don't, I don't know. What am I supposed to feel differently to be uncanceled versus canceled? I don't know.
It's hard to say, sometimes I think I'm no longer canceled, but I didn't really understand what that was in the first place. I really, I have I have respect for the concept of cancellation because it would Be really lovely to go back in time and, you know, and just fast-forward and Rewind as needed, and take out the sad parts and I, you know, I grew up in a Land of Fairytales. So I would love to have that mechanism. That would allow me to cancel the things that are hard.
But even taking my family aside, and my own cancellation, which has many ramifications on my spirit, I really think that holding all of the parts of our Journeys. I really believe that that's what makes us the best us that we can be the best version of ourselves. And if I could go back and uncanceled myself and change the pain, that brought me here, I don't think I would do it. I think I would rather. I would rather have lived through what I've lived through and be strong.
I would rather have had my journey and burned up completely, and found something new then stayed where I was. Was without the pain and that's a very large thing to say and I realized that that's not for everyone. There were a lot of people who need to avoid and I understand why I respect the fear of pain, the fear of Truth. And I really feel very proud of myself that I was able to to just hold it to just stand in it and be in it.
And so when you asked me about my journey and about my complicated family tree, I guess everyone knows why you're asking. Asking me that question. There's a why according to other people and why your own Journey throughout. It, I mean, being in the family is so different from reading about the family. Again I just have to double down with my appreciation of you. You are Carl buff, your name is Carl back as well but you are you who you are, how you've grown.
I'm sure you've heard this in, some way, shape, or form, but it's something teachers, say all the time that the flower isn't growing You don't yell at the flower. You examine the environment and say it's a getting too much, sun, too much shade, not the right soil. What's you did that? Work of looking at your environment and saying how am I going to shift this? And you could have absolutely left Judaism. All together you could have, you could have shut it all down and
he sat in the discomfort. That is something that we're struggling with as a nation to sit with the discomfort as we speak about all sorts of things. The I'm in crisis, race isn't like how we sit in discomfort and that's, that's your journey, that's specific to you. Well, I think it's all of our Journeys in one way or another and by the way.
So much of, you know, the systemic issues that we are facing now, come from an avoidance of this issue, you spoke before about the internal work, you did along during your journey and it makes me think of your story about the tree receiving sap receiving. There's there's been a lot of internal work done. You have so much richness from your whole family and from whatever family means to you. Now how does that continue to influence you?
I think it influences me just that I feel open and grateful right now. I hope that there will be more recording ahead. The pandemic began just as my 10th recording dropped and so we were about to tour our recording
called believe which was huge. A huge, amazing accomplishment was my first recording of original music and I had taken so much time to really figure out what I wanted to say and I feel like I haven't yet begun to offer those those songs to the world, because everything changed everything stopped. I'm working on my Memoir. I just signed with an agent which is very exciting. Congratulations, thank you.
I feel very blessed and grateful that I'm able to share my story and I hope that when the Because released that my story helps to empower and Inspire women, especially as we continue on this on this road, you know, there's a tremendous work ahead and we need to empower and love each other. And so, I hope very much that my story will be a part of the fabric of that work and that's where my heart is these days.
I think your Memoir will probably be incredibly impactful and I'm looking forward to reading it. Thank you, chef. ER so much wisdom and just in a few minutes sitting with you. I can't even imagine a whole book so if that's what's next for you story telling lies, is there anything musically that you haven't yet done? Because I know you collaborate with people of all different backgrounds, you found your own voice, you have this song called believe of all things. What's next for you?
Musically? I don't know. That's my truth, I don't know. And when you say I found my own voice, that's it's very gracious. I don't know that I have, I'm still, I'm very much a work in progress. I'm very much searching and seeking, I'll tell you what I'm very, very inspired by though. At this particular moment, the musical Hades town. Have you seen it? I have seen it and I absolutely love it. I am obsessed, I'm obsessed.
I listen to it all the time, and I'm gaining such depth and Truth. From the story from the brilliant composition and I don't know yet what's next for me but I am feeling inspiration from this body of work and I feel like if there's going to be a portal to just to knowledge. And next steps I feel like it's going to come to me while I'm listening to these songs. It's just it's going to happen. I don't know what it is. No no pressure to the musical.
A musical that really really does shed light on people's flaws, what people's needs and their hurt and with with a fusion of jazz and folk all these elements. Yes. Well to tell you in particular, like the part that has just like shattered me and opened me. And then shattered me again, when you're talking about the road to Hell, nothing works out. Sometimes things don't work out at all and you still you sing the songs, still you sing.
Anyway, still you try to bring the spring with your song because you can't control the wind. You can only pray that if you are touched by Holiness and divine energy that someone out there will hear you and that your voice will bring some kind of healing and even if it doesn't, you're going to keep singing. Anyway, we're going to keep trying anyway, we're going to raise a glass to those who fall apart and then stand up again. I really encourage all of you who haven't seen it.
Just at least Out the music. It's just Divine. It's really. It's holy stuff. Holy holy. Neshama. Thank you so much for joining us today. And I know I keep saying this, but your wisdom is such a treasure. I so appreciate your time and everything that you share from Torah to music to just the humility. As a person to say, I don't know. I'm a work in progress. It's so special to have you. Thank you love. Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you. This was a delight. Thank you so much.
There is a Chinese proverb stating that to forget. One's ancestors, is to be a brook without a source a tree without a root. Remembering is valuable yes. But what one does with that information is even more important. In fact, the metaphor of the family tree may need to be examined as well as we acknowledge the widening definition of what constitutes a family. An example of this work includes
Ohio historical. Three connections 2021 Workshop series, which focused on researching single ancestors to create a more inclusive family tree and exploring methods for researching the lineage of non-dominant groups, including women, people of color, and lgbtq plus people likewise the educational Community has begun to focus on how to teach inclusive genealogy and family history, to students teachers
are rethinking. Family, tree, assignments, that That don't include non nuclear family structures. Don't consider access to information or are not trauma-informed. What makes real family is different for all of us. If our family and even more our ancestors and our family tree is meant to guide and support us, then, I can look around my community and see far more familial relationships and branches in my world. This is all reflected in nature as well.
Professor of forest ecology. Dr. Suzanne simmered has written extensively on mycorrhizal fungi or networks the symbiotic association between fungus and plant which links the roots of trees and forests. Her research has demonstrated that the oldest trees and forests connect to all others. These Hub, trees are also known as mother trees, and they share carbon and nitrogen. Arjun with the hundreds of young
seedlings around them. What if we took a cue from nature and instead of only considering a family tree invited in a family forest, how am I shifting our perspective on family structures shift, our paths, where might we put our energy and resources? I often return to my family home during the winter holidays. There's a small table filled with photos of the family. Each frame specially chosen to proudly hold the precious, snapshot memory.
I've taken to scrutinizing each image, perhaps looking for answers or guidance. Do I walk in their footsteps? Am I accomplishing as much or furthering? Their causes do? I make them proud. Perhaps I'm asking The wrong questions instead of asking how my family lineage should guide. My next steps, I could Ponder how I create a branch or even a sapling one that is fully my own unique to me and the life. I live in our first episode of
this podcast season. We examined the Greek myth of Persephone this Tale. The story of Seasons changing of people trying to grow and become better versions. Of themselves of experiencing loss and hardship yet somehow finding the motivation and love to keep moving forward. This tale continues to resonate with so many including the shama. She mentioned, the Broadway musical Hades town, which is a modern retelling of this myth. That's the thing about myths, be, they, the Greek variety or
the stories of our families. We passed down through generations. Neshama shows us that while our family trees May inform the past events that have led us into being. We also have the power to reroute the course with our own lives. She speaks of being her own sapling, as when she was finally able to fully be a mom, a partner and an artist and reminds me that we can sit at the foot of our family trees. And also create a new Branch, a new story, a new song.
Haiti's Town ends with a musical toast, a blessing for the actors and also the audience who have all shared their time together, and we'll now go away on their own into their separate lives outside of the theater. Persephone sings some flowers. But the ones who blew in the bitter snow, we raise our cups. We raise our cups to them. Our deep gratitude for neshama for joining us today and for her vulnerability and inspiring
truth. Thank you for joining tree speech today To learn more about our podcast and episodes. Please visit tree speech. Podcast.com we're thrilled to be able to offer interviews, creative insights and stories about the natural world we live in and the trees who guide our way. Please also consider supporting us through our patreon. Every contribution supports our production and will be given Gifts of gratitude including an invitation to Treehouse our new virtual community for patrons of
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