S4/E3 Revolutionizing Adventure Travel: WeRoad Co-Founder, Erika De Santi

As you heard in last week's episode , we spoke to James Thornton , the CEO of Intrepid , followed from our conversation with Shannon Stoll , the CEO of the Adventure Travel and Trade Association .

Both of those conversations clearly resonated with our listeners , based on the comments , the feedback and the engagement , which I'm thrilled to see , because I love this category , I love this industry and I'm really keen to see the continued rise of this multi-day tour , adventure , organized adventure , socially conscious traveler however you want to refer to it , but this

style of travel is set for remarkable growth in the next decade , and the next company that we're about to feature is going to be a significant part of that . Today , we have one of the co-founders of WeRoad joining us , erica DeSanti .

Now , I've become quite familiar with their business over the last couple of years and I've been tracking their success , so I was so pleased to have this opportunity to speak to Erica , because I think what you'll start to see and understand is that not only does she have a remarkable backstory in terms of her messaging , storytelling and marketing capabilities , but

when you look at the team that they have formed and the success they're having in the marketplace , it's very clear that they're revolutionizing the market with this unique social style of small group travel in Europe , and they're seeing double growth in many of their major markets . So I'm really excited for you to have this opportunity to listen to Erica yourself .

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Now I have the fine pleasure to introduce you to Erica DeSanti , the co-founder of WeRoad . Erica , it's great to have you with us .

I want to discuss on our conversation today , because I do see a very bright future for WeRoad and it's an incredible success story with so much potential ahead of it .

But I want to start by getting the backstory , and specifically on yourself , because I was ever so keen to interview you , not only because you're a strong female leader in this space that's doing amazing work , but you actually also have a strong background in travel and tourism and a real passion for this space , in this industry .

So I'd love to get your backstory in terms of how you got into travel and what you studied in school . So take us through some of the early days of your development and how you actually decided to get into the travel industry .

So I started the curiosity of other cultures through foreign languages , to get in contact with other cultures by studying how they speak and how they communicate , and so this was the basis , let's say in the foundations , for my academic background that later turned into , okay , perfect . I've studied these amazing languages , but what about visiting those places ?

And so the desire to go beyond my tiny , tiny village in the province of Verona so Romeo and Juliet's town , let's say and get to know the culture like in person . In that sense , and when I had to pick , you know , a career , an industry to work with the knowledge of foreign languages that I've gained , I definitely started from travel .

I entered my first travel agency as an intern and I got shocked in a positive way , I would say . I had a sort of imprinting , because I've seen all those amazing catalogs showcasing incredible experiences and trips around the world , showcasing incredible experiences and trips around the world .

I didn't know half I would say , not half , 80% of the destinations that were listed there and I decided okay , maybe this is my world , I need to deep dive into it and discover it , all working in this amazing industry . So that was my , let's say , first turning point , ha-ha moment in my career .

After that , I started , you know , venturing in different aspects of the industry .

understanding languages and the art of storytelling . And then , of course , you moved to England and you did your master's in tourism at the University of Surrey and that I think that's where , as you noted that you know , that really fueled your passion .

So you've got this incredible academic understanding and then you're now you're out in the real world trying to figure out how am I going to apply all of this ?

So you're working as a travel agent and you're , you know , getting your learnings in the industry , and I think that's one of the things that really stood out to me about your story is that you made your way up in the industry and so you actually started as a specialist and , you know , even within WeRoad itself .

So , yeah , so tell us about the journey to get to WeRoad , because you had a few different opportunities some court roles , startups so tell us how you segued into WeRoad because , again , that's a really interesting story too .

So , as you said , I did the dissertation , my dissertation on Shakespeare and literary tourism , in Verona , because I thought like spaces could be storytelled in so many different ways and provide incredible experiences that are different for every target . So I kind of adopted the same approach with the industry .

I tested out , okay , what is working in a travel agent , loved it , but I wanted to get to know more , I wanted to deep dive into the experiences . So I tested out also the hospitality world , like as a hotel receptionist , and there I think I had the chance to literally grasp what the needs of the customer are in destination , right .

So , and obviously , as everybody , I suggest doing an experience in a hotel or as a hotel receptionist , like front-facing customers , because there you get the needs of people and you also become an amazing problem solver , either you want it or not .

So this is going to happen in any case , but I actually loved the contact with people , because that's part of my DNA , I would say . But I love more like having a more strategic , let's say , view on what was the experience crafting of the whole industry , right ? So I decided , okay , let's try and understand what other possible opportunities in the market are .

And after , as you said , going in the UK for a while , deep diving more and more on tourism marketing , I came back home and I started working in what was an incredible startup scale up in my hometown , verona , that worked on gift boxes right , which basically is putting incredible experiences in a box and gift them right .

So my role there was very much salesy , as you would imagine , because I was literally trying to convince all providers to join these gift boxes , so providing their experiences as potential gifts for people .

And I really was super fond of the project because I thought that , you know , experiences are the best gift you could ever give to people and what better than a trip could change people's lives rather than maybe a sweater you like the person hates but smiles , right , business developer .

But then in that company I had the chance to grow into a more business development role , like working hand in hand with the CEO of the company .

And there is where , when I started realizing that I had the passion for bootstrapping , launching from scratch new projects , right , so we ventured in many other , um , let's say , side industries around the gift boxes marketplace , and that enabled me to literally discover that my creative , passionate approach suits well , uh , a startup and scale up the environment , right ,

which is something that was completely , I would say , distant from the tourism industry , which which could be , I think , also in Italy , but especially in the UK market and , as you said , like in the English speaking markets , very established and solid , and putting the two things together was something that I was literally loving , and so that's what I started looking

for , so projects to jump in that could literally make a difference in the sector for our target in terms of innovation , for our target in terms of innovation . So how did I get to WeRoad ?

Just to close the whole story , in this incredible and long path , let's say , at a certain point the company I worked for was acquired by the major competitor , right , so I experienced also the very much , uh , sometimes threatened m&a experience .

Right so we were acquired and it was harsh , especially because , you know , working against the competition to gain market share and then being sold to that , also from a personal , professional perspective , could be a little bit daunting , let let's say , but at the same time , it was a great lesson , Also in terms of you know which are the path , the strategic path

that a company could have , and M&A , I think , strategically , was the coolest thing the CEO of the time could have done , because it was so spot on , so neat and so valuable for all the people in the team . They had incredible opportunities .

After that , that , I was like chapeau , but at the time , obviously , I was junior and I didn't know the whole strategy behind . After a while , I understood how great a move that was .

So after that , I decided to venture on , uh , um , on my own , let's say , startup , and , uh , I was amongst you know , the uh , the learnings , the analysis that I was doing on innovating , the , the industry , our industry .

I ventured into the concept of digital nomads , which at the time , right now , I think it's quite the norm , right , right , talking about these people that work remotely from wherever in the world . But , trust me , in 2016 , italy was like what the hell are these people ? What are they doing , right ?

So I was trying to understand , okay , why do these people go to Lisbon , to Chiang Mai to Bali and not to Verona , which is incredible , it's not that expensive , et cetera , et cetera . So I wanted to launch a co-living space to host this international community . And that was the business that I was about to start .

And I struggled to start because I was alone .

And while I was , you know , networking , looking for people to work with on this project , I bumped into Paolo De Nadai , which is the founder of WeRoad , and Fabio B , my other co founder and thanks to mutual connections to my previous boss so network is fundamental and then we started talking together about the co-living world , because he also was working on a

co-living side project At the same time as we wrote . And then , after two long hour conversation , we ended up saying , okay , the real estate world is so , so slow that we won't be able to make it like so fast , so let's work together on this other project . We wrote and from that day on , my life changed .

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Now back to the show . I want to ask you about One Day , because obviously One Day is the organization that essentially works with scale-ups in Italy and has a number and obviously they've struck lightning has struck with WeRoad in their ecosystem , a number , and obviously they've struck lightning has struck with we rode in their ecosystem .

But yeah , I thought it was interesting that the co-living , because I never made a connection between we rode and say we work , but obviously Adam Newman had the co-living concept before he had the co-working concept and now he's gone back to that with this idea of flow , and so it's interesting that , um , what essentially ?

Uh , you had this co-living idea and then you realize actually people actually really enjoy co-traveling . Um , and so was there any connection between the branding , how with we wrote and we work ? Um , was it just total coincidence that , uh , at the time you guys were coming up with the concept of we wrote , where did the did the WeRoad name come from ?

So there's actually nothing very much related to WeWork or the WeWork ecosystem , let's say . But what I can tell you is that , given at the time I was investigating this phenomenon of digital nomads , I was investigating the needs of the millennial that was the word . Those were the first years where this name came out .

Let's say , when we started talking about WeRote , we immediately understood that the target was the same . So all the studies that I've done in innovation in our industry matched completely with the WeRoad project . So the needs that also the co-living was kind of answering sometimes were covered completely by the WeRoad project .

And so that also , I think , was a great link to start , because I started already knowing the target and I was the target , my co-founder were the target . So everybody had you know , it's something that you always look when launching a project from scratch right the need and understanding the target .

So we would just look in our faces and say okay , this is our need , let's do it , because that's basically what happened in the early days .

I know you're now on Series B and we'll get into your growth a little bit later , but when you're part of the One Day Group , are they the parent company , Are they an investor in WeRoad ? How does that work ?

And I'm asking that obviously for all those entrepreneurs out there that are looking at I'm doing a keynote tonight at a place called 111 in Toronto , called for the TechTO conference , and it is a scale-up ecosystem , an incubator as we typically would refer to them .

So is that essentially one day's involvement was kind of helping incubate businesses , including WeRoad , and what's the relationship today ?

Right so he launched that first business , understanding that the power of community was absolute . Right , and it's not only related to a social media account or a blog , as it used to be at the time , because we're the same age , so you can guess more or less how old I am , but it's related to also how you monetize out of the value the community produces .

Right so he ventured into travel . So having this community traveling together , merchandising right so creating , for example , backpacks , books , diaries for school because the school topic for the first community that he launched was incredible .

And becoming a media brand , because when you become such an influencer on social media , you also become a media brand and you can start becoming an editor right at the same , at the same time . So he basically used this approach and launched several other businesses or companies that were able to support other communities to reach these monetization streams .

Right so we usually joke around the concept that every time we grow , we become older , we create a community , but basically , this is more or less what happened , right ? So right now , we have several communities that cover more or less all the ages , and we wrote the covers , the , the age span of 25 to 49 years old .

So the , the role of one day at a certain point , was , okay , it's a big umbrella , okay , a brand that covers all , all this community that have the scope of , you know , um , having an impact which is positive and , last , full on new generations and the future . Right ? So this is , uh , the scope of the , of the holding and with .

We wrote it was the first time that one of our companies was also exposed to external capital and investments , right , whereas before it was everything self sustained and generated by the revenues that we made with our businesses , starting from Squalazzo to a media agency , to an e-commerce provider , et cetera , et cetera .

We wrote it has reached a different level , which is that of external investment , that of internationalization , that of , you know , exposing an Italian company and scaling it across the whole world . So , which is something that we we are trying and testing out for the first time with our , with our community right .

So this to give you an overall view of what one day does .

Then obviously you started as a project coordinator and then you kind of moved head up strategy and managing director international expansion , so the and and now you're even the chief of people experiences , which I want to ask you about too . So let's start at the beginning .

So with we wrote origin story , I'm very keen to understand the types of trips and the markets you were serving initially .

I think now you're up to about 100,000 guests that have traveled with you , but when you were first getting the business off the ground and curating these trips , because one of the things I actually really find intriguing is that you came up with the concept of coordinators as the name of a trip coordinator and obviously I've spent a lot of time working across

organized tour companies and different naming conventions and how they approach their products .

So , given the incredible successful trajectory you're on , I'd love just to understand some of the decisions that were made at the early stage to determine what the product experience was going to be like , what the travel experience was going to be like , the group sizes , how you were going to travel and even the naming .

So how did that all come together and what were some of the first initial trips ?

I mean one in his late 20s , the other one , let's say , in his late 30s I don't want to disclose the age because otherwise Fabio will kill me , but we were all in the same age bracket and need , let's say , and they were looking at providers that could do this in Italy , but at the time , there were no operators doing this , apart from traditional tour

operators that normally are used by people that are over 50 or they're honeymooners , let's say , and , uh , the millennial in 2017 actually didn't use much organized trips , uh , to to go and venture around around the world , um , so they looked at the international competitions and one went on a trip with contiki and the other one with the adventures , right , so , um ,

the major learnings that got out of those , those two experiences were from one side in the contiki world . Obviously , it's like more , uh , tailored to a specific target between 18 and 35 years old , right , but the the trip was very much um , international and and standard . I would say so .

Paolo , when he ventured into this trip , understood that maybe our generations needed more focus on authentic and off-the-beaten-track experiences , less mainstream , and also he felt flexibility in the experience was missing , and that is something that the co-creation part right , which is something fundamental and paramount for our generation .

That was basically the Ryanair generations that started exploring Europe with low-cost flights and so starting creating their own trips without relying on an operator to do that for them . So he felt this as being like oh my God , we could be doing something like this , because this is actually missing .

And also the group dynamics were not at the center of the strategy but were like okay , a cool thing to get a better fare , go on the other side of the world , not spending a shit ton of money . So , on the other side , if you think about the G Adventures group that Fabio went with in Vietnam , it was much more diverse , right .

So it was in terms of age , in terms of backgrounds , in terms of nationalities , and what was missing there was the unity of the group , right , because everybody just kind of wanted to look for something particular from the experience , but there was no real bonding between the people traveling and there was no flow and rhythm that went the same way and once the

trip was over , everything was over . Ok , so you got your destination . That was your major objective , doesn't matter the people you're with , right ? So they came back and they said , okay , look , there's this gap in the market and in italy there is nobody doing group travels . We went to these two experiences .

We might have understood what , what is missing , and they tried to crystallize what were the needs of our generations in experience with such , uh such trips . Right so the first one is the need of authenticity .

Right so , not having big groups with 50 plus people together traveling to a destination , because that becomes , nonetheless , I mean , it's almost impossible not to to have a mass experience in that way , because obviously such a bunch of people needs a little bit of standardization to be operated . Right .

So maybe smaller groups to enable a more authentic experience could work and and also it would be easier to cater the needs of this group into off the beaten track destinations and off the beaten track experiences and accommodation as well , right so , um , this was one of the biggest , let's say , aha moments , also in terms of need .

Second , the need of flexibility . So , as millennials , we don't like to be told what to do , right ? So if you tell me , okay , at eight , this is what you need to be doing . At nine , this is what you need to be doing . At 10 , this is what you need to be doing .

At 10 , this is what you need to be doing , and hurry , hurry that , otherwise we miss the 11 appointment thing . Maybe we feel the pressure of not being able to give our input and not to create the experience ourselves , and that's also something that we put in our trips . Free time oh my God , this enemy right .

Or the possibility to , let's say , make the trip your own . Last but not least , the need for relationship . This we felt it was completely missing in all experiences design at the time . So nobody put the group component at the center of the experience , right ?

So maybe everybody thought about oh my God , I need to provide best experience to visit Vietnam , so I need to put these must see , these of the beaten track experience , et cetera , but without thinking how the group , how the group experience will be rolled out across these , let's say , steps of the journey right .

So , to give an example , we start designing a trip , not necessarily from the destination itself , but from what we call a sort of experiential curve or vibe that you can get during the trip , right ? So the first need of a group is breaking the ice . So my need when landing in Vietnam you might think is okay , I land in Hanoi . It's exploring Hanoi .

No , your need is getting to know the 15 people you have traveling with you . So which is the best experience that you can do going out of Hanoi ? Why ?

Because if you put a people of 15 that don't know each other , that have different needs , that still feel , maybe , the social barrier of expressing their own opinion freely on what they want to do in a city , which is the place where you have so many options , it's going to be tough to manage , right ?

So we designed the trip so that , right at the beginning , there's a ice-breaking moment , a moment where people can get to know each other , maybe a long transfer where you have to do a little bit of team building to go beyond what is the famous comfort zone , right ?

So these are things that we put at the center and , relating to what you said before , this is very much the power in the hands of the travel coordinator , which makes us different than anybody else .

So I've got so many more questions but on this topic , so getting an idea of where this business started , because clearly you made a lot of very smart strategic decisions and you know , the one thing that amazed me about your journey is that you had a captive market in Italy and in kind of central Europe , where it was ripe for this type of travel .

I mean , the companies that you just mentioned have been around for many more years Contiki from the 60s .

They were targeting Australians and Kiwis traveling through Europe via London , and so what's really unique is the fact that you're in the heart of Europe and really the adventure travel revolution was still yet to happen there , and you guys obviously not only timed it incredibly well but came up with a really terrific concept that resonated with the younger generation

today , that they feel that strong need for connection . I know one of the things that with social media , this whole loneliness epidemic I know James Thornton from Intrepid talks about that a lot and so also culturally , there was sort of a moment where people obviously gravitated to this style of travel and it's growing and growing .

So so , yeah , so tell us the first few trips that you were running as you were coming up with these concepts ? Where were you running these trips ?

And then , specifically , I want to know that , as you were talking about the kind of the co traveling idea and team building or the , how you came up with the idea of the coordinator role versus a tour manager or a trip leader or any other kind of title you could have bestowed on

them ?

If you told at the time to an Italian , let's go to Thailand , it's like , oh my God , my first intercontinental flight , right ? So it was very much specific on the travel habits of our market and at the same time , also other factors are super important . Deciding the first destinations were instagram trends .

So at the time , uh , indonesia wasn't a thing yet in italy , but it started , I think , more or less with the iconography of the ubud rice fields in in instagram and it become kind of viral , and so we got the hint that it could have been big and in the first year of Life of WeRoad it became the first top-selling long-distance destination , right ?

So things like this , a mixture between gut feeling and data , but social data , which is something maybe different than all tour operators do , was what guided our choices of which destinations to put online in the early days .

Then , related to what you said on the fact that we are at the heart of Europe , right in Southern Europe , and we kind of built the concept of group traveling from scratch .

I totally agree , because I remember at the time , studying the competition , what it did on our markets , and I think G-Adventures tried to get into the Southern European markets but didn't make through or cut through , let's say , in terms of market share and traction , and I'm pretty much convinced that there wasn't a concept of group travel at all .

So if you approach a market without creating first the basis , the foundation , and explaining what that means , you won't be able to really grasp the market , because the market is so distanced from what you are providing that there's no connection there , right ?

So what we did at the time was , with the help of our travel coordinators that differentiates us from the others is trying to literally be rooted in the market . So when we had to decide okay , who's the person that could protect the flexibility in the group and take care of the group dynamics ?

Who's the person that at the same time feels like a spontaneous promoter of the brand , a spontaneous ambassador of the brand ? Who's the person that can pitch spontaneously to their friends that traveling with other people that you don't know it's not something bad ? It doesn't mean that you don't have friends .

It doesn't mean that you have to worry about getting outside of your comfort zone and share stuff that you've never shared , but it's actually the coolest thing that you can do in your life . Ok , it could be the three of us saying it or it could be a bigger bunch of people .

So we went for the travel coordinator and also finding the name , as you said , it was quite tricky because we wanted to differentiate from the competition out there .

As you said , it was quite tricky because we wanted to differentiate from the competition out there , right , and as I normally say , the travel coordinator doesn't substitute the role of the local tour guide , right ?

So across the globe , we have incredible , amazing local tour guides that guide us below , let's say , the surface that everybody can experience in a country and literally doing to to get in contact with local cultures . But the travel coordinator is a person that takes care of group dynamics , of the group even before departing , right ?

So there are people that have the most diverse and different backgrounds and jobs . You get doctors , you get pharmacists , you get content creators , you get firemen , you get teachers , everything , literally , you name one , we have it .

And these people are all united by the passion for travel , the set of skill sets that we select and test , obviously like leadership , negotiation , empathy , team building , problem solving , but at the same time , there are people that , on top of being passionate travelers , are eager to share their experience with others and want strive to get in contact with like-minded

individuals , because we are social beings , as you said , we are fighting the loneliness of our generations and we want to get to know people that could become our friends tomorrow , today , hopefully , the day after tomorrow , right ? So , um , we leveraged on this need of our generation and had these people running our trips .

So , uh , obviously it's something very innovative , because normally you recruit full-time tour leaders that also maybe travel from the resource market , but we decided not to do that because we thought that the power of having somebody that experiences with you a destination and experience for the first time is so , so meaningful that can't be compared with somebody that

does it as a job . I'll give an example . I always say that when you climb up the rainbow mountains in Machu Picchu , right , it's something incredible , it's an experience that is life-changing for some reasons , but also it puts you a lot of time outside of your comfort zone . Maybe at a certain point you don't make it anymore , etc .

And if leading you there's a person that hasn't seen the Rainbow Mountains , you have that whole emotion of being united , also by the desire of exploring it together . Imagine if you had somebody that does it every day right ? So it's going to be something completely different , right ?

So this is what we put at the center , and on top of that , if you get a local guide that's describing you around , yes , group dynamics are fine , but there is no actual focus on on the group and on the desire of that group to become friends afterwards , right ?

So , uh , the coolest bit about travel coordinators that nobody else has is that once you're back home , it's not over , right ? So normally a trip is over when it's over , right ? So it's like's like . Okay , two sides done , visited , fine , maybe I'll remain friends with one person , I'll write the text , that's it .

Whereas what happens in having travel coordinators that come from the source market of the group so imagine a group of Spanish people traveling together on the other side of the world is that they reunite after they become friends . They go into other trips together , maybe they book with people that they've met on a WeRoad .

Lots of stories , a lot of connections , business partners , life partners , whatever was born within these WeRoad connections , right , and this links to our vision , which is connecting people , cultures and stories . There's no trip in our vision , but actually that's what we do with our experiences , right , and the community we built is the guarantor that this happens .

So this , more or less , I think it's what differentiates us out there .

And obviously now you're at , you know , at 100,000 passengers , you're one of the fastest growing travel operators in Europe .

One of the things that I just wanted to call out about that is that on the surface of that , obviously it's very compelling , but it really comes down to what we were discussing , which is the actual delivery of what we typically refer to in the industry as the product .

But really the actual travel experience that our guests are having and obviously having worked at Lonely Planet off the beaten path was sort of their primary reason for being and that's what people bought into , even though I know some people would say that actually you're not really off the beaten path when you're taking a Lonely Planet guy because you're literally

following all their recommendations for hotels and restaurants . You're basically on a Lonely Planet itinerary . It's a group travel of another kind , even though you feel independent , but nevertheless , the off the beaten path is still what people are seeking and that's what resonates with them . About the brand Life-changing , of course .

I was at G for many years and life-changing was our core value and that was something that we developed because we saw that that was the most profound impact that was happening on people when they traveled on a G Adventures trip . And I know you mentioned G and you mentioned Katiki and I mentioned Intrepid .

All three of those brands are incredibly successful and remain successful in the marketplace and I think this is where the fact that you guys have come along and there's a book called Blue Ocean Strategy I bought it for Bruce Puntip years ago , for the executive team , because even at the time there was kind of seen like there was two worlds for adventure travel .

There was Intrepid and G . There was sort of the two big giants of the adventure travel space . The reality was that there's a huge market for adventure travel .

Having traveled in each of those brands and had great experiences , you could see that there's there's something bigger happening here , there's a bigger opportunity , that there's something bigger happening here , there's a bigger opportunity .

And so I always had this kind of view of there's a blue ocean , that there's more people that need to be brought into the adventure travel category , and the pushing people out of their comfort zones which is one of the things I love that you incorporate into your positioning is essentially what needs to happen to a lot of people that their lives could be

dramatically improved if they were just to kind of shake things up and go on a trip like this , and then the relationships they would make with people that would also be positive and uplifting and that they would keep in touch with . So that's what I want to dive into a bit more .

Next is actually how you have been so successful in that product delivery , which I see just from my vantage point . I haven't been on a we road yet and I'd love to at some point , and I'm clearly a need to do it soon because I'm in the upper age bracket of your travelers now , but I would .

I love this concept of the actual travel coordinators being involved and that they're part of the travel experience as well , and I think that is incredibly unique and that certainly adds to that sense of community . And even you're mentioning about the fact that they don't come from source markets .

It's very difficult to get local guides , and even if you do get local guides , you typically get them just for the day . They'll join you for a particular part of the trip , and that's the case with many adventure travel trips . You have a local expert .

Sometimes it's mandated locally , other times because , obviously , you want to employ locals , um , but your very mission is to actually have local people operating these trips , even if it is a side hustle . That's something that's also unique , um , because I think some of the people that are we rotors have successful careers .

It's not as if they are looking for this as a there as a as a primary source of income . They're actually looking to do this because they don't want to work at JP Morgan full-time , or they work at JP Morgan because I think one of your WeRoters fits that description . So , yeah , tell us a little bit more about that .

I'd love to hear a little bit more about these travel coordinators .

As we rode her , as we call them , like so as a passenger , let's say was spotted by our travel coordinator as being like OK , she could be a great travel coordinator . Then she applied to become one , a great travel coordinator . Then she applied to become one .

She smashed it , as expected by her previous travel coordinator , and then we scouted her as country manager . So she quit her corporate life and right now venturing into startup , being the whole market there , right ?

So I think that stories like this happen all the time in WeRode not obviously just for WeRode , because I think that stories like this happen all the time in WeRoad , not obviously just for WeRoad , because I think that more or less 35% of the team of WeRoad is also composed of travel coordinator , which is incredible because you basically have all the people working

for you and with you that are the ultimate stakeholder that everything works fine , right and well . So it's incredible and 80% of the people travel at least once a year on a WeRoad trip , which is one of the benefits we offer to our employees , right ? So this makes our community just being so so melted one with each other that enables us to stay as you .

You said how do you keep the experience together ? I think this is a secret , right ? So have our communities so intertwined with each other that you literally have always millions of eyes on delivering the best one possible on earth , right ? So ?

You know how many people I I've interviewed in these years working in the tour operating industry and saying have you ever been in one of the trips to design ? No , right , and I was like , okay , but it happens so many times , whereas for us it's literally , I ask , a developer . Have you ever run a WeRoad trip ?

Yes , I've been to these free markets with a WeRoad group as a travel coordinator .

I've done two trips on the other side of the world as a WeRoader , because it's one of the benefits , and then , for once , I didn't want to think about the group and it's a developer , and this seems the thing that is more distant from our group travel experience , whereas imagine how cool user experience interface it could design for our roaders or for our travel

coordinators , having been one of each of them , right . So this , I think it's another key element that we try to foster as much as we can with our people strategy , right , which is right now also my focus . And also , I think , another aspect to keep the experience together and a cool one growing up is fostering feedback .

Since day one , we are , I mean , not only fond but a little bit geeky about gathering and analyzing and implementing feedback coming from our re-roaders , and we have an internal , you know , survey system that has an incredible filling rate , which is around 75% of the people traveling with us fill the survey telling us how it went , how the coordinator was , and

everything that we do is based on the feedback of our ultimate re-roaders . And it's so intertwined in our operations that , since day one , the score that you can give to a travel coordinator has never gone beyond nine , right out of 10 . And also of the experience , it's always been around nine , which is outstanding for the industry average , right ?

And so we asked ourselves , okay , perfect , but we got to 100,000 re-orders in seven years . This year we're probably hitting one year . So how are we going to cope with not becoming a mass tour operator , right , so ? And providing mass experiences ?

And so we came up with innovation again , because we kept on innovating ourselves and we thought that the community could be the propeller right , so the enabler , of this innovation once again , and we gave the power to our community of travel coordinators to create the experiences on their own right .

So it's not just us designing the experiences that I was mentioning to you before , but it's directly the travel coordinator that designs the experience that our re-routers are going to do .

So we launched this project I think it was one year and a half ago and in the first six months of life we hit 8.6 million revenues just out of the project , which basically consists in enabling a travel coordinator to design , put on our website , negotiate services on our behalf and create the trip of their dreams right .

In this way , we were able to hit two targets One , retaining travel coordinators that have seen the world with us but still they're missing few destinations that we didn't have strategically in the plan , because you know it's okay to maybe develop Antarctica , but I don't invest one year of work in developing Antarctica if I have just one trip , but a coordinator that

has that as a dream develop it gets his group , it becomes the best ambassador , the happiest ambassador at the same time , and we've been able to expand our experiences portfolio , giving the power to the community .

On the other side , we were able to retain those travel coordinators that thought , okay , you know , I was a doctor , but maybe this travel thing is my thing . I want to make it a job , right ? So , in this way , enabling people to create their own experiences and propose it to other travel coordinators was something that we spotted as a business opportunity .

So we created this sort of curated marketplace that we called WeRodeX more or less like relating to the TEDx concert , right .

So this was also , I think , something very crucial in the last couple of years to shape our future , and right now , thanks to this project , we've been able to launch in one year , more than 400 different itineraries and we're close to cover the whole world in terms of destinations where we wrote as landed right .

So , also , like things like this , we could be pointed at crazy people giving all the power in the hands of others and taking the responsibility as tour operators , but we literally believe in the community power , the in humans .

Obviously we are very entrepreneurial , so we take obviously we take risks , but these people have been you been selected and have experienced what we road means and how we design trips , and they're the best people to do the experiences instead of us .

I mean , they backed away from it and they've recently launched this icons product , and so they're no longer really actively in this space , despite everyone's concerns and fears that all of a sudden , they were going to be this huge player in group travel or alternative travel options that would take people away from group travel , since they were booking their own

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The other things that stood out to me when I was doing some research and preparing for our conversation was this idea of community-driven model , which has not really been applied successfully elsewhere .

I know there's always been efforts to try and get feedback and try and adapt product based on traveler comments , but not to the level where you actually have coordinators designing and offering their own itineraries .

And I think the part of that that's so clever is just that the product experience is paramount , but specifically the operational excellence , like the delivery of that , but the making sure that you're coming up with traveling concepts that resonate with people and actually they ultimately enjoy so building out those itineraries and giving them the flexibility to design

itineraries , because so often on a group trip there are you mentioned this at the beginning one of the pain points is that you kind of have a diverse group with different interests and people are pulling in different directions .

People want free time , other people want to be told what to do , people thought dinner was included and you just kind of see this dynamic between a group if it's not cohesive it doesn't gel well and that makes all the difference .

You have a great guide and a great group , you have a great trip and obviously you're trying to de-risk that by making sure you have a great coordinator who's actively involved and the trip can be customized to make sure that everyone has a great experience . So I think it's so clever and clearly why your business is scaling so rapidly .

So it's so exciting to have this conversation with you at this stage , because you guys are at that point now where , especially with the new funding , with your global expansion plans , where the business is a rocket ship like you're just absolutely set to take off because you've got so many of the foundational elements in place .

And really now it's more a question , I would say , and I'm keen to get your answer to this but it's more about getting the word out about WeRoad , which I'm sure is part of the reason we're having this conversation is more people just actually know the business and the brand .

So on that journey , one of the things that I know you recently acquired was the actual domain name , the com , and I'd love for you to tell us that that was a journey . Yeah , tell us a little bit about how that all came to be .

So I think it's a seven-year-long story , or eight-year-long story , because it was owned , this domain , by an old Japanese guy and it was so tough to retrieve it that at a certain point also , our CPTO went to Japan to see if the company that initially owned the domain was still alive or not , or the host provider was still alive or not .

So it took a lot of effort to get it , but finally this year we made it , and the moment in which we got it was incredible in terms of timing , because it coincided with the launch of our international trips , right ? So what better way than launching international cross-market trips than having a com website , right ?

So what better way than launching international cross-market trips than having a com website , right ? So that was an incredible milestone achieved and it was a team effort to retrieve that .

And I think also entrepreneurs need to think about these things in the early days because otherwise it could become very , very tough later down the line right to to reach such such an objective .

I know that I've read a couple of articles leading up to our conversation , just because obviously you brought an executive from booking so we can talk about him in a moment . But your new CEO , which ? And then the funding rounds and , just so you know , andrea , the new CEO .

Your growth is scaling significantly , so , yeah , so tell us a bit about where you are today and some of those expansion plans that you have in place .

You know , as we said in the very early days and the beginning of this chat together , there was no such a thing in Spain either , and people that traveled with other people that they don't know were pointed at oh my God , you , you're a weirdo kind of because you don't have friends , right .

So we launched there , then in the UK , then in France , then in Germany , with the objective of having the same vertical internationalization strategy into those markets , so planting a seed that can go beyond a travel experience but can literally become a local traveler , passionate traveler community , right ?

So that's , I think , also why we grew so fast , in spite of the pandemic that was exactly in the middle of the launching plans . But because the need of , you know , creating contacts and connections between people of our generation was amplified after the pandemic , right .

So there was a big rebounce and in all the waves , let's say , of the pandemic itself , we've always been able to grasp that need , interpret it , to change destinations in order not to leave people alone . Right so our mission was literally that of fighting loneliness . That need to be interpreted to change destinations in order not to leave people alone .

Right so our mission was literally that of fighting loneliness across this year , and I think that's also why the market responded so well , because it was literally yearning and looking for it . So there's always been at the basis , let's say , this product , this famous product market , fit at the ground basics of our success .

So , right now , what we're doing is okay . We've basically internationalized across all the major European markets .

Right , so we have our website localized in all languages , which is something that we think is paramount , not only to obviously be understood by everybody in those markets , but also to create a relationship with the local millennial , because imagine , like relating to a website that talks your language , that talks your slang , that uses your tone of voice , which is

something that we love and we are fond of in our marketing campaigns , in our marketing communications , and relating it before a trip during your daily life right , so that also was something strategic Building not just a tour operator but mainly building a brand , and that's also why we do a lot of events .

I think in Italy we did in one year , more than 1,000 events and we had more than 20,000 attendees in 2023 . So , basically , all for the passengers . We do just in events , right . So things like this aren't very common , I would say , for a tour operator or travel brand right , because they don't care about those things .

But for us , given that community is at the center of the internationalization and the localization strategy , it's fundamental right . So we have it since the very , let's say , early days in a new community . So what will happen next , after having conquered , let's say , and planted a seed into this market ?

Obviously , the objective is that of growing the volumes of ReRodas traveling with us in those markets to foster our local presence in the key cities , with events , campaigns and travel coordinators , at the same time as a , let's say , go-to-market strategy , but also testing out new markets without a local presence .

That's the weroadcom , let's say , project that we have launched . What does this mean ?

It means opening up to people living in Ireland , in the Netherlands , in the Nordics , in the Balkans , to travel with English , let's say as a common language , right , but to travel with international groups , which is something , I think , a little bit different than the international English-speaking competition is doing because they're fishing mainly from the US , new

Zealand , australia and UK pond , let's say , whereas what we are doing from the core of Europe is fishing from those countries which have been somehow neglected right by the radar of international group travel operators .

And I mean , I can tell you , like super spoilers , the first booking coming through in the last weeks , because it's a matter of weeks , are coming from the Nordics , are coming from Denmark , from Finland , from Sweden , from Ireland , from Poland , right .

So all countries where we wanted to test out whether we could be a solution for the local millennials as well , before launching and venturing into igniting a local community . And we wanted also to propose these sort of trips to our more mature destiny , more mature markets .

Imagine an italian okay , one of the reasons traveling with other italians is because our english is crap . Let's say it very , very transparently , right , so ? So if you put an italian into , into maybe an international group , they , they might struggle I mean , we might struggle , right , sometimes , whereas there are also Italians that travel around the world .

We are the best migrants in the world , let's say that . Instead . Have an international mindset , right , they are the Erasmus generation , right ? So instead of traveling with other Italians . They would love and yearn to travel with people coming from other countries in Europe , right ?

So this kind of trip maybe would enable us and our hope is that it will enable us to gather a different target is not targeted yet , right , which is literally the Erasmus generation across across Europe . So let's see what will happen in the in the upcoming months . But they say it's already somehow promising and that's good .

Douglas's background is research from Focusrite , so I always read their reports and the 2024 US TourTaker report which came out at the start of the year , was fascinating because it highlights one of the most important things related to our conversation today is that when they think about youth travel , which is kind of the 18 to 34 category that they identified that

adventure traveler young travelers are three times as likely to take an adventure travel trip , and then they're also they also have a higher interest in experiential trips , culinary , and so clearly some of the things that you would be addressing by giving the coordinators the opportunity to kind of customize the itinerary . So that's sort of one other aspect .

I've talked a lot about that on our show with companies like Dharma that have created trips around people's passion points and like why they travel versus where , which I think is a really compelling concept . And so when you look at like thematic trips , like yoga retreats or architecture , how do you build those into trips , do you ?

Because I was looking at your website and I was seeing , like obviously the trip trip types the 360 express beach safari , northern lights , um . So I was wondering how you get to some of those thematic , like the yoga , as being one example , because clearly that's a big industry unto itself , uh , doing yoga retreats , um .

But yeah , how do you decide on what themes to bring into your trips and what themes to uh , um , to build into the marketing ?

Let's say , world Big players tend , maybe , to acquire a smaller tour operator that covers this target , especially because you know , the smaller the niche , the more niche the target , the higher the competency you need to have to deliver an experience that is worth living and sharing , right ?

So sometimes an acquisition could bring along both the expertise and the consumer at the same time , right . But this is not how we operate , let's say , because we're kind of , as we said before , community driven . So our approach is more OK . What does the community need ? What does the community request ?

So we start always from raw data about traffic , about trends , about our travel coordinators . At the same time , we put this all together and we try to suggest a potential thematic trip to our travel coordinator community that can create them directly .

So , relating to the project of WeRodeX that I was discussing with you a few minutes ago , thematic trips is something that we see as being key to the success and the development of the long tail of our experiences . In that sense , right now already , I think we have 30% out of the long tail of our experiences .

In that sense , right now , already , I think we have 30% out of the itineraries created that could be labeled as thematic because the person that created those itineraries is passionate for that .

So we have diving themed trips , and we're not experts of diving , but I can grant you that at least there are 100 travel coordinators that have a diving license right , and they can't wait but organize their own diving trip or the same thing .

We we did a few uh , a few weeks ago , so my co-founder , which is geek about architectures , we created a , an architecture themed uh itinerary that's filled in like one week with people passionate about architecture in south of france , right .

So , um , this is our approach also in tackling thematic , thematic trips bottom up , completely , so literally starting from from the target , and we think that this having the market itself picking what , what they like is also the key to success , but also the key to the scalability of the project , because it could be , you know , the focusing from providing all other

customers with incredible experience around the world if we just focus on a niche , whereas in this way we're able to do both things at the same time and also fight mass tourism , because imagine , um , one of our biggest destination has always been , since day one , I think , jordan right .

We've also been somehow , uh proudly , contributing to the economic growth of jordan in these , in these years , also during the pandemic , working hand in hand with the local government , et cetera . But as soon as you move a certain amount of people into a destination , the risk of becoming mass is behind the corner right .

So imagine having our travel coordinator community finding new twists , new itinerary , new paths , new local providers that we from Milan , from HQ , from our internal tour operator , don't have , let's say , the time to invest on all those aspects .

Well , this is exactly what fight against mass tourism is right and also , in terms of impact , is something that we can be very proud of .

And you're also clearly , as you just pointed out , that you don't run yoga retreats . So you'll also clearly , as you just pointed out , that you know you're not , you don't run yoga retreats .

So , like you'll , you'll build in the most relevant elements or the themes that make the most sense , because you're consumer centric , you're traveler centric is , I guess , the way I would . I would put it back to you , and that's clearly the key to your success . So I got a couple other questions for you .

I know that we don't have hours and hours , but I've got a couple more questions . I really wanted to ask you Go for it Given the global expansion plans and the latest Series B raise . I'm very keen to know , with bringing Andrea D'Amico into the business , how that has worked with the team and how you guys now .

Is that bringing a certain corporate element to the business ? I'm assuming the answer is probably going to be not , but I mean , he's obviously his background of booking . What was kind of the reason to bring him in to help scale the business globally ?

Bringing in Andrea was especially driven by the vision that we have , as we wrote , of becoming like the biggest operator out there for our generation , for group travel experiences right and building the biggest travel community . And , given his experiences , he went through the same process with Bookingcom .

So he entered the company when the size of Bookingcom was exactly that we wrote right now it was 100 employees more or less and he brought Bookingcom to the size that he is right now leading EMEA , so SMD , during the pandemic , right . So with 1,500 people spread across all of Europe in all different offices .

So he went through thick and thin in another company and his experience was incredible , especially when we first worked together , because obviously when you onboard a CEO from outside , it could be amazing or it could be terrible in terms of match right . So it's a very tricky move if you don't find the right match .

So we started working together based on consultancy , and the consultancy was internationalization .

I was leading the international expansion as director at the time and I was in London in the middle of the pandemic and one of the first conversations we had was incredible , because he expanded so many different markets in his career that for the first time I had the chance to talk with somebody that went through the same challenges that I was going through as a

first-timer , because , you know , as founders , you grow with the company . I mean , I did my first hire in WeRoad right so it was so . So I think Right , so it was so .

So I think inspiring and at the same time , helpful to have somebody that can share his experience in not making certain mistakes or taking certain strategic decisions better than we've done in the past . So I immediately found it extremely , extremely powerful . Imagine that he launched APAC for Bookingcom so things like that , right . Never been to Southeast Asia .

Boom Singapore , go for it . Launch Bookingcom here right , so a guy from Rome . So that was his story .

On top of that , I think another key element was the fit in terms of culture fit , I mean , with us and the , we can combine both the expertise of somebody that has run a business to the scale of Bookendcom and three wild , innovative , out-of-the-box thinking , community-driven founders .

That will enable us to always , at scale , keep the focus on people and community and building a cool brand at the center of the growth strategy , right ? So this is the mixture , I would say , of elements that right now builds into a solid background and pillar at WeRoad .

many travel companies , kind of the holy grail . Everyone wants to eventually crack the US market right . There's lots of opportunity to grow businesses in lots of markets , but eventually at some point the conversation shifts to when are you going to actually go into the US market ?

Very successful business in areas where other what would be competitors are either non-existent or underserved because they're English language tours , and so , looking at your growth trajectory , I mean you're double doubling the business in Italy , doubling the business in Spain . You're growing in France .

Yeah , germany's another massive market , especially for Germans traveling outbound . I've spoken to a number of people on this show that come back even Destination Canada , talking about bringing Germans to see the Northern Lights . I know it's a big focus for my friends at Tor Radar as well .

The German market they've moved into and translated their website , and so the German market is massive for guided travel too . So you have all of these markets that you still have major growth potential in , but at some point you can obviously look at Australia , the US , canada .

So I'm curious to know where those more traditional adventure travel markets fit on your overall expansion plans .

That , also , like the fact that we're bubbly , I think it's part of the pie , both of us . But , no jokes apart , I think there might be also a fit there . But before taking that leap , what is needed , I think , is a different amount of capital , right ?

Because at the same time , we've been able to create what we've been able to create in Europe , doing a lot with less the least that we could ask for . Right , to prove that we can be sustainable , those economically , I mean , our first market is already profitable . We're investing everything into the growth of the other markets .

So before venturing , I think , into those markets , you literally would need to both have put at scale all your core markets and maybe get a little bit more money to build that up . Why this ? Because we're not a B2B business , right ?

That does I don't know a joint venture with a local distributor of tours , whatever , but we're a direct to consumer brand , so our objective is building a brand , and building a brand a direct to consumer brand could be very expensive in terms of marketing , uh investments right , so , uh , that's also one of the reasons why we we haven't tackled that , but definitely

one day or another , I think , we will do the leap .

In terms of the trade market because you mentioned direct-to-consumer , that's one of the things I was keen to ask you as well is that the younger demographic ? There's been this big focus on direct-to-consumer , and are travel agents relevant anymore ?

What would be your view on that , given the business you run , the market you serve , the type of product that you offer Is there a role for travel advisors or trade and , if so , how are you guys looking at that ?

And a lot of the focus that we put in developing WeRoad was also providing the best and cutting-edge digital experience to our customers , to base our growth also on a compelling , cutting-edge website that could drive growth , as the big companies in travel do right , so as Airbnb and Bukicom , for example .

So relying on intermediaries would mean not having such a linear digital experience right , because at the end you purchase something that is present on another website and you don't get it , et cetera , but rather have the digital experience itself being part of the , the WeRoad experience , right .

So that also , I think it was also something that we strategically put ahead in terms of priorities , versus like maybe gaining more market share with a trade , let's say , deal .

So , also in terms of B2B , the strategy is more like partnering with brands , partnering with welfare companies , partnering with local , very , very much local realities that could lead us and be very much localized into the country , versus major distributor or wholesaler of trips . So this is more or less was the strategy up until now .

And then the other thing I wanted to ask you about and , if you don't mind me sharing Erica one of the questions I wanted to ask you to finish off , was what you're most excited and looking forward to , uh , for we wrote in the year ahead , but the part I was going to mention , of course , which I hope you're okay with sharing , is that you are also

expecting and you have your first child on the way , when we were catching up , uh , before recording , sharing our story about being a lonely planet , being unexpectedly expecting , and it was like the best adventure that we've ever gone on was just throwing kids into the mix .

And so , um , because oftentimes when you look at travel graphs and when people travel , as soon as they have kids , they stop traveling , and our mission and commitment to each other and to them was that we were not . We were not going to stop traveling .

We were going to take them with us everywhere we went and they were just going to be part of the journey . And so that was my and that's why I wanted to bring this in because obviously you are so passionate about running your business .

You're now about to become a mom and have your first child , and that's going to be an amazing journey as well , but clearly you're going to be able to do both and be able to grow this business and start a family . So it's an exciting time to speak to you for many reasons , including that .

So I hope you don't mind me sharing that , but I , so I wanted to ask what you're most looking forward to , which is clearly . That's why I had to put it out there , because obviously that has to be the most exciting , for sure . But but in terms of work and everything else you're focused on , what are you looking forward to ?

So I hope I've learned enough out of community management to be able to and venture in these , uh , in this , in this new

community . No , but but jokes apart , I think that obviously it's not the end of travel , I hope , because otherwise we're all lost .

But rather I've seen across the years I mean seven years , eight years of business is a lot People that have worked in WeRoad and that have been community members and still are , have changed their lives and , you know , becoming a family at a certain point is also part of , uh , these , these life changes .

But we , we've never left alone people , obviously , uh that that ventured into into this , uh , into this world .

We don't have yet , I would say , trips tailored , uh , tailored for families , but we have loads of our travel coordinators that also are , um , parents , and I think the coolest bit is that it's also a way for them to to be individuals at the same time , because the risk that I see sometimes , uh , is that of you know , as you said , switch everything else off ,

whereas I think the biggest lesson that we can give to the people that will follow us in the history , right . So kids and stuff is that I'm not losing the individuality of of people , right , and I think that also like having a little bit of your own space in in the future and maybe in a trip , and it's also something paramount .

Uh , obviously , bringing them along . It's a different experience , right , but I would , I would go for both and not not neglect one or the other , because otherwise , uh , you also , I think , educate them in a way that they don't think about themselves and their well-being as being paramount for for a healthy growth and a healthy family absolutely well .

Like when they opened up the Oakland office , they went to travel for a couple of months in South America with their young kids and they discovered that , unlike a backpack which can kind of separate you from locals , with kids they play together at the park and so it kind of brings cultures and people together , even across languages .

And so she was a strong advocate , as am I , for traveling with kids , and but it has not really been a commercial success . So that book series because despite the fact her , myself and obviously yourself going to be included in this will remain advocates for travel with young families .

So I would love nothing more than for you guys to also break the mold with that , that you guys actually create your national expansion plan with a community .

So I think you know I found it incredibly inspiring and also insightful in equal measure , because what you're onto is a very successful business concept that will impact travelers globally and ultimately improve people's lives .

I'm a big advocate for travel for that exact reason , and so you know , I'm very keen to see your continued growth and success and and you've got an incredible story to share and I really appreciate you taking the time to share .

Be sure to stay tuned for our next two episodes in our deep dive into adventure featuring Sean Mulhern from One Life Adventures and Travis Pittman from Tour Radar as well .

Don't forget to subscribe to be notified when new episodes go live of Travel Trends on Apple or Spotify , and make sure that you are registered to follow us on Instagram , youtube and LinkedIn so that you can see the latest video clips and highlights from these episodes . Thanks again for joining us . Until next time , safe travels .