Foreign. Welcome back to Trauma Rewired. Today we're bringing you one of our most popular episodes, one that resonated so deeply with our listeners that we knew it deserved a re release. We're revisiting our conversation with Kate Northrup on rest, a topic that for so many of us is deeply tied to trauma capacity and worthiness. If you've ever struggled to slow down, if rest feels unsafe or unproductive, or if your nervous system is stuck in survival mode,
this episode is for you. Kay is not only the author of Do Less, she's an expert in creating easeful financial business strategies. And she's an NSI certified coach who deeply understands how our nervous system shapes our ability to rest, receive and regulate. That's what makes her work so different. She doesn't just teach people how to make money, she helps them rewire their relationship to money. So that financial well being isn't just about numbers in a bank account. It's
about safety, stability and capacity. And that's why we have to tell you about her upcoming workshop. It is free and it's live. It's called the Good with Money three day experience, happening April 17th, 22nd and 24th. And this isn't just about money. It's about healing the way you relate to it so you can
feel more ease, more trust expansion in your life. And make sure to sign in@Katenorthrup.com because if you end up deciding to do her Relaxed Money program and you've joined through that link, you'll also get some special bonuses, including a teaching that I did for her Relaxed Money program on the neurosomatics of money and some surprise bonuses from us. This is an incredible opportunity to experience firsthand how nervous system
regulation can completely change your financial reality. So whether you're new to this episode or listening again for deeper integration, we invite you to settle in, take a deep breath, and soak in some of Kate's brilliance as we explore the deep connection between rest, capacity and abundance. So I'd love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself, Kate, and why this topic is so important to you. Like, why did you write a whole book on doing less and helping people find more
ease more rest? Yeah, you know, it's so funny. Like in this moment I'm just really noticing I'm kind of emotional, which is so interesting and unusual at the beginning of a podcast. But I think that like this is such a full circle moment because when I wrote Do Less, it came out in 2019, of course I had Heard of the nervous system. I mean, I'm here on planet Earth. I really didn't know what I know now. I didn't know about how trauma lives in the body. I didn't know about
overworking patterns and trauma. I didn't know about productivity as a trauma response. I didn't know what you ladies know, what you folks, your whole thing is about. And I remember my coach at the time, Ra Goddess, in the end of 2019. So my book had been out nine months. I had written it. You know, it takes a long time for books to come out. So I finished it at the end of 2018. No, 2017. Oh, my God, 2017. It's like
100 years ago. And she handed me this book called Patriarchy stress disorder by Dr. Valerie Rain. And as my friend Megan Watterson says, I just read the title of the book, and, like, my heart fell out of my butt. I was just like, oh, my God, this is literally everything. And it was like this whole. It was like me seeing the Matrix all of a sudden and realizing that the reason I wrote Do Less is because of the deeper trauma patterning in my own lineage and in womankind, but also humankind around
productivity and basically running. Because we have been so programmed to be afraid to be still and to be afraid to feel. And so what so, so cool about that is, well, a. I'm working on another book that actually directly incorporates it. But in retrospect, what I realized is my first book, Money A Love Story, and my second book, Do Less, the curriculum that I teach in them, so many of the exercises that I teach in them work because they actually do work to
heal the nervous system. I just didn't know that. And so it's such a testament, I think, to the wisdom of. Of our bodies that, like those came through me as part of my own healing journey. Even though no one told me, oh, this is how you heal the nervous system. Productivity can very much be a trauma response. Obsession with achievement, you know, all of those things. And so that's kind of the bigger
picture of my own work around that. But I will say, just from a personal perspective, you know, I come from a long line of overwhelming working women. And, you know, I watched my. I watched my granny. Her granny's life motto was, don't ask for a lighter pack. Ask for a stronger back. And she was the oldest North American woman to ever climb to Mount Everest Base Camp at the age of 84. My mom spent most of her career just really
in go mode. My dad as well, and all My whole family. And so I wrote Do Less sort of as this healing manual for myself and hopefully for my daughters and hopefully to open up a possibility for more lives that are allowed to have people be instead of do. Oh, I love that. Or in addition. I'll say in addition. Yeah, totally. In addition is a great way to put it. And I love that so much and can relate so much to coming from a lineage of workaholics
who really just. It was modeled so much and it becomes so deeply woven into our neural architecture, into our nervous system, to only feel safe with that level of productivity. And I do want to talk a little bit about stress physiologically and the importance of rest from a physical and from a nervous system perspective. Because I think it helps people to understand and deconstruct some of that when you know, know kind of what's going on in the
body. And just like you were saying, you know, we used to think of trauma as this psychological phenomenon and now we know it's, it's physiological, it's experienced through the body, through the nervous system. And stress is a huge component of that experience. It's a root cause of disease and mental health decline. And when we experience a stressor or a threat, our body's primary goal is our
survival. And it's ancient, kind of complicated and pretty brilliant way to do that is through our stress response system that mobilizes our resources, it prepares us for action, and it's adaptive. But if it is occurring chronically, that's a problem. And so these responses, these stress responses that happen in our body, they are a necessary part of everyday life. And we're not looking for a life without activation. Nervous system regulation isn't that for flat line of
being calm or Zen all the time. But it's really that ability to modulate between these states to get activated when it's appropriate and then to be able to rest and recover and adapt. But when we're facing that overwhelm all of the time, we can't respond anymore to the stress. There's no escape. We're constantly suppressing and repressing our body's natural stress relief and regulation. Actions like movement or vocalization or crying or shaking, these emotional response
responses that help us regulate. And then we get stuck in states of hypervigilance, constantly scanning the environment or our relationships, looking for threat. And we're having that stress reaction over and over again inside of our body. And it's just not meant to be long term. And I think too it's important for people to Understand that, like stress is stress, our survival mind doesn't distinguish between social threat or a physical threat, or doing this podcast or having a meeting.
Our nervous system is just taking in all of this information all the time from our sensory systems about our external environment and our internal environment, our balance, our orientation, knowing where our body is in space. And if that information is unclear or blurry or inaccurate, that's already enough to initiate a stress response, because I might fall,
I might hurt myself, I can't make an accurate prediction. And then these signals all of the time are coming in through our nervous system, making it up to our brainstem and then to our limbic system, where they're interpreted by many different areas of the brain. The amygdala working with the hypothalamus to turn our emotions into our physical experience. And we start to have that fear response
through the HPA axis. And now we have all of these hormones, adrenaline and cortisol, moving through the body. And if this keeps going all of the time, and we're in that dysregulated state. We talked about this in our burnout episode, but just a little bit condensed so that people have this information as we dive into the mindset and the beliefs and the cultural aspects. When we have too much cortisol all of the time, it keeps us in a state of high alert or a
low grade survival response. So it doesn't let the body shift back into a parasympathetic state. And then it becomes really difficult to sleep or to rest. That just doesn't feel safe. And it's this chemical or hormonal obstacle to rest. And when we have that, that's what's called adrenal sensitivity, too much cortisol all of the time, and then that leads to those health outcomes like diabetes or muscle weakness,
osteoporosis. And then over time, we can also lose our ability to produce cortisol because our system doesn't have the resources for that. And then we can move into adrenal burnout or fatigue. So that's when the adrenal glands can't keep creating cortisol. We don't have the resources anymore. And then we start to move into an adrenaline response. So now instead of having
cortisol in our system all the time, we're actually running on adrenaline. And that pushes us into an even higher level of hypervigilance, a heightened level of survival, because adrenaline is our short term survival hormone. And so you get a big inflammatory response that can lead to autoimmune. Lots of disease state in the body and it pushes your system into this strained level, this very high stress level all of the time. And then eventually we move into full blown
adrenal burnout where our system can't produce adrenaline either. And that's when it's going to flip us into chronic fatigue where we don't have the energy to keep going because our metabolism is in a deficit, our cortisol production is in a deficit, our adrenaline production is in a deficit. So there's really nothing left in our body to create energy on demand. And so you're left in this constant state of fatigue or malaise, like you just can't have the energy to do anything anymore.
And that's when we really move into that deep burnout and illness. Chronic sleep disturbances can be such a big problem for so many reasons too. Like, there's an importance of rest, is what I'm learning is that I need to rest a little bit throughout the day so that at the end of the day I'm not just looking to totally offload my entire day and have this big expectation of like,
oh, and now I'm going to go to sleep. And so what I really think about too, because from the burnout and functional freeze conversation, one of the things that came up for us was that a lot of times we can engage in activities that we think may be restful or refueling, but actually it depletes us a little bit more as we go on. And I really think about
for rest being my new horizon. I really think about the integration that I lose when I don't get a good night's sleep and how that really has big effects on, on my cognitive health and really even my emotional well being the next day. And when we think about after we work out and we intentionally stress our bodies through weight training or aerobic activity, and then we need rest time on the back end of that so that we don't harm ourselves any further so
we don't get injured. And so it's that same, it's that integration that gives us that positive adaptation and resilience that also happens when we sleep and that slowing down that needs to happen. And so like four, some of the cognitive health when we sleep, part of our brain's integration process is coming up with solutions that we might have for
some potentially complex problems in our lives. And for anyone who suffered with insomnia or maybe moms that don't sleep for those first couple of years of their children's lives is also who I think of. And I was diagnosed with insomnia at a pretty early age. And I know how difficult it is after many nights of sleep to not be able to come out of the brain fog, for the emotional piece to have more rumination on more negative thoughts versus positive experiences that I'm
having. And sleep is crucial for memory consolidation, for learning. And, you know, the brain also relieves itself of, like, many toxins throughout the night. And I think for the. For the emotional piece, that recalling of negative experiences, it also drives depression. It, like, drives depression and even an increase in mood swings. And I definitely have experienced that on top of, like, it can get hard to parse out, like, what's complex trauma,
what's insomnia, what's my neurodivergence? And it just becomes this, like, overwhelming piece of, like, wow, this is pretty overwhelming. So I'm interested to know, Kate, from your perspective, what comes up for you when we talk about rest and recovery and, like, what it's been like in your journey and. And how you came into the place of rest and recovery. Serves my business. It serves my relationships well. What happened is I'm glad you brought up new motherhood for
me. I was the total achiever type. Academic pressure, early success in business, yada, yada, yada. And then I got pregnant with my first daughter, and I have never been so tired in my life. And people kept saying, oh, just wait until the second trimester. You'll have this huge energy burst. But that never happened. And I was sleeping, like, 14 hours a day. It was very bizarre to have been such a physically mentally capable person and suddenly be taken
out. And then my daughter was born. I had quite a traumatic experience with her birth, and then she was really sick. So the first year of her life, it just continued. And she had severe eczema and sometimes would be waking up every night, every 10 minutes, screaming and scratching herself. And her sheets were bloody all the time. I mean, it was like, this was not what was on the literature in terms of motherhood. Everyone else was like, oh, it's the best time of my life. And I was like, it's
like a horror movie at my house. And I couldn't sleep. I had severe postpartum insomnia. And it was the first time in my life that I had a problem that I couldn't overcome by being smarter or more capable or working harder. None of the usual solutions that I had worked. And yet a year into my daughter's first year of life. So we sat with our accountant and we looked at our numbers, and despite having worked less than half the amount I had ever worked in my adult life. That
year we had made more money than we ever had before, and our. Our income source was our business. So it wasn't like there was some other. This was like, if I wasn't working, there wasn't me and my husband running together. And it was such a light bulb moment for me because while I would not go through that year again if you paid me, it was awful. I thought, huh, that's so interesting. I have been working my entire adult life as though the number of hours and the amount of effort is the
most important thing and actually what ended up happening. And, you know, there's. There's so many changes that happen in the maternal brain and obviously nervous system all connected, but I had become instantly focused on only what mattered because the survival of my child depended on it. And I had zero fucks to give and zero energy for anything extraneous nothing. And as a result, that ended up being a very good
business strategy. And I thought, wow, okay, so if I could make more money than ever before, working less than half the amount while completely distracted, you know, not distracted, but while completely devoted to keeping this baby alive and like, vaguely staying sane. And on some days that was not. That was debatable, like, in
terms of my mental health really suffered. I thought, well, maybe during less difficult years there could be some things that I could point to or look back at and research as effective strategies. And, you know, I'm happy to walk through what some of those were, but that was my own experience, really realizing, oh, more is not necessarily always better. And it was my own body and my daughter's body that brought me home to that truth. And I'm so grateful because nothing teaches us a lesson
like an embodied experience. Wow. Yeah, that is really inspiring for me to hear about as I'm like, in this own place of. My own place of navigating, not doing more all of the time, and just allowing the seeds that are planted some space and air to breathe and grow. And what a beautiful example of that from your experience.
And I do think it's really the most powerful experiences we have are those experiential times where that's enough to start to shift the paradigm inside of us and be like, oh, maybe there's something else totally possible. And just total side note, I relate to your daughter so much. I was also born with eczema all over, so I feel that it's still how my nervous system communicates to me sometimes when my stress load is too high. And as you were talking about that
beautiful shift in your business. I was thinking too, it is a place where I'm navigating in my own life and how it's a real deconstruction and it's a challenge coming from a complex trauma background because so much of the patterning that happens for someone with developmental trauma is to be in this state of hyper vigilance all the time. There's real changes to our brain. Our amygdala actually changes in size and we're perceiving, we're more sensitive, our alarm detector is more sensitive to
threat. We have less ability to put on that parasympathetic brake, less vagal tone. And there's just this felt sense inside of the body a lot of times that it's not safe. Rest is this really vulnerable state and there's a letting go of control
and a certain amount of presence. And our brains are just so primed for that threat that there is a huge component of this that's continuously working with my nervous system to create that felt sense of safety inside and then to starting to work with regulating the HPA axis because then as I'm perceiving threat all the time now I do have that adrenaline and cortisol which is going to keep me in a more of a high alert, keep
triggering the F responses in my body. And then inside it feels like I need to run, I need to fight. And so navigating that I think it's so important to have the cognitive shifts and then couple it with practical tools, strategies to work directly with the nervous system and start to re pattern that at that neurological level. Because that deep nervous system pattern, just like you were talking about, about seeing the trauma pattern that have been driving your behavior, it really comes out
everywhere, right? It impacts us physically, but also emotionally and cognitively. It changes our relationships, how we show up at work. And so it's such a layered topic to dive into for sure. When I think of the lack of safety to rest in business, I really think about the podcast
actually. And Kate, what you were going back to, one of the things that we learned here as we were experiencing so much growth with trauma rewired, it felt like we needed to deliver and deliver and deliver and deliver and keep delivering and delivering and depleting ourselves. And we learned, I think it was, we Learned in season 2, we took like a 12 week break and we experienced massive growth and we were like, oh my God, we're not really even doing anything. And it goes back to the seeds being
planted and it Was like, oh, now we've learned. And now we actually take two breaks a year because we're like, let's capitalize on the rest and the growth. Because there's a matrix there. Like you're talking about this matrix that you can finally get this measurable experience of. Like when you step out of it and you're like, oh, I've been playing the wrong game. I've been programmed into a game that's
not letting me win. And as soon as you can start to unplug from that a little bit and then you get into like these new awarenesses of like, oh, that's not real. What is real to my success? My growth is resting and pulling away from this. And then it serves our regulation as we've come to learn, just really serves the podcast. And like there's so
many different types of rest that we need. We need that cognitive and mental rest which for me that comes in times of like silence or maybe some gentle music, grounding, being in nature. And there's this idea of emotional rest and I think self care can fall into that. Getting into emotional expression and practices, being witnessed, feeling heard, feeling seen, leading also into social rest. People go to social media thinking that like, oh, I'll get social connection,
I'll get the rest that I need. But social media is so activating and really leads to more deprivation. And then of course we have the physical rest that we all need. And passive and active is are different components of physical rest. And that could be like
napping or stretching. And for people who have ADHD or any other neuro type of neurodivergence, the research is showing that the sleep deprivation that occurs in neurodivergent people is even higher than the neurotypical individuals because there's delays in circadian rhythm and there's changes in melatonin production. And that's like a crucial chemical that our body needs for healthy sleep. But there's also an increased likelihood of someone with a neurodivergence having a medication
and medication induced sleep issues. Maybe someone's on a stimulant or a psychotropic medication that's commonly prescribed and those don't really support the success in non disturbed sleep cycle. Hey, trauma rewired listeners, we have something really special for you. We are so proud to align as affiliates with Kate Northrup's work because she brings real deep nervous system education into all of her programs. This just isn't another
mindset or money coaching program. This is about rewiring your relationship with money at the brain, body and emotional level so that you can actually feel ease, safety and abundance. That's why we're not just recommending this, we're attending it. KAIT is hosting a free live workshop, the Good with Money three day experience, on April 17th, 22nd and 24th, and we want you to join
us. Over these three days, you'll experience powerful money healing practices and start shifting your nervous system's relationship with money immediately. And because we deeply believe in this work, we're also offering a special bonus. If you attend the free workshop and decide to join Relaxed Money through our link kate northrup.comtr you'll get an
exclusive one hour kickoff training with me and Jennifer. And this will be a private session just for our community to prepare your nervous system before the program starts so that you have the capacity to fully integrate this work. And you'll also find teachings
from me throughout the program. But to access this bonus, you need to register through the link katenorthrup.comtr and when you do this, you're not only supporting yourself, but you're also supporting this podcast, allowing us to bring you powerful conversations every week. So if you're ready to shift your relationship with money in a deeply embodied way, join us for Good with money@katenorthrup.com tr. We cannot wait to
do this work alongside of you. Well, I really want to speak to the seasons and cycles because what was such a game changer for me was understanding similar, you know, not dissimilar to when I discovered the majesty of the nervous system. I tapped into our innate seasonality and cyclicality as humans around that same time that I discovered that we had made more money, but I had worked less.
But what was so fascinating, per, I love this example of you taking this 12 week break and your podcast growing even more. Because what we know is that we as humans are animals, which means we are nature. We don't hang out in nature. We don't need to connect with nature. We are nature. And so the same principles that govern trees and flowers and squirrels and grass and weather patterns, like, they govern
our bodies as well. Which is why grounding practices and all the data around, you know, earthing and being out in nature, we are instantly activating a parasympathetic response. Obviously it's more nuanced. Nuanced than that, but like going home literally to activate, accessing the outdoors, even if it's just a little sliver of light through an open window, like that is our
true nature. And so when I started to look at okay, well, if I had a beautiful rose, I wouldn't be like bashing it or berating it for not being in bloom all year long. Roses have a season, we know that they blame have a season. There's a season for planting, there's a season for, for sprouting, there's a season for being a little blossom, there's a season for being in full bloom, and then there's a season for going back to seed. And there, there is a
season for the pause. And then I started learning about regenerative agriculture and the metaphors for how we run businesses are so ripe and rich and fertile. And one thing, and you're talking about passive rest versus active rest for those of us who do have a history of trauma and quite frankly, like, I don't
really know if anybody doesn't. So for those of us who are human listening to this vodcast, one thing that I've noticed is that just as you were talking about Jennifer, just resting is not necessarily immediately available because being still can actually activate our hyper vigilance and it doesn't necessarily feel safe. And I know I've been through many, many periods of time in my life where that was the case. And I wish I had known what I know now, but I know it now, so that's good.
And the piece that really like I have brought in is this idea of planting cover crops. So for regenerative farmers, they know that the most important element in the success of their crops, of the fertility of what they're growing, is the quality of the soil, specifically the topsoil, the humus and the root word of human. And humus is the same and it means of the ground. And so I just love anything etymology
and anything that can really remind us of the truth. So I think a lot about our nervous system regulation as our own soil and our ability to access the richness of our lived experience as like an increased fertility in our soil. And what regenerative farmers know is that there's a season
to plant cover crops. And cover crops are things that you are planting that are you are not going to sell, but the act of growing them so they're not going to market, they're not cash crops, but the act of growing them actually nutrients and regenerates the soil. So for me as an entrepreneur and what I love to share is for people who have businesses or just really, it's really anybody, it doesn't have to be just entrepreneurs to think about what are the COVID
crops in our life? What are those times when we're doing something that actually does allow our brain to go into a different state, allows our body to go into a different state where we're not trying to monetize it. And it actually is providing the benefits of active rest and renutrienting our bodies, renutrienting our soil to improve our soil quality. So, you know, I have a friend who does a lot of knitting. She doesn't sell her knitting. Her. She makes money a totally different way.
Right. Coloring with my kids, doing different like stretching techniques, like what are. I mean other people call this hobbies. But I really, you know, I know so many achievement oriented people who just really don't have any hobbies. And then they get excited about a hobby and then they try to turn it into a business, which is fine, but it really then is no longer a cover crop. Then it's activating a whole other part of ourselves. And I love
making money. I think there's so much value in that. It's. I think it could be sacred. And I love to think about COVID crops in our life as a way to bring in active rest that's deeply regulating, that also allows us to wind down so that maybe more passive rest is more accessible later. I love that so much. Jennifer and I have been talking a lot with each other just about. It's not just about taking things away, but bringing
things into that restore and replenish. One of the things that has been really great for me in this season is I've been working a lot with like my voice and singing and doing vocal activation. And it gets to be just for me. It's not like something that I'm going to do to create a course on or it's just
this. It has become quite spiritual and has this huge impact on the health of my nervous system and working with my vocal cords, but finding more things like that that are just for the experience, for the being in it and the creativity. I think it's really, really, really, really important. And you mentioned a bit ago too, when you were talking about the time with your daughter, that there were strategies or things that you saw in terms of the business. Would you speak to that a little
bit about some of the things that you saw? Well, okay, there's so many things, but first I want to just say, and I'm sure you've talked about this before on previous episodes, but I want to highlight that there was something you said, Jennifer, to really get that when we are dysregulated and overworking and exhausting ourselves as a trauma response There are specific oppressive systems that really benefit from that. And for some of my people,
it's very activating in a good way. Like, it kind of lights this fire in their belly to feel like, oh, rest is actually revolutionary. So maybe I actually can do this to dismantle within myself these structures and systems that actually do keep people disempowered. So I wanted to say that because it's like a bigger. It's very personal, but it's also macro. And I believe we can all really
contribute to that on a micro level. And so with that, the two things that I want to point to are, number one, because I had zero time and zero energy, I had no ability to focus on anything that was not absolutely necessary in that first year of parenthood. And that sucked. But it was such a gift because it helped me to, by accident, really apply Pareto's principle. And Pareto's principle says that 20% of our actions will cause
80% of our results. And I think actually, if you do the math on a lot of businesses or a lot of workplaces, it's actually closer to 5% of what we do actually creates 95% of the results. So if you think about, for you to, you know, these podcast episodes and, like, devoting yourself and pouring your hearts and your presence into them and the way this show has
taken off, right. People are connecting to the resonance and the magnetism of presence in you too, versus and obviously the depth of knowledge and incredible research that goes into it. That level of magnetism and depth is available because you are taking those periods of rest both active and passive. And it allows the podcast to be part of that 20% or 15% or 10, five, whatever,
that then leads to all these results. I mean, I know nothing about your two businesses, but for most people I know, including myself, there's a lot we could just literally stop
doing. And so after that first year when I kind of, like, could pull my head above the water and things weren't so, like, emergent all the time, I did do an analysis and I looked at, okay, if I look at all my biggest wins in business, you know, getting my first book published, these various, like, higher income spikes, these moments of increased visibility that allowed our platform to grow, things like that. And I looked at what had directly contributed to those things. It was
only two kinds of tasks for me. One was connecting with people, and two was creating content. And so I was like, if I look at my calendar and I want everyone listening to do this, no matter what your career, if you are A stay at home parent. This still applies. There are 20% of the things that I do that create 80% of the connection with my children. They do not include, like having perfect birthday parties or, you know, like, we do so much
shit that doesn't matter. And so for everyone listening, identify an area of your life that you would like to enhance and look at what are all the tasks that I do in this area? What are my biggest wins in this area? And then draw a line from the things that are your biggest wins to the task that directly results in that win. And then take a line and cross out all the other tasks that are not identified. And you'll find you have a lot more time
available. But here's what's so important about the work that's discussed here in the work at NSI and all of the work you do, then it's like, yeah, okay, so cognitively I can know that I can eliminate 80% of the test, but I feel freaking unsafe when I do that. And so that's where then we do that deeper work of learning to find safety in our bodies. Because no amount of items checked off on a to do list is ever going to ultimately make you feel safe, complete and whole or successful.
So that was thing number one. And so 80, 20 rule. Most people have heard of it, but the question is, are you using it? And then the thing number two that made a huge difference for me is beginning to see my month seasonally and cyclically and my projects in our company seasonally and
cyclically. So because we live in a patriarchy and we are, you know, the focus is on that which is visible is valuable, we forget that actually in the year here on planet Earth we have a springtime and a summertime, which is the seasons of visible growth and external expression. So beautiful. That's the solar, that's the masculine, that's
the young. We also have the seasons of autumn and winter, which are the times for the invisible, the stuff that you really can't see, that is equally as valuable and necessary in order to have a fertile, vibrant spring and summer. We must have the season where everything's falling off the trees, where it's a little sad, where it's kind of dark. And then we need the season of winter where it's just still and
gray. And I started to see how in my business I had hyper focused on spring and summer activities and had not given credence or time to autumn and winter activities. And I created something I call the upward cycle of success, where I named each of Those periods of time for a business. So the springtime energy is emergence, time of new beginnings. The summertime energy is visibility, the time of launching, the time of being out there. The autumn energy is the time of culmination, crossing.
T's dotting. I's doing analytics, tidying things up, gathering your nuts so you can go into hibernation, which I like to call the fertile void. And that time where my first pregnancy also really taught me, in the first trimester of a pregnancy, you don't really look like you're pregnant. And in our culture you're not supposed to tell anybody. However, you have made every single organ of a human body, so it looks like nothing is happening. But during that time I was like,
my mind is completely blown. In this period of time, I have like made a liver and made a heart and I didn't have to put it on my to do list or think about it at all. And in fact, if you asked me how to do it, I would have no idea. And that was just this incredible experience example of how the wisdom of nature really knows. And we need to follow the lead of the wisdom of nature, of the blueprint of our bodies, as opposed to trying to overlay this false linear idea of constant growth and
constant production. And so I really started to work with, not only on a more micro level, my own menstrual cycle and the lunar cycle to guide what was going to be the energy I was going to lead with in any given week. Then also to really look at the macro of my company and say, okay, we've got spring and summer energy down. We're never going to. We're so programmed for that. We don't need to worry about it. It's the autumn and the winter energy that we need to
build in time for. So we actually really shifted the way we do project management to build in those times. And as a result, it keeps getting better and better. We just keep doing fewer things and making more money. It freaking blows my mind. That's so beautiful. And there was something you spoke to Kate that I want us to talk a little bit about because I think it's really important, which is the deconstruction of systems of oppression that are inside of us and that we do
perpetuate when we stay in these cycles. And that there is. You know, Adrienne Maree Brown's work on this was a huge inspiration for me and really reframing looking at rest as an act of rebellion. And I would love to just hear more of your thoughts on that. Because I love to talk about it. Yeah. You know, I, of course, learned about the way beliefs live in our. In our brains
and nervous systems from you. And one of the things that I love to have people ask in my programs is when we're looking at limiting beliefs. For example, my productivity determines my worth could be a limiting belief. So when we look at that, I really love to have people ask the question, who benefits from me believing this? You know, and it's like, oh, white capitalist, toxic patriarchy. You know, and just as a reminder, that does not exist outside
of us. I mean, it does, and it also exists inside of us. So I think, for me, it's been really helpful to not see the problem as external and instead really work with. Or in addition to really work with. Okay, what are the ways that that programming lives in Me and I have two little girls. They're six and eight. And so it's very present. How I live is modeling and literally ingraining their nervous systems with what is
safe and what is not safe. Safe. And, you know, just this one simple, simple example, I have a real, like, my default is to do too much. I wrote do less because I need it. And so I have this little daughter. She's so headstrong. She's amazing. And I was describing to her a week that we're going to have this summer, and I was like, it's going to be so fun. We're going to be on this road trip, and we're going to visit this person and this person. Then we're going to go over here, and then we're
going to do this. And I was, like, so excited. And I look at her little face, and she just started to cry. And I was like, oh, my gosh, what's going on? And she goes, mama, it's too much. It's too much. It sounds like too much. That sounds really tiring. And she's in kindergarten, so I was like, oh, my gosh. Okay, great. So out of all those things that I listed, what would you. What sounds
like the one you would want to do? And she told me. And so we're focusing on that because I'm really realizing I don't want to sweep them up in my trauma response doing. I don't want that to be what they imprint as. This is what's required to be a good woman. This is what's required to be a good friend. This is.
I have to stay on some kind of treadmill sprinting in order to stay relevant or, you know, I mean, it's like, and so I think we can undo the patterning and dismantle the systems in small, seemingly insignificant moments, like deciding your summer plan. It doesn't always have to, you know, just lying down on the floor in the middle of your workday for five minutes or doing a neuro tool is a revolutionary act.
And just the fact that it gives us space between stimulus and response to be able to choose, how am I going to be in this moment? That is, every single time we do that, we are calling our power back. That is our. I mean, the way I think of it, I don't know what your frameworks are, but I see that as my connection with the divine. I see that as my connection with source with a capital S. And every time I do it, it's like a little
prayer. And I just can feel, you know, And I do it too, like, on behalf of my grandmothers who didn't have that. They didn't know this stuff. This was not available. This information was not available. And in very different ways they lived trapped in their
own paradigms. It was a different time. And it's like, I see very directly the ways that we do heal seven generations forward and seven generations back when we interrupt in ourselves the patterning and when we have the courage to say, like, what might be possible. Is there something else available here? And I'm somebody who loves to put my attention and focus to the degree that I can on building out new possibilities as opposed to railing against the systems that exist.
Like, okay, well, the best way for me to dismantle a system is to unravel it in myself and to dream into what else could be birthed. So that's an invitation for all of us on where we want to put our attention as well. I love that. I really love so much of what you said because I think I'm one of these people, as I've gone along deprogramming and busting out through some of this matrix, that I'm really someone who likes to buck the system. I'm someone who wants to go against what's happening out
there. I love what you said about just laying down in the floor and taking a nap for five minutes out of the day. We call it visual reset in the NSI world. But I've got a sleep mask right next to my desk right here. Because If I've got five, 10, maybe 20 minutes out of the day, I'm just gonna lay down with my sleep mask, put on some beats, something soothing, maybe a
meditation. I might even if it's okay. Like, depending on the temperature, go outside and lay down on the ground for 20 minutes and, like, do nothing. And that's one of the ways that I sort of empty my. My bucket out as I move throughout the day. And, like, I love to play little nap roulette if I've got the space in my day. It's like, I've got a few hours here. What could happen? What could happen? Could I fall asleep for hours? And so a couple of the other things
that have really helped me is I've invested in Block Blue Light. I love that company. I love their glasses. I've got a full spectrum table lamp that I use at night to read in that has helped me so much because I have a visual deficit in my nervous system, and that visual deficit is causing threat in my nervous system day, just as the day goes on. So between the visual reset and the block blue light, my eye fatigue has gone down so
much. That's helping me rest and it's helping me stay productive in the ways that I feel good about being productive. Yeah. And you know, what's really important to know as well is that the data does not actually show that more hours worked equals better results. So I just want to be really clear about, like, taking four hours of our day to, you know, fill some of the sleep deficit is actually the best use of our
time. Because what we see in the data is that when we are well rested, as you said, our cognitive abilities, our creativity, our. Our ability to integrate memory and create connections between seemingly disconnected, like, we are superheroes when we are well rested. And three hours working when you are well rested could very easily take you, like, 12 hours when you're exhausted. So just to be super clear, this idea that, oh, I'll sleep when
I'm dead, or. Or it's a good idea to sacrifice sleep or rest in order to get things done is scientifically inaccurate. It doesn't work. I would just love to dip into what you were talking about there of, like, it's not necessarily true that the more we
do, the more benefit we get. And I think that that can happen in business, in work, when we're suddenly like, okay, well, you know, I heard this podcast and people say to do less or whatever, and then it can actually really kick up a lot of fear patterning and stress patterning. That's unnecessary, which is why I love cover crops. It's like, you can quote, unquote, stay busy. Like, you can do active rest, Right? It's not busy, but it's active rest.
Like I remember I had a coach who I adore, and I think this was a great assignment, but she assigned to me. It was many years ago, long before I knew any of this stuff, to sit in a room for an hour and do nothing. It was. It was brutal. It was brutal. And if I knew now what I know, then I would have taken that in smaller doses. Yeah, I know. I mean, I have a lot of clients and myself too. Same thing. Like, we hear all this stuff about meditation is so great. And. And
it is. It does have great benefits, and we have to dose it appropriately. And a nervous system that's in a state of dysregulation, having all these intense feelings and stress hormones, it can be really activating to try to sit still, to even to feel the internal sensations of your body. Too much, too fast. All of this can really be
overwhelming. And so it's about calibrating at that right dose or finding other ways, like you said, cover crops or kind of moving meditations, mindfulness while you're doing other things, so that our system has the ability to get some movement, to get some regulation and practice being present in the moment, getting out of those racing thought loops without. I'm going to sit in this room and have everything that I'm feeling get turned up really loud and try to then shame myself
for not being able to do it. Okay, I would love to know a little more. Like, where can people find you if they want to work with you more? Any closing thoughts? Yeah, closing thoughts would just be that, you know, our worth is not determined by our productivity, and we really are infinitely inherently worthy and we could never do anything to undo that. Amen. Thank you, Kate. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure.
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