I remember when I first stopped drinking alcohol, I would go out to these social gatherings and it was intense in the moment. I was really aware of everything that was going on - I would hear everybody's conversation all at once. I couldn't block out multiple conversations and it wa a lot of stimulus. I didn't recognize it as overwhelming at the time. But, what would happen is, I would come home and I would bend
and then I would crash. I started to notice this pattern of every time I try to go out and socially connect, followed by an episode of binge eating, a migraine, or some pretty intense shutdown. That's when I really started to understand - I have social anxiety. That's what we're going to take a deep dive into today. Welcome to, Trauma Rewired, the podcast that teaches you about your nervous system, how trauma lives in the body, and
what you can do to heal. I'm your co host, Elizabeth Christoph. I'm the founder of Brainbase.com, an online community where we actually do all the practical tools that we talk about on this podcast to rehabilitate the nervous system and create capacity. I'm also the founder of the, Neuroseomatic Intelligence CoachingCcertification. I'm a Neurosematic Psychedelic Preparation and Integration guide. I bridge the worlds between neurosomatic intelligence and plant healing spaces.
I'm so looking forward to exploring social anxiety today because it's just so relatable. I think we should begin with the question, "What is social anxiety"? Big picture, what it is and how do we identify with it. I think a lot of people relate to this because we hear it all the time. It's the most easily identifiable for people because they say it, they claim it. I have social anxiety for sure, and all around, a little socially awkward.
I'm excited to even explore what that spectrum looks like today and dive into this and so, big picture it's a fear and discomfort in social situations. People with social anxiety experience excessive worry about being potentially embarrassed, humiliated or negatively evaluated by others. That is one that really speaks to me personally in my experience with social anxiety. It can be identified by the physical experience of a racing heart, sweating palms, bracing muscles, and overall
tension through the body. It can also drive dissociation and overwhelm in social situations. Like all of the CPTs components, they live on a spectrum. It can be a really intense fear that leads to big isolation on the back end, it could be a fear of public speaking, and overall could lead to avoiding social gatherings, avoiding your family, maybe even in that context. It could also be the feelings of self consciousness and everyday interactions that overwhelm, that comes from simple or
broader social interactions. As Elizabeth was saying, it could come with afterwards a crash, a migraine, pain, or a protective output, because really, it is so taxing and so stressful. Yeah, and it's a little tricky. As I was talking about a moment ago, sometimes we don't really know that we have social anxiety, but we can figure that out by looking at the
output after we're in social situations. I might not feel in the moment like I'm not aware of the signals my body is sending me; the racing heart, the sweaty palms, the muscle tension. But afterwards, I experienced these maladaptive coping behaviors that I used to reregulate because it was such an intense amount of stress when I was in this social situation. That can look
like a lot of different things for people. But it might be that you do these social engagements and you push past your capacity because you're not really aware of the stress. Then you come home and find yourself social media scrolling, numbing out, needing to have, long periods of time where you feel pretty shut down,
disconnected from your body. You might experience those physical outputs like you were talking about; the migraine, pain, substance use, all of these things are the outputs of our nervous system trying to protect us because we've incurred that big social stress. I think substance used in social situation, like you said, this is it. This is where people can find themselves and where I find myself and can still on that spectrum.
I really relate to the fear and the judgment, the potential criticism, because my inner critic was doing that, my inner critic was so harsh. As I was saying to myself, I was worried that this is the really the way that I was being perceived and that would really spin me out - that very loud and abusive inner critic woven into debilitating emotional flashbacks and dissociation.
So social environments became really threatening, potentially, because I was in these cycles of CPTS, and I would regulate myself by really abusing myself through substance use, whether that was food, alcohol, or cannabis. You might identify with using substances to deal with anxiety in a social situation like alcohol or cannabis, because the social threat is so stressful and dysregulating. Maybe you're not someone who identifies with being on the spectrum of panicking
in social situations. I also really relate to that too, and just having full on meltdowns. But you'll find yourself in those patterns of over drinking, over consuming, food, alcohol, cannabis - if you are like me, how I was, I
would regulate with one of these substances. To have the courage to leave my home, my bedroom, my house, my closet, even getting dressed was a full on, overwhelming response for me - I was regulating on the front end, regulating throughout the experience and then I was regulating on the back end, just as, Elizabeth highlighted. That's really when
food bingeing kicked in. It gets really painful because I remember when I did stop drinking and I didn't have that numbing to go through the experience, but I still really wanted social connection. I'd lost a lot of my social connections that I had when I was drinking and it was painful. I started to understand that I can't do these social things without coming home, having a migraine having a food binge and being
shut down. So I started to really limit my social interaction because I didn't want to face the consequences on the back end, but that also sucked because I wanted the social connection. It's just a difficult thing to navigate. It falls so much on a spectrum and that's when we're talking about, Complex Post Traumatic
Stress. There are several reasons why this is a distinguishing characteristic of CPTS, and that that spectrum is a little bit more intense when we have this developmental trauma, because one of the things is, it's linked to the inner critic and toxic shame -those feed into the social anxiety.
It's linked to the other distinguishing characteristics of CPTS. If you have these other two components, it makes social interaction difficult because you're in this state of hyper vigilance, performance and perfectionism as you're in these social environments to secure attachment or cover up the deep rooted shame beliefs of," I'm not worthy" or "I'm bad". Carrying all that gets really pulled up to the surface when you're in those social situations as it's a heavy stress load.
It is. When you take away a big numbing out, a big regulator like alcohol - I can witness myself in those places now and like I said, sometimes I can just be straight up. So, socially awkward, especially if I'm on the phone or I feel like there's an ending time of something and it's not like a comfortable silence. I'm just like, okay, bye. It's so weird sometimes and it just kind of comes from nowhere, but because I've lightened up so much on those maladaptive coping behaviors I find myself
so weird sometimes. Totally. With CPTS, not only is there social awkwardness, because everybody probably is socially awkward- but sometimes. But when you have CPTS, there's all this rumination about that and what happened to
the attachment bond and what does that mean about me. There's a whole somatic response happening in your body and it just makes those little moments, those little awkward moments without having the tools to navigate that, the awareness, altitude and all that good stuff that comes with understanding your, CPTS more. It can make those little awkward exchanges really impactful. Yes, it's
really interesting. Just the cascade and the interwovenness of everything that we're going to talk about today as we've been through this CPTS series. It's really important to talk about hyper vigilance -it's a way people could recognize themselves, but maybe they are. Not really. It's not in their awareness quite yet, but hyper vigilance is a heightened state of awareness where an individual is constantly assessing the potential
threat in the surroundings. It's having an internal alarm system that is keeping you on high alert even when there's no potential or immediate danger. It's the scanning of the room, it's watching all the elements, not being able to have your back to the crowd or to a door. It's looking at your escape routes, whether that's emotional or physical. Reading people's faces, trying to be one step ahead of the people that you're around, just by reading their nervous systems and reading the room and
the perceived threat that's going on. One thing to remember, is that trauma changes our brain as the amygdala is shaped differently and that it could get larger and more sensitive to threat. Stressors have a compounding effect that gives you less capacity to take in all of the stimulus and it makes you less resilient to the stress. With trauma, an inherent feeling of not being safe, especially around a bunch of
other people. If you are in a state of hyper vigilance, there is a lot of stimulus to take in during social events, people, noises, the new environment itself is already a stressor. If your system is perceiving a lot of threat with stimulus, it's going to get pushed into a trauma response. Every situation when you have CPTS is a big stress load and you might not have great tools for processing that stress. I noticed it myself in the auditory
stimulus. I can't stop myself from listening to every single conversation that's going on around me. That's a lot of information to take in, try to make sense of and to process in my mind. In addition to the social threats you were talking about, the trying to read everybody's facial expressions, make sure everybody else is okay. Man, it's a lot of sensory coming in to the system and there can be a lot of physiological reasons why that much stimulus coming
into our nervous system is threatening. We've talked on here a lot about the, the stress bucket and how all of our sensory information is going into that stress bucket all the time. So when I'm hypersensitive to bringing in a bunch of stimulus - maybe I have some deficits in my input systems that are compounding that stress. Maybe I have some sensory mis-match - my eyes and another sensory system like
the balance system in my inner ear, they aren't synced up. That's really energy costly to my nervous system at a very physiological level because my brain is always having to decide which one of these is right and needs that information, to be able to generate predictions, producing an output and keep me alive. I'm going into these social situations with a highly sensitive nervous system, I'm hypervigilant and taking in all this information. I have these deficits that are
compounding the stress all of the time. Then, the water level in that bucket is just escalating very, very quickly in a big social situation with all of that input. So, I'm going to naturally get pushed into protective outputs, the outputs that my brain produces to try to keep me safe in that moment, to get me to reduce the amount of stimulus coming in, like pain, like a migraine. Now, I'm going to go back and I'm going to lay down
and I'm going to shut out all that social stimulus. It's going to be a dark, quiet room and my survival mind is like, okay, we're safe - that was too much. There's these deep physiological reasons why a lot of stress in a social situation could push us into protective outputs. There's another component, which is in the unique development of people's brains that some people are experiencing, uncovering and knowing now that you have a neurodivergence of some kind.
I'm coming into the knowledge and understanding that I have ADHD - this speaks to the threat bucket. Before, I always questioned it, as I just didn't have the room in my bucket to accept and think about that level of sensory processing, because, like, we're talking about so much of social engagement, it is a sensory experience.
I'm so happy about my neuro work and my threat bucket overall baseline level lowering, so I can embody this new understanding of having ADHD and tackle it from the perspective of neurosematic intelligence. This is from, Genera Nuremberg's book, Divergent Mind., "ADHD is not a deficit in attention, but rather a challenge of regulating it, at will or on demand". Often, we have too much attention, just not at the socially accepted times
and situations. So, whoot! That validation I've experienced in that book is comparative to reading, Pete Walke, and we all know that was big. Let me share with you some of the overlapping components of ADHD and Social Anxiety. You could find, high stimulation is both exciting and confusing, which leads to feelings of overwhelm, being overstimulated without realizing that and the not understanding of where those boundaries are in your nervous system with the level of stimulus
that's coming through. People with ADHD find emotional regulation is difficult and that adds to sensory overwhelm. It could lead to those meltdowns that we talked about earlier, earlier sudden bouts of anger or frustration. And so, you know, with me, I already have a heightened fight response because of the CPTS I've experienced. One of the things that we've touched on today is that high sensitivity to criticism and judgment, which is also an experience for people with ADHD.
Then we have that masking that dysregulation through engaging in harmful behaviors. It's a sensory overload that's too much when a person is trying to hold together multiple threads of information under the expectation of this neurotypical context. And there's so many aspects to ADHD that I want to honor that we're not going to talk about right now because we will be bringing this into season four, because I'm someone who also
relates to having a sensory processing disorder. That's why this neural work and this daily practice is so powerful. Yeah, I'm so excited we're really taking a deep dive into all of this in Season Four, because there are so many overlaps and intersections between Complex Trauma and different types of neurodivergence. Just by starting to look at if my brain developed differently because of my Tomplex
trauma, or was I just born that way? If I was just born that way, there's a whole other layer of trauma in a real physiological sense, because the world is overwhelming my nervous system beyond my capacity to cope. That's really what the definition of trauma is. When we have an experience that overwhelms our nervous system beyond our ability to cope and positively adapt
to that stress. If I'm trying to move through the world with a neurodivergent brain and nervous system, that is another type of trauma, then it gets woven in to the Complex Trauma. There's so much going on there that we're going to really dive into. But, in this specific example, with social anxiety, like you were talking about with ADHD or with somebody who just identifies as a highly sensitive person, there's that same level of sensory overload that happens in
a social situation. Our nervous system may not have the skills or the capacity to regulate that stress and it might not feel safe to do so. We don't have the emotional processing skills or in the moment. We don't feel like we can do the things that we need to stay regulated and safe in that moment. And so we end up in the maladaptive behaviors or the physical outputs that come when our system is trying to protect us from that
overwhelm. Right now, on site, on the, Brain Based Wellness Membership site, we're exploring relational healing and have that series. You can go to, rewiretrial.com to start engaging with that series and then we'll be moving on to what is CPTS in this series and how, Elizabeth and I have been resolving this in a journey of applied neuro emotional processing, expressing and somatic movement. So join us at, rewiretria.coml to get those two free weeks and. Explore this work for yourself.
Definitely. So, let's talk about the, HOW - about how social anxiety can be an emotional overwhelm. This is something we talked about on our empath episode. We've learned to take on so much of another person's emotional experience, whether that comes from misattunement in your primary developmental stages, or if you experienced emotional neglect, which is an ACE score, which
we've recorded on previously. I think of how many clients that I've worked with who talk about as a child, they had to learn to attune to a parent who is dysregulated or a caregiver who's dysregulated. Over the years of their adolescence, they end up being the one who's regulating the rest of the environment or trying to regulate the rest of the environment. They learn that if I act this way, then maybe my Dad will be more calm, or if I act this way, maybe my mom won't get so
angry. They start to develop certain behaviors, because you're the ones who have to regulate everybody else. For some, especially as they get older, they may adapt humor as a way to diffuse a situation or a physical activity. There could be perfectionism or fawning. There's all kinds of different options that the nervous system will reach for. Children need to have an adult or caregiver to be able to attune with in order to regulate their nervous systems, particularly up until the ages of
four, when we cannot self regulate. When that gets inverted, I think that's a big driver of a lot of these CPTS survival modes, because, remember, we can redefine our five characteristics as survival modes. Those are the survival modes we fall into. A young nervous system doesn't have that experience. It doesn't have the wisdom or the knowledge to be able to self regulate itself and so much less the whole rest of the room and the world at large. That's a big
ask for a little nervous system. It can reallycreate a pattern for some very dysregulating behaviors- to try to have to do that and to step into that role when that happens in development, your amygdala, your hippocampus, is in an altered state of function. Your HPA access is activated when. When all of that stuff is ramped up, the lens by which you see the world, it changes. Your memory encoding changes, and everything in the brain changes its function.
You go into a totally different mode in a totally different state of being, being in an environment like that, or being in a state where you can't reregulate and there's no one to help you. If the brain stays in survival mode, it's going to develop in survival mode. I think it naturally leads to a lot of these protective behaviors and stress responses. Yeah, it's huge.
When we're trying to take on the emotional regulation of everyone around us in order to stay safe, it really feels unsafe to let someone else have their own emotional experience, to be frustrated, to be disappointed. There's someone else in the space that doesn't feel comfortable. We really dove into this in the empath episode about how empathy is a beautiful human skill. It's also something that needs to be worked with in order to let it be a real asset
and not something that's chronically dysregulating ourself. If, through emotional neglect or maybe parentification, we have deeply learned to take on the responsibility of other people's emotions again, for survival, for safety. Well, it's a lot of work! I think about this client that I've worked with for a long time and this has gotten much, much better with time. It used to be very
debilitating, to have any kind of social interaction. There was so much stress about how everybody else was going to be experiencing the event, especially if it was like an event in their home or, you know, they love to have social gatherings, but it was the pressure that they put on themselves to make it enjoyable experience for everyone. There were real big outputs of pain, migraine, inflammation that would take them
out for weeks at a time afterwards. You know, we really have to start to re-pattern at the level of our nervous system so we can go into these situations, have boundaries, emotional and energetic boundaries, to let everybody else have their own experience. This brings us to attachment styles. Throughout, Season Three, we've explored why CPTS is, at its root, an attachment wound.
If the core wound is about social connection and our deepest triggers are about being rejected, abandoned, or experiencing retaliation from other relationships, when we express ourselves, then social threat is the biggest, deepest stress our system faces. Relationships with caregivers, remember, shape, our individual attachment schema. And now in our life, our nervous system responds with reactivity and threat to social connection. That doesn't just replay in our intimate relationships,
it shows up in all our connections. Our neuromatrix is shaped by our developmental experiences. Then, as we interact in this whole web of human connection, we're now primed for an attachment that is protective, which perceives a lot of threat. Inside our body, in our physiology, we're experiencing a lot of stress. As human beings, we just aren't
isolated. Part of being a human being is being in relationship and that's the rub with Complex Trauma - maintaining connection and relationship can be inherently dys-regulating. With a heavy increase in chronic stress, you have a need for social connection and interaction, and those two forces come up against each other, leading to a lot of internal chaos, a lot of stress in the body. That's a really important part of understanding CPTS. Attachment schemas- it's really fascinating. Let's explore
anxious attachment for a moment. Let's dive into this. I know, you know, from our past episodes, we understand our attachment styles are fluid, that our nervous systems are fluid and can change, will change situationally, depending on what our brain thinks is the most adaptive in this moment, in this experience. If you learned in early development that your primaries and the people around you are not safe, that people are unstable and unpredictable, you're going to be hypersensitive to the way
that other nervous systems affect you. In the case of anxious attachment, the mom's nervous system is dys-regulated. She's dissociated, she shuts down. We're attuning and feeling that in here, not here, here, not here (points to various areas of the body). Then, that translates into anxious attachment. So, we're attached. We're not attached. It's like having a foot
in and out constantly with other nervous systems and in relationship. So from development, we become really hypersensitive to other people's nervous systems and now we're around a bunch of other people in a social situation, we're going to be hypersensitive to their nervous systems. That's a lot for our nervous system! Let's say you lean into anxious attachment and then you're actually in a social situation. Individuals with anxious attachment tend to be overly preoccupied with
their relationships because they fear abandonment. They seek constant reassurance and worry about rejection. There's a heightened sensitivity. Anxiously attached individuals are hyper aware of social cues and potential threats. There's a big fear of rejection and dread rejection or disapproval, leading to avoidance of social situations entirely. There's an overall negative self
perception. There's anxious attachment fosters self doubt and negative self talk, and it fuels social anxiety, overthinking, ruminating about interactions, conversations. There's the anticipation of judgment or criticism. And then there's the overanalyzing, dissecting social interactions, magnifying the perceived mistakes that you have made.All of this gets internalized. I'm not worthy of this. I am not
good enough. I'm the one from development who learns that I'm the one who needs to change, not the environment or the people around me. This may lead to, into a lot of overdoing, over giving, and particularly self abandoning.There's so many things in a social situation that are dys-regulating and stressful. So this isn't something I particularly relate to, but it's something that I've seen
in social situations. When somebody gets aggressive, maybe because they're drinking a bunch of alcohol to regulate their nervous systems.
Back to if people are the threat, you move into heightened states of activation when you're around people and regulating through alcohol, experiencing and trying to numb out that, like, faster breathing, that rapid heart rate and all of that, because you're preparing to protect yourself, but you're protecting yourself from an activated sympathetic state of fight flight. But in this case, we're examining flight because the alcohol
has had a cascading effect on the body. And if the person's already in a dissociative state with numbing properties of alcohol and living with repressed anger and rage, boom. I mean, you just have a recipe for disaster. When you put that same scenario into relationship and attachment, then you could also be experiencing those well worn pathways of that person as they are in relationship to you. I relate to that. I use to have a lot of rage that came out when I was drinking as it was
so repressed all my life. But, when I was in social situations or not, maybe just even by myself and I would drink that would open the door for all of that repressed rage to come out on myself or on other people. It was not a good situation. When we're talking about attachment styles, we have the flip side of that, right? Again, attachment styles are fluid and we can have both and we can be
disorganized. But, there's also avoidant attachment style, where we have a real reluctance to rely on others and a fear of emotional intimacy and a tendency to suppress emotions. It's more of a pullback from the social connection rather than a move toward anxiously to try to secure the attachment. People with avoidant attachment can
find it really challenging to open up and connect with others. You had a caregiver where it was not at all safe to connect with that nervous system, and they put too much responsibility too much stress, too much, too much on your little developing nervous system. At a survival leve it feelsl unsafe to take on that kind of connection and intimacy with other
people. So, in social situations, you're being asked to connect and engage with people, and it can lead to a really big flight response in the body of like, I gotta get out of here, this is too much. It does not feel safe and, or you might just feel really socially awkward because you can't connect to people and isolate it. And, you know, I'm someone with pretty disorganized attachment, so I relate to
anxious and I relate to avoidant. But, you know, when I would do things in group situations, I really wanted to connect, but it also felt very unsafe. I also really pulled back and was very quiet and reserved and removed from the situation. I often feel like I wanted to get the Hell out of there as fast as I could. Although at the same time, I would see all these other people connecting and I would want
that experience. Many times, when I was in that group situation, I felt really isolated and left out because I didn't have the capacity to connect. It's a lot. I mean... it's justa lot. I think we're wired intuitively right for the safety of connection- that's a desire. To want that and then to know or to not know that you have a brain that's not wired for, for safe connection and not understanding that, that is a really hard place to be in
a nervous system. I mean, it really is. Thankfully, attachment schema, your attachment, can change. It does change. It changes in each relationship you're in. But, even within those nuances of each relationship, you can blanket change your attachment and the way that you attach to others. All of this is made possible with where you're in full capacity, right? We have to move within the capacity of our nervous systems for any change that we want to make, whether that's personal or social.
There's a need to re-pattern the nervous system response to social interaction. One of the things I 've learned to do is dosing my social engagement, my social interaction. Now, I know what the boundaries of my own nervous system are. I know where I'm starting to be overstimulated or overwhelmed by the environment, by the people, by the sounds, and just by the whole thing at large- I'll spend some time in the situation.
Then, I will remove myself. At that time, after I remove myself, I'll do some drills, I might push the wall, I might do a little emotional work, really minimum effective dose and I'll decide, "...am I re-engaging or am I done? Am I done with this?". I might just go home and not experience the pushback on the back end of the food. I don't want that. I don't want those stress loops in my body. It always comes down to the dosing and the regulation.
Yes, really critical in order to re-pattern, to honor our capacity and work within that minimum effective dose, because it is possible to change our attachment schema as you mentioned. We want to remember. We've talked about that a lot in, Season Three, the relational healing season. But to remember that our attachment schema are the lens, they're the paradigm of how we see the world socially. It's the glasses that we're looking through. How do I perceive other people's
behavior, their action, their intentions? And that's the interpretation part of how the nervous system works. Remember, we're always taking in information, we're interpreting it, and then we're generating an output, and this is the interpretation part. And then the behavior, the anxiety, the response, that's the output. With NSI, the input is the social stimulus. Then, we have the interpretation, which is our attachment schema, that decides safe or unsafe - we generate the output.
How our perception is going to dictate what the response is. Does my brain decide safe or unsafe? When we have Complex Trauma, it's this repeated exposure to lack of safety. We know it's usually ongoing environmental or social lack of safety. That happens frequently over and over again, especially during our development. It's not just one big thing, but it's really a repetitive pattern of unsafe behavior and
unsafe environments. If we grow up in that type of environment naturally, that's going to shape the lens of how we view social interactions. It's going to change our perception, not just of intimate connection or family relationships, but all relationships will be affected. The Complex Trauma is what has formed and informed my attachment schema. It's what's created my lens. Again, kind of going back to this idea of redefining CPTS as frequently
occurring outputs. We have these five outputs, and the, "C" stands for chronic. It means there are chronically occurring survival mechanisms that our system has learned to depend on and that I'm going to use over and over and over again to try to protect myself socially. So, if I want to change those outputs, then looking at this through the lens of NSI, I have to start to change the inputs, how my system is taking in information
about the world around me and I have to start to change the interpretation. The,n I can experience the new. Outputs and the new outputs. Next week you're going to be hearing our new exploration of what is, self abandonment. That's what all of this is about - we do this work so that we don't self abandon. We don't only just have a relationship to the outside world, to the social environment and relationship, you have a relationship to
yourself first and foremost. Everything, gets internalized and it always comes back onto the self. What do we do about all of this? It's about the daily nervous system practice. It's about lowering the threat in your overall bucket. It's about being here and listening. This is kind of the first part - that perhaps, this is all just coming into your awareness and then you're going to jump on site with us at, rewiretrial.com. Check out those two free weeks that we offer.
Currently, we're in the middle of the, Relational Healing Series on the Brain Based Wellness website. I 've mentioned that before. Then it's the, CPTS Series. If you are identifying with any or all of these distinguishing components and you have CPTS, please join us for the special series we're doing. We really want to see you on site. Rewiretrial.com yeah, we really would love to see you there!
These class series started as a request from a listener who emailed me and was a member on the site and said, hey, you guys have been talking about relational health all of, Season Three. Could you do some classes specifically related to that? I thought that's a brilliant idea! Let's teach the tools in practical application to re-pattern all these things that we're talking about re-patterning. So, we have the whole Relational Healing
Series. It's in the on demand library. You just have to click, "Relational Healing Relationships" and all the classes are recorded there. Now, we have a class series on, CPTS showing you guys the practical tools, the way we use somatic practices and nervous system tools to re-pattern. Click on the," On Demand library CPTS Series" and it's all there for you. You can explore everything in your two free week trial at, rewiretrial.com This highlights how
much we really love hearing from you. Please keep reaching out to us. You're such a big part of the co-creation of Trauma Rewired and what we bring to you on the, Brain Based Wellness site. Absolutely! Thank you so much.
