Neurodivergence and NeuroSomatic Intelligence

One in five people are neurodivergent, according to the CDC. But we know that when we look at studies and our experience, that many of us spend a lifetime masking our true selves. And today we're going to dive really deep into this whole concept of neurodivergence, beginning a really big exploration of neurodivergence and its intersections with complex trauma and nervous system health. Welcome to Trauma Rewired, the podcast that teaches you about your nervous system,

how trauma lives in the body, and what you can do to heal. I'm Elizabeth Christof, founder of Brainbased.com comma, an online community where we use applied neuroscience and somatics to increase resilience, re pattern stress response, and really create meaningful change. And I'm also the founder of the Neurosomatic Intelligence Coaching Certification course, which is an ICF accredited course for therapists and coaches that teaches you to bridge the gap between cognitive frameworks and

somatics by working with the nervous system. And I'm your co host, Jennifer Wallace. I'm a neurosomatic psychedelic preparation and integration guide, and I work through NSI and psychedelic healing to help people integrate their messages and bring those messages into the body safely to rewire for new pathways and really a new life. So I'm so excited for this conversation today. I think we should really start with, like, what is

neurodivergence? And this is kind of, in my own words, from a few of the various things I was reading as we were taking in this conversation. And when I think of actually the one in five people, I really think, like, statistics are drastically underreported. And so I just want us to keep that in mind as we're moving through this conversation. But

okay, what is neurodivergence? So, neurodiversity describes differences in brain development and function from person to person that affects daily mental functions. And this term embraces differences in brain function and behavior as a natural manifestation of our humanity's variety, of our diversity, rather than being pathologized and isolating for an individual. And the concept of neurodivergence was introduced during the fight

for autism awareness and rights. Sociologist Judy Singer, who is autistic, coined the term in 1997. And autism awareness, it really paved the way for the emergence and recognition of neurodivergence. It has since gone on to encompass additional ways that brains may express themselves and function, and this will include complex trauma, ADD, Ad, ADHD, dyslexia, and many other neurodivergences. And you hear us say on this podcast a lot, that n equals one when we're talking about the nervous system.

And that is also true for the way that the brain develops as well. Yeah. Doctor Singer says that neurodiversity is a concept that neurological variations are as, quote unquote, normal as being human being, as differences in the human genome, and should be respected and valued as much as any other type of human variation. This really challenges traditional views that see neurodivergent conditions as solely medical problems and that they need to be fixed in some

way. And it encourages more of an inclusive and supportive approach. And so, as we're talking about this today, I think looking at some of these, the words that we use and how we describe these terms is important as we're beginning this big exploration. So neurodiversity is different from neurodivergence. Neurodiversity is just a part of life. Neurodiversity is a biological fact. It's not a perspective or an approach or a belief or a political position or a paradigm. There's a neurodiversity

paradigm, which is different. It's a way of looking at the world a little bit differently and thinking about how our society addresses these people. But neurodiversity just means that we're all a little bit different. And then the neurodiversity paradigm is a specific perspective on neurodiversity that boils down to a couple of fundamental principles, that neurodiversity is natural and it's a valuable form of human diversity.

And that the idea that there is one normal or healthy type of brain, or like a right way to have neurocognitive functioning is fiction that just doesn't really exist. And that social dynamics that manifest in regard to neurodiversity are similar to social dynamics that manifest in regards to other terms of human diversity, like ethnicity, gender, culture. And they include social power inequalities, and different ways that we can experience structural trauma and oppression.

And when we talk about neurodivergence, that's a particular type of identity that manifests in different forms. Like you might identify as having adhd or being autistic, you have a neurodivergence. But neurodiversity is just a big, broad term that exists in the world. And as we're moving through season four, what we're seeing is there's a lot of overlaps in the mental health conditions under the mental health paradigm, and we're seeing where things are lacking as knowledge expands

and science grows. I mean, when we think about, and I think there is an idea of, like, autism on the rise. But look at, we just got brain scans. You know, brain scans aren't even 50 years old, so we're learning so much about the brain, the way that it develops. And there are huge overlaps between mental health conditions and neurodivergence. Yeah,

absolutely. So neurodivergent individuals, like people with autism or ADHD or dyslexia, really often face unique challenges that then increase their risk of developing mental health conditions. But just broadly, you can see this in a lot of co occurrence rates between neurodivergent diagnosis and mental health outcomes. So, 70% of individuals with an autism spectrum diagnosis have at least one co occurring mental health condition, and

40% have two or more. And that can include anxiety, depression, other types of neurodivergence, like ADHD. People with ADHD often have anxiety. You can, of course, experience more burnout and depression because you're sensory overloaded all the time. And if we really think of anxiety and depression as outputs, like we talked about with Matt on these previous

episodes, you can see why this might overlap. When we have sensory differences in our sensory processing, it can make living in this world an incredibly overwhelming and overstimulating experience that can lead to chronic dysregulation, a chronic stress load that then lead to changes in our autonomic function, the way that we breathe, how much fuel and activation our brain has. And we then start to experience protective outputs of a nervous system that's been under too much stress for too

long. And that can manifest as any one of these outputs that we talk about on here, migraine fatigue, depression, anxiety, and that chronic stress of masking to the inner critic. And we're going to talk a lot more about that later. But the way that we have to perform to get by in the world when we don't fit into the neurotypical framework of society, and then also the isolation that can come from that, are those core beliefs of I'm broken, I don't fit, I'm

wrong that we talked about with Piper. All of this kind of comes together as we're discussing neurodivergence, and you can see how all of that would impact not only mental health outcomes, but just. General nervous system health on a daily basis. On a daily basis. And when I think of these overlaps, and I think Matt brought it up in one of our conversations, like the Venn diagram of all the overlaps, I tried to do that where I had all these pieces of paper with all the complex

trauma, five components. And then I had the add and all the neurodivergences and I was like, wow, this is so overwhelming. You can't pick them apart from each other at all. And I really think that all of this overlap, it really leads to misdiagnosis and delayed diagnosis. And in my own experience in my journey and from what I've seen with clients, as we look at the n equals one concept, then it's really easy to see how the overlap of

outputs leads to this misdiagnosis. And like we were saying, we didn't even have brain scans until the nineties. So let's explore some of these overlapping outputs. Social anxiety really comes to mind as one of the five distinguishing components of cpts, but also could be mistaken for autism or vice versa. There's OCD, same thing. And this leads to maybe inappropriate or incorrect treatments for people. Women particularly. And people of color are disproportionately diagnosed or misdiagnosed.

For people of color, it's less with autism, but it's more to behavioral issues. And this can look like missed opportunities in education, in resources and support. And then there's like these cycles that continue. And there's this idea that it's making something wrong with the person. The diagnosis is isolating in a way that it makes you feel like something is wrong with you. Instead of looking at a way to resource the nervous system and helping people, training them to adapt to the

worlds that they live in. With the type of systems that we have, and we know from. We've talked so much about social anxiety and cpts, that that can come from sensory overwhelm, sensory mismatch, the thalamus getting too much stimulus, as well as the stress and hypervigilant that comes with having cpts. And, you know, people who understand this about themselves, they can find ways to work with their systems in the moment. And we do things really

naturally as humans. Like with stimming, there's inhibition tools we can learn to fuel ourselves properly. And we talk a lot also about boundaries, like learning what our boundaries are, even in a way of not even saying yes and no, but understanding where I end and you begin, like the physical state of my body's boundary, and also an energetic way. And we talk about minimum effective dose in all ways of life. And that includes the way that we interact in a social

and relational way. We do it for cpts, but we can do it with any type of neurodivergence, because we're talking about an overwhelm of sensory and that is all what we do through NSI. And so the numbers of autism and all of the neurodiversities, they're really on the rise these days. And they are significantly impacted by many factors as us being biological humans. And

this comes from many sources, right? Like, there's a natural biodiversity, there's maternal stress, complex trauma, environmental factors, impacts of vaccines, sensory overload in development. And these forces create a world where neurodivergence is on the rise. And still our mental health and our health systems are misdiagnosed and under diagnosed school systems are unequipped, uninformed, even, to handle this level of this rise in

the population. And there's a huge misunderstanding in healthcare and particularly mental health care.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's, as you were talking, I was thinking about the impact of stigma in all of this, too, in the educational system, the healthcare system, the mental health system, and both neurodivergence and various mental health issues can carry a significant amount of stigma, which can compound when they overlap, compound the stress that an individual is under, that can keep people from seeking help, and it can exacerbate feelings of isolation and distress.

There was a study published in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders that found that autistic individuals often internalize societal attitudes, leading to higher rates of anxiety and depression. And in NSI, we talk a lot about what happens when we internalize stigma, when we internalize oppression, that all of this can get really woven into our

neural architecture, the constructs that we live in. We're talking about racism and gender bias and sexism and these biases against different types of neuro expression. And we've talked in trauma rewired many, many times about how shame is linked to increased inflammation. So I'm not going to get too deep into that. If you're interested in that, go back and listen to other episodes, or come join us in

NSI. But we know that the research shows that shame, the emotional expression of shame, is linked to an increase in inflammatory molecules like cytokines. So we know there's more shame happening then we know that shame is linked with freeze when we're shutting down and we're immobilized, and that often it's our body preparing to defend itself when we can't take action. So it's that deep level of internal protection of an immune response, protecting against

possible injury or pathogen. And so there's dysregulation in our immune system, and it can alter our cellular function, and that can really set the stage for big health outcomes like cancer or autoimmune or metabolic disorders. And so, as we also can see, this internalized stigma with neurodivergent identities, that also leads me to think that there are links between that

and the health outcomes that we see. Why someone, not just because of the chronic stress load they're under with all of the sensory, but because of that deep internalized shame response and inflammation, would create different health outcomes that are really important to address. And knowing how to work with the nervous system to re pattern some of that stress response, increase vagus nerve health is really, really important. If you're somebody who

has this hyperactive. Shame response, it feels so relevant. I mean, it just rings so true, because like you said, the inflammatory response, we know that high states of inflammatory stress lead to toxic states in the body, whether that comes from emotional stress, physical stress, environmental stress, like actual potential danger, like viruses that we, you know, take into the body. I mean, it just. It's so deeply layered. And, you know, when it comes to women's

mental health and the neurodivergence overlap. Like, women are really face unique challenges in diagnosis and support. And many women that we've spoken to, either our clients or in what we've been reading, they get diagnosed through their children and recognizing all their children get diagnosed, and then they see that reflection in themselves as well. And according to a study by the CDC, autism spectrum disorder is less frequently diagnosed in women. And with a male to

female ratio of approximately four to one. However, recent research suggests that the actual prevalency may be closer to three to one, indicating a significant number of undiagnosed women. And it's really similar with ADHD. It's often overlooked in women, with girls being three times less likely to be diagnosed by boys. And these disparities highlight a critical gap in understanding and addressing neurodivergence in women. And we're going to talk about

masking a little bit later. But as women, as little girls, we are almost taught masking. It's learned from, usually from our moms, our primaries, the women that raise us in our social circles. And so additionally, a study published in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders found that women with autism are more likely to be misdiagnosed with conditions like anxiety, depression, or borderline personality disorder before

receiving an accurate autism diagnosis. And this misdiagnosis, it can lead to, like we were saying, a lot of inadequate or inappropriate treatment and support. So you're just, it's a lot of stress on the body to be taking in maybe pharmaceuticals using the energy to consult with the wrong doctors. And there's really, interestingly, a survey in 2016 by the National Autistic Society revealed that 42% of autistic women felt that they had been misdiagnosed with a mental health condition

before their autism diagnosis. And this really underscores the importance of improving diagnostic criteria and awareness among healthcare providers to provide better support for neurodivergent women. These statistics reveal a really troubling trend, actually. The underdiagnosis and misdiagnosis of neurodivergent women often leads to a lack of appropriate to support and

resources. And this discrepancy highlights the urgent need for greater awareness and understanding in both the medical community and society at large. Because really, what we're talking about at the end of this is high suicidal ideation and more women care, carrying that through as they continue to be misdiagnosed. Yeah, it's really. It's such a huge component of mental health that needs to be re examined. And I think there is growing awareness around it. There's a lot

more resources. But I still think for many of us, even now in my own life, I'm really starting to see some of my own neurodivergence and exploring the overlap between that and my complex trauma and thinking so much reflection on my youth and ways that I was misdiagnosed and mistreated and how that compounded trauma. And I'm someone who's in this world of healing

and neuro, and it's really. It's a lot. And then there's also huge intersections between different racial identities and neurodivergence, like you touched on before, that results in disparities, and not just diagnosis and treatment and support, but also really was really looking at this in the educational system. And for black students, especially those with different type of neurodivergent diagnoses, they face higher rates of school discipline. And there's this idea, right, that there's

a neurotypical world that we're all living up to. And like, what does that even mean? Let's really talk about that and unpack that a little bit more. Yeah, I think this is key because we hear this term neurotypical, or maybe you hear it if you're in this world. And the more and more research that you and I do, the more I'm like, who is this

unicorn of neurotypical? And does that even fit at all with this idea that n equals one, that everyone is a unique reflection of their past experiences and how their nervous system has shaped, or how their brain and their nervous system has been shaped by those experiences. Just the standard definition of neurotypical is used to describe individuals whose neurological development and their neurological functioning aligns with what is considered standard or a typical

range of human neurology. So, in other words, neurotypical people don't have the traditional developmental, intellectual, or cognitive conditions that would be diagnosed as neurodivergence, like classic manifestations of autism or adhd or dyslexia. So, for the most part, it's kind of defined by typical development. They develop cognitive, social, and communication skills that, again, I'm just so

confused by, what is this standard? So they develop these skills according to the standard developmental milestones expected given in a culture or society. They exhibit behaviors and responses that are considered typical or average in social, educational, or occupational settings. It doesn't present atypical patterns. And the term neurotypical is often used in contrast to neurodivergent, which refers to people whose brains function differently in one or

more ways from what's considered typical. And I just still, even with this broad definition, it just raises more questions for me than answers, because there's so many complexities to that. Like, how we act in different situations can vary from situation to situation and relationship to another, and what of us don't have developmental experiences that we adapt to? And it's just a lot.

What's coming up for me right now is ace scores. And if almost 70% of the population has an ace score of one, then we're looking at 30% of the population, maybe at its max, that has no ace score. But really what's happening is, like, how is it possible then? Like, so what we're saying is like, okay, let's build a world for 20% to 30% of the population that the other 60% to 70% of the

population have to squeeze into these molds. And it's just really, I think of, like, this is a heavier, oppressive narrative that is also pushed upon us. This idea of, like, what is normal or what we're, like, living up to. It's so wild. Next week, we have a conversation releasing with Doctor Megan Anneff, where we are looking at autism and ADHD, and the biggest drop from that episode, and we'll talk about it a little bit more as we move through the season. But complex trauma is a

neurodivergence. I mean, let's just pause on that for a moment, because a lot of you listening to this podcast are listening to us because you identify with having complex trauma. And so let's sit with this complex trauma is a neurodivergence. And exhale. Right. Because this was one of the moments where I was really, like, struck by

this information. We've done so many recordings on brain development and looking at the way that the brain develops under cpts, but this was a moment for me that I was, like, really blown open inside as like a full body. Yes. And we can see from the n equals one paradigm that when our brains develop under chronic heavy stress load, under dysregulation, stacked with dysregulation, that the survival

brain gets more heavily wired. In our early years, the emotional brain is severely impacted, and all areas of the brain are going to be impacted. But since our brain feeds from bottom to top, back to front, it's we get stuck in the survival brain. The filters get shifted, the lens that we see things get shifted. And then that almost blocks in some ways or limits the access of information into our prefrontal cortex,

into our executive functioning, our higher order systems of thinking. And that part of our brain doesn't get stimulated enough and therefore it doesn't get wired. Those pathways aren't as officially wired as, say, the survival patterns. And so the protection, the survival,

that's what gets shaped. And it's going to impact the way that we socialize, the way that we organize and the way that we really function and are able to provide, literally provide for ourselves and be a part of our society and part of our families. Yeah. Yes. I mean, our brain's ability to integrate sensory stimulus, emotional reaction and cognitive integration, our ability to integrate and encode memories, our ability to integrate

between hemispheres, all of that is disrupted. We define complex trauma as the water that we're swimming in that shapes our nervous system and our brain patterning and function. And the truth of it is, it does lead to differences in the way that we take in sensory information, the way our brain processes and integrates that information and then the outputs that we experience because of it. So our brains are neurodivergent from this so called standard. And like you said, like so

many people have an ace score of at least one. And even if they don't have the typical ace score, we live in a society that is dysregulating. We don't have enough movement and connection and screens and artificial light. We live under structural stress and trauma systems that are impacting our nervous system development. So it's really strange to think of somebody not having some variation from this typical norm of brain function, and then we'll dive much deeper into

that in the conversation with Matt. I mean, our brains work differently, and that could be a really a strength that we could recognize in society that this different level of creativity, of resilience, like when it's understood and supported, these are people's gifts. This is the magic that human diversity brings into our culture. But what happens, think about this overlap with complex trauma, is that that

light in us, it gets buried. And so much of the healing process begins, like lifting this stuff off, these old narratives. What is the beliefs that I believe in? Like, who am I? How can I safely express? And that's why NSI is like so vitally important to have these tools. And the biggest feedback we get is that we don't share tools with you as we move through this podcast. And that's because we do

deeply understand that n equals one. And it would be massively reckless for us, we feel, to give tools out there to you as a broad audience that we would be putting some people in danger. And that's why we provide free resources and we provide a free two week trial membership. So all those links will be in the show notes. And like, as an NSI practitioner, it's so valuable to be able to work with clients in this new way. Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up

about the tools and why we don't just throw. This is such an important conversation for that because different sensory is going to affect different people's nervous system differently depending on how we take in information. And the right amount of stimulus for me, is going to be very different for somebody else that processes it differently depending on so many different factors, including any kind of different neurodivergent ways that my brain and my nervous

system work. And so there's a real importance in learning the foundational concepts first. And then there's also like a method, a process of nervous system training. You're not just randomly throwing a tools at the wall and seeing what sticks. You're starting with regulation and increasing capacity, and then you're moving on to starting to rehab some of your deficits. And then you're moving on to giving your frontal lobe activation and training those higher order thinking systems and

doing integration drills. But you have to build that capacity first, or else you won't be positively adapting to that stimulus. And so there's an order and a progression that just can't be, it can't be laid out here. And that's why we have rewirecourse.com and rewiretrial.com so that people can start on that journey, see how it resonates with them and do it safely. Yeah, everyone is unique, and we're

talking about all these overlaps. It does get really tricky. And neurodivergence encompasses a range of conditions that manifests in various ways. And the signs can differ significantly from one individual to another in coming episodes because we really want to explore the nuances of these manifestations of neurodivergence. Like, everything we talk about, this all lives on a spectrum. Everything that we do lives on a spectrum. There's no one size fits all to

a presentation of neurodivergence. And one of the books that was hugely impactful for me was divergent mind by Genera Nirenberg. She says in this book, and I really do believe this diagnosis can be a relief, a lifeline, and a way to finally understand oneself. It's a way to learn that you're not broken. You're just

different. And when we embrace neurodiversity, we unlock the potential of minds that think outside the box, who see the world in unique ways and who can solve problems that others might not even be able to see. And I just love the way that, that Jenna puts that. Yeah, me too. That Zenarin Arenberg book was huge for me in starting the season. And then as we've been meeting with these other experts and doing research and reading all these other books, it's really, I'm in the trauma rewired vortex.

You know, I'm seeing myself in a lot of this, looking at my own presentations of ADHD. And in our conversation with Doctor Neff, alexithymia came up where you have trouble recognizing, processing, and. And feeling emotions. And I really felt that and also can have some gratitude for it. Like, there's, like you were saying, is a relief in some ways, and to understand that that's a difference in my brain processing and that there are reasons for that, all right.

Reasons for my nervous system protecting me. And also, too, it's been a huge reason why I do a lot of the work that I do for emotional processing and intraceptive training. And there are these gifts that come from all of it. And so it's just been really interesting. And as I learned more and I'm able to reframe, it's this deeper level of we all do the best that we can at the level of our nervous system.

It's like a deeper embodiment of that understanding. And it's been helpful for me in terms of even more increases in self compassion and being able to look at things with altitude, maybe finding ways to find community. And I, again, just chipping away, deconstructing these internalized biases and beliefs that don't serve me. And sometimes having more information is going to lead to a little

bit more stress on the body. And so having the tools to work through that stress and maybe even move through some of the fear that comes up when we identify with something new and we've got this new term now to identify with, it's like, okay, what does that mean for me now? Right? Because an experience that I lived with most of my life were strong narratives around, you're not like everyone else. No one understands me. That was so loud. Like, I'm

different, I'm on my own. I have to figure this out. And it was really isolating to think that no one understood me and to be so critical of myself came with so much shame. And I. It was so judgy, and I was never going to be good enough, and I was unlovable. And these loops, they had emotional blueprints and undercurrents of shame, disgust, anger, grief, rage. And that was a lot in my body. My parents are awesome, but what

happened was I compared myself to them a lot. And in that I viewed myself and that lack of interest as a lack of success, that I was a failure. And I know now that we're talking about through this, I have a sensory processing deficit. And that's okay. It created a heavy stress load in my body to think that way. That unknowing overwhelm of my sensory self, the development and function that was connected to this very harsh inner

critic. And I had gotten so good at masking and just getting by in the world that if you looked at me, you would have thought, oh, she's happy, she's successful. But the masks, they were so strong and were so deeply embedded into my daily life and the way that I showed up and, like, now who I am right now in this podcast and in this moment, like, I can work with that sensory processing deficit. I've got the tools. Like, that is very

manageable. It's really leading me into a place of healing and releasing where I can meet myself in deeper places so that I can witness my gifts and try to honor them in new ways. Even if that means, like, a lot of times that happens in this relationship, in this friendship, where I can voice and know that, okay, I have another regulated person to not necessarily validate me, but to just openly share, like, hey, this is what is happening for me.

Yeah, absolutely. I think when we know how to work with our system, and to mobilize that energy, we can start to access some of the gifts that come from our neurodivergent processing or just our inherent gifts. Right? Being curious, being someone who thinks outside of the box, these are huge assets, but we also have to be able to work with our nervous system to manage the stress load of those heightened sensory awarenesses and processes and to move that through the

body. And as we've been going through this recently, you actually had an experience that followed our conversation with Doctor Neff where you got kind of blown open as the connection of complex trauma is a neurodivergence really hit home. We have these conversations, brain development and function, and every week we talk about how our brains develop under complex trauma. So, duh, complex

trauma is a neurodivergence. But that knowing inside of me was veiled through a lens of complex trauma, through that, through that inner critic voice where it was constantly whispering to me like, no, you're not smart enough to have those big ideas. You're not the person who puts big ideas like that together and then puts them into the world. And that really made me so sad, honestly, inside. But it was just this big protector was like, no, you don't go down that

path. And the masking and the handing over of my power. Yeah. Where the inner critic is really primed to respond because there's a lifetime of masking a lot of these neurodivergent traits. You know, that's a well worn path of the inner critic as part of a CPTS distinguishing characteristic. And plus there's a huge social stress of questioning social norms, of putting new ideas out into the world and risking alienation or rejection. What is

all these people listening going to think about this? And so all of this could be a very protective response from the nervous system in the brain trying to keep you safe by a lifetime spent living in a neurodivergent mind with CPts that conditioned you to feel inadequate with social norms, especially like in the educational system. And so these beliefs get deeply baked in and then get triggered with this little moment that where you

come up against that and now you can take a new action. And I love this quote from Harry Bloom. And this is really it. Neurodiversity be every bit as crucial for the human race as biodiversity is for life in general. Because being neurodivergent isn't just about identifying with challenges. It comes with a host of unique strengths and perspectives that can be really incredibly valuable for our society, for our culture. And one of those is innovation and creativity.

Right. Neurodivergent individuals often think outside of the box. I'm laughing because, like, the box is 70% larger than the box that we've been put in. But this ability to see the world differently, it fosters creativity and innovation. And many groundbreaking ideas and inventions come from those who do not conform to conventional thinking. You know, for instance, with neurodivergent folks, they often have a hyper focus and

attention to detail. People with ADHD or autism can exhibit intense focus and attention to detail in all areas of interest. This hyper focus allows them to delve deeply into subjects, becoming experts and producing work of exceptional quality. There's pattern recognition. Neurodivergent minds often excel at identifying patterns and connections that others might miss. This is an invaluable skill in fields like data

analysis, programming, and scientific research. There's the idea of resilience and adaptability, navigating a world not designed for them. Neurodivergent individuals often develop remarkable resilience and adaptability skills. This ability to preserve and find solutions in challenging environments is a significant strength in both personal and professional settings. And then also there's empathy and

emotional insight. And contrary to stereotypes, many divergent individuals possess profound empathy and emotional insight. Their unique perspectives can lead to deeper understandings and compassion for others, fostering inclusive and supportive communities versus isolation. I think that one is a really particularly important stereotype to explore that like neurodivergent people don't feel as much. And even when I was talking about alexithymia, I do have

trouble experiencing moving, processing emotions. I've done a lot of training on that. It's very different now. But that doesn't mean that most of my life I wasn't also having empathy and feeling connection for people. And just because we have these differences in processing, I think there is a big belief that people with neurodivergent lack compassion and empathy. And I don't think that's the case at all. In fact, a lot of times I think they feel a

lot. Well, I think too. And just what is it that you're saying? What's that word that you're identifying with? Alexithymia. Alexithymia. I remember looking that up and I can see from knowing you for so long, like, how you would identify with that. And you're one of the most deeply caring people that I know. You care a lot about other people and your friends and your family and people that you don't even know. So it's like there's this something that you can relate to and that's not

the only thing that's there, right? And just because I might have trouble processing emotions doesn't mean I don't experience them and feel them. And so that's different. And there's a lot of emotional stimulus that does come in for neurodivergent individuals and. Yeah, pattern recognition. I was thinking as you were talking about how, you know, so much of the work that we do is pattern recognition. Nervous system patterns, brain

function patterns. Putting the dots together between trauma and the patterns that it creates. We're so good at that. We're like pattern ninjas. I know. It makes. It makes us really great practitioners working with people. I can often see the pattern before. It's just like laid out in the neuro of it. Totally. So there are all these unique perspectives and strengths. But here's the thing too, that people need to remember. It does come at a cost for health and

well being for the individuals. Because living as a neurodivergent individual in a world that's designed for these neurotypical norms is actually kind of inherently traumatic. Right? If you're feeling constantly out of sync with those around you from early childhood, maybe you face misunderstanding or social exclusion or bullying. And these experiences lead to that profound sense of isolation.

They lead to social anxiety. They create an environment of hyper vigilance where our nervous system is constantly on alert. And we define often in here that trauma is when the nervous system is overwhelmed beyond the capacity to cope and positively

adapt. And so if you have differences in sensory processing, where these things are more for your nervous system, so that you are constantly being overwhelmed beyond the capacity to cope, that's like that small t environmental trauma that is constantly shaping the nervous system with too much overwhelm. And so the trauma doesn't stop with social

interactions. It's the whole educational system, workplaces, environmental conditions, the constant stimulus of screens and artificial light and noise, and this relentless pressure to conform that erodes our self esteem, our mental health, leads to chronic stress. And we know that our brains and our nervous systems

are deeply impacted by chronic stress and trauma. And so when a neurodivergent individual is constantly placed in environments that don't support their needs, then it leads to that overwhelming stress

load. And so it's just really important to start to understand that and start to distinguish what are my gifts and where are the places where I'm being overwhelmed, where I need boundaries, where I need to work with my nervous system to enhance my regulation skills and rehab my sensory deficits so that I can lean into all those gifts, but not sacrifice my own health and well being. Where are the places that I hide? When are the times that I don't use

my voice? When does my body say no? When I say yes, you know? And, like, what we're talking a lot right now is, like, I'm kind of getting into masking, you know, and it's. It's this reference to a conscious or unconscious suppression and camouflaging of one's natural behaviors and traits to conform to social expectations or norms. And it's often seen in individuals who experience autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, or any of the complex trauma neurodivergences. And it can involve

masking. Can involve a range of strategies, including mimicking the behaviors of neurotypical people, hiding sensory sensitivities, suppressing stimming behaviors. Those movements or sounds that are used for self regulation. They can be, one of the strategies could be copying the social behaviors, speech patterns, body language of, I want to say neurotypical individuals, but even non neurotypical individuals. Think about your primaries, who had complex trauma, like, who are

we wiring to? Like, who are we being modeled by? Even from any of the stimulus that we take in from the tv, the news, the world around us. And so, a lot of times, it involves trying to fit in, not drawing attention to yourself. A lot of this one hits for me so much, practicing, rehearsing social interactions to appear more typical. And that, of course, came with also kind of a lot of alcohol to try to try to stand in that place back in

the day. A lot of hiding, downplaying difficulties with sensory processing, difficulties in attention, in executive functioning, and really suppressing the natural responses, like things that would make us safe in a social situation. Like, you might want to avoid eye contact, or you hide yourself in a way that you don't want to talk about your special interests. Or you may go through a lot

of repetitive movements that you really. When you suppress and you hide who you are, when you hide those true emotions and reactions to avoid social repercussions, to avoid negative judgments or any criticism, like, you're really shutting your light down. And the more that you dim your light, that becomes a well wired pathway, just like any of our protective responses and pathways. And

that is dangerous. I mean, we talked about this briefly in the episode with Matt about anxiety and the huge stress load that masking puts on someone. But it is mentally and emotionally exhausting to be constantly monitoring and adjusting your behavior, trying to move in certain ways, talk in certain ways, dress in certain ways, appear like clean and organized and in these ways that you're

expected to. And so, of, of course, it leads to increased anxiety, stress, burnout, fatigue, because every situation is taking more out of me when I'm doing all this work to present differently from my true self expression or to cover up my perceived flaws. And then that can lead to those deep core beliefs, too, about yourself, about your identity, right? It becomes this well worn pathway. The masking does that creates a disconnect between our true self

and the person that we present. So I start to believe, like, I'm not, that I'm not capable of that because I'm always working so hard to present. And that leads to confusion and, of course, lowers our self esteem, leading to that feeling of being misunderstood or unseen because I'm not

seen, I'm not allowing myself to be seen. And then in terms of getting help, too, that can keep us from getting diagnosis or finding the resources that we need because we're working so hard to cover up the stuff, just like we might work to cover up our outputs of complex trauma as well, because we feel stigma and shame around that. And so then you get higher rates of mental

health decline because of all of that stress. And, you know, we talk about this level of stress and this load on the body, and it leads to health implications. And let's talk about a little bit more about, like, why we want to work with our nervous systems to keep our gifts but not sacrifice our well

being. So some of the specific outputs that you might see that could lead you to think about, are there some sensory processing issues, are there some neurodivergent traits underneath here could obviously be anxiety disorders or depression, but also just experiences of sensory overload, that heightened sensitivity to

different stimuli, like light, sound, texture. And if you have a big response to a lot of that, or you notice that you're maybe in a more dysregulated state with a lot of that sensory stuff, or you have more emotional reactivity, or there's certain ways that your behavior changes with those. That's something to think about in terms of your sensory processing. And then there's a huge overlap, too, for insomnia and the ability to rest and sleep.

So there's many, many people that have different forms of neurodivergence identify with having issues with insomnia, difficulties with either falling asleep or staying asleep, and irregular sleep patterns. And so this, of course, then compounds the stress and overall health issues. But these might be some things to look at and think about. Neurodivergent underpinnings

if these are common experiences. For you, and I think one of the most common outputs as far as, like, a physical dysfunction in the body, it often lands in the gut because as we're moving through these heightened states of activation, whether that's fight or flight or freeze or fawn or flop, if we're shutting down or not, like that stops the digestion really, in our bodies. And so irritable bowel syndrome often expresses leaky gut is another one.

Constipation, diarrhea, because stress and anxiety, they are contributing to gastrointestinal issues. And it's way more common among neurodivergent individuals and folks with cpts. And often there's food sensitivities. These heightened sensitivities could be to certain foods, leading to dietary restrictions and nutritional concerns. And then we have, like, our immune system dysregulation,

like we're talking about. Like, there's real health implications. That inflammation that comes from in a place, from our immune system and that prolonged stress, it weakens the immune system, making neurodivergent individuals more susceptible to illnesses, enter autoimmune and breast cancer. Yeah. And there's so many different avenues of this we could explore. There's also like, hypermobility and Ehlers Danlos with autism that is coupled more. And so it's a

really interesting exploration. And this is just our big high level overview. And I always want to leave people with, I don't want you to be overwhelmed with hearing all of this and learning it and hearing about these health outcomes. Because the truth is, we've all already been living in this anyways, right? We're just

understanding it at a deeper level. Understanding the interconnectedness of mental, emotional and physical health and always coming back to this idea that the more we know about our operating system, the better care we can take of it, right? If I know that I'm overwhelmed by sensory stimulus, I can start to make changes in my environment, I can make changes in my relationships and my social activities to improve nervous system health.

I can start to work with my nervous system to rehabilitate my sensory systems. And I can just understanding is empowering because I can find ways to create better health and that we are neuroplastic. Our brain is always adapting and responding. And when we know how to work with it, we can start to train our nervous system intentionally. We can create a more capacity, more ways to process

the stress, to regulate our emotions. And we don't have to always go down the road of these big health outcomes just because we're different. That's right. These tools are really practical ways to start to understand ourselves a little bit more, to start to accept the way that we are and the way we might be different isn't, like, a bad thing, but maybe it's a gift. And, you know, I think my closing thoughts and for this conversation would just be, like, the idea that we talk about, like,

wherever you are right now, you're not stuck. We'll have a conversation around highly sensitive persons at another time. And I'm someone who I used to. If I. When I took that test as the. In a recent. I retook that quiz recently, and, I mean, I diminished my score by, like, half. And it doesn't make me any less sensitive. I have. I haven't lost any of my empathy by training my nervous system daily, but I do know what those boundaries are, be them physical or spiritual,

energetically, when I'm. When I'm with people. And to know who I am, how can that ever be bad? Right? So to understand who you are, you, this listener, who's, who that we're with right now, like, you're unique and your gifts serve the world. And so you deserve to feel safe in your body, understand how your brain and nervous system work. Like, I can't stress. I know it's like beating a dead horse on here, the daily nervous system practice.

But, like, that is really what it's all about. Absolutely. It's so important. And as I think I want to leave people with this idea. As you're listening to this, you may not identify as neurodivergent, but I encourage you to come on this journey with us and listen to these episodes, not just as a practitioners, so that you can better understand the people that you might be serving. But because,

again, all of this is on a spectrum. Right. And if you're here, you have some interest in trauma, which probably means you have some trauma. And so there are ways that your brain and your nervous system has been shaped. And it might be really beneficial to just start to learn more about the different ways that we process sensory information, that our brain integrates information, and start to find places

where you might identify with some of that. And that making some changes in your environment, your lifestyle, working with your nervous system, might lead you to have some really big changes in outputs that you experience. And so whether or not, like, you already know you have some neurodivergent traits or identify that way, like, these are going to be some really interesting episodes and just come

listen and see what unfolds for you. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered medical or psychological advice. We often discuss lived experiences through traumatic events and sensitive topics that deal with complex developmental and systemic trauma that may be unsettling for some listeners. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice.

If you are in the United States and you or someone you know is struggling with their mental health and is in immediate danger, please call 911. For specific services relating to mental health, please see the full disclaimer in the show. Notes.