Scott Marr and MetroLink Tulsa get their kicks on Route 66 with BRT and microtransit

This is Transit Unplugged. I'm Paul Comfort. Good to be with you on another edition of the world's leading transit executive podcast, Transit Unplugged. Today we head to Tulsa, Oklahoma. And we talk with Scott Marr. Scott is the CEO of Tulsa Transit, who after a long career in the private sector has gone into the public sector as CEO of the transit system there, formerly known as Tulsa Transit, and while we were there, it was rebranded as MetroLink.

Thanks for having me on the show. We're really excited.

So, you and I have known of each other, not really well, but known of each other, worked for similar companies over the past 20 years or so, and now you're general manager and CEO of Tulsa Transit, which just today got a new name.

Yeah, our new name is MetroLink Tulsa. It was just approved by our board a few weeks ago. It was just announced today to the SWATA conference. it was great hearing our mayor say our name, but it was important that we refresh our brand, our brand, as we get further away from COVID, as we connect with our youth, our current riders, our future riders, and of course, those choice riders that we're all trying to get.

Yeah, we are here, uh, in Tulsa, not just to visit you, but we're having fun at the Southwest Transit Association with my buddy Rich Sampson. 550 people here from 8 states they represent, and, uh, really some great awards today, and your mayor spoke, and he's very excited. Scott, one of the things that really impressed me about, um, his leadership is, uh, he seems to be very practical, but very pro transit.

Absolutely. And, you know, he's just such a great speaker. I'm glad I didn't have to follow him, I went before him. But he's been a huge advocate for public transportation and continues to do so in his last year as he's not seeking re election, but we are proud to have him as our mayor, and, uh, we will miss him dearly.

Tell us about your system. Give us an overall scope.

Yeah, so we have 65 fixed route buses, 54 paratransit and microtransit vehicles, 24 fixed routes. We have 4 microtransit zones during the day, 6 at night.

More at night because there's less fixed route buses going around or what?

There is, but it replaced an underperforming deviated fixed route service. So to cover the whole city on what those routes were running, we wanted to give our customers better service than what they were getting before. And now the service has doubled the ridership of those routes when they were previously running. So we're excited.

So you started microtransit service to replace some routes that were underperforming, and you got twice as many people riding microtransit than you did on the bus?

That's correct. What kind of vehicles are you using? We're using voyagers. We're using cutaway. Other ways, um, but you know, it's important to have two vehicles in each zone. One that is ADA accessible and one that also has a bike rack for our customers.

Tell us about, um, you mentioned that the mayor announced a new name today and you had a great video, by the way, which we'll show some clips of because concurrent with this audio podcast, we're here filming a television show for Transit Unplugged TV on YouTube. So if you like what Scott and I are talking about, make sure you take a look at our video show, Transit Unplugged TV on YouTube and see it yourself.

That's correct. So, you know, I just really thought two years ago when I took over this position, it was time to refresh our brand. We've been Tulsa Transit since 1980. Same look, same design. It was time to refresh our brand. So, Metrolink Tulsa, a royal blue, a yellow, similar to DART. DART is our sister company, but we're not exactly like DART. Link Assist for our paratransit, and of course, Microlink for our microtransit. It was time to change, and our team is excited to embrace this change.

Yeah, it's awesome. Well, they have what your microtransit, it sounds like. And you told me, uh, before that you're thinking about merging micro with para?

That's correct. We want to start co mingling. When you start co mingling, we realize in paratransit, we have a lot of cancellations and no shows throughout the day. Right. That leave gaps in routes. Why not? Use those gaps to fill microtransit trips. It'll reduce the cost. And we know paratransit is the most expensive service that we have. So if we increase our ridership or our productivity, microtransit is currently running 3. 75 to 4. 25 trips per hour, trips per hour, passengers.

Absolutely. That's an amazing thing. And I know the places like Seattle and other cities are looking at doing just that because during the pandemic, microtransit was the hottest new trend. Uh, and now that the funds are running out, the COVID relief funds from Washington, people are looking at ways to maybe conserve on costs. if you can figure out a way to do it on a cheaper, cheaper per passenger, but they get individualized service, I mean, that's a win win, isn't it?

It is, and we've had so much success with our microtransit, we're starting to see other organizations come to Tulsa to see how we're doing it. Really? So we're glad to be partners with those other organizations. So we can help them reduce their costs like we reduce ours.

That's great. Tulsa is a great town. I mean, I've never been here before this visit. Uh, like I said, the only thing I really knew about it was the praying hands at ORU, but, uh, there's so many cool things here. Tell us some about how big Tulsa is and what, what, what some of the features are of this place.

Yeah, so there's 400, 000 people, 187 square miles. A lot of people don't realize Route 66 was born in Tulsa. Wow. It was actually born in Tulsa. And now we have a BRT that we're building up for the 100 year anniversary in 2026. We're building a BRT on Route 66 20 minute frequency. It'll go from east to west, west to east, and we're excited because we think it'll have just as much success as our current BRT . Paul Comfort: Yeah, tell us, we just got off the BRT line.

And so the new, so Route 66, or Route 66, I guess is how people normally say it, uh, is really what they call America's Main Street. And it's a, it's a central feature of a lot of part of the central part of America. Uh, it's, uh, it goes across like from Chicago all the way across the country to the West Coast. And, uh, it's, this is like the heart of it here, isn't it?

It is. It was born here. You heard our mayor mentioned it earlier this morning. My parents drove it when I was a kid. I probably came through Tulsa. Just don't remember it, but what a great time for the hundred year anniversary in two years that we embrace that anniversary. We put that BRT on that line. And the city of Tulsa is just so excited to celebrate that time.

Yeah, and you've got 45 stations?

45 stops? So 44 stations, 320, 000 each. Okay. A little expensive, but you know Where are you getting the money? FTA. Okay. We hope to get it from the FTA. We currently have a funding gap, a 15 million funding gap, but that's nobody's fault. Other than inflation and the rising costs.

Yes, things are so expensive now, aren't they? Even, but I've got to tell you, last night at the hotel, four of us had a meal and a drink, and it was, uh, 80. I could not believe it. I was like, oh, is that cheap? This is,

yeah, that's very cheap. Well, you live in Maryland.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, that would be me going out for a meal. But anyway, yeah, yeah. So it's a little bit the, the cost of living here. Maybe it's a little bit lower, but the cost of those assets I know are still very expensive. So, um, uh, the BRT line is coming. Tell us a little bit more about the town of Tulsa. Let's keep going on, there's so many neat things here. You have an art deco district, and tell us about all the kind of interesting facets here.

Yeah. You know, a lot of people forget that the outsiders movie. was made here in Tulsa. The house still stands. It's a place that people go to and see and check out. a student in Tulsa wrote the Outsiders book that eventually became a movie. It's just amazing that, uh, yeah, it's just, we're so excited about that because so many actors and actresses. That was one of

the first things. That was their start. The Brat Pack got started there. Rob Lowe and

the boys. Yeah, so super exciting. You know, Tulsa's an old oil town, you know, probably, um, fell backwards a little bit in the 80s and 90s, but it's really starting to bow back with our city leaders. You know, we have the Gathering Place off Riverside that is a great family oriented location.

Let's talk about that for one minute. I thought that was so interesting when your mayor was talking to us this morning and said, you know, basically in America, because of digitalization, we almost have a pandemic of loneliness. I mean, I've read about that. They've actually called it that. Uh, people don't connect anymore. So you all went out and raised money from the private sector, billions of dollars, and built what's called the Gathering Place.

Gathering Place is an amazing place to take your kids. You can just go out there and walk. You can play basketball. They have basketball courts, tennis courts.

He said it's like Disneyland had a baby.

So it's hilarious when they say that. But yeah, it's, it's an amazing, we do dump the pump there. We did dump the pump, National Dump the Pump Day in June. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Where we encourage, we encourage people to dump the pump. Park your cars and ride public transportation. We do free fares on that day. We've, that's been another huge success.

That's great. The, uh, the BRT lines, one more thing about them I wanted to mention was the public support for them. Tell us about the referendums you had here and what kind of support you had because they had to go to the voters.

Yeah, so 2016 the Vision Tax, um, was, was approved two thirds, two to one, um, for the approval of that. Our public here in Tulsa, they have really embraced public transportation. and voted yes on measures to help us fund that. Yes, we do currently have a funding gap, but again, that's due to rising costs and supply chain issues. So, um, our mayor's been amazing working with this team at MetroLink Tulsa. MetroLink Tulsa. To help us work through some of that.

We're driving around town right now. Um, and, uh, neither you or I are driving. I was just going to mention that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're in the backseat talking, I wanted to talk about fueling. So, uh, you know, we've been on our show. We've done a lot of discussion lately on various types of new fuels that are lower, lower sulfur, lower emission. So traditionally, American Transit worked on diesel, diesel buses. And then we went to something called clean diesel.

Yeah, out of our 119 vehicles, 84 of them are CNG. We have four electric and we have four diesel. The rest are unleaded gas and most of those are the paratransit. We have no big buses that are our regular gas. CNG buses is where we live on. On top of CNG, long, we were talking about it earlier, Paul, where there's enough CNG to outlast our lifetime, our kids lifetime, and their kids lifetime.

We're driving right through it right now, I think. We're right by the, uh, the train lines with all the cars over there, and it looks like the refineries are over there.

We have good news, though. We have four diesel buses that'll be retired in June when we get our new, our seven new CNG buses from Gilloog.

They're gonna be electric, right? Gilloog's

are electric, or the CNG? So we got CNG coming this year, and then we have electric, seven electric coming next year.

All right, So you, the CNG works for you.

Yeah, we love CNG. My director of maintenance is pro CNG. We know that there's been cases out there that CNG is even cleaner than electric. Really? So we're excited with the CNG. You know, we live on top of it here in the state of Oklahoma. Yeah. Um, so yeah, we want to continue to use CNG.

Last question for this segment would be, um, so congratulations. Thank you. Uh, you just finished your second year almost to the day today. Yes. And you announced your new name of the service today with the mayor by your side. Awesome. And you just got a big contract renewal. You're like a coach, you know, on the football team. Tell us about that.

Yeah. So the board just approved on Thursday. I got a new eight year contract, four year base with two, two year extensions. So that'll keep me here for another eight years. But Paul, it's not about this contract. It's about the next one after that to get me to the retirement age. But, um, I'm excited. I'm excited to know that, you know, I've been here two years and I've got another eight years here to work with this amazing team. Yeah, thank you.

And so, what's your vision? I'm sure you had to sell them your vision. What's your vision for the system?

Yeah, so, my vision, and it's not, and I like to tell my team, this is not Scott Mar Transit. This is all of us putting our heads together to figure out what's best for our customers. We want to build a box. We want to build a box of core fixed route service and use microtransit to feed that box. Now microtransit has been a huge hit here and I don't think we have even touched what microtransit is going to be in the future. Wow.

And then expand the BRT, right?

Expand the BRT in two years after we get that funding and then co mingling, having those paratransit trips switched to

That's a great vision. I think you're going to succeed, my friend. I

hope so.

Scott, uh, so you've been here two years. What did you do prior to this job?

Yeah, so going all the way back 28 years ago in 1996, I was a fixed route bus driver. It was the first time I ever got my CDL license. I drove for about six months, but they loved the fact that I was prior military, so I moved up really quickly as a road supervisor. Did that for about 10 or 12 years, and then I got hired by MV Transportation, the private contractor, as a project manager in Lawrence, Kansas.

So that's when I think I remember you. Uh, was there. And weren't you kind of like a fix it guy for us?

I was! You know, I was single at the time, I had a car, four boxes, easy for me to move around. So whenever there was an opportunity, I'd always knock at the door and say, Hey, I'm available. Well, I had some success in the first, uh, two locations I went to that I fixed. So I continue to move around a lot. I think in about 15 years, I moved around 13 times.

Wow. So about a year at a spot. A year and a half. And what would you do? Go in and be a general manager, an ops manager?

No, I was, I was actually the general manager, but I'd go in there and I would identify what wasn't working. And usually, you know, all of us that have been in the business like yourself, um, those things stand out like a sore thumb. Yeah, that's right. So fixing those It doesn't take long, does doesn't take long, but, so fixing that and guiding them.

you worked for MV for a number of years, moving around the country as a general manager, kind of, uh, Fixing up the operations. Fixing up the finance. Fixing up administrative. Fixing up, I'm sure, all kinds of stuff, right? there's one big problem that you see in transit agencies across America now that, that you've got a solution for.

You know, it's easy to talk about safety because that's what really drives the bottom line. Okay, but usually it's poor management. It's really about the managers that have been around this business that come in at 10 a. m. and leave at 3. Well, how can you expect your employees to respect you? Um, you really got to dig in. You need to be here during pullout. You need to be here when they get back.

and then I had you end up here. So you did that for a while, and then what happened?

Yeah, so still on the private side, I was working in Brooklyn, New York, driving two to four hours each way, because I lived in New Jersey, and I got a phone call from Tulsa Transit saying, hey, would you like to come back and work for First Transit? And it wasn't right away that I thought, eh, you know, I'd already been here twice. But it was that last four hour drive home where I said, you know what, let's go back to Tulsa where my wife is from.

Yeah, and so the game plan for you, as we talked about when we were riding on your BRT, Uh, kind of spell it out one more time. What's your vision for the next four years?

Yeah, so we're working on a, a raise grant that's due later this month to fill in the funding gap that we currently have on Route 66 where we'll have nine CNG buses on there. It doesn't really work for the, for the electric buses on there. It's just too long of a route. But, uh, in the next four years we hope to have that accomplished. A hundred year anniversary for Route 66 is in two years. It's possible we can have that ready by then.

That's great. So you'll have a BRT line with 44 stations along there, your second BRT line, and then your microtransit.

Microtransit just continues to, uh, meet, expect, exceed expectations and continue to grow. And I, I see that with you today, we have four daytime routes or zones, I should say. We'll probably have 10 in the next couple of years. It continues to grow and the ridership is just blowing up. It's a good problem to have, is what I tell my team.

There you go. Well, Scott, I'm very impressed with your operation, with your leadership, with the team you've assembled here. I think you are primed and ready to go.

Appreciate you, Paul.

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the Transit Unplugged podcast. Thank you for listening to today's episode with our special guest Scott Marr now, as Paul said in the opening next week, we stay in Tulsa with the director of planning, Chase Phillips, showing Paul around their iconic downtown and its amazing art deco architecture.